# Think I hurt hedgie's mouth



## owenhedgehog (Jan 26, 2009)

Have 2nd old hedgehog with mite infestation. Vet gave ivermectin injection, Revolution, and oral antibiotics. He wasn't cooperative getting antibiotics, so I tried to slide syringe in side of mouth, like I have done for other pets. He seemed to swallow most.

He has been crabby (normal) and extremely active all day (not normal). I checked him a little while and there seems to be pink "tissue/flesh" hanging from side of mouth. It's very small, maybe 1/2 grain of rice. Jaw, teeth look fine. Can't tell if part of tongue or otherwise. Not bloody now, and don't know if pink next to his mouth is from antibiotics or blood. Could I have cut him or damaged his tongue?

Of course, vet closed until tomorrow. Are their mouths that terribly tender? He is moving his tongue, but too quick for me to see it. Doesn't really even seem to be in pain, though he has never had an injury, so don't have frame of reference.

Thanks for help.


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## Hedgehog Grove (Jul 21, 2010)

I don't understand why he is on antibiotics for a mites infestation. He also never should have be injected with the Ivermectin, it has killed hedgehogs before and is very dangerous. But good you came here so now you know not to use Ivermectin again

Revolution is the only safe medication to use for mites on hedgehogs. .01cc or a couple of drops on the back of the should blades every 2 weeks for 3 doses (6 weeks in total for complete treatment).

As for the piece of flesh/skin hanging down from his mouth, do you have a photo we could see?

They do have tender skin in the mouth region, so maybe just a slight damage from the syringe episode.

His behavior of been up all day doesnt sound right either.


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## MissC (Nov 15, 2010)

Is there a vet open today?


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## owenhedgehog (Jan 26, 2009)

Trying to upload photo, will continue to attempt.

It definitely is his tongue. I saw a post about tongue injuries advising to keep tongue moist. He eagerly drank from syringe and was licking water off my finger. There is obvious injury and swelling. He fusses when I pick him up, but doesn't try to get away. It doesn't seem to hurt him, but is not interested in his super worms or softened kibble. Will try baby food (?)

His meds - saw lots of conflicting info on ivermection, saw possibility of death too late. He was given antibiotics because he had one area he had scratched that looked infected. 

Emergency vet only open on weekends (small town).


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## MissC (Nov 15, 2010)

This is hopefully off-topic but just in case: Have you been cutting the heads off the superworms? The creepy little things bite. Even after being chomped on. I'm just thinking that's the last thing you need right now.


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## owenhedgehog (Jan 26, 2009)

Didn't know that about the super worms. They have never been a problem. Will keep a look out for that and take extra caution.


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## owenhedgehog (Jan 26, 2009)

Owen has finally gone to sleep. He was awake for at least eight hours! He walked around and around and kept sticking his nose high in the air sniffing. Will visit vet tomorrow depending on how he looks.


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## silvercat (Oct 24, 2008)

MissC said:


> This is hopefully off-topic but just in case: Have you been cutting the heads off the superworms? The creepy little things bite. Even after being chomped on. I'm just thinking that's the last thing you need right now.


The superworm may have caused the issue and not the syringe. Superworms will bit the mouth & throat of the animal when being eaten, causing swelling and possible infections. When feeding, be sure to cut their heads off (or just feed regular mealworms)


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## SnufflePuff (Apr 16, 2009)

Did you end up seeing the vet?

How's the little guy doing?


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## owenhedgehog (Jan 26, 2009)

SnufflePuff said:


> Did you end up seeing the vet?
> 
> How's the little guy doing?


I did not take him to the vet. In the morning his mouth looked "better", swelling was down considerably. He was drinking water offered by syringe and licking his antibiotics from syringe. I can see that one side of his tongue is white, with a bit of tissue hanging off. He didn't flinch when I would touch that tissue, so I sterilized a tiny pair of scissors and clipped it off.

Offered softened and regular kibble, but no interest. He is not eating well. I think he ate some scrambled egg last night. (He is quite annoyed with me, so I can't watch him do anything. He just fussed at me.). I bathed him in aveeno oatmeal tonight and he didn't poop in water at all. This worries me a lot. I have switched his bedding to fabric, so I can look for poop in his cage (instead of shavings). I was able to get a little bit of Stage 1 chicken in him, though he fussed and wiggled the whole time.

Perhaps it was a super worm that hurt him. Never have been bitten by one. We buy them for our bearded dragon too so I handle them a lot (neighborhood children love to see dragon fed by hand). Won't offer 
anymore.

I have to say that this series of incidents has been good for my level of comfort and familiarity with him. He was my oldest daughter's pet. He tolerated her only. When we began to foster an abnormally friendly rabbit, her attention went elsewhere. Youngest child took over care and she didn't know what to look for really, when she was even able to handle him. I have handled him a lot in the last couple of days and am not intimidated by attempts to stab me and find that he will cooperate to an extent with gentle pressure. So, while I hate that he is going through this, I hope it only gets better from here (if he ever forgives me).


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## owenhedgehog (Jan 26, 2009)

Many stories on web about biting super worms. I saw can cause swelling and infection. He is on Bactrim now, so hopefully will all heal well. Will save for dragon only, I am not cutting heads off of live worms (will feed them headfirst to lizard, but no decapitation).


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## PintoPrincess2 (Apr 5, 2011)

Good to know, about the worms and biting. I wouldn't have thought of that. We normally feed them regulard Mealworms but lately my husbands been wanting to try to give them Spikes. I think they're Mealworm larva. Secptical about it though, I haven't run into anyone who uses them. I hope your little guy feels better and never has to go through such a thing again ( You either).


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## SnufflePuff (Apr 16, 2009)

Wow - he let you cut Loose skin off his tongue? That's crazy. The antibiotics should prevent infection, but you must keep putting food in him otherwise he risks developing fatty liver disease which can kill them unfortunately. I would normally say take him to the vet anyways but if the tongue looks better and isn't that bad - what would they do anyways? Suture it? Maybe wait for a more advice members opinion on this. He is on antibiotics already so that's taken care of. Go to the stickies on syringe feeding. I would stick to baby food or wet cat food called hills a/d or medical recovery (sold at dog and cat vets). Warm it up, mix it with water and run it through the syringe (suck it up and squirt it out) a few times. Syringe in the side of his mouth and squirt a little bit, let him swallow, then a bit more. You want to get 3-4ml in at a time as many times as you can in a day. He might not be drinking either so you can also syringe childrens pedialyte. You may want to buy acidophilus tablets and crush them and mix a little in with the syringed food since antibiotics often kill the good bacteria in their gut and can cause green poop. 

Let us know if you have any more questions, but definitely get as much food as possible in him until that tongue heals and he will eat on his own. Best of luck!

Also - if you scruff him during syringe feeding (put a glove on and grab the loose skin on his neck with one hand - this will hold him still and make it much easier!


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## owenhedgehog (Jan 26, 2009)

Snuffle puff, the hanging piece of tissue on his tongue was obviously not alive, was a greyish color. He did not react when I held it with a tweezers to try and see what it was. He didn't seem to feel it when I snipped it off. He weighed 375g at vet on Monday, 343g this morning on my scale. He is very active. He got out of his playpen last night and we found him on the other side of the house, down the hallway.


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## owenhedgehog (Jan 26, 2009)

Syringe fed 4 ml of water, 3 ml of chicken baby food this morning. He is going for weight recheck and will feed him mid-day. I will be out of town next week, so he is coming with me, unless there is a government shutdown and then he will have full attention while I am furloughed at home.


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## SnufflePuff (Apr 16, 2009)

owenhedgehog said:


> Snuffle puff, the hanging piece of tissue on his tongue was obviously not alive, was a greyish color. He did not react when I held it with a tweezers to try and see what it was. He didn't seem to feel it when I snipped it off. He weighed 375g at vet on Monday, 343g this morning on my scale. He is very active. He got out of his playpen last night and we found him on the other side of the house, down the hallway.


I figured as much, I just meant it was impressive that he let you get near his mouth, most hedgehog owners can't do that. It sounds like the little guy trusts you 

Don't worry too much about the weight fluctuation, hedgehogs can lose that much weight from a big poop, also my vet's scaled and my scale never agree, so there might be a difference there as well. Try weighing him on the same scale at approximately the same time every day.



owenhedgehog said:


> Syringe fed 4 ml of water, 3 ml of chicken baby food this morning. He is going for weight recheck and will feed him mid-day. I will be out of town next week, so he is coming with me, unless there is a government shutdown and then he will have full attention while I am furloughed at home.


It sounds like you're doing a great job  Force-feeding can be difficult and stressful and you're doing an awesome job! Also I wanted to say it's so great that you took over for your eldest daughter to ensure he got the best care possible!

Although it's never fun when they are having issues, I've found that I've done the most bonding with my hedgehogs during the times they were sick and needed me. I am sure he appreciates all of your hard work!


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## owenhedgehog (Jan 26, 2009)

Thanks for your support Snufflepuff. Owen does not like the force-feeding in the least bit. I just get my thumb across his chest before he rolls up. He twists his head up and down trying to avoid the syringe. He tries to bite it every once in a while, which makes it easy. Will keep it up. Hope he starts eating again soon. Vet wasn't in when I took him today, but our scales are 30g difference, so he hasn't lost too much.


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## owenhedgehog (Jan 26, 2009)

Hedgehog Grove said:


> As for the piece of flesh/skin hanging down from his mouth, do you have a photo we could see?
> 
> They do have tender skin in the mouth region, so maybe just a slight damage from the syringe episode.
> 
> ...


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

That does not look good. He needs to see a vet. Even the skin under his chin and on his paw and above his paw is very red and irritated looking. What type of bedding is he on?


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## owenhedgehog (Jan 26, 2009)

Nancy - this picture was from a week ago. The redness was from his mite infestation, which is much better now. I posted the photo as an illustration of what damage a superworm can do. The hanging piece on his tongue was trimmed off and swelling is down. I believe his tongue is still tender though, because he is not eating hard kibble. Vet recheck today. His weight is down 40g, up 10g from lowest point though.


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## SnufflePuff (Apr 16, 2009)

*!*

Ugh, that picture is yucky looking. I am very glad it's looking better than that and that he is getting rechecked by the vet regularily!!

Are you still syringe feeding him? You could try to offer him some tasty softer food (wet cat food, baby food, or some younger crickets that dont have as hard of exoskeltons) in his cage at night and see if he'll start eating that on his own?

Otherwise keep up with vet visits and syringe feeding and antibiotics (I assume he's still on them) and let it heal I guess?

Poor Hedgie


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## PintoPrincess2 (Apr 5, 2011)

Poor little guy!  That looks painful. I hope he heals quickly but it's good to hear that he has already improved. Did the vet too agree that it was from the Superworm? I've never even heard of them before you posted this topic. We use regular mealies and every once in a while when the store has them spikes. They're typically used for ice fishing so you cant always get them but they are small and very soft. But anway, good luck. This experience will probably make you too closer and be a good bonding/trust experience. I will note to never ever get Superworms.


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## lmashbri6983 (May 29, 2009)

Yes, I'm also curious, did the vet confirm the mouth problems / tongue problems were due to a Superworm bite?
Also wondering if you could upload another photo so we can see how the little guy is healing? I'd love an update! Hopefully his skin is feeling better too, after being treated.


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## owenhedgehog (Jan 26, 2009)

Been off the net for a few days, so sorry for delay in replies and update. Had to go out of town for work and couldn't take Owen with me. The barracks I am staying in don't have individual temp control and are always way too cold for humans or hedgies. Left under care of hubby and kids. They did great! 

Owen is eating his kibble again! Vet check on Tues showed no more weight loss and just a tiny sore left on tongue (no gas was needed, she was able to open mouth with wood end of qtip). Wed night he ate 5 pieces, and last night about 15 pieces of food. 

He goes back on Monday for 2nd dose of Revolution. Scales are gone on back, scabs healed and coming off. New quills are coming in, but he was still losing quite a few each daily, mostly when restraining him to syringe feed. The follicles were attached, but dried up. Felt bad like I was yanking them out, but think they needed to be shed, possibly. His tummy skin looks great too. 

Getting rid of wood shavings this weekend. Tried putting him on towels, but he pushed them aside and slept on plastic, and got soaked in urine nightly. Yuck. Going to buy fleece and make strips to see if he will like that. 

Now to put his weight back on. Still down 50g. So maybe one syringe feed a day for the next week will help. 

Thanks everybody!


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## rivoli256 (Mar 1, 2009)

glad to hear his is improving!


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

YAY! I'm glad he is doing better and eating more normally.


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## PintoPrincess2 (Apr 5, 2011)

Good Good! Glads to her the little guys feeling better!


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## PJM (May 7, 2010)

Yay! I'm so happy he's doing better! Thanks for keeping us updated!


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## SnufflePuff (Apr 16, 2009)

Hurray!

I just love good news!!!!


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## RalphsMum (Oct 14, 2010)

I'm so pleased that your lil guy is getting better!


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