# Mange advice/recommendations



## formonsiuer (Dec 9, 2011)

I know I've written about my poor Monsieur's health issues before and you have no clue how much I appreciate the help, this forum has been an absolute life saver to me.

I know when I last wrote he was losing quills but that wasn't even his worst issue (he has a respiratory infection that is now cured thankfully.) There are no good vets for hedgehogs in this area, one in the entire state, and 3 in the general 17 hour radius. I called one and had them talk my vet through the tests. The vet here did a skin test and found under his skin there was some weird goop, I believe white, and he kinda suspected mites but none were visible (and I have never seen any ever in 2 years.) I gave him an oatmeal bath (much to his displeasure) and that seemed to do good, his quills stopped falling out as badly until about a week ago...then it kind of started again.

The other night during an ingrown toenail crisis post bath (fixed just googling through this forum thank you so much) he was losing a lot of quills just in that night. I'd say honest to God like 20 from the bathtub to the hour of calming him down and fixing his toe. I figured this was stress and right as I was in the middle of it something fell on my hand, it almost looked like a quill with skin. I forgot it as I had to round him up and after I got him to bed it was out of my mind.

Well this morning when cleaning and neosporin-ing his toe (NON pain relief, totally learned that lesson) I noticed a red spot on his back, further down then the usual quill-less area. I remember the skin goop and went to see if I could find it where we'd been...and I did. It was dry, two quills with skin attached, and there was dried blood but also dried white goop like a crust.

I discovered this just a few hours ago so it was too late to get him into the vet but I am betting solid money he has sarcoptic mange. I will be on it tomorrow of course but I wanted to make sure I got everything explained here since this vet is a ditz.

1) Treatment is ivomectin shots, .02 mg per kg right? Should I also get the powder or which one has worked well for any of you? Also how much has this cost any of you, I know I'll know tomorrow but all these treatments are stretching an imaginary budget (I'll do it, but it'd give me peace of mind to know.)

2) Once he is on the shots/powder what kind of other things should I do, like any particular baths (I seen something about bleach on here which doesn't sound right to me, I also read something about 'therapeutic baths' which really wasn't specified). Any good lotions or bath things like oatmeal to recommend?

3) How do I make sure the mites are gone from the environment (i.e. no re-infestation)? My apartment was sprayed for bugs about a week ago (they do it every few months) and there was an ant run near his cage so (obviously after I moved the cage) they sprayed that area well. I cleaned all his bedding and cage right before that. Should I do it again or when his treatment is over? Anything to recommend?

4) I'm seeing a lot of sites saying 'oh tea tree oil is great cleared it right up'....this goes against all advice I ever heard (that tea tree oil will essentially kill a hedgehog on contact)....this is something to disregard right?

5) Any other advice?

Thanks so much!


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## Immortalia (Jan 24, 2009)

Never ever use or allow your vet to use Ivermectin. A simple search(located upper right corner) for ivermectin will bring you to the threads on how it has killed hedgehogs before. It is very easy to overdose, and it's a medication that affects the brain. In some animals(like collies) are suseptable to the effects of ivermectin as they lack the proper blood brain barrier that keeps the drug out of their brain, which will cause neurological disorders, and usually, death. The same seems to be for hedgehogs as well, though it can be a hit or miss, but the risk is there, and from what I've read, they're pretty much almost always fatal. 

For mites, the more popular choice is kitten/cat Revolution. 

You can use diluted bleach to clean cage and toys. But be sure to allow the everything to air out really well before putting your hedgehog back into the cage.

For baths, we really just only use oatmeal related baths, such as aveeno, or something similar. 

You are correct in not using tea tree oil. It is toxic.

As for cleaning, just clean more regularly, vacuum daily, etc etc.


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## formonsiuer (Dec 9, 2011)

Immortalia said:


> Never ever use or allow your vet to use Ivermectin. A simple search(located upper right corner) for ivermectin will bring you to the threads on how it has killed hedgehogs before. It is very easy to overdose, and it's a medication that affects the brain. In some animals(like collies) are suseptable to the effects of ivermectin as they lack the proper blood brain barrier that keeps the drug out of their brain, which will cause neurological disorders, and usually, death. The same seems to be for hedgehogs as well, though it can be a hit or miss, but the risk is there, and from what I've read, they're pretty much almost always fatal.
> 
> For mites, the more popular choice is kitten/cat Revolution.
> 
> ...


Jesus! Well thank you for the warning because seriously that's what I would have done. Those sites should be banned.

So you think the kitty revolution thing will care the mange? Or like it cures the mites which will cure the mange?


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## formonsiuer (Dec 9, 2011)

I should have known the minute they threw in tea tree oil too.

But here's the scary part: these idiot vets (here not the ones from NV, that place is actually stellar, I'm in a border state) had already recommended these shots...they probably would have been all over it. WOW...just frightening. I'm glad I don't make any move without double checking anymore after the pain relief neosporin disaster.


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## shawnwk1 (Jul 8, 2011)

Immortalia is spot on with everything said. 

If the vet suspected mites why did they not treat them that day? That makes no sense to say oh he's infected with mites, but go home without any treatment. 

Mange does happen in hedgies, but its not as common as you'd think its usually something else going on. Did the vet send a sample of whatever was under the skin to the labs? That should have been the first thing he did if he didn't. That will tell you if its a bacterial or fungal infection which is what I'd suspect instead of mange, but I'm not a vet, I'm not there to see him, and I'm only going based off what you've said. 

Have you checked out the vet listings on here? There may be a vet closer to you that you're unaware of. Wouldn't hurt to double check. He really should see a vet with hedgie experience.


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## formonsiuer (Dec 9, 2011)

Yeah their not very bright, they wanted to go with the shot but they knew it was dangerous. They didn't do it obviously.

The vet, on the advice of a vet in NV that knows hedgehogs, took a skin/blood sample and found there was some gunk but no mites, which makes your bacterial fungal idea much better. Essentially in October he began losing quills and had no other symptoms, I've never noticed mites on him and the vet spotted none with the samples either. Like for the longest time the only problem was quills falling out.

Then in late December he got an infected quill (they treated him for that with an antibiotic) and he also seemed to have a respiratory issue going on at the same time, so thus the antibiotic (I'm not sure of the name but it was a shot, 2 a day for 4 days.) This seemed to help and he hasn't had any further quill infections and his breathing seems normal since. For awhile the quills quit falling out as badly (after the shots) but then like 2 weeks ago it started up again and on the day of this toenail issue he lost a TON during that night, and before and after that it seemed he was losing more steadily.

The only bald spot he has is where it started, in the back of his neck area (like right below the head, top of the back, center). The skin/double quill falling off was on this left hip area (like towards his side). Yet nothing else seems amiss there and after one day of neosporin I can't find it, so it seemed to have healed.

We're kind of like now back where we were about a month ago: the quill loss seems a hair high but its not super bad and his toe has healed.

I really just don't know what to make of this, he was always healthy before we moved to this crap hole of a state (I also had breathing issues once I got here, higher altitude then where we came from) and while anything is possible via carpets or other issues I really have no clue where he'd pick up something...anything is possible I know but its just me and him and other than the 2 hours of ants one day I've never seen anything amiss in his cage, he doesn't run around outside of his cage or anything.

I was told to call one other vet in this town but its a rural **** hole, not much hope. I think I may just have to go to Vegas next month when I can afford it, I hope he'll be okay till then. Does anyone know what goes on with fungal/bacterial infections? Like signs, what happens, what kind of meds/test to ask for?


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## formonsiuer (Dec 9, 2011)

Talked to Keystone Cop vet, he's giving me a sample of some shampoo he thinks will do it, said it was 'really hard' to tell if it was fungus or bacterial under a microscope (thus proving incompetence.)

Since its either wait a week and blow my meek paycheck, I'm gonna try this out, try out the other OTC shampoo mentioned if this seems to not work, and also cut back on the bathing/lotioning (some of these threads mentioned over lotioning can cause fungus and bacterial infections run rampant.) I was using lubriderm either once a month to twice a month, but fearing that was clogging his skin I switched to olive oil and this has been a once a week bath and lotion session. This also happened around October, when his quill loss began so it makes me think it may be correlated.

If none of this works after a month I'm going to take him to the competent vet and confirm a bacteria infection, get him some more shots.


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## lcam85 (Nov 30, 2011)

Hi there,

How did the new shampoo work out. The quill loss you mentioned on the sides is exactly what my hedgehog is going through right now. I'm trying him on sunshine factor but I'm wondering if maybe his pores were clogged when I gave him an oatmeal bath as that is when the quill loss began. Any update would be appreciated.


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