# Worse day of my life.



## AlexLovesOlive (Jul 7, 2014)

Crying my eyes out right now, went to a pet store to get check out their CHE lights... see a cage with hedgies in them go to see and pick up this little boy, he's coughing, sneezing, and can barley breath, there are bubbles of snot dripping from his nose. T he guy working had no idea about ANYTHING with hedgehogs, I told him if he took off the money to take him to the vet I would take him. He said he wasn't the manager and call back tomorrow. He was cool to the touch, I put him on my chest he instantly snuggled into it for the warmth. I want to save him so bad I told the guy he needed to warm him up and keep him at 80 degrees and away from the others he just said okay and put him back in the cage. so after I pulled over right up the street to cry and decided to go back and demand to talk to a manager, the guy comes in and picks the baby out of the cage by pinching a couple of his quills and lifting him out, then he tried to feed him a meal worm, didn't eat it, then a live wax worm, still didn't eat it, he said it was "fine just sneezing because he comes shipped to us in saw dust! it will clear up in a couple days!" I was like NO IT WON'T CLEAR UP AND YOU NEED TO WARM HIM UP NOW! the guy goes to put it back in the cage with the others and drops it in this huge water dish, laughs and just sets the soaking sick hedgehog back in the cage, he was already cold bellied!!!!! Then he said that it was fine and that it would be the full $260 dollars. I wouldn't be able to pay for the vet bills even if I had gotten him. So I am sobbing and decide to drive to the animal shelter right up the street to report them. I got there at the perfect time as there was 2 different animal control officers at the shelter. I told them what had happened and that they were neglecting it, infecting the other babies, and refused to take it to the vet or sell it to me so I could get it to the vet. The officer I talked to was extremely nice and I could tell he really cared. I told him how dehydrated he was ( I pinched his skin and it didn't move back at all, he couldn't even move he was so sick) and that I didn't think he would live another day or so without medical attention. They are going to file it tonight so they can go there tomorrow to check it out. They are hopefully going to call me.... I am still so distraught, and cannot stop crying..


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## CoffeeKat (Jan 15, 2014)

This is exactly why I don't go into pet stores or read Craig's list, because I want to save them all from abuse, or neglect, or ignorance and I know that I just can't. It breaks my heart. I'm sorry you find yourself in this situation. My only advice would be to file a complaint or request an inspection from the USDA, which has to license and inspect pet stores that sell hedgehogs. This probably will not help the sick baby you found, but it might result in better care in the future or having their license pulled.


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## AlexLovesOlive (Jul 7, 2014)

I contacted the welfare society so they are looking into their license


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## Lady (Dec 30, 2013)

What pet store is that? That is absolutely illegal. I'm glad you reported that as soon as you could. If they call you back please keep us posted. I already don't like seeing ferrets in one of our pet store (even though it's not their fault when it's usually people who drop them off), I'm terrified of finding hedgehogs because of that exact reason.

Also, it's actually a thing that if the pet store cannot keep the animal alive on their own (which obviously in this case they can't) you CAN take it WITHOUT having to pay anything because they expect you to use that money towards the betterment of the animal. I got 2 betta fish that way because fish conditions, especially betta, are absolutely horrendous, as with most, unfortunately.

I'll look into that more and report back so if you need it you can actually show them proof of that.


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## Katten (May 10, 2014)

I am so glad you were there and that you reported this pet store. Poor hedgehogs. My friend had to do a similar thing when the ferrets at the pet store she worked at were sick and her district manager didn't care. The humane society took the ferrets away from the store and rehomed them. Hopefully this is what will happen with these poor little hedgehogs.


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## AlexLovesOlive (Jul 7, 2014)

It was Scales and Tails in Castle Rock, Colorado. There were two different guys working who told me it was fine! The little cage had a red heat lamp but was probably only 70 degrees, no wheel, huge water dish, and just dirty. I was disgusted. I have never seen such horrendous conditions in my life. I wish everyone would call them or at least yelp review saying to NOT buy from them and that they abuse and neglect animals!!!! I hope they call me too... I am praying he gets the hel'l out of there asap, I hope he makes it... If they call me I will keep you all updated. I'm afraid they won't do it


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## Teddi4211 (Apr 30, 2014)

Have you heard anything? Are those poor hedgies okay?


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## AlexLovesOlive (Jul 7, 2014)

They didn't ever call me back. I don't know what to do, I might drive past there tomorrow...I would be afraid to go in after what happened. They would either kick me out or call the cops.


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## Lady (Dec 30, 2013)

If they called the cops they'd have to answer to the cops on their own poor animal conditions.

I don't want to tell you what to do or suggest anything out of place, but I would go back to see if they're even still alive (poor babies...) and demand to talk to the manager.

The part I said about being able to get an animal free if they're going to blatantly ignore it's life like that was sadly more of a regulation and not a law like I thought it was. Unfortunately it's up to the manager. However, I was able to get two fish that way, and if you wanted to try to convince the manager, I would give it a shot. I had said, "This fish is going to die if you leave it in these conditions, and I don't expect much to change about that." I explained the wrong conditions, and in the end they were just like, you really want this stupid fish take it, jeez.

They have absolutely no place laughing at the misfortune of animals. I would even call the shelter back and ask if they had any more word on it.

Pet stores should not sell pets. They should sell pet supplies :evil:


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## AlexLovesOlive (Jul 7, 2014)

I did say that it was going to die and that they didn't do anything and the guy just talked to me like I was stupid. One of my hedgie friends said to say I was in the hedgehog welfare society (if any of you are reading this it was for a good reason and I wouldn't have said it in ANY other situation) so they would believe me more that I knew what I was talking about (which I did know what I was talking about) and the guy just talked to me like I was a child and knew nothing about hedgehogs even though I have spent YEARS researching it before I even got one and 10 times even more searching and research. The manager was the weird guy who walked in from the parking lot, the one who picked it up by the quills. The kid tried to pretend he wasn't there!!! I am more afraid of going back and it did die... I don't know if I can mentally handle that. I don't know if any of you know I am the biggest animal lover ever. I spent 24 hours a day with animals, at home, at work. It will break my heart.


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## CoffeeKat (Jan 15, 2014)

They aren't afraid of the Hedgehog Welfare Society because, as wonderful as the organization is (and I am a member) I don't believe it has any authority to act on a consumer complaint. They ARE afraid of the USDA which grants or revokes their license to sell animals, and probably do not want a surprise inspection. I believe a threat to the manager that you intend to call the USDA, followed by an actual call, might carry more weight. Good luck.


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## Teddi4211 (Apr 30, 2014)

I wish you good luck, too. I love animals and would do everything in my power to help them. You said there might be more hedgehogs? Even if that one has passed, there might be the chance you can save the others. Or, if he has passed, you can still file a complaint and hopefully stop them from neglecting other animals.

I, also, have a pet store around here that doesn't take the best care of their animals. It has good supplies, and they should stick to that. Their care isn't as bad, but it isn't good.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

Agreed with CoffeeKat. I know it sucks to see animals neglected and abused, but just avoiding the store isn't going to help them. If you want to do something, continue fighting. Annoy the crap out of the pet store. Go back in there and take pictures for evidence. Send others you know to document evidence. Go back to the pet store & complain to them. Threaten them with the USDA. Call the Animal Control back and ask if they've gone to check conditions yet. Continue to call them daily or every other day until they do so. Call the USDA up and ask if they have any information on this store, their license, and if they're due for an inspection. Describe what you're seeing, send the pictures of evidence, and demand that they check out the conditions as soon as they can. I know the USDA can be difficult to get to do anything because they're severely understaffed, but it's worth a try.

Not to be harsh, but sitting on the forum wringing your hands about how hard it is to see them doesn't help the hedgehogs. They need someone to fight for them - if you want to help them, you're up in line to start fighting.


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## CoffeeKat (Jan 15, 2014)

Lady, I would be interested in seeing your source of information regarding regulations on consumers being able to legally confiscate sick animals from pet stores. It may have worked for beta fish, but I seriously doubt that a business would willingly relinquish an animal with a triple-diget price tag because someone demanded they do so. I could be totally wrong, so please see if you can find this regulation. My concern is that someone who reads your comments may try to do exactly as you recommended and without proof in hand that this IS a regulation, could end up in legal trouble.


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## AlexLovesOlive (Jul 7, 2014)

I have called the USDA, they ARE looking into their license, I have gone on every website possible telling people not to go here, I posted in every hedgehog forum possible asking people to review them on Yelp to warn others, I called and left a message with the head of the animal control in Douglas County and now I am just waiting for them to do something. I told the manager I was reporting them and they banned me from the store so I am not sure how I am supposed to go back there if I am not allowed on the premises.


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## AlexLovesOlive (Jul 7, 2014)

Not to mention Kelsey if I was "sitting around wriggling my hands" I wouldn't have done anything in the 1st place, and it was pretty rude of you to assume I wasn't doing anything about the situation when you have no idea what I have done to fix what is going on.


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## CoffeeKat (Jan 15, 2014)

I don't believe Kelsey has a rude bone in her body. She was being blunt and to the point about being advocates for hedgehogs who suffer from abuse, neglect or ignorance. It's not an issue that sees benefits from windbaggery and outrage....it requires action. As far as having no idea what you had done to rectify the situation, we only had the information you shared in earlier posts. No one is attacking you, Alex...we all feel badly about your experience and feel your frustration and sadness over your inability to do something then and there to fix a bad situation. I think sharing this experience will be beneficial to others of us who might find ourselves in this situation.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

Thank you, CoffeeKat.

As Kat said, we don't know you've done anything unless you say so. All you mentioned in your previous posts was waiting for Animal Control to call you back, and being afraid to go back to the store. You mentioned nothing about actively being banned from the store - which still doesn't prevent the possibility of sending friends & family members to take pictures and/or videos of any neglect or abuse for evidence, and for more eyewitnesses.

And agreed on what needs to happen for benefits - action. Don't wait for USDA or Animal Control to call you back. Keep calling both of them and checking in. Call every day and ask for any updates or information. Demand to have action taken. Unfortunately most offices like these two groups are understaffed and don't have the ability to respond to every call. If you stay persistent and continue to (politely) harass them to do something about it, they may figure it must be an issue that does require attention and actually do something about it.


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## AlexLovesOlive (Jul 7, 2014)

1st of all "sitting waiting for them to call me" wasn't all I said I did in my previous posts, I did mention I contacted HWS who was looking into there license and registry as well as filing a police report and mentioned I was going back to Castle Rock today which I did. Also I mentioned that if I went back they would kick me out or call the cops which is because I am banned. I can't risk going back onto their property as I am on severe probation and any interaction with Police where they were called on me, even a speeding ticket means that I could go back to jail for a very long time and I am pretty sure I can't help the hedgehogs or help the dogs I work with every day if I were in there. I work my butt of too do things for animals and I do know what it requires to get the police involved in this kind of thing, I don't know how it works where you guys live but the police departments and justice system in Colorado is so messed up beyond repair it is impossible to get ANYTHING accomplished in any reasonable amount of time. Not to mention I don't think you understand how animal control works. When they get called to a place or person neglecting the animal they must serve that person or store with a notice saying that animal must be taken to the vet and they then have to leave and come back in 4 to 7 days and make sure the owner did take the animal to the vet, if they didn't they can then seize the animal. The only times they can seize an animal on the spot is if there is felony activity such as dog/**** fighting, it's a dog who is a banned breed here (pit bulls), or if the dog is physically dying. It is pretty messed up. I went to the police office and the man who ran the animal control part wasn't there and they said I would have to come back on Tuesday but to leave him a voice mail. I did do that and then I went back over to the shelter that I originally went to (it is in the very same parking lot) and they said if they saw either of the officers I reported to they would tell them to call me I had left my number with them. I also found out I was the second person that week to complain about the treatment of the hedgehogs to the Police.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

The HWS is not the same thing as the USDA. And the HWS does not have the authority to inspect the pet store or suspend or remove their license to sell hedgehogs in the store. The USDA is the organization that handles all of that and the ones that need to be contacted about it. You said you contacted the HWS first - not the USDA. You didn't mention the USDA at all until after I first posted. Nor did you mention anything previously about going back to the store or being banned from it.

I'm glad you have contacted Animal Control, and that someone else has as well. I hope they manage to get any sick animals confiscated and taken care of if the pet store fails to get them to the vet. I understand why you're upset about the situation. But I also don't think ranting and crying on a forum does much for the animals, which was the point of my original post, as well as mentioning ways that people CAN help in this kind of situation - as much for others who may view this thread now or later as for you. Your posts aren't that clear about what you have & haven't done and the specifics of the situation, so I was giving suggestions on everything I could think of to have action taken and help the hedgehogs.


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## AlexLovesOlive (Jul 7, 2014)

I have contacted the USDA, the shelter gave me it as well as the HWS I do know what the difference I was just stating that I did say I was doing other things. And I don't know anyone who is crying on a forum and not doing anything else. When you find that person let me know.


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## Lady (Dec 30, 2013)

CoffeeKat said:


> Lady, I would be interested in seeing your source of information regarding regulations on consumers being able to legally confiscate sick animals from pet stores. It may have worked for beta fish, but I seriously doubt that a business would willingly relinquish an animal with a triple-diget price tag because someone demanded they do so. I could be totally wrong, so please see if you can find this regulation. My concern is that someone who reads your comments may try to do exactly as you recommended and without proof in hand that this IS a regulation, could end up in legal trouble.


Oh, shoot, I'm sorry I didn't even think of that.

If it's okay with the mods that part can be edited out because as much as I have searched and asked around and hoped to find something, I haven't been able to find any more on it other than pet stores don't count 6-7 dollar fish (which is much less than a triple digit as you said) as much of a loss, or in enough demand. I don't want anyone to take that too far on my own wishful thinking.

I'm super disappointed though


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## CoffeeKat (Jan 15, 2014)

http://www.aphis.usda.gov/wps/porta...s/sa_animal_welfare/sa_awa/ct_awa_inspections

This will be my final post on this thread, but it occurs to me that abuse and neglect of a hedgehog could be a subjective thing, which may be why local authorities are reluctant to get involved. If the animal is kept in reasonably clean housing, with food and water available, those not familiar with the myriad special needs of hedgehogs would likely consider that meeting minimum requirements is enough. Of course we know better. It's up to us to educate and advocate for hedgehogs, but we must initially do this with a gentle hand, realizing that being combative and superior will totally negate any message we try to deliver.

First we try to educate, then we inform ("I have no choice but to file a complaint with the USDA, so be prepared for an inspection.") Then we do as Kelsey said: we follow up again and again and again until we just wear them down. We ask friends and family to help.

Here's a link to the USDA website, with a lot of other links included, as well as a complaint form and how to file it.


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## AlexLovesOlive (Jul 7, 2014)

Kat I have already filed a complaint as stated above...twice... I filed it on Tuesday.


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## AlexLovesOlive (Jul 7, 2014)

Also, great job guys, you're probably the only people in the world who actually put down a person who is trying to do something good and trying to save a poor baby. That's not an easily acomplishable task.


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## NewHedgieOwner100 (May 31, 2014)

I honestly think that AlexLovesOlive is doing what she can. It is very stressful to do something like this and I know a lot of people wouldn't do what she is/has done. 
Kelsey was not trying to be rude but I can see how it could be interpreted as rude. 
I believe that Alex is doing all that she can and will continue to do so until action is taken. Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion, and this is just mine. We're all here for the same reason.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

I was not trying to offend you. I was a bit harsher than usual in my post - which I rarely do - because it didn't seem like much was getting done from your previous posts. I already explained what you said or didn't say in your previous posts that caused me to post my initial comment. The point of my post was to make sure action was taken to help the hedgehogs, and to make sure others reading the post see what options can be taken in this kind of situation, should they encounter one. If you're taking those actions, fine, that's good. I hope the hedgehogs end up getting the intervention they need from the authorities, and the store is properly dealt with for neglecting them. My corrections in my last post were again to also make sure anyone reading the thread are clear on which organization needs to be contacted in a situation with pet store neglect or abuse - the USDA. Given how many people visit this forum and read past threads for advice & information, we try to make sure that things stay clear and informative for many people as well as the OP. It's why often the mods add warnings to posts or remind people that such-and-such is a dangerous thing to try or something is not recommended, etc.

This is also my last post on the topic. I'm glad you're doing something to help the hedgehogs. I was not attacking you or putting you down. If you want to be upset at me for being blunter than usual in an attempt to make my point clear, go ahead. I'm not going to continue to argue or debate over what you said or didn't say you were doing though. I've been enjoying the lack of drama on this forum lately and would like it to stay that way. If you would like to discuss further, feel free to PM me.


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## lcoopman (Sep 8, 2014)

When did this happen I went to that store and purchased a healthy boy, who is doing great.


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## lcoopman (Sep 8, 2014)

Oops I'm sorry I bought him from Parker exotic pets.


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## coffeebean (Aug 27, 2014)

AlexLovesOlive said:


> Also, great job guys, you're probably the only people in the world who actually put down a person who is trying to do something good and trying to save a poor baby. That's not an easily acomplishable task.


take a deep breath.

it is very hard on a forum to really get across feelings and sometimes when we are emotionally charged we read things the wrong way. on both sides, not just you alexlovesolive.

i dont think anyone is trying to upset you or put you down intentionally. i think everyone is just very concerned and wants action taken.

you have obviously taken way more steps towards action then most people would upon seeing this in a store and for this, thank you. more people need to speak out and take action when they see neglect and abuse in both animals and people.

I hope that some sort of resolution comes from this. I hope the place gets a deep inspection.

*hugs*
http://www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


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## DesireeM81 (Jun 14, 2014)

lcoopman - Parker Exotic Pets is one of the few stores I have been to where I have actually liked their set up. I went in and looked at the one hedgehog they had there. His cage was warm, he was on approved bedding, he did have a water bottle but most breeders use those and I talked to the owner and she seemed very nice and knowledgeable. She told me she has a USDA Breeder License for hedgehogs plus whatever she needs to run her store. The only thing that worried me is no health guarantee was offered and no pedigree is available. Other than that I was impressed for a pet store that carried hedgehogs. I'm glad you had a wonderful experience there.


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## ShelbyRay (Jan 20, 2014)

This is why I am very happy that the people at my local Petco actually understand that animals have needs. Ive never been there before and had a complaint about the state of the animals. They are always extremely clean and they all always have clean food and water dishes. The workers will tell a customer they have to wait for assistance because they have to feed an animal. The only exotic animals they have are ferrets and Conures, and they're in huge flight cages and are trained to fly to the person that wants to take them out. It makes me happy to know that there are actually stores that care. Im very sorry you're in the situation you are in, and I hope for the best for all the little hedgies you saw. I hope they all find LOVING homes. In all honesty, I would have done the exact same thing (after grabbing the tank and running of course). I wouldn't have thought twice about grabbing the little one a running, but I wouldn't want one of those permanent record things. hopefully this crappy "businessman" will lose his job. maybe he should be introduced to some kind of sickness to show what that poor baby was going through.


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## AlexandPersephone (Nov 14, 2014)

I would just be a huge ball of tears.... 
You should have recorded him on your phone and threaten to put it on social media. 
I had to do that with a store that shall remain unnamed- they were selling hermit crabs in very poor conditions and the employees were just tossing the crabs around trying to pick up a dead one... Long story I got in a simar fight with a manager and recorded the whole thing. I threatened to post it on my Instagram and said I had 8000 followers... Next time I went in the hermit crabs were in much better shape.


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