# Quill loss and Temperature issues :(



## HydroThunder (Jan 18, 2011)

I am a fairly new hedgehog owner, but I have done lots of research before hand and have readied myself to properly take care of a hedgehog. I feel as though I have failed as a hedgie owner, even though i have tried so hard to take good care of her. I received Tofu (my hoglette) when she was about 6 months old. She had all her shots, was taken very good care of, and still is a sweetheart. 
Starting about a month ago, she moved homes from my girlfriends house to mine, and seemed to struggle to adjust. I changed her cage lining from the fresh care stuff some people use, to fleece material. She also used to live in a clear storage container, with good circulation. I wanted her to have more room so i connected another storage box with a PVC pipe, as I saw could be done online. One area is where she sleeps, the other exercise. 
I noticed that she would crawl into her sleeping pouch at times, and it would look like she was attempting to burrow deeper into the pouch, literally starting to tear through the material. I started noticing quill loss right behind her ears and a little bit right along the quill and fur border. I immediately took her to the vet and had some tests done for mites and fleas, which came up negative. 
When she changed homes, I had started to give her different food idiotically, and I realized that was a problem. She has been on her original food now for 3 weeks and her poo is normal again. 
Could she be burrowing because she is too cold? I purchased a space heater and use that now but unfortunately I work and am not always home to regulate it. 

Please tell me what might be wrong and what signs of new quill growth look like . the area where she lost the quills is pink and I am so scared I am mistreating her. 

What would be the best heating solution for me, since She is in plastic tubs, and CHE set ups have been known to melt them. 

A hedgie owner who desperately is looking for help, 
Yan


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## shaelikestaquitos (Feb 2, 2010)

Do you have a thermometer in her cage? Around how warm do you keep the cage?

If her quills are growing back, you will see new quills growing in soon... But that's as much as I can tell you in terms of the quilling. It might be that she might have mites... Is she scratching a lot?


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## HydroThunder (Jan 18, 2011)

Well she got tested not too long ago and it came up negativefor mites :/ there isn't much scratching and it's right behind her ears


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## nikki (Aug 28, 2008)

You said she had all her shots...what kind of shots did she have? Skin scrapings for mites often come out negative even if there are mites, it just means they didn't get any in the spot they scraped. Alot of people will treat with Revolution if they think their hedgie has mites. Because Revolution is so safe it doesn't hurt to treat just in case.

Does she have dry skin at all? Also do you have a thermometer to check the temp? if so what is the temp of her cage?


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## HydroThunder (Jan 18, 2011)

I feel like such a terrible owner.... I dont have a thermostat in her cage


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## nikki (Aug 28, 2008)

you are NOT a horrible owner, if you were you wouldn't be here looking for help!


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## HydroThunder (Jan 18, 2011)

I will purchas. A thermostat for her cage. I have started using flax seed oil. The quill loss doesn't seem to be improving :/ I might order some revolution. How long shoul it take for their quills to regrow?


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## HydroThunder (Jan 18, 2011)

bumping because I really need help


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## MissC (Nov 15, 2010)

One of the experts will be along...don't you worry...I'm just helping you bump this one.


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## pooka dotted (Jan 5, 2011)

Yes, an expert will be along hopefully soon, i'm also helping with the bumpification.


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## MissC (Nov 15, 2010)

pooka dotted said:


> bumpification.


 :lol: 
<snort>


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## susanaproenca (Aug 14, 2010)

You can use a CHE set up with a Sterilite bin, just don't rest the heat emitter directly on the plastic. 

Did she get tested for mites and skin infection, or fungus? 

You said she took all her shots, what shots were those?

How old is she?


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## Hodgeroo (Jan 20, 2011)

I'm not a huge hedgehog expert, but I do know that burrowing into a fleecy pouch is a pretty normal behavior for hedgehogs. They will often dig very energetically into the pouch, making the fabric pill up. Don't worry too much about that-your hedgie is probably just having some fun! Though I would still follow the advice given, and get a cage thermometer to make sure that the temp is around 75 degrees.

As for the quills falling out, am I right to estimate that your hedgie is about 7 months? My hedgehog Hodgins is about 7 months right now, and is experiencing a pretty intense quilling. I can see little tiny quills growing in, though they can be hard to see under the mature quills. Is is possible this is what is happening, and its just the most noticeable by the edge of the quills and skin? This seems more likely a possibility if your hedgehog doesn't have flaking skin, or scratching, AND your vet didn't come up with mites. You could try gently parting quills in the center of your hedgehogs body (I find these the most visible), and see if you see any tiny new quills coming in.

And...don't beat yourself up! Neither of these things are immediate concerns, and you are obviously a very loving hedgie owner to spend so much time worrying over your baby!


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## HydroThunder (Jan 18, 2011)

Thank you so much for all the help  

There are larger areas of quills missing behind her ears where the skin looks a bit purple or dark pink, and it is not sensitive to the touch. She does scratch but not to a noticeable extent. I will happy purchase her the CHE set up now that I know it is safe  
Would anyone know how much electricity that set up uses? I know that is very specific but most likely I will be paying for that part of the electric bill if consumes lots of energy. 


Thank you again so much  Tofu is very grateful.


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

A Ceramic Heat Emitter of 100 watts uses the same amount of electricity as a 100 watt light bulb. In other words, not much.


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## HydroThunder (Jan 18, 2011)

Nancy said:


> A Ceramic Heat Emitter of 100 watts uses the same amount of electricity as a 100 watt light bulb. In other words, not much.


perfect 

now i will just have to find a cheap set up since i realistically only have a 50$ budget at the moment


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## HydroThunder (Jan 18, 2011)

bump :/


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## susanaproenca (Aug 14, 2010)

Thermostat $30 bucks 
http://www.amazon.com/Zilla-Temperature ... 714&sr=8-1

CHE $20
http://www.amazon.com/Zoo-Med-ReptiCare ... 767&sr=1-1

Clamp lamp $15 bucks (including shipping)
http://www.amazon.com/FLUK-REPTA-CLAMP- ... 800&sr=1-8

Total: $65 (guess you'll have to make a sacrifice this weekend and stay home instead of going out hehe :lol: )


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## R3d foreman (Jan 1, 2011)

HydroThunder said:


> Nancy said:
> 
> 
> > A Ceramic Heat Emitter of 100 watts uses the same amount of electricity as a 100 watt light bulb. In other words, not much.
> ...


i know a lot of people recommend the thermostat but some stores sell the lamp enclosure with a dimmer knob on it so you can turn the power down...i would turn it all the way down and put the thermometer where it is pointing and turn it up every so often and continuously monitor the thermometer to where you want the temp

keep in mind if you do this though, and it gets hotter in the house, the lamp won't turn off the way it would with a thermostat so ... like the above post said, maybe sacrifice the steak this week for spaghettios to save for the little guy and spend the extra few bucks


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## nikki (Aug 28, 2008)

Relying on the dimmer switch is only safe if you're home all the time to keep checkign the temp. If your furnace when out while you weren't home, the CHE wouldn't keep the cage warm enough and you could easily come home to a hibernating hedgie.


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## R3d foreman (Jan 1, 2011)

R3d foreman said:


> *keep in mind if you do this though, and it gets hotter in the house, the lamp won't turn off the way it would with a thermostat* so ...





nikki said:


> Relying on the dimmer switch is only safe if you're home all the time to keep checkign the temp. * If your furnace when out while you weren't home, the CHE wouldn't keep the cage warm enough and you could easily come home to a hibernating hedgie.*


message is the same :mrgreen: thermostat > rheostat > nothing


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## HydroThunder (Jan 18, 2011)

I am now seeing tattered ears and some sore spots behind the ears it looks like? I think she does have mites  

Where can I order Revolution? Is it cheap?


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## HydroThunder (Jan 18, 2011)

bump for help please


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## suwanee (Nov 15, 2010)

You can check prices on line...http://www.vetrxdirect.com/product/view ... n-for-cats
about $40

Call your local pet stores and ask for prices, you can get it faster that way, and not pay for shipping.


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## susanaproenca (Aug 14, 2010)

Be aware of the stuff you order online... I have read here in this forum that some of it is shipped overseas and won't work.

It will probably cost about $20 at your vet. Plus the vet visit, but if you've seen your vet recently you might be able to get some without taking her in.

edited to add: for tattered ears, you can rub a little bit of flaxseed oil on them (make sure it does not go inside the ear.)


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## HydroThunder (Jan 18, 2011)

there also seems to be a green tint to her poop.....
oh god i feel so bad! she must be suffering and i dont have the resources to get her everything she needs right now


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## susanaproenca (Aug 14, 2010)

Green poop can be caused by stress, or an infection, or upset tummy because of food changes.

Have you changed anything in her environment that might have caused stress on her? New food, bedding, pets in the house? 

How long has she been having green poop?

Any other new symptom? 

Did she tried to hibernate?


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## HydroThunder (Jan 18, 2011)

well i did give her a new bed a few weeks ago because she would just burrow through it and pull quills out of her head  there are lots of quills i find in her bedding now but i cant go to the vet im having financial issues. 
she hasnt been using her wheel very much in the past few days...


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## susanaproenca (Aug 14, 2010)

HydroThunder said:


> well i did give her a new bed a few weeks ago because she would just burrow through it and pull quills out of her head  there are lots of quills i find in her bedding now but i cant go to the vet im having financial issues.
> she hasnt been using her wheel very much in the past few days...


It sounds to me like she is too cold, that would cause the lack of activity. If she's trying to hibernate at night when the temperature is colder, it is very stressful for them and it could explain the green poop.

What's the temperature in your house?

You can get a few water bottles, fill them with hot water, place them inside a couple socks and put it in the cage. Make sure it's not too hot, you don't want to burn her. Those heat therapy things sold at pharmacies would work too, get a few and wrap them in fleece, and place it in the cage. This is not ideal but it will help as a temporary measure.

Please make sure she's eating something. Fat liver disease can develop after only a few days without eating. Count all the kibble you put in her cage, then count again in the morning to see how much she ate. You can put a few kibble in bed with her, sometimes they will eat in bed.

Where are you located? I'm asking because maybe there's someone nearby who could help you out with her.


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## HydroThunder (Jan 18, 2011)

thank you for the idea. I have ordered a better heating system and thermometer i just havent had the money. 
This is what her cage looks like:










its hard to see because it is small but the front section is her wheel and food and water. 
the back section is where she had her bed and sleeping area. 
Would moving the food closer help while i wait for the new heating system?

Could the temperature be why she is losing quills?


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## susanaproenca (Aug 14, 2010)

The floor is the coldest area in your house so moving her cage to a table would help a little.

How old is she? Are you sure she isn't quilling? 

I think that until your heat set up arrives it would be a good idea to have it all in one bin. It's easier to keep the temperature at a safe range in one bin than in two. 

I was reading your posts again, could you post a picture of the pink skin behind her ears?


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## HydroThunder (Jan 18, 2011)

yes i will go ahead and try... wow this is really hard lol


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## HydroThunder (Jan 18, 2011)

here are some pictures my sister had to to help me with. Dont mind her making silly faces  


















Its rough pictures because she was so squirmy, but I tried. As you can see the skin behind the ears is raw and pink. and from the touch it looks like no new quills are growing in.

Im very worried about her  I also dont want to be viewed as an abusive or bad owner because of her condition I really do take good care of her


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## Ophelia (Dec 10, 2010)

Can't help much, but my hedgehog has "empty" spots behind her ears. Not much hair there(no quills), besides like, a few pieces. I was concerned about it at first, but I think it's normal?


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## susanaproenca (Aug 14, 2010)

If you were an abusive bad owner I bet you wouldn't be here looking for help. 

As Ophelia said, hedgehogs have an empty space behind the ears, I don't know if all do but my two girls have them as well and it's normal. You said the skin is raw, does it look irritated? Is she scratching a lot? 

How old is Tofu? And what food is she eating?


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## HydroThunder (Jan 18, 2011)

she is 7 months old and she eats royal canin indoor adult 27. 
There was minimal wheel usage again but she ate lots of food and water. I kept the room very very warm last night to no avail. Im getting worried


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## susanaproenca (Aug 14, 2010)

I know you're having trouble keeping a constant temperature because you're using a space heater and aren't home during the day... So I was wondering if you could use a thermostat with the space heater? If so the thermostat would shut the heater off when the safe temperature was reached. And a thermostat would cost you about $30 instead of $60 for a whole CHE set up.


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## HydroThunder (Jan 18, 2011)

I have scheduled her an appointment with the vet this coming teusday. Besides the Revolution is there anything else I might want to talk to the doctor about?


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## susanaproenca (Aug 14, 2010)

If she hadn't had a fecal done since you got her, you might want to ask for one. You'll have to take a stool sample with you. Just get the freshest poop you're able to and put it in a zip loc bag.


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## HydroThunder (Jan 18, 2011)

Her appointment is tomorrow. I will ask the vet to order some revolution and maybe she could direct me to some other heating alternatives while i wait for the CHE setup


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## HydroThunder (Jan 18, 2011)

So the vet had Revolution at the clinic, and gave me the proper dosage and everything. I administered the first treatment today and she has been napping :/ 

The vet also suggest i do and intensive cleaning of the cage every 2 weeks with each new dosage. 

Is there anything else you guys might suggest i can do to help her in the meantime?


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## HydroThunder (Jan 18, 2011)

After a long delay, Tofu seems to finally be doing better. What I think the problem was, was a combination of harsh detergent for her bedding, lack of insectivore food (cat foods werent enough) lack of mealworms, and unfortunately my mother only just asked me the other week: "I dont understand why you bathe her with that soap, I emptied that out long ago and it has some harsh chemicals in there."

Apparently the bottle of soap I thought I was washing her with was filled with a very hardcore soap, which would explain a lot.

There has been a completely stop almost in her quill loss, and her poop is looking very healthy. All I can hope for now is that she can regrow as many quills as possible and that she completely recovers safely.

I just wanted to say thank you to all of you hedgie owners, and all of the kind people who helped figure out what was wrong. I obviously couldnt do it by myself, and I know Tofu is forever grateful.

Now if you will excuse me Im going to go have play time with my hedgehog


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## susanaproenca (Aug 14, 2010)

Oh wow, it's good to hear she is doing so much better. May I ask what are you feeding her now?


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## HydroThunder (Jan 18, 2011)

i went ahead and ordered her the insectivore diet off of the Mizouri (i think thats how you spell it?)website. 

Specialized food for insectivores and I have been giving her normal mealworms


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## danilious (Dec 14, 2010)

help will come .. im sure of it .


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## HydroThunder (Jan 18, 2011)

Im posting in this thread again because I am getting very desperate for help. Tofu has lost a large amount of quills, leading to very bald spots on her back and some on her sides. She still itches and her quills almost seem like they arent rooted as strongly as before. I am in Corvallis Oregon and am looking for anyone who can help at all. 

I havent stopped trying to cure Tofu since the problem started and I can only bare seeing her like this for so long.


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## Guest (Sep 26, 2011)

She needs a vets to give her examination scratching is usually mites which from reading this before she was treated for.

Are there scabs or Yellowish/Orangish Gunk?



> - How old is your hedgehog? Please state year plus months as a 3 year 1 month old hedgehog is not the same as a 3 year 11 month old hedgehog.
> - How long have you owned your hedgehog?
> - Has there been any changes in the 2-3 weeks prior to the symptoms starting, such as, you on vacation, hedgie cared for by someone else, new cage, different cage location etc
> - What is the temperature of the hedgehogs cage?
> ...


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## HydroThunder (Jan 18, 2011)

I will try to get all that information from her vet who she used to see and respond as quickly as possible


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## Guest (Sep 26, 2011)

HydroThunder said:


> I will try to get all that information from her vet who she used to see and respond as quickly as possible


Most of those you should know they're all just things you should see in your hedgehog


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