# SPIKES ON STRIKE



## SSmom (Jan 3, 2010)

it will be a month on the first since i have adopted little yr and a half ol Spike from a mean mean man, hes opened up to me, alot is thanks to the great advice given on this site, ive doubled his cage size, gave him a wheel treat him with shredded carrots (like for a salad) wont touch parsely or anyhting else, i got him with hedgehog food. i added 2 different types (the names escape me, from exoticnutrition.com) and kitten food, but he just wont eat, he like yogurt, i tried liver pate a few days ago (Its a Polish thing) just a spoon full and he ate it so quick i thought he would choke on it, the problem is, hes not touching his dry food at all, i ordered my 8 in 1 ferret food its in the mail, my cat even used to steal that from my ferrets so hopefully he'll latch on to that. and the thing is since in the container has a variety of 3-4 different foods in it why isnt he atleast digging through to the kind he likes. I've cut down on the worms trying to dry him out on that a little maybe if he gets hungry **** go for the bowl, but right now hes living on carrots and pate, not a balanced diet... what do i do? when i got him he was emaciated just a lot of skin and quills.. i threw about 250 live mealworms into a 2 ft tube with paper litter and he gourged on that for a couple days but he just doesnt seem right to me, i never see him poop, not when i let him out, not when i bathe him, not on his wheel (which he adores) i need some advice. should i just stuff him up with the pate and carrotts?? buy a special cat food??????? spikes momma needs some solid advice!


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## Betsyc (Jan 22, 2010)

maybe you could soak the dry food in yogurt in the fridge overnight? just an idea! 

but they are lactose intolerant so maybe that would be too much yogurt...


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## SSmom (Jan 3, 2010)

how bout if i soaked a boal in soy milk? the lil yogurt i did give him was no more that a table spoon. no adverse affect. i did read up that they do prefer moist food, on this site somewhere, but i dono if it was for youngn's or all. im stumped he gets up in an hour, so i have until then to think.. i think jus for toonight ill give hiim 2-3 tablespoons of pate so he can eat up, and maybe by tmrw, more people will repond with ideas.


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## LarryT (May 12, 2009)

SSmom said:


> i threw about 250 live mealworms into a 2 ft tube with paper litter and he gourged on that for a couple days


You gave him 250 mealworms?


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## SSmom (Jan 3, 2010)

Reaallly?? were going there, hedgegogs like 2 dig i purchased 500 live mealworms off ebay I tossed like half of them in the tube mixed with some bedding 2' tube 1' diameter also off of ebay he was in there digging around gourging for like 20 min and then climbed into my dog dixies chew toy bed where his cuddle bed is climbed inside and went to sleep, while my blonde genius of the dog ate both the bedding and the worms out od the tube when i was not looking and i had to do a whole lot of vacuuming afterwards. NOW CAN WE FOCUS!! dry food, ideas please, i know i'm a new mom but that comment made me feel insulted..


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## LarryT (May 12, 2009)

SSmom said:


> Reaallly?? were going there, hedgegogs like 2 dig i purchased 500 live mealworms off ebay I tossed like half of them in the tube mixed with some bedding 2' tube 1' diameter also off of ebay he was in there digging around gourging for like 20 min and then climbed into my dog dixies chew toy bed where his cuddle bed is climbed inside and went to sleep, while my blonde genius of the dog ate both the bedding and the worms out od the tube when i was not looking and i had to do a whole lot of vacuuming afterwards. NOW CAN WE FOCUS!! dry food, ideas please, i know i'm a new mom but that comment made me feel insulted..


My post asked a question nothing insulting about it but I don't really care if you feel insulted :!: giving a hedgehog 250 mealworms is just plain stupid :roll:


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

I agree with Larry. A bit of common sense needs to be used here.

It sounds like he is having difficulty eating hard kibble. Try softening it with a bit of warm water.


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## nikki (Aug 28, 2008)

hedgies should only be given 2-3 mealies a day...at most...they may have bothered his stomach having so many...that may be why the trouble with eating now. With the not pooping i wonder if he's constipated ?

If i understand your post correctly...you've had him almost a month and have so far feed him, or tried to feed him - an abundance of mealworms, carrots, parsley, 2 kinds of hedgehog food, kitten food, yogurt, pate and now want to try ferret food? is this correct? If so that could be a big part of the problem. He should have been left on the food he was used to at first, then had 1 new food added...over 2-3 weeks, then another food over 2-3 weeks...etc. That many new foods in such a short time can mess with their digestive system.


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## SSmom (Jan 3, 2010)

i give up! he didnt eat but a few he was ruffling around in that tube for like 20 minutes, animal instinct im sure would tell him when hes full, plus after 35 minutes or so he climbed out and went in my doggy bed and slept. in other posts it saids hide worms in a child swimming pool for them to dig and find it doesnt say 7, or 70. i was just trying to let him have some fun, who knows how many i poured in there i shook them out of a burlap sack into the tube.. and Larry bringing people down, doesn't educate them it still makes them one level above you :lol: and as far as common sense these little bundle of quills are in reallity wild animals, domesticated since what mid 90's in the wild is their a mealie monitor Nancy? or do they eat till the have their full. when i got spike he was emaciated the guy before him never offered him meallies, so i treated him, that was a month ago, the last time he had a mealie was a wek ago. ifr you want to help please reply any other snotty remerks about my IQ take it up with someone who wants to read it!!


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## nikki (Aug 28, 2008)

African pygmy hedgehogs were never a wild animal, they are a hybrid that was developed in captivity. Other breeds of hedgehogs, that are in the wild would never find a that many mealworms at once, they have to hunt for them, one at a time. Also they were raised on a diet of insects, not had a bunch put before them all at once as adults. Any sudden change in food can cause digestive upsets.


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## LarryT (May 12, 2009)

SSmom said:


> .. and Larry bringing people down, doesn't educate them it still makes them one level above you :lol:


Whatever :lol: you need to grow up and do some research :roll:


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## SSmom (Jan 3, 2010)

Nikki your so right, it was a half full generic container that thee original owner handed me and he ddint even know the name of the brand and since spike was skin and quills i wanted to introduce a healthier diet for him to put on some weight (not be obese i dont want any more ugly posts) so im reallt trying any time have a question i come here, so now with all this diet confusion how do i straighten it out?


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## nikki (Aug 28, 2008)

do what Nancy said, and as you were told in another post...give treats sparingly, his main diet should be cat food.


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## SSmom (Jan 3, 2010)

nikki, thats what this whole post is about he hasnt touched a meallie in a weak. he won't touch his cat/hedgie food, he wont even dig through it to see if theres anything he likes. should i mush in some soy milk or water. should i judt givr him thr kitten food sepperstely? advice?


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## nikki (Aug 28, 2008)

by treats, i mean the carrots, pate, and everything else. How long since he last ate? or pooped? try kitten food, a dish of dry and a dish moistened with water. Royal Canin babycat is usually a big hit with most hedgies. the moistened food can only be left in the cage for no more than 8-12 hours because it will go sour


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## ILOVElily (Dec 5, 2009)

No one here is trying to insult you, people like Larry and Nancy are extremely helpful and very experienced. 
After feeding your hedgie so many worms, the fact that he is constipated, is unfortunately not surprising. You should stick to 1 to 3 foods in his diet, don't go feeding a random new food everyday! The little guys belly is probably spazz attack right now because of all that switching.  
If his previous owner was feeding him low quality food, as long as it does not have anything that is a choking hazard and things that are REALLY bad I would keep giving him A little tiny bit with his new food just to not upset his belly ( which is obviously to late)
You should get him to the vet ASAP just incase there is something more serious then it already is.
And everyone is right about your choice to feed ur hedgie so many mealies in one night, it is stupid :| . I'm surprised he didn't throw-up!
even 15-20 mealies in one night could REALLY upset a hedgies stomach and especially one like yours who probably hasn't had a bug in his life.
If I where you I would not concentrate on what cat foods he might like but getting him to poop and pee and drink. and getting him a little healthier in general.
You should just take vets and peoples advice and use it.


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## Herisson (Jan 7, 2009)

ILOVElily said:


> No one here is trying to insult you, people like Larry and Nancy are extremely helpful and very experienced.
> After feeding your hedgie so many worms, the fact that he is constipated, is unfortunately not surprising. You should stick to 1 to 3 foods in his diet, don't go feeding a random new food everyday! The little guys belly is probably spazz attack right now because of all that switching.
> If his previous owner was feeding him low quality food, as long as it does not have anything that is a choking hazard and things that are REALLY bad I would keep giving him A little tiny bit with his new food just to not upset his belly ( which is obviously to late)
> You should get him to the vet ASAP just incase there is something more serious then it already is.
> ...


Well said ilovelily!


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## LarryT (May 12, 2009)

ILOVElily said:


> No one here is trying to insult you, people like Larry and Nancy are extremely helpful and very experienced.
> After feeding your hedgie so many worms, the fact that he is constipated, is unfortunately not surprising. You should stick to 1 to 3 foods in his diet, don't go feeding a random new food everyday! The little guys belly is probably spazz attack right now because of all that switching.
> If his previous owner was feeding him low quality food, as long as it does not have anything that is a choking hazard and things that are REALLY bad I would keep giving him A little tiny bit with his new food just to not upset his belly ( which is obviously to late)
> You should get him to the vet ASAP just incase there is something more serious then it already is.
> ...


Lily your the smartest 12 yr old i know!
Great post


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## SSmom (Jan 3, 2010)

he ate the spoon full of pate lat night and the carrots, i moistened up the food and ill leave it till morning and well see if he evern touched it. thanks Nikki


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## LizardGirl (Aug 25, 2008)

People here are giving you good advice, please take it.  Yes, that is far too many mealies, especially all at once. (I feed Inky up to 30 a night, which is an INSANE amount. Even then I build up to that much, giving 5 more a week, until he's getting that many)

He is probably not eating because the massive amount of mealie exoskeleton in his system is blocking him up and in general making him feel sick. Is he still pooping? Have you tried giving him a warm bath to see if you can get him to pass some of it? The way you said he gorged himself on what could have been *250* mealies is concerning. Be prepared for some major stomach upsets and odd bowel movements until he's onto a stable diet.

If he is having trouble with the hard food, break it into smaller pieces, or soften it in warm water. He needs to be eating a good staple diet, and soon. A few days without eating can bring on fatty liver disease. If he refuses to eat anything, he'll need syringe fed and you should take him to a good vet. I really hope he's alright.


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## SSmom (Jan 3, 2010)

lizard girl i feel you get me i dont believe spike would eat more than 30 he was just digging, AND THAT WAS A MONTH AGO!!!!!!!!!!!!! jeez he stoppd eating 2-3 days ago i dont see how indigestion from a month ago would kicki in now. he hasnt had any mealies in a week, he gets very little carrots a night i just noticed 3 days ago that when i went to wash the wheel the bowl did not need to be refilled,afternall these posts i moistened it up. i know you guys are not trying to insult me, i just take offense because i kinda imagine what kind of life he had for the 1st yr and a half of his life, and i want to be a better mommy. and i did my research, its just out of my scope of education to know why he woke up one night and decided " im not touching my dry food.:"


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## LizardGirl (Aug 25, 2008)

That makes more sense if the mealies were from a while ago. It was the way you mentioned that as if "gorging himself on them" as previously mentioned, it sounded like that was related to why he was not eating and was obviously cause for concern. 

So he has been eating his regular food fine, but a few days ago stopped eating it? And he has been eating a bit of carrots? Just watch and see if he eats tonight. If not, might be time to start syringe feeding and vet time.

No one here is trying to offend you, we're just trying to help based on the information you've provided.


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## Immortalia (Jan 24, 2009)

How has his poop been? It's been asked, but you never answered. (yes... quality of poop really is that important :lol: )

Have you tried a good quality cat food off the list? You never mentioned what brand of kitten food you tried.
Most hedgehog food is insufficient(and usually refused to be eaten).
Ferret food is usually too high in protein.

Taking him to the vet and stocking up on a can of A/D might be a good idea as well. 

I totally understand that you want to give him the best(many of my animals are/were rescues). However, too much of a good thing can also be just as bad.


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## ILOVElily (Dec 5, 2009)

LarryT said:


> ILOVElily said:
> 
> 
> > No one here is trying to insult you, people like Larry and Nancy are extremely helpful and very experienced.
> ...


hehe :lol: thanks, thats a first. :mrgreen:


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## nationofamanda (Jan 19, 2010)

i don't want you to think i'm ganging up on you....but liver pate is probably not a great idea.

what is it, Braunschweiger? (by the way....mmmmmm.)
any way, it has a lot of sodium in it, and zero fiber...so it might be helping bind up his little bottom and making him eat less. also, it's really rich and it might have turned him off other foods because it's all tasty and junk foody.

is he drinking enough water?
i'd say follow nancy's and lizard girl's, and immortalia's advice and just simplify his diet with their suggestions. if he's still not eating and you're worried you can always take him to the vet.

you're not stupid...you made a mistake. now let's learn from em. we've all made them, it's what we do next.


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## SSmom (Jan 3, 2010)

the excrement is solid thick short worm like, average color and consistency. my cage has that hypoalgenic recycled paper bedding so its hard to find his poop corner. what is A/D i may have done research but thats never come up, is wet kitten food ok, if he'll eat the pate im sure hed love some chicken liver kitten food, it would have some of the vitamins wouldnt it? im going to the vet with my doggy dixie for her yearlies monday so as soon as you tell me what A/D is i'll get some.


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## SSmom (Jan 3, 2010)

thank you nationofamada, i made a boo boo, but i always come here for the bandaid and the scolding for Spikes ske. the pate is home made, another "back in the old country" thing lol.. my mom heard the way they process food in america and we bought a 110 acre farm with all the bulls, sheep, chickens, etc. no piggies though their too messy. is it ok to give to him like 1 a week like the mealies? he really enjoys it. you should se how he dives into it like an olimpc swimmer..lol thatnks for all your help.


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## Immortalia (Jan 24, 2009)

Hill's A/D is something the vets here sell. It's easily digestible and easy to syringe feed as well. It would be best to ask your vet about it.

I would not just pick up a random brand of wet cat food. 
Looking at ingredients and nutritional analysis are important!


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## HedgeMom (Nov 7, 2008)

If Spike is having trouble eating, please use a q-tip and do a thorough mouth exam. He could have food caught in the roof of his mouth, a dental issue or even a tumor. If you can't examine his mouth, he needs to see a vet. Please keep a close watch of his weight. If he starts losing weight, make up a soft diet and syringe feed him. 

No, animals do NOT know when to stop eating when it comes to treats or special things like insects. A hedgehog should not eat his fill of mealworms. They aren't what a wild hedgehog would eat. They are too high in fiber. And a wild hedgehog wouldn't find a motherlode of bugs in one spot. They'd find a bug here, a berry there, a larva down the road, etc. They work off what they eat by running several miles a night. 

If your pate is liver-based then feed it very sparingly. A half teaspoon every two or three weeks. Liver-based foods are exceptionally high in vitamin A and protein which can cause liver issues in animals. 

Better treats are berries, melons and pears.


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

If he is on a loose paper product bedding and you are having difficulty finding poo, switch him to liners asap. Some of them will eat those types of bedding and it can cause impaction. 
Do as Hedgemom suggests to check his mouth. Usually issues with hard kibble start after age 3 or nearing age 3, over the years I have had a few that started having difficulties before age 2 and have just had an other under 2 not having the jaw strength to crunch a full sized kibble. 

People can only give advice from what the owner posts. If you feel the answers are harsh, it is because of the impressions you have given in your post. Gorging on 250 mealworms to us, means just that because that is what we are told. Given that we all know that a hedgehog like most animals is going over indulge. Most will eat as many mealies as they are given and beg for more so having free access to them, means they will eat far more than they need and can digest properly. 

I know you want to give him the best home possible but if you keep the following in mind, you won't have any problems. "When in doubt, Don't" This means, unless you are certain about something, don't risk doing it until you have checked and make sure it's okay. There are many many posts and threads on here about introducing new foods and limiting new foods and starting slow with a new food. Hedgehogs are really no different than any animal, be it an adult, a baby and even human babies. New foods are supposed to be introduced in a small amount and slowly, one food at a time until you make certain the animal or baby is not going to have an adverse reaction. 

I always have a few cans of Hills A/D on hand as well as a supply of syringes because at any time, someone could go off their food and need to be syringed. Often this happens on a weekend when the vet isn't open so being prepared is a good idea. Hills is made for syringing so is easier to use than regular store bought canned food which needs to be put in a blender, gag, and still ends up having lumps and strings that clog the syringe.


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## silvercat (Oct 24, 2008)

SSmom, I noticed you asked about kitten food a couple times. From your descriptions (saying "the first years & 1/2 of life") I'm guessing you're hedige is about 2? For that reason I would stay away from kitten food, which is very high in fat. If you search through the food forums there's some really good things to look for on food when feeding (ie. protein quantity & fat quantity in combination with ingredients). I unfortunately can't remember the protein & fat right now, but they are lower than many foods. Generally when searching for a food I find I need to go for either the 'reduced fat,' or 'indoor cat' mixes to get the fat low enough.

Can you give us a clear update of what you're feeding (Brand name) as of now so we're not sending you in different directions? I know you recently did, but always good to do it again if there's been any change.

One thing I was wondering about when you said he stopped eating his kibble, is it that to the eye it doesn't look like he's eaten any or are you able to count the kibble?

And finally, I'd recommend listening to Nancy & Hedgemom to check his mouth/take him to the vet.

It sounds like you're trying very hard to give him a better life and that's great. Sometimes on forums someone can write a message one way while someone else reads it another. No one is trying to attack you, we're on your side wanting the best for Spike.


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## SSmom (Jan 3, 2010)

one of the hedgehog foods is lavian plus i was mistaken it was purina kitten food indoor formula the blue one then i got 2 more 16 oz bags from exoticnutrition.com and mixed it in the almost empty lvian hh food canister. as far as knowing hes not eatin g, its just visual and as i am an insomniac im usually up when he is id here him crunch on his kibble, now i dont hear it and the amount remains the same. i just removed the moistened bowl i placed last night well midnightish and it wasnt touched and i wouldnt eat it either, but the 3 spoons of pate and the carrots were gone so hes eating. as far as checking his mouth do you mean for his teeth being ground down from age? i was informed that he was almost a yr and a half, and i heard him chew on kibble befor and he bit my mole on my neck because he thouught it was a mealie so i know their pretty good, but if this has tought me anything its that i must not know much. plus when he yahns or licks i se his teeth are in pretty good shape. if something was trapped in his mouth wouldnt he not eat at all? i dono i hope this info helps i will switch to liners sounds like the best idea for now, and just wuild him a dam of litter he can dig in.


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## Bengall77 (Aug 1, 2009)

If he still has access to the pate then that's probably why he isn't eating. Think about it, would you eat a bowl of cereal with milk if there was a nice, juicy, fatty cheeseburger on the table? No, probably not (unless you are vegetarian and then lets assume it's a cheesy, bean burrito)

Take him off of all treats (except for 2-4 meal worms). No more Pate. Give him the kitten food for a few days and see if he will eat. If he won't eat then you might need to force feed him some Hills A/D (the canned wet cat food version) which can be bought at any vet office or in PetsMart by the vet clinic. You will need to buy some small syringes that don't have the needle or that have a removable needle. Switch him over to cloth liners (no towels, try an old pillowcase if you don't have any fleece or can't buy any) so that you can monitor his poops and pees. Once his GI track has gotten back to normal and he's gained a bit of weight (you said he was emaciated when you got him) you can slowly switch him to an adult food that is lower in fat. The general rule of thumb is 15% fat or less (more for runners who can't keep on weight) and 30% protein. Do not give him ferret food, it is way too high in protein and can cause fatty liver disease.

And for the love of all things sacred never give him access to that many mealies at one time again. 3-4 a night is usually the max for a treat, but some runners can eat more especially if that is the staple of their diet.

In the meantime please read through the sticky threads of this site.


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