# I want to be different... what do you guys think?



## CmdrVimes (Oct 3, 2012)

Hi guys,

Being a reptile owner as well as a furry owner, we are not really into cute and cuddly fleecy things... and to be honest, I know APH's are not found in the wild, but their ancestors are.

My Fiance and I have envisioned a viv for my prospective hoggy, and when mentioned on a UK forum, there were a few replies that didn't quite get our "natural" idea.

The plan was to line and seal the viv with linoleum at the bottom, to make thorough clean ups easier and to make the bottom watertight as it is sitting on top of another viv.

On top of this, for substrate I would like to either use sterilised soil, (you can buy it in bags at the garden centre, it is perfect for burrowing reptiles - clean and sterile, NO chance of harbouring parasites or other horried "anti-hoggy" creatures) or coconut fibre if you all think soil won't be appropriate, - both looking natural and both providing a perfectly natural substrate for digging and burrowing.

For decor, the plan was to get some dried brown leaves - indian Almond leaves which my Fiance used to use in his fish aquarium to create a natural looking brownish tinge to the water, ((again, totally sterile and no chance of harbouring parasites etc) if they are safe for fish, they'll be safe for hoggies surely?) this would imitate a natural forest floor, perfect for ickle hoggies to burrow into to keep nice and snug and warm. 

I would also get some bogwood and some sterile sticks and twigs, (not sharp poky ones because of hoggy eyes and soft squishy bits) and perhaps a few fake ferns or grasses and add them also.

This would make my hoggie home look COMPLETELY natural, just like a little bit of forest in our living room.

What do you all think about this?

I know that MOST hoggy owners prefer cute and cuddly fleeces, but wild hoggies would never come into contact with such things, so why can't a pet hoggy have it's own little bit of forest?

I await your most valued input..

Obviously if there are health and medical reasons why a hoggy MUST have soft fleece, or aspen, (which I think is really nasty and pointy and splintery) or finacard... then I am open to explanation.

If I cannot imitate a natural forest floor, the backup plan would be finacard, as I hate the woodbased substrates, they are all spiky and not soft and safe at all. (IMHO)

*sits and awaits replies*  xxxxx



Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2


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## Draenog (Feb 27, 2012)

I've thought about things like this, since I really like pretty vivs. But honestly, I'm not sure if it's such a good idea if you look at the practical side. Most people use fleece because it's a) easy b) cheap c) safe, not because it's "cute". I think the soil will be a pain in the ass to clean off your hog - it will stick everywhere between the quills. Most people don't use wood because it can harbour mites, etc. Also, your hedgehog needs a wheel, where does this fit in your natural idea or are you just going to put it somewhere in the cage?
The second thing is, the ancestors of the APH are from Africa. What you are describing - soil, forest-like and almost tropical isn't their wild environment. The four-toed hedgehog lives on savannah's and avoids forests. Dry, rocky and grassy areas are where it lives. The Algerian hedgehog is also from Africa but lives in less dry regions.

I personally use finacard, and it works great here (I can't wash liners in the washing machine and they smelled more). Aspen is quite sharp and the little pieces can get stuck in nasty places (like the penile sheath of male hedgehogs). Maybe it's an idea to combine safe and more practical things with a more natural look? There must be some things you could use, for example you could make your own natural looking hidey-hut instead of buying a plastic igloo (maybe even integrate it with the rest of the cage like people with reptiles build little 'caves' and backgrounds out of that foamy? stuff *I don't know the name*).
It's just an idea but maybe you could use this stuff and make more rock-like formations, a little cave to sleep in, and use a substrate like finacard instead of soil. I've seen an awesome viv somewhere from someone who had a print of a forest-like scene stuck to the back of the viv as a 'background'. I've seen some people use fake plants, but I'm not sure if that's totally save and a good idea, so if someone knows more about that please tell. Otherwise you could also use fake long desert like grass as a decoration? And buy more "rock like" water/food bowls you can find in the reptile section instead of shiny food/water bowls. Just some ideas.


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## AngelaH (Jul 24, 2012)

Sounds very cool to me! Fleece and plastic items are cheap and easier to clean and sterilize which is why I changed to them from more natural items (my girl is good about using litter box now but poop still manages to be tracked all over, and as a baby she pooped and peed on everything!) Also, I've read to store those natural items in the freezer for a day to kill off any harboring mites and such. If you end up doing this I'd love to see pictures!


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## LizardGirl (Aug 25, 2008)

Just a quick comment, so long as you have everything sterile and safe, I don't really see a problem with it (unless your hedgie is going to be inhaling something dusty they shouldn't or what not). Do you plan on disguising the wheel? That would be funny.

What I wanted to mention was that our hedgies are not actually from "forest" area... they're predominantly from Niger. Not exactly the forests we think of and what you might be trying to accomplish with your habitat. I'm not exactly sure where this picture was taken, but for a natural habitat I would be thinking something more like this:


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## ktdid (Aug 7, 2012)

I think that sounds pretty cool and if you do it I definitely want to see pictures. If it were me I would be concerned about cleaning because even though mine is litter trained, accidents do happen and I need to wash his fleece because of it. Also I feel like he would get dirty too. While that is obviously normal and natural at the end of the day our hedgies are still a domesticated pet that we want to play with and cuddle. I wouldn't let him run around my house/bed if he had been burrowing in dirt all day, I see how dirty he gets with nothing in his cage to get dirty from. Cleanliness is part of domestication so I think it should be a consideration.


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## CmdrVimes (Oct 3, 2012)

*Re: @qqqqRe: I want to be different... what do you guys think?*

Hmmm, thank you so much for all your input, this has really helped.  
I am now in two minds about using the soil/coconut fibre as substrate. I'm not worried about ME getting dirty when I get him/her out to play/cuddle, I'm worried about hoggy ingesting the substrate, or getting the miniscule soil/coconut fibre particles stuck in little creases etc that REALLY need to be kept clean.

I could dampen the substrate to prevent the "dust" but this would greatly raise the humidity, and the warm and humid substrate would be as nectar is to a bee, to any nasty bacteria etc?

Our house is stupidly humid as it is (anything between 50-80% every day) anyway, so adding MORE humidity would most likely cause respiratory infections like in reptiles, yes?

When the viv belonged to my beardie, with a halogen bulb as the heat lamp and the uv tube, it was getting as low as 30% humidity in the viv, would this be TOO dry? Though, he didn't have a water source at the time because he never touched it and it was making the humidity too high. I would be obviously using a CHE, I already have the ceramic fitting because the vivid was for my python prior to getting my beardie (RIP Dexter :-( taken too soon!)

I think I'm going to end up using finacard to be honest, I think it would be the best option for what I want to do. I wouldn't touch woodbased substrates anyway. [email protected] massive wood shavings bale brought mites into my three-strong piggy family (guinea pigs) when I had them, I would never touch wood again, apart from Oscar's wood pellets as cat litter, but that is different.

Right, I'm falling asleep so I shall finish here and continue in the morning. 

Love and hugs

CV xxxxx

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

Yeah, my concern on loose substrates is always where it might get stuck - males especially are prone to getting substrates stuck in their penile sheath and it can cause serious problems. I remember a thread talking about a male who literally mutilated himself chewing at himself because he had something stuck in his sheath. Females can get things caught too, and I would think that, like in humans, they're more prone than males to things like UTIs, so that might increase the chance of that. 

I would be cautious with the humidity as well, like you said. Breeds mold, bacteria, and can cause URIs. I can understand the attraction of creating a more natural looking habitat, but I'm also so paranoid that I worry about what all could happen with that. After all, there's numerous reasons why hedgehogs in the wild only live until 2-3 years old and I'm sure not all of them are predation/human-related.


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## sweetergrrrl (May 5, 2009)

I use the soil/ coconut fiber for my Neon Tree Dragon. I thought about throwing some in a dig box for Link and Navi, but the idea of getting all the bits out of their quills made me stop lol.


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## NoDivision (Aug 29, 2010)

I think there are a lot of things you can do to make the habitat more natural in appearance without actually using natural materials. That would be the way I'd close to go if it were me.


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