# quilling help!!!



## nicole1389 (Oct 3, 2011)

Ok i just got my baby hedgehog about 2 weeks ago and he will be 4 months on 10/20/11. I noticed that the past 5 days or so he started quilling. I'm pretty sure it isn't mites and that it really is quilling. The main question is, could this give him a huge amount of stress? before the quilling his poo returned to normal from the diet change and the move, then now its almost worse than before. I know baby hedgehogs are little poop machines, but he isn't following his usual behavior (or what i thought was his usual behavior right up until this quilling). When i wake up in the morning the wheel is covered in poop (as usual) but it is not as solid. I suspect that it is just mixed in with his urine, because ive seen him poopie and its just regular and no cause for alarm. In addition it is back to being a slight shade of really dark green, and his poo is just everywhere. normally he had kept it confined to his wheel, but he's just going anywhere now. Ive noticed that even one day he pooped in his little igloo. Also, Ive noticed that he eats about half what he used to and drinks twice as much. All this happened as soon as i noticed he was quilling and not even a day before.

Is this kind of behavior normal? Is he just under incredible amounts of stress? And will it end? I just had a vet visit on 10/4 (and today is 10/10) and the vet said he was totally fine and in perfect health. I'm just a little scared for my little one because i've never woken up and seen poo totally everywhere before.


----------



## Guest (Oct 10, 2011)

That doesn't sound like normal behavior reduced food intake and increased drinking points towards something being wrong especially if its been like this for a few days.

Quilling can cause behavior and stress issues for hedgehogs so that might explain the greenish poop, but the food and water is a cause for concern.

Answering the below questions might help 



> When posting asking for ideas on what might be wrong with your hedgehog, the more information you give, the better we may be able to help. Below are some guidelines to follow. The first section, please answer each question. The second part, answer those that apply.
> 
> It is easiest to follow if you stick to one thread so we can follow updates more easily.
> 
> ...


----------



## nicole1389 (Oct 3, 2011)

- How old is your hedgehog? 
15 weeks
- How long have you owned your hedgehog? 
10 days
- Has there been any changes in the 2-3 weeks prior to the symptoms starting, such as, you on vacation, hedgie cared for by someone else, new cage, different cage location etc
He just moved in with me on September 30th, had a vet visit on October 4th, tried fleece lining for 2 days (10/8 & 10/9) then moved back to his regular shavings (like the kind he had before he moved in with me) today, 10/10.
- What is the temperature of the hedgehogs cage?
77 degrees F
- What is the lighting schedule?
light comes on at 8am and shuts off at 9pm

Please add dates that symptoms occurred such as, Aug 11 green poop. August 13 diarrhea plus vomiting
- wasnt doing much so i switched wheels to the flying saucer wheel, then he was fine and ran on it like crazy. was in great health (appeared so). then on the 8th (its been getting worse since then) when the feeces changed and the eating changed.

Weight
Do you weigh regularly? If so, how much has hedgie lost or gained over X number of days.
I havent, but he was just under 1/2 lb at the vet visit 10/4 and he said he was in perfect health then.

Poop
- normal size and texture, soft but formed, mush, liquid, jelly like
a bit like toothpaste consistency, but greenish in color. the whole thing is greenish and not just parts
- colour normal, slightly green, very green, bloody
very dark green
- smell normal, stronger than normal, put you out of the room rank
the poo smells bad, but the same as it always had. but the urine is the worst. 
- Pooping in bed
he has started doing that a little bit. urinating there too

Urine
-normal, dark, bloody, less or more than normal, straining to pee, peeing in bed
it looks normal, but since hes drinking more he is also peeing more. and he has peed in his bed once 2 days ago.

Nose
-sneezing - wet or dry, frequency, when first waking up, all the time
-Mucous - clear liquid, thick clear, coloured
-Licking nose?
he does not sneeze or have mucous, and he does lick his nose, but only when hes smelling something he really likes and it isn't excessive.


Breathing
-normal, slow, rapid, laboured, wheezing, open or closed mouth,
normal to slow

Eating
- normally, less than normal, not at all
went from 1.5 tbsp to 1 tbsp (or a little less)
- How many kibble per day?
i offer 2 tbsp, but he is maybe eating half that
- Any difficulty crunching food?
nope
- Has there been a new food or treat recently and if so, how long ago? Was this one time, or given daily?
i give him the occasional meal worm, but ive been doing that since he moved in (and the breeder had too). i am waiting to introduce new treats until he seems a little better.
- Is the water the same as usual? Water intake, less, same, more
one day he hardly drank any water at all so i switched from tap to britta or bottled and he likes that better. then he drank every last drop of his water (usually its only about 1/2 to 2/3 of his little ceramic dish). now he has about evened out almost back to normal habits, but still he is urinating a lot and pretty much everywhere

Skin
-Scratching – excessively, frequent, occasional, rarely, frantically
i noticed him scratch a few times 3 days ago, but that was the only time i ever saw it
-Dry skin – small powder like flakes, large flakes, huge sheets of flaking skin
none that i have seen
-Sores – size, location, scabbed or raw
none
-Rash – red skin, pin prick size, hives, location
none
-Quills - minor quill loss, massive quill loss, bare spots
big quill loss

Vomiting
-mushy food, frothy white, frothy green
none
-How frequent is he vomiting? Is it after eating, drinking, activity or random?
none

Activity
-normal, lethargic, wobbly, tires easily
he seems normal, and i can tell when i wake up that he definitely used his wheel a lot. and he still is just as alert and curious when i take him out for bonding time.

Meds
- name
none
- When started
none
- frequency
none


----------



## Guest (Oct 10, 2011)

Being "pray" animals by nature they hide illness very much, however young hedgehogs also do not have good control of their bowels and release where they are. It is however very unusual for any animal to poop and urinate where it is sleeping.

I notice you switch back from fleece after just two days, any particular reason?

What kind of shavings are being used?

It sounds like he may need a follow up with the vet, perhaps a phone consult for the moment, I am not an expert on health issues though there are some red flags that raise alarm.


----------



## nicole1389 (Oct 3, 2011)

i tried fleece for a while on recommendation from a bunch of posts here saying it was better than shavings. (ps, i use pine). i thought it looked neater, but they did not hide the smell of his excrement so i switched back. and since they fleece did not absorb his poopies and pee like the shavings did, it was hard for me to totally tell if he accidentally dragged some poop into his igloo (from poopy feet) or what. plus, i had been lining the cage with paper towels overtop of the fleece and it was also hard to tell if he had peed on the outside of his igloo and it just bled through inside or what. either way, i felt that the shavings kept it more contained and from just getting everywhere. so now that i have made the switch back this morning i will examine his cage next morning and see if the excrement in his igloo is a problem and not just a result from a less absorbent bedding. 

i called the vet this morning too and he wasn't in but will call me tomorrow. 

another note: i noticed bloody paw prints in his igloo too. i read that sometimes the young hedgies can get so excited running on the wheel that they can stub their feet. his saucer wheel does have the traction marks on it and i wondering if those could have caused it? i washed his feet today (no soap just warm water) and i looked all over him and could not see any cuts or anything on him. has this happened to anyone else before? lol this has been a messed up morning lol.


----------



## Guest (Oct 10, 2011)

nicole1389 said:


> i tried fleece for a while on recommendation from a bunch of posts here saying it was better than shavings. (ps, i use pine). i thought it looked neater, but they did not hide the smell of his excrement so i switched back. and since they fleece did not absorb his poopies and pee like the shavings did, it was hard for me to totally tell if he accidentally dragged some poop into his igloo (from poopy feet) or what. plus, i had been lining the cage with paper towels overtop of the fleece and it was also hard to tell if he had peed on the outside of his igloo and it just bled through inside or what. either way, i felt that the shavings kept it more contained and from just getting everywhere. so now that i have made the switch back this morning i will examine his cage next morning and see if the excrement in his igloo is a problem and not just a result from a less absorbent bedding.
> 
> i called the vet this morning too and he wasn't in but will call me tomorrow.
> 
> another note: i noticed bloody paw prints in his igloo too. i read that sometimes the young hedgies can get so excited running on the wheel that they can stub their feet. his saucer wheel does have the traction marks on it and i wondering if those could have caused it? i washed his feet today (no soap just warm water) and i looked all over him and could not see any cuts or anything on him. has this happened to anyone else before? lol this has been a messed up morning lol.


Is it Kiln-Dried Pine? If not it is more likely to harbor mites (however even Kiln-Dried can harbor mites) and can cause respiratory issues for your hedgehog their urine mixing with the pine can actually be harmful. Fleece is difficult when they are young and unable to control their bowels I agree, as they get older it is a much more clean as they tend to choose a spot and the wheel as their bathroom and neat bedding for hedgehogs.

If you choose to stick with bedding the safest is aspen bedding as far as safety of your hedgehog, however it can harbor mites as well.

Look closely if it happens again for redness between the toes or cracks, their feet heal quickly, they can run them ragged.


----------



## nicole1389 (Oct 3, 2011)

it is "all natural, kiln-dried pine". 

and i will definitely keep a look out for the feet thing. thanks for all the tips guys! i'll post again tomorrow morning to see if there was any change (now that he has bedding again instead of fleece)


----------

