# Hedgehog biting hard and humping



## karidaluv

Hey guys-
As you know from my other posts, Herby is going through puberty and quilling at the same time. He's a bit angrier than usual and hates for me to pet him now, probably because it hurts growing in those new quills. What his new thing is has to do with biting. He sniffs around for my fingers or hands, sometimes the arms, and then he attacks it by biting. HARD. This morning he sniffed my forearm, then he bit it and held on (as in locked jaw). I think he was doing a humping motion with his rear end, too, and since he wouldn't let go I had to blow on his face to make him release.

Here's the thing--the vet said he was going through puberty, so his attitude may be like aggressive and agitated for at least a month or two. On top of the mites he had two weeks ago, he's growing in a hefty amount of new quills--30 in just the one area that the vet examined with a microscrope tool. He tried to bite the vet, too, and when my husband held him against his shirt, Herby bit the shirt hard and began to pull away and lift his rear end. The vet said that he was humping the air, probably a sign that he's going through puberty right now.

Have any of you guys seen your male hedgehogs bite down on something and then try to hump it? I'm asking because none of the books I read have any tips as to how to calm this act down. He hurt me pretty bad this morning, and I hate to blow on his face cause then he doesn't want me to hold or touch him at all. 

The vet suggested neutering him since he was, and I quote from the vet "very well endowed", and since his actions are rough, they indicate that Herby likes "it" rough, probably. According to the vet, hedgehogs during mating will bite down on something and hump away. 

I just want him to no bite me anymore. I'm afraid to let him crawl on me or my hands because he constantly wants to attack me. Any tips or help would be great. Should I neuter him? He's never going to breed and the vet said it will take away his aggression altogether.

Thanks guys-

T.


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## Hedgiepets

Rarely, males that bad, but if he is really aggressive, I would go ahead and neuter him.


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## Sela

Just remember that neutering, in hedgehogs, is much more invasive than spaying (which I find REALLY weird, since it's almost always the other way around in other animals) so there's more risk involved. If you have a really good vet who has operated successfully on hedgehogs before, though, I don't think you have much to worry about.

I speak from experience on this one, as my hedgie girl, Quillamina, needed to be spayed in January to to uterine cancer. You will definitely worry about him, but there is no reason to think the worst, as long as your vet knows what he's doing.


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## karidaluv

Thanks guys. I'm thinking of having his spayed or neutered. The aggressiveness is so bad that there are times when he lets him pet him and hold him, but it's rare now. He honestly attacks my hands and body and tries to bite me every chance he gets. 

Guess the guy's gonna lose his balls. Hopefully it will put him back to normal. You think all the hormones are the problem?


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## karidaluv

Is it okay to not handle him while he's going through this, since holding him may hurt because of his new quills coming in? Besides, he's biting hard so trying to pick him up in any way is impossible right now.


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## Hedgieonboard

My male never went through this with puberty. If he is being that aggressive though I wouldn't blame you if you were unable to handle him. Normally I'd say you could try taking him out and letting him run around in a playpen with you but if he's actively seeking you out to bite then that doesn't seem like it would work either. This is a hard one because I don't hear to many stories where a hedgie is that aggressive. Hope it all works out and good luck at the vets, please keep us posted on the little one


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## HedgeMom

I don't know about hedgehogs but in dogs, by the time that much aggression is shown, neutering is useless. This is due the fact that testosterone is also made by the adrenal glands and is regulated by the pituitary gland. When the testicles are removed, the deficit is made up for by the body. 

Without seeing him in action, I'd wonder if the "humping" is actually him trying to ball up when he's biting, which many hedgehogs do. I'd also wait until he's finished quilling and see how much it tones down before doing something as drastic as neutering. It's a very invasive surgery that can go quite wrong with an inexperienced vet.


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## Nancy

I've never had a male have such a drastic puberty related change. Females yes, but not a male. I'm betting it is more quilling related. Keep handling him gently. Let him sit on you but don't pet him. Keep exposed skin out of mouths reach and if you need to, use a small cloth or hedgie bag to hold and carry him. He is too young to be neutered anyways and it is a more risky surgery.


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## karidaluv

Thanks everyone. I guess I should wait till he stops quilling to find out if it was just that, but in terms of the whole biting and humping, it's definitely humping. Ever see those mating videos on youtube? It looks EXACTLY like what the male would do to a female during mating. It's funny cause the vet said he was well endowed and probably very frustrated. He's at the right age to go through puberty. I guess quilling plus puberty is what is making him very aggressive at this point in time, so I will wait a month and see how things go.

I hope that me blowing on his face when he locks on doesn't make him scared of me even more. Hopefully he'll be okay with me again. There are times when I can pick him up with some huffing but no biting, and mostly in the early morning around 6am when I clean his cage. Any time after that, I'm screwed. Also, the time to hold him at 6am is brief, cause he starts biting after a good 10 minutes. 

I'll use a cloth and long sleeved shirts for now to prevent him from biting me, or just put him in his blankie on the couch next to me for 30 minutes a day just to get him used to me being near him. Do you guys think this is a good idea?


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## Nancy

I wouldn't blow in his face or use any type of punishment. Just keep your fingers and exposed skin away from his mouth. Right now he is hurting from quilling and also doesn't know if he'es coming or going. Think baby teething combined with puberty in a human child. He needs gentleness and kindness and blowing in is face is possibly going make the behaviour more permanent.


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## karidaluv

Oh okay. Thanks! Now I feel bad. Well this morning he was restless but didn't bite my arms or neck. He doesn't want to be pet still but that's okay. I'm going to try and handle him without petting for now since he's balling up a lot or always trying to escape. He's very jumpy, even at the slightest sounds.


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## karidaluv

So today I decided to take him out in the afternoon. He tried to bite and he was popping and huffing, but I kept him in his blankie against me. I then proceeded to give him a warm bath in the sink with olive oil and used a toothbrush to put Aveeno on him, then let him swim awhile. He looked happier, too. Once he was done I washed him down, put him in a towel and let him eat mealworms in the towel. I transferred him back to his blankie then out him on me and sat down on the couch. He crawled up onto my shoulders, crawled around my neck and proceeded to sniff and lick me. Then he fell asleep. He was very good after that, letting my husband hold him with his bare hands when it was time to put him back in his cage, and he didn't pop or huff, nor bite!!!!

I guess I have to give him time, and I bet that bath made him feel better, too. HIS BALLS ARE SAVED!


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## Puffers315

Seems like baths sometimes can be a major bonding step, I can't say this 100% but my first hog Vera stopped huffing after she had a few baths, and even Hester (who is very anti-social) will cuddle for a spell after hers. But I would definitely give him a month or so, quilling has been said to turn cuddlers into monsters and monsters into cuddlers when they go through it, then slap on the fact that he's in puberty.


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## karidaluv

Hey guys-
I am uploading a 5 minute video of Herby having his aggressive behavior. I want to know what you guys think. From the time of this post it'll take 30 minutes to upload, but check out my channel and watch it. It's called "Herby's Bad Day". Do you think this is normal for puberty and quilling?

Your help is appreciated 

my channel is: http://www.youtube.com/user/karidaluv


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## PJM

I think it's normal for Hedgehogs. Cholla does that all the time. That's when I know it's time to put the camera away. Or to stop moving around. Or to quit eating snacks & not sharing. I don't think that he's being overly aggressive. I am sure that part of it is just the simple fact of having a camera in his space. Or just having a person in his space. Or just the concept of space. :roll:


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## karidaluv

Maybe. before I recorded all that footage he was doing that without anything in his face, but I guess he wasn't in the mood for me today. I tried to pick him up again just now and he's still being really aggressive. Oh well. Another bad day during puberty and quilling. *sigh*


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## PJM

I'm sorry, I hope it will be over quickly. Since Cholla is my first, I figure everything he does is normal. :lol: I figure hedgies are alot like men...


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## karidaluv

They sure are hehe


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## nikki

when you took him off your shoulder, did you pick him up by his back legs or tail?? it looked pretty rough however you did it. You should pick him up by scooping him up..supporting his back at all time. Other than that he looked like a normal hedgehog who is tired of being poked at.


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## karidaluv

I pick him up from the top of his body because he bites my fingers and hands. Glad to know this is normal behavior.


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## karidaluv

Hey guys when he's like this should I just leave him in his cage? He tends to attack when he's in the bad mood and I'm assuming clicking and huffing with the biting is his way of saying that he's not in the mood for me.


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## Hedgieonboard

Was the person shooting the video waving something near him? To me he looked like a normal hedgie that had enough. I can't speak for all hedgies but the jumping that he's doing is similar to when my first hedgie had just got home and was very scared. One thing too that I thought, does he start this when another person is present? Reason I ask is it looked like he was hanging out being good on your shoulder and then started reacting when there was the camera and possibly another scent if someone else was shooting. Hedgies can react also to uncommon to different voices and scents. When I took my hedgie in to the vet he instantly knew by smell that the vet was not me and balled up before she even had a chance to get her hand in. Just some thoughts, its a hard situation. Hope you it works out and he stops the biting


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## LizardGirl

To me he just looks like a very sweet hedgie that is being irritated to the point of aggression to get the point across. The camera in his face constantly, the light from the camera on him, picking him up harshly (even if he bites, there are better ways to move him than to dangle him by his legs or skin), it really just makes me think he's getting extra defensive from the way he is being handled.

No offense, but I think if you backed off a bit he'd settle down a lot more. You can see he's comfortable walking around or snuggling, he's just bothered when the person filming is up in his face.


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## LarryT

LizardGirl said:
 

> To me he just looks like a very sweet hedgie that is being irritated to the point of aggression to get the point across. The camera in his face constantly, the light from the camera on him, picking him up harshly (even if he bites, there are better ways to move him than to dangle him by his legs or skin), it really just makes me think he's getting extra defensive from the way he is being handled.
> 
> No offense, but I think if you backed off a bit he'd settle down a lot more. You can see he's comfortable walking around or snuggling, he's just bothered when the person filming is up in his face.


I agree with LG!


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## karidaluv

I wanted to record the behavior and I guess I was too close. I tried to pick him up by scooping him up but he bit me to the point where he punctured my skin on my hands. He's popping loudly today and when he did get on me he was trying to escape. I'm trying to figure out if I while even try to have bonding time with him when he's this mad. There was no camera in his face this morning but what you see in that video happened again today. I need to record that behavior for the vet next Thursday but I'll keep the camera far away  
I can't scoop him up or put my hand in front of him because he latches on hard and attacks me, so I pick him up from behind either underneath his hind let's then scoop him up where he can't see my fingers or from top.


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## karidaluv

Should I leave him alone for a few days?


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## hedgielover

First off I didn't see any aggression at all in that video. Once when he sort of lunged with his mouth open it looked like he might bite but otherwise he was just being a normal hedgehog. He wasn't even completely balled up or violently popping (seriously you should try holding my hedgehog to see what an angry hedgie is really like) Most of the time his quills were completely flat. 

To me a few huffles like that are just part of handling a hedgehog. His huffing to me sounds like "I'm trying to get comfy/go somewhere else and you are moving the blanket and getting in my way." Quigley huffs like that all the time and not only at me but at his toys and blanket too it's just a frustrated "get out of the way" huff it's not aggressive at all. 

No matter how much he bites you shouldn't pick him up from the top. It didn't look his body was supported at all when you lifted him off your shoulder. To get a hedgehog off your shoulder you should gently but firmly press your hand down on his back to hold him still. bend or tilt so he is upside down and now supported by your hand. Then you can move your hand away. He'll end up on his back in your hand. To scoop him up without risking a bite use a fleece blanket to lift him. To touch him, don't poke him and then move your hand away. Gently and slowly place your hand on his back or beside him. Don't move. He will settle in a moment. Moving your hand away at the slightest raised quill or huff tells him how to get rid of you when he wants. 

When he is in a huffy mood just let him get comfy in his blanket and try to sit still with him beside you or on your lap. Hedgehogs don't like movement especially when they are trying to nap.


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## karidaluv

AHA! I'm so glad that it isn't too bad. Oh, the video didn't get him when he was in his ball clicking loudly while jumping in his balled up state. I was freaking out how loud he clicks! Anyways, I'll try the fleece thing and get him used to my hands being in front again. He won't bite if I hand feed him, which is strange but I guess he likes it when I feed him things by hand. He used to be a really nice hedgehog, but when he started puberty he went all mean and hates being pet. I used to cradle him on my left forearm and stroke him from the front of his head, back when he first came home a month ago. Now he's mean and I guess he's hurting cause of quilling.

Thanks for the input, guys. I'll keep handling him like I usually do, an hour every evening and 30 minutes in the morning when I change his cage.

PS: If he's trying to escape me, should I let him go? Sometimes he crawls up behind my neck during bonding time, but when he's angry he tries to find a way off of me or a way down.


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## tracie

Puffers315 said:


> Seems like baths sometimes can be a major bonding step, I can't say this 100% but my first hog Vera stopped huffing after she had a few baths, and even Hester (who is very anti-social) will cuddle for a spell after hers. But I would definitely give him a month or so, quilling has been said to turn cuddlers into monsters and monsters into cuddlers when they go through it, then slap on the fact that he's in puberty.


Really?? I gave my quilling hedgehogs baths, and they all hated it.


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## karidaluv

yeah baths for Herby is enjoyable. He likes to swim and when I take him out he still tries to get back in the sink for more.


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## tracie

karidaluv said:


> yeah baths for Herby is enjoyable. He likes to swim and when I take him out he still tries to get back in the sink for more.


My hedgehogs climb up my arm to get out of the water.

By the way, mine are quilling right now, and they are all pretty grumpy. One growled at my sister-in-law when she was trying to make sure he had enough food, and then started popping and hissing. They roll into a ball and hiss and pop anytime I try to pick them up. They supposedly stop the grumpy behavior after a month or so.


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## karidaluv

okay now i'm freaked out.

He was doing beautifully today. I fed him on my tummy, as usual, didn't pet him. he roamed around, drank water, then climbed up on me. He tried to get into my shirt and I scooped him up with one hand from underneath and gently placed him back on top of my shirt. He sniffed my neck, leaned against it for a few minutes, then he suddenly bit hard. REALLY hard. After I calmly removed him from my shoulder, I let him roam around then he came back up on my shoulder again and bit me on my neck a second time in a different spot.

No changes, no anxiety, no cameras on him at all. WTF!?!?!?!

I should mention that I was cooking a meatloaf when I brought him out. Do you think the smell in the house made him do it? And his back quills were twitching, too. Other than that, his quills were down and he was fine for at least awhile.

Here's a picture. He ripped skin and made me bleed, but I cleaned it up cause it was kind of gory.


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## tracie

He's a vampire hedgehog!

He could just be a biter. And maybe if he didn't do it before, the quilling and stuff changed his attitude. I would say just keep your skin away from him...


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## tie-dye hedgie

Ouch, that looks painful! 
Are you washing your hands with unscented soap every time before you handle him? This helps in multiple ways: keeping everything sanitary around him, reducing the chance of germs, and lessening the smells that can make him think your fingers are food.


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## shealynn87

were you wearing perfume or lotion?


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## karidaluv

No perfume at all. I use the same soap to shower everyday. I'm thinking that the overwhelming smell of meatloaf cooking in the house may have done it. That, and when I finally put him in his cage after an hour, he ate a lot. I tried to feed him out of his cage after giving him a treat but he didn't want it. He wasn't only biting me, though. I gave him to my husband and while Herby crawled on his arms and hands he bit everything on him :lol: He was biting pretty hard though, no one of those tasting bites. He bit my hubby's nipple through his shirt, too :lol: I think he'll be better after the whole puberty and quilling is over. He started puberty and quilling about 3 weeks ago. 

This morning he was better when I cleaned up his cage, although still huffing and popping. I was able to scoop him up gently and he crawled around my neck and didn't bite it. i washed up his feet cause he had poopy boots and I discovered that, after spending 100 bucks on beds and hedgie bags that he prefers my old t-shirt to crawl under. Go figure!

What we noticed, and I don't know if this means anything, is that he likes to bite on his soft toy ball in his cage a lot at night, and he drags his stuffed hedgehog (that's his size) around, too. Maybe he's a biter now. He did bite the vet on his first appointment the day after I got him. Hm...


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## shealynn87

I know that when I have my little girl out snuggling or playing she will bite me if she is hungry. Maybe you should try bringing his food bowl out during bonding time so he has that option.


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## karidaluv

shealynn87 said:


> I know that when I have my little girl out snuggling or playing she will bite me if she is hungry. Maybe you should try bringing his food bowl out during bonding time so he has that option.


I'll try that instead. He used to love to eat from this little silver ketchup container (like the ones from diners) but recently he sniffs the edges, eats one or two pieces of food then goes away. Maybe he doesn't like the smell of that container anymore.

I'll try his rock bowl instead. Thanks for that tip!


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## tracie

Yeah, it is possible he's hungry. I traveled with my hedgies recently, and they hadn't eaten in awhile because we were moving and someone did something with their food and I couldn't find it, but by the time I found it, we were almost on the road and I didn't want them getting carsick. So an hour after we were on the road, they were clawing at their cage like they were trying to get out, so I put my hand in front of their cage to see what they were doing (it was dark and I was driving), and they bit me. They chomped down HARD. We stopped at the rest stop and I fed them and they were fine then.


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## jinglesharks

Yeah, I'd try feeding first of all. Pepper ALWAYS bites me if he gets too hungry, though he's kind enough to give me ample warning first. I get a lot of nibbles and licks, and if I'm paying attention I notice him opening his mouth repeatedly and stretching it out towards me :lol: If I'm not paying attention, he chomps. He also gets very restless and will start climbing all over me. when he wants to be fed, he makes it clear!

Other than that, I can't suggest much. Pepper is always very clear about why he's biting me- the last chomp I got was very obviously because he wanted to get in the couch and I interfered. It was a short, hard bite, very much a, "Hey! I was doing something." Pay really close attention when he bites and see if you can figure out what's going on in his little head. I'm sure it's much easier to eliminate what's causing him to bite than teach him to find another coping method, haha. Good luck!


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## tie-dye hedgie

Did you ever hand-feed him when he was younger?


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## karidaluv

tie-dye hedgie said:


> Did you ever hand-feed him when he was younger?


 When I first got him I was providing him mealworms and treats with my hands or holding it in front of him between my index finger and thumb. I still hand feed him treats time and again, and he never bites my hand during feeding. He's also very comfortable with me holding his bowl up to his mouth so he can eat if I use a small container for his food while he's on me. When he's eating I can pet him and move him around and his quills are down and he's comfortable.


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## tie-dye hedgie

I would stop hand feeding him totally. Since you have done that for awhile, he might be considering your hands as food, which causes him to bite.


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## karidaluv

I'll give that a try. His bites are tearing flesh and drawing blood now. He's also running toward our bodies or hands and biting hard. The strange thing is that his quills are down even when he's popping, huffing and trying to turn around to bite me when I try to scoop him up. I moved his cage out of the second bedroom to the living room this afternoon. I wonder if he's preally pissed off attitude today has to do with me moving his cage somewhere else?


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## karidaluv

hey guys-
what does it mean when he's biting hard and attacking us while his quills are down? I'm confused. After he ate the other night he was fine, crawling around and then suddenly he got paranoid and charged at my husband's arm and bit him till he bled. We got him to detach but nothing provoked him to do it. The other thing that was strange was Herby did all that with his quills down and no warning, like popping or hissing. The other thing he's doing is biting EVERYTHING. I didn't get it on picture of video, but as he was crawling around the coffee table on his fleece he got off of it, crawled toward the pc mouse and bit the scroll wheel and then bit the sides of the mouse. He did go up to it then lunge forward to bite. He even bit his own bedding hard and latched on and he bit the remote control, the papers on the table--everything. all while his quills are down.

he has a vet appointment tomorrow so we'll see what happens. The pet store was informed of his attitude and are willing to either exchange him or have me bring him in to see what his behavior is like so they can see what they can do. 

Should I put more than the wheel, a hedgie bag, his blankie, a bowl of fleece to dig in to for crickets, and his food? When I had PVC pipe in there he pooped everywhere in it. I guess that doesn't matter cause he went from being potty trained the first 2 weeks to pissing and pooping everywhere, including ON HIS BED!!!!

I took him out this morning and he was huffing but crawled on me without biting me and explored. I washed his poop boots off and fed him his treat this morning, then after 30 minutes I put him to bed (after cleaning his cage and wheel). 

I will try to put another wheel in there to see if it helps.


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## tie-dye hedgie

Do you make him stay near you during playtime, does he want to run around somewhere else?
What wheel do you have now, and what wheel are you switching to? 
Sorry for all the questions, just trying to get a better mental image.


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## karidaluv

tie-dye hedgie said:


> Do you make him stay near you during playtime, does he want to run around somewhere else?
> What wheel do you have now, and what wheel are you switching to?
> Sorry for all the questions, just trying to get a better mental image.


No worries. I use this large plastic wheel that has no gaps or mesh wire. It was from PetCo. Really big and comfy for him. Here's the kicker though--the pet store called the breeder about the trouble i was having and made me return him 

They did give me a hedgie from his litter, though, and another male. i was heartbroken but the breeder thinks something is wrong with him. I also found out that he was the "runt" of the litter, after the pet store told me that's why they pushed hard to sell him to me. They explained that he may have trouble and that it was best to exchange him. poor baby. There are two of them that were returned with Herby today, and it was a sad moment. I do have the other male now, 9 weeks old and finishing quilling. He's calm as **** and is HUGE compared to Herby!!! Herby is literally 1/3 the size of his brothers. I hope he's going to be okay.


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## LarryT

What a strange situation :?


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## karidaluv

LarryT said:


> What a strange situation :?


 It was the oddest thing. I just wanted to make sure that the pet store knew what was going on cause they asked me to check in with them, and then this. I miss herby  I guess it's time to bond with a new one.


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## tie-dye hedgie

They made you return him? How weird? :|


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## nikki

How did they make you return him? Legally they can't.


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## karidaluv

nikki said:


> How did they make you return him? Legally they can't.


here's what happened.

As you all know, Herby was quilling, had mites, and was going through puberty. He was very social and comfortable the first 2 weeks he was home, letting us hold him, pet him, cuddle with him and he could run around the house no problem. Then he was huffing and popping, probably from going through all that stuff. The past 2 weeks he's been aggressive, and getting worse. He started to bite me for no reason on all areas of my body--neck, face, fingers, hands, arms, thighs, toes, and he was drawing blood. He did the same thing to my husband. It got to the point the past four days where we could not pick him up at all, and if we did we couldn't hold him anymore because he would lunge forward or run after our body parts and attack. He'd latch on to my face, for example, and lock jaw, digging his fangs deep in my skin and blood would run down while he was still biting.

I emailed the pet store to give them an update because they want us to update them the first 3 months of taking a hedgehog home. I explained to them the situation and linked them to this forum so they could read up and see the photos and videos. This morning they called and said to bring him in and see what was wrong or if they can help.

The breeder was called when I got there because they tried to handle Herby and he was attacking badly, but one guy held him in his hands and he didn't bite hard. The breeder wanted to see Herby because his behavior is very rare and unusual, and requested that I exchange him for another one from the same litter. I asked the pet store if they could ask her what the issue was that would cause her to want me to exchange my pet, and they informed me that he was the "runt" of the litter and that there may be issues with him that cannot be corrected. He bit the guys all the way back to the pet store cage. It was sad. I hope the others that were returned are okay. Herby will be missed, but it was that or the vet was going to cut his balls off next week. They strongly recommended it because of his aggressive behavior.

This new hedgehog was just brought home this morning, but he's much bigger than Herby, about three times bigger, and looks healthier, too. I'm beginning to question pet stores and if I ever get a second hedgehog, I'm going to a breeder. I'm not alone in this experience, too. Apparently people have issues with pet store hedgehogs, from diseases to aggressive behavior. I just hope that they take good care of him.


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## Hedgieonboard

That is such a strange thing, I have never heard of a hedgie acting like that for no reason. Hopefully the pet store and/or breeder do right by the hedgie and try to find out what the underlying cause was and care for him. I probably would have kept him and got down to the bottom of it with my vet to ensure if there was a problem it could be taken care of accordingly. That way there was no possibility that they just try to sell him to someone else. You have to do whats best for your situation though so hopefully all works out well.


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## karidaluv

Thanks. I've taken him to the vet and did several tests, all normal. I didn't do the bloodwork though cause the vet said there was no need. I hope herby will be okay. 

Rex is home and very sweet. He likes to be scratched behind his ears so far. I'm letting him chill tonight since his vet appointment is tomorrow. Thanks for the support  I'm still depressed because of herby. No other hedgehog will replace him.


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## tracie

The pet store should do more than just exchange your hedgehog... he was already a part of your family. It's not like it was a gerbil or something. They should refund some money or even throw in some stuff for free.

Thats so weird, that first of all the pet store felt they needed a policy so people would check in with them about how their pet's doing... that would lead me to believe this is a somewhat common experience. and then they want you to exchange your pet like you exchange curtains you don't like... We're talking about living things. you should honestly call and see what they're doing with the hedgehog. Because it's gotta be taken care of by somebody. 

Why would they be so eager to sell it, and then be like oh whoops we made a mistake?


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## tracie

karidaluv said:


> This new hedgehog was just brought home this morning, but he's much bigger than Herby, about three times bigger, and looks healthier, too. I'm beginning to question pet stores and if I ever get a second hedgehog, I'm going to a breeder. I'm not alone in this experience, too. Apparently people have issues with pet store hedgehogs, from diseases to aggressive behavior. I just hope that they take good care of him.


Ps, i got a hedgehog from a pet store, and she seems heathy so far (knock on wood). The only glitch was that she was pregnant and had babies 2 weeks after I got her. Lol. Then the pet store "offered" to buy back the babies for our trouble. Yeah right, if they don't know enough about hedgehogs to keep male and female in separate cages, I am not entrusting my babies to them. They'd probably have babies then, too. And they did the research on the hedgehog food, they had Spike's, just didn't do the research on the hedgehogs. I'm glad I rescued her from the pet store when I did: probably saved her babies.


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## karidaluv

Funny you mentioned the male thing...the males were altogether! As for their weird policy, I'm worried. Why be so eager to exchange? It's not right at all. I will check on herby Monday. Even though he's technically not mine, I want to make sure that he's okay.


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## HedgeMom

Most likely they will euthanize him. He can't be sold, he can't be bred so he's of no use to them. NEVER return a hedgehog to a pet shop.


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## karidaluv

HedgeMom said:


> Most likely they will euthanize him. He can't be sold, he can't be bred so he's of no use to them. NEVER return a hedgehog to a pet shop.


 Those jerks! Poor guy. They emailed me today and their vet said he has a lump right below his lower jaw. It's small, but it's a lump.


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## Sela

If it was me, I'd go back and demand that they give him back. Legally, they can't take him away from you. He's your pet, and you were coerced into returning him, which is, by the way, quite illegal.

Hedgemom is right, they will probably have him put down, and that's just not right.


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## FiaSpice

HedgeMom said:


> Most likely they will euthanize him. He can't be sold, he can't be bred so he's of no use to them. NEVER return a hedgehog to a pet shop.


That's the first thing that came to my mind when I saw he was retuned. Specially if they discovered now he was a lump


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## LarryT

HedgeMom said:


> Most likely they will euthanize him. He can't be sold, he can't be bred so he's of no use to them. NEVER return a hedgehog to a pet shop.


I figured they would just wait on another impluse buyer to come along. That way they can make some more cash,we all know that's all they care about anyhow.


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## jinglesharks

LarryT said:


> HedgeMom said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most likely they will euthanize him. He can't be sold, he can't be bred so he's of no use to them. NEVER return a hedgehog to a pet shop.
> 
> 
> 
> I figured they would just wait on another impluse buyer to come along. That way they can make some more cash,we all know that's all they care about anyhow.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but would they want to risk someone else bringing him back and saying they gave them an aggressive hedgie? I don't know. I'd be really worried that they'd just give up. I'd never return a pet to a pet store, regardless of how much pressure they put on me, just knowing how pet shop animals are treated... and a pet store is certainly not going to put the time and effort into rehabilitating a "problematic" hedgehog. From what I've read, I don't even think it would be that grueling a task- Pepper was almost that bad when I got him, and he's a doll now. Given that this little guy is also quite young and quilling, I'd assume he'd turn out fine. It absolutely breaks my heart to see him given up on like this.


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## LarryT

jinglesharks said:


> Yeah, but would they want to risk someone else bringing him back and saying they gave them an aggressive hedgie?


I honestly don't think they would give a crap lol,just my opinion on it.


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## jinglesharks

LarryT said:


> jinglesharks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, but would they want to risk someone else bringing him back and saying they gave them an aggressive hedgie?
> 
> 
> 
> I honestly don't think they would give a crap lol,just my opinion on it.
Click to expand...

That's comforting, in a way... except the thought of someone impulse buying, being horrified at his behavior, and bringing him back again. Ugh, I wish I was close by, I'd take him in for sure.


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## HedgeMom

LarryT said:


> jinglesharks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, but would they want to risk someone else bringing him back and saying they gave them an aggressive hedgie?
> 
> 
> 
> I honestly don't think they would give a crap lol,just my opinion on it.
Click to expand...

Well, in MD anyone knowing selling an animal that bites is legally responsible for any and all medical care required as a result of that bite. Don't know about other states but I'm assuming the liability would still be too great.


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## LarryT

HedgeMom said:


> Well, in MD anyone knowing selling an animal that bites is legally responsible for any and all medical care required as a result of that bite. Don't know about other states but I'm assuming the liability would still be too great.


I can see your point but it would be very hard to prove the store was at fault.


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## karidaluv

I went to go get him back and had a fight with the pet store. they sent him back to the breeder!!! I was so pissed. i felt stupid, too. i mean, i shouldn't have let them coerce me into that whole exchange. i feel horrible and i threatened that if i don't get a picture of herby from the breeder when he arrives i'll report the pet store for abuse. 

Rex (that's the new one's name) was seen today by the vet after i saw the pet store. i explained it to her and she was upset, too. i think she's going to report them because i told her about the conditions in the hedgehog cage. all the males, which went through puberty, were all sleeping in the same area. Rex has a scar on his face from fighting!!  poor baby. he has no mites and he's very very social and loving. i witnessed him anointing today! anyways, i told her that the pet store has them in one area, with high water bottles and there was poop EVERYWHERE. it is like they didn't change the bedding since they got them in 4 weeks ago.

Pet stores suck. next time, i'm going to a breeder. directly.


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## jinglesharks

karidaluv said:


> I went to go get him back and had a fight with the pet store. they sent him back to the breeder!!! I was so pissed. i felt stupid, too. i mean, i shouldn't have let them coerce me into that whole exchange. i feel horrible and i threatened that if i don't get a picture of herby from the breeder when he arrives i'll report the pet store for abuse.
> 
> Rex (that's the new one's name) was seen today by the vet after i saw the pet store. i explained it to her and she was upset, too. i think she's going to report them because i told her about the conditions in the hedgehog cage. all the males, which went through puberty, were all sleeping in the same area. Rex has a scar on his face from fighting!!  poor baby. he has no mites and he's very very social and loving. i witnessed him anointing today! anyways, i told her that the pet store has them in one area, with high water bottles and there was poop EVERYWHERE. it is like they didn't change the bedding since they got them in 4 weeks ago.
> 
> Pet stores suck. next time, i'm going to a breeder. directly.


Yes, pet stores suck, but you also have to be careful with breeders. There's a lot of bad ones out there, I've heard some horror stories. I'd ask for opinions on breeders here before you decide on one.

Any idea who the breeder is? It may be the best thing, depending on what the breeder is like. I know the breeder of my parent's dog offered to take her back when she started having a lot of health problems and was willing to give her the best care possible until she passed. But she is an excellent breeder, and sadly they are not as common as they should be... especially with hedgies, from what I've heard. Fortunately there's some really great ones- and a lot of them are around here, being kind enough to educate all of us.


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## tracie

karidaluv said:


> I went to go get him back and had a fight with the pet store. they sent him back to the breeder!!! I was so pissed. i felt stupid, too. i mean, i shouldn't have let them coerce me into that whole exchange. i feel horrible and i threatened that if i don't get a picture of herby from the breeder when he arrives i'll report the pet store for abuse.


Is there any way you can contact the breeder?

Seriously, I want to rescue some of these hedgehogs from the pet store. I feel sad for them. They'll just get more though... how much are they selling them for?


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## karidaluv

tracie said:


> karidaluv said:
> 
> 
> 
> I went to go get him back and had a fight with the pet store. they sent him back to the breeder!!! I was so pissed. i felt stupid, too. i mean, i shouldn't have let them coerce me into that whole exchange. i feel horrible and i threatened that if i don't get a picture of herby from the breeder when he arrives i'll report the pet store for abuse.
> 
> 
> 
> Is there any way you can contact the breeder?
> 
> Seriously, I want to rescue some of these hedgehogs from the pet store. I feel sad for them. They'll just get more though... how much are they selling them for?
Click to expand...

They won't tell me. I wonder why! It better not be some underground breeder. I went to Exotic Pets and they have a high rating from customers. They don't sell the pets online, you'll have to come to Vegas to buy them. Still, after seeing how the cage looks after a month of that litter not being sold, it broke my heart. You think they'd take them out and play with them. all the hedgehogs have is a hide out, the fluff in the cage, a water bottle in the center, food bowls and that's it. no wheel. no stimulation.


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## tie-dye hedgie

Go back to the petstore and demand to know where the "breeder" lives and what their contact information is! If they don't tell you, take a bunch of pictures of the hedgehogs and the cages and threaten to report them with the pictures and the vet statement! The petstore shouldn't have sold you him in the first place and shouldn't have taken him away from you. They need to seriously reported and fined an outrageous amount of money for what they did to you and others! 

Just a thought, I wonder if he was biting because his jaw hurt and he was mad about that, maybe biting took some pain away? :?:


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## Sela

The reason they won't tell you the breeder's name, I think, is they probably signed some kind of confidentiality agreement with him/her, and they would be in breach of contract if they disclosed that information. I agree that it's still not right, but you have to understand that they would be liable, which is why they won't tell you.

You may be able to go over their heads and take it straight to corporate HQ. Find the contact information for their superiors and call them up. It may be the only way to get Herby back, or at least the only way to find out where he is and how he's doing.

If all else fails, you can sue. Coercion is an illegal way to obtain consent, and I'm sure there were witnesses. You can also go in when there are a lot of customers and kick up a stink. Yell at them for what they did, make sure you scream the details really loudly, and it'll alert the customers to their wrongdoings. They'll lose business if people know what they did, and will probably do just about anything to shut you up.


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## tracie

Seriously, it's ALWAYS cheaper just to keep the customer happy. I worked at a restaurant, and they were always like, "Make sure everyone leaves happy!" Seriously, you could get free food and stuff by complaining and being mad, or even if something goes incredibly wrong with your food. You gotta do something for the customer... it's bad business to just piss off people that give you money.

I think that's a good idea complaining to corporate. Hopefully they actually have a corporate. I've gotten into an argument with a manager at Denny's, he seriously pissed me off, so I just emailed the complaint department for Denny's, and I got my money back. Pets are different though, I don't think it works the same way, but that's definitely a good idea.


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