# Rescued two hedgehogs need some advice..



## Erin132 (Feb 4, 2012)

I know this is probably a bit long, and I'm sorry, but any help is appreciated. So I picked up two new hedgies today, my first ever. They were basically a rescue as the previous owner had no idea how to look after them. They came to me, a male and a female, together in one cage where they had been since the original owner had bought them. They had no wheel, an awful half broken excuse for a litter tray, flimsy light food bowls that are so easy to tip over, and that was all that was in their cage. They didn't even have any heat source. The male's ears had been chewed by the female, and right now I'm just hoping she's not pregnant. While I've never had hedgehogs before I've kept a variety of small animals, and am in my final year studying Ecology and Zoology for a Bsc degree, so I'm not completely useless... I hope... Also I've read up on them, a lot.

Needless to say I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed. The person who passed them on to me after they had been rescued from the awful original owner took them to the vet who gave them a once over, but I'm not completely happy with it for a few reasons which I will go into. I'm going to take them to the vet but they are closed until Monday except for emergencies. As a result of this I was wondering if you could give me any advice on what might help them in the mean time..

My first concern is that their poop is fairly runny. I'm presuming this isn't normal? Also it smells awful. I don't know if it could be because of the move or because the food they were on is so bad. I'm moving them over to a decent low fat high protein one which brings me to my next question how gradually should I make the move? Will moving them on to new food improve it because it's a nightmare to clean, it's everywhere...

My second one is that the female has a swollen front right leg. I'm not sure what this could be from at all as there is no broken skin on it. She seems to be walking on it ok, so am I right in thinking it's just something like a sprain?

I'm sorry this is so long, but I'd appreciate any advice anyone could give me. This just seems like a bit of a mountain to climb with these guys right now. I hope they'll be ok


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

Oh jeeze...I'm so glad you have them now, and that you came on here. This forum has always been awesome at helping new owners and we have a couple of health experts (Nancy and Kalandra) who are amazing with advice on many things, health and otherwise.

For starters, with the pregnancy thing, I'm assuming you already have them separated. Since they've been together so long, I bet they've been mating, then eating the babies, rinse, repeat. I'm not a breeder at all, but there are some basics for if there's a possible pregnancy. She could still be pregnant, like you mentioned, so you'll have to be on pregnancy watch with her. I believe the general rule is to stay on watch until 50 days after the last known time she was with the male. I would recommend having her on bedding like aspen shavings or Carefresh. There's a risk of mites, so you'll have to watch for that, but if she has babies, you can't clean the cage at all until the babies are weaned, so a fabric liner would be disgusting by then. Make sure you have her cage someplace where you can avoid it if she does have babies. She needs to be undisturbed except for food/water changes for 2 weeks, and no wheel until the babies are weaned. There isn't any definite signs to look for as far as babies, but I know some of the signs that can appear are enlarged nipples, putting on weight, and eating more. Sometimes there's no signs and you don't even know until you hear squeaking from the cage. :lol: This is all pretty much the basics for babies and what to look for. Like I said, I'm not a breeder, so if someone who is corrects anything I've said, listen to them! 

As far as food/poop, the poop is likely from the stress of moving and everything. It may get a bit better on it's own once they settle in some. The food may be a part of it as well though. Do you know what they're on right now? You usually want to do a slow change (1/4 new, 3/4 old one week, 1/2 and 1/2 the next, and so on), but if it's something really crappy (Vitakraft hedgehog food or Pretty Pets hedgehog food, for example), it's easiest and better to just do a straight change - hedgies often do it themselves when they're offered something better anyway. A sudden change will keep their poop runny and maybe a bit green as well, but sometimes it's a necessary evil. Here's a list of recommended cat foods to use - viewtopic.php?f=6&t=15 The general rule of thumb is look for no corn, a meat or meat meal for the first one or two ingredients, a protein content of 35% or below, and the fat % depends on the hedgehog. If you aim for around 12-15% for now, as you get to know them and their size/weight, you'll be able to tell whether they need higher or lower based on whether they gain/lose/stay the same. Their poop may improve once they're on a better food, like you said. The smell may be from too-high of protein, crappy ingredients, or fish ingredients. Some hedgehogs do just have smelly poop though.

I'm not sure with the female's leg, to be honest. It could just be a sprain, but I have no experience with anything like that. My best suggestion is, barring any suggestions Nancy and/or Kalandra may have about it, getting her into the vet would be the best thing for her, just to make sure it's nothing serious. Doesn't sound like it's horribly serious though, if she's using it.

Again, I'm glad you got these two! I hope they start doing better with you and you remain baby-free! You'll have to keep us updated on them. 

Edit - Don't feel bad about a long post, look, my reply is even longer!  :lol: I tend to talk to much, so I apologize.


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## Erin132 (Feb 4, 2012)

I'm glad I found this site alrite! I'm from Ireland, and there are pretty much no sites like this one for us, but the UK sites didn't really seem as well rounded as this one. Yeah I'm so glad I managed to get them. I was originally only going to take one but then realised from talking to the lady who was rehoming them that they were in a pretty bad way. After I figured that there was no way I couldn't take them both! Yeah the first thing I did was separate them, even if there wasn't the whole pregnancy thing on top of it it just seems awful to have them cooped up like that  God the poor babies if she has been eating them.. Thanks for the heads up on the shavings, I'll get some first thing in the morning. Knowing my luck now there'll be no sign at all until BAM hoglets galore! 

I don't actually know what particular brand they're on. I was just given a plastic bag with some in for them, but the lady said it was awful cheap stuff from aldi. I gave them that today because I wasn't that sure what to get them yet and didn't want to spend money on something that wasn't good enough. I'm going on a mad shopping spree for them tomorrow. I'm debating just doing a straight swap once I get it because their stuff is soo bad... I have a feeling there are fish ingredients in it alright, so that could be it smell wise :/ I'll need to give them a good bath as well because they stink themselves.. are there any particularly good shampoos to use?

I'm going to take them in to our vet anyway just to be sure to be sure as they say  Also because I don't want the male's ears getting all infected.

Thanks so much for all your help, I feel a lot better about the whole situation. When I brought them in they were freezing cold, all sluggish and shaky, but they're already after perking way up since I warmed the cage. Hopefully it's a sign of good things to come


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

If you just got them today, the runny smelly poop would not be stress related quite yet. How runny is it? Is it formed and just really soft, or is it mostly diarrhea? It could be from parasites or an intestinal infection. I suggest taking a sample from each of them to the vet. Since they have been caged together, if one has something both will need to be treated. 

The girls swollen leg could be from an injury, an old improperly healed injury or tumour. Is the leg or at the joint? 

Treat her as pregnant and get as prepared for babies as you can, but getting them both healthy will be the first priority. Make sure to not go over 35% protein with the food. 

Good for you for taking them both. It is very normal to feel overwhelmed right now but you will do fine and they will be a thousand times better off than they were.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

Personally I'd hold off on the bath for at least a few days unless they're covered in poop or something. Baths are stressful for most hedgehogs since most don't like water at all. Once you do bathe them though, a lot of people on here like to use Aveeno oatmeal body wash for humans. It's moisturizing, which is great since hedgehogs are pretty prone to dry skin, and baths tend to dry it out even more. 

Also, I'd mention to the vet about the temperature thing. Being kept in cooler temps for a long time can put them at risk for a URI, so keep an eye out for symptoms for that - running nose, sneezing, congested breathing, etc. 

Glad you posted Nancy, sorry for my misinformation with the poop!


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## Erin132 (Feb 4, 2012)

Thanks for all the help guys I really appreciate it! They've begun to settle down now, I don't think Ghost is loving being separated now from Nymeria though  I wanted to move them over to new food straight away but the pet shops near me are out of stock with all the good Royal Canin stuff and don't seem to stock any of the other suitable brands at all! 

Poop wise things seem to be looking better now although they're still pretty soft, about the texture of toothpaste. When I let Ghost out for a run he seems to drop tiny little poop dots that are liquid all over the place.. is this normal?? Nymeria seems to be doing better but I've noticed she has a bit of a runny nose now  I'm trying to get an appointment with the vet but I can't seem to get on to them.. They must be pretty busy. Is there anything that I can do to help her in the mean time? I really don't want it to develop into a URI :/. 

Also wheel wise. I'm still trying to find decent wheels for them. I've seen reports that the silent spinners are bad for them? Is that true? If so what wheel would be the best? I like the look of those bucket wheel things but I don't know do they ship to Ireland.

Thanks so much for all your help guys. And Lillysmommy I'm so sorry to see that Lilly has passed on, I hope you're doing ok.


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## shaelikestaquitos (Feb 2, 2010)

I can't give any advice, but you have Nancy and Lilysmommy helping you, so you are in good hands.

I'll be sending healing vibes over your way~ Please keep us updated on the two hogs!

EDIT:
I can help with the wheels. Yay!
Silent Spinners are very dangerous, even though they are the most widely available wheels, unfortunately  I don't know what they have in Ireland, but I'd look for a wheel with a solid surface like the Comfort Wheel or the Flying Saucer. I believe LarryT (Carolina Storm Wheels) does ship to Ireland, but shipping is very expensive and the wheels may take a while to get there.


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## Erin132 (Feb 4, 2012)

Ok good to know about the silent spinners so I will be stearing WELL clear of them! Pity because they're so easy to get  I know there's a pet shop near by that does sell chinchillas so they might have something like a flying saucer!

I got my dad to take a picture of Ghost, I left Nymeria alone because she's sick s I didn't want to stress her any more. Ghost seems hale and hearty anyway although if you look at the picture you can see how chewed his poor ears are.



http://imgur.com/V5FH8


Thanks for the healing vibes  Nymeria seems a bit more active today!


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## shaelikestaquitos (Feb 2, 2010)

Oh my, what a handsome boy <3 He looks like he's smiling in the picture ^_^


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

Awww, Ghost is adorable!! Wanna give him hugs for those poor ears though...  

For wheels, another option is making your own bucket wheel or cake cover wheel. There's lots of videos on Youtube that show how to do it, so if you're interested in that at all, it might be a good possibility. The toothpaste-like poop is more normal-sounding, but the liquid poop droplets doesn't sound normal. If she has a running nose, it may already be a low-grade URI, I'm not really sure of anything you can do to help now except keep her warm and get to the vet as soon as you can. Keep bugging them until you get through!

And thank you.  It's getting a bit easier, but still really missing having my cuddle buddy around here. I got to go visit a friend with hedgehogs a couple days ago, so that was nice! Got a hedgehog fix to last me awhile. :lol:


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## Erin132 (Feb 4, 2012)

Haha yeah the picture came put nicely. You can't tell how huffy he was about the whole thing though  I'll have a look at how to make it to see if it'll be possible for me. I've found an Irish website that sells the flying saucer wheels and if I get 2 I get free delivery so I might go down that route. Aw lovely, gotta love hedgies! I've only had my guys two days and I already know I'd miss them like crazy if something happened to them. I finally got on to the vet but they said they don't know enough about hedgies to be comfortable treating them.. SO now I'm trying to find a vet that WILL look at them...


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

Ghost is very handsome. His ears may not be chewed but simply a gunk and dry skin build up. A bit of vit E oil, Flax seed oil, or vaseline rubbed on the edges daily for a few days and it should start to come off. 

I agree with the vet visit if she has a runny nose. She possibly already has a URI.


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## Erin132 (Feb 4, 2012)

Thanks so much for the tip! I'll try putting some on tonight. Yeah I'm really struggling to find somewhere good to take them. I'm sure I'll find somewhere soon though. Guess this is the joy of getting hedgies at short notice. not enough time to prepare...


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## Kalandra (Aug 25, 2008)

There is a black spot on that one ear, it looks like it may be a scab. While yes the ears may have gunk build up on them, if he won't tolerate you touching his ears, in all honesty, I wouldn't bother with them just yet. I would ask a vet to look at the ears while you are there to ensure that the black spot is just a scab and things look like they are healing ok.


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## Erin132 (Feb 4, 2012)

I managed to get an appointment for tomorrow so we'll see how that goes. I put stuff on his ears and the black scab thing just came off! Will have to see how tomorrow goes.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

Good luck at the vet's. Let us know what the outcome is please! I keep thinking of you with these two little ones and hoping they get settled in and healthy very soon.


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## hedgiebum14 (Jul 25, 2011)

Poor hedgies! D: im glad you were able to get to them
Before the worst happened. >__< i recieved my hedgehog pregnant and she had four hoglets, unfortenutley, the worst happened and she rejected them. Im not an expert so the best i could do is to tell you to keep the cage at 75-80 degrees ferinhieght. Im pretty sure you know the basics. Itll be best to get a decent vet to check up to see if theyre not sick or ingured. Best of luck


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## Erin132 (Feb 4, 2012)

So I took them to the vet today. As expected Ghost is perfectly fine apart from his ears. I was told just keep putting stuff on them and they should right themselves. As for Nymeria, he checked her over and he gave me an antibiotic for her. I think it's baytril? It's going to be interesting trying to give it to her. He felt for babies and couldn't feel any so that's something at least. As for her leg he wasn't too concerned about it because she's able to walk on it fine so I'm just to keep an eye on it over the coming days. I've to go back to them in about 5 days to give an update  Hopefully this will help her.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

Glad to hear that Ghost is a healthy boy! And that you got some meds for little Nymeria. Something extra you could do for her is get some human probiotics at the pharmacy, if you can find them. Should be powder that comes in little caplets. You can give her a pinch of probiotics in between her antibiotic doses, and it'll help restore the healthy bacteria in her stomach/gut. Antibiotics can give them some nasty poop and upset stomachs, so this might help her out a bit. Also, if she's really resistant to taking the meds, it can help to mix it with something to mask the taste, like baby food or watered down canned cat food. I hope she starts feeling better soon!


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## PJM (May 7, 2010)

Ghost is just precious. I'm so glad they have found their way to you. Sounds like they will be so much happier now.


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## EinsteinsMama (Jan 18, 2012)

Bless your heart for taking on two rescue hedgies <3


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## Erin132 (Feb 4, 2012)

Thanks for the well wishes  I managed to give Nymeria her antibiotic last night. She was so good she took it like a champ! I had just one more thing I was wondering about them and it has to do with Ghost. Even though the vet said he was grand I was wondering is it possible to tell if your hedgie is blind? I was just wondering this because when I let him run around he will literally run head first into things. When I give him a treat like a mealie he wont react until I practically put it in his face and then he lunges at it just about taking off my fingers. If I drop it unlike Nymeria he wont look down and eat it he keeps his head up as if I'm still holding it above him.. Maybe it's just nothing because his eyes don't look cloudy or anything and I know hedgies have notoriously bad eyesight as it is.. but I alsoo know it's a problem albinos can have :/


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

In hedgehogs, albino is a colour, same as any other coloured hedgehog. They have no more health risks or blindness issues than any other. They are not like other species of albino animals that do have issues because of their albinism. 

Not being able to find a mealie held in front of his nose is very normal. Some hedgehogs just seem rather clueless and have difficulty finding the mealie that is right in front of them. Others can grab it in a split second. This has nothing to do with eyesight, possibly more with smell. 

Running into things when out can certainly be a sign of blindness, but most of the time, blind hedgehogs adapt very well. One way to tell is to wiggle your fingers in front of his face. Make certain your fingers don't rub against one another to make a sound, and don't wiggle so fast that you make a breeze. If there is no reaction, very possibly he is blind. 

My blind girl KeiLei, who is albino and has probably been blind from birth, navigates every where no problem. Sometimes I can wiggle my fingers in front of her and she reacts, other times not at all. I had the vet check verify her blindness because it was so difficult to tell for certain.


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## Erin132 (Feb 4, 2012)

Ok that's good to know I had assumed that albinism in hedgehogs would be like other animals that way! Thanks for the advice he seemed to notice when I wiggled my fingers or when I leaned over his cage so maybe he's just a bit special :lol: Either way the two of them seem to be doing a lot better now. Nymeria's nose seemed less bubbly already yesterday so things are looking up! I also managed to pet her without her spiking me and Ghost fell asleep on my lap so I think we are finally starting to bond!


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

That's great news!


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## Erin132 (Feb 4, 2012)

Just when I think things are looking better I notice another problem :roll: I was giving Nymeria her antibiotic and I noticed a smallish patch between her shoulder blades where the quills are missing and the skin looks dry. I don't think it's mites because the vet gave her an antiparasitic thing while she was there. Could it just be dry skin? I'm reluctant to bath her while she's still sick :/


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## Erin132 (Feb 4, 2012)

*UPDATE: Rescued two hedgehogs need some advice..*

So I finally got some answers today. After trying vet after vet since February I finally found an amazing vet with a specialised exotics vet! Nymeria's respiratory infection returned last night. I kept her as warm as possible and made an appointment for this vet and took her in today. As expected he gave me antibiotics for that. He also looked at her swollen legs and FINALLY someone was able to give me some answers about what the problem was (other vets kept telling me it was just a badly healed break on both legs but I didn't think so)!

He said that she had lost a toe on the back leg that is swollen. He reckons it was either because she had the wrong wheel and it got caught somehow, or because someone tried to cut her nails and it went really badly wrong, or something similar. Either way because she was so badly neglected it got really really infected. He said that the infection caused what he called "septic arthritis". This infection then spread to her front leg, and it got to the point where both are now deformed. He's given me some anti-inflammatory stuff with painkiller in it to give her. We're to try and see is there any improvement. If there is and she can have some bit of quality of life then that's fine. If not then we'll have to put her down. He said she's really up against the wall because she had such a bad start, but at least we're trying everything


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## shetland (Sep 2, 2008)

I am so glad you finally found a good vet. Hopefully Nymeria's respiratory infection will be under control quickly and she will have pain relief in her little legs too. Such an unfair burden for such a little, innocent hedgie. They are so lucky that you came into their lives. Keep us updated please!!!!!!!!!!


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## Erin132 (Feb 4, 2012)

Thanks  She had 2 injections and will be on antibiotics and anti-inflammatories plus a calcium and phosphorous supplement that he thought would help her so fingers crossed she will be ok! I'll try keep ye updated


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## PJM (May 7, 2010)

It's wonderful to get an update. I really hope she feels better soon. I'm happy to see that you've stuck with them. So glad they found their way to you.


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## Erin132 (Feb 4, 2012)

Thanks it's good to get some encouragement, thanks  One more thing *sigh* haha We also discovered today that she had some sores on her tail. I hadn't noticed it before because she normally keeps it kinda hidden. The vet said that the antibiotics would help clear them up but in the mean time is there any cream or something that I could put on it to help it heal?


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