# Still losing weight...



## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

Lily's been on her meds for her yeast infection for 21 days now. She's supposed to be on them for 30 days, so we still have just over a week left. She's been a good girl about taking the meds, and will take them from the syringe, so I haven't had to resort to any trickery. :lol: Her poop hasn't really been super green or anything, and she's still been eating somewhat, though less than she normally does.

Normal eating habits: 7-10 crickets, 5-7 mealworms, 1 tablespoon of baby food mix, and 10-20 kibble (depending on how many bugs she's gotten that night, or how much of the baby food she ate)
Current eating habits: 6-7 crickets, 6-8 mealworms, 1 tablespoon of baby food mix (has only been eating about 1/2 most nights), and usually around 10 kibble.

So it still seems like a decent amount of food, all considered, even if it's less than usual. That's why I haven't considered syringe feeding more seriously.

However...She's still losing weight. Before I left on my trip on 8/11, she was around 475 grams. When I got home on 8/19, she was down to around 460, I assumed from stress of being in a new place and me being gone. This was when we found out about the yeast infection and started those meds. She continued to drop to 450 (8/28), then down to 440 (9/3), and now tonight, she's down to 430. This is 60 grams under what the vet said her ideal weight is, at 490 grams.

I know she's had a lot of stress this past month, between me being gone, being moved out to Wildside, going with me to my aunt's (though she's been there several times), etc. She's seemed to be settling back in at my house well, except for the continued weight loss.

Should I schedule a vet visit to get her in and get an opinion from my vet? Earliest I could do it would probably be next Friday. Should I try syringe-feeding her A/D or something like that for extra calories and see if it boosts her weight? I have a puppy food with 16% fat (all of her regular foods are 12% or lower) to start adding to her mix, but I'm not sure when to start adding it yet, since I don't want to continue to stress her out with changes. I'm just getting anxious about her, especially looking at her and seeing that she's starting to look like ) ( from so much lost weight.... :?


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## Rainy (Jul 27, 2011)

Oh. Sorry Lily isn't feeling tip top yet. 

I would try to get more fat into her. Try feeding the A/D as a treat if she eats by herself. Can you back off of the low fat crickets and give her more kibble and mealies? Does the wet food you offer her higher in fat than her kibble? I don't know about the dog food. I've never tried it, nor asked about it.

Also, I would call Cedar Creek and ask them what they think. Talk to the one who has seen her and ask if it is normal for her to be dropping weight while she's on meds. It might be a side effect of the medicine, but the doctor should be able to answer whether you should bring her in, or whether the loss is normal with the meds and she'll rebound when she is off of them.

Best wishes. HUGS. Give Lily cuddles from us.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

Thanks Rainy.  I have tomorrow night off, so I'm probably going to get her out for more snuggles, so I'll definitely pass on the cuddles from you then. 

I also realized just after posting this that next Friday, the earliest I could take her in, will be right around the time she finishes her meds, so I think I might call tomorrow and see if I can get an appointment with Dr. Nolan for next Friday afternoon/evening. She's supposed to go in at the end of her meds anyway, and then I can ask them about her weight and get some advice from them about it. 

I don't actually have any A/D yet, I'll have to see if I can get it from my dog's vet or from Cedar Creek. I feel like I've asked my dog's vet about it before and they didn't carry it. Not sure where else I could get it if they don't...Perhaps other vet clinics around here would sell it to me even if I'm not a customer of theirs? I tried switching her baby food mix to some plain wet food one night, but she didn't eat much of it, and she'd been eating more of her baby food, so I went back to that. I might try mixing them together a bit though. I was hoping not to back off on crickets too much, since she likes going around her cage and finding them so much, but I think maybe I better. I'll try back down a couple more and leaving the puppy kibble as treats instead, maybe that'll encourage her to try it. If I have any more mealie aliens, I could leave those in her cage as well.

Thanks for the ideas! I've just never had the problem of trying to get a hedgie to put weight ON instead of off! :lol:


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## Rainy (Jul 27, 2011)

Poor Lily. Smother her with smooches.  And please let me know how it goes with Derek next week.


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## Kalandra (Aug 25, 2008)

Seems to me like there is a decrease in her kibble. Is she showing any reluctance to eating the kibble. Any signs in her face that it may be getting hard to crunch? Has doc looked at her teeth?

Look at her weight chart, is there a slow decline over a long period of time? Perhaps even before she got sick? Do you track her wheel usage? Has it declined recently?


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

I know she'd been decreasing a bit this spring/early summer, but I was also changing her diet to include regular baby food, crickets, and mealies, and hiding crickets, so I figured that part of the weight loss was due to more movement and the baby food veggies. She still stayed around 480 grams even then. I had the vet check her mouth one of the last few times we've gone and they said her teeth look great. There was a bit of plaque on her back teeth, but not much and he said that was normal. I haven't noticed any particular aversion to her kibble, or seen that she's had any more trouble than usual chewing it up. She still tends to eat all of her favorite, which is the chunky-looking Solid Gold X's, the biggest ones out of her kibbles.

The main portion of steady weight loss started just before the vet visit for her bacterial infection and continued from there. I know the antibiotics from that infection made her tummy feel icky, and she had lime green poops then. Her poops haven't been that bad with the meds for this yeast infection.

I don't keep track of her wheeling, though I know she wasn't running on it from when I got back from my trip until we were at my aunt's house. She's been running on it a bit again, though I'm not sure how much. 

Can you think of anything I should ask the vet to check besides teeth when we go next week? Anything that maybe we should look at or test for? I'll be asking him for ideas, I'm just afraid to miss something because I didn't think it was important, or forgot to ask. I'm going to try spending more time with her this weekend/week and see if I can notice any unusual changes or quirks in her behavior. It's entirely too possible that there's something I haven't noticed since I haven't been able to get her out for more than a quick check-over, "hello", and giving her her meds and mealies.


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## Kalandra (Aug 25, 2008)

I'd make a summary of her weight loss and activity levels and would tell him all about them. I'd ask him to do a good feel around on her, feeling her lymph nodes in her neck.

I'd probably reduce the baby food and encourage her to eat more of her kibble. If she will eat it moistened, try that to see if she increases her appetite. I can tell you the solid gold does not moisten well, it disintegrates into a gooey mess that my hedgehogs won't eat (good for syringe feeding, bad for trying to get them to eat a softer kibble). Innova holds it shape very well. Increase the amount of the kibble that has the highest calorie content. If she eats higher fat foods and continues to drop weight, or the weight loss increases, take her in and talk to doc about the weight loss. 

Hopefully she just needs time to settle down and all will be well again. She's had an awful lot going on lately. However, my questions are targeted at either her jaw is weakening from her age, she has a tooth problem (or some other mouth issue) or the possibility of cancer. Lymphoma and/or leukemia both have symptoms that are difficult to diagnose. Slow, gradual weight loss, reduced activity levels and in the case of leukemia a weakened immune system that allowed infections to become a chronic problem (all symptoms I've seen in mine).

Hopefully this isn't what is going on with her, but it is something you may want to discuss with doc.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

Thanks Kalandra. I'm keeping all my fingers crossed that it's been mainly stress-caused and from her infections/meds. I just got an appointment with Dr. Nolan for 3:00 pm next Friday, so I'll get a summary chart or something written up on the weight loss, food/activity levels, and related events before then, as well as keeping a close eye on her for this week. I'll try reducing/removing the baby food and softening her kibble too. I think I might have a Wellness Healthy Indulgence packet up there, so I might try offering some of that as well. Maybe these changes will at least steady out her weight between now and next Friday, or maybe even bump it back up a bit...If it does, hopefully that'll be a good sign. I'll get Dr. Nolan's opinions on the things you mentioned as well. Thank you so much for your advice/opinion. This is all freaking me out, but it's good to have some idea of what to ask about or have checked.


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## Rainy (Jul 27, 2011)

Just a thought. I had a cat with an overactive thyroid, which caused weightloss. Just something to ask about. My cat was also getting nausious and vomitting too at times.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

Thanks for the added idea, Rainy, I'll put it on my list of things to consider! I went to work at Wildside this morning and discussed Lily with the woman who runs it, Louise. I found out that she had tried butterworms with Lily while I was gone (something that she'd known was fine with me, btw, I'd mentioned wanting to get some to try with her) and Lily had absolutely loved them. She told me where she got them, so I think I'm going to get a container, and possible one of waxworms as well. Both are even fattier than mealies, so maybe having 1-3 of those a night as special treats might help her weight as well. I was also telling her about my troubles of getting mealworms from pet stores, and that I was starting to consider ordering 1000 online to start my own farm. Louise, upon hearing this, just gave me an entire big bowl that has lots of mealworms, and some aliens and beetles in it, so that I'll have some mealworms to feed Lily and some beetles to get started with laying eggs right away. They raise them to feed the songbirds they get in during the spring/summer, but with winter coming, they won't be getting many birds to feed anymore, and she said she has so many containers that it'd be fine if I took these. I must've thanked her about ten times before I left! :lol: This is hopefully the end of my mealworm troubles.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

Hey guys, finally have an update.

Lily and I went to the vet today, to see Dr. Nolan. I have definitely decided that I'm going to ask for him from now on. I've given the other vets a chance, but he's the best at handling her, and I'm pretty sure Lily likes him better as well. She'll go into a tight, quilly ball with the other two vets we've seen, and though she'll ball up a bit with Dr. Nolan (such as when he was checking her mouth), she doesn't get nearly as upset as she does with the other two. 

He thought her skin was looking much better, and saw a couple of small quills starting to come back in, even though she's still pretty bare. He was able to remove the ingrown quill that I'd noticed before her last visit too, so that'll feel better for her now too. He thinks her weight loss was due to the antibiotics from the bacterial infection and the anti-fungal meds for the yeast infection both making her tummy upset. I knew the antibiotics would, but didn't know the anti-fungals might as well. He suggested giving her probiotics over the weekend and seeing if her appetite improved. I'm supposed to be calling Monday/Tuesday next week (or he might call me, can't remember which) to let him know how she's doing, so that if it's not helping, we can figure out another course of action.

The other thing besides how well Lily gets along with him that's sold me on him is what you've mentioned, Rainy. He's so willing to answer any/all questions, and he's really helpful. I brought up the baby bearded dragon I'm taking care of from work right now, asking how much a beardie exam is, and telling him about the baby's situation. He listened to all of it, said I was right on with the set up and everything I'm doing, and said that he didn't think the baby even needed an exam anyway, since he's too small to do anything, and it sounds like he's slowly doing better. He was great at answering all my questions though, and he even gave me some liquid calcium to make sure the little guy is getting enough.  I was a bit surprised he was so willing to answer my questions about a completely different animal than the one he was examining. :lol:


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## Rainy (Jul 27, 2011)

I'm so glad that the visit went so well and Lily is showing progress. Derek is awesome. I'm glad the little beardie is improving too.

What are probiotics, btw? What do they do and are they just for sick animals? "Pro" makes it sounds like a preventative medicine.....?

I hope Lily's eating improves. I got some of that Halo Spot Stew that you were talking about for Lily because of the lower protein than most moist foods and the higher fat (Izzy and Harvey both need to gain). WOOF! That stuff stinks! How do you know when it goes bad? Opening a fresh can smells horrid! I got some Lamb and Chicken, started transitioning last night from cat lovers soul. Harvey annointed or rolled in it -- not sure which. Still can't believe the places they can annoint. They both loved it, but I'm not a big fan, that's for sure. Pew! :roll: 

Please keep us updated on how Lily is doing. New quills!!!!! YAY!


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## shawnwk1 (Jul 8, 2011)

glad she is doing better. one thing to keep in mind is that i noticed you said you were giving her baby food? what kind of baby food are you giving her? a lot of baby foods have powdered onion and garlic in them which can be toxic for hedgies and other animals so you have to make sure you are getting a kind without any in it. i know the turkey one is okay as it's the one the pet internal specialist told me to use when my kitten was sick before he passed because it was safe and didn't have those in it. baby food is ok to give hedgies as a treat or in times of illness just be careful what kind you are giving.


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## shawnwk1 (Jul 8, 2011)

oh and make sure its a stage 2 (i believe) baby food.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

Rainy said:


> I'm so glad that the visit went so well and Lily is showing progress. Derek is awesome. I'm glad the little beardie is improving too.
> 
> What are probiotics, btw? What do they do and are they just for sick animals? "Pro" makes it sounds like a preventative medicine.....?
> 
> ...


Probiotics are good bacteria that help get the stomach back into good digestive shape. They can help stomach bacteria recover after getting antibiotics (which kill both good and bad bacteria), for both animals and humans. I have just human acidophilus that I got at the store. I gave her some while she was on antibiotics, but didn't think the anti-fungal would have the same effect.

I haven't actually tried the the Halo Spots Stew myself yet, so I'm afraid I can't help much! Your story reminds me of MissC and Snarf rolling in beef liver cat food. :lol: I know a couple other people on here have already used that kind of food, but I can't remember who... And I'll definitely keep you updated!



shawnwk1 said:


> glad she is doing better. one thing to keep in mind is that i noticed you said you were giving her baby food? what kind of baby food are you giving her? a lot of baby foods have powdered onion and garlic in them which can be toxic for hedgies and other animals so you have to make sure you are getting a kind without any in it. i know the turkey one is okay as it's the one the pet internal specialist told me to use when my kitten was sick before he passed because it was safe and didn't have those in it. baby food is ok to give hedgies as a treat or in times of illness just be careful what kind you are giving.


I just give her whatever kinds I find that have safe veggies, fruit, etc. in them. I've given her kinds that are from all stages, haven't seen a reason to distinguish between stages. I remember some topics posted awhile ago about concerns about the garlic powder, but HedgeMom said here - viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2620&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=garlic - that cooked garlic isn't a problem, so I haven't really worried about it since then. I haven't had any issues with her and her baby food yet. She was getting it every night for awhile and did fine with it.  Only reason I've stopped now is so she can gain weight back. I might start giving her a small amount again once I get her back to a good weight, so she can get her veggies back.


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## shawnwk1 (Jul 8, 2011)

its not cooked as in boiled or fried or whatever that may make it less toxic, garlic/onion powder is made from baking and grinding raw garlic/onions so all the nutritional value is still inside of the powder it is not cooked out like it would be if it was boiled so personally i don't wanna risk it for my little ones.


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