# Please help.... Bad vet news...



## Matott1832 (Jul 1, 2016)

Okay so I am a new mommy and my little hedgehog is scaring me.... She is only about 8 weeks old and she is quiling I believe and she does sleep alot. I have lately noticed around her arms and legs the skin is yellow. I've researched it and haven't liked the things I've read about the liver and so in called a vet and they said that it's most likely liver failure and I can't do much about it. It that true? There is nothing I can do? At first I thought maybe it was a stain from the wood chips she was living in so I switched the bedding to fleece and I also changed her food from friskies surf and turf to Purina... She likes both and I have also cut back on how much food she eats
She still runs on her wheel and eats and drinks but I have noticed she is sleeping more. Am I bad mommy? If anyone can help I would be so thankful.


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## FinnickHog (Dec 1, 2014)

Did the vet actually examine her or did you just talk on the phone?

There are a few other things it could be apart from liver failure, especially at such a young age, but if the vet examined her they're probably right. I don't think they should be able to advise you on that kind of a condition over the phone. That seems sketchy to me.

Is she overweight? That would be your first red flag that something is very wrong. Can you post us some pictures, or email them to me so I can post them? ([email protected])

Also, both of those foods are really, *really* not good for her. You need to take a look at the nutrition stickies I've linked below and start following them as soon as possible if she's already as sick as the vet told you she is. There may still be things that can be done, but they'll require a decent amount of time and money, especially to attempt to halt any liver damage.

http://www.hedgehogcentral.com/forums/12-diet-nutrition/140258-artemis-ichiro-why-purina-sucks.html

http://www.hedgehogcentral.com/foru...3034-beginner-s-guide-hedgehog-nutrition.html

http://www.hedgehogcentral.com/forums/12-diet-nutrition/114530-advanced-nutrition-guide.html

http://www.hedgehogcentral.com/foru...d-may-2016-recommended-dry-cat-food-list.html

Babies sleep a lot and tend to have bursts of energy followed by passing right out, so that may not be a big concern yet, but if she is obese and turning yellow, it could be bad news.

If she hasn't actually seen a vet in person yet, I would highly recommend that you take her in before you do anything else. Try to find one who knows about hedgehogs, as they are an exotic pet and training to care for them doesn't come standard at vet school. If you're in Canada or the US, or a few other countries, we have a really good list of vets here: http://www.hedgehogcentral.com/forums/29-veterinarian-listings/

Keep us updated on what you decide to do.


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## Matott1832 (Jul 1, 2016)

Here is one picture.... And I will definitely read into what you posted.... She doesn't seem fat to me or dehydrated or anything. Just tired and yellow. Thank you for answering too. I appreciate it


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## FinnickHog (Dec 1, 2014)

She doesn't look fat to me either, just really yellow. Hopefully someone who's seen this before will chime in soon. I'm hoping she was playing in her urine or something but it could definitely be her liver . Have you tried wiping at an area gently with a damp cloth?


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## Matott1832 (Jul 1, 2016)

she balls up and it is hard for me to anything like that. Should I keep the old food in there tonight while I'm at work? Im going to go to walmart and see if I can find one of those brands tonight and start ASAP.


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## FinnickHog (Dec 1, 2014)

You'll have to transition the food gradually so she doesn't get an upset tummy. You can leave the same food for tonight, or you can do 75% the food she has now with like 25% of the new food, if you can find one. 

You'll want to do 75% old food, 25% new food for a week, and then do 50% old food and 50% new food for three days, and then 25% old, 75% new for three days, and then 100% new. Normally I'd suggest a week within switches but since something is wrong I'd go a bit faster.

Can you put an inch of water in the sink and set her in gently to see if any of the yellow comes off? If it comes off, it's really good news.


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## twobytwopets (Feb 2, 2014)

I also wonder if she might be stained from urine because that is a lot of yellow. Especially since she has been strictly on solid food for most likely no more than 3 weeks. Also babies can have a tendency to wet the bed. 
I would get a photo of her in bright natural light, give her a bath, dry her off and get another similar picture. If she is just stained from urine, the change might be subtle. 
With FLD, the quicker it's caught the better chance there is. So I would also call and get her seen by a vet that will do a blood draw. There is always something that can be done, even if it's supportive care.


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## Matott1832 (Jul 1, 2016)

I will try bathing her tonight. I'm on my way to work right now. Just really depressed I got her two weeks ago and the one breeding them said she uses surf and turf and she has had them for two years now and I just am worried all the time. If she does have a liver failure how long will she have? Is it fast?


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## Matott1832 (Jul 1, 2016)

I live in Potsdam NY and have had 5 vets turn me away because they don't work with hedgehogs .


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## FinnickHog (Dec 1, 2014)

It doesn't usually happen to babies of her age, because they've been drinking mostly breastmilk up to this point, so unless mom was really malnourished, it shouldn't be liver failure yet.

Typically with liver disorders you get something like fatty liver disease which eventually leads to failure. If it's shutting down this quickly and this early on in her life it was nothing that you've done and you need to let the breeder know, because it's likely something wrong with her breeding female, your hedgie's mom.

That's why I'm still hopefully optimistic that it's just stained fur. She looks quite pink in the middle of her tummy still. Let us know if it washes off! I really hope it does.

Yeah finding a vet is usually the toughest part. Hedgehogs still have odd legality staus there, too, so that may make it more difficult. They're illegal in the city but not the state. Would you be willing to drive out of state? They're legal in Ontario, and in Vermont there's a vet: http://www.hedgehogcentral.com/forums/31-united-states/13701-vermont.html

Ontario, just in case: http://www.hedgehogcentral.com/forums/30-canada/4964-ontario-vets.html

That said, if the yellow washes off completely, you don't need a vet.


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## Matott1832 (Jul 1, 2016)

Me too I'll post again tonight. Thank you for your help.


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## twobytwopets (Feb 2, 2014)

http://www.hedgehogwelfare.org/vets_by_state.asp?s=NY

There is the link that the hedgehog welfare society has for vets that see hedgehogs in New York. Hopefully one is close-ish to you.

I wouldn't assume that it is fatty liver until you have medical proof that's what it is. However the diet needs change irregardless. 
The amount of time though would depend on how advanced it is and what treatments are being done. Obviously, if it's really advanced or no treatment is done then they have less time.

When did you notice the yellowing of the skin? And before was she not allowing you to see her belly or was it not yellow or noticed before? Trying to figure basic onset of her yellowness.


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## Matott1832 (Jul 1, 2016)

I just got home from work and she was sleeping. I got her up and checked her out and felt like she was less yellow? I'm still going to give her a bath and get better food for her tonight but I saw more pink tonight. I can't tell if its my eyes or what? I checked in three different lightings. I gave her a cricket and she ate that right up and drank water for me. I was thankful everything was okay when I got home. Just a little concerned now because she is already sleeping and its night time.


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## Matott1832 (Jul 1, 2016)

I noticed the yellow about 3 days ago.... before I don't remember seeing it. She didn't let me touch her stomach much but I feel like I wouldn't have missed the yellow. I feel it could have possibly been the wood chips she was on before. I'm not sure what kind they were but they got extremely yellow when she pee'd or got water on them.... But could they stain yellow?


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## nikki (Aug 28, 2008)

The bedding may have stained her. Before getting to worried I would give her a bath and scrub her tummy with your fingers and some soap. Unfortunately you probably won't be able to find any really good foods at Walmart you pretty much need to go to a pet store for some good quality food. Sleeping more could be because she's going through a growth spurt or starting to quill. Don't limit her food, she's not over weight and limiting her food isn't healthy for her.


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## Matott1832 (Jul 1, 2016)

Okay so I'm going to give her the food I have for now tomorrow I'll try the pet store.... Should I stick with Purina or friskies or mix them some...


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## nikki (Aug 28, 2008)

Keep feeding her what you have been feeding her and mix it with the new food. Use 75% old food 25% new food at first. After a week, if she's eating the new food then use 50% old and 50% new. The next week do 25% old and 75% new, the next do 100% new food. Of course if she doesn't eat the new food then make sure she has enough of the old food as to not go hungry.

Liver failure isn't something that can be diagnosed over the phone, lab work would need to be done to check the liver enzymes.


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## Matott1832 (Jul 1, 2016)

Here is what she looks like this morning after trying to bath her last night ?


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## Matott1832 (Jul 1, 2016)

So I picked out the wellness food mix will that be okay.....?


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## FinnickHog (Dec 1, 2014)

That is one seriously yellow hedgehog. Did any of it come off at all? It looks like her quills are a bit yellow too.

The Wellness food is fairly good. That will work! Which flavor did you pick?


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## twobytwopets (Feb 2, 2014)

She actually looks yellower in the second picture. But that could be lighting. 
I am still hoping and leaning towards urine. 
Tonight, when you get her out, give her a good sniff on her belly or feet. 
Where does she sleep in her cage? Give that area a good sniff too. This could be a situation where the cage needs cleaned more often. Also you said you switched to liners, what kind and when?


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## FinnickHog (Dec 1, 2014)

Were you originally using those lightly dyed yellow wood chips, by any chance? I've had them dye a white guinea pig like that.


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## Matott1832 (Jul 1, 2016)

Yes I had current had the yellow tinged woodchips
... Switched about four days ago and I'm now using fleece. The cage does smell a little like urine but nothing is yet or anything..... I've made an appointment and will be in Watertown at Tuesday. The vet said she is too young for having a liver problem but they will definitely check her out and make sure. She is eating and drinking. Last night she ran on her wheel some and in her ball but that was it and slept the rest of it 
The lady I got it from said that it might just be the color she is but I seriously doubt it.


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## Matott1832 (Jul 1, 2016)

Here are pictures from today


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## FinnickHog (Dec 1, 2014)

She is so cute!

I really think she's just stained from the wood chips. She'll probably need multiple baths to get all of the color out but she does look better today.

Let us know what the vet says!


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## Matott1832 (Jul 1, 2016)

I definitely will. She seems fine just her color scares me. I'll be back on tomorrow once I'm done with the vet to let you know how it goes.


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## Matott1832 (Jul 1, 2016)

okay so I took Laroue to the vet yesterday and they didn't draw any blood but they scraped her skin and it turns out she has mites. She has been losing a lot of quills but I thought it was just quilling. They think that the mites could be causing the yellow tint which i find a little odd, but anyway she is on an antibiotic and has two doses of revolution. My little baby has been very good. It was quite expensive but worth it. One question though. With the wellness food she has barely been eating it. How can I get her to eat it?


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## shinydistraction (Jul 6, 2014)

You can put the food she was eating in a baggy with the Wellness and see if having them mixed together will help. If they smell the same she may go for it. Beyond that, you really can't make them eat them. Some of us have gone through several foods looking for one our hogs find acceptable.


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## Matott1832 (Jul 1, 2016)

Alright ill give that a shot. So do you think that mites could have caused the yellow on her skin?


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## FinnickHog (Dec 1, 2014)

I doubt it, but that's just my opinion. I really think it will gradually wash off. The fact that her tummy fur is yellow too is what makes me think it's still just staining.


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