# Retired Breeder



## taylors hedgie (Oct 8, 2014)

So, I was holding out on buying my hedge until I had everything set up. That will be after Christmas. My "local" breeder is 2 hours away, and she is the closest. Her babies are all 350, but some older ones are a bit cheaper. I was waiting to get one that was 120, born in April. I checked her website last night and found out that almost every single hedge has been reserved, save for some expensive babies and a few retired breeders. The breeders are all around two years old and significantly cheaper (about 150 ish). My question is, should I get a breeder, will they bond with me? Or should I hold out even longer and wait on a younger one to become a bit cheaper.


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## DesireeM81 (Jun 14, 2014)

I think it's great to get an adult hedgie. You are providing a warm and loving home to an adult and they don't sell as fast. I bought two adults in August and one has bonded with me greatly. The other one we are working on it. However, I also have(had) two babies and one likes me and the other doesn't. It all depends on the hedgehog really. 

Also, those hedgehogs are super expensive. :shock:


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## Soyala_Amaya (Aug 1, 2011)

It does seem like the (human) breeder in question is a little over priced. I think the average price range is 150-250 for babies. It always depends on gender (females are more rare), color ("picturesque" hedgie are more), things like that, but a starting price of 350 just seems extreme.

Anyway! Beyond that! An older hedgie can be perfectly fine, my first one was (though not quite that old). He was an angry, moody, health issue prone little monster. I loved him with all my heart and soul.  He did bond, deeply, with me, even if he wanted to set the rest of the world on fire. I loved taking him out in the backyard where he ranged in his play area for several minutes at a time, then run back to my side to use me as a courage touchstone. 

Sometimes the hedgie that you find just turns out to be the hedgie that you need. Go with what your heart tells you!


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## Tongue_Flicker (Jun 11, 2013)

This is actually the first time I've seen hedgehog prices over there. Whew! I don't check classifieds for obvious reasons so i had no idea they go that high. You guys would be so sad if you knew that guinea pigs cost more here than hedgies. Poor babies


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## taylors hedgie (Oct 8, 2014)

Okay. So what I've gathered is; 1. My breeder is way to expensive, and 2. It will bond with me. Thanks for the input guys.

I found one that is 160 and was born in November of 2012 is that to old? I won't be able to get it until January, so I'm concerned. But if I do get her, I'll have about 200 dollars for my set up which will be nice.

BTW here is the link to the site. The Hedgies name is cossette http://www.tranquillhedgies.com/Tranquill_Hedgies/Available_Hedgies.html


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## Prickerz (Sep 17, 2014)

Ummmm it's not too old, you will still have about 2 years. BUT the prices do raise a flag for me. Why are these hedgehogs so special? Does she give you a health gurantee? She sure has alot of hedgehogs... I don't know, if I were you i'd ask for pictures of their living conditions right now and ask why she is doing it- for the animal, or for the cash? She is probably the only breeder around for hours, huh?


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## taylors hedgie (Oct 8, 2014)

She does have a health guarantee, but not on breeders. I've browsed her site a bit and it seems legit. I have sort of been wondering about the prices also, but I don't want to just out right ask why they're so expensive.


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## DesireeM81 (Jun 14, 2014)

Honestly, the place I got my two older girls were about that expensive. I'm wondering if it is the same place. My girls were both close to a year and one was 250 and the other was 300. These were not babies, mind you. However, I had my girls shipped and the price of that was nothing compared to the price of the hedgehogs. :lol:

If you wouldn't mind, PM me the breeder and I can tell you if I bought from them. Actually scratch that. I doubt it's the same breeder. The people I got my babies from still has plenty of babies available. Although she is just as expensive.


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## Purranah (Nov 12, 2014)

Wow, expensive little hedgehogs!! Haha.

I would make sure to ask lots of questions before getting one of her hedgehog because, it seems, she does have a rather large amount of them and they're super expensive. Y'know, better safe than sorry, right?

One thing that's bothered me is that she says she uses a pine based bedding. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that bad for hedgehogs?


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## Prickerz (Sep 17, 2014)

Pine bedding is awful for all small animals, yes. She should be using fleece liners, carefresh, or- if she REALLY wants to use wood chips- then cedar. 
Being that the hedgehog is older, I would be concerned about a breathing problem


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## Soyala_Amaya (Aug 1, 2011)

No no no, cedar is the WORST thing to put in your hedgies cage. It can kill them. Pine can be all right if it's kiln dried to get rid of all the oils and resins. Larger chips are actually better than smaller shavings because there's less dust.

It is not optimal bedding, but not horrible. DO NOT USE CEDAR.

http://www.hedgehogcentral.com/bedding.shtml


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## taylors hedgie (Oct 8, 2014)

Purranah said:


> Wow, expensive little hedgehogs!! Haha.
> 
> I would make sure to ask lots of questions before getting one of her hedgehog because, it seems, she does have a rather large amount of them and they're super expensive. Y'know, better safe than sorry, right?
> 
> One thing that's bothered me is that she says she uses a pine based bedding. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that bad for hedgehogs?


I'm not being contrary, but where did you see the pine bedding thing? And also, what kinds of questions should I ask? I was going to see about the food they ate, the attitude of the specific one I wanted, and there habbits and any medical history. Is there anything else I should ask about?

I thought she seemed legit, but I guess I just got caught up in the excitement of being so close to owning my first hedge.


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## AlexandPersephone (Nov 14, 2014)

You guys are mixing pine and cedar up. Pine is semi safe cedar is toxic to everything.


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## sc2001 (Oct 12, 2014)

Pine can cause some issues if it isn't cured or kiln. It can cause some respiratory irritation. 

I would honestly say to avoid it... Just to be safe.

If you want a wood based bedding, aspen is the safest option


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## Purranah (Nov 12, 2014)

taylors hedgie said:


> Purranah said:
> 
> 
> > Wow, expensive little hedgehogs!! Haha.
> ...


In her "essentials and accessories" it mentions that you should buy a bag of "large pine wood chips". Usually, a breeder would recommend what they use. 
You should also ask for pictures of their living conditions, like someone else said, and ask for a pedigree as well. 

If you do end up getting that hedgehog, she might have some issues because of the pine, or she might not. Just make sure you use something like a fleece liner, or care fresh?


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## DesireeM81 (Jun 14, 2014)

I seriously doubt you will have issues with the pine bedding. If she is using it then it is what she is going to suggest. You don't have too. Feel free to use fleece or care fresh. 

Also it looks like her pricing is based off personality. She has huffy babies for 120$. So be wary of that when picking out a retired breeder. 

Honestly, right now breeders are going to have a lot of babies. Don't judge them on that this time of year. They are breeding for the holidays. 

Another thing to ask for is WHS guarantee. Wobbly hedgehog guarantees should be a lifetime guarantee with all hedgehogs bred at or used for breeding at a breeder. If there isn't one I would be cautious.


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## DesireeM81 (Jun 14, 2014)

I can't edit on my phone apparently. She seems to be a perfectly legit breeder. Ask about the WHS guarantee for the breeders. Using pine bedding and having lots of babies around Christmas are not reasons to not get one from her. The prices do vary from region to region so that isn't a concern either. 

I just don't want you to think that she is bad a breeder or anything before asking your questions. Breeders and owners do many things differently for certain reasons.


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## taylors hedgie (Oct 8, 2014)

This is her health guarentee: 

All hedgehogs born at Tranquill Hedgies will come with a 3 month health guarantee (please note that this does not include retired breeders). This guarantee covers pre-existing medical and physical defects up to the amount paid for the hedgehog. All cases of pre-existing medical and physical defects will be reviewed by Dr. Scott White prior to any monetary coverage of veterinary expense is paid. All exam records including any lab work/x-rays/photos along with a detailed break-down of the expected procedures and expenses will be required to be sent to Dr. White directly from the veterinarian who provided the exam and permission should be given to the veterinarian to discuss the hedgehog?s health/exam with Dr. White or Tranquill Hedgies (Kristy Marson). This guarantee does not cover issues related to neglect, malnutrition, environmentally derived health issues, disease/injury caused by you or any other human/animal or cancer. All veterinary expenses for the animal will be the responsibility of the owner starting at the time when the USDA form/bill of sale is signed by the new owner. The Health Guarantee will become void if the hedgehog does not receive a healthy animal check from a licensed veterinarian within 5 days of arriving at your home, if the Required Care Policy (below) is not followed, if the animal has been bred or given unprescribed medication. 

We request proof that you took your hedgehog to a licensed veterinarian, experienced with hedgehogs, for a healthy animal check within 5 days of arriving at your home.

All of our babies come with a lifetime guarantee against Wobbly Hedgehog Syndrome (WHS), a late onset neuro-muscular disorder. WHS is not a fast acting disease, it is similar to MS in humans and does not result in death immediately following initial observation of wobbliness, it is prolonged degradation of nerves and muscle tissue. The owner of hedgehogs born at Tranquill Hedgies should contact us as soon as WHS is suspected and certainly before any decision is made to euthanize. A necropsy will need to be performed by a veterinarian with previous experience identifying the brain lesions associated with WHS or one of my choosing to confirm the symptoms are caused by WHS. Should your hedgehog have a necropsy derived confirmation of WHS, the owner will have the option of purchasing a new hedgehog at half the listed price (however, Tranquill Hedgies will not assume shipping charges or provide transportation for the new hedgehog); the new hedgehog discount will be provided for up to 30 days after a WHS positive necropsy.


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## Prickerz (Sep 17, 2014)

I messed up. Geeze... 
I meant to say the best alternative is ASPEN bedding.


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## DesireeM81 (Jun 14, 2014)

:| It's not the greatest guarantee I have see out there. She isn't willing to replace the hedgehog which is the guarantee I got with my babies. She only gives half price which is curious. I would still ask about WHS guarantee for the retired breeders. The three month guarantee isn't the worse I have seen for babies. I have seen a month up to a year. Of course this is all at the breeders discretion.

The point that you should take away is *do YOU feel comfortable with your breeder? *

I got my baby girl when I knew very little about breeders and hedgehogs. I thought she was great. My first breeder definitely isn't the worse but I may have gone with someone else if I had done more research on breeders. However, my Penny, is my baby girl, she is my love and my life and as much as I love my other hogs, she is the sweetest, kindest hedgehog I have ever met in my life. I wouldn't trade her for anything. If you find that connection with a hedgehog then every thing just isn't going to matter.


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## MomLady (Aug 14, 2010)

Sorry is this is a little off topic, but Gail at Millermeade farms told me that breeders DON'T usually have a lot of babies in the fall/winter because it is against their natural breeding cycle. She always has more babies during the spring/summer. I think she said July was the best month. (My Nara was born in July!)

Also, most breeders will not let you see their hedgehog facilities due to outsiders bringing in disease and germs, plus upsetting moms with babies. 

I just wonder why this breeder has so many babies? Just wondering how big the herd is? 

Paying that much for a hedgie, you should have full pedigree back at least 5 generations at the minimum and the papers to prove it.


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## taylors hedgie (Oct 8, 2014)

Okay guys, I'm still a newb at this. What exactly is a pedigree?


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## Prickerz (Sep 17, 2014)

My breeder gladly sent me pictures of her "hedgehog room", the cages, the mother, and the babies. That is really what I meant by seeing how they live. 
She also would not allow any hedge babies to be brought home before seeing pictures of where they would be staying. 
Because I showed proof that I had an appt for a health exam a few days after I got her, the breeder gave me a slight discount. She said she would rather I show that I care about the animal's well being instead of her pocketing the money. 
I know not many breeders do it this way that I know of, but because this one requires you to take the hedgehog to the vet I guess I would think the prices wouldn't be so high.

But it is totally your decision!!


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## sc2001 (Oct 12, 2014)

It's like a family tree for hedgies. Showing 5 generations or more back in the baby's family line. It will also show any illness that the related hedgehogs had in their lifetime


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## Prickerz (Sep 17, 2014)

A pedigree is a chart or sheet that shows the bloodlines for the animal. It would tell you if there are any diseases or cancers in the previous generations before your hedgehog was born. 
Think of it like a family tree, in a way. Your great grandparents, connected to their children, and so on.


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## DesireeM81 (Jun 14, 2014)

A pedigree is the lineage of your hedgehogs parents and grandparents ect. going back five generations. All hedgehog breeders should have pedigrees on their hedgehogs that are bred. These pedigrees help keep WHS out of the lines that are being bred. 

I have never received a pedigree with my hedgehogs although I know they have pedigrees. My breeders don't give them out because they don't want their hedgehogs to be bred by non breeders. 

(Not saying that Gale is wrong and I think she is wonderful too but aren't hedgehogs induced ovulators? If so, would it matter what time a year they are bred as long as it's not more than twice a year, 6 months apart? Just a curious thought as I have no idea how actually breeding works)


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## MomLady (Aug 14, 2010)

I think it's something to do with the amount of light or something--probably some kind of circadian rhythm--I think we ALL are affected by regular kinds of cycles, hormones, light and darkness, seasons and that kind of thing. 
Gale wasn't saying that there aren't any babies, just not as much as the demand seems to be in the fall/winter. I have the feeling that when breeders have a lot of babies available, the price could go down. 

I did take the "huffy" one for a discount and she took a LONG time to come around, but she is old and docile now. :lol:

I would probably tell other people to go with a easy, friendly hedgehog for their first one. Since I am older and dealt with a colicky newborn, a huffy hedgehog wasn't a problem--I knew what to expect with hedgie behavior.


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