# Trashed cage and chewed puppy pad! Should I be worried?



## Yukidama's mama (Apr 4, 2017)

So I woke up this morning to what looked like there had been an earthquake in my hedgie's cage (liner pulled completely out from under water bowl and fleece all ripperly!). He'd also scratched/bit away at the puppy pad I have under the fleece liner and made holes in it, with some of the inner material (looked like clumpy cotton wool fabric, a bit dusty) revealed on the pad that he must have come in contact with.

My questions are, do puppy pad inner fabric contain any dangerous substance if consumed? (I buy non scented ones). I checked him over and he didn't appear to have any near his mouth (I didn't check inside though) and he seemed to be alert even though I woke him up. Is he doing this because he is bored/frustrated? It happened around 3.30am, I woke up to use the bathroom and so put new ice packs on his cage as the temp was 27 degrees and by the morning it can go up to 29 degrees (the early morning before he was laying on his side at 28 degrees so I didn't want him to over heat). But I'm thinking he seems to do this liner dive when he's too cold, as I heard him start to do it when I went back to bed. Normally he just does the corner of the cage to sleep on the puppy pad/plastic cage floor but he went full out this time to trash it and tear up the puppy pad too ><
I'm not sure if I should just stop using the puppy pads if he liner dives, what do other people do? Advice much appreciated! Thank you ♡

In the meantime I'll keep a look out for any more change in behaviour and make sure he poops ok this evening (he generally sleeps all day and doesn't come out until I wake him up in the late evening).


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## Lopi (Apr 11, 2017)

Those temperatures are much too high me thinks. The heat could be affecting his behavior. While they are from Africa, they come out at night when it's much cooler. As I'm sure you know the ideal temperature is between 72-80. Or 23ish to 25ish celcius. 

At the moment your hog is experiencing temperature fluctuations of 80.4 to over 84 degrees. Your lower temp is already on the high side.

It may be time to invest in a portable air conditioner, if you don't have air conditioning already. 

I'm not sure if the heat is frustrating your hedgeface, but it's something that needs dealing with. Also are you sure he chewed the puppy pad? Or did he dive under it and spike the living daylight out of it?

If I accidentally startle my hog while she's under the pad it gets eliminated by her spikes. Just a thought.


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## Yukidama's mama (Apr 4, 2017)

thanks for the reply Lopi! Ah ok, I thought in Celsius 28 degrees is the top temperature they can handle (but as you say 23-25 being ideal temp range) and it's more lower temperatures (below 23 degrees) that can cause serious problems?

I do have an air con unit in the room but it's not on during the night as it makes the room so cold when left on constantly ><. For a couple weeks I tried programming it to turn on automatically during the early morning (set at 27 degrees) and its makes the room go below 24.5 degrees and I was worried this sudden change in temp is worse no? Plus he seems to line dive when it's around 24.5 since I think he has gotten used to the warmer summer temps here, but I could be wrong.

I'm not totally sure he chewed it but he definitely scratched away at the pad (I saw ball clumps so looks like he's done something with the inner fabric!), as I hear and see him do it multiple times before. He does it to his fleece too, it's like he's frustrated and tries to burrow through the fabrics. I've seen him bite the fleece fabric too as in too pull it but maybe not eat it as such. I swear he's more like a rat lol. Used to climb his cage too before I received his wheel ><

Should I get rid of the puppy pads to be on the safe side in the future?


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## Draenog (Feb 27, 2012)

Those temps are perfectly fine, in their native environment the average temperature is around and usually a bit above 25C. It can go as high as nearly 40C. Most hogs don't have issues with temperatures below 35C. All mine are kept between 25C-30C.
This behaviour also doesn't sound like it's heat related either - more like he wants to display natural burrowing behaviour. Puppy pads and fleece do not support this behaviour which is why many hogs liner dive or destroy their pads (by trying to dig into them). Switching to loose bedding or giving him more opportunity to dig will probably help.


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## Yukidama's mama (Apr 4, 2017)

Ok thanks Draenog! That's a relief to hear and thought I had read before about them being able to cope with higher temps and its the lower temps that are dangerous ~ with it getting to mid 30s here in Japan now, I'd struggle to keep him at a constant 24 degrees! Maybe he just got annoyed at me for briefly disturbing him and retaliated! 

This was my initial thought before, as many times before he'd scratch away at his fleece bedding to the point it would get caught in his nails! I'm surprised no one else seems to have this problem with using fleece? It's not used here in Japan from what I've seen. I feel a bit bad using it, as assume it was because he wanted to burrow, which would be understandable. I provided more loose fleece strips and even small fleece square blankets and that seemed to help for a while but this is the worst I've seen him do and destroying the puppy pad makes me more worried as I don't know what's contained in them.

The only thing that put me off loose bedding was hearing of males getting bits stuck to 'themselves'. Is there a particular type of bedding you would recommend to avoid/lessen the chance of this happening? Maybe I can provide one area in his cage with loose bedding to satisfy his burrowing needs or switch completely if it means he'll be more content


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## Draenog (Feb 27, 2012)

Actually it's a very common "problem" and there are tons of threads on liner diving on this forum alone. Fleece is one of the best bedding types for the owner but one of the worst for hedgehogs, because it completely deprives them of most of their natural needs (unless those are met by giving them enough digging opportunities and a proper nest to dig into, but unfortunately that's often not the case).
There are people who do 50/50 with fleece and loose bedding, I'm not sure what you can get in Japan but I have good experiences with Finacard (too big to get stuck) and Back 2 Nature. They're both cardboard/paper bedding.


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## Lopi (Apr 11, 2017)

Those temperatures are certainly not fine. Maybe your hogs are ok with being a bit warmer, but there's a reason the temperature range I listed is solid practice.

Yes in Central and East African countries do see very hot temperatures as you stated, but during the day when the hog has burrowed and hidden somewhere. Where it is obviously much cooler.

The temperature range at night time when they are out is actually much much closer to the range we suggest here at all times.

This is easily and scientifically confirmed by looking into Central and East African countries and their weather patterns.

Also the temperature range fluctuations you are describing are also not fine in general for most hogs.

And on top of all of that, if the hog is very hot and wants to splat to cool off, it may have tried to get access to the bottom part of the cage to cool off and had to get past the liner and the pad to get there. This is called splatting.

Please do not dismiss entire posts, and provide information that is not 100% accurate. It may work for you, but there's a reason every other member on here tries to keep their hog between 72 and 80.


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## Draenog (Feb 27, 2012)

Yes they are fine. There are entire countries which keep their hogs at those temperatures without issues. I am not just talking about my own experience.
I suggest you might want to look a bit more into the temperatures of their native habitat. During the night, temps do not always drop much depending on the time of the year. Obviously it's not scalding hot at night, but 29C really isn't very warm and doesn't bother the majority of hedgehogs.

The temperature range listed is mostly important when it comes to the lowest recommended temp. Overall, the recommended temperature range is actually a bit on the low side if you compare it to their native habitat.


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## Lopi (Apr 11, 2017)

I have looked into it and you are providing bad information to win an argument. I can post year round weather report averages for their native countries, and also the nature of the heat itself which is overlooked but important. IE: humidity, amount of sunlight etc. 

That is why the temperature range that's suggested is what it is, and you are absolutely wrong to say 72-80 is for minimum temperature. There's a reason there's a dash between the two numbers. 

29 degrees c might be tolerable if it's the right type of heat, unaffected by humidity or not adversely so.

Also seasons differ from region to region, which affects when it's hot and when it's cooler. Again why the 72-80 exists. Not numbers that this forum invented, either, given nearly every guide to taking care of a hedgehog uses this range. It's because it's based on science and years of experience in hedgehog care. And you're telling me to look it up, lol. 

I hope this issue gets resolved for you OP, but before I get angry I'm going to remove myself from the thread. Beware of what you hear. Good luck!


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## Draenog (Feb 27, 2012)

Look, I appreciate your effort, but these hedgehogs and recreating their native environment is a hobby (to put it lightly) of me which I have been researching for years. I am not providing bad information to win an argument. 

I did not say 72-80 is for minimum temperature. I said this is the recommended range (in the US at least) of which the lowest temperature is the most important, as low temperatures can easily be dangerous; high temperatures aren't good either, but most hedgehogs don't overheat as fast as they get cold and can handle higher temperatures much better than low ones, because that's what this species is used to.

I was like you when I first started keeping hedgehogs, inclined to believe everything on this website and other US sites was the absolute truth. Once you gain both experience from your own animals and knowledge from various communities around the world you learn things aren't that rigid (and often outdated), and vary from community to community.
US guides will indeed give you that range (they are not based on science. They are based on what seemed to work well over the years for most people, and everyone with experience will tell you the higher end of the recommended temperature range isn't as strict as the lower end). UK guides will tell you this too, since they copied it from the US. But then there are other countries which naturally have higher temperatures and don't bother to cool as long as it's under 35C; then there are the ones that recommend higher temperatures during the day and a drop in temp (sometimes as big as a 5 degree drop) during the night; and so on. My experience AND knowledge (and that of others) has shown 29C is, for the majority of hedgehogs, perfectly fine. 
On top of that, it seems OP already feels this is likely not a temperature issue for their hog as they said their initial thought was behaviour-related.


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## Mjskates (May 14, 2017)

Can you please send a link to where you got your information?


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## Draenog (Feb 27, 2012)

Mjskates said:


> Can you please send a link to where you got your information?


Was this directed towards me? My current knowledge comes from research and information from various hedgehogs communities around the world (mainly North-American and European), and unless you speak multiple languages you probably won't be able to read most information outside of the US/UK. There are several Facebook groups from various countries where people come together to discuss hedgehog care, and most countries have their own caresheets, where husbandry practices vary wildly. One of the most distinct differences when it comes to housing (and care) is between the US and Germany.


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## nikki (Aug 28, 2008)

Dreanog is very knowledgeable about hedgehogs and is correct in the information she has given. She has owned and researched hedgehogs for many years.


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## Mjskates (May 14, 2017)

I was just curious. I wasn't questioning her knowledge


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## Yukidama's mama (Apr 4, 2017)

Thank you all for the responses and knowledgeable advice and I'm sorry my post caused disagreements between users. I'm a new hedgie owner and this is my first so I take on board advice given, especially from those with years of experience and do try to do my own research/reading too. Of course I will monitor how my own hog seems to react to the heat but being in a high climate country I think he has slowly adapted to the summer temperatures here, I just hope he gets used to the colder months again come winter since Japan has 4 seasons here and winter can get pretty cold (I already have a heat set up so don't worry!).

But back to the main topic at hand, last night I was woken up by a real earthquake this tme(!), I checked on Yuki and he was fine, still wheeling a way and probably hadn't noticed! I changed over his ice packs again, and this time he was fine, no line diving so maybe he just got a but frustrated the night before. It was earlier this time about 2am.

@Draenog, thanks for the loose bedding recommendations, I'll look into them and see if I can order some in. I think liner diving is one thread search I haven't looked into yet then! 

I do have a new concern now, I'm not sure if it would be related to his behaviour but I'll start a new thread and ask for your guys opinions please (his eye is looking a bit puffy and now a little crusty the last couple of nights).


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## Draenog (Feb 27, 2012)

In my country we don't have very hot summers but the last years it is getting warmer in summer. This means our houses don't have AC like they do in warmer countries. In summer my enclosures are usually around 28C (highest is 30/31C), in winter I keep them at 26C. Not sure how cold it gets in Japan but ceramic heat emitters and a cage that's not too open work well in colder climates.

I hope the earthquake wasn't too bad, that's scary!



Mjskates said:


> I was just curious. I wasn't questioning her knowledge


Don't worry it's always fine to ask


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## Yukidama's mama (Apr 4, 2017)

Ah that's the same as where I'm originally from in the UK (no AC in homes, especially don't need it in England with the amount of rain they get!) but I've been living in Japan for 3 years now, and AC is a must to survive summer and the high humidity here! I don't like having it constantly on though so the room (his cage temp) is generally around 27-28C. 

Winters here are similar to England, can reach 0C but generally low 10Cs. I have a plastic bottom with wire top cage, back in March when we brought him home we were using fleece blankets to cover part of the cage to keep the heat in with the use of a red heat lamp (it's the only thing I can seem to get here unfortunately). But maybe we will change to a viv for the colder months (I was worried in summer with the high humidity the air wouldn't ciruculate well but this is what I see most people in Japan use for their hedgies so maybe its fine here).

There was actually two Earthquakes a few hours apart, one was a magnitude of 5(!) it hit another area close to Tokyo but still felt strong and always shakes you up, especially when you're a light sleeper, the room and building shakes! ><. They happen quite a lot here but we haven't had one in months. My partner didn't even realise 

I've just got home from work so I'm making a post about his eye soon! Please give me your opinion if you have time and thanks again for all the advice


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## Draenog (Feb 27, 2012)

Yes the UK is similar, although it's a bit less warm in summer (esp. once you go further north). And I feel you, I live in the most humid city of Europe... (a lot more humid than Tokyo, but fortunately still less warm in summer - your average highest humidity level is our lowest). I have vivs too, but they aren't humid at all; the heat lamps and the daylight lamp dry them out making it more easy to create proper humidity levels similar to those in their native environment. 

Those winter temperatures sound similar to what we have here. That's not that cold, in an open cage it might be more difficult to keep the temps up but you could close it off a bit with plexiglass or coroplast if needed. 
I do recommend buying a CHE though as red light can mess with their schedule. You can buy them online.


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## Yukidama's mama (Apr 4, 2017)

Hey sorry for my late reply! 
Haha yes England barely has a warm summer! >< 
Oh wow, which country in Europe do you live in? The humidity here in Tokyo during the wet season/summer is around 80% but some days, like yesterday it was 97% humidity(!), it's probably the only thing I hate about living here! 

Ah that's great to here that using vivs still works fine ~ I didn't consider about the day and heat lamps helping to reduce the humidity. I'm definitely keen to do a bio viv tank, been doing lots of research about it and maybe for Yuki's first birthday (October) I can splash out on a nice viv tank  ~ I'm finding it a bit difficult finding the correct size though. The biggest size available here so far that I can find online is 90cm x 50cm and I know that is too small. 

Thanks for the winter tips, I'm hoping if I get the viv set up by end of October it will just be in time for the colder months here. Yes, I do really want to use a CHE, the red lamp was so expensive before! We only got the red lamp as it was the only thing they had in the pet store and they were using them, we wanted to get something rather than nothing as it was mid March so only needed to use it for a few weeks or so before it started warming up here. I've seen CHEs online available here but they are imported from America so I was worried they wouldn't work properly since the volt power is different here to America, even with using an adapter, the power output would be lower I think and I'd worry it might cause a fire?! Do you have CHEs that are made/from your country or are they imported from America/UK? It's something else I need to look into before winter arrives! 

Thanks for your help!


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## LandakLover (Aug 16, 2017)

Thank you for all this information. I'm living in a warmer country myself, and I was really worried about it maybe getting too hot, especially in the summer! It sounds like I should be ok, especially since I'll be leaving a fan on and the door open to allow for breezes during the day.


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## Draenog (Feb 27, 2012)

I live in the Netherlands (Amsterdam). This is our average monthly humidity:










(And this is Tokyo's https://weather-and-climate.com/average-monthly-Humidity-perc,Tokyo,Japan)

Now Tokyo is warmer in summer (we're more similar to the (south of the) UK, it rarely gets over 30C here) but as you can see our humidity is a lot higher - all year round. The most commonly used type of housing for hedgehogs here are vivs (glass or wood terrariums). I've never heard of any issues with the humidity; a good viv has at least one but preferably more ventilation strips for air flow. A downside in a warm country could be the way the vivs hold heat in so well, which is great in winter, but on days where it's 30-36C outside I turn off my daylight bulbs or else they heat up the enclosures too much (gotta say mine are pretty strong though I'm looking for different ones)
But humidity wise, I don't think it should be an issue  Unfortunately most housing I've seen in Japan is very small indeed (and esp. for bioactive you definitely need a minimum of 120 x 60 cm)

As for the CHE I'm not sure. The ones I usually buy are from a German company. From what I've found the American (110/120) is the closest to the Japanese (100); so most stuff from the US seems to work.
Edit: I found this: https://www.furniture-rental-tokyo.com/useful_info/electricity1.html

"Voltage in Japan is 100 Volt. Appliances brought from Europe, Australia and other Asian countries where voltage is 220 to 240V are not able to use except for lamps. Some items can be used with step-down transformer from 240V to 100V). Some of the low energy consuming appliances brought from the US (120V) can be used without transformers, though desk top computers and other sensitive items might be affected. High powered 120V appliances like microwave ovens, vacuum cleaners, dryers may not work properly in Japan. You can use such products with step-up transformers (from 100v to 120V) transformers are available at the duty free electrical stores and Tokyo Lease Corporation."

So my guess would be a CHE would be fine to use as it's not very high powered. But it might be best to ask someone over there who would know more about it than I do.

@ LandakLover I would be a bit careful with fans and such as hedgehogs can be sensitive to drafts. They can get sick if there's too much (cold) air blowing in/over their enclosure.


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## Yukidama's mama (Apr 4, 2017)

Thank you so much for all the info Draenog! That website link about the voltage outputs is so helpful! Also I didn't realise Japan had two different frequencies, so my light timer works correctly now that I've switched the frequency down as suggested on that website 
Ok so looks like a CHE from the States should work or I can get a transformer from a duty free electrical stores to make it work if not, that's such a relief! I knew the voltage in Europe was considerably different as some electrical things we brought from home don't work properly here >< thanks again, I really appreciate it! ^^

Oh wow I had no idea how humid Amsterdam was all year round! That's reassuring to know then that a viv should be fine here... Ah yes especially in Tokyo, living space is so limited! Our apartment is bigger than most but still relatively small compared to places in the UK etc. My next hurdle now is actually finding a viv big enough >< which I'm failing to find. I quite like the look of a wooden viv but they seem non-existent here (I think they are mainly popular in the UK/Europe?), can only find glass ones here and even then there isn't much choice. I will keep searching or look into getting one shipped over if it won't cost me my life savings! 

Btw I joined the Facebook group for bioactive & naturalistic mammals setup the other day! I'm definitely keen to get on board with it ~ hopefully I'll find more guidance on there too


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