# Even keel exotic breeder



## kailey lane (Apr 7, 2012)

so im planning on buying a hedgie from a breeder here in MI called even keel exotic and i noticed he is not on the list of breeders.just wondering if anyone has been to this breeder before.From what i can tell he is responsible licensed breeder,and is very informative and seems caring just thought id throw it out there to see if anyone has gone to him before.He may already me a member of this forum,not trying to be rude at all...just would like to hear everyone's experience.


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## LarryT (May 12, 2009)

I don't know them personally, just wanted to say not being on the list means nothing at all.


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## Kalandra (Aug 25, 2008)

Just because you have a USDA license does not mean that you are a quality breeder. It means that you can pass a basic inspection, and are supposedly keeping basic records. It does not mean that you are carefully breeding animals to help better the species.

I've seen him post quite a lot on craigslist over the past, and I believe he frequents the reptile sales. I have no personal experience with him, so will not comment on his care.

He is USDA licensed. His license is a broker license. Per his facebook page he sells a large variety of exotics, which is not surprising since he has a broker license. From what I have seen on his website, and from the number of animals the USDA lists in their inspection reports, I do believe he breeds his hedgehogs in house and brokers many other.

You can review his USDA inspection reports here: http://acissearch.aphis.usda.gov/LPASea ... earch.jspx

Search on Even Keel Exotics.


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## Hillybean (Jun 10, 2010)

I have no personal experience with him, but I have seen his postings on hoobly. I also peek in at his facebook page. I have owned a very wide variety of exotics, and that's why I sometimes check out his fb. I do know all of his feedback on other exotic sites about him has been good..but those have been on bigger animals.

If close set up time to possibly go check him out. You have the right at any point to back out of a sale.


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## Rainy (Jul 27, 2011)

I don't know where you are in Michigan, but I've heard good things about Motor City Hedgehogs in Hartland. I don't know them personally and I've never had one of their babies. But it might be worth a visit if it's close to you and you can evaluate it for yourself. Here is their facebook and website:

http://www.facebook.com/motorcityhedgehogs

http://www.motorcityhedgehogs.com/


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## Hillybean (Jun 10, 2010)

I am waiting list for Motorcity..she had 25 other people on the list when I contacted her. I was wanting a certain marked pinto though, so if your not picky then maybe you can get one sooner.

She seems nice, but this is my first time working with them..so can't say much. For me it's a drive..


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## kailey lane (Apr 7, 2012)

Yeah im aware anyone can have a USDA license,i know it doesn't mean much ,just though id bring it up thoand im going today to check everything out,i will walk away if it is not right in anyway,but from what iv heard people are happy with his animals.the baby im getting was born at his location and is 7 weeks old.i ask him about heating and diet,he seems to be doing right by the hedgies so ill go check it out and this place is much closer than motorcity,and i am looking for a cinnacot so im being kinda picky lol.ill let you guys know how it goes


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## MomLady (Aug 14, 2010)

Another option for people in Michigan is Millermeade Farms in Ohio. Gail has gorgeous hedgies. It's a long ride but well worth it! She has lots of info on her website.

My Nara came from there. 

The website is http://www.critterconnection.cc/availablehh.php

Gail usually gets back to you within a few days too.

ML


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## kailey lane (Apr 7, 2012)

OK so we went and we brought the gurl home.i dont know if id go back simply for the fact that the small room all(or some) of the animals were in had a very strong ammonia smell,i was really really trying to breath and not get sick,which is not ok but.......other than that all the pets had what looked to be clean bedding,although it was pine shavings for the hedgie.I was a bit uncomfortable about the 5-6 large bunnys all in the same cage on the floor...a small cage non the less.He did say he had a show he was going to so maybe he had them packed up.Honestly i wanted to get her out of there and go home were she could breath i felt bad for her.im not trying to me mean,the animals did look healthy and had nice cages ,but the smell and bunnies and the fact that he feeds spikes delight(eek!) kinda made me think im not going back there.so i have her home,shes healthy we went to the vet on the way home as i planned on the ride home,thankfully the vet could get us in right away and had a wellness check up and she is doing great the doc said thankfully.she is eating and drinking within 10 minutes of being her new cage,she is hungry! and about the smell,who knows maybe he was having an off day with the cleaning idk or it always smell like that.Thanks for the input guys and hopefully this post can help someone in the future


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## kailey lane (Apr 7, 2012)

also i named her Prinkles its from a show called the office if anyone saw that episode lol


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## Hillybean (Jun 10, 2010)

Several breeders feed spikes delight and use pine bedding. Including Gail Dick in Ohio...

Glad you got one, the smell issue is not cool though. The rabbits could have been a big issue with that.

Keep us all posted on her and I would schedule a wellness visit with your vet for her. Get her checked out soon.


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## Guest (Apr 14, 2012)

rabbits who havnt been spayed/nuetered have a very strong smell which might have contributed to it. Pine shavings arnt a bad choice always unless you have a boy then you have to watch for infections in their penile sheath. 
glad your little girls okay. cant wait for pictures


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## kailey lane (Apr 7, 2012)

oh ok well i had posted before about that food and was told its not very good,but i guess i see it as the same way dog breeders feed iams and pedigree....not the best quality but for that number of animals its the best way to go im sure.and as for pine i thought it was no good? i was told on my rat forum and several other places pine is very bad for small animals but if you say other wise then everything was fine.and i have never had bunnys so i didnt know that could make that smell,that could explain it so i retract what i said.other than the smell everything was pretty goodhe also does trades so he could have just got those rabbits.any way iv been waiting along planned few months and shes here and beautiful!!!! heres a pic of prinkles,she did not want to get out of her buffet i gave her a few pieces,not to much,dont want her to have a upset tummy.btw if your wondering,yes thats cardboard lining my cage,my coroplast was ordered and will be done Sundayheres my baby


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## Guest (Apr 14, 2012)

aspen is a better option in bedding and fleece is better then bedding but pine is okay in some animals it can cause irritation to the respritory system. 
most people dont know that rabbits have a pretty strong smell. i use to work in a pet store and volunteer at the humane society so Ive had experience with some stinky rabbits


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## Kalandra (Aug 25, 2008)

Personally, I don't advocate using any wood bedding with any small pet. We have seen plenty of hedgehogs posts on here where wood slivers have gotten lodged in sensitive areas. There has been a number who have lost their eyes from burrowing in the bedding. And wood getting lodged in penal sheaths (not a problem for this hedgehog, but it is a problem). I even know of one that had gotten splinters stuck in its face from burrowing.

I'd much prefer to see someone using a different substrate than wood shavings. Carefresh ultra white is often recommended due to its color, so that you can see green stool and blood urine easier. However, light colored liners are still the best for the health of the hedgehog.

Kailey, thank you for the update I had read stories about him. Most of those were in relation to how he keeps his sugar gliders, but all are of similar concerns as you have posted. I also have read his USDA reports. The one in 2010 was horrendous, but most have been fairly minor since. However, his last report on 1/12/12 was a sanitation issue.


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## kailey lane (Apr 7, 2012)

Kalandra-i had the same thought when i picked her up,she was burrowing in the pine and was getting hard peices in her face and eyes, i was thinking wow how could that be comfortable?.

i never use wood shavingsshe is now in fresh news soft recyled news paper bedding and will be getting fleece in the next few weeks.As for his report i wish i could have gotten his report to load on my computer......i tryed to view it several times before i went but the site would not work,wish i would have known darnit!! 

oh well, im glad i got her.shes healthy and very loved....so much so that my bf set up a web cam and im able to sit here at my friends house and watch her drink and sleep while im 20 miles from home


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## motorcityhedgehogs (Nov 30, 2011)

I do not like to say bad stuff about other breeders (although Even Keel is mostly a broker) BUT in my opinion this guy is one of the worst out there. I have had 3 people come to me since Christmas that have had their hedgies die within a few days of bringing them home. He wouldn't do anything at all for them! Besides these I have heard sooo many horror stories about him, unsanitary conditions, not real knowledgable, does not care what happens when the animal leaves his property. It's very sad. Just as others have said, just because you are USDA doesn't mean you are a good breeder. I could go on and on about this guy, but I do have things to do..........
Kailey, I hope all goes well with your new addition! 
Rainy, thank you for the compliments!


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## Wiccy (Apr 14, 2012)

I went to Janda Exotics. I got a really good first impression of her. The hedgies were happy and social and looked healthy. She raised them in home and kept them separated from her other exotics. At the moment, I'm using pine shavings because that is what she used for the baby. I just picked him up today and I wanted to make sure I made as little changes as possible while he is adjusting. When I go to the vet on Tuesday for his wellness check, I'm going to look into something else like the news paper.


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## kailey lane (Apr 7, 2012)

motorcity hedgies-thank you for the info,im so horridied that that happend,im now scared after reading what you said i hope shell be ok.;( oh wow im kinda freaked out honestly......really scared i will never forgive myself if she dies the vet said she looks good but im still really scared now.

what are signs to look for? shes eating ,drinking and alert....she very easy to handle and not very shy,i hope thats not a bad sign.


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## motorcityhedgehogs (Nov 30, 2011)

That's great that you've had her into the vet. That's a good start! That is not a bad thing that she is friendly  
Signs to look for: Eating/drinking/pooing (should be solid-not runny, mucus like, bright green) gaining weight, if she seems real small add a little bit of Royal Canin baby cat to her diet. 
Sorry, my intentions were definately not to scare you! I just want people to be aware


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## kailey lane (Apr 7, 2012)

oh ok well she is eating,drinking and her poo is firm and brown so i guess thats good! she does sleep alot but considering they are nocturnal im sure i wouldnt see her awake much since im asleep lol.and dont worry im calmed down now and im glad you told me lol just new mommy freak out there for a moment,i feel aasured that the vet said she looks great! so ill keep an eye on her thank you.i will be going to you next time and i now regret i even took the shorter drive to him,the longer drive would have been well worth it.thanks again!!!


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## Kat Martin (May 9, 2012)

This guy's hedgehogs are extremely bad. I would not support him at all. I've seen multiple reports of hedgehogs coming from him (at least a dozen in the last six months) that are taken too early from momma and dying, are dirty, et cetera.

I've even tried to confront him and ask him if he knew about the conditions of his animals and all I was given was a Block on the internet and harassing phone calls saying I had no right to be concerned about his practices or the condition of his animals.

:roll:


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## kailey lane (Apr 7, 2012)

it is so sad, he is now doing hay rides?!?! and if you buy an animal you get a free hayride for your family.....this just does not seem right to me,sounds more like a road side attraction than a breeder.https://www.facebook.com/evenkeelpumpkins


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## raerysdyk (Oct 21, 2011)

I got Brillo from Even Keel. Luckily, I had researched hedgies quite a bit before getting Brillo...because Zach was not the most helpful. Initially he was very easy to get ahold of and ask questions- he seemed very eager to help and pleasant. When I met with him to pick out a little one, I was a little perturbed by the smell of ammonia (there weren't bunnies, but there were plenting of ground squirrels and sugar gliders). Again, I was lucky I had done my research, as a couple of the babies looked WAY too small to be away from mum, and a couple had what appeared to be staph on their snouts.  He assured us they were being treated, though.

After we brought Brillo home, Zach dropped off the face of the planet. Within a day of bringing Brillo home, he developed a URI. According to the vet, it had been developing and the move lowered Brillo's immune system just enough for it to become infectious. I tried several times to contact Zach about the possibility of other babies being infected (I didn't want compensation...I just wanted to make sure the other babies were okay.) I heard nothing. I e-mailed him, and I heard nothing. 

Unless you are prepared for issues (without the breeders help) I would steer clear.


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## kailey lane (Apr 7, 2012)

Thought id post a link to the petition that has been started. http://www.change.org/petitions/even-keel-exotics-discontinue-poor-animal-sales-and-practices#share


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## GoodandPlenty (Feb 4, 2012)

kailey lane - Thanks for the above link. I didn't know that USDA has public records of USDA inspected breeders either.
( http://acissearch.aphis.usda.gov/LPASea ... earch.jspx )

I did a search for my breeder. She came up okay, I reckon. No violations on any of her inspections after the first two, and those were a single, minor administrative technicality that was cited two times. I wish I'd known about this when I was looking for Sophie. It certainly doesn't get much PR.

However, I am very disappointed that there was almost zero information in her inspection reports. The use of the word 'report' is vastly overstating. Mostly useless frankly. The USDA is setting a very low bar in making inspection reports useful. Perhaps bad breeders stand out as bad in these reports.? Sadly, it is my understanding that my breeder is a very good one - and there is nothing in their 'reports' to suggest anything more than absolute minimum compliance. It seems a disservice to good breeders and consumers looking for good breeders.

I'll say it again. I don't know how the average person stands a chance of finding a good breeder without a lot of luck.


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## MLHollywood (Apr 22, 2012)

GoodandPlenty said:


> kailey lane - Thanks for the above link. I didn't know that USDA has public records of USDA inspected breeders either.
> ( http://acissearch.aphis.usda.gov/LPASea ... earch.jspx )
> 
> I did a search for my breeder. She came up okay, I reckon. No violations on any of her inspections after the first two, and those were a single, minor administrative technicality that was cited two times. I wish I'd known about this when I was looking for Sophie. It certainly doesn't get much PR.
> ...


I agree. My breeder was only cited for not being there to let the inspector in! Otherwise, she's had no violations.

Generally, when we get any animal, we always visit the breeder ourselves to see how things are run. Especially with dogs we've found people saying how they're reputable breeder but won't let you visit or when you do you find terrible conditions for the puppies. We also always try to ask for medical history and pedigrees, and if they don't/won't give you those things that should be a red flag. I've found that those two things alone weed out most bad breeders, and good breeders usually want to show that they're trying to breed out negative traits.

That's just my experience as a consumer of course!


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## kailey lane (Apr 7, 2012)

There is some talk of trying to get him inspected and or someone going in and looking at his facility and recording what they see(not sure if that would work).im hoping this goes somewhere,already 50 signature in about 2 days...this guy is up to no good.the incident reports make my stomach turn.im going to keep sharing the petition.someone has to get to the bottom of this whole mess,and i wont forget what i saw......i dont let this die down now that iv seen what care he giving his animals and reading other statments from past buyers the place has always smelled bad and been in bad conditions.

the sugar glider forum had a huge thread arguing with him about his care after someone bought from him and they were in bad shape.check this thread out,they call him out on alot of stuff and then he just vanished http://www.sugarglider.com/glidergossip/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=31018&SearchTerms=keel


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## MLHollywood (Apr 22, 2012)

This might be a little extreme, but what about the humane society? If you have reason to believe animals are being kept on poor conditions, can you call them up? Or is that what you're collecting signatures for?


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## kailey lane (Apr 7, 2012)

MLhollywood- This is not my petition,i happened to find it on Facebook and im not sure what the plan is,it would be great to bring to the human society though! ill contact the woman that made the petition and talk with her.iv seen human society on tv(animal cops) take exotics from people but im not sure if they do in this state.I should call and ask.great idea!

It seems like he is doing just enough so he doesn't get his license taken away.The bare minimum is not good enough.


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## kailey lane (Apr 7, 2012)

oh and some of the videos he has of his animals on youtube and pretty gross,looking at the surroundings and cages it look really bad in some videos.i dont know anything about ground squirrels but wow thats alot of them in one cage.http://www.youtube.com/user/tetratec150


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## MLHollywood (Apr 22, 2012)

Well, inspections are only done so often, and if babies are being taken away too early or there's a large number of animals in one cage, the humane society might be able to make a case for cruelty. I know that they have been known to shut down puppy mills that were USDA approved. The standards are on this page: http://www.aphis.usda.gov/animal_welfare/awr.shtml

Of course, if he isn't breaking the law, there's not a lot that CAN be done. If you make an animal cruelty complaint, however, they are required by law to investigate.

I also imagine they KNOW when the USDA inspector is coming. There's a difference between that and someone just showing up because of a complaint. What bothers me more than anything is the babies being taken away too early. I feel like that qualifies as "neglect" in some way or another.

EDIT: That link kind of sucked. It's difficult to sift through the actual requirements. This site provides a few things worthy of mention: http://network.bestfriends.org/9045/news.aspx


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## dt1of 8 (Jul 22, 2013)

This breeder lost his usda license in april due to mistreatment of his animals. It is very true.


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## darkwingdc (Mar 11, 2013)

I got my Helga from him On March 8 2013 and I picked her up from his house. His barn he had his animals in was not bad at all. He was VERY helpful and everything looked clean.


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