# Mourning Patterns



## Fignoots (Jul 23, 2014)

Hey there,

I'm assuming they ought to have some form of mourning, but I'm curious: How would you tell it? Being honest, I don't like them much at all, but my fiance lives with me and she moved in with them. She's got two now -- she had three, and that's why I'm here.

Recently (just a hair over three weeks past) we moved from the Portland, from a small duplex where there wasn't much grass or outdoor area to a new place where there's an abundance of the stuff -- we actually have a backyard, which I quite fancy. Anyhow, she thought it'd be fun to introduce them to the 'great outback' as she calls it, after having me check over the fencing so they couldn't run out. I was flat out exhausted when she brought them out after work (different days), so I wasn't really paying much heed to them. As it turns out, the woods about thirty meters back from the fence are loaded with all kinds of wildlife, foremost the foxes - they're quick and quiet as I've ever seen. I'll spare you the unkind bits, but it wasn't pretty. I called a bloke from down the road, his kid's a veterinary student, since the nearest actual veterinarian hospital is near a hundred kilometers away. At the time, I guess that's the best we could do. We brought the other two inside, trying as it was since they were absolutely spitting. The third was in pain, so after bringing my fiance away, we put it down in the most humane way we could think of. 

I'm sorry if that seems a little brusque to you all. I was a boy in Redmond (the 'actual outback'), and that's just how it goes there.

Anyhow, that's not why I'm here. Last night and the night before it the other two of them were making the worst of noises. Extremely loud, like they were being prodded, only nothing seemed to be bothering them. They used to all stay in one big cage (and I know some of you are probably going to be upset about that, but they never got into scrapping with each other so), and now the other two seem to be taking turns burrowing where the third used to sleep, and tearing its sock (in which they apparently sleep?) to bits, and just going completely off their rockers about it. If she picks them up, they hush up, but as soon as they're down they start with the rowing again. I've since put them in my 'recording room' since it totally deadens the sound, and for the first time in a few days my fiance hasn't gone to sleep red-eyed (she spends quite a lot of time with the other two, not to worry, but she's not sleeping with them).

Is this normal behaviour, and if so, is there any way to help it pass? She's telling me they haven't been eating like regular, and I've picked up a pack of syringes so she can feed them via tube. I was chatting with the veterinary student, and he said he would get us in with the veterinarian late tomorrow, otherwise the wait is much more. This time of year, they're packed full I guess.

Anyway, if you can help, great. If not, we'll figure something out.


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## DesireeM81 (Jun 14, 2014)

I have no experience with bonded hedgehogs. I do have a couple of questions though. I am assuming the hedgehogs were all females? Were they related? Sisters, mother/daughter?

I know someone on here has a sick hedgehog and had to split her from her sister and they weren't doing so well. 

Sorry I am of no help but maybe someone will see your post who has experience. 

I know you don't care for the animals but you getting on here and posting, even if it is just for your fiance says a lot to me.


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## Fignoots (Jul 23, 2014)

I've asked; The one that was mauled was a male, and one of the still living is male as well. I should clarify, though, that their cage had dividers in it, made of old pantry shelving with an inch gap in between. They could see, smell, and I suppose touch each other if they were really stretching, but otherwise only came into contact with one another when the barrier was lifted and my fiance was watching. She says they got along fine, though, and shared toys and occasionally bedding.

I've visited the veterinarian, and he was as helpful as I expected. I've got a pack of the right sort of syringes, I guess we'll be trying to feed them with those later. I checked the thermostat in the recording room, and it's set to about 23 degrees which is normal for them, and have changed their bedding and the like. The wheels appear clean, so I'm assuming they haven't used them either. 

They don't seem to respond to anyone any more, either, as they used to move around quite a lot when held. Exploring, I think? They sit still now, no noises of any kind, nor any defensive posturing. I'm beginning to wonder if they've gone into depression and 'given up' so to speak.

On an unrelated note, that fox appears to have dug up the third one and ran off with the carcass. I guess that's nature?

Edit:

Their food bowls and water appear to have been touched, but only a small amount.


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## DesireeM81 (Jun 14, 2014)

Syringe feeding is a good start. 

Instead of depression, they may be traumatized. Just a thought. 

If they are eating and drinking, even a little, it's a good sign. Syringe feeding can help their appetite return.


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## josh (Jul 23, 2014)

Hope you can get her back to full health. I agree that eating and drinking is a good sign. Just be patient and don't lose hope!


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## Fignoots (Jul 23, 2014)

Sorry to those hopeful for their recovery. Came home to some awful noises coming from the recording room - thankfully the missus wasn't home yet - and walked in on one of the hedgehogs violently disemboweling itself in a pool of blood and other bits. Still haven't figured why it was doing that, as it doesn't seem like a terribly smart thing to do. After putting it down and burying what was left of that one, I came back inside and checked on the other one, but she had appeared to have passed sometime in her sleep as she was stone cold.

What would cause a hedgehog to rip itself up like that? My fiance was always extremely vigilant for fleas, mites, or other pests, so I very much doubt it was any of those. Its wheel was covered in fecal matter and dark viscous blood, preceding a trail of more blood where it appears to have dragged itself around. I can't say I'll miss them, but that still seems a poor way to go.


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## sandeyes13 (Apr 15, 2014)

I know its morbid, but considering the mystery of all this, its a shame that you buried them- if you would have saved the bodies for the vet, you could have had a necropsy done to see just what was going on internally.

I almost wonder if they weren't in physical pain those few days after taking them outside- it could explain why they were so loud, and why they were tearing things up. Could they have eaten anything that caused internal damage? Could they have gotten into anything that could have harmed them or irritated their skin? I know some external parasites can cause self mutilation in dogs (excessive paw chewing, fur tearing, etc.).

Looking through the internet, I can see that self-mutilation in hedgehogs seems to be disturbingly more common than I realized, and it mostly seems to come about from either bodily irritation, or stress.
http://www.hedgehogcentral.com/forums/11-health/9705-self-mutilation.html
http://www.hedgehogworld.com/showthread.php?3577-Self-Harming-Hedgehog!!!

An abstract from a case study noting a hedgehog with spinal/nerve damage who self mutilated its feet: http://europepmc.org/abstract/med/16931383

So perhaps if it wasn't an external irritant, the stress was enough to set off the one little guy to harm himself. The other one, who simply passed in its sleep though, makes me wonder if they didn't get into something that made them sick, or caused some sort of internal damage (like an obstruction, twisted gut, etc.), or even suffer from some sort of stress induced episode?


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