# Merrick Cat Food



## WinterGalaxy (Aug 10, 2015)

I'm getting a hedgehog soon and I'm planning on feeding it Merrick chicken flavored cat kibble, which I made my mom buy for our cats because I believed it was high quality and had good ingredients  . I figured it was perfect since it was high quality, and now we already have a huge bag on hand from which I could steal food from for my hedgehog XD. If the hedgie liked it, it would totally be a win/win. 
Now, if you will excuse my rambling, here's the problem. The ingredients, as I said, are not a problem in my eyes. I did a load of research on nutrition when we got our dog, and a bit of nutrition research for hedgehogs, and I believe they are sufficient (although correct me if I'm wrong!). My biggest worry is the huge amount of protein it has.
Here's a link to the page on the website for the cat food

Crude Protein (Not Less Than):	40.0%
Crude Fat (Not Less Than):	14.0%
Crude Fiber (Not More Than):	7.50%
Moisture (Not More Than):	11.0%
The protein is at 40% already, even before the DMB is calculated. I calculated it earlier today, so if my memory serves me right, then the actual amount of protein is actually around 44%! Much higher than the recommended 35%. 
The fat balances out at a nice even 15%, which I believe is a plus - if the hedgehog falls ill, I do want it to have a bit of extra weight to lean on. (But, yikes, not too much extra fat XD)
The fiber was also worrying me a bit, as it seemed to be on the low side. But when I tried to calculate the DMB, the calculator was throwing me weird numbers, so I gave up. 
Anywho, all that typing and I just simply wanted to ask the question: will those numbers work for a happy, healthy hedgehog?


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

It's really recommended to do a mix of at least two foods for hedgehogs, in case something happens to make one of the unavailable, and to give them a more rounded diet. So my answer is...yes, that food is fine. But I would suggest getting a second food with a protein of 30% or below to mix with this one. That will help lower the overall protein percentage of the mix and help to prevent any possible issues (which would mainly be an issue if your hedgehog was susceptible to kidney issues...which you can't know until they have problems, which is why we try to keep dry food protein low). And that way if Merrick has an issue (recall, store can't stock it anymore, etc.), you have another food your hedgie is used to.

Also, regarding DMB, the 35% recommendation that's always been given is without calculating DMB. And to be honest, I don't worry about it much with dry food (because there's so little moisture in the food to begin with), and I don't worry as much anymore about high protein with wet food, since I learned more about the issues with high dry protein. High protein with dry food is an issue because it requires more water to help the kidneys process it, which is the reason for the 35% limit recommendation. I consider it a lot less of an issue with wet food because there's much more moisture in the food to help the kidneys with dealing with the protein. If you look at animal meat & insects on a DMB basis, they're pretty high in protein, but it's less of an issue (with live/frozen insects, anyway, not freeze-dried) because the moisture they contain help out.

(Sorry, I just wanted to ramble about that a bit because I've been seeing DMB pop up a lot recently with not much mention as to why to calculate it or what to think of/do with the values you get from it. And all of that is just my opinion too. )


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## WinterGalaxy (Aug 10, 2015)

Ok, thanks, that's really helpful information! I'll look for another good food to mix in a bit, as you said. I've seen a lot of breeders use a mix, this one guy used a mix of like six foods (too much responsibility for me, really, lol), but it makes sense why.
And you're right, if the recommendations are without DMB, I'm not sure why they're used much. But I guess on a professional level it kind of brings everything down to a level plain.


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## writergirlmel (May 16, 2015)

Lilysmommy said:


> (Sorry, I just wanted to ramble about that a bit because I've been seeing DMB pop up a lot recently with not much mention as to why to calculate it or what to think of/do with the values you get from it. And all of that is just my opinion too. )


That's probably my fault because I've been giving a lot of "nutrition lessons" lately, and the DMB is my _personal_ preference. Most of the time, it doesn't cause a big jump in dry food, but when it does make the protein go slightly over, I usually put that food on my "caution" list -- meaning I don't rule it out but usually look for another option that's a little more ideal unless there's something else about it I love.

And since I never actually knew for certain whether the 35% recommendation was with or without calculating the DMB, I never made the distinction.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

I told TwobyTwo, I don't want to discourage anyone from checking DMB numbers if they want to!  There's nothing wrong at all with calculating it, I agree it's a personal preference thing. The reason I don't like to push it much (or like to at least point out that it isn't necessary to calculate in most cases) is because nutrition can be overwhelming for a lot of people, especially new owners who haven't had a pet of their own before. I don't like to confuse them with even more stuff to look up or figure out. But I do think it's useful if you want to compare between dry food & wet food (canned or cooked meat, etc.), or if your hedgehog is susceptible to kidney issues, or if you just want to be extra cautious about protein content. 

And actually, I was going to go back & check to see who was the first one (you or Twobytwo...I thought you, but then I couldn't remember :lol to write out the numbered list about how to choose a food, including what your personal goals are for the food. Now I can't even find where it was... :roll: But I really liked it & was going to ask whoever typed it up if I could possibly use it in one of the Nutrition stickies (I think I'm going to start revamping them a bit today).


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## twobytwopets (Feb 2, 2014)

I think it was both of us. Probably simultaneously in the same thread.


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## writergirlmel (May 16, 2015)

twobytwopets said:


> I think it was both of us. Probably simultaneously in the same thread.


I think you're right. We do that a lot.

In this case, it was probably here or here.


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## twobytwopets (Feb 2, 2014)

You would have to find all our conversations about diet. Honestly I think the first big food/ diet conversation was Mel mentioned the crouching tiger food or flying tiger, OK winged tiger. But I was exhausted when I read it and swore she had tiger meat in the food. I laughed about that for a good half hour. But I mentioned the fact that rabbit meat is one of my preferred protein sources, because we raise them.


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## twobytwopets (Feb 2, 2014)

Found it....http://www.hedgehogcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111809


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

:lol: I'm still amused by that food name. I know it's probably tiger for cat and all, but I can't help linking the name to the food and thinking of calling quails tigers and... :lol: I don't even have the excuse of being exhausted!

And Mel, your comment that you linked to in the second link was what I was thinking of! If you don't mind, I'm going to quote it to add in to the sticky. I started working on editing it earlier, but got a bit sidetracked. I'll keep working on it tonight & tomorrow & see where I get.


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## shinydistraction (Jul 6, 2014)

Just going to jump in and say I went out and got the winged tiger food. Partially because I like the quail and pumpkin combo, but I will admit that the name helped sell me on it 

Anyway, been adding a little bit to Nico's food for a little over a week and she just loves it! This after having tried so many foods to find just one that she likes. Silly hog.


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## writergirlmel (May 16, 2015)

Lilysmommy said:


> And Mel, your comment that you linked to in the second link was what I was thinking of! If you don't mind, I'm going to quote it to add in to the sticky. I started working on editing it earlier, but got a bit sidetracked. I'll keep working on it tonight & tomorrow & see where I get.


I don't mind at all!


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## Lindzorz (Jul 22, 2015)

I'm not sure how familiar this information is to everyone, but do please note that Merrick was recently bought out by Nestle (Purina). I was feeding my dog the Limited Ingredient variety of their foods, but I don't trust that particular brand to keep up with food quality standards, so I've pulled it from her diet. :-/ So disappointing!


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## writergirlmel (May 16, 2015)

Lindzorz said:


> I'm not sure how familiar this information is to everyone, but do please note that Merrick was recently bought out by Nestle (Purina). I was feeding my dog the Limited Ingredient variety of their foods, but I don't trust that particular brand to keep up with food quality standards, so I've pulled it from her diet. :-/ So disappointing!


Even small brands vary in quality. I've seen some "high quality" foods I consider no better or worse than mid-grade box store (i.e. Walmart, Target) foods. And I've seen some offerings from "box store brands" (i.e. the big 3) that are decent, particularly as part of a mix.

My vet (highly recommended by the HWS, very experienced with hedgehogs) actually prefers it when smaller brands are bought out by the "big 3," including Purina, because those manufacturers do more "in house" and often don't change the formula (meaning the same ingredients are used in the same proportions).

I'm not sure I 100% agree since I'm still researching it, but as he explains it, the smaller brands outsource a lot, so it's easier for quality to be less consistent. The Big 3 may have some questionable offerings in their box store lines, but it's likely those are _intentionally_ questionable according to our standards -- meaning they are not intended to contain the highest quality ingredients.

If the formula doesn't change -- and it could change regardless of brand ownership -- the quality won't necessarily slip due to a Big 3 buy-out. It might, but, then again, it may improve due to in-house consistency. Or it might stay the same. Only time will tell. But regardless, it's important for every hedgehog owner to define their own standards beyond the basics and do their own research to evaluate whether or not the brands they're using meet those standards.

Personally, I put more stock in the guaranteed analysis, the ingredients, the manufacturer's safety record _adjusted for production levels_ than I do the name and marketing.


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## twobytwopets (Feb 2, 2014)

Mel, found an interesting read yesterday when I was hunting for the components of a science experiment, er maybe it was hedgehog food it's difficult to tell the difference. It seems obvious but this points the fact of what we don't know very well.

http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-industry-exposed/dog-food-ingredient-proportions/


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## writergirlmel (May 16, 2015)

twobytwopets said:


> Mel, found an interesting read yesterday when I was hunting for the components of a science experiment, er maybe it was hedgehog food it's difficult to tell the difference. It seems obvious but this points the fact of what we don't know very well.
> 
> http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-industry-exposed/dog-food-ingredient-proportions/


That makes a very good point and illustrates a lot of what I was saying.

Because we don't know so much, we can't necessarily assume that a smaller brand is going to slip just because a bigger manufacturer buys it. There are too many variables -- including the reason behind the purchase and the buyer's intent.

Aside from reading the list of ingredients and analysis, we don't know any more about Solid Gold or Natural Balance or any other brand than we know about Purina One unless the company chooses to be transparent. If they don't, all we know is that the list of ingredients in one looks better than another, but in reality, the seemingly quality ingredient could be a low quality version, the proportions of the foods could be deceiving (which is why being savvy to splicing helps), and the company's manufacturing standards can vary greatly.

All we can do is use the information we have to make the best decisions we can and push for more transparency.

By the way, I'm still looking for a chance to exercise my Google-fu on that ingredient you sent me. It's just been crazy around here last night and this morning.


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## Lindzorz (Jul 22, 2015)

I understand your point, but I do not trust Purina as a brand with their ingredients and where they source their ingredients. Many veterinarians sell the Purina foods that are for kidney issues and such things, but if you look at the ingredients on the bag, they are definitely not the best offerings. For these reasons, I do not _personally_ support them as a parent company. I just wanted to put it out there in case others feel the same and did not know that Merrick was purchased by them (it doesn't seem like it was widely publicized).

Example--the NF Kidney Function ingredients:

"Ingredients (Dry)

Whole grain corn, brewers rice, dried egg product, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), sugar, dried whey, sodium caseinate, animal digest, calcium carbonate, vegetable oil, potassium chloride, L-Lysine monohydrochloride, fish oil, salt, potassium citrate, choline chloride, zinc sulfate, ferrous sulfate, Vitamin E supplement, niacin, manganese sulfate, Vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, copper sulfate, riboflavin supplement, Vitamin B-12 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, garlic oil, folic acid, Vitamin D-3 supplement, calcium iodate, biotin, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), sodium selenite. N-4558"
Those are for a specialized blend for an animal that has health issues. I just don't see it.

As for their sourcing:

"Where are your ingredients sourced from? Are they sourced from China?
The vast majority of ingredients used in Purina brand products are sourced from the United States. As with other food companies, we do source a limited amount of ingredients from China. These ingredients, which are primarily essential nutrients, such as taurine and B vitamins, are not commonly available in the USA or other countries in the quantities we need." That was pulled from their website. I do believe they outsource more than they want to admit, but that is pure speculation. They did have a recall in 2013 for Purina One because of salmonella though, which is pretty recent.


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## twobytwopets (Feb 2, 2014)

This is a prime example of one persons standard differing from another's.
Why we can make a suggestion for choices of foods but aren't able to make the decision for them. Ultimately it is up to the individual. 
A food can fit with all the recommended nutritional information, but if it doesn't mesh with your standards it's not the right food for you to use, and there is nothing wrong with that at all. 
This is why all we can do in reality is give you the tools we have available, help a person understand it, and check to see that it fits the nutritional guidelines.


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## MyaPerez1018 (Mar 3, 2015)

I wish all of you guys on here could just come together and make a hedgehog food


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## twobytwopets (Feb 2, 2014)

That would be nice, however, then we would have to take back every nasty thing we've ever said about hedgehog food.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

I actually know someone who is (if I remember correctly) in the process of developing a good hedgehog food.  No idea when it might come out, but don't lose hope yet...

Also I've been slacking due to unexpected circumstances (related to job-finding), but I was planning to mention researching the company behind the food, sourcing, etc. in the Advanced Nutrition Guide, so if anyone has any input on that, please let me know! I'm not going to do a ton of research myself for it, just mention it as a possible thing to look into if someone is concerned about ingredient quality & sourcing. I know it hadn't really occurred to me to pay much attention to the company that produces a food before I saw people debating such in my raw dog food group.


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## WinterGalaxy (Aug 10, 2015)

Eek, I didn't know that Merrick was bought out by Purina. D: Why, world, why?
But, I think I'm still going to feed it in a mix of dog food called Canine Caviar (I forget the flavor). I'm hoping that'll balance out any negatives that this food has, and especially if Purina bought it, then I'm going to have to be extra cautious. I'll do some more research on that, but on the whole, as long as Purina themselves didn't come up with the food, I'm normally fine with it. We feed our dog Zukes treats with no problem, and that brand was bought out by Purina. Fingers crossed everything's going to be ok with this big-brand purchase, it makes me pretty nervous.


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