# Bonding Troubles?



## Fey (Oct 2, 2014)

So I got a new hedgie, Lulu who... at first was a total sweetie and now she's just a complete and total brat. She's about 3 - 4 months (haven't seen too many new quills come in yet though she shed a bunch within the first two months I had her) 


Lulu clicks, hisses, growls, pops and balls extremely tight, and not to mention is a biter. I was letting her explore on me since sometimes she can be SUPER sweet and in an exploring mood, and she bit me right on my lovehandle (ow LOL) through the clothing. Bit me so hard I bled and bruised actually... so I decided to look up fleece training and now keep her out of contact with my skin, and she was doing extremely well not even biting at all, but today again she bit about twice once of the palm of my hand and another on my wrist. I make sure to completely wash my hands with unscented soap and usually do my best to not disturb her or put her away if she does bite. 

I found the best way... to sort of bond with her is to put her in a lil bonding bag or fleece and leave her be next to me or on my lap. Is this sufficient enough bonding besides obviously treat time, and letting her run around in her hedgie run? I usually watch a movie with her, or will sit on the computer I wake her up later on the evening (about 9 PM or 10 PM or later.) If I move even a little tiny bit when she's in the bag she will hiss click pop and ball. 


I also have to wash her feet no joke every day or at least every other day because she's a wheel fanatic ... unlike Bonnie LOL who is kind of a lazy hog and just enjoys her dig box.

I never had this problem with my other lil hedgehog bonnie... (Bonnie had a bit of a biting problem but has since then grown out of it)


----------



## SirQuilliam907 (Jan 12, 2015)

Quilliam is 9 months and he is exactly like this with me also. He has recently gotten to be more and more of an "explorer" hedgie. You'll see with time that their personalities will show more and more and change too. They are smart little buggers!


----------



## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

I think I would schedule a vet visit to have her checked out, just to rule out any health issues that may have caused the behavior change. Major behavior changes are usually something to pay attention to.

If the vet can't find anything and you're certain nothing in the environment is bothering her (new smells, new animals/people, no electronic rodent deterrents, etc.), then it's possible that her personality changed due to quilling. It doesn't happen often, but sometimes it does.

What you're doing for bonding is just fine and totally counts. Much of my bonding time with Lily consisted of bundling her up in a fleece blanket & just having her hang out and sleep on my lap while I did other things.  For the biting, just keep trying to avoid her mouth and do the fleece training thing. If you can, try to pay close attention to her behavior right before biting, and the time of biting (as far as how long she's been out & what time of day/night, etc.) and see if you notice a pattern of any kind. Write down the details if you have to, each time it happens. Look at her face, if she gets huffier or antsier, etc. Sometimes there's a reason for the biting & it just takes a bit of detective work to figure it out. Sometimes you can't figure it out and the best you can do is try and prevent it from happening. Hopefully fleece training will help.

Hang in there! It can be challenging to have a hedgehog like this, but hopefully once you can work out what works for you guys, you'll be able to find a routine that works for both of you and limits how bloody you get!


----------



## Fey (Oct 2, 2014)

Thank you all so much for your help everyone, I've taken the advice I've read on here and.... I think she's actually gotten a lot worse. She had progressed SOO well... and within this week has bitten me three times already. (I must say I haven't taken her to the vet yet, if it persists then I will definitely be taking her in soon, I've been waiting to see if perhaps its just a bonding issue) I also.. LOL was mistaken this is actually the SECOND month I've had her e__e; I thought I gotten her WAY sooner then I did, but in all honesty have only had her for TWO months. fsflajlfdsj anyways...


I had changed up her cage quite a bit, I have her in a critter nation cage and before she was able to get under the fleece liner and would scratch and bite at the pan, but I fixed it to where she can't dig under it and I think its just... pissed her off more :'( she's being awful legit just awful .___. I'm at my wits ends. I thought bribing her with treats, playing with her at different times would change it... I'm just not sure what I'm doing wrong?

When she is awake and running, she'll puff up a lil bit, but not a lot, I'll open the cage and set my hands out for her to walk on if she so chooses. Often times she will come up onto my hand and want to explore!! I had been doing this for a week in the morning, and one day out of the blue she bit me... I guess maybe she didn't want to be held...? and my instinct reaction was to pull back (she bit me where you would put a ring on your finger, and slipped off my hand and fell onto the floor, no injuries, I was sitting on the floor when she dropped u_u) Since then, I've gone back to only handling her with the fleece, whether it be to grab her out of the cage, hold her, anything, I tried to keep skin contact to a minimum because I don't trust her. 

Today, I picked her up after she had been out with me for a few hours (she was chilling on a blanket not ON me, but near me, right next to me) and was about to fall off the couch so I picked her up and she was a bit squirmy, anxious to get out of my hand, but relaxed and was exploring then bit hard again on the meat of my finger (once more where a ring would go, but obviously palm side up) and started yanking on it. I had to let her do her thing, because there was no way I was getting her off, and once she was done I grabbed a fleece next to me and put it under my hand and held her that way. Still huffy, still puffy, and in general just does not want me to touch her.... 

It's been a little bit since my original post, I just want to make sure... I'm still doing everything okay so far :'( I did miss a few bonding days, but for the most part I keep her and Bonnie (my other hog) out an hour or more... Is that TOO much time for me to keep them out? I mean I usually let them sleep and then later on in the evening 8 PM go to the kitchen to let them run around and give them their mealworm treats. 

I've tried to associate these little red tongs as the "treat and food" tongs so they would stop biting me. For Bonnie it has worked EXCELLENT, Lulu (the biter) also loves it, but honestly I'm just convinced this little thing will bite about anyone or anything :/ 

Sorry for the long winded post again, I'm just... I'm really upset with this and I just wonder if maybe she shouldn't be a single hedgehog... the only pet someone has? Am I overthinking it too much unu?


----------



## CashmereSkeleton (Nov 28, 2014)

You say you were taking her out every morning... Hedgehogs should be asleep during the day. Maybe she keeps biting you because she is tired and not getting enough sleep. Even if you have her out during the day and you think she's sleeping, it's not the same as being left alone, undisturbed in a nice warm cage. If you are taking her out during the day, try to leave her alone and only take her out at night. I always take erin out just before her lamp is about to go off and it becomes night-time. She's still sleepy but I'm not disturbing her rest too much as she would be waking up soon anyway.


----------



## Fey (Oct 2, 2014)

CashmereSkeleton said:


> You say you were taking her out every morning... Hedgehogs should be asleep during the day. Maybe she keeps biting you because she is tired and not getting enough sleep. Even if you have her out during the day and you think she's sleeping, it's not the same as being left alone, undisturbed in a nice warm cage. If you are taking her out during the day, try to leave her alone and only take her out at night. I always take erin out just before her lamp is about to go off and it becomes night-time. She's still sleepy but I'm not disturbing her rest too much as she would be waking up soon anyway.


I should clarify by morning I mean.. 4:00 AM when she is awake and is running around. I get up really early because I have to be at work by 6 AM 

I don't have a timer on my lamps, but the time they DO actually get up themselves it seems is really late late at night about 12 PM. Would it be better if I actually did have lamps on them that were timed so they know when to anticipate me coming?

I also did just set up a vet appointment, as she bit me again about 5 times.... once on my arm, and the other four times on my fingers/hands. Maybe I'm handling her too much? She seems to not like to be held, but loves to explore... would it benefit me more to have a large playpen for her to run around and explore and that would be our bonding time when she is awake?


----------



## Fey (Oct 2, 2014)

Alrightt, so here is an update I DID take Lulu to the vet and she is all good! Everything is right with her but she is still a lil bit... well eue grumpy.


I had an idea though!! I'm going to use food (mainly mealworms and other lil treats) to try and tame her down. First I'm going to give her a mealworm and pet her quills, I'm going to do this everyday until I can finally pet her without her puffing up and relaxing her quills. I want her to associate the pets with food and happiness. After that it will be handling her WITHOUT fleece between me and her. I will probably start with 1 minute at a time. I will hold her for one minute then set her down and offer her a treat the next day add another minute. I want to keep doing this till about 20 minutes then after that it will be five minute increments. 

Right now I have a zero biting incident for about a week!! I'm hoping that this will help out a lot with her since she does seem to be pretty food oriented!


----------



## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

Sounds like a good plan!  Just make sure you remember to use something besides your fingers to offer the mealworms so she doesn't try biting your fingers due to the food association. Plastic tweezers, chopsticks, a plastic spoon, etc. work well. Good luck!


----------



## Fey (Oct 2, 2014)

Alright... so I just wanted to say that I've tried the food association and.. its been a almost a month since I've posted this and its ....SORTA working? She just doesn't like to be touched, I've accepted this... I've also accepted that I may never be able to hold this hedgehog.

She doesn't want to be held, she wants to explore, the bonding we do now is when I do not touch her without a fleece (she balls up instantly u.u clicking hissing, the sorts) and I have a fairly large almost playpen for me and her to be in, or for me to watch her run around. I take her out almost every night and sometimes let her play with the other hedgie (always supervised of course) With lulu.. I do not think she'll ever be like Bonnie. She's really...... just a grump and that's her and I've learned that if I just keep my hands away from her, and my skin she seems to be okay. She will sleep in a bonding bag (granted if I move it she gets pissy LOL) and the ONLY time she will let me hold her in my hand is when its bath time and I "come to the rescue" LOL. poor thing hates baths :'(


----------

