# Quill loss continued since Nov 2008



## smhufflepuff (Aug 28, 2008)

You'd think little Satin would be completely bald by now; fortunately, she keeps growing more quills. But never fast enough to replace the ones she's losing. At my previous postings, she had a couple more concentrated spots of quill loss and the beginning of a general thinning. Currently, she has thinning all over with no spot much more bare than the other.

A new symptom emerged up as her quills continued to fall: very dry skin. Her skin not only appears dry and flaky, it appears thickened. As this hasn't responded to flaxseed oil on her kibble nor an oatmeal bath, I brought her to the vet.

The history leading up to this is posted at: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1136 and viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1236. In short, she began losing quills in November along with some weight. She had dry skin successfully treated with an oatmeal bath and topical flaxseed oil. I brought her to the vet who found bacteria in her urine. She was on Baytril; that cleared up the bacterial infection. But she kept losing quills. The vet did several skin scrapings. They all came back negative for mites. The vet did a skin biopsy and found some evidence of yeast, but not enough to cause her to want to treat it. She, instead recommended diet changes: "hedgehog pellets" more crickets and mealies and beta carotene. We treated her with Revolution as a preventative measure. She now weights 620g (down from a max of 680g; though she usually weighed around 660g) and has been stable at that weight for one month.

Back to the vet visit yesterday... Her vet is concerned and has reached out to other vets for consults. What was decided is that the yeast infection has taken over. To counter this, Satin is now prescribed:

1. Sunshine Factor (it's replacing the drop of beta carotene from the capsules made for human consumption; its red palm oil and, purportedly, is more readily bioavailable to hedgies than it is in the other form) - a couple drops added to her kibble 1x/day.
2. DMG (stands for Dimethylglycine - another vitamin boost for hedgie) - 0.15cc/day. She was on this before at 0.3cc/day, but it made her poops messy, so I had discontinued that with the vet's okay.
3. ketoconazole 6mg/0.5cc suspension (intended as an antifungal; compounded to taste like roasted chicken) - 0.5cc/day orally.
4. hexadene antimicrobial cleansing shampoo - one bath/week.

I gave #'s 1, 3, & 4 to her last night. She was unimpressed with the bath, as usual. But didn't act much more displeased than usual. Her skin doesn't look terribly different today. I didn't get to #2 last night as I could tell she had quite enough of everything already. I plan to space that out at a different time - maybe mornings.

She didn't poop much at all last night; I didn't see any evidence of peeing either. So I'm a bit concerned that it could be medication side-effects. Has anyone used these meds before? I don't recall anyone posting about #3 and wanted to check in with folks on that... particularly as my google searches on "ketoconazole" and "hedgehog" turn up weird things...


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## JackJack (Feb 17, 2009)

Are you feeding her hedgie food? From what Ive learned in here, hedgie food is generally bad for them, some actually kills them. If you're still feeding her that, it could be affecting her negatively.
Just a thought.


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## JackJack (Feb 17, 2009)

Im sorry about your little one! Sounds like you're doing your absolute best for her though  She has nothing to worry about.
Im stupid and forgot I had read your other post and obviously you know what not to feed your hedige. My bad!


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## smhufflepuff (Aug 28, 2008)

No problem JackJack. She does have Spike's Delite Premium, but I'm continuing with the CSCLS lite and Wellness Indoor Cat. She really does prefer the CSCLS over the Wellness and both of those over Spikes. 

Happily she peed for me when I had her out for play time. Not so much poop though  For now, I'm going to hope I wake up to a super poopy wheel.


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## Reaper (Aug 22, 2008)

I am actually very familiar with yeast/fungal infections. Don't use antibacterial wipes or soaps anywhere near her. Boost her intake of acidophilus live cultured yogurt would be best. Now this next suggestion is something I would do but you can be the judge. Go get some real original non-flavored Listerene. It is a natural anti yeast/fungal. Put a cap full in a sink full of water and dunk her in it. It really does work.... on humans anyway. I have yet to need to do it to a hedgie but I would in a heartbeat. Don't get it in her eyes as it would sting. But otherwise is perfectly safe. You can also put a curly light bulb of about 100 watts on her cage during the daytime. The UVA output is high and kills some yeasts and fungus. I know they sleep hidden from the light but every bit helps. Keep her cage as dry as possible. Yeast/fungus like dark, warm, moist areas. So you need to make the yeast/fungus home as inhospitable as possible. Change her liners, litter often. If possible wash everything in hot water with a little bleach to kill everything. Sometimes yeast/fungal infections can be an ongoing war. But if you stay persistent you will see results.


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## shetland (Sep 2, 2008)

I keep hoping little Satin will start recovering from whatever problem is causing her quill loss. Such a pretty little girl! I remember her birthday pictures being held by Mommy and falling asleep on Mommy's arm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## smhufflepuff (Aug 28, 2008)

Satin would like you to know she is still a beautiful girl... 
[attachment=1:2qtidc0h]satin 021609 (Medium).jpg[/attachment:2qtidc0h]

even with so many quills in her quill bowl...
[attachment=0:2qtidc0h]quill bowl 022809 (Medium).jpg[/attachment:2qtidc0h]


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## silvercat (Oct 24, 2008)

How is Satin now? How did the Sunshine factor result? The vet here just recommended it for Sylvie, who also has dry skin, quill loss, slight yeast & no mites. I was hesitant to get the product until hearing others' experiences


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## smhufflepuff (Aug 28, 2008)

I'm not sure how much it helped since she's been on so many different things in addition to it. But I'm pretty sure it doesn't hurt and Satin loves like how it tastes. If I open the little bottle too close to her, she'll run over and try to eat it straight out of there. Silly hedgie :roll: 

Her quill loss has slowed down tremendously. She had been losing between 15 and 30 (sometimes over 30) quills a day. Now I just find between 0 and 4 a day. Yippee for Satin.


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## LizardGirl (Aug 25, 2008)

Yay Satin!  I really hope she is getting better. That is an awful lot of quills to lose.


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## SunRayz (Jan 30, 2009)

I also have a hedgie who is loosing a lot of quills, I did a search for the Sunshine Factor,and all I could come up with is a bird supplement. 

It is only used to help fight a yeast infection?


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## GoodSmeagol (Dec 29, 2008)

Reaper
As per your UVB suggestion, 
I would like to share knowledge gained through the bearded dragon community.
Compact Florescent Bulbs (Spiral light bulbs) the standard bulb used to light houses, the UVB they produce is very limited in the distance it can travel. To get any benificial UVB penetration, the bulb would need to be mere inches from the hedgehog. 
Compact Flore bulbs were then released to produce elevated UVB levels, reptiles in mind.
The bulbs were a huge hit in the lower end side of the herp trade(the casual hobbiest who gets info from petstores), and I personally have conversed with 3 or 4 people on forums, who had their animals eyes injured under the UVB the bulb produced. They have been greatly shunned since for their side effects.

If UVB will truly be beneficial to this hedgehog. I would suggest a mercury vapor bulb(marketed as MVB), hung 3-4 feet above the play area you take it out to(assuming you take it out when the lights are on)
**Closer then 24" will have the same effect as the CFL(injured eyes)

I hope to read updates on your hog, good luck.


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## silvercat (Oct 24, 2008)

As for Sunshine Factor, there's the bird one & a second version (Health X or something), that is the EXACT same, with the exception of the logo not having a bird on it so they could increase the market. The vet I was speaking with recomended it for dry skin in general.


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## smhufflepuff (Aug 28, 2008)

Hi all,

Satin was finally pronounced "healthy" by her vet yesterday morning. Skin looks a bit dry, but okay, quill coverage good (she does have a little bare spot where the biopsy was taken), activity and behavior well within normal limits, good weight, etc...

She was such a sweet little girl after getting over her initial "hey, I'm supposed to be sleeping; instead you took me on a car ride!" huffy-puffy reaction. She climbed out of her hedgiebag and investigated the vet (new vet by the way) as we spoke, played with housemouse (her stuffed animal), and snuffled about.

Yippee for Satin 

[attachment=0:2m3azvas]satin 2.0 birthday 032609.jpg[/attachment:2m3azvas]


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

Aw, that's great to hear!  Good job, Satin!


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

That's great news.  Was there a verdict of what was wrong?


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## smhufflepuff (Aug 28, 2008)

Nancy said:


> That's great news.  Was there a verdict of what was wrong?


Not a terribly clear one... no single answer. Best we can figure is that seems like it was seasonal dry skin (particularly given the forced air heating from where we lived) that was compounded by a UTI, shortly followed by (or perhaps starting around the same time) a yeast infection. Poor little one has been through so much with quills falling out and becoming bare in the back end. She's been quite the trooper though... always running and pooping like a good little hedge-a-ma-hog. But gosh, if you figure the percentage of her life span that she's endured this episode... wow!


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## shetland (Sep 2, 2008)

I am so happy for both you and little Satin. Yes indeed, she has been through so much for one little girl. Now your beautiful little one can have some well deserved peace in her life. I hope both you and Satin enjoy your summer!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Linda_OwnerofXena (Nov 25, 2008)

I am just reading this with interest as my little one seems to be going through the same. Do you know what treatment eventually cured yours...?


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## smhufflepuff (Aug 28, 2008)

I think it was a combination that ended up helping her after she made it through her UTI: she has a UV light, I kept her house and her little body clean and dry, and we added a number of meds & supplements: ketoconazole, Sunshine factor, and DMG.

And plenty of love and mealies


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