# My Shelby is sick... Bloody Urine :(



## Shelbys Mom (Mar 27, 2009)

Well it started on Sunday and of course all the vets were closed and the emergency vet won't see a Hedgehog :x
So I called around Monday morning and found 1 vet that will see her but the Doctor that takes care of Hedgehogs is ONLY there on Fridays! :x :x 
So she has an appointment for this Friday and they called me in some Clavamox to hopefully help until she can see the Doctor. (Their thinking it's a UTI)

So my question is. How long does it normally take for the Clavamox to start helping?
Because I'm not seeing any difference so I'm thinking it's not a Urinary tract Infection. I think she is going to need to be spayed 

So my next question is Are there any questions I should ask the vet? or anything I should ask them to do or not to do?

By the way Shelby is eating fine and drinking fine has not lost any weight and doesn't seem to be in any pain. And she doesn't seem to mind the clavamox.

And if she does get spayed what should I expect? will she be doped up all the time? or will she hardly notice it? will she act any differently??

I'm sorry for all the questions I'm just really really worried about my baby girl


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## LizardGirl (Aug 25, 2008)

Oh, I'm sorry Shelby isn't feeling good. It seems like there is more and more cases of UTIs and uterine bleeding popping up these days.

I'm afraid I can't help with the medicine or anything, but I'd assume she'd start improving within 4 days, at least. I would take her back in to have a FNA and/or some other tests done.

I can't remember if you were interested in breeding or not (and please forgive me if you weren't, it's hard to remember who is/isn't sometimes), but I would recommend finding a vet that will see your hedgies in emergencies, odd hours, off days, and such. A mom who decides to have birthing complications Saturday night won't end well if there isn't a vet who can help! Just a suggestion.  

Hope Shelby gets better quick and makes a full recovery.


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## Shelbys Mom (Mar 27, 2009)

Thanks 

And I will be looking for some more Vet's I have been looking since Sunday.
I thought I had 2 vet's lined up. Because I've been emailing them both since I first got Shelby asking different questions. The first ones I asked were "Do you see Hedgehogs and how much is the office visit?" and they told me they did and gave me prices. but when she got sick I called and they said that she needed to see a Vet and they don't treat Hedgehogs :shock: :? :roll: And gave me the phone number to the local Zoo. Which doesn't even have Hedgehogs!

Anyway I'm going to try to find at least 1 more vet if possible.
I don't like that the vet is only there 1 day a week.
The only reason they called in the meds is because I umm.. let's say we had a lengthy discussion on how serious her condition could get without treatment... yeah that it. :? 
I'm hoping she actually does have Hedgie experience and don't come out with big thick leather gloves. :x


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## Zalea (Sep 12, 2008)

There was an HWS member who had a similar problem recently. The medication didn't start helping her little girl for so long they thought she'd have to be spayed. The theory is that it was a UTI that was so bad it took that long to start helping. I'm not sure what else they found out after they got to see the vet again, if she actually needed the spay or not, but that was the original theory. Her little girl was on Clavamox for close to two weeks before the bleeding stopped. 

Hopefully the medicine starts taking effect soon and your vet knows what she's doing. I would definitely want to take her in for more tests before two weeks goes by, so let's hope the vet does know what to do. 

For the once a week thing: does she work at another clinic during the week, and only come in on Fridays to do exotics for that clinic, perhaps? I would ask about that, and then if she's any good that way you'll know if there's another clinic that you could see her at.

Be sure to ask if their clinic will do a spay, in case it's a uterine problem. The procedure is similar to that of rabbits, so some vets are willing to perform it while some vets are not. That's something you'll definitely need to know in case it's not just a UTI. If so, do they do laser? Because you should opt for laser if they do since there's less recovery time. They will have to use an anesthetic because it's an invasive surgery, but doing laser will cut the recovery time down big time. If she ends up needing a spay, you might talk to one of the breeders here a little more about how to make things easier for her. 

Also, be sure to ask the vet how many hedgehogs she's seen (and ask any other clinics that say they treat). I found a clinic here that will see exotics but the vet has only seen "about half a dozen" and I answered more of his questions than he did of mine. So just because they will see them doesn't mean they've actually treated them (although sometimes it's okay if they're willing to learn).

I hope Shelby heals up soon without a spay! Sending speedy recovery wishes to the little lady.


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## shetland (Sep 2, 2008)

Special thoughts for little Shelby to be well.


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

If she is still bleeding when you go to the vet, have them gas her and draw some urine directly from her bladder. That is the only way for sure to tell if the blood is urinary or uterine. How much blood is there, just slight tinge of pink, or is it red blood. 

It's unfortunate you had to wait to get her in. Sometimes, they can get a uterine infection as the beginnings of uterine cancer. Treating with antibiotic will get rid of this uterine infection but the underlying cause remains. I am a very firm believer in doing the FNE immediately and finding out where exactly the bleeding is coming from so it can be treated appropriately. 

You can also start her on a urinary health food. Hills C/D is the one the vets sell and it changes the ph of the urine making it inhospitable to infection. It won't hurt her if the bleeding is not urinary, but it will help if it is. It isn't a cure though. 

I've read of a few hedgehogs who have died because the vet kept kept shoving course after course of antibiotic down their throats rather than doing the FNE. I also know of a couple cases where it was urinary and the initial antibiotic didn't work so they did a spay and the hedgehog continued to bleed. 

As they continue to bleed, they become anemic and the longer this goes on, the less healthy they are if it's determined that a spay is necessary. 

While I don't agree with the big gloves, I have no issue with a vet holding a quilly hedgehog with a small blanket. I always take a couple of blankies in case they are needed. Those quills are sharp especially to someone who doesn't own a hedgehog and is not used to them. I would much rather a vet or anyone else use a blanket than risk dropping the hedgehog. 

If she does need a spay, go for laser. She will need her wheel removed for a few days. If she has a ramp in her cage, it should be removed and if a wire cage, make it climb proof as without their wheel, sometimes they resort to climbing. She will probably not do too much the first few days afterward. If her stitches are external, you will need to watch she doesn't mess with them. My vet is awesome at stitching and the stitches are never visible but I've seen some pictures of some pretty horrible stitch jobs and I don't blame the hedgehog for bugging at them. 

Good luck at the vet.


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## Shelbys Mom (Mar 27, 2009)

> For the once a week thing: does she work at another clinic during the week, and only come in on Fridays to do exotics for that clinic, perhaps? I would ask about that, and then if she's any good that way you'll know if there's another clinic that you could see her at.


I don't really know, but I will find out tomorrow. 
I do believe they do Spay's I will make sure of it though.
I'm not sure about the Laser though but I will ask and get them to do that if she needs it. 
Does the laser cost a lot more?

I hadn't thought about asking how many they have seen. I will do that.
I'm also making a list of questions to take with me so I don't forget anything important.



> If she is still bleeding when you go to the vet, have them gas her and draw some urine directly from her bladder. That is the only way for sure to tell if the blood is urinary or uterine. How much blood is there, just slight tinge of pink, or is it red blood.


And I'm planning on getting them to do the FNE (that's where they draw the blood from the bladder right?)
And most of the time it is really red sometimes it is dark red.
And one day she didn't pee at all the whole day. The next day I put her in a warm bath (she loves bath's) and she peed 4 times, I had to empty the bath and run her fresh water because it had turned orange from the blood.

I will ask them about the Hills C/D if it is urinary.



> While I don't agree with the big gloves, I have no issue with a vet holding a quilly hedgehog with a small blanket. I always take a couple of blankies in case they are needed. Those quills are sharp especially to someone who doesn't own a hedgehog and is not used to them. I would much rather a vet or anyone else use a blanket than risk dropping the hedgehog.


 I agree with you I don't mind them being held with the blankies. Some of them are very sharp. I know my little Wicca is very sharp. So I will bring along a few extra blankies. I didn't think of doing that before. It would be a good idea anyway in case she goes potty on one on the way.

I will keep an extra close eye on her if she has surgery. I don't want her to do what my dog done (he ripped his stitches out as soon as we got him home after we had to have his tail cut off, and he was still doped up!)

Thank all of you for the thoughts, well wishes and information.
If anyone thinks of anything I'm missing please let me know.
Her appointment is at 4:00pm tomorrow, which is kind of worrying me in case she does need surgery. With it being so late.


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## hedgewawa (Apr 25, 2009)

Hi, I will be hoping that your girl gets the help she needs and recovers quickly. 

When I went to the vet with mine for mite treatment I brought them in their carriers but I also brought along a plastic bag and some washclothes incase they pooped I could wipe and have somewhere to put the dirty wash cloth. The vet did examine them on a big towel that they had ready. 

Bringing extra fleece/blankies is a good suggestion.


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## Shelbys Mom (Mar 27, 2009)

Great idea!
I will bring some wash cloths and a little bag.
Maybe some baby wipes? (we use the unscented, dye free, aloe free ones) and a little bag.
She's going to the pet store with us tomorrow to get some food. (going to pick it up before we goto the vet) So it will be her first trip to the store aswell.

*I think I'm going to need a diaper bag* lol :lol:


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

First off, I really hope Shelby gets better soon, poor girl! I'm sure she's glad to have such a great mommy, though!



Shelbys Mom said:


> *I think I'm going to need a diaper bag* lol :lol:


I think that's what my soft carrier from Nancy has turned into! Lily goes into it, and then the pocket on the side (for her trip into my college for a presentation) filled up with a small plastic bowl (for water), a small baggy of food, a baggy with a few wipes, a spare handwarmer, and a sock (for the handwarmer to go into). As I was packing it, I started giggling because it felt like I was packing for a baby.


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## Shelbys Mom (Mar 27, 2009)

Thank you very much!
I'm worrying that one of the others is going to get sick at anytime out of jealousy lol



Lilysmommy said:


> I think that's what my soft carrier from Nancy has turned into! Lily goes into it, and then the pocket on the side (for her trip into my college for a presentation) filled up with a small plastic bowl (for water), a small baggy of food, a baggy with a few wipes, a spare handwarmer, and a sock (for the handwarmer to go into). As I was packing it, I started giggling because it felt like I was packing for a baby.


Lol everyone always asks me "when are you going to have kids??" (I'm 30 and don't have any) My mom always tells them "She don't need kids, she has hedgehogs!" lol
She thinks I baby them too much. She's not an animal person. I always tell her that she loves her little Grand Hogs and just don't know it&#8230;lol


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## Immortalia (Jan 24, 2009)

Sending well wishes your way! Hope she's ok.



Shelbys Mom said:


> Lol everyone always asks me "when are you going to have kids??" (I'm 30 and don't have any) My mom always tells them "She don't need kids, she has hedgehogs!" lol
> She thinks I baby them too much. She's not an animal person. I always tell her that she loves her little Grand Hogs and just don't know it&#8230;lol


haha my mom's the same way(though she does have REAL grand kids from my oldest sister). I think, after all these years, it's finally all rubbed off on her. She now affectionately calls the white dog in my sig her "grand child". And she knows that all the animals are her grandchildren, and she's come to accept that :lol: She didn't used to be much of an animal person either, but now that both my sisters have moved back to Hong Kong, she's taken up the role of taking care of them while I'm at school.

We used to laugh, how years ago, she was yelling at us for feeding the dog scraps from the table. And nowadays, it's US telling her to stop feeding them so many treats! :lol:


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## Shelbys Mom (Mar 27, 2009)

Thanks I'm hoping it's nothing major.

My mom is the same way, she does have 3 grandsons (2 from my sister 1 from my brother)
and 4 grand hogs by me  And a grand Dog.
Even though she say's she don't like the dog she's always feeding him snacks (so much he has cute little fat rolls every where) and she even makes him a bed in the chair of the room she sleeps in everynight.
I'd hate to see what she done if she liked him... lol :lol:


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## Zalea (Sep 12, 2008)

Shelbys Mom said:


> I'm not sure about the Laser though but I will ask and get them to do that if she needs it.
> Does the laser cost a lot more?


I'm not sure how much more it costs for hedgehogs; it would really depend on the vet. For my cat, opting for laser was $20 in addition to the original surgery cost so I would assume that it wouldn't be too much more.



Shelbys Mom said:


> Thank all of you for the thoughts, well wishes and information.
> If anyone thinks of anything I'm missing please let me know.
> Her appointment is at 4:00pm tomorrow, which is kind of worrying me in case she does need surgery. With it being so late.


I would go ahead and pack all the essentials: normal food, bottle some home water, take liners/blankets/hiding spot that smells familiar, and be sure to take a hard sided cat carrier with a few changeable liners. If the vet feels that a spay needs to be done, my vet prefers to do surgeries in the morning and wants animals to be left overnight the night before to keep stress down so there's not a car ride that morning, etc. If your vet is the same way, it wouldn't hurt to have as many comforts from home available as possible.

Be sure to pack a couple extra bags/snuggle areas in case she gets carsick or goes potty on the way so you can change them. Quentin never fails to poop in one, then pee in the changed one, so I always have to take 3-4 bags if we go anywhere. (Waking her up and letting her go potty before you leave might help with that, by the way.)

Packing for a hedgehog is almost worse than packing for a baby. I have a backpack dedicated to carrier liners and travel stuff (like paper towels, wipes, PLASTIC BAGS! -Don't forget those!- , etc). I took Quentin on vacation with me recently and there were three good-sized carry bags full of stuff for him...and then my boyfriend and I jammed our clothes into one bag. 3/4 of what we took with us was definitely for our hedgie. :lol:

Best of luck for the vet tomorrow! Let's hope for the best from the test results.


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## Shelbys Mom (Mar 27, 2009)

The extra for the laser doesn't sound to bad, I will definitely go with the laser if possible and if she needs the surgery.
I didn't think about taking her house, food and all.
I'll make sure I pack those.

Thanks a lot!


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

You won't need to take food if she is going to be gassed and it's best if she not eat before it anyways. Also, don't give her any before a car ride as it can make them get car sick easier. After she has been gassed, I would not give food until she is home and completely out of the effects of the gas. 

I do not agree with Zalea's vet at all that staying at the vet the night before surgery is less stressful than a car ride. Being in a strange place with strange smells and most likely strange animal noises is going to be way more stressful on any animal than a car ride the morning of the surgery. Sending them there the night before would be the same stress level as the first night in a new home.


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## Shelbys Mom (Mar 27, 2009)

I didn't think about it that way Nancy.
I do agree with that.
I'm hoping they won't want to keep her anyway.
And if there isn't anyone there at night then I won't let them keep her.

We will be leaving here in a few hours, I don't think she has ate anything since last night, I'll take her food out of her cage just in case. I just woke her up to check on her, she will probably just go back to sleep.

I'm going to take her house with her blankie in it and just set that down in her carrier. (It's a lockable box with air holes drilled in it.) 
And I'll take a few extra blankies, her teddy bear, wipes, wash cloth, and some little plastic bags.


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## raisinsushi (Jun 13, 2009)

Good luck!

I hope everything goes well and that its nothing serious!!


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## Shelbys Mom (Mar 27, 2009)

Thank you!  

I will post an update later to let everyone know how she's doing and what the doctor says.


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## Shelbys Mom (Mar 27, 2009)

Ok well the vet visit went well.
Although the doctor didn't check her urine  I asked her about it and she said that she didn't want to put her through it if she didn't have to.
So she put her on a different antibiotic (Baytril) twice a day for a week. then I'm to call her and let her know if Shelby is improving or not, and if she is she stays on the Baytril for another week. If she's not she said we could do an ultra sound, and then a spay or just the spay.
I told her that I thought that if the antibiotics don't work to just do the spay. They don't have the laser surgery there but if I want that then she can send me to another place that does, but she don't know if they have used it on hedgehogs or not. And she also said that if she gets spayed that it would be $50 more to send off her uterus to see if there's cancer. 
Is this necessary? From what I understand, it doesn't really make any difference if she has cancer after the uterus it taken out. Am I right?

Oh and I asked about other vet's in the area that takes care of hedgie's and she gave me some names. One of them works the opposite day's then she does. (except Sunday, their both off on Sundays).
And this doctor has seen some hedgehogs before, Not very many because their not real popular around here.

And they all loved Shelby, they said she was the sweetest little girl they have met. She didn't even ball up and let all of them hold her.

And the doctor didn't use gloves she picked her up bare handed until she turned her over on her back then she got a little poked so she used Shelby's blankie.  

And Shelby went into Pet Smart with me to pick up her food and she made more friends there, they said they had never seen a hedgehog in person and had to pet her and tell her how pretty she is. 
And she pooped on me while we were in the store :?


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## Tasha (Feb 24, 2009)

Your Shelby is such a friendly little hedgie, it's lovely!

Hope the treatment works and she's feeling better soon. x


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## AAdict (May 2, 2009)

fingers crossed for Shelby - hope she makes a swift recovery - its such a worry when they are ill xx


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## raisinsushi (Jun 13, 2009)

Yay, i hope the treatment works and you have no more worries with her health!


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## Shelbys Mom (Mar 27, 2009)

Shelby and I both thank you all very much.  
I'm fixing to wake her up to give her meds to her.

And Shelby is a sweet friendly little girl, she has never nipped or bit anyone. and let's almost anyone pet her. Although some people she will raise her visor when they pet her. I guess there nervous or she just don't like them...lol

I wish all of my hedgie's had her personality.
But I love them all just the same  

We will post mor updates as the week goes!


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## Shelbys Mom (Mar 27, 2009)

Ooops I just realized that I hadn't updated this...

Anyway. Shelby stayed on the meds (Baytril) I called the vet that Friday and told them that she still had some blood but not as much so it looked as though she was improving a little.
The doctor told me to keep her on the meds and call the vet's office the next Thursday if there was any blood at all to schedule her for a spay the next day. 
By that Tuesday there was no blood what so ever, I called the vet's office and told them how she was doing and they took a message to give to Shelby's doctor when she came in Friday.
First thing Friday morning the doctor called me and I told her how Shelby was doing and she was very surprised. Both she and I thought Shelby would have to have the surgery that day.
She told me to take Shelby off the meds and keep a close eye on her and if there are any signs of the blood returning to start her back on the meds and schedule her for a spay.

Shelby is doing great!
She actually gained a few grams, she's eating great sometimes a little more then normal for her and she's just as active as she ever was.


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## gyaku (Jul 9, 2009)

That's great news congrats on that. Congrats to Shelby for pulling through


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## Shelbys Mom (Mar 27, 2009)

Both Shelby and I Thank you gyaku


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## knitfreak (Jul 17, 2009)

Yay, glad it worked out and she won't have to have surgery


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## raisinsushi (Jun 13, 2009)

WOOT! 
I'm happy for you and Shelby , i'm glad she didn't have to have surgery!


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## Shelbys Mom (Mar 27, 2009)

Thank you all very much!
She's doing great!
I'm just trying to talk her into using the wheel I made her.
She still insists on running laps in the playpen (silly girl).

She seems to be eating better and everything so I'm wondering if it had been going on for a while and just didn't show any signs.


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## shetland (Sep 2, 2008)

I hope the beautiful little Shelby is still doing well?


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## Shelbys Mom (Mar 27, 2009)

Little Shelby is doing great! Thanks shetland 

I found her asleep in her house with her little head stuck out the other day so I had to get a pic.

I thought she was awake and was looking out the door, until I touched her and she jumped.
Here's a pic of her sleeping and her little fly friend :shock: (fly friend was evicted after the photo shoot)

I love her little wrinkled up nose!


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## smhufflepuff (Aug 28, 2008)

I think I see a poopy 

Glad she's feeling better.


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## Shelbys Mom (Mar 27, 2009)

lol yep, she pooped at her door. 
She normally does that under her litter box, I guess she was being lazy :lol:

We thank you very much.
Wasabe is happier now too, she gets her playmate back! 
(I wouldn't let them play together while Shelby was sick)


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