# Gutloading, anyone?



## Nell (Aug 26, 2010)

Ok. I bombarded my vet with nutrition questions when I met him. I got a rather lengthy response, in it he goes over the bugs to feed to a hedgehog. 

=Crickets=
PRO: easy to acquire, readily accepted simple to gutload and keep.
CON: sub-par nutrition if not gutloaded, noisy/smelly, must monitor feeding to avoid leaving extra in tank, short shelf-life
=Mealworms=
PRO: easy to acquire, often accepted simple to gutload, may be kept in fridge for long periods (gutloading must be done after removing from the fridge), easily cultured at home.
CON: high Shell:Meat ratio may cause impaction with over feeding or improper temps, sub-par nutrition if not gutloaded.
=Superworms=
Identical to mealworms, larger size. Even higher Shell:Meat ratio. Harder to culture at home.
=Waxworms=
PRO: better nutrition, readily accepted
CON: unable to gutload, relatively short shelf-life, high fat.
=Butterworms=-
PRO: excellent nutrition (Calcium ++), eagerly accepted, gutloading unneccessary, no hard shell = easy digestion, may be kept in the fridge
CON: expensive, impossible to culture at home,
=Silkworms=
PRO: excellent nutrition (Calcium ++), eagerly accepted, gutloading unneccessary, no hard shell = easy digestion
CON: expensive, difficult to culture at home
=Hornworms=
Identical to Silkworms but larger, even more difficult to culture at home.

Now, what I notice is that with every example he gives he mentions how easy/hard they are to gutload. At the time I didn't know what it was. Now I know. 

Gut loading is the process by which an animal's prey is raised and fed nutritious foods with the intention of passing those nutrients to the animal for which the prey is intended. 

THis forum only has a few comments on gut loading, as far as I can tell. Who here does this? What do you feed to your bugs?

Also, where on earth can I find Silk, Wax, Butter and Hornworms in Toronto?


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## hedgielover (Oct 30, 2008)

Neil I'm in toronto too! Is your vet Greenwood Park? Dr Munn? 

Anyway for finding weird bugs your best bet is the managery pet shop. I'm not sure they'll have what you are looking for but they sell a lot of reptiles so it's your best bet. The store is in cabbage town, on Parliament just south of Wellesley. 

I'm sorry I don't know anything about gut loading accept that I can't do it (I just kill them).


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## Nell (Aug 26, 2010)

I'm actually seeing Dr Robin Lane in Animal Park hospital. He was my ferret's vet when I had him. I live close to old Cabbagetown though, figs.


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## hedgielover (Oct 30, 2008)

If I hadn't just moved we'd practically be neighbours.


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## PJM (May 7, 2010)

I have a tub of mealworms that I gutload with carrots, celery, potatoes & wheat cereal.
I also have Red Wigglers (earthworms) - collectively named George that I use to compost all my fruit & veggie scraps. I keep them in a bin under the sink & if you take care of them, they don't smell at all. Originally, I got them to use their castings in my garden & plants. I let Cholla & Zoey try one for the first time the other day. Cholla didn't know what to do with it, but Zoey gobbled it down.
From a previous post, it was brought out that they have about 84% moisture, 10% protein, 2% fat & misc. I think that's not bad for an occational treat. Very, very easy to grow & gutload. And no shell.


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## indygo88 (Aug 21, 2010)

I had no idea what gutloading was, so thanks for passing that information along.

I also know not much about Toronto, but I've been getting my hedgie's wax worms from a bait shop that's nearby. (They're also known as bee moths.) Don't know if you have any bait shops near your place, but it might be worth a try...??


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## Sheryl (Sep 9, 2010)

I don't know about Toronto, but here in Colorado, hornworms are found on my tomato plants in the summertime. We don't get those terribly often, but we get tons of cabbage worms. I wonder if those are safe to feed to hedgies. I can't tell you how thrilled I'd be to feed those yucky things to Wilson.


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## Sarahg (Feb 18, 2010)

Sheryl said:


> I don't know about Toronto, but here in Colorado, hornworms are found on my tomato plants in the summertime. We don't get those terribly often, but we get tons of cabbage worms. I wonder if those are safe to feed to hedgies. I can't tell you how thrilled I'd be to feed those yucky things to Wilson.


It's not recommended to feed "outside" bugs. You just never know what they've been exposed to. You may not use pesticides or chemical-laden fertilizer, but your neightbors might.


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## susanaproenca (Aug 14, 2010)

I gutload mealworms with carrots and apples.


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## Immortalia (Jan 24, 2009)

I gutload using whatever veggies I am having that night/week. I tend to find that leafy greens are MUCH easier for gutloading as they don't rot. They just dry out. I don't really like using apples and carrots and potatoes because I find that they rot easier. But with leafy greens, I've had no problems with. Usually chinese veggies and greens. 

Bait shops are not the best place to get bugs. Mostly because they aren't really raised to be fed to pets. Unless you know them really well and know how they raise/farm their bugs, it's impossible to tell how "healthy" it may be. 

As for Toronto, PJ's had always had different types of worms, silk worms and wax worms being the most common. However, they're getting harder to find, as I find they keep closing them down in the malls  I always went to Yorkdale PJ's cause it was close, and then they closed it. Don't know if it's back again now that they've been rebuilding the mall *shrugs*

I get my bug supplies from a large reptile store over in downtown Hamilton.


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## Nell (Aug 26, 2010)

What can I gutload mealworms with for added fiber or calcium?

XD I guess I'm going to develop a new fixation once I'm done sorting out my dry food mix.


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## LarryT (May 12, 2009)

I like to use sweet potato and carrots.


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## Sheryl (Sep 9, 2010)

Sarahg said:


> It's not recommended to feed "outside" bugs. You just never know what they've been exposed to. You may not use pesticides or chemical-laden fertilizer, but your neightbors might.


I wonder about these cabbage worms, though. We've lived in our home since it was built 16 years ago and we've never used a chemical (organic or otherwise) in our garden or on our lawn. The cabbage worms grow from eggs that are laid on our organic cabbage (and broccoli) by these annoying white moths. The worms (caterpillars, actually) hatch from these eggs and eat the cabbage and broccoli. I don't see how a caterpillar that is hatched and grown on organic produce could have pesticide. Unless maybe the pesticide could be in the moth's egg, which I suppose is possible.


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## hedgielover (Oct 30, 2008)

Immortalia said:


> As for Toronto, PJ's had always had different types of worms, silk worms and wax worms being the most common. However, they're getting harder to find, as I find they keep closing them down in the malls  I always went to Yorkdale PJ's cause it was close, and then they closed it. Don't know if it's back again now that they've been rebuilding the mall *shrugs*


PJ's is not one of the stores listed as coming to yorkdale after the renovation. Since it was closed a year or two ago I highly doubt it's coming back. The PJ's locations I know of are

Scarborough town centre 
Yonge Eglinton Centre 
North of Yonge and Lawrence (this one I know for sure has canned meal worms and live crickets I don't know about the rest)


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

Just wanted to add that I've read somewhere on this forum that hornworms wouldn't be good to feed. I don't recall if they were poisonous or not, but I do remember that they don't taste good, so it's unlikely a hedgehog would want to eat one anyway.


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## Nell (Aug 26, 2010)

I didn't find anything on that :/. It seems people give hornworms to reptiles/hedgehogs normally.


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## HedgeMom (Nov 7, 2008)

I've been around hedgehogs and forums for about 16 years and I don't recall anyone of any repute feeding hornworms. Wild hornworms are prone to being infected with eggs from the parasitic wasp and I have clue what affect that would have on a hedgehog. In addition, because they have no chitin, they aren't really as suitable as other insects. If you aren't satisfied with the common safe insects, then look into roaches.


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