# Cat food?



## I Love Hedgy (Jan 3, 2019)

Hi we just bought some EXPENSIVE cat food, wich I would like know if it is the right food for hedgy. Also I bought GIANT mealworms and BIG Dubia Roaches but is the Dubia Roaches to big for her? They are about the size of my index finger. I know the mealworms she can eat cause the vet gave her the ones the same size but im not sur about the Dubia Roaches.






























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## Emc (Nov 18, 2018)

Expense doesn't always reflect quality, and Royal Canin is not known for it's high quality ingredients unfortunately. The quality here is pretty poor; poultry, animal fats, maize flour and rice. I'm not too fussed over the presence of rice (though the best foods are typically grain free), but my main concern is the unspecified animal protein; "poultry" is a pretty blanket term, is it a chicken or a pigeon? Like you have no way of knowing what your animal is eating, so foods containing unspecified ingredients are best avoided.

Not to mention the fat content is insane at 25% (which isnt surprising, because added animal fats are the second ingredient). Generally speaking, you want to stay around 15% fat - active hedgehogs and younger ones can go a little over this, but I (personally) would never go over 20%, and prefer to stay around the 15-18% mark (or lower). I would suggest switching to a higher quality brand; you can find a list of foods recommended here. If you wanted further feedback, you could always pick one and then come back here and we could assess your new diet plan.  As a general rule of thumb; avoid kitten foods (like the one you've picked up); because theyre for kittens, they typically have insanely high fat levels than foods marketed for adults cats.

The dubia roaches dont look insanely large to me; i've given my girl pretty large grasshoppers, and i'm always surprised she manages them - but she does! I'd say offer them and see how your hedgehog manages, but she should be okay.


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## I Love Hedgy (Jan 3, 2019)

Just gave her a Dubia Roach and she LOVED it!!!! She kept looking at me for more, it was so CUTE!!! Ok, im returning the cat food. Can you maybe send me some photos of the cat food I should buy. 

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## Aj.t (Jan 29, 2019)

Hey there! When looking for a dry diet, you should look at the ingredient list and nutritional analysis. Depending on where you live, you may have access to various bands of food, so I generally discourage offering specific brands and limiting you. Look for foods with the first three to five listed as specific real meat ingredients: “chicken” “salmon” “turkey” “meals” etc. ingredients are listed by volume, so the higher up on the list, the more you’ll get of that ingredients. When you are looking at diets, the front of each bag should say if it’s grain free or not. Start with those that are; if you can’t find one to your satisfaction, go to ones with grain. Protein content should be about 30-35% and fat no more than 15-20%. Also look for added fiber!
Hope this helps 🙂


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## I Love Hedgy (Jan 3, 2019)

With all that said...... Is this one ok?
My hedgehog is about a year old now. 









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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

The protein is a bit high. Although from that it seems like theres a lot of wheat and gluten products in there. Although its good its at least got chicken meal first


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

Have a read of this

https://www.hedgehogcentral.com/forums/index.php#/topics/23034

It will help you a lot more with finding a good food.


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## Aj.t (Jan 29, 2019)

Ria said:


> Have a read of this
> 
> https://www.hedgehogcentral.com/forums/index.php#/topics/23034
> 
> It will help you a lot more with finding a good food.


Great thread! I've not found that before, so thanks for sharing it. Though it's lengthy, you (speaking to all reading this) should definitely give it a read even if you're comfortable with diet and nutrition. It's a well rounded 'refresher' for more experienced owners and a GREAT resource for beginners! Thanks Ria!


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

Theres a more advanced one too

https://www.hedgehogcentral.com/forums/index.php#/topics/114530

It goes into more detail, expands more on the first one in a lot of sections.
But you dont have to read it, its useful but a lot more wordy, but its still great to know to watch out for certain things ect.
Have a read through it if you want to, but dont feel like you have to read this one especially if your a beginner.


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## Abby's (Mar 19, 2019)

As long as the cat food is for kittens, it can do the job. Honestly, my cat food was the less expensive, but since it was for kittens, it was the one with more good thing in it (sorry, I forgot the word in english for ''nutriment'' ^^')

As for the worms, I can't really help you that much, I bought hedgedog food and they already have worms in it (dry worms, but still). I saw how big they are, I would say that you should maybe look for her weight a little more than your would suppose to do to make sure they are not to big for the exercice she do.


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## Mecki (Nov 4, 2017)

I found this list to be a great help. It has specific brands and specific lines and formulas of those brands that show which are good for hedgehogs. 
http://www.volcanoviewhedgehogs.com/kibble-list.html


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## Emc (Nov 18, 2018)

Abby's said:


> As long as the cat food is for kittens, it can do the job.


There is no reason to favour kitten food over food marketed for adult cats. Adult cats and kittens have the same nutrient requirements. Kitten food wont have more nutrients than adult cat food and vice versa. The only difference is that (generally speaking) kitten food is of a higher fat content, and is more calorie dense - because it's marketed for young, growing cats. But the difference between adult vs kitten vary amongst brands - some don't have any notable difference at all.

I also want to hit on your last point with regards to mealworms; hedgehogs require a variety of insects, and they should be alive - or if not, canned. Dried insects are best avoided, because they can cause issues with compaction. You can read more about it here. Hedgehog food is also not great for hedgehogs, and I don't believe there's one on the market. They contain a lot of poor quality ingredients (like unspecified meals, corn, and by-products) that are really just best avoided.


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

sorry I just want to add something on the insects to what Emc has said.
You dont heve to feed them live. You can buy them live (some online places also pre gut load them so check that) and gut load them for 24hours if they havent already been, and then put them in your freezer for 24-48 hours then thaw them 15 mins before you give them to your hog.
Also its actually cheaper 9 times out of 10 to buy them live then kill them yourself (in your freezer) than it is to get them dead. 

Dried or freeze-dried should always 100% be avoided, for the reasons Emc has said.


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## I Love Hedgy (Jan 3, 2019)

I bought this.























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## Aj.t (Jan 29, 2019)

The analysis looks alright, though a bit low in protein. As long as you supplement their diet with some high protein tests, that can balance it out. You may consider mixing a couple types of dry diets; this looks like a great amount of fat so you could look for another type that’s higher in protein but lower in fat. This would give your hedgie some options too! Just an idea 🙂 
I don’t see the ingredient list, but if whole meats are listed in the first 1-3 ingredients, it could be a fine beginning diet. I know I switched Christina’s diet a couple of times as I was learning more about their nutritional needs!


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## I Love Hedgy (Jan 3, 2019)

Heres the ingredients.









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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

I think if you mix it with another one with less wheat/corn it should be fine. Make sure its lower in fat around 10% or less to keep your overall fat level down, and try get one with about 30% or a bit higher to get you overall protein a bit higher.
Try get one that has a higher percent of meat too, to out weigh the other ingredients more.

Some foods tell you the overal amount of meat
I'll show you my iams one


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## Aj.t (Jan 29, 2019)

I do like that it’s limited ingredients!


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## I Love Hedgy (Jan 3, 2019)

Ria said:


> I think if you mix it with another one with less wheat/corn it should be fine. Make sure its lower in fat around 10% or less to keep your overall fat level down, and try get one with about 30% or a bit higher to get you overall protein a bit higher.
> Try get one that has a higher percent of meat too, to out weigh the other ingredients more.
> 
> Some foods tell you the overal amount of meat
> I'll show you my iams one


Ok, thank you for the information

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## I Love Hedgy (Jan 3, 2019)

Can I mix it with the first catfood I bought, the picture is the first one I sent. 

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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

The very first one that started this thread:

If you mixed these the overall protein would be 34+29=63/2=31.5%
Overall fat would be 25+13=38/2=19%

For protein it would be great at 31.5% but the fat is very much on the high side at 19%
Also the other ingredients seem to still outweigh the meat content.

The iams I have is okay on its own, although I do have it in a mix


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## Emc (Nov 18, 2018)

Ria gave you the GA of a combined mix assuming you were to do a 50/50 spilt (that is, 50% of IAMS + 50% of the kitten food). But, there are other options you could do to get the fat a little lower;

One such mix would be a 60/40 mix. 60% IAMS, 40% kitten food. It'd give you a GA of 31% protein and 17.8% fat. Although the differences aren't _that_ drastic, I would recommend a 60/40 mix over 50/50, due to the lower fat content.

edit; Additionally you could do 70/30; a mix of 70% IAMS and 30% kitten food would give you 30.5% protein & 16.6% fat. I think out of all the mix options, I would choose that personally.


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

I only know how to work out the 50/50 because of my dyslexia,

But either way whether its a 50/50 60/40 70/30 80/20 mix the other ingredents that arent as good, still ouweight the meat content, and they should have a higher meat content than the rest of the stuff.


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## I Love Hedgy (Jan 3, 2019)

Ok, thanks


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## I Love Hedgy (Jan 3, 2019)

Ria said:


> I only know how to work out the 50/50 because of my dyslexia,
> 
> But either way whether its a 50/50 60/40 70/30 80/20 mix the other ingredents that arent as good, still ouweight the meat content, and they should have a higher meat content than the rest of the stuff.


Oops, i already mixed it

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## Emc (Nov 18, 2018)

Which one is which? Is the IAMS 453g, or is that the royal canIn kitten food?

The ratio/weight matters for calculating the GA, because; 

453g + 653g = 1,106g

453/1,106g x 100% = 41%
653g/1,106g x 100% = 59%

Depending on which food makes up the bulk of this mix, your GA is either 31.95% protein & 20.8% fat or it's 31.5% protein & 17.9% fat. The latter would be the preferred GA, because of the lower fat content. The first wouldn't be the end of the world, it's just on the higher end for fat than most would like... and it'd mean that the bulk of your food is royal canin, which isnt a super quality mix. Again, like I said, not the end of the world though.


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## Aj.t (Jan 29, 2019)

I’m glad you got it all worked out!!!


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## I Love Hedgy (Jan 3, 2019)

Royal canon is 453

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## Emc (Nov 18, 2018)

Ah perfect; so IAMS makes up the bulk of the diet. That mix is fine, it's 59/41, which is fine - it's better than a direct 50/50 split, so don't worry!  The total GA is 31.5% protein & 17.9% fat. You're good to go!


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## I Love Hedgy (Jan 3, 2019)

Ok thanks

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## I Love Hedgy (Jan 3, 2019)

Ria said:


> I think if you mix it with another one with less wheat/corn it should be fine. Make sure its lower in fat around 10% or less to keep your overall fat level down, and try get one with about 30% or a bit higher to get you overall protein a bit higher.
> Try get one that has a higher percent of meat too, to out weigh the other ingredients more.
> 
> Some foods tell you the overal amount of meat
> I'll show you my iams one


I cant seem to find the same package and ingredients. So I went to a BIG pet hyper and found some cat foods I think would be perfect! The first (one) picture is IAMS cat food. The second (three) pictures is Acana DOG FOOD but it seemed OKAY. The third (three) is Bob Martins cat food. Tell me wich is best.




















































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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

The first food - Has great protein and fat. It has a high amount of meat in, and looks about even with the meat and other ingredients


The second food - Has great protein and good fat. It has a high amount of meat, Although I'm not sure about some of the ingredients, pumpkin is safe, but too much can cause runny poos, I know its in a cat food but it can still cause the runny poo, I'm also not sure on the marshmallow root, milk thistle, burdock root, chicory root, turmeric root or rosehips, I cant really tell if they are safe and cant find anything. I know lavender is okay but not really sure about consuming it. 


The third food - The protein and fat is great. I don't like that it's not really named meats, okay yes its got 26% chicken but you don't know what other animals may make it up, also the fact cereals is first isn't too great, and the plant protein, oils and fats is unspecified so you cant really be sure what they have actually used. To me there's a higher risk of this causing upset stomachs with unspecified things because you don't know exactly what has been used to be able to tell every ingredient is safe.


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## Emc (Nov 18, 2018)

The herbs found in the Acana are safe for hedgehogs; many have medicinal properties, and no toxic effects have been reported. Scientific literature is lacking for the toxicity of many of the herbs listed, but they are assumed safe; many people (me included haha) feed Acana to our hedgehogs and no problems have been reported. It's on the recommended food lists too, I believe. The pumpkin should really be of no concern. It's listed after the algae, of which there's only 1.2% - so it's a really, really minuscule amount compared to everything else before it. If the hedgehog suffers diarrhoea from being fed acana, the pumpkin simply being present isn't to blame. 

Out of all the options listed, in order from best to worst; Acana, Science Plan, Bob Martin.

Reason being; the science plan lists the total poultry content of the mix at 48% - but the rest of the ingredients are made up of filler ingredients of poor nutritional value like rice, and corn. 

The Acana, on the other hand, not only has high quality meat ingredients, but the ingredients of non-animal origin are veggies, fruits & herbs vs the corn, wheat, and white rice of the science plan. My only critique is that the one you've found is dog kibble, which may be harder for some hedgehogs to eat. Nevertheless you could break it up, or choose one of their cat food options instead.

The bob martin stuff is... only worth feeding if it's the last thing on earth. Foods containing meat & animal derivatives should be avoided at all costs; i wouldn't waste your money on it.


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