# giving oral medication?



## silvercat (Oct 24, 2008)

I had to give Sylvie an oral medication today from a syringe (Program Susp for fungus treatment). The technician & vet both tried to give to have me hold her, hold her themselves while the other tried to give it, tried putting her in water & scrunching her neck. All we ended up with was a very cranky clicking hedgehog & many fallen quills. :? 

I picked up some freeze dried meal worms & injected the medication into them & gave the mealies to Sylvie which she gobbled up. Challenge is I had to use so many mealies that she actually left three in the bowl. The full treatment is a syringe orally every 3 weeks for 3 treatments. If I need to keep injecting mealies, that's a lot of mealies! (Seriously, we went through A LOT of mealies tonight).

For those of you who've given oral medication before, please share any tricks you may have. This medication is supposed to be unflavoured (she didn't seem to notice it in the mealies). I'd like to know for this round & for any future oral medications I may need to give.


(Note, I tried searching for tips but typing 'oral' received to many hits & 'oral medication' just gave me all sorts of stuff on medication in general)


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## LarryT (May 12, 2009)

I mixed some antibodies in some babyfood one time and it worked well..I give alittle babyfood as a treat every once in awhile so my hedgie already liked the babyfood that being said i don't know how it would work for you.


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## Herisson (Jan 7, 2009)

I just finished giving 10 days of Baytril. I injected each dose into a Zoo-med canned cricket with an insulin needle. I would feed It on a small plate and if anything leaked out I would use a baby spoon with Beechnut baby food (chicken & gravy) to pick it up so all the medication was given. It worked great for me.
http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.j ... Id=2752653


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## silvercat (Oct 24, 2008)

That's similar to what I did, but used Exo Terra meal worms. Unfortunately Sylvie has no interest in crickets. I tried the silk worms too but she just bit it in half & then left it.

Mixing it in with wet food/baby food is a good idea too


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

Could the vet not give the meds in a more concentrated formula so there wasn't as much of it? The most I have ever had to give a hedgehog was .2ml and it will fit in 2-4 mealies, depending on the size.


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## Herisson (Jan 7, 2009)

I have used chicken & gravy baby food for my rat to give medicine and it worked very well.


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## HedgeMom (Nov 7, 2008)

I've never heard of Program oral suspension being given to a hedgehog. It's an oral flea treatment and it's not very effective.

http://www.flea-info.com/products/en/pr ... _cat.shtml

There are other, safer fungicides out there that aren't off-label.


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## silvercat (Oct 24, 2008)

Thanks, I will read up on alternatives. Can anyone suggest any alternative anti-fungal medications their hedgies have been on?


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## silvercat (Oct 24, 2008)

Does anyone have any experience with Canestan 2% (Clotrimazole) cream, Tinaderm (Tolnaftate) cream, or Daktarin (Miconazole) cream?

Can anyone comment on this statement? I would rather avoid oral treatments all together & do topical:

"To start with it is important to gently soften the scabs so that the underlying infection is exposed,using Almond oil to soften it Brush off loose skin and spines with a soft toothbrush but brush in the direction of the spines not against them. Most hedgehogs find this quite soothing and it relaxes them and enables treatment to be carried out very easily.The standard treatment is to then bathe in IMAVEROL solution every 3 or 4 days, for 4 baths. Along with the baths we using one of the over-the-counter Anti-Fungals from the local Pharmacy in conjunction with the baths works very well.

Do not use oral antifungal treatments like Grisovin..."

http://www.apetforyou.ca/quilllossmitesetc.htm


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## silvercat (Oct 24, 2008)

i just noticed later on the page it talks about tea tree oil. I know not to bring tea tree anywhere near a hedgehog, which makes me wonder the credibility of the earlier comments...


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## HedgeMom (Nov 7, 2008)

Does the hedgehogs have mites or a fungus? Was the fungus diagnosed by a veterinarian by culture or by Woods Lamp? Did a VET prescribe the Program Oral Susp or did you buy it over the counter?


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## silvercat (Oct 24, 2008)

HedgeMom said:


> Does the hedgehogs have mites or a fungus? Was the fungus diagnosed by a veterinarian by culture or by Woods Lamp? Did a VET prescribe the Program Oral Susp or did you buy it over the counter?


So the story is:
When I got Sylvie in Oct she had dry skin as her owner had just treated all her hedgies with Revolution because the brother had mites.

Sylvie has had horrible dry skin since then & been loosing quills (I'd posted a while back about it). I went to one vet, he wanted to do a invermectin injection which I did not want to do - he also seemed very nervous around Sylvie so without any medications or answers we left.

I went to another vet who did a single topical treatment of Revolution in case of mites, to no effect (he also didn't see any mites).

A spot showed up on the underside of my skin where I was leaning it on Sylvie's cage & through my family doctor I found out it was yeast. I got an ointment for it & it cleared up - this is when I begin to suspect yeast on Sylvie.

I went back to the vet at a later appointment & he concluded that it was possibly digestion & 'just her body', similar to how some people have dry skin. He suggested adding flax to her food & that he would contact a vet out west who deals with hedgies for advice.

I start adding flax - no effect.

Beginning of May I get in with a new vet who has far more exotic animal experience, including hedgehogs. He explains that revolution needs 1 treatment every 2 weeks for 3 rounds. So if it was mites (while he too doesn't see any) the revolution treatments from the fall wouldn't have done anything. I tell him about my fungus suspicions but he's leaning towards mites instead. So off I go with revolve for 6 weeks.

I call the vet after 6 weeks to say the revolve had no effect & make another appointment (really is way to many appointments). When the vet sees my name on the schedule he knows it's for my fungas suspicions & begins looking through his info.

We did a brushing (soft toothbrush on her back to get flakes) which he sent with the tons of quills she's lost off to a lap in Ontario for confirmation. That will take 2 weeks.

He perscibed the Program Oral Susp. Reasoning is we're fairly certain. The susp. treats fungas but should do no harm to her as she doesn't have an 'exco' skeleton (like a flea or mite). I only got 1 of 3 doses needed a) in case it isn't fungas, not buying all them & b) because for the small quantity that a hedgie needs compared to another animal, it could go bad by the end of the treatment.

So to sum, Sylvie has had very very dry skin & loosing quills since Oct. It is not mites. I had a fungas infection on my chin from leaning on her cage. That combined with some reading here & research about fungas infections on animal's skin, I am feeling very strongly that it is probably fungas (but I"m not a vet). The 3rd vet did a fungas test, sent to the lab (we'll know in 2 weeks) & perscribed the Program Oral Susp in the mean time.


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

When they are treated with Revolution, they don't just all of a sudden stop loosing quills. It can take a few weeks or longer for the quill loss to stop as the mites damage the quill bed and sometimes it can take a while for the damaged quill to fall. 

If the test comes back negative for fungus, there is a possibility of it being hormonal. Our Emma went just about bald with skin coming off in huge flakes. She was tested and treated for mites numerous times even though no mites were ever found. She had 2 skin scrapings for fungus and bacteria and nothing was found. She was treated with antibiotic sort of as a last resort and while on antibiotic she started to bleed. Endometriosis was discovered and once she was spayed, the quill loss stopped and she started growing new quills.


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## silvercat (Oct 24, 2008)

Nancy said:


> If the test comes back negative for fungus, there is a possibility of it being hormonal. Our Emma went just about bald with skin coming off in huge flakes. She was tested and treated for mites numerous times even though no mites were ever found. She had 2 skin scrapings for fungus and bacteria and nothing was found. She was treated with antibiotic sort of as a last resort and while on antibiotic she started to bleed. Endometriosis was discovered and once she was spayed, the quill loss stopped and she started growing new quills.


Thanks Nancy. I will watch her closely to see if there's any change from any of the treatments. If the culture comes back negative I'll talk to him about your experience.


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## HedgeMom (Nov 7, 2008)

There are other more appropriate treatments for fungus. Program oral suspension has not proven itself to be effective. They've been studying it in cats since 2000 and there are no definitive results. 

There are other more effective meds out there.


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## silvercat (Oct 24, 2008)

HedgeMom said:


> There are other, safer fungicides out there that aren't off-label.





HedgeMom said:


> There are other more appropriate treatments for fungus. ... There are other more effective meds out there.


Can you speak to any? Program oral is what my vet found when considering all factors (most importantly, Sylvie being a hedgehog).


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## HedgeMom (Nov 7, 2008)

Depends on the type of fungus. Yeast is not treated the same way ringworm is. 

Does your vet not own any books on exotics that include hedgehog medicine? Griseofulvin is used for ringworm.Metronidazole is used for yeast.


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## silvercat (Oct 24, 2008)

HedgeMom said:


> Depends on the type of fungus. Yeast is not treated the same way ringworm is.
> 
> Does your vet not own any books on exotics that include hedgehog medicine? Griseofulvin is used for ringworm.Metronidazole is used for yeast.


Well I've never been in his 'office' nor has he brought books out to show me, so I have no visual proof. He is a registered vet though, deals frequently with exotic animals (both my breeder & an exotic pet store here have recommended him to me). When I came in on Tuesday he said he was 'looking up' fungas treatments for hedgehogs, which would lead me to believe he has some sort of research materials.

While I don't know about treating hedgehogs for fungas. I was perscribed an anti fungal for my chin with my doctor thinking it was ring worm. The test came back that it was yeast but the same anti-fungal could be used to treat yeast. Are you 100% certain that one anti-fungal cannot treat both ringworm and yeast?

Another thought on "books on exotics that include hedgehog medicine," are you refering to shelved medical journals? I would be far more confident in electronic research as it tends to be far more current. All faith should not be put in printed books - I'm sure some of these might still suggest using tea tree or Invermectin, both of which can be fatal.


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