# IHR- how will i know when its been registered?



## Guest (Apr 26, 2012)

I registered all my hedghogs over a month ago and im just wondering how/ when ill know if they have actually been added?

i also moved since i did it will something be mailed to me?


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## LarryT (May 12, 2009)

The IHR is very slow, some people have been waiting six months or more. I don't think you will find much help here, just keep emailing the IHR and maybe you shall get lucky one of these days.


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## connorshogs (Mar 24, 2011)

Jeanne is moving so mite take a while while she gets air back up. Also she is the only person that does it and its a lottt of work.


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## nikki (Aug 28, 2008)

When they are registered you'll get an email with their number.


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## Guest (Apr 27, 2012)

awsome thanks guys

if i could help some way i would


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## nikki (Aug 28, 2008)

I offered for almost a year to help Jeanne with it, she won't let anyone help. I was the secretary of the HBA but resigned because she wouldn't get back to me etc and I finally just gave up.


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## Guest (Apr 27, 2012)

oh ouch. Thats to bead. Is a valuable research and id worry that people wont use it because they get frustrated with the wait.


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

Quillzmom said:


> oh ouch. Thats to bead. Is a valuable research and id worry that people wont use it because they get frustrated with the wait.


That's exactly what been happening.


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## Guest (Apr 27, 2012)

i dont know if it would be possible but couldnt someone else start it over themselves or would it be to much information ?


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## connorshogs (Mar 24, 2011)

Anyone that jeanne did let help quit once the realized how much time and work went into doing it! She does her best with it and falls behind because boomed wants to put the time into it.


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## nikki (Aug 28, 2008)

I was willing to put the time into it...to learn from her...but she wouldn't even answer me...that's why i gave up, not because of how much work it would be.


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## GoodandPlenty (Feb 4, 2012)

> The IHR is very slow, some people have been waiting six months or more. I don't think you will find much help here, just keep emailing the IHR and maybe you shall get lucky one of these days.


This.

Private emails did not work for me (too easily ignored), but a semi-public inquiry did (embarrassment works).
............................................................

As an outsider, looking to learn about hedgies and have one myself, I considered the IHR as potentially valuable in selecting a reputable breeder, which was a high priority. As someone new to hedgehogs (but working as a researcher/writer) I found it near impossible to get good information (from anywhere) about the breeders that I was considering. It seemed to me that backtracking a lineage and verifying validity could be useful and/or interesting, so I had an extra interest in the IHR and what they do. (Two emails looking for input on the breeders I was considering went unanswered.)

It seems to me, as an outsider (which sometimes offers the clearest view of a situation), that the IHR doesn't do a very good job at its mission. My experience was an epic fail for item four of their Mission Statement: To connect hedgehog owners and breeders with one another, to the enhancement of the hedgehog community."

I well understand that it is probably a small organization, probably volunteer, probably operating with limited funds . . . I get it, and know a little about non-profit and no-profit enterprises. But those reasons/excuses do not change the facts of whether the job is being done or being done poorly. Intentions are important, but what actually gets done is what counts.

Eventually, I did find a couple of people that I felt pretty good about that gave good recommendations for the breeder that I went with. She was open and transparent and I was quite pleased. She was open with Sophie's lineage and talking with her was very informative. I was warned that the IHR number could take a while, that she was waiting a on quite a lot of numbers already.

After six weeks I got personally involved. Because I felt good that my breeder was being honest with me, I zeroed in on the IHR and Jeanne. Two private emails went unanswered. Finally, I resorted to a semi-public inquiry and included quite a few people on an email that laid out the timeline and essentially asked, "Please help me get this done." (I didn't actually 'need' the IHR number, but it had become 'an item of interest'.)

That email resulted in my number being taken care of. Shortly thereafter, my breeder got all of her backlogged numbers plus an 'advance block'.

In addition to the nudges that got me my IHR number, I received several private emails that warned me it could be many months before anything got done. I was also told that a lot of people don't even bother with it anymore because it is a lot of trouble for marginal results - that they do not even offer buyers IHR numbers because it is a promise they can't keep, which means there is no selling point to hedgie buyers.

My experience, as an outsider to the hedgie community (but not unfamiliar with animals), has been that the Hedgehog Central forums are about the only resource of substance. (The many views offered here, even if conflicting, make it the most reliable resource as well. There is a vetting process to the flow of information. On other websites, there is nothing to temper people of 'fixed views and opinions'.)

The only 'outsiders' that have an easy time selecting a breeder are the people that don't make an effort and will just buy any animal, from anyone. If you actually care about buying a quality animal from a reputable breeder - good luck, you're gonna need it. For all of my research and all of my questions, the biggest unknown, the biggest gamble - was for the most important thing, selecting the animal.

(It strikes me that what they need is a completely revamped database and a qualified database manager. With proper checks and balances, a number of people could submit data. Really, Jeanne, or someone in her position, should not be doing much of the actual 'work', but monitoring and managing those that do. Databases are outside of what I do, but I strongly suspect an antiquated operation, inadequate for the need no matter who is running it.)


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## TeddysMommy (Apr 24, 2011)

I've been waiting 10 months, still nothing... but its not like I NEED it, but some people like breeders might.


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## moxieberry (Nov 30, 2011)

My breeder gets the numbers for the babies she breeds in batches of 25 or 40 or something - enough to last her several months. So the babies are each assigned a number and part of the paperwork when they're sold is getting the rest of the info that the new owners supply (owner name, the name they give the hedgehog). So the babies are all registered before they're sold, then their registration info is updated/details added after the sale. She requests a new chunk of numbers from Jeanne and gets a reply usually the next day. So at least for breeders, there are more efficient ways to do it with multiple animals. Not every breeder does it that way, but that one seems very effective.

As for individual animals being registered, I wonder if maybe the registration is getting done but there's a delay in replies going back to let people know. Clearly it would work better if there was some kind of computer system that could process the info, but there are complications involved in switching to such a system. I'm not a programmer, but off the top of my head I know it would require money, almost definitely someone with programming knowledge (at minimum just available to deal with problems) and all of the previous records would have to be put into the system somehow. Would it make things easier in a lot of ways? Of course. But it's not that simple.


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## LarryT (May 12, 2009)

Some breeders are good friends with the people in charge and they get thier numbers quickly and thier emails answered in a timely fashion, others are not so lucky and must wait forever. It's kinda like who you know and bull.


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

First of all I want to stress the point that everyone knows what a big job keeping the registry is, the time involved and how much work it is. We all know that Jeanne is the only one doing it and is not paid for doing so. Everyone has a life and other things in their lives and so does Jeanne. We know it is a thankless, volunteer job and a big job. That has never been in dispute.

The issue is, there have been ongoing complaints about the registry for years from single hedgehog pet owners, small breeders, large breeders, and rescues. It is always the same complaints. Either people don't get their numbers, or it takes forever and multiple emails, or going public to get them. Sometimes people never do get them. Yes, some people are lucky and get them quickly, but too many people don't. Often people have stated they don't mind waiting if they at least heard back that their information had been received. Some breeders have quit registering because they've gotten so far behind from not receiving numbers. There are babies being born and the parents don't have numbers yet.

New breeders complain because they contact the registry wanting information on the line they are planning to purchase and never get a reply. When WHS does show up, those with hedgehogs in that line are never informed and if the breeders don't happen to hear it word of mouth, they have no clue.

The registry should be a valuable tool but it isn't.

It would be complicated for more than one person to enter information but it could be done. Someone could be in charge of entering all the hedgehogs with no known lineage. A couple people could enter litter information into the program and all Jeanne would have to do is import it into the registry after confirming the parents numbers. There are ways to improve the process, but it's been this way for years and whenever it's brought up that it needs improvement people get all defensive. Many people have wanted to help over the years, and certainly, not just anyone could help. It would have to be someone well known and trustworthy because we've seen damage done to the registry in the past. Better yet, have volunteers that are not breeders so there can be no conflict of interest.

This issue comes up frequently but nothing ever changes and nothing ever will until those in charge decide to do something about it.


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## connorshogs (Mar 24, 2011)

Jeanne is my mentor and I also wait for numbers. I don't find her to be unfair about distributing numbers. I bug and bug her and I wait just like the rest of the people lol. I like hhc and find it to be very helpfull.


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## moxieberry (Nov 30, 2011)

I agree with everything you just said, Nancy. Since I don't actually know the details of the process Jeanne uses, I can't comment as to what exactly might make the most sense to change or tweak. I know my first thought was that computerizing the process would take a lot of the manual work out of it, but I also wanted to point out the complexities of transferring to such a system. I also think there are ways that it could be done with several people, but that could also present problems.

One thing, as you mentioned, is trustworthiness of the people - meaning, perceived trustworthiness; they'd have to be individuals without anything to be gained from the position or any factors that could be seen as motive to "tamper with" any of the information in the database. Then there's the issue that if it were to be a system where the work is divided between several people, it could badly mess things up or cause delays if one of those people were to not follow through, or for some reason be unable to do the work for a period of time. For instance, if registration required a process in which it passed from person A, to person B, to person C, everything would stop if one of the people in the "conveyor belt" couldn't do the work (even for legitimate reasons, i.e. sickness or death in the family or whatever). This is especially true in a situation where the people working on it aren't in the same physical area, but in different locations and it's all done by online communication. I can understand that after a few people failing to follow through - which could easily have caused things to become even more backlogged - Jeanne could be very discouraged from continuing to try a cooperative process. (Anyone would, in that situation. I don't know her personally.)

This isn't meant to be in defense of "the way things are now", but just a discussion. I can see it from multiple points of view. I agree that there's a lot that needs fixing, but I also am at least glad that it is able to function on some level. Some is better than none. I know that doesn't help with people's frustration, though, nor should it. I sympathize with everyone who's had to wait or been frustrated with the system, and I especially sympathize with Jeanne, who does so much but is, unfortunately, just one person. Again, I say it without knowing her or knowing the details of how things are run, but the way I see it, /she/ is not the blame. The system just isn't designed well.

Neither of the points I made in my first post were meant to come across in a defensive way, and I'm sorry if they were interpreted that way. :] I wanted to add what I know of my breeder's process since the way she orders numbers in "clumps" is most likely a method that isn't well known, and it seems like she developed that as the best way (for her) over several years and through trial and error. Obviously that method can't be applied to non-breeders wanting to register individual hedgehogs, but I thought I'd put it out there anyway.


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

With the program that is used, people don't have to live in the same area to input the information. All they need is the program and can enter the information into their computer, and then email the file to Jeanne to import into the main registry. It's basically the same as a human genealogy program. As long as the information is entered in the exact same way, anyone with the program could enter information and it will link up. I have the same program the registry uses as do many breeders and could easily have sent Jeanne my info already entered as long as I had it set up in the same format as the registry. As long as the person or people helping out, strictly follow that same format, it would work.

Many breeders get blocks of numbers and that works wonderfully as long as the blocks of numbers are given when we need them. The problem is, sending that big block of numbers with baby info back means a lot of info to input and if she is already backed up, then the next block of numbers doesn't arrive when needed.... and it snowballs. 

The registry program itself is fine. The problem is the time involved to keep it up to date is more than one person can handle and that is what needs to be changed.


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## moxieberry (Nov 30, 2011)

Yeah, I wasn't sure about the actual software, or whether it was some sort of private database vs. being done in a standard pedigree type program. Thanks for clarifying that part! What I meant by the "system" being the issue isn't specifically the software used, but the overall process of how the whole thing is done. Obviously something isn't working, and it definitely seems like the main problem is that it's too big a job for one person. And, yes, my mention of the "blocks of numbers" method is just my understanding of it. The good thing about that method (going by my experience when we got Archimedes) is that it's simple and painless for the new owners. I have no idea about how well it works when it comes to the breeder sending that info back, but I can see how it wouldn't be the most effective in terms of that.


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## Guest (Apr 29, 2012)

i know there use to be a fee to register hedgehogs im curious as to why that was taken away if there was would it be possible to hire someone to help make the registry more automated so its less work?


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

It was when Jeanne took over the registry that it became free. If not right when she took over, it was very shortly after and I believe it was her doing. Free is a good thing and encourages more breeders to register. I know of one breeder in Ontario who used to use the excuse that registering was expensive and continued to use that excuse long after registering became free. Still doesn't register, so as everyone knew back then, it was just an excuse. Being free eliminates excuses such as that. 

With the frustrations those who register have been through over the past few years, adding a fee now and probably no one would even try to register. People have long memories and I think it would take years of receiving quick numbers before people would be willing to pay a fee. 

I'm also not so sure an automated system would work and I think it would create a jumbled up mess. Unless there was a way that people could input their own information and it came out in a format that Jeanne could check and then import directly into the registry. It would save her typing all the info in, but the info would still have to be checked to make sure everything is in the right place.


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## Kalandra (Aug 25, 2008)

Thank you all for your suggestions regarding the International Hedgehog Registry. Yes, the registry has a back log. Yes, the delay is several months long, but we are currently working on reducing that delay. If you have waited 6 months, then there likely has been a problem with your submission. I encourage you to resubmit, or send your hedgehog's information to [email protected].

To answer the original question, once registered you will receive an email from the registry with your hedgehog's IHR # and registered name. Watch for an email from [email protected].

Porting the registry to a more automatic system is a great idea, and one which we have thought about but haven't found a feasible method yet to do it. We do look at other options from time to time, but many of those will not make it any easier than what we have now.

Having personally looked at some of the registrations, it is not as simple as enter the data provided and give a new number. There are some that are that easy, but there are others that require more work to properly enter. Sometimes people mispell names, typo registration numbers, sire/dam names, or they do not fill out the form fully. The registrar proofs all of this and has to research and follow-up in order to proceed. You have to proof, otherwise the old garbage in, garbage out rule comes into play.

The registry fees were removed many years ago in order to encourage all to register their hedgehogs. Instead of charging a fee, we pay for the software, and all other costs involved in running the registry from International Hedgehog Association (IHA) membership dues. The IHA does not have a payroll, all of its activities are provided by a small group of volunteers.

Julie Haynes
President
International Hedgehog Association


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## shawnwk1 (Jul 8, 2011)

sometimes it gets sent to your spam folder so for those that have waited a long time you might double check your spam folder to make sure it didn't land there accidentally


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