# Depressed Hedgie?



## kris_jprice (Jun 16, 2010)

So Koosh is an awesome little guy! We love him so much. A week ago we had a routine in that we would fall asleep and the minute we got settled in bed and tried to go to sleep he would start rummaging around and wheeling it up and crunching loudly and happily on food. But this week things changed a little. We got him the Carolina Storm Wheel. We didn't put the litter pan underneath because he had trouble climbing up. That night and the following two nights we slept a fe houses down the street at my girlfriend's house. Each of the two mornings I came back to my place, I noticed his new wheel was still unsoiled. This was telling me that he wasn't wheeling. I kept putting him on the wheel to let him know that it was there. I figured he couldn't climb into it, so I put a thn book as a step for him and went to sleep at my girlfriend's again. 

Yesterday morning I noticed that he hasn't been eating as much. So last night, we slept back at my place so we could monitor him. I didn't hear much sound at all last night. I did wake up around 4:30 and picked him up and put him on his wheel. Once on it, he ran his heart out. This morning however, still very little food had been eaten. But last night before bed, I noticed that there was a fresh present left on his wheel along with signs that he's been drinking. This morning I had him in my bed with me while surfing the internet and I gave him two mealies he promptly inhaled.

Should I worry about the little guy? I'm probably going to find like a kids triangle wooden block to use as a ramp to his wheel, but I''m concerned about his eating. Should I wet his food a little to soften it up?

He doesn't have too much room to move around right now, but I plan on moving to a new place in January and he'll definitely have more romping room.


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## PJM (May 7, 2010)

My girl Zoey will run & run on the wheel & I never knew, because she never left a mess. It wasn't until we put an odometer on the wheel that we realized how much she was actually running. It turns out that she's just a clean little girl & doesn't poop much on her wheel. 

Our boy Cholla is usually a little pig & will leave all kinds of evidence that he's been running. But lately, he too has left a clean wheel. I don't know why. But I know that he's been running only because of the odometer. 

So I would say not to worry too much yet if you don't see "presents" on the wheel. Especially since it's new. One thing I did before we had the odometers was to put a little bit of flour in the wheel. That way you could see if he used it or not.


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## LarryT (May 12, 2009)

Does your CSW not have 6 height adjustments? You need to put the wheel on the lowest height adjustment if your hog is having trouble climbing aboard. On the lowest height setting the wheel is nearly on the ground.


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## kris_jprice (Jun 16, 2010)

Oh man, I did not realize it had 6 height adjustments! I will experiment with this tonight and see if it helps! Thanks!

But what about the food? Should I soften it up with water?


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## PJM (May 7, 2010)

You don't have to soften the food with water - I would recomend giving him a couple of choices. Give him some regular meal & then give him some softened meal in a separate area. Then you will know which one he likes better. But honestly, unless he is ill or has bad teeth or is older, the regular meal will be fine.


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## Puffers315 (Apr 19, 2010)

kris_jprice said:


> Oh man, I did not realize it had 6 height adjustments! I will experiment with this tonight and see if it helps! Thanks!


Besides the height adjustment on it, you can also adjust the tilt of the wheel. The pipes that make the base up are just pushed together, not glued. So you can push the upright one that holds the wheel backwards and tilt the wheel back. Straight up and down I think the wheel has a good tilt out, I know both of mine are tilted back enough to make the running surface level, and if they're a big hog (Hester is 620 grams now) it usually will tilt down a little, enough that pee and poop tend to come off it. But the tilt downwards might deter him a little since its not like his old wheel.


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## HedgeMom (Nov 7, 2008)

A hedgehog that is not eating and not as active as normal is a hedgehog who needs to see a vet. Getting advice on adjusting a wheel is not going to affect the hedgehog's anorexia and lethargy. These are two subtle warning signs that should never be ignored. 

Your hedgehog may be getting chilled, may not have enough light, may be developing an URI or a UTI (especially with decreased drinking) or may be attempting to hibernate. 

I am VERY surprised that the two experienced people who answered you zeroed in on the wheel and not the scary symptoms the hedgehog has. 

Get a vet appointment.


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## Puffers315 (Apr 19, 2010)

(Removed by Puffers315).


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## LarryT (May 12, 2009)

HedgeMom said:


> I am VERY surprised that the two experienced people who answered you zeroed in on the wheel and not the scary symptoms the hedgehog has.


I'm not a vet and usually avoid answering health questions, that's why we have EXPERTS like you who know everything.


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## shaelikestaquitos (Feb 2, 2010)

HedgeMom said:


> A hedgehog that is not eating and not as active as normal is a hedgehog who needs to see a vet. Getting advice on adjusting a wheel is not going to affect the hedgehog's anorexia and lethargy. These are two subtle warning signs that should never be ignored.
> 
> Your hedgehog may be getting chilled, may not have enough light, may be developing an URI or a UTI (especially with decreased drinking) or may be attempting to hibernate.
> 
> ...


HedgeMom, I don't mean to start an argument or anything, but you seem very critical of everyone who posts on this forum.

You make a good point that not eating, etc are warning signs that shouldn't be ignored... but is it really necessary for you to be so critical?

I understand that the animal's life is at risk here... but you know, it's nice for people to be polite to each other, especially when everyone is just trying to help >_>"

Also, the poster mentioned that they are eating some things, like mealworms... so maybe Larry and Puffers just assumed that it wasn't a health issue?

Now, to the OP,
Have you tried giving Koosh his kibbles as a "treat" while you have him out for play time? Will he eat it?

I don't know if that's a sure sign that he is not having health issues, but it may indicate that he is still willing to eat, which is always a good sign.

Also, I think wetting his food might be a good idea, like you suggested. Maybe he just finds them too hard to eat now?


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## Hedgieonboard (Nov 15, 2009)

HedgeMom said:


> A hedgehog that is not eating and not as active as normal is a hedgehog who needs to see a vet. Getting advice on adjusting a wheel is not going to affect the hedgehog's anorexia and lethargy. These are two subtle warning signs that should never be ignored.
> 
> Your hedgehog may be getting chilled, may not have enough light, may be developing an URI or a UTI (especially with decreased drinking) or may be attempting to hibernate.
> 
> ...


Whether it was intended to or not that came off as extremely rude. Not everyone is going to answer a question in the same manner you would and that's why its great that you can come onto the forums because other members can add in on something that may have been missed or another idea they came up with. I think its great to add in helpful information but it is extremely upsetting when someone feels the need to critize in such a manner.


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## Puffers315 (Apr 19, 2010)

@kris_jprice: Hedgemom and others are right about the decrease in activity and appetite. The fact you had him on the wheel and running for at least a few minutes shows that he knows its a wheel, and a determined hedgehog is probably going to find a way to get on that wheel even if its too high, but I would definitely put it on a lower setting, but if he doesn't eat any better this evening, get him to a vet.

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And Hedgemom, if you consider me an experienced member of this forum in the form of hedgehog ownership, please take me off that list. Yes I post a lot and reply to many people's questions, but I'm more or less just parroting what I have read, learned and researched by reading these forums front to back. Most questions that get asked have been answered, but the search engine on here doesn't always find them. I post a lot mainly because I'm at my computer off and on all day long, I got nothing else to do, so I try to be helpful. And if you're not talking about me, oh well, stated my purpose, and yeah, rude, and that's coming from 15 years of experience in helping people online.


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## susanaproenca (Aug 14, 2010)

kris_jprice: how long have you had Koosh for? Did you change his food at all? Maybe the kibble is too big for him? Maybe you can try some crushed kibble until your vet's appointment (if you decide to take him for one.) 

Is there any new light in the room, or did you change the curtains, allowing more light to come in? Some hedgies need a completely dark cage to be active during the night.


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## kris_jprice (Jun 16, 2010)

Sorry I haven't gotten back (it was Halloween after all ). 

@shelikestaquitos: We've tried giving him his kibble as a treat before, but he hasn't taken it as a treat pretty much since we brought him home (and gave him mealworms). I figured it was kind of like a dog thing, where you try to give them a kibble, then they look at you like "Are you serious? Where's the steak!?" and walk off.

@susanproenca: We've had Koosh about 6 or 7 months now and he's been on the same kibble for about 3 (Taste of the Wild mixed 50/50 with Chicken Soup for the Senior Cat Lover's Soul). I haven't had a light in there the past week or so, so I'll try that today and see if that works.

@Puffers315: As soon as I found out there are height adjustments, I fixed it. I will have to see about tilt adjustments tonight though.

We are monitoring him to see if he tries to hibernate. He's got a thermometer in his cage that I check several times a day. I will try giving him a separate portion of wet food to see if that helps

I will keep you guys posted on what's up.


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

While I agree, the delivery could have been nicer, Hedgemom is dead on right in everything she has said. I'm going to be rude here too because all of you that have replied have been active members of this forum long enough that a bit of basic knowledge should have rubbed off. The very first thing that should be mentioned whenever a hedgehog is showing decreased activity and eating is temperature.

According to her previous posts, she has had him for 5 months and almost a month ago, he was having lethargy issues then as well and here is my reply on October 4.



Nancy said:


> If you do not have an accurate digital thermometer, you cannot say with certainty that his cage is "def above 73". It also looks like his cage is on the floor. If so, move it up on a dresser or something higher. The floor is the coldest part of a room and can be numerous degrees cooler than up higher.
> 
> It sounds to me like he is either too cool or he is sick. Get a thermometer and see what temperature his cage is at. Whatever it is at, raise the temperature a couple of degrees. Not all hedgehogs are fine at 73 or 75. Some need it really warm as in 77 or 78.
> 
> ...


Assuming he was given a warmer cage with more light and is again having issues, now he needs to see a vet.

Everyone is getting up in arms over the way Hedgemom replied and making it a bigger issue than the possibly sick hedgehog. Everyone who has been around the forums for any length of time knows that Hedgemom speaks her mind and tells it like it is. She has butted heads with many people over the years including myself numerous times. :lol: This is her way and will probably never change. Regardless, she is one of the most knowledgeable people there is and many people, including experienced people ask her advice.

I read frustration in her post which is often the case when she replies. Given this hedgehogs history, focusing on the wheel rather than the real issue, could be life threatening for this hedgehog.


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## Kalandra (Aug 25, 2008)

Come on guys, you know Hedgemom is blunt when she speaks her mind, but you should also know that she is right in this case. You don't have to be a veterinarian to give basic health advice. If you read this forum you should pick up some basics of when to seek a vet, and when to ask about temperature and lighting. Especially this time of year.

Assuming the temperature and lighting issues were fixed, its time to seek veterinary attention. 

If he was eating hard food before, he should still be eating hard food. How old is this hedgehog? If he is a senior, perhaps his teeth are worn and the inactivity is due to arthirtis, again I'd take him in to have a diagnosis made.

How old is the kibble? Is it nearing its expiration date? Kibble can become old and stale, making it not taste right to the hedgehog. Which can be fixed by simply purchasing a fresh bag of kibble.

I do not consider a hedgehog to be eating if they will only eat mealworms (or some other favorite treat). Hedgehogs will often go off their food and still eat a mealworm. Once they go off the mealworms too, you usually have a very sick hedgehog on your hands.


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## PJM (May 7, 2010)

I suppose tough love is still love.
I'm a bit ashamed of myself. 
I will try to do better.


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## LarryT (May 12, 2009)

I'm so sorrry for focusing in on a wheel that I sold the OP. The OP was having issues with said wheel and being a concerned/considerate business man I felt it to be my duty to try and resolve that problem ASAP. I should have taken the time to read the whole post and even read all the other post the OP has made since becoming a member to better help with the OP's needs.


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## Immortalia (Jan 24, 2009)

Just to add...

If you haven't already, get some canned Hills A/D and a syringe, either from vet or from pharmacy(just ask the pharmacy people and they'll give you one free). If you don't get him eating, he WILL develop Fatty Liver Disease, and that will just make the entire process even worse. So if you notice him not eating at all, you must start making him eat.


To put things to an emotional perspective...
My cat started going off his food on the 18th. We thought... ok... perhaps he's being picky, so we started giving him different canned foods, and even tuna. He ate that for awhile, then on the 24th, he was really off his food and not wanting to eat the canned either, so we bought him kitten milk and he was willing to drink that. So on the 25th, he was rushed to the vets, was ferried back and forth between normal vet and emergency vet for 4 days. I made the decision to put him down on the 28th. 

So in general, all animals can deteriorate very quickly, and because they can't tell us what is wrong, we have to be perceptive of how they are acting. The outcome probably would have been the same even if I brought him to the vet sooner, but it's still something I still blame myself for. But I didn't think things were too serious because he was still eating TREATS. He was still at the table begging for scraps and eating it.

So lesson learned, anytime a pet is off their food, it is not something to just wave off. They may act fine, but it could be something serious. 

Anyways, definitely stock up on the hills A/D just as a precaution. It's better to be over-prepared, than under-prepared.
Sorry for my emotional rambling, but just the "not eating yet not thinking too much of it" has hit too close to home.


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## lmg_319 (Oct 4, 2010)

What does the A/D stand for?


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## Immortalia (Jan 24, 2009)

lmg_319 said:


> What does the A/D stand for?


It's the "emergency, critical care" food. Food that is usually fed during illness, post surgery/injuries. It's also easily syringe-able.


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## kris_jprice (Jun 16, 2010)

UPDATE:

Koosh seems to be just fine. We've slept at my place the last couple of nights to monitor him and he seems to be fine. Last night he ate a good amount of his kibbles and he's got a nice brown streak in his wheel (haha).

I increased the heat in his room and simply took him out to give him some TLC for the past few nights. Ever since, he's just given me dirty looks and even dirtier presents.

The CSW is a great wheel so far. I think I heard it wobble last night, but itcould've been rocking against the side of the cage. A few quick mods and things will be perfect!


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