# Cross Border Move with a Hedgie



## artistshrugged

Hi Everyone,

I am currently living in Toronto with my hedgehog Reggie. I am here for an art program, and the program has not been living up to its expectations. I may be leaving the program, which would invalidate my student visa. So, I am currently looking into moving to Manchester, NH. Obviously, Reggie would be coming with me. The move is an approximate 10 hour drive, and there is potential for an overnight stay in a hotel. 

I know several things from researching, so I will share my current plans here. Reggie will be in a hard sided carrier that will be buckled into a seat in my car. The car will be heated, and I will probably have some sort of heat in the carrier with him (please leave recommendations in the comments, links would be helpful). The move is tentatively planned for late October or mid November, so I assume that the car will be heated relatively close to optimal temperate with little fluctuation. He will have fleece and a hiding spot within the carrier as well. 

I have already looked into legality of hedgehogs in NH, and am only considering pet friendly apartments. His current heating system (a CHE) would also be transported and set up, and he would be kept on his same routine upon arrival. I also have a several month supply of his current food so he would be kept on that. 

Since the move will be across the Canada and US border I'd like to hear about people's experiences with that. He would be travelling as a pet, and currently has no vet records. Should I get him a clean bill of health before crossing? How much can I expect to pay in duty, if any?

Do people have suggestions regarding overnights in hotels? Should I try my best to avoid that, or would Reggie be okay?

I am in the early planning stages of my move, so I may not have answers to all questions (feel free to ask anyway!). I would love some feedback to ensure that this move goes well for both of us. I am going to miss Toronto.


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## Nancy

The best thing to do is phone customs at the border crossing you will be crossing at. Because he is your pet and you aren't purchasing him, you won't pay duty. The most they might ask for is that he is examined by the border vet and usually there is a minor charge for that. Coming from US to Canada the vet charges $35 I believe. Whomever you speak with, get their name so if at the border if they try telling you something different, you can quote whomever it was. Because you are driving, they will most likely just wave you through and won't require anything for him to cross. It wouldn't hurt to keep his bill of sale ready to show to prove he is your pet and you didn't just purchase him. 

In a hotel room you want him in something that is 100% escape proof. Unless his cage is escape proof he would be better off staying in the carrier overnight. Of course that depends on the carrier that it can't be escaped from. If he is in the carrier, a heating pad underneath or even mitten warmers would do to keep him warm enough for one night. Depending on the size of the carrier and the type of wheel he has, the wheel might even fit in the carrier. I have one of the larger cat carriers for our larger cat and a bucket wheel fits in it no problem. 

It would probably be best to take him for a few car rides prior to your trip. That way he will get used to the vehicle and also you will find out if he tolerates being in the car well. I've had a couple that puked non stop from the minute the car started to move until it stopped. Others are fine. 

Take some of your water with you so you don't have to do a sudden water change. Water changes can affect them as much as food changes something.


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## moxieberry

For going across the border, it can come down to how lucky you are with the border agent. I know people have brought hedgehogs into the US with only needing a vet certificate of health, but technically there's a (seemingly outdated) regulation about the "importation" of hedgehogs and tenrecs. We brought two babies across from BC into Washington state and I had researched pretty thoroughly, and people's past experiences and everything I could find online suggested that hedgehogs fall under the category of "other small animals" in regards to not having any specific regulations. We got a vet certificate just to be safe, but when we got to the border, our border agent had no idea what hedgehogs are - so he called a vet at a nearby crossing, who said that hedgehogs require a permit. Well, as it turns out, technically they do - we found the specific regulation, which pretty much seems to apply to commercial importation; it references other countries (like New Zealand) in regards to the risk of foot-and-mouth disease. We managed to convince the guys at the border that it really wasn't applicable to us bringing them across as pets from Canada, and we were able to get through, but after that we're going to be getting the permit from now on for any border crossings just to avoid the hassle. It really seems like if we had gotten a border agent who was familiar with hedgehogs as a small domestic pet, we would have just been waved through.

I don't have the exact info on hand (it's buried in a stack of papers I need to sort through) but if you call a border crossing directly you can probably get pointed to it. Or, I'd be happy to PM you a little later, since I need to dig it up sometime this week anyway to prepare for bringing two more babies across in October. I don't know what (if any) fee goes along with it, but I know that the permit is good for a month, and I'm pretty sure there's a way to just apply for it online.


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## artistshrugged

Nancy said:


> It would probably be best to take him for a few car rides prior to your trip. That way he will get used to the vehicle and also you will find out if he tolerates being in the car well. I've had a couple that puked non stop from the minute the car started to move until it stopped. Others are fine.
> 
> Take some of your water with you so you don't have to do a sudden water change. Water changes can affect them as much as food changes something.


He has been in several car rides in the last few weeks and has tolerated them really well! They were short, only about 45 minutes, but he slept through all of them.

The water is a great suggestion! I am not sure I would have remembered that, but I would hate to have him get an upset tummy from water in a new place.



moxieberry said:


> I don't have the exact info on hand (it's buried in a stack of papers I need to sort through) but if you call a border crossing directly you can probably get pointed to it. Or, I'd be happy to PM you a little later, since I need to dig it up sometime this week anyway to prepare for bringing two more babies across in October. I don't know what (if any) fee goes along with it, but I know that the permit is good for a month, and I'm pretty sure there's a way to just apply for it online.


I would love to get any info you have. When crossing the border into Canada I found it was much better to be overprepared rather than under. I do still plan on calling the border before I travel, but I do know that a lot is up to the discretion of the border agent so having extra paperwork (a permit) couldn't hurt.

As a final question, does this look like a good carrier? I would love input on sizes too. It appears to be available in Canada, and it buckles into the seat. If not, are there other ones people can find that are reasonably priced and near Toronto?

http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.j ... Id=3086604


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## moxieberry

Found it! We're still figuring out the online option for submitting the permit, but this is the info that we got from the guy at the border for getting more specific info. (I'm just copying off of a notecard he scribbled it on for us.)

Washington DC (APHIS)
301-851-3300 Option 5

and

Vet-In-Charge USDA (WA/OR/AK)
360-753-9430

Obviously that vet-in-charge number doesn't apply to your area, but they'd probably have the number for the NY one, or you should be able to get that by calling the one of the border crossing stations in your general area. There might be a specific crossing location that you'll have to use. Sorry I don't have all the details, but hope this helps!


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## artistshrugged

Thank you so much moxieberry! It can be so hard to find out this information from the websites, so this just saved me a ton of time and a headache!


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## Nancy

Four years ago when I was researching a baby going from me in Ontario to a couple in NY state, I found the regulations differed depending on which state it was going to and which province it was coming from. Totally made no sense what so ever to me, but that's the way it was back then. Also, animals going as pets were in a different class than those going as breeding. Breeding required paper work. It's still best to check with the actual border crossing you will be using. My little one was a pet and all my owners had to show was her bill of sale.


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## hedgielover

Sorry to hear your program isn't going well. I have the carrier you linked to for my cat, it's been really good so far, very sturdy. I don't think a hedgehog could escape from it but you may want to measure the little holes on the side and the bars of the door. There is a maximum recommended width for spaces somewhere on here I think it may be 1", any bigger and a hedgehog could escape. If you want to fit the wheel in the carrier you could take the wheel with you to the pet store and test it out. That way you'd know for sure that it is a good size to fit the wheel. That being said you don't want it too big because it would not be as cozy and not as safe.


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## artistshrugged

Nancy said:


> Four years ago when I was researching a baby going from me in Ontario to a couple in NY state, I found the regulations differed depending on which state it was going to and which province it was coming from. Totally made no sense what so ever to me, but that's the way it was back then. Also, animals going as pets were in a different class than those going as breeding. Breeding required paper work. It's still best to check with the actual border crossing you will be using. My little one was a pet and all my owners had to show was her bill of sale.


I definitely intend on calling the border I will be using. I know that some of the regulations are quite strange, and so having a point of contact with a specific border agent is always better. I know most border agents are quite good about letting pets through as long as they appear healthy, but I do know that some agents are unfamiliar with hedgehogs and thats when things could get difficult.



hedgielover said:


> Sorry to hear your program isn't going well. I have the carrier you linked to for my cat, it's been really good so far, very sturdy. I don't think a hedgehog could escape from it but you may want to measure the little holes on the side and the bars of the door. There is a maximum recommended width for spaces somewhere on here I think it may be 1", any bigger and a hedgehog could escape. If you want to fit the wheel in the carrier you could take the wheel with you to the pet store and test it out. That way you'd know for sure that it is a good size to fit the wheel. That being said you don't want it too big because it would not be as cozy and not as safe.


I'm really upset the program isn't what I wanted. But it seems to be for the best because I can't work while in Canada (visa regulations are sooo strict) and my money seems to be evaporating up here!! 
I don't think I will be putting his wheel in the carrier because his cage is actually rather easy to travel with, very escape proof, and easy to put together. It's actually a bit on the small side but he has had it since he was a baby and I am putting off any big changes in his life until he and I are both settled somewhere. He was a rescue so I didn't want to put him in a new place AND a new cage. 
Thank you for your opinion on the carrier though! I will check out the size of the holes before I purchase anything.


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