# Dubia Roaches



## Brooke Lancelot (Jan 30, 2019)

I got Dubias today... They're pretty big thoughhhh, and the dude that sold them to me said that hedgehogs don't tend to eat them. So I got like 7 instead of a whole colony. 
I hope Igor eats them. I mean, they're bigger than the pinkies they sold.


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

What ones did you get ?? I only get medium Dubai roaches. But they can eat the adults ones, most tend to prefer the medium ones.


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## Brooke Lancelot (Jan 30, 2019)

The dude doesn't seem to know alot about animals. He just gave me Dubias and sent me on my way. I think they're adults since they're pretty big


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

Can you put a picture ?? I'll be able to tell you what ones they are if I see them


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## Brooke Lancelot (Jan 30, 2019)

I don't wanna hold them yet... Since I'm still kinda freaked out


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

Yea these look like adults.
I use tweezers when I deal with the insects. I dont wanna touch them either

Roaches like cucumber and kale too btw and carrot peelings - these also dont do brown like the apple will, just a useful tip


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## Aj.t (Jan 29, 2019)

Yeah the sad thing is that a lot of pet store employees know way less than they should about animals and their needs. And each hedgehog is different so even if the hedgehogs he’s dealt with don’t like them, Igor might LAHVE them lol. They do look a bit bigger than I’d feed, but if you freeze them there shouldn’t be any reason you can give him a whole roach and he pick it apart!


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

To be honest, they can eat them that large live might take him a two tried to get used to it though.


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## Brooke Lancelot (Jan 30, 2019)

Ok... So I gave him a roach.


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## Brooke Lancelot (Jan 30, 2019)

And... I can clarify with faith, that Igor is a bloody savage.
My word! This hog! 
I had the roach in a food dish you'd primarily use for birds, so Igor wouldn't be able to eat it out of the dish without tipping it over. 
Nor would he have found it in the first place. 
So I picked up up and put his front paws in the dish, and the roach ran under him, but Igor caught its scent... And boom
He bit it, it was quite a struggle, the roach escaped 3 times, but Igor was hot on its heels each time 😂 

Here at the 3rd time, the roach was already... Idk, oozing to death? And igor took it, went to a corner, and ate it there. Took him a solid 2-3 minutes to finish the bug, but wow did he enjoy it! 

He ate the wings and everything, ewwwwgghhh, 

And right after the massive roach, he went to his food dish to eat his mealworms. And after that, he went on his wheel 😂😂 

I really really really didn't think he was gonna eat the roach. I saw him balling up in my mind. Not going all hunter! But I'm equally proud and relieved! Now his diet can have one insect included. Even tho I cringed at the crunches. And I'm sure I'm gonna have nightmares for a bit...


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## Brooke Lancelot (Jan 30, 2019)

Thank you Ria, I'll definitely get the cucumber, see of we have Kale, and tell my gran to give me carrot peelings if she ever peels them.


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

Lol he'll get better at catching the roaches the more you offer them !! You should be happy he ate the wings some wont and then you have to pick them out the cage !!
All hedgehogs have it in them !! I bet watching him with a cricket would be so funny !! 

You can also use broccoli stalks but not all roaches eat them every time.


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## Brooke Lancelot (Jan 30, 2019)

Lmao yes, poor boy has to work for his food, but he definitely enjoyed it. Since I only have 7, now 6, I'll try to give him one a week (if they'll live that long). Next time I'll buy a bigger crate, get more egg cartons and try to start a colony since he likes them. 

Thanks for the tip! I'll ask my gran for that too. 
She use to say "oh for goodness sakes, are you going to give that to the worms again?" Now its gonna turn into roaches 😂 
Lol and my bro is so scared of the roaches.


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

Aw haha my mum is scared of all the insects which is why she wont have them live (Plus I lost a roach for like 4 months in the house😂 I found it crawling around the hallway one afternoon and I grabbed my tweezers and quickly caught it.

Well lets just say theres no way it had food in that 4 months !! They can live for ages !! Its crazy.
I put it in a small bag froze it then chucked it out, just incase it had found something like crumbs to eat didnt wanna risk it


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## Brooke Lancelot (Jan 30, 2019)

Lol "then chucked it outside". 
Lmao I don't know what I would've done if Igor refused the roaches... My mom said I must kill them if he doesn't eat them... I wasn't gonna do that. My gran suggested throwing them in a bag, and then in the garbage. 
Inhumane! But my mom was like, "feeding them to Igor is inhumane aswell" 

I'm just glad he likes them. Lmao did your mom know about the lost roach 😂😂 my mom would burn the house down and move if I lost one.


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

Umm well I sorta didnt mention it to her or anyone in the house😂 well until after I caught it because she saw me with this one loose live roach and started questioning me. She was so angry at me...


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## Brooke Lancelot (Jan 30, 2019)

😂😂😂 be happy you found it before anyone else!! Lol I would've loved to see how that played down


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

Haha I lost it in my room it went under my draws. And I think thats where it stay majority of the time otherwise sone would have seen it. I think it was just luck that I saw it in the hallway !!

My mum honestly she want to kill me for it. Then my brothers found out cause she was shouting. I wasn't spoken to for a week unless it was to say how they wish I never get Holly🤷‍♀️ They were looking so carefully incase there was more even though I told them there was only one😂


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## Brooke Lancelot (Jan 30, 2019)

Omg that's so mean! Its not holly's fault! Lol


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

No it's my fault I dropped the tub cause I was half asleep😂
But if I didnt have Holly, I'd never have had the roaches in the house to start with so they blame poor Holly.
Its okay though Holly hates my brothers anyway. And shes not very good with my mum all the time, as no matter how much I try to get my mum to bond better with Holly she just wont.


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## Brooke Lancelot (Jan 30, 2019)

She knows °^° lol 

My boy doesn't wanna bond with anyone else in the house either, but its not like anyone tries. No one else wants to even pick him up. Especially not my mom. 😂


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

Aw. See my mum will hold Holly if I've wrapped her in her fleece blanket and put her on her lap, but if Holly starts to try coming out the blanket, then my mum doesn't like it, and then she wont touch her to put her back in the blanket and when she does, Holly doesnt like it because she doesnt do it the way Holly likes, and she wont listen when I try to tell her.
Holly prefers it when I just leave her to sit on the sofa and get my mum to just keep and eye on her, Holly wont jump and she tends to just lay where I was sat until I get back then she runs up to me haha. 

I tried to get my mum to bond with Holly better, and I honestly think Holly would be happy to, but my mum gets very jumpy and nervous and Holly picks up on that, and she doesnt like it, I dont blame Holly though.

One brothers has always hated Holly, when I got her at 2 months she was just starting to quill and he was like the only who ever managed to step on the quills😂 I found it hilarious !! He just hated her the second I brought her home.

My youngest one, he did want to bond at first it was sweet. But then he got peed and pooped on and it got a little more iffy, and then Holly bit him and that was the end of that he hated her from then on too !!


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## Brooke Lancelot (Jan 30, 2019)

😂 I can't even put Igor on my mom's lap. She's starting to try and stroke his quills but he's not very cooperative. He doesn't like his quils being stroked back, and people tend to pet a hog that way, so he huffs and jumps every time, and it scares everyone. I'm the only one who can stroke his quills back once before holding him close to my chest. 

My bro is 6 years, soooo I'm not gonna let him hold Igor, and I have a reason. When he held my cousin's hog, she huffed and he dropped her, my cousin caught her in time though. So yeah, no holding Igor for him. 

My gran, ok I have to give her credit, she loves Igor 😂 she'll take a blanket, throw it over him, and hold him like that so that he can't hurt her. In the days when I'm not home, I leave Igor in her bed, and she doesn't mind sharing it with him. Now of course she can't kiss him like I do, but I don't think she'd ever want to. She doesn't even kiss me so 😂

My male cousin, the one without the hog, is scared of Igor. 
Last night, he was all macho and said he'll pick Igor up. I told him to go ahead, and when he touched Igor, he huffed, hurting him 😂 my cousin isnt gonna come near him again. 

My female cousin, the one with the hog, envies Igor's personality. She says he's alot more tame than her Lulu. Well, to be completely honest, if she'd spent half as much time with Lulu as I do with Igor, I assure you, she'll be a cuddly hog all the way. I mean, I sat with her once and she fell asleep on my chest. She's just not putting in enough effort. 

Everyone else doesn't like Igor since he does his business on them if they hold him for too long 😂 he also bit alot of people. My gran, my brother, me, my cousin (female), my uncle, and my aunt... Sooo... Yeah. He ain't easy to get along with, but I luv him! 

I'm the only one who steps in Igor's quils. T^T they're everywhere. They're like dog hair, just worse.


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

Aw, to be honest the more time they spend with the Igor the less he'll be jumpy with them. Alsooo Hedgehogs poo and pee 1. When they wake up 2 when they get scared 3 if they know it means they get to back to where they want (the 3rd one isnt as common they tend to bit more for that reason but yea)

All hedgehogs can be cuddly if they want to. You just have to put in a lot of effort.
With Holly I dont tend to use blankets or anything she likes being rested on my stomach and arm under my jumper or in my cardigan (depending on time of year) and when its to hot for her she likes to cuddle up into my side rather than on me.
Plus for the first like month or so I would spend more time with her, so she was out for cuddles a bit in the day and then in the evening but she slept cuddled up with me both times.

Your gran seems like the best one other than you with Igor.
You could help him bond a bit more if you get her to sleep with something material as a toy, put it in the cage then replace it weekly. This way he'll then be bonded to you and to her more. It could help although some hedgehogs only fully bond with one person so you never know really

My mum wouldnt touch her tonight. I gave her some carrot and she turned herself orange😂 My mum was happy to sit there laughing and taking pictures, but not to hold her while I went to get things to clean her !!


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## Brooke Lancelot (Jan 30, 2019)

😂😂 omg 
Know the shock when Igor anointed with dirt! Ew and he'll also anoint when I smell like a dog, then he smells like a wet dog. Ugh. 

Lol once I had to go sleep over at my cousin's dad's place, so Igor had to be put in his cage at 7pm, but I wasn't there, so I asked my mom and she asked my dad. Apparently Igor balled up fully when my dad picked him up and put him in his cage cause he swore and rubbed his hands together 😂 

My female cousin was also once bitten by her own girl, but she says Igor's bites is 10 times worse. He broke skin. And each time he bites me, it gets infected, so my mom says he's poisonous. 

I'll try to get my gran to sleep with one of his blankies, (since I have like 4, and I only use 2.)


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

They like smelling like weird things, holly likes smelling like carrots, broccoli and lamb 🤷‍♀️ We haven't found other things yet. 

Holly doesnt really bit me she bits my clothes we think its a comfort thing cause she tends to do it more when theres really loud noises. She only bit me badly once and that was cause I was cutting her nails and she put her head on my palm and I thought nothing of it. And then she bit me. 
Thing is you make it worse if you try to pull away, so you sorta gotta sit and wait for them to let go although I tell Holly to let go she does.
But you more likely to get broken skin and blood if you pull away/try to pull away than if you just wait for them to let go themselves.
Some hedgehogs have a harsher bit though anyway.

My mum would never put Holly away or take Holly out. Says she'd get hurt to much !!


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## Brooke Lancelot (Jan 30, 2019)

Lol yes, I've learned to not pull away when Igor bites me, but he has this... Bite, hold, leave, bite again, hold, tug, release bite... And it tears skin no matter if I pull away or not. But this bite only happens when he's really really mad at you or in a super bad mood. Others are anoint bites, and curiosity bites. 

Hedgehog saliva is sticky tho 😂


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

Wait so he bites and holds, the lets go ?? Just move whatever he bites away the first time he lets go. It'll be better for you.


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## Brooke Lancelot (Jan 30, 2019)

I try, like really, I try, but sometimes he goes to bite again the second time so quickly, I just don't have time to pull away. 
He's like a snake.


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## Aj.t (Jan 29, 2019)

Usually I can tell when Christina is ready to bite me- she TOTALLY gets “into position” and it’s usually in the space between my thumb and index finger lol
Whenever she gets real squirmy in my hands is generally a sign of annoyance so I’ll put her down a while so she doesn’t have the chance to bite. If she does chomp down, she ain’t letting go anytime soon! I’m a firm believer that an undesired behavior needs to be addressed in that moment, so I’ll give her a gentle blow in the face which almost always does the trick!


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## Brooke Lancelot (Jan 30, 2019)

My gran always says I have to hit Igor or flick his nose when he bites me. 
I'll never do that tho. If I flick his nose, it'll be broken! 

I can see when Igor's wants to bite too. He'll slowly open his mouth, and if I don't go away, then he'll strike. Biting has actually gone down alot since I first got him. Now I just get bitten when I wash his feet, trim his nails or bath him.


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## Aj.t (Jan 29, 2019)

Brooke Lancelot said:


> My gran always says I have to hit Igor or flick his nose when he bites me.
> I'll never do that tho. If I flick his nose, it'll be broken!
> .


Yeah physical punishments have been proven to have an extremely low success rate, that's why I use a puff of air. It's not gonna hurt her and it's not a loud noise (though I have used a 'yelp' on occasion) so it pretty much gets her attention right away. But, as always, shaping positive behavior is definitely the first way to go. Your hedgehog biting you a lot? Find his trigger and eliminate it so he doesn't have a reason to bite. Boom.


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## Emc (Nov 18, 2018)

I'm not a fan of blowing in an animals face as a form of punishment. All it does it teach an animal to fear you. I don't believe hedgehogs have the mental capacity to be able to learn "if i do x, y will happen". Even with dogs; blowing in their face as a "training" technique is largely frowned upon - it often _creates_ problems, often worse than the original issue at hand.

Animals bite aggressively like that for a reason. Perhaps he was tired, you smelled like food, or he was irritated - the list goes on. If he bites you repeatedly, evidently something is up; he can't communicate with you any other way, and scolding them by blowing in their faces or flicking them in the nose results in absolutely nothing other than them having a negative association with you - to the point where you're even _more_ likely to get bitten than you were before (and absolutely deservingly so!).

I'm glad to hear you dont physically scold Igor, and I think that that's awesome you don't! 
I just saw blowing/nose flicking mentioned, so wanted to add my two cents.


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## Aj.t (Jan 29, 2019)

Emc said:


> I just saw blowing/nose flicking mentioned, so wanted to add my two cents.


 clearly lol


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## Emc (Nov 18, 2018)

Aj.t said:


> clearly lol


Care to elaborate?

You're free to do whatever you want to your own pets. Just as on a forum, I'm free to add my own thoughts to a discussion, even if it's something you may personally disagree with.


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

Emc said:


> I'm not a fan of blowing in an animals face as a form of punishment. All it does it teach an animal to fear you. I don't believe hedgehogs have the mental capacity to be able to learn "if i do x, y will happen".


I don't agree with this actually to be honest. Because if they bit you and then get put away, they will learn that biting=gets put away. Which is why its a wrong thing to do. So I do believe that they can actually learn "if I do this then this will happen"

With Holly if she bites she's doing it for security because she doesn't feel like she's 100% supported, this happens mainly when I'm standing up rather than sitting down, She aims to bite just my top, and then actually catches my skin, all I have to do is say "Holly let go" and she lets go of my skin and stays holding my top. Sometimes I have screamed from the sudden main naturally, this doesn't scare her, actually she knows it as "oh I bit mum" then she'll release a bit to let go of my skin but stays holding onto my top.

This works when she's bitten other people if I say in a firm voice "Holly No. Let go" she will and then she gets extra cuddly because she knows she did something wrong. 
There have been times where she hasnt let go, so something HAS to be done because its never fun having a hedgehog bit you, so If I touch her nose, and blow lightly on her back quills (which she actually enjoys btw especially in summer) she'll let go from biting, but she knows it was bad, because my finger was on her nose.

I do this with good behaviour too, like when cutting her nails, after I do one do one foot she gets a treat, so for each foot I get done she gets a treat right after that foot is done. Funny enough I get all 4 feet done in one go. Because she't learnt "if I let you do all my feet I get 4 treats, and If I let you do less I get less treats"

So I reward good behaviour but not bad. And I let her know she was bad, in ways it wont scare her. 
They can defiantly learn that if they do x then y happens, just like other pets and humans.


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## Emc (Nov 18, 2018)

Ria said:


> I don't agree with this actually to be honest. Because if they bit you and then get put away, they will learn that biting=gets put away. Which is why its a wrong thing to do. So I do believe that they can actually learn "if I do this then this will happen"
> 
> With Holly if she bites she's doing it for security because she doesn't feel like she's 100% supported, this happens mainly when I'm standing up rather than sitting down, She aims to bite just my top, and then actually catches my skin, all I have to do is say "Holly let go" and she lets go of my skin and stays holding my top. Sometimes I have screamed from the sudden main naturally, this doesn't scare her, actually she knows it as "oh I bit mum" then she'll release a bit to let go of my skin but stays holding onto my top.
> 
> ...


I snipped the last part, because I'm talking exclusively about negative training techniques, and not positive - so i hope thats okay.

When I stated that they didn't have the capability to grasp "if i do x, then y is going to happen" I was more so referring to the use of negative training techniques. If you hit them on the nose because they bite you, all they know is that *you* hurt them, so they associate *you* with only negative experiences. The same goes for blowing in their face. They likely do not make the connection that biting = human is going to blow in my face. All they know is that you blew in their face, they (very unlikely) understand the reasoning behind it. Thus it's effectively pointless, but both are sure awesome ways to get your hedgehog to not trust you... like, at all haha. Actually, I would argue that it's a really great way to get your hedgehog to bite you more. Because they're going to learn to associate you with negative experiences, and will be even more defensive than they were previously.

I also have a hard time believing that a hedgehog is capable of learning commands such as 'let go' or 'DROP', nor do I believe that they have the ability to understand right from wrong. I'm not saying that theyre "dumb", but they are (seemingly) not of the same intelligence level of a dog or even cat. To be perfectly honest, I feel like a lot of these behaviours are being interpreted based on what humans want to believe. People have a tendency to 'humanise' their pets - and i'm not saying this is bad, at all actually - but it often leads to a total misinterpretation of behaviour. An example; you say sometimes when Holly bites you, you sometimes (naturally) scream, so Holly lets go. How do you know that she's letting go, because she recognises she bit her owner vs she was distracted by the scream?

I've been bitten by my own hedgehog like twice - I havent counted, but its certainly less than a handful of times. I can't even remember the last time she bit me. And never, ever once have I ever punished her for biting me because if she has bitten, it is *my fault* for putting her in that situation and punishing her - when she is a species who show no understanding of right from wrong - is just pointless. All it does it confuse her, scare her, hurt her, or bother her. And for what, when she doesn't understand what she did wrong? Absolutely nothing.

In anyway, like I replied to Aj.t, I understand that everyone has their own ways of disciplining their pets, and I am absolutely not telling anyone how to do things. I'm simply adding my thoughts to the table, and nothing more than that.


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