# Quetionable breeder



## Iflip4fun (Dec 23, 2012)

So I found a breeder near by (ish) that I really liked! But now she doesn't have any hedgies available. She has a few litters due mid September (which puts pick up in late October). I'm not sure I want to wait that long. 

In the mean time I found someone on Craigslist, they are actually closer and have a bunch of little hedgies available now. The desricption says they just moved here which is why they don't have a website yet. However in the background of one of the pictures, they have a wire wheel. And their description says nothing about being USDA certified. 

So, I need your opinions, is this person worth a chance? Should I contact them and ask questions? Or would it be better to wait until the breeder I really like has some available?

P.s. The "questionable" breeder I found does say they are experienced and their hedgies are used to kids and stuff.


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## LunarLanding (Aug 7, 2013)

Personally, I would call and ask tons of questions. If the breeder seems okay, I'd take a trip out there to see the conditions the hedgies are living in and see how you feel about the situation.


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## Iflip4fun (Dec 23, 2012)

LunarLanding said:


> Personally, I would call and ask tons of questions. If the breeder seems okay, I'd take a trip out there to see the conditions the hedgies are living in and see how you feel about the situation.


Thanks! That's a great idea I don't know why I couldn't figure something like that out! Do you have any ideas on what I should ask?


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## Tom (Jul 21, 2013)

Well that's two reddish flags: (Also, not being USDA certified isn't one. There are plenty of good breeders that aren't USDA certified, and plenty of bad breeders that are)

A breeder not having a website is fine- but saying they don't have one because they just moved is pretty much bull. If they bred somewhere else all they would have to do is change the location on the website- so this makes me think they aren't legit or just started breeding. 

Any reputable hedgehog breeder knows to not use a wire wheel. (And any "smart" scam/backyard breeder knows not to put a wire wheel out)

A lot of breeders have a waiting list and won't have a "bunch" if any available right away- unless they're a pretty big breeder (which usually they'd have a website if they're breeding so many hedgehogs.) 

I'd steer clear and wait until late October or find a better breeder. You don't want to sacrifice health/quality/temperament for the sake of time. If you want you can ask questions for the craigslist breeder, but I'd just pass.


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## Iflip4fun (Dec 23, 2012)

The description said they were having wifi problems which is why they didn't have a website. Also they had 3 litters of 6 (which I called "a bunch") thanks for your thoughts Tom! 
I know October isn't that far away but I'm really excited to get one so to me it seems like forever


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## nikki (Aug 28, 2008)

I would also ask if they give a lifetime guarentee against WHS and if they have pedigree's showing the babies lineage. Reputable breeders have these things. Find out where the parents come from, are they from reputable breeders or petstores?


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

I would wait for the other breeder. As Tom already mentioned, not having a website because they just moved is BS. If they have more than 3 females and are not USDA then that is a big red flag.

A big red flag for me is advertising on Craigslist. Reputable breeders will not advertise on Craigslist. 

You'll find most reputable breeders have waiting lists and waiting gives you the chance to be fully researched and prepared for your new baby. :smile:


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## Annie&Tibbers (Apr 16, 2013)

If they have 3 litters of 6 hoglets each, all at the same time, they are either doing this full-time (and should have a website -- wifi problems mean you personally can't get online, not that your website-server is down), or they are really, really efficient to give each of those little hoglets time, attention, and care each night. Or, they aren't giving the hoglets time, which means that they aren't getting handled, which for me is enough to not want to support their breeding.

When you go visit, don't just think about if they will be giving you a happy, healthy hedgehog that is not likely to have long-term temperament or health issues (like WHS). Also decide if the conditions they are keeping their hedgehogs in, and the way they treat their breeding hogs, are conditions you are willing to support with your purchase.

If they can't track their hedgehog pedigrees, remember that registering with the IRH is free so money really isn't an excuse.


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## Moody (Mar 5, 2013)

Updating a static website with location information is simple to do with a 1 line command unless they put it all in images (which is a bad idea). If it's database driven (like wordpress, prestashop, magento, etc) then it's usually a few changes in the options or a couple of database queries. 

Wifi issues have nothing to do with maintaining a site, nor does moving. 

Honestly, the fishy excuse would be one strike. The wire wheel is two. I'd check them out and see about a third but that sort of thing already leaves a bad impression and I'd be more inclined to wait for the other breeder.


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## Iflip4fun (Dec 23, 2012)

I contacted them and asked a few questions.
They do have pedigrees.
They only buy from USDA breeders and don't trust pet stores due to high prices and bad living situations. 
Also they said none of their hedgehogs have WHS. 
That makes me feel a little better, but I'm still not sure because I have never actually owned a hedgehog.

So based on those answers, what do you guys think? 
Any other questions you think I should ask?

p.s. Thank you all so much for your help. I really appreciate all of you with better experience and knowledge [than me] helping me out!


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

> Also they said none of their hedgehogs have WHS.


Just because they don't have it, doesn't mean they aren't producing hedgehogs with it. Also, there have been breeders in the past who have said they never had it but that was because they rehomed their adults before the average age of developing it.



> They only buy from USDA breeders


As mentioned before, being USDA or buying from USDA breeders means NOTHING. Every breeder, mill, pet store, or wholesaler with more than 3 breeding females has to be USDA. Being USDA doesn't mean they are good, just that they are licensed.


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## ZeeMartin (Aug 5, 2013)

Moody said:


> Updating a static website with location information is simple to do with a 1 line command unless they put it all in images (which is a bad idea). If it's database driven (like wordpress, prestashop, magento, etc) then it's usually a few changes in the options or a couple of database queries.
> 
> Wifi issues have nothing to do with maintaining a site, nor does moving.
> 
> Honestly, the fishy excuse would be one strike. The wire wheel is two. I'd check them out and see about a third but that sort of thing already leaves a bad impression and I'd be more inclined to wait for the other breeder.


some folks don't have the skills, or the temperament, to do website stuff. I have friends who are *awesome* at what they do, some who are known world-wide (not kidding) and are basically techno-phobic. 
sure, having a website is one mark of professionalism. but cheeseballs can have one too, and might spin just as good a story on it. 
having a website lets me learn about them (or at least what they've chosen to present), but I wouldn't consider not having one a strike.

maybe it's living in a small town in the midwest. a great many of the folks I do business with, and am thrilled with, don't have websites. in fact, probably most of them are web-less.


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## Tom (Jul 21, 2013)

Having a website isn't huge red flagging. It's the lying and making up reasons is the red flag. Now days you can have a website very easily, just about as easy as editing your profile on Facebook

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

Tom said:


> Having a website isn't huge red flagging. It's the lying and making up reasons is the red flag. Now days you can have a website very easily, just about as easy as editing your profile on Facebook
> [/QUOTE]
> 
> I agree. They would have come across better by saying they didn't have a website than to say they didn't have one because they'd moved.
> ...


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## nikki (Aug 28, 2008)

Just because none of their hedgehogs have WHS doesn't mean its not in their lineage. Reputable breeders usually give a lifetime guarentee against WHS because it can skip many generations then show up again. I would ask to see the lineage of the babies and check with someone that knows the lines that are known to carry WHS to make sure there isn't any. Nancy could probably help with that.


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## whatisamegan (Aug 13, 2013)

You should ask about lifetime warrantying against WHS or other genetic diseases. I know my breeder does this warranty while the other two breeders in my state did not. My breeder also would post on craigslist once in a while, but usually only went on to see if some of his hedgies were being put up on there (which happened a few times).


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## Tom (Jul 21, 2013)

I still say skip the craiglist breeder- Don't even bother asking the questions to him/her. There are plenty of people on this forum that could help you find a breeder/hedgehog (maybe before October- but that's really not that long of a wait)


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## ZeeMartin (Aug 5, 2013)

Tom said:


> <not> Having a website isn't huge red flagging. It's the lying and making up reasons is the red flag. Now days you can have a website very easily, just about as easy as editing your profile on Facebook


lying... that's a strong word. might just be too embarassed to admit they don't know how or don't have time. hard to know what motivates folks from a phone call or a craigslist ad. 
and in my experience <easy> isn't an antidote to <phobic>.

It's far too third-hand for me to have an opinion on the breeder in question. just sayin'

it's not a big deal, and it's a sidetrack on the thread, so I'm out.


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