# North African (Algerian) hedgehog



## Draenog (Feb 27, 2012)

Does anyone have experience with this breed?  (North African hedgehog, also know as Algerian, Atelerix algirus). My new rehome is one and there is very little information on them it seems. 
If the pygmy hedgehog is a result of the crossing between this species and the four-toed, you'd think there would be more info but I can't really find anything... but I know there are people on here who've had hedgehogs for a very long time, so maybe they know the species.


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## DesireeM81 (Jun 14, 2014)

If I'm remembering correctly, the cross between the two has been passed down for so long that basically any hedgehog you get can be white bellied or Algerian. I have always called my little girl Algerian. She matches every description perfectly from the cheek patches, to the molting on her limbs and belly to the muddiness of her head quills. 

I think that they are practically the same now, the only difference are the traits such as coloring. 

I could totally be wrong here but that was my understanding of APH's.


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## Draenog (Feb 27, 2012)

Yes, I know, that's what they say about APH. But my new rehome is an Algerian hedgehog (North African) which is why I asked, there might be people on here who have experience with the first imported hedgehogs (or know people who do) - among which should have been Algerian ones.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

You might try contacting Bryan, if you can manage to get a hold of him in any way. I know he mentioned having some of the very early hedgehogs, so he might have some experience and information to share if you can reach him. Unfortunately, I have no idea on how you could contact him! If I do find a contact method for him, I'll pass it on to you.

Edit: I think I found a possible way to contact him if you can't reach him via PMing on the forums! Googled and he's on the IHA's breeder list under Saskatchewan. http://www.hedgehogclub.com/breeders.html There's a website, email, etc. listed.


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## Draenog (Feb 27, 2012)

Thank you Kelsey! I will try to contact him. So far I've had no luck with finding someone who has kept this species.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

Good luck! And do we get to see some pictures of this new guy? I'd be really interested to see what he looks like!!


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## Draenog (Feb 27, 2012)

Sure.  Turns out it's a girl, so she has no name yet (had a boys name since they thought it was a male, but I was going to change it anyway). She comes all the way from Morocco (previous owners where Moroccan and relatives found the hog when she was a baby, and gave it away to their family who lives here.)










She has very funny light coloured 'eyebrows'. :lol:










Very good climber (and matches our couch  )


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## gracefulchaos01 (Mar 19, 2014)

She is amazing looking. I love the darkness to her, but I've been noticing myself often more attracted to darker hedgies. She looks bigger than a typical APH. She really is quite lovely. Good luck finding a name. I would likely name her Hecate or Morrigan given how dark she is. But so much is based on personality too. Who ever heard of a cuddly Morrigan?


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

Oh my gosh, she's awesome!  It's so weird to see her fur all brown too, she looks so much like an African Pygmy otherwise. :lol: How is her temperament? Seems like she must be decently friendly considering you were able to get face pics!

(Also can I just say I'm still jealous of anyone with a bigger hedgie? She looks so big in the picture with the hand & I'd love to have a big hedgie sometime. Lily was around 400g, but still fit in just one of my rather small hands.)


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## Draenog (Feb 27, 2012)

She is bigger than your average APH (although I've seen ones heavier than her), but smaller than European hedgehogs. It's not like I have such small hands :lol: Here's a comparison picture, on the left is my 515g male APH.










Her fur is dark except for a white streak on her belly and some light coloured patches (eyebrows) in her face. And the inside of her ears are light with a dark edge. She kind of looks like a really big APH with huge feet...

She is quite friendly. Doesn't click, only huff, but not that much. No hissy fits. Very active and curious, runs really fast, and climbs on things if they're in her way. She is very protective of her belly though so it's kinda hard to pick her up without getting your fingers caught in a prickly ball. Otherwise she's fine with handling.

As for names, I kinda have a theme (Norse mythology) so it'll most likely be something in that direction.


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## gracefulchaos01 (Mar 19, 2014)

My husband knew a fair bit on the Norse mythology front, but for me the only semi dark lady that comes to mind would be Hel. And that just doesn't seem to fit. I'm sure you will find something that fits that sweetheart


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## gracefulchaos01 (Mar 19, 2014)

Hey. Her quills are shorter than your boys. Sebastian and Co have very similar short round quills, but Titan has longer near flat quills that look closer to your boys quills. It's very interesting to see that genetic difference between the types of hedgehog side by side. I hadn't realized it might be a breed difference with my kids. 
Sorry for the double post I had only just realized... very cool


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## Draenog (Feb 27, 2012)

I'm sure I'll find something that fits, there are so many Norse names... it has worked out with the others as well so far... 

Her quills are not shorter than my boy's, I think it just looks like it because his are all white and he doesn't frown in this pic. I always keep lost quills and she lost two yesterday, they're longer than those of my other hedgehogs.
What do you mean by breed difference? Your hedgehogs would be both African pygmy, at least if they're regular pet hedgehogs.

Edit: typo


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## gracefulchaos01 (Mar 19, 2014)

Well, all 6 are APH of course, but, like how some people have different characteristics from different ancestors. My aunt has black hair and swarthy skin, but all my other aunts and uncles are fair. But looking at old photos, you can see she came by her looks naturally. It's just a genetic heritage thing. It interests me.


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## Tongue_Flicker (Jun 11, 2013)

Ahhh morocco.. yes, my choco's wild parents were originally moroccan wild imports. You'd be surprised at how tough they are to heat, cold as well the ability to eat everything that breathes and moves...

Love yours btw and congrats!


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## Draenog (Feb 27, 2012)

gracefulchaos01 said:


> Well, all 6 are APH of course, but, like how some people have different characteristics from different ancestors. My aunt has black hair and swarthy skin, but all my other aunts and uncles are fair. But looking at old photos, you can see she came by her looks naturally. It's just a genetic heritage thing. It interests me.


I've started to wonder how much of the Algerian hedgehog (North African) actually influenced the African pygmy, since they do not seem to have many things in common. I have heard stories of APH with a different number of toes, but it seems to be very rare. They all seem to have small paws with four toes on the hind feet; APH just seem to look mostly like the four-toed/whitebellied hedgehog. What we call 'Algerian colouring', the dark masks and the more muddy dark quill colour, actually seems to be a trait of the four-toed hedgehog if you look at pictures of wild ones; while the Algerian hedgehog usually barely has a mask and is overall a light greyish in colour (although they can be as dark or even darker than mine. But if I look them up, I mostly see light coloured ones). 
So either the influence of the Algerian has been very little, or the four-toed traits were simply more dominant and have been mixing and outcrossing the more Algerian traits for a while now. There are however hogs who have longer snouts than others, which might be influenced by the Algerian. My male (in the picture) is one of these, while I have a female here who has the typical white-bellied small face with a shorter nose.



Tongue_Flicker said:


> Ahhh morocco.. yes, my choco's wild parents were originally moroccan wild imports. You'd be surprised at how tough they are to heat, cold as well the ability to eat everything that breathes and moves...
> 
> Love yours btw and congrats! :smile:


That's cool! Do you have a picture of your Choco? Does he look similar to mine? I'd love to hear more about him. But what do you mean with "You'd be surprised at how tough they are to heat, cold"?
The previous owners of mine have been keeping her outside in summer but they recently took her inside. She hasn't seen a winter here yet. Our summers are not that hot so I'm surprised she has been doing that well outside.

I tried to offer her mealworms and superworms but she ignored them :lol: They have been feeding he wet cat food, I'm not sure if she is familiar with live insects.


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## Tongue_Flicker (Jun 11, 2013)

It's actually a she. She looks more like an ordinary domestic Algerian Chocolate Snowflake. Her attitude and habits however, are not. She will bite during the night, greedily consumes snails and frogs and refuses the normal kibbles but she did learn to eat it eventually. Mine was impervious to heat (my other hedgies were laying belly flat already during the hottest summer but she sleeps normally like a baby) rarely drinks water and her teeth is always visible like yours for some reason lol.

Her mood drastically changes if offered live prey (mostly insects) as well. Put her in loose soil and you'll see her digging quickly right on the spot.


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## Draenog (Feb 27, 2012)

If she looks like an African pygmy, her parents cannot be from Morocco. Only the North African hedgehog lives there. I think someone didn't tell you the truth. If it would be four-toed import it would make more sense if they came from Central Africa.
You'd say she would look similar to mine if her parents were Algerian.

My boy's teeth (APH) are always visible too and he's very vicious when it comes to live food (his previous owners didn't use a heat lamp so he's not very temperature sensitive either), so that doesn't say much I think...


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## Tongue_Flicker (Jun 11, 2013)

Draenog said:


> If she looks like an African pygmy, her parents cannot be from Morocco. Only the North African hedgehog lives there. I think someone didn't tell you the truth. If it would be four-toed import it would make more sense if they came from Central Africa.
> You'd say she would look similar to mine if her parents were Algerian.
> 
> My boy's teeth (APH) are always visible too and he's very vicious when it comes to live food (his previous owners didn't use a heat lamp so he's not very temperature sensitive either), so that doesn't say much I think...


Perhaps.. my friend said the parents were wild moroccan til i realized we even had wild hedgehogs in our backyard here in Bahrain. I wanted to breed her with the ones i flew in from the Philippines but she was so vicious that she had killed one male and severely wounded another male who was trying to mate with her. Unfortunately, before i had my vacation i had to sell them all off. (Look what might have happened to them if i left them to my sister too i.e. dead leopard gecko)


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## Draenog (Feb 27, 2012)

Maybe the parents where wild, but four-toed hedgehogs from another country in Africa (maybe shipped through Morocco? Although that doesn't make much sense. The range of the four-toed hedgehog is closer to Bahrain). I think the wild ones you have is the desert hedgehog (Paraechinus aethiopicus)?
Edit: upon checking, I saw I was wrong, apparently the desert hedgehog lives in Morocco as well. I thought they only had the Algerian one. Apparently they can have similar colouring to the four-toed. Maybe it is one of these? I cannot seem to find if it is a long eared hedgehog or not. There are pictures of long eared hedgehogs and pictures of ones with small ears when I try to Google the species. The picture on Wikipedia looks very similar to an APH hoglet, but when I check Google I see long eared hedgehogs as well. It would make sense though if you say yours looked more like an APH.
If she was from a different species it might be one of the reasons she was so aggressive towards them?

I read about your leopard gecko, so sad


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