# Is My Hedgie Overweight



## hemigirl (Jul 15, 2013)

Ok so this could fall under Health or Diet and Nutrition so I decided to put it here. Out of lack of not really knowing which to put it under. No I do not have a scale I need to get one which I plan on doing as soon as I have the extra cash. I know a lot of people have had hedgies for a million years. I'm worried that sonic may be overweight. I figure you may be able to tell by looking at his picture when he is balled up. 
He runs on his wheel nightly (still amazes me how much they just go). Some nights he runs more then others. I am feeding him Ultra Performatrin Grain-free formula. This is what they were feeding at the petstore and said that the breeder said it was ok. I was going through the food list didn't see it there. Deboned turkey is the first on the list but then I got thinking that maybe the protein and fat is to high. He doesn't have a problem unballing or any other issues. Should I change his food? I usually free hand feed him but my hand equals up to about 2 tablespoons, he doesn't eat all his food in a night so I'm not usually adding more unless it looks to be on the low side. All depends how active he gets. He will run on his wheel and then stop, eat, start running, repeat. LOL


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## Sonics1AndOnlyGirl (May 25, 2013)

Can he roll into a complete ball? When you look at him from above does his sides hang out a bit? The fat and protein is a bit high. I'd switch to a lower fat food. You should still free feed him so he still eats the same amount.


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## zamxonk (Mar 6, 2013)

I'm not an expert, so definitely wait until someone with more experience drops by and give their input, but he does look a bit chubby to me. It's great that he's really active! From what I've seen on the forums (and I have spent a LOT of time reading posts here), people generally get their hedgies in shape by transitioning to a lower fat food and encouraging exercise if necessary.

The food you're feeding, if you calculate the percentage of fat on a dry matter basis, is 20% fat - fine for hedgies that have trouble keeping weight on, but it doesn't sound like your guy has that problem. Generally 15% is the maximum fat content you'd want, lower usually is better. If you get a lower fat food or two and gradually introduce them to his current kibble, that could be enough to slim him down a little bit.


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## hemigirl (Jul 15, 2013)

Since we have gotten him and he has been comfortable with us that is as far as I've gotten him or seen him ball up. When he is laying down on his stomach his butt hangs out some that is about it. Hubby says he has rolled in a complete ball on him though....never me HAHAHA. Never seen his sides hanging out. As soon as I can I will slowly switch his food. I heard you shouldn't switch all at once cause they may not like it? What is the highest protein I should aim for? I know fat is 15%. Then it would be finding the best food to get him. I just wanna make sure that everything is right and there is none that can actually hurt him. So advice on best food brand would be awesome too...if it helps I'm in Canada and I know that sometimes we have different stuff then the US.


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## Sonics1AndOnlyGirl (May 25, 2013)

You wanna do a gradual food switch to avoid stomach upset. Some hedgies though have other ideas. I had to do a complete food switch with Sonic. As soon as he tasted cat food he never touched hedgehog food again. Between 30-35% protein is what you want.


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## hemigirl (Jul 15, 2013)

That is good to know thank you Sonic's1andonlygirl. My sonic has never had hedgie food. One pet store tried selling me it and I read somewhere once that some hedgie food isn't good for them so I said no way no how.


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## Sonics1AndOnlyGirl (May 25, 2013)

Mine came from a pet store so that's what he was feed at first. Hedgehog food is very bad. It's got no meat what so ever and some actually have raisins and seeds in them which aren't good for hedgies.


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## hemigirl (Jul 15, 2013)

zamxonk thank you for the information. I've tried to encourage more exercise ontop of his wheel running. Usually every day he is out in the hall having playing time with his tube only toy he likes for at least an hour. Sometimes I worry that is to much but he gets real angry when I say play time is over. But other then that I cannot convince him to run on his wheel unless the lights are out the tv is off and he thinks no one is around him. I think he is wheel shy.


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## hemigirl (Jul 15, 2013)

Sonics1AndOnlyGirl said:


> Mine came from a pet store so that's what he was feed at first. Hedgehog food is very bad. It's got no meat what so ever and some actually have raisins and seeds in them which aren't good for hedgies.


I'm happy I said no about it then. When I am out and about tomorrow I will go check out the food store and take pics of the different foods. Maybe someone can also advise me on the best ones. I just wanna make sure I make the right choices as I want my sonic to stick around as long as possible and I may be a slightly over paranoid mommy. LOL


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## Annie&Tibbers (Apr 16, 2013)

See if your pet store lets you return partial opened bags -- sometimes hedgehogs get really picky about what food they will or won't eat.

If you're transitioning anyway, it's a pretty good idea to have a mix of foods covering at least two brands, so that if one of them has a recall, you still have something to feed him!

Sounds pretty normal about the wheeling-in-the-dark. Playtime totally counts as exercise if he's running around exploring, tubing, or whatever else. Never give up potential hedgehog-snuggle time!


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## hemigirl (Jul 15, 2013)

Annie&Tibbers said:


> See if your pet store lets you return partial opened bags -- sometimes hedgehogs get really picky about what food they will or won't eat.
> 
> If you're transitioning anyway, it's a pretty good idea to have a mix of foods covering at least two brands, so that if one of them has a recall, you still have something to feed him!
> 
> Sounds pretty normal about the wheeling-in-the-dark. Playtime totally counts as exercise if he's running around exploring, tubing, or whatever else. Never give up potential hedgehog-snuggle time!


Thank you, along with his playtime we do have our nightly snuggles. He will usually wrap himself up in my shirt if I don't have our blanket on my lap and dig until he is comfortable. Plus we do snuggles throughout the day. He is not so fond of young and the restless...might be a boy thing LOL

When I go for his new food I'm going to try and stick with something that has turkey as the meat cause he obviously is a turkey boy.  Guess one step at a time. Before I buy anything I will post to double check. When I got him All I knew was he had to have a high protein diet and of course I didn't think his food he was being fed was an issue. Thankfully I noticed the food list board etc.


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## Sonics1AndOnlyGirl (May 25, 2013)

Well I see the brand your using is dog food. I've only used cat food so here's a couple of those that would work.

Blue Buffalo weight control http://www.petsmart.com/product/ind...=Health+Consideration&f=PAD/psNotAvailInUS/No
Wellness healthy weight http://www.petsmart.com/product/ind...=Health+Consideration&f=PAD/psNotAvailInUS/No

Wellness is a good brand but for some hedgies it can be too rich and case loose poop.


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## abbys (Oct 13, 2012)

He's certainly...fluffy. 

Just remember that any food change will need to be done slowly, so it may take a few weeks to see weight loss results.

My vet recommended slowly mixing in a reduced calorie food, like for elderly or indoor cats, until it's about 1/4 - 1/3 of his total food.

It sounds like he's still fairly active, so that could mean it's the current food that's fattening him up. After he slims down you may want to consider a mix of 2 different foods with an overall lower fat content so he doesn't plump up again.


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## Annie&Tibbers (Apr 16, 2013)

Canadian tip: Use PetSmart while trialing foods, then by from a local little store after you've settled on a mix.

I like buying & supporting local, but I didn't want to waste a lot of money while compromising with my small friend about healthy food that he wouldn't totally ignore. My local store doesn't do try & return; if yours does, awesome. But if not, megachain PetSmart does.


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## hemigirl (Jul 15, 2013)

Sonics1AndOnlyGirl said:


> Well I see the brand your using is dog food. I've only used cat food so here's a couple of those that would work.
> 
> Blue Buffalo weight control http://www.petsmart.com/product/ind...=Health+Consideration&f=PAD/psNotAvailInUS/No
> Wellness healthy weight http://www.petsmart.com/product/ind...=Health+Consideration&f=PAD/psNotAvailInUS/No
> ...


Thank you again. No worries my food I have is actually cat food not dog food.


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## hemigirl (Jul 15, 2013)

abbys said:


> He's certainly...fluffy.
> 
> Just remember that any food change will need to be done slowly, so it may take a few weeks to see weight loss results.
> 
> ...


When you mixed in a reduced calorie food once it was the 1/4-1/3 of his food did u just keep mixing in his regular stuff he eats? Right now I think I will work on getting the lower fat contant no more then 15% and lower protein no more 30-35%.

In all of this I should have mentioned I rarely give him treats. He does not like melworms, he isn't big on much. He likes strawberries. My guy is a fussy eater. I guess if we blame parents I can say he gets that from me lol.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

It's easier to see if he's overweight if you have a picture shot from above, while he's just sitting normally. It does look like he's a bit on the pudgy side though, and agreed that the protein/fat are too high. I would try to find a food that's 12-15% fat. There's a couple of food lists in the stickies at the top of this (the Nutrition) forum - Recommended Foods, and a Cat Food List. The Recommended Foods one is a list of the foods that are more popular and usually pretty easily found, so that might help you out more than the overwhelming list of choices on the CFL!


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## zamxonk (Mar 6, 2013)

So 30-35% is the maximum amount of protein you want - if you can find anything lower, that's good, but not all-important. As long as your hedgie's kidneys are working fine, it'll be okay.

When you transition, start out by giving just a few kibble of the new stuff every night for a week and see if he'll eat it. No worries if he doesn't right away - you're getting him used to the scent and hopefully the taste. Then increase the amount gradually - a week with it as 1/4 of his food, and see if that causes any tummy upset. If not, the next week, increase it to 1/2 his food and see how he does. There, you can either decide to fully transition, stay there, or to gradually replace the higher fat food with another low fat one. You can calculate the fat percentage of the mixture pretty easily. 

Your first food has a Dry Matter Basis fat content of 20%. Let's say your second food says 11% fat and 10% moisture content on the label. 
100 - 10 (moisture content) = 90. 
11 (fat content)/90 = .12222 x 100 = 12% fat on a dry matter basis.

If you're feeding half the original food and half the new one:
(20x.5)+(12x.5)= (10)+(6) = 16% fat for the new mix, a little higher than you're shooting for.


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## hemigirl (Jul 15, 2013)

Thank you everyone. I will do a shot of him sitting regularly when we have our snuggle time. Thanks for all the calculations and stuff I will defiantly take pics of the cat food and go through everything then I can compare it from the charts here also.


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## hemigirl (Jul 15, 2013)

Here is two more pic of sonic. Someone said to do one looking down. Sorry this is the best I can get. My hubby is gone for the night and sonic won't lay down anywhere other then on me and under a blanket. If you need better once my hubby is home I can get them


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## abbys (Oct 13, 2012)

He's adorably pudge-tastic! But yeah, he could stand to trim down a bit.  I'd recommend looking into foods that others mentioned and he'll be svelte in no time!


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## Sonics1AndOnlyGirl (May 25, 2013)

Yeah he does look a bit fat. He's cute though! Love his color!


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## hemigirl (Jul 15, 2013)

Thank you everyone. I just weighed myself on the scale and then weighed myself holding sonic. I took the weight with him and subtracted my weight and he weighs 1.6lbs. I will definitely look into new foods. I feel bad because I should have known better.  As long as he isn't in harms way I don't feel so bad.


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## Sonics1AndOnlyGirl (May 25, 2013)

Hey it's alright things happen. At least you haven't dropped your hedgie yet. I did once and I was so worried but my little buddy was ok.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

Agreed, don't get too hard on yourself - you realized something was up, you asked for more information, and you're planning to make the necessary changes for his health. All of those are signs of a great owner.  You wouldn't be the first person by FAR to be given the wrong information or food from a pet store, or even from breeders.


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## hemigirl (Jul 15, 2013)

oh my goodness. I would panic. He was crawling on me at camp, and he climbed over my shoulder went to go down the pillow and I couldn't grab him in time and he fell onto the bed on his side and I felt horrible. He was side down with his cubby butt in the air.


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## hemigirl (Jul 15, 2013)

Lilysmommy said:


> Agreed, don't get too hard on yourself - you realized something was up, you asked for more information, and you're planning to make the necessary changes for his health. All of those are signs of a great owner.  You wouldn't be the first person by FAR to be given the wrong information or food from a pet store, or even from breeders.


Thank you. I originally wanted to go to a breeder to get him. But I couldn't find any breeders even close to me. Then I seen him alone in the cage at the pet store. He did not like the lady when he held her but he caused my heart to melt right there and I knew he was mine and I had to take him home. What is the normal weight range for Hedgies?


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## Sonics1AndOnlyGirl (May 25, 2013)

hemigirl said:


> oh my goodness. I would panic. He was crawling on me at camp, and he climbed over my shoulder went to go down the pillow and I couldn't grab him in time and he fell onto the bed on his side and I felt horrible. He was side down with his cubby butt in the air.


Your lucky he landed on a soft surface. Mine wasn't so lucky, fell into the bath tub.

There is no weight range. Every hedgie is different. Some can be 800g and not be overweight.


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## hemigirl (Jul 15, 2013)

Sonics1AndOnlyGirl said:


> Your lucky he landed on a soft surface. Mine wasn't so lucky, fell into the bath tub.


I hope he is ok  poor little guy. My time will come probably when I least expect it.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

That's one of the difficult parts of hedgies. "Average weight" can be anything from 250 grams to 1000 grams. I would say the majority of hedgies these days fall from 250-500 grams though - breeders have been breeding for smaller hedgies mostly, I think. But that's why I asked to see a picture of him from above. Rather than relying solely on numbers to gauge whether a hedgie is at a healthy weight, it's usually better to also look at the body shape from above. Underweight hedgies have caved-in sides, like ) (. Runners have straight sides | |, normal hedgies usually have a tear drop shape or slightly rounded like ( ), and overweight hedgies start looking as wide as they do long. Weighing a hedgie weekly (like what's recommended) is generally to keep an eye out for trends in the weight, such as constantly increasing or decreasing.


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## abbys (Oct 13, 2012)

There isn't a normal weight range just because they all vary in size so much. But looking at your boy, maybe 1lb, 1.2lbs? It really depends on each individual hedgie.  I suggest a digital scale, like a little kitchen one for weighing food.


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## hemigirl (Jul 15, 2013)

Thank you Lilysmommy. At least I know sonic is not there yet but slowly getting there. Enough time to help him get slimmed up.  I didn't make it to the pet store today to start scoping out what they had for food so I will head there tomorrow and get my list going. I will probably come back with a list and pictures LOL.

I love having this forum to come to everyone is so helpful and friendly. I tried one other one once when I first got sonic and well it didn't work so well no one was ever on it.


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## hemigirl (Jul 15, 2013)

abbys said:


> There isn't a normal weight range just because they all vary in size so much. But looking at your boy, maybe 1lb, 1.2lbs? It really depends on each individual hedgie.  I suggest a digital scale, like a little kitchen one for weighing food.


he is actually 1.6lbs. I figured it out earlier. When we were having snuggle time and he was all relaxed so we went for a stroll to the bathroom. I plan on getting a digital scale of his own once I got the extra cash but I figured it cant hurt to much to weigh myself and then me holding him. I will do it again when hubby is home and see if we get matching weights for him.


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## hemigirl (Jul 15, 2013)

Good evening everyone. I went on the food hunt this evening and came up with a couple different ones. I took pictures of all the bags and this is all our pet store has. Thoughts? Hope this helps. I took them all in order of the bags. http://www.hillspet.com/products/sd-feline-adult-light-cat-food-dry.html this one I forgot to get pics of the ingredients and guide. Is their food suppose to be grain-free? Also, his current food says deboned turkey does it matter if it says deboned or just says turkey?


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## hemigirl (Jul 15, 2013)

I looked through the foodchart and the only one in Green is the Wellness one so does that mean I should go for that one? Sorry to be a pain in the butt


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

I'd personally avoid the Hill's Science Diet - it tends to be more expensive than it's really worth in terms of ingredients. Performatrin and Nutram both have corn in them, which is usually best to avoid, but if they're the best your pet store has, they don't look too bad. At least they both have chicken meal as first or second ingredient. Personally, I'd go with the Wellness and the Nutram first, to make sure the fat doesn't get TOO low for him instead. Wellness can be too rich for some hedgies though, and cause stinky, loose poops. If that happens with him, you could switch it out for the Performatrin instead.

And you're not a pain in the butt at all.  Food can be pretty confusing, especially for newer owners.


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## hemigirl (Jul 15, 2013)

ok so do I need to get both the wellness and Nutram or can I just do the wellness and go from there. I rather stay away from the things that can be dangerous to him.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

Nothing about the Nutram is dangerous, really. Corn's not optimal because it's usually a cheap filler, and it's often found in foods that have other, more dangerous ingredients. There's nothing wrong with the rest of the ingredients though, and corn won't actually harm him. You can definitely give Wellness a go first though, since foods should be introduced one at a time. Perhaps you can check around & see if there's other stores nearby that have more food options while you're doing that? If you're willing & able to buy online, there's www.petfooddirect.com which ships to Canada if you place an order by phone. That may end up being too expensive though...some Canadian members might know of some other stores/sites that ship.

Edit: Oh, and it'd be best to have a mix of two or more foods - it covers more nutrient territory since we don't know their exact needs, and it's a good safeguard in case you're unable to get one food suddenly, or there's a recall. Then you don't have to panic about doing a cold switch or having him food strike.


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## hemigirl (Jul 15, 2013)

Thanks lilysmommy you are very helpful. I live on a boarder town so when I have a chance I can hop the bridge and go to the petsmart there. Just not do able over the next few days. I will grab the wellness and I don't plan on doing a cold switch and do one step at a time.  He loves eating some food out of my hand so that will be a good way to test if he will eat it too. I got my list and my pics and an idea of what to look for so when we do go across the river I can check it out.


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## Annie&Tibbers (Apr 16, 2013)

On cute, Canadian advice! Although Pets & Ponds has better prices for equipment, the only place I know that ships cat food from this side of the border is PetSmart. It'd be a bit obnoxious to ship something and have your hedgehog turn up his nose at it, though, so best if you can find someone local.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

Hehe, good timing, Annie!

And ahh, that's right, I remember you saying you live close to the border now. Sounds like a great plan, and good luck with the Wellness! I hope he takes well to it, both in taste and tummy. And no problem, I love helping, especially with food things.


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## hemigirl (Jul 15, 2013)

I went and picked up Sonic's new food today. I gave him a kibble and he ate it. Woohoo. Now when I look at it it seems to be a bit bigger then his original food. Should I water it down some? Its rounder. I took a picture his original food is the one on the left and the new one is the one on the right. Fingers crossed that there will be no tummy upsets.


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## abbys (Oct 13, 2012)

I wouldn't water it down as it could grow bacteria more easily and spoil. You can get a food chopper like this: http://www.crateandbarrel.com/oxo-c...g&matchtype=&gclid=CM6Z2oq1kbkCFaU5QgodjkoA3A

And chop a bunch up into smaller bits ahead of time so you don't have to do it daily. Just be careful because if the kibble is really hard (like dog kibble) it can damage the blades more easily.


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## hemigirl (Jul 15, 2013)

Thank you Abbys. The first piece that he had a little bit fell out of his mouth after he bit it so that made me think that it might have been to big for him. Just don't want him choking.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

Crushing or chopping it up definitely wouldn't hurt. At least the shape is a good one though - I think he'd be less likely to choke on a triangle like that then a round, cylinder shape (it fits in the roof of their mouth better & can get stuck).


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## hemigirl (Jul 15, 2013)

The round one is his new food. So I started chopping it with a knife for now. I thought about using the blender but my luck it would end up all crushed and he probably wouldn't eat it. So the round ones I just cut in half.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

Oops, got confused! Yeah, chopping in half is a good idea for that shape then.


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## hemigirl (Jul 15, 2013)

Update: Sonic has been liking his new food with no problems. But now what confuses me is how people say that you should mix their food. So does this mean both kinds in his bowl at once. like 1tbsp of one kind and 1tbsp of the other? How do you know if it is to much protein and fat? I've been checking out other kinds and I've seen lots of people say http://www.chickensoupforthepetloverssoul.com/products/cats/dry_food/adult_cat_light_formula/ and this http://bluebuffalo.com/cat-food/bc-weight-control-chicken?pf=1&type=dry&animal=cat. But with what I currently have http://www.wellnesspetfood.com/product-details.aspx?pet=cat&pid=20#guaranteed-analysis. I just don't want to have to much fat, so that I run with the same issue as the original food I had for him. or should I just leave it on the one food for now and see if his weight goes down?


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

Yup, mixing would be putting both kinds of food in the bowl at the same time. To get the fat & protein percentages of the mix, you add the percentage together from each food, then divide by the number of foods. So for Wellness and Chicken Soup, the mix protein level would be 30 + 32 = 62/2 = 31% protein.

Since both of those foods are also low in fat, I don't think there'd be any issues with adding them to the Wellness.  And with all of the recalls lately, it'd be a good idea to have two different brands that he's used to, in case one gets recalled or becomes unavailable.


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## hemigirl (Jul 15, 2013)

Awesome Thank you Lilysmommy, I just wasn't sure how the math was figured out. ( I'm horrible at math). so the fat to figure out would be pretty much the same way also correct? Still try and stay below 15% for fat too correct?


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

Yup, fat is the same too! And yes, if he's prone to putting on weight, etc. then I'd stick with below 15%. Continue to keep an eye on the weight/body shape though - if he does start to lose, make sure he doesn't end up losing too much instead! 10% and below can be too low for some hedgies, but he might do just fine on it. So it's just a matter of wait-and-see.


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## hemigirl (Jul 15, 2013)

Thank you again...I feel so dumb for asking a million questions but I rather be safe then sorry and try to guess on my own.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

No need to feel dumb! Definitely better to ask, and we're always happy to help out around here.  I tend to ask a lot of questions too - just ask my manager at work! I'm pretty sure I annoy her sometimes when I'm asking a bunch all at once. :lol:


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## hemigirl (Jul 15, 2013)

So I started Sonic's food with the Chicken Soup for the Cat lovers soul light plus the wellness and and now I noticed this morning that some of his poop in his wheel looks a little bit lighter brown. I'm not sure if I'm being a paranoid person or anything. He does have some normal poops that are the darker color they were before sitting in his little pan under the wheel. I know people said that the Wellness could be to rich for some hedgies...and he seems to like the Chicken Soup one better because its rounder and a bit softer. Should I just leave it and watch him for a couple days? Or should I try the chicken soup alone and see if there is a difference? Ever since starting the switch from his old food he seems to have mushier poops but not as much as what he use to have. I feel terrible for changing from his original food but like everyone said it was to high in fat.


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## hemigirl (Jul 15, 2013)

Ok it's been awhile since posted about his. I weighed sonic tonight and he weights 850g or 1lb 14 oz. When I originally posted I switched his food to the Chicken Soup for the Cat lovers soul light so he has gained weight since. He runs on his wheel at night and has play time still for a couple of hours during the day. I don't know what else to do to bring his weight down.


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## JulieAnne (Sep 3, 2012)

Is he eating more? What is the fat content of your mix?


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## hemigirl (Jul 15, 2013)

No he isn't eating more. I have always free fed him but I am going to cut that down. He always has lots of food left over and I've been terrified that if I didn't make sure he had food in his dish he would starve. The fat content is only 9%. I was told to try doing no more then 1.5 tb of food a night.


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## JulieAnne (Sep 3, 2012)

It's very odd for him to gain weight at 9% fat... do you give him any treats?


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## hemigirl (Jul 15, 2013)

He rarely gets any treats. I try not to do that especially to often. Lately I've been giving him a little when I cut his nails to teach him that nail cutting is a good thing.


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## ceopet (Sep 20, 2013)

If he is still gaining weight with that low of a fat and protein percentage I'd see about getting him in to the vet, you never know if something serious can be going on inside there.


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