# For Experienced Breeders/Former Breeders/Owners w/ 2+ Years



## Guest (Aug 6, 2011)

*This post is a follow up to my original cat food list which has since evolved into an idea I agree I can take on and will be compiling featuring all major food categories currently used in a hedgehogs diet.*

I would ask in the first portion that only experienced Breeders/Former Breeders/Owners with 2 + years of experience minimum respond to this project, as it evolves and I submit it for revision to experienced breeders and owners who wish to participate I will then open it to people who are newer to hedgehog ownership for their opinions.

I am looking for first and foremost you owners and breeders who have dealt with the changing diets, the findings from different foods and how it affected the hedgehog both positively and negatively. If you had a hedgehog have complications or death due to any diet issues or long term effects while I know it may be tough to talk about I would appreciate this info in better understanding. While it may or may not matter I am interested to see diet differences in a White-Bellied vs Algerian if there is any so if you can recall anything of that like it may be important to separate in this health listing.

I am currently setting up a site where I will have survey(s) setup to assist in this and please note you may take your time to fill these out and I am merely requesting your participation so we can compile our hedgehog diets to get a clear picture of things. As it stands I think all of us can agree we've been looking at hedgehog diets through a toilet paper tube and missed examining it as a whole and why change what has worked for you is how I see it.

If you would like to assist me in this project and/or can provide information or contact others that have the asked experience with hedgehogs to participate please let them know. I will be attempting to contact people outside of HHC either way and even contacting those with considerably less them agreeable diets to most peoples opinions as seeing the whole picture is my goal in this project.

I can be reached via email [email protected]

I will post a survey shortly that will assist you in better organizing what I am thinking of. In addition please let me know if you feel there is more to add I want input to make this a very helpful resource.


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## Guest (Aug 6, 2011)

-=Reposted from Cat Food List Version 3.0=-

As it stands right now I will be asking those with long term experience of at minimum two years of hedgehog ownership and breeders/former breeders with at least two years experience on their diet reasoning and found methods.

As I feel comfortable I will be asking people with less experience or people trying creative ideas in diets and their findings.

Keep in mind I know there will be opinions, but I want to try to lean towards opinionated factors as in I have found feeding _____ has led to issues in their digestive track or I have found since switching to _____ their skin has been increasingly less dry or I have found by adding a _____ fruit to their daily diet their activeness has increased.

Those are just examples, I will be challenging everything cause I want this list to have solid reasoning to fruits/veggies, cooked meats, baby food, kibble, dog kibble, etc.

I am expecting this project to take anywhere up to 3 months (Likely More) depending on free time, I will be wanting to contact plenty of experienced people and owners on their thoughts and feelings on the subject and will ensure the list includes the following:

*
Cat Food
- Ingredients
- Protein/Fat/Fiber/Moisture %(s)
- Kibble Size (I will do my best to compile this however I do not know if this will be complete)
- Reason(s) both positive and negative found by adding it to a hedgehog diet.

Dog Food
- Ingredients
- Protein/Fat/Fiber/Moisture %(s)
- Kibble Size (I will do my best to compile this however I do not know if this will be complete)
- Reason(s) both positive and negative found by adding it to a hedgehog diet.

Cooked Meats
- How Cooked
- Fat/lean content
- Reason(s) both positive and negative found by adding it to a hedgehog diet.

Cooked Meatball w/Veggies
- How Cooked
- Vegetables added
- Fat/lean content
- Reason(s) both positive and negative found by adding it to a hedgehog diet.

Baby Foods
- Ingredients
- Amount per serving of Fat/Fiber/Sugars/Protein (In Grams)
- Reason(s) both positive and negative found by adding it to a hedgehog diet.

Fruit & Veggies
- Serving Size of Fruit/Veggie
- Reason(s) both positive and negative found by adding it to a hedgehog diet.

Insects
- Size of Insect Species (Mostly the worms as they vary in sizes)
- Nutritional Content
- What they are gut fed prior to being feed to hedgehogs
- Fed Alive/Frozen & Defrosted
- Reason(s) both positive and negative found by adding it to a hedgehog diet.
*

If someone feels I missed something feel free to let me know I will be open to expanding this listing within reason


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## LizardGirl (Aug 25, 2008)

Looking forward to going through the survey to try and help! Thank you for taking the time and effort to do this well, it'll be a great resource when it's all done.


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

This will be great. When you are finished, HHC will have the best food list ever.


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## Quinn (Apr 24, 2011)

Agree! Now hurry up so I can print a copy! Hahahha just kidding! But I really appreciate the efforts and I do look forward to the finished results so everyone can have access to it!


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## Guest (Aug 6, 2011)

Thank you for the support I am being optimistic for a early Winter release and will be relying on revisions by people willing to do so with long term experience and an open mind to a listing which expresses a comprehensive findings through those experiences of others.

The site should be up and operational by Tuesday with the survey(s) in place for basic diet information. I will add an email submission form for other details which the survey will not be able to cover.

I am proficient in Excel so I will be creating some sheets with charts on popular choices once I've gotten the information including charts on negative results on foods to better assist in all hedgehog owners in seeing statistical numbers.

I will also state any contributor who chooses to remain anonymous will be, otherwise I will be crediting each and every person who participates in assisting in this compilation.


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## Guest (Aug 8, 2011)

-=UPDATE=-

I have the site stable and gotten my first survey completed for the most part. I will be adding the other surveys for other diet thoughts fruits/veggies/cooked meats/insects/etc and completing a contact form for even more information which may have been left out on the survey at the participants discretion to use.

I will PM a few experienced people about testing the survey where I just ask you breeze through it put test where you are required to fill out the form to look it over and let me know what you think is additionally needed before I start asking for complete submissions to compile into my database.


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## Guest (Aug 9, 2011)

-=Update=-

I didn't do much today on the site so exhausted no REM sleep has left me pretty light headed, hopefully I will be getting some testers out there this week and going live with the first piece of the project by the following week


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## Guest (Aug 14, 2011)

I think I have finally found a application for building a survey which meets my needs I apologize for it not happening in the time I am wanting a few personal things came up but I am still dedicated to this project


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

Take your time. It's a big undertaking and I'm glad you are up for doing it.


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## Guest (Aug 14, 2011)

Being a perfectionist and extremely OCD makes it extremely difficult I am my worst critic XD

I've gotten a good portion to where I want its mostly wording I am playing with before releasing it to a few people for revision of it to see if I missed anything before I actually set it up live


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## Guest (Aug 19, 2011)

I think I have simplified it to my liking and left the survey submission form more open to the individual to input as they please.

I would like anyone would would assist me in looking over the form and fill it out (you can just put test in the input slots or whatever want to be sure there is no bugs) please PM me and I'll send the link I only need a few people to review it and let me know if the wording is right, anything I missed if you think certain areas should not be free form and multiple choice, and if I just plain missed something.


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## Guest (Sep 8, 2011)

I will begin this process for surveys officially next week with all luck to all experienced hedgehog owners I can get to participate in the HWS and other places


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## hanhan27 (May 12, 2011)

TW, I have lots of editing experience and would be happy to look over your stuff for any possible grammar/spelling errors and whatnot.


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## Guest (Sep 16, 2011)

Survey

Its ready to be completed I posted it with a few other places as well


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## Guest (Sep 16, 2011)

So far the Welfare Society Members who have seen it haven't been interested in participating and think its pointless and doesn't help anything. I thought it was pretty straight forward and clear and I will be posting it other places in hopes of results


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## kaZombie (Sep 12, 2011)

suggestion to add into the fruits and veggie sections- how it's served. I.E cold, cooked, sliced, whole, mashed, diced.


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## leaveittoweaver (Sep 25, 2010)

LizardGirl said:


> Looking forward to going through the survey to try and help! Thank you for taking the time and effort to do this well, it'll be a great resource when it's all done.


I thought there were too many lists floating around? Seems we have a little bit of a double standard on this forum. Playing favorites is never nice! If you have a rule for one it should be for all.


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## Guest (Sep 18, 2011)

I don't think its bias when last this discussion came up it was more a focus on the factor of no being opinionated and trying to find common denominators and hence I wanted to survey people with experience on the subject however most have been very against doing it which is a bit disheartening as I'm just curious to hedgehog health and not telling people they need to switch however they look at it as I've fed this it works you can use it or not I don't need to provide ingredients and analysis thats your decision and job to do.

Its hard when I just want to benefit all hedgehog welfare that those who preach wanting the same are defensive against something however I do not take insult it is their choice and right. I will press forward to try to compile data to see if there are some foods which are most commonly used with little to no health issues through lineages and the like.

As it stands the old list is sufficient for now to provide a spectrum for hedgehog owners


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## leaveittoweaver (Sep 25, 2010)

TWCOGAR said:


> I don't think its bias when last this discussion came up it was more a focus on the factor of no being opinionated and trying to find common denominators and hence I wanted to survey people with experience on the subject however most have been very against doing it which is a bit disheartening as I'm just curious to hedgehog health and not telling people they need to switch however they look at it as I've fed this it works you can use it or not I don't need to provide ingredients and analysis thats your decision and job to do.
> 
> Its hard when I just want to benefit all hedgehog welfare that those who preach wanting the same are defensive against something however I do not take insult it is their choice and right. I will press forward to try to compile data to see if there are some foods which are most commonly used with little to no health issues through lineages and the like.
> 
> As it stands the old list is sufficient for now to provide a spectrum for hedgehog owners


Just want you to know I'm not against you doing this and I think it's a good idea. I just don't think moderators should shut down one person's list and tell others they think THEREs will be a great rescource. It's very offensive and not at all impartial fir a mod to do this and does not create a community feel in the least.

Even though the list ideas are different, it's still a food list and in my opinion if you're going to allow one, you allow them all.


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## LizardGirl (Aug 25, 2008)

> I thought there were too many lists floating around? Seems we have a little bit of a double standard on this forum. Playing favorites is never nice! If you have a rule for one it should be for all.


TWCOGAR asked and got permission to research and start a new diet guideline / list. We've closed and deleted other lists besides yours too. I'm sorry you're unhappy with having your thread closed but this is the one list we're sticking with right now and it's best for new owners not to be confused by 10 different threads all saying different things.


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## leaveittoweaver (Sep 25, 2010)

You should be sorry. You really hurt my feelings with the way you responded like my list was a piece of crap and I've had other members say the same that it was rude. This place really needs to stop playing favorites and start giving a crap about the animals themselves and the more useful information out there the better! It is totally discouraging for the new comers. Not a single animal message board I am on treats members like this one. It's really a shame.


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

Here we go again. Why is it whenever someone doesn't like something that happens on here they say we play favourites. There is no playing favourites here. Had you asked if you could make a new food list you would have been denied. Had you asked prior to TWOCGAR asking, you would have been given permission. This is simply a case of,TWOCGAR asked first and since we already have a new improved food list in the works we don't need another. 

TWOCGAR did ask some time ago, was given permission to do a new food list and has been given a few suggestions on how to make it the best food list possible. He is trying to do far more than simply stating food ingredients. He will be compiling information given by hopefully many people on foods they have tried over the years, had success with, failures and what seems to work best for their hedgehogs. His list will be based on the experiences of many both veteran owners as well as new people. Hopefully he will get a good result from his survey. Once it is finished, the other food list or lists will be removed. All multiple lists do is confuse people as often they contradict one another. 

Hopefully, if enough people participate, maybe it will show some patterns in the health of the hedgehogs on certain foods.


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## Rainy (Jul 27, 2011)

Hey, I was just curious if the new list will include wet foods. Typically hedgies don't eat wet foods unless they are having trouble with teeth, but I've been looking for wet foods within the protein guidelines but with higher fat. Izzy and Harvey both need to gain weight. Just curious. It's not a big deal to calculate dry matter unless you're stuck in the cat food isle for two hours looking at every can. :roll:


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## Quinn (Apr 24, 2011)

Hahaha I agree with Rainy. I wanted to give some wet food for a treat every once and a while. And I was looking at so many cans and reading ingredients and labels that I just gave up. I pretty much have the guidelines of hedgie food requirements mesmerized but I want to make sure I get the best. So a wet cat food list would be appreciated...hint, hint TWCOGAR. lol


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## leaveittoweaver (Sep 25, 2010)

Quinn said:


> Hahaha I agree with Rainy. I wanted to give some wet food for a treat every once and a while. And I was looking at so many cans and reading ingredients and labels that I just gave up. I pretty much have the guidelines of hedgie food requirements mesmerized but I want to make sure I get the best. So a wet cat food list would be appreciated...hint, hint TWCOGAR. lol


To calculate dry matter protein, minus the amount of moisture from 100%, then divide the stated protein by the result you got from minusing the moisture. Then multiply that result by 100% and you have your answer 

Here's a link that explains it in more detail: http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/choosing- ... ter-basis/


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## Quinn (Apr 24, 2011)

Great! thanks for the link!!!


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## Kalandra (Aug 25, 2008)

If anyone here thinks we play favorites, then you are wrong. A long time ago I was approached about updating Reaper's food list as it is very outdated. I told TWCOGAR to give it a shot and lets see what he comes up with. There is no need for multiple lists, especially if those lists contain the same information. Work together, create a joint list, we are a community afterall.

Wet foods cannot be compared to dry foods without doing some math. The %s are skewed because of the water content, you have to convert both to dry matter basis. Most dry foods are 10% water, wet foods can be 90% water. To try to compare without converting to dry matter basis is like comparing apples to oranges. Both are foods, but no where near being the same thing.

I think there are many of us who have our own lists. I have one that I add to whenever I come across a new food. Mine contains the basics (protein, fat, etc) plus kcal/KG, fiber, Carb %, and shape. I also have formulas installed so that I can pick different foods and have it tell me what %s I'm really feeding as an even mix, or if I raise/lower one products amount in the mix. I add to it whenever I come across new foods, and whenever I have a specific dietary need.

Mine is created to help me figure out which foods I can feed to different health conditions. For example, I use the carb % when I have one who has cancer, I concentrate on the kcal/kg when I have one that needs more calories, etc.

I do not rely on anyone else here for food lists.


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## Guest (Sep 20, 2011)

Indeed and while I will eventually develop a easy non bias food listing of recommendations i am more excited about potentially linking some healthy things with diets to hedgehogs 

Right now my concentration is on the Primary Diet and the Supplemental Diet common to hedgehogs I will look towards wet food eventually though


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## Rainy (Jul 27, 2011)

Thanks for answering. I'll continue to take my calculator to the pet food isle. :lol: The employees probably think I'm a mystery shopper looking for problems in their store. :lol:


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## LizardGirl (Aug 25, 2008)

The survey link seems to be broken for me. Is it working for anyone else?


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## Guest (Sep 20, 2011)

Ifound an error it will be fixed tonight


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## Guest (Sep 20, 2011)

Managed to fix via my phone


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## Guest (Sep 26, 2011)

Alrighty I am no longer requiring people who submit to the survey put the ingredients or analysis as long as they provide the brand name exactly 

I finally got approved into the IHA so I'll be posting it with them shortly


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## CoxMD (Apr 30, 2010)

I am really looking forward to a new list! I think this is a great project and well worth the effort. With so many brands out there, especially at large chain stores, a compilation such as this will help greatly.  

Once you get this all put together, a list containing all good "senior" hedgehog diets would be great if it was do-able. IE smaller kibble size, easily digestible and tasty etc for those of us with aging critters. Many cat foods (okay, all of the ones that I've seen- I'm no expert) don't give you an idea of kibble size and hardness in particular. TWCOGAR, maybe this will be helpful, and maybe it won't, but I'll throw it out there anyway. Let us know when the survey is open to us less experienced folk!


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