# need a lil guidance for my new hedgies



## Quills&Bills (Jul 10, 2011)

Hi. I just registered with HHC and got my first two hedgehogs tonight! Ive been researching them for a while now and got an older female (approx. 3 yrs old) and a younger female (9-10 months old) as a pair. Current names are Sonic and Knuckles.  I got them from a very nice couple who couldnt care for them anymore; they gave me all their supplies which includes: approx. 1 1/2 by 2 1/2 ft aquarium tank, wire wheel, :| sleeping hut, food, and some other items. I know the requirements and care hedgehogs need and I need to make a few important upgrades. BTW they live as a friendly pair in the 1 tank, but get along very well from what the previous owners said and through my own observations.
Im looking for advice to guide me in the right direction that covers a few topics to get my hedgies in an awesome, healthy, and happy environment. So anyways some of my immediate upgrades are going to be:
- a new cage big enough for both of them
- two new solid hedgie wheels, 
- probably a new food bowl and dish for _each, 
- fleece blankets instead of corn cob bedding
- a very accurate thermometer
- food
I have some things mapped out that are pretty much common sense: the hedgie wheels, thermometer, bedding of choice. But i could use some advice on a good cage for the two of them, and see what you guys and gals think of the food they gave me. Also any input in general is much appreciated.
-Prior to buying them I was leaning towards c&c cages but think it may be too expensive. Starting to think sterilite bins are the way to go(even 2 ster. bins put together)
-I checked a lot of the ingredients in the food and its not all good but here is
The Food list:
1. Eukanuba adult chicken formula cat food 
2. Vita Exotics hedgehog formula
3.Extreme fruit and nut small animal treats :roll: im only picking out the corn, banana, cocunut, etc for them b/c it has all kinds of nuts in it
4. Ultra Bites fruit and veggie treat
5. Ecotrition veggie puffs
6. insects and mealworms

Ill try and stop blabbering on  . Any information anyone can provide me about cage solutions, food, or any other valuable info would be great. Thanks.

-B_


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## newfie_nurse (Apr 28, 2011)

The C&C cages are great but i have seen people on her post the big bins connected by a PVC pipe . Seems to work very well and you can have a different set up in each bin.

As for the food list you have, most of it isnt good for hedgies . 
Here is a link to the dry cat foods suggested viewtopic.php?f=6&t=15
Reaper has done an awesome job on it!!! Hedgies dont eat alot of fruits and veggies, I would go buy some of the cat foods, add them in to you mix and take away all of the other stuff slowly and feed fresh fruits and veggies in a seperate dish. I myself have 4 dishes. A weighted ceramic water bowl and kibble bowl and 2 very small ceramic dishes for fresh foods and for bugs.

You should check out the nutrition part of this site. Its amazing! There are things that are toxic to hedgies and things they shouldnt have etc..These people have helpped me soo much!! I am sure the experts will be here soon and give you all sorts of info

Congrats on your two new little girls


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## CanadienHedgie (Feb 4, 2011)

Aquariums are not suitable cages for hedgehogs because they don't give good ventilation. Because you plan to keep the together, you will need to double EVERYTHING.

-Your cage will have to have a minimum of 4 square feet AFTER everything is in the cage.
-2 food dishes
-2 water dishes
-2 wheels
-2 hiding places

A C&C cage is the best option, because they cage has to be large, especially since they are living together. Bins won't be big enough, you'd have to connect many of them together. This is something that honestly should have been thought of *before* getting them.

Each wheel takes up almost 1 square foot of space = 2 square feet for wheels.
Each hide takes up almost 1 square foot of space = 2 square feet for hides.
The eating area will take up 1 square foot of space = 1 square foot for eating area.
=5 square feet of space + you need at *least* 4 square feet after everything is in, which is 9 square feet of space for the minimum.

I have a 12 square foot C&C, and it cost me around $140.

You will need a heating system. The cage must always be kept at 23-25C. It must always be the same temp, it cannot fluctuate up and down. Heating system are expensive. My cage is 12 square feet (yours should really be the same with housing two).
My Heating System:
60W Ceramic Heat Emitter (2): $54
150W Ceramic Heat Emitter (2): $62
10" Ceramic Clamp Lamp (4): $75
Thermometer (2): $26
Timer/Power Bar: $33
Repti-Temp 500R Thermostat (2): $81
=$331

Hedgehogs need to have 12-14 hours of daylight each day. It has to be the same everyday. For example: The light will go on at 7:00AM and off at 8:00PM. During this time, they will be sleeping. When the light is turned off at 8:00PM they will come out. They usually take about an hour to come out. It has to be completely dark after 8:00PM. So if they are in your room, and you will have your light on, you will have to find a way to safely cover the cage.

Fleece is the best bedding to use, get them off the corn cob asap, it molds very quickly.
You will need to get a wheel. The only safe wheels for hedgies are the Carolina Storm Wheel and Carolina Bucket Wheel.

All those foods are crap, sorry. There is a list posted above me of the good foods. 
What you want is:
Protein: 30-24%
Fat: 15% and under
First ingredient: Real meat (Turkey, chicken, duck, etc)
Second ingredient: Real meat or meat meal (turkey meal, chicken meal, duck meal, etc)

There cannot be any corn, wheat or animal by products. Don't feed to many freeze dried insects, they cause a blockaged. Live is best. Mealworms are high in fat, so don't feed to many. Crickets are really good because they are low in fat.

When switching the food:
Week 1: 1/4 new, 3/4 old
Week 2: 1/2 new, 1/2 old
Week 3: 3/4 new, 1/4 old
Week 4: All new food

Because they are different ages, you have to make sure they older female isn't weaker, or she won't be able to protect herself/run away from a fight. You need to have an extra cage just in case. At any point they may fight and they must be separated. They can and will fight to the death.

You will need to take them for a vet exam. Every time you get a new hedgie or hedgies, they should have a checkup.

Things such as thing need to have been prepared before getting a hedgie or hedgies, as well as money. Hedgehogs are *very* expensive pets to own. You'll need to have at least $300 saved for vet bills, more since you have 2. So far I've spent just over $1000, half of that was on a proper setup.


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## Quills&Bills (Jul 10, 2011)

Thanks for the input. I think that going from what their living conditions were, to what they will be tomorrow is an upgrade in itself.  Hear are some things im going to get tomorrow to immediately help my hedgies:

-A new cage=no more aquarium. I would rather build 4 sterilite bins for $50 then spend 140. i think 4 bins will be better than their current 2 sq feet of tank space
-doubling everything is a must. Maybe 2 more ceramic bowls with different foods like you said newbie. 2 wheels, an extra hiding spot, etc
-new food to start to supplement into the other crap. lol.. 
- my apt. is extrememly hot for the most part. i have a not so good thermometer that will be replaced tomorrow. the one i currently have reads 82f. my hedgies are plenty warm but tomorrow ill get back on exact temp with good thermometer. And if your wondering theyve been active and Ive been watching them closely, they are in great health and very active, also pretty friendly with me for the first night. the older one is a bit grumpier  
- the daylight, nightime thing is something in have to decide on, as well as food brands and switching over their food diet


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## CanadienHedgie (Feb 4, 2011)

Whatever cage you decide, make sure there is a bare minimum of 4 square feet after everything is in. If the cage is 82F, that is to hot. The cage needs to be 73-78. You need to cool down the cage if it's that hot. You don't want them to have a heat stroke, which they get really easily.


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## Quills&Bills (Jul 10, 2011)

ok thank you. im not sure what to do till i can get a thermometer that wll digitally read the temp. i have the air on, and an overhead blowing in the same room as them. they are slepping now


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## CanadienHedgie (Feb 4, 2011)

Also, they may seem healthy, but that doesn't mean they are. Hedgehogs are very good at hiding illness. Everytime you get a hedgehog (or any pet) they need a vet checkup. You will need to buy a scale as well, so you can weigh them, a kitchen scale. 

Since your using bins, which you'll need a lot of to PROPERLY house two together. You'll need to drill holes because they don't have good ventilation. You'll need to buy PVC pipes (4 inches) to connect the bins. You'll have to make holes big enough for the PVC to go through. It will have to be pretty exact or they could get a foot or nose stuck in the crack. 

When housing a hedgehog you need to properly take care of it (or them). There must be a minimum of 4 square feet after everything is in. That is the bare minimum. Like I said above, about 9 square feet is the bare minimum with everything in. 

Don't put a different type of food in each bowl. Put the same in each bowl or they can fight over one bowl.

The fan can't be blowing directly on them. They can't have any drafts going into the cage.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

I wouldn't stress too much about the temperature at the moment, as long as both girls seem to be comfortable... If they're splatting, have their mouth open or seem lethargic, then it would definitely need to be cooled down, but it depends on the individual hedgehog with what's comfortable. Lily does alright at 82, but she's also 3 years old and has started to need warmer temps to avoid having a cool belly. You don't want to cool the cage too much and have the lower temp throw them into a hibernation attempt. Just watch them both for signs of of being too hot.

For the sterilite bins, if you can possibly find anyplace (even online, maybe, with free shipping?) that sells the Christmas tree bins, those would work great! Keep in mind you want as much floorspace as you can get. For height, the main thing to worry about is having at least 10 inches of smooth wall so they can't escape. You may also want to think about the lids, especially if you have any other animals. A lot of people cut the middle out and replace it with screen to aid in ventilation. Four bins sounds like it could work well, you could make two of them into playrooms, maybe, with the other two having food and sleeping areas?

Also, welcome to HHC!  Once you have your new little ones settled in a bit, we'd love to see some pictures of them! And just keep looking around the forum for more information. The stickies (locked topics at the top of each section) have TONS of info in them that can help a lot when you're just starting out, and another member here, LizardGirl, wrote a fantastic book, which you can find a free download for here! http://www.hedgehogbook.webs.com/


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## Quills&Bills (Jul 10, 2011)

thank you. im in the preocess of buying supplies and everything. they have been sleeping for about 12 hrs now but when i go to check on them they r immediately alert and get all huffy for waking them up  . tonight maybe i can post some phtos once the setup is done


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## hanhan27 (May 12, 2011)

Welcome to HHC!  We will be expecting pictures of your two new little ones!  We are picture fanatics, lol.

Building a C&C cage will be cheaper than buying 4 bins and making 4 lids. The biggest bin I could find at WalMart was a 28"x19", and it was $15 on sale. So $15 x 4 = $60. Add in the PVC pipe to connect them and you're probably pushing $80. I built a 2.5x3.5 foot C&C cage for $45 total. C&C cages are very simple to make, and are preferred over bins. 

If you do decide to go the more expensive route with the bins, make SURE you drill a couple sets of holes about 7 or 8 inches up the sides. Ventilation is hard with the bins.

Also - DO NOT FEED THE ULTRA BITES TREATS. Sorry for the caps lock, I just want to make sure that you see this. They have raisins in them, and grapes are toxic for hedgehogs. I have seen these treats being sold at pet stores and online and I am continuously informing people selling them that grapes are TOXIC to hedgehogs. Don't feed these to your new little ones.

CanadienHedgie said that the only safe wheels for hedgehogs is the Carolina Storm Wheel or Bucket Wheel, but that isn't necessarily true. If you are handy, you can make your own wheel with a cake pan lid or a bucket and PVC pipe. If not, buy one from LarryT. 

As far as the temperature in your house goes, 82 degrees may be too warm for your hedgehogs, but it really just depends on their preference. My hedgie likes her temp between 77 and 81 degrees. Some hedgehogs are more sensitive to heat. Just pay close attention to how they act.

Vet appointments are a must, but I would wait at least a couple weeks to take them in. That gives them time to settle into their new home, and to start trusting you a bit. You don't want to stress them out too much in the first week or two. 

Congratulations on your hedgehogs.  They are really fun little animals


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## Quills&Bills (Jul 10, 2011)

getting kinda frustrated but trying not to...
so, the first thing i bought today was an indoor digital thermometer. it reads humidity and degrees. its 45% humidity and 82degrees F in my apt. I think i should buy a ceramic tile to cool them off if they get too hot. they seem to be doing good and have been sleeping most of the day. food and water levels are going down so i know they are eating and drinking. i know both the humidity and heat are high but have the air conditioner on full blast in my living room. i have a hot place but they dont seem to mind. ill wakre them up in a few hours to play at night and get them used to me

then the cage..... :| . not as easy as i wanted it to be. went to home depot today and bought 3 HUGE sterilite bins and some pvc. for some reason i still want to use a c&c cage but cant find the materials. i took sonic and knuckles out of their small tank and put them in a bigger sized wire cage i had from before. its a start i guess...

also bought a big 12" comfrot wheel from petco to upgrade from their small wire wheel.

i need to run back out and get fleece blankets,. a ceramic tile, and more.


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## hanhan27 (May 12, 2011)

Don't be frustrated! I know it can be overwhelming trying to get everything you need when your little ones are already home, but you did the right thing by coming here. You are off to a good start by asking us for help!  

Ceramic tiles work great to help cool them off. I also know of a couple people that use those terra-cotta plant pots for a place for hedgies to cool off. I'm not sure about prices for the tiles or the pots, but I can't imagine either being more than $4 or $5.

I have heard good and bad things about the comfort wheels, but they're definitely better than a mesh wheel. I think the main negative thing I've heard is that they can tip over, so just make sure you secure it to the side of the cage somehow so the hedgies don't tip themselves over.

Are you in the US or Canada? If you're in the US, Target should be the first place you look for the cubes. I got a box of cubes there for about $17, and had 1 cube left over after I made my cage (it's 2 cubes wide by 3 cubes long, and has cubes on the top as a "lid"). I then went to google and typed in "sign stores near Madison, WI" and found a couple different places. I called around and asked each of the sign stores if they have coroplast. One of them did, so I ordered a sheet of it from them. A lot of places will measure it out for you, too, so if you find a place that has coroplast, ask them if they can measure and/or cut it to size. I got my 4ftX8ft sheet for $15, which is the average price for that size sheet.

I'm not sure if you've heard of splatting, but splatting is what hedgehogs do when they are too warm and want to cool off. They lay on their stomach with their legs out. It looks cute, but it's something you should watch for until you figure out what temp your hedgies are comfortable at. If they're showing signs of being too warm, maybe try moving their cage to the kitchen or bathroom floor. The cooler floor may help cool them off.

Props to you for wanting to be informed and being prepared to giving your hedgehogs everything they need. There are a lot of people out there who keep their hedgies in terrible living conditions because they just don't know how to take care of a hedgehog properly.

If you have more questions, don't be afraid to ask.


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## CanadienHedgie (Feb 4, 2011)

I live in Canada, I don't know where you live, but Canada and the US have some of the same stores. I bought my cubes from Walmart for $19.97 each, and I bought my coroplast (corgulated plastic) from Home Depot for $25ish. 

You can buy the cubes from:
Zellers, Target, Walmart, Costco, Rona, Home Depot, Canadian Tire, other home hardware stores should have them as well.

You can buy the coroplast from:
A sign store, Rona, Home Depot, Home Hardware, and probably Co-op Building Center.

When looking for coroplast, it might be under corgulated plastic or plexiglass. I went to Home Depot and asked for corgulated plastic, and they had no clue what I was talking about. So I asked if they had any plexiglass then (which is expensive stuff), and they took me to it. The coroplast was right beside the plexiglass... :roll: 

The coroplast has to be 8" high. If you buy the cubes, make sure you get the ones with nine squares across, because the squares are to big on the other ones. You'll need a lid, so they can't get out. 

Are you going to buy an extra wheel? That wheel falls over easily, so you'll want to zip tie it to the side of the cage. It is also loud, but putting a scrunchie on helps.


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## Quills&Bills (Jul 10, 2011)

thanks everyone. im trying my best. to answert the first question i dont believe they are splatting. they are actually all snuggled up in blankets and stuff. thaqnks fr the wheel info, ill tie it to the cage for now. ill get another one sometime soon but dont want to overwhelm them with everything going on. trying to wake them up and get them to eat. their eating is kinda random and hard to keep track of since there are 2 of them and this is day 2 for me. and i havnt seen them pee yet at all.


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## Quills&Bills (Jul 10, 2011)

on another note:
believe me, ive tried to do all reading i can for over 2 months but if someone could give me a ratio of food and what kinds that would be great. by that i mean, is it like 75% cat food, 15% hedgie food, 10% fruit, veggies and insects? or am i way off. maybe like 60% cat food, 20% hedgie food, 15% fruit and veggies, 5% crickets and mealworms?

anything like this with percentages or daily intake would help, i feel lost..


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## shaelikestaquitos (Feb 2, 2010)

Quills&Bills said:


> on another note:
> believe me, ive tried to do all reading i can for over 2 months but if someone could give me a ratio of food and what kinds that would be great. by that i mean, is it like 75% cat food, 15% hedgie food, 10% fruit, veggies and insects? or am i way off. maybe like 60% cat food, 20% hedgie food, 15% fruit and veggies, 5% crickets and mealworms?
> 
> anything like this with percentages or daily intake would help, i feel lost..


Cat food should be their primary diet. What type of hedgehog food are you feeding? Most hedgehog foods out there are not very good for hedgehogs. For the veggies and insects, it depends for each hedgehog. Most people give it as a snack, so once a day. For the insects it depends on your hedgehog's activity level. A hedgehog that exercises a lot may eat up to 15 mealies per night, while one that is less active will usually be given around 5 or 6.

It all depends on the hog, so you must find your own balance


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

Try not to stress out too much. Just take a breath and relax and know that you're off to a good start. Your two girls sound like they're already in better hands with you.  

Sounds like you've got some of the stuff covered already. At least one good wheel in there, bigger cage, and you said you're getting fleece blankets and a ceramic tile. If the cage they're in now isn't big enough for two wheels, don't mash both of them in there, since it'd give them less room to maneuver around each other. I would think they'll be fine long enough for you to make their new bigger cage, whether it ends up being bins or a C&C. Comfort wheels will work great for them for now, just watch their feet. Sometimes the ridges can bruise their feet a bit and cause tiny cuts if they run a LOT. Comfort wheels are the best wheel to get from a pet store though. 

With food, Shae is right. Most people on here feed primarily cat food, with the fruits/veggies/insects being treats. Hedgie foods are only sometimes used in a mix, and most people prefer not to use them at all since most are crap, and even the okay ones don't have the best ingredients. Food is an intimidating topic though! For now, I'd suggest just finding one good food off the cat food list and concentrate on switching them over from the food they have now. Once you have them on one good cat food, you can start slowly introducing more one at a time, until you have a mix that you like. For switching them, you need to go slowly, adding in more and more of the new food over a couple of weeks. The treats that came with them, none of those are really that great, so personally I'd throw them out. If they've already been introduced to them, you can continue giving crickets and/or mealworms for treats. Other than that, I'd hold off on introducing new foods like fruits and veggies until you have their cat food all settled. By then I think you'll be a bit less frazzled with trying to get everything right and you can have fun with trying new veggies and fruits with them.


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## Quills&Bills (Jul 10, 2011)

thank you kelsey and shae. so a quick update, as this is now my most used website  

-they got up about an hour ago after i kinda checked in on them and out them in a play pen. they walked around a bit. explored my new fleece blankets, hand towels, t.p. roll, new hedgie wheel. they didnt try the wheel. they ate a bit and drank enough to satisfy me. i gave them a new mix of food. this mix is in one dish and they about 2/3 of it between the two. it is mostly the cat food they provided me( for a few more days till i introduce some new stuff) w/ a little hedgehiog formula and some selective dried fruits. knuckles seems to love coconut and banana. sonic(the older gal0 eats it all. they also got 2 mealwroms each. then they went back to sleep!.

as i said before, they have now been with me for about 24 hours and the temp hasnt gotten below 80F. its currently at 84  i have the air conditioning on, a circulating fan, not on them but in the same room, and a ceramic tile under one part of their cage. they seem to be fine thouhg. No splatting, and LOVE to snuggle in blankets. if they were two hot wouldnt they either: have their tongue out panting, be splatting, or not be snuggled in a million warm blankets?

heat and cage situation are the 2 reasons im stressed out. and i go back to work tomorrow so i wont be home from 9:30am-7pm


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