# I'm getting conflicting info from my breeder and you guys...



## ourico (May 20, 2011)

I've been reading on here for a long time, and I thought I understood all of the basic needs. Then I went onto Heavenly Hedgehogs website to look at the payment options. I clicked on the Shopping List section cause I was interested in cause I'd forgotten anything. Things are there are confusing me...

_"I have had people ask me if they need heat lamps, as they had heard they do. They do not need heat lamps, they are not cold blooded as are reptiles. As long as the room is room temperature, they are fine."_ - *But I thought they had to be warmer then room temp? 73-78.*

_"All natural, vegetable based organic dog or cat shampoos are fairly inexpensive & safe"_ - *I read on here that you shouldn't use them because they are drying and you should use aveeno.*

_"I use softwood shavings, pine,or aspen. (never cedar)."_ - *I thought fleece was the best bedding, and shavings were good because they are dusty and can get stuck in places?*

_"8 Ounce, leak proof, plastic water bottles are fine"_ - *But people on here say to never use a water bottle because they break there teeth on them and they cannot comfortably drink from them.*

_"The minimum size should be 25" x 17" = 2.9 sq feet."_ - *On here though, you say to have a minimum of 2 square feet after the accessories/beds/toys are in the cage.*

So I'm *very* confused


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## MissC (Nov 15, 2010)

There is a lot of out-dated advice out there. My rule of thumb when faced with conflicting info: better safe than sorry. Providing all of these things, even if they're not necessary, will do no harm, right?


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## ourico (May 20, 2011)

I thought Heavenly Hedgehogs was a good breeder to get a baby from... :| maybe not...


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## Guest (Jul 14, 2011)

ourico said:


> I thought Heavenly Hedgehogs was a good breeder to get a baby from... :| maybe not...


Just keep in mind that even the best of people with the best intentions get "set in their ways" things change and sometimes breeders and owners don't take to it well. While there are of course exceptions to this to people in the hedgehog business for the money some people take criticism very poorly and allow it to block what is most important the well-being and happiness of their hedgehogs.

If a breeder has never seen significant problems with their methods they usually will be a bit obstinate about things and that is nothing against them.

I tend to do what you do ask or investigate further to find out the most up to date accurate information, and here is where I tend to find it we have so many long term owners and breeders who have adapted to changes sometimes through horrible experiences with things they thought was right. We all are going to make mistakes and sometimes take things the wrong way even the best of us.

I can't recall whom it was but one of the more experienced breeders and owners at one point didn't realize until after the fact that they helped potentially in the death of one of their hedgehogs. They had bought mealworms from the same place for awhile and noticed afterwards that they were kept under a leaky aquarium and helped make them go rancid/bad and may have been a cause in the death. This is just how focused and alert and aware you must be cause things of the simplest manner can have an effect on our beloved hedgehogs and us owners and breeders alike here are dedicated to trying to give people the best information possible. I can say some people come here and leave because they don't always want to listen, in fact we have had quite a few in the past few weeks that worry me about the hedgehogs that will go home with them if they don't realize that we're not trying to come down on or make anyone feel bad, we want what is best for all hedgehogs and ultimately that will benefit the owners


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## shaelikestaquitos (Feb 2, 2010)

ourico said:


> I thought Heavenly Hedgehogs was a good breeder to get a baby from... :| maybe not...


HH are a good breeder, but their website has been out of date for a few years now.

The thing about heat lamps/warming the cage is that SOME hedgehogs tend to be EXTREMELY temperature sensitive. I admit that I got away with not having a heating device for a good 4 months after I got Kashi... but that was during the summer... there were nights when he was less active as it was colder... The CHE lamps, etc are a safety measure for in case it gets too cold. Technically they don't NEED it to survive, but it's better to be safe than sorry.

I think people have their preferences for water bottles/water bowls. I know even Hurricane Hedgehogs (one of the most respected hedgehog breeders in the US I believe) uses water bottles. Both have pros/cons, but most people on this forum prefer the bowls. Once again, it's better to be safe than sorry.

Wood shavings are okay, but often times they can harbor mites, and with the boys sometimes it can get stuck on their penal sheath. Some people on this forum do use wood shavings or other paper based materials. It's not really frowned upon to use these types of shavings. Most people just prefer fleece because it's less messy and prettier.

Cat/dog shampoos are for the most part safe, as HH has mentioned.. but like you mentioned, it can dry out skin.

So in the end, I don't think the information is "wrong" perse, but I think it's just slightly outdated


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## snuffles (May 16, 2009)

Also watch out for tea tree oil in certain pet shampoos which is toxic for hedgehogs!


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## hanhan27 (May 12, 2011)

TWCOGAR said:


> If a breeder has never seen significant problems with their methods they usually will be a bit obstinate about things and that is nothing against them.


I think that this IS something against them, but I wouldn't decide against a breeder because their information is a bit outdated.

The thing is, most people are going to go by their experiences with their own hedgehogs. For instance, a few days ago, someone posted a picture of their cage, and in response got a lot of posts pointing things out that probably aren't the best ideas; the cage was made of wood, first of all, and the walls were maybe 7 or 8 inches high and there wasn't a lid. The owner of this cage said that their hedgehog has been in that cage for a very long time, and has never tried to escape, so they don't see what's wrong with having low walls and no lid. Now, I guarantee that if this person's hedgehog did, for some reason, escape and go missing for a day or two, they would be A) making the walls higher, B) putting a darn lid on it, or C) getting a new cage altogether. But because this hasn't happened to them, they think it's silly to worry about low walls/no lid.

If you were a breeder and used water bottles for 5 years, and never once had a hedgehog become dehydrated or chip a tooth, you probably wouldn't agree that hedgehogs should be using bowls instead because you'd have nothing bad to say about bottles.

The thing about this website is that it's not just 1 person or 1 outfit's opinion; it's a compilation of lots of different experiences from lots of different people all over the world. By going through threads and researching, you are broadening your knowledge of hedgehogs. Instead of getting information from 1 person who may or may not use a website like this, you are limited to 1 opinion on each aspect of caring for a hedgehog, whether it's what kind of food to feed, how to handle them, or even if you should use a bottle or bowl for water.

That's what makes this website so amazing. There are many different ways to approach owning and caring for a hedgehog, but by using the vast amount of info on HHC, you can chip away at the hundreds of ways you CAN do it to find the ways that you SHOULD do it - aka, the safest ways.


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## Nebular (Dec 28, 2010)

I got Norman from Heavenly Hedgehogs in December and he's perfectly happy, healthy, and has a great personality. Her site is... let's call it out-of-date.  When I picked him up, the cage he was in with his siblings had shavings, but they had water bowls. I know she's been on here since then and has started talking about using fleece.

I try to keep the room he's in (and my apartment in general) between 22C - 24C, though summer tends to make it hotter than I like some times. He's perfectly happy with those temperatures. The only heating source I use is a thermostat-controled space heater, and that's only one when my apartment starts to naturally cool below 22 (which doesn't usually happen until around the first snow fall). Now that it's summer, I don't use a heat source and instead control the temperature with the air conditioner if it gets too hot in my apartment.

I still think only 2-3 sq. ft. (before or after toys, etc.) to run around is cruel. The bigger the space you can give them, the better. I've got a 9+ sq. ft. pen for Norman and he loves running around it. Lots of room for everything he has and still lot of open floor to wander around and be a nut.


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## newfie_nurse (Apr 28, 2011)

Alot of people here do some things a little different. Remember its not always as cut and dry as right or wrong. Its more of what is *prefered or best* from the resources and information available and what people have tested with their own hedgies. some if it is pure preferance, some/alot of it yes is based on fact.
Just for example:
I know alot of people use aspen or kilen dried pine. Its not wrong, But fleece is prefered for both ease, noteably less problems with respiratory issues etc. I myself used aspen shavings but changed cause I found them messy with carpeted floors.

Water bottles are not wrong. But in saying that there have been documented issues with chipping teeth in not just hedgies but with rodents. As well the placement of the bottle is an unnatural drinking position for most animals. Head up and neck extended. But I know hedgie owners who cannot get their hedgie to drink out of anything else.

There is alot of outdated information out there as well, but I hope this helps put your mind more at ease as well ..


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## Jocelyn3113 (May 28, 2011)

Nebular said:


> I still think only 2-3 sq. ft. (before or after toys, etc.) to run around is cruel. The bigger the space you can give them, the better. I've got a 9+ sq. ft. pen for Norman and he loves running around it. Lots of room for everything he has and still lot of open floor to wander around and be a nut.


And I agree with the bigger the space the better but I would not go as far as to say 3 sq feet is "cruel" If you are taking the hedgie out all the time and keeping his cage well stocked and clean then I think that's just fine.

From what I have seen of her she seems like a great breeder. Have you seen her hogs? Asked her questions? Seen the accommodations? If so and you think they are up to snuff then why judge her biased on her website?

I got Chretien from her, someone had dropped him off at her place and told her she could "breed him if she liked" Chretien is young, with a neat snowflake colouring. Did she breed him? Heck no she had no idea where he was from, she gave him to me free of charge because she thought we were the right fit. She spent a good twenty minutes chatting with me and answering questions and even gave me a bag of cat food. (And yes it is good quality Royal Canin if I remember correctly). If I was to ever buy a hedgie I would buy one from her


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

Most breeders use shavings and pretty much have to or else carefresh for moms and babies. Many owners use shavings as well and shavings are adequate to use, they just aren't ideal. Liners are the ideal and safest cage cover. 

Bottles vs bowl is a long debated question and once again, bottles are adequate although they carry risk. Bowls are ideal. 

It is human shampoos that are drying and shouldn't be used. Dog and cat shampoos are usually moisturizing. Of course, once again, Aveeno is the ideal choice but dog and cat is okay. 

Temperature is important and should be mentioned. There are many hedgehogs that are not temperature sensitive but everyone getting a hedgehog should be aware of and have a heating source in place before they bring hedgie home. Household temperature differs between families and some keep their house very warm while others conserve heat and keep theirs at mid 60's or even less. Also, most people now turn their heat down at night because while we are sleeping, the house can be cooler but that is the time when our hedgehogs are up and active and most need the warm temperatures. 

There is a breeder here that claims his hedgehogs do not require a heat source yet I have gotten numerous emails from people with hedgehogs from him that have attempted hibernation.

Connie is great and cares very much about her hedgehogs. The majority of breeders use shavings and bottles so this is really a non issue.


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## Immortalia (Jan 24, 2009)

I think a lot of it comes down to time. 

How many active breeders have time to go through their entire website on a regular basis to change and correct stuff? Between day jobs and then caring for their entire herd, as well as the human family, there's only so much time in the day. I think if you were to call/email/pm etc her, I'm sure it'd be all cleared up and that yes, some of the info there is out of date.


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## Nebular (Dec 28, 2010)

Immortalia said:


> I think a lot of it comes down to time.
> 
> How many active breeders have time to go through their entire website on a regular basis to change and correct stuff? Between day jobs and then caring for their entire herd, as well as the human family, there's only so much time in the day. I think if you were to call/email/pm etc her, I'm sure it'd be all cleared up and that yes, some of the info there is out of date.


Exactly. A lot of people tend for also forget about their sites once they're up since it's they're mostly (or entirely) static information, or update them at random intervals. Some also don't have the technical know-how to do it themselves and may rely on friends or family to do it for them. Breeder sites are ideal for getting contact info and a quick sense of who they are. To get anything more concrete, you should contact the breeder directly.


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