# 7 wk old hedgie died



## jla13 (Apr 14, 2011)

My family and I got a 6 wk old hedgehog 7 days ago and she died last night. I've had hedgehogs in the past as pets and am pretty familiar with them and I noticed within about 36-48 hours of bringing her home that something was wrong. I notified the breeder about it and she assured me that it was probably annointing I was seeing ( I reported bloody stool to her) and that she was probably stressed. She continued to get worse, lethargic, wobbly, eventually refusing to eat of drink. I wrote to the breeder two more times and had decided that I was going to bring her back today, if she made it through the night-which she didn't. The breeder is now insisting on a necropsy (which I can understand fom a business perspective if more time had passed) and I asked her if that could be waived since clearly something was wrong from the time I got her. We paid $175 dollars for her and the necropsy is going to be $150, this seems like poor business practice to me. My children are terribly upset that their little pet died and it happened within 7 days of bringing her home. 
The only thing the breeder mentioned to me when we picked her up was that she was small for her age but soothed my concerns about it by assuring me she would be fine. I'm so frustrated and I don't know what to do. At this point I would just l ike my money back and get a new pet from a different, more reputable breeder. 
  Any thoughts? Is this grounds for reporting the breeder to the USDA (she is licensed)?


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## Immortalia (Jan 24, 2009)

Im so sorry this haapened to you and your family. I would assume that if the necropsy showed that you were not at fault, you should be entitled to a refund from the breeder. I don't think there's much else you can do. But I'm sure someone with more experience in this will pipe in soon. 
What was the temp of her cage? What food? What bedding? 
Why didn't you just take her to the vet when you knew something was wrong? Even with the breeder reassurance, she can't see what you are seeing, so taking to the vet wouldve been more ideal.


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## jla13 (Apr 14, 2011)

I should have taken her to the vet. In the past the hedgehogs that I have had were all older and since she was so young, I took the breeder at her word. She seemed to rebound abit about three days ago but then by Tuesday was looking sluggish again and by Wednesday night I wrote the breeder and told her I would bring her back to her on Thursday but she didn't make it. The room she is kept in is about 70 degrees, however her cage had a heating pad to compensate. I have so much experience with animals and I should have just trusted my gut and taken her in, but by the time I made that decision it was too late. I left it up to the more experience breeder to calm my fears and I shouldn't have. Now I'm worried that I am going to face an up hill battle with this breeder about what to do next.


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## lmashbri6983 (May 29, 2009)

sorry for your loss.  I know that 70 is under the ideal temp of 73-78, that could have had something to do with it although it sounds like there's much more to it than she was just "too cold". (Also tip for future hedgie-keeping, heating pad should only be a supplemental heat, so if the temp in the house/cage is anything below 73 they'll need a heat source, like a CHE or space heater so their whole cage is kept warm enough) Some of the more experienced people here will be able to give much more input, but unfortunately with the story you gave, it doesnt sound like the breeder will try to work with you... I wish you tons of luck, keep us posted and hopefully someone more experienced will be able to help out more!


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## jla13 (Apr 14, 2011)

Thanks for the input. Could low temps be the cause of black tarry stools? That was the first thing that I noticed about her when I first got in touch with the breeder.


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## lmashbri6983 (May 29, 2009)

From my knowledge (and again I"m far from an expert!), no... unless there's something else that I havent learned. I believe black stool can be from internal bleeding though, which is really alarming... I'd try messaging Nancy, she's a really experienced breeder and seems to know hedgies up, down, and sideways! Black tarry stool is a scary sign :shock:, I'm waiting for other *experienced* owners/breeders to comment more on this, but I'll definitely help you bump this thread up cause I think you've got a lot of answers that can be addressed!!


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## PintoPrincess2 (Apr 5, 2011)

How awful! I am very sorry you had such an awful experience. Nancy is great when it comes to hedgie knowledge, she probably would have more feedback for you but I too have never heard of black tarry stool from a temp. issue. I understand what you mean about trusting the breeder though; when I got my first female we called her just to check in for the first few weeks and now that we have babies from that female she still stays in touch as my mentor breeder. So if this were to happen to me I too would probably have trusted their expertise I have a habit of thinking the worst and then talking myself out of things attributing it too my nervous nelly ways. Please keep us updates on what ends up happening. I think I woul go ahead with necropsy since as the person before me said you would probably get a refund if it was proved her fault. Let us know what happens. Good luck.


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## Puffers315 (Apr 19, 2010)

Definitely need the input of Nancy on this, but indeed black tar like stool is a sign of internal bleeding. Is there anyway she could have fallen somewhere in the past 7 days?

I'm sorry for your loss.


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

I am so sorry your baby died. How awful for your children. 

Being retired breeder I see both your side and the breeders and you are kind of between a rock and a hard place. 

Black tarry stools is usually internal bleeding. 

A wee bit of bloody mucous in the stool can be from stress and intestinal irritation but along with the other symptoms and the tarry stool, I'd have huge concerns about the blood and get to the vet which had she come from me, I would have advised. 

As a pet owner, I understand your frustration at buying a pet who dies a week later. To pay $150 for necropsy in order to get another baby seems unfair. I also think the fact that you were in touch with the breeder from the start that she should maybe meet you half way. 

As a breeder I understand her requiring a necropsy to prove baby wasn't injured or neglected. That's standard with most breeders. 

Personally, if it were me, as the pet owner, I'd get the necropsy done just to prove it wasn't anything I did. That would at least be some satisfaction. If you don't, you'd be buying another hedgehog anyways. Hard call though.


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## jla13 (Apr 14, 2011)

Thanks for all the replies. It's hard to imagine how she could have hurt herself since we got her. Her cage is large 4ft x 2 ft, but there is nothing in it that she have fallen off of, I've been very careful to let her keep to her schedule while she acclimated to our house, so I was the only one had held her and that was primarily in the evening while I was lounging around and just let her crawl all over me to get used to me. The other thing, is the black stool happened from the time we got her. The breeder sent her home with a little hedgie sleeping bag and the next night I picked it up and noticed it inside of the sack, so as far as I can see she had it from the time we brought her home. She actually acted ok the first couple of days (other than the black tarry stool), got a little lethargic one day but perked back up the next day. It was the last 36 -48 hours that she just progressively got worse. In the meantime after that primary email I sent to the breeder about the stool, and in which she told me it was probably annointing due to the food coloring in the food (I was feeding her the breeder provided food until she was settled , then planned on switching her over slowly to blue buffalo- I do not like a lot cat foods with fillers and colorings). I had sent her another email about her starting to get lethargic, asked what I should do since she knew more than me and she emailed me back with several questions and asked me to get back to her "ASAP" with the answers, which I did. 
During this time, (the last day before she died) I waited and checked my email several times and eventually sent her another one saying that I was really worried about her and that I was going to drive her back up to he (the breeder) so she can take her back and perhaps nurse her back to health. I put all my trust in the breeder, and because I am definitely a worrier I was (mistakenly) relying on her to lead me in the right direction. Never once had she told me to take her to the vet, which I should have done on my own anyway. I'm waiting to hear back from her now regarding the $150 necropsy. While I am confident that it was nothing I did, to pay $150 for a necropsy for a $175 refund just doesn't make sense to me. If she tells me that she will refund the entire $325 then I will go ahead with it, of even meets me halfway.
I'm just shocked about the lack of support and communication she has given me, especially considering that her claims of 24 hr lifetime support was one of the reasons I decided to go with her in the first place.


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## jla13 (Apr 14, 2011)

I do completely understand the standard practice of necropsy, especially if it's 8 months later and a person wan'ts to claim it's a congenital defect. But 7 days? And on top of that, I notified her within 36 hours about the stool and she told me it was probably the food coloring in the food she provided? It's just so disheartening. My kids are so young and just want their pet back and I am sitting here trying to jump through hoops and I'm getting the runaround with the breeder. It's been several hours since the last time she emailed and she only replied with her requirement of the necropsy, now won't respond back with any details. I am only asking if the cost of the necropsy is refunded as well, in whole o part, because her contact is vague and she won't get back to me. In the meantime my poor little hedgie is wrapped up in a towel sitting in a box while I wait.


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## MissC (Nov 15, 2010)

I have nothing helpful to add...I just wanted to say how sorry I am that this happened to her and you and your kids. I think Nancy's advice is sound and if paying for the procedure 'buys' you peace of mind, it'll be money well spent. There is no good answer here, tho'.


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## LarryT (May 12, 2009)

Most breeders will not refund any vet bills,most will make you sign a contract stating so. Did you sign any kind of agreement?


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## jla13 (Apr 14, 2011)

The agreement I signed just states "proof of either pre-existing condition or congenital defects by a veterinarian is required" which is actually kind of vague. For WHS proof is states necropsy is required.


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

Is the body in the fridge? If not and baby died last night, it is probably already to late for a necropsy. There is a very short window of time to have one done and the body is supposed to be kept in the fridge (NOT freezer) wrapped in paper towel in a paper bag until delivery to the vet. If are thinking at all of getting a necropsy done, she needs to be at the vet now or it will be too late.


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## jla13 (Apr 14, 2011)

She's in a paper bag and on my porch (it's 42 degrees today and overcast)


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## leopardhedgehog (Nov 18, 2010)

That's horrible, to buy a hedgehog and have it die, through no fault of your own, just a week later. May I ask who this breeder was? I'd like to know who this breeder is, so I don't buy from one that isn't reputable.


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## jla13 (Apr 14, 2011)

So, I may not be a vet, but in preparation for a graduate nursing program I have taken many, many anatomy and biology classes and have a pretty firm grasp on one thing- It seems to me that, however it happened prior to us getting her, she suffered from some type of internal injury that ended up killing her. I spoke to the vet's office and they also told me that with that type of injury it would be very difficult to pinpoint exactly when it happened. I think what I am going to do is just write an email to the breeder and explain to her under the circumstances, if she would be willing to part ways under good terms and perhaps refund our money, or atleast a portion of it. I feel like she is relying on the fact that I would not spend that money to do the necropsy and honestly to risk $150 (that is non-refundable anyway) on a necropsy that will probably come back inconclusive (and at the very least not be able to put a time frame on the incident) I don't feel comfortable doing that. I just hope that she is understanding and really in the business to provide healthy, happy pets to families. If not, are there any agencies I can report her to? Does the USDA have a reporting policy for their licensed breeders? Thanks!


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## Hedgieonboard (Nov 15, 2009)

I am so sorry for your loss and what you and your family must be going through  It is a really hard situation.


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## jla13 (Apr 14, 2011)

The breeder has completely denied any responsibility and in fact blames me for her death either by causing a rupture through force feeding or my children dropped her. I have contacted the Better Business Bureau and am filing a complaint against her. I asked her for her veterinarians information for the necropsy, she never gave it to me and instead decided to get ugly about the situation. Something fishy is up I feel.


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## lmashbri6983 (May 29, 2009)

Best of luck to you! Hopefully it doesnt get too ugly.


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