# Reporting a pet store - where to start?



## NoDivision (Aug 29, 2010)

This is only off topic because this store, thank god, has no hedgehogs. But there are almost no words for how angry I am right now...

So I needed to get some Chicken Soup, and the store locator told me the closest store that carries it is this place called Uncle Bill's. I've heard it isn't a great store and buys from puppy mills so I have never gone there before, but I really needed some new catfood, so I gave it a shot...

In the end they didn't even have the cat food, but it doesn't matter, because I would NEVER have bought it. Oh my god. Seriously guys, I have never been so disgusted, and I have seen some bad pet stores. I wish I had taken pictures... not sure where to even start. Let's start with a tour walking in...

So the first thing you come to are some small animal tanks - in the first set are ferrets and rabbits. These are glass tanks divided into 4 sections - each section is probably about 2 feet square, maybe a bit smaller. Three sections had rabbits - about 6-7 rabbits in each. One had ferrets - I think I counted 4 ferrets piled up in the middle of the tank, and all around the edges were PILES of feces. Like HUGE piles. 

Next back is another one of these divided tanks with guinea pigs and chinchillas. I think it was the same, about 6-8 guineas in each tiny section. Only 2 chinchillas but they had no enrichment and again, filthy. 

Then you get to the puppies. Oh my god, you guys. So the puppies are in big wire cages - they are the kind with the raised wire bottom that has newspaper under in since the puppies aren't potty trained. So the puppies are on a rained wire floor, and each of them has a TINY scrap of fabric, about the size of piece of paper, and that is the ONLY thing in the cage. So these puppies are all trying to cram their bodies onto these tiny scraps for comfort. The cages have water bottles fixed to them - no sign of food.

Then you get to the kittens. The kittens live a marginally better life. They at least either have a fabric covered shelf to sit on, or a fleece cat hammock. But they have dirty eyes and are clearly DESPERATE for attention. They all cry pathetically when you approach and reach their paws out through the bars, and try to grab at you. 

Further back there are birds - overcrowded in small cages - and other small animals like hamsters, mice, gerbils - overcrowded in small tanks. And when I say overcrowded I mean like 20-30 hamsters in a 10 gallon tank. And some tanks labeled as having sugar gliders, but I didn't see any. 

I spent longer in there than I wanted to - but at the same time I didn't want to leave. I spent a long time standing by the kitten cages, petting them, talking to them, letting them reach out and paw at me. I didn't have enough attention to give them all - they really do REACH for you and plead for love, they are so sad and desperate - I had to fight not to cry.



I have a hard time believing that this store has not been reported before, but I need to do something. I don't know where to start, though. So I thought I'd ask you guys. I'm in the US, Indiana specifically, and I don't know who should try to contact.


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## pearlthehedgie (Feb 15, 2011)

I know someone who is a strong animal advocate and is involved in rescues, shutting down puppy mills, etc. I'll ask her and post a response.... Sounds terrible and someone needs to do something.


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## MissC (Nov 15, 2010)

Where are you from or where is the store located, nodivision? State/Province?


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## pearlthehedgie (Feb 15, 2011)

She said to contact the Indiana Dept of Agriculture and they can direct you who you need to talk to in order to get an inspector to go out there. :twisted: :x :evil:


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## NoDivision (Aug 29, 2010)

Thank you, Pearl, that gives me a place to start. (I'm not originally from this state so I don't really know which departments do what.)

Edit: starting from the state government website and working my way down, I'm told that the state does not regulate pet stores, but there may be local laws through the city/county health department. But the county health department lists nothing of the sort. I've been directed to contact local law enforcement, but am at another loss there... animal control maybe? :\


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## MissC (Nov 15, 2010)

Up here,in Canada, I would contact the Municipal Gov't and the SPCA.


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## NoDivision (Aug 29, 2010)

I managed to find the best place to report his - local animal control. I'm not really concerned about the health department guidelines, though I'm certain the store is breaking them - this is more an animal welfare issue. So I have reported the store for animal abuse and neglect. I can check the status of my report online - I hope something comes of it!


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

I remember reading that stores need a USDA license in order to sell certain exotic animals (including hedgehogs, I think?) to the public, so I went searching on the USDA website. I found this http://awic.nal.usda.gov/nal_display/in ... aqs_id=123

I'm not sure if sugar gliders (though you said you didn't see any), ferrets, or chinchillas are considered to be exotic animals and require a license to sell, but if you can check into that, you could probably get the USDA to inspect the store based on the exotic animals, whether they have a license or not. If that doesn't work, perhaps you could search for and contact a BBB in your area as suggested. Just more suggestions for ways to help the poor animals in this store...I started raging as soon as I got to the bit about 6-7 rabbits in a 2-foot-square cage. :evil: :evil: :evil:


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## morgan (Mar 29, 2011)

That is horrible, hopefully someone can shut them down. :evil: 
I was starting to tear up when you said the bit about the kittens, I can't imagine what it'd be like being there...  
It horrifies me when animals are treated poorly in stores, you'd think someone would have a bit of compassion seeing how they're in the pet business.


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## Judi (Jul 9, 2009)

Post in the Pets section of your local Craigslist, describing what you saw and asking where you should report it. Lots of animal lovers in the pets section of CL...someone will know what to do.


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## megan4032 (Dec 10, 2010)

First off, that pet store sounds terrible. I would contact your local animal shelter and see if they have any advice. They could probably take the animals if you told them about the situation. Best of luck.


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## Needlenose (Sep 17, 2010)

My first suggestion would be to talk to the shop owners or employees. You honestly would not believe how many people just start up a pet store with out knowing what they're getting into. Figure out if it's a family owned shop, or if they are corporate. But from the sound of it, it's probably family owned. In that case, explain to them what the problems are. Stay level headed. Can't stress that enough.  Before you leave let them know you look forward to seeing it in better shape the next time you visit. If you come back and there is no change, tell them you understand they are pressed for time, or help or what ever blah blah blah they gave you but that these animals need proper care and that you'd hate to get the local animal control involved. If you visit again and there is still no change, call your local animal control, humane society or rescue groups. If that does not work, your best last resort is usually the local tv stations. Once word gets out on that, cleaning up won't matter much, they'll be out of business. :roll:


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## NoDivision (Aug 29, 2010)

It's not a small family owned pet store - it's part of a local chain that has been around for a really long time. It's a really well known pet store, which is what makes me even more disgusted.


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## TeddysMommy (Apr 24, 2011)

That is absolutely sickening! I would tell them that that is animal abuse and neglect. Ask a clerk or cashier to see the manager and owner of the store and demand that the animals are actually ABUSED! If you need to go on the website of it (because u said its corporate) and file a complaint and find the number/hotline and do the same. If nothing happens you must contact the ASPCA, local animal control and the SPCA. By the looks of it you could also contact the local police which u said you did. Oh also they ARE breaking health laws so also contact the Indiana State Dept. of Health because im pretty sure thats where you said you are IF there is still no action being done.
I wish you the best of luck on your "mission" to help those animals in the petshop!


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## Sar-uh (Sep 6, 2011)

Did you ever get anywhere with reporting Uncle Bill's? I've been in there before to buy crickets, and like you, was heartbroken for the poor animals. Very cramped conditions, and the cats's ears were all flea-bitten.


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## NoDivision (Aug 29, 2010)

*sigh* No. I reported them to several city agencies and the first told me they couldn't do anything, the second said they'd "look into it" but of course never did anything.


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## Christemo (Oct 5, 2011)

Talk to the ASPCA. I went to them about a "breeder" who posted here a while ago and things they were saying just didn't equal out and they went out to look at it.


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## ktdid (Aug 7, 2012)

Needlenose said:


> your best last resort is usually the local tv stations. Once word gets out on that, cleaning up won't matter much, they'll be out of business. :roll:


I agree with this wholeheartedly. Call the news stations.


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## Sar-uh (Sep 6, 2011)

ktdid said:


> Needlenose said:
> 
> 
> > your best last resort is usually the local tv stations. Once word gets out on that, cleaning up won't matter much, they'll be out of business. :roll:
> ...


Uncle Bill's has already been in the news for using puppy mills:

http://www.petshoppuppies.org/indiana/13.htm

NoDivision, you may want to check out that website. They have an active campaign in Indiana against pet stores.


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## danilious (Dec 14, 2010)

i know uncle bills has heddgehogs at the one i go to for mealies. i just hate that they usto have girls and boy in the same cages but know they keep them seperated and they dont even have a wheel or anything for them to use


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## NoDivision (Aug 29, 2010)

god I'm glad they didn't have hedgehogs at the one I was at when I went there - I would have lost it!


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## danilious (Dec 14, 2010)

i know i just want to take them all home with me its so sad


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## danilious (Dec 14, 2010)

i planned on getting this really stinking cute baby boy they have tho


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

danilious said:


> i planned on getting this really stinking cute baby boy they have tho


I'm a little confused. Are you still planning to get another hedgehog, or was this something you thought about and are no longer doing? I was just curious because you've posted twice recently about having to rehome hedgehogs because they're taking too much time to clean or to socialize.


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## connorshogs (Mar 24, 2011)

I had 3 people contact me for Hedgies this week that had deposits with another breeder and when went to pick up wouldn't buy from them due to the conditions she had them under. Surprised me. So I told them to explane the conditions and they said cages were gross aol I asked was it the ones with babies or all of them and they said all of the cages were nasty and the room smelled real bad of ammonia. This person is usda licensed. But people walked away from their deposit. Im glad some people realize not to get from people that don't take good care of their Hedgies.


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## danilious (Dec 14, 2010)

no i have time for taking care of hedgehogs its just the one i have is so timid it takes to much time to get her us to me and i am sometimes away from home . but i dont neglect at all if thats what you are saying im just not us to timid hedgehogs and my mom was tired of the smell when we had onyx i cannt help what she wants me to do if your trying to say im a bad person then your wrong i dont neglect or anything i love my freaking hedgehogs i resently lost my eldest to sickness and it tore me up inside i just need a hedgehog i can handle. so if your trying to say something im not pleased.


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## danilious (Dec 14, 2010)

im sure if i was snappy im just going through griving and i miss him soooo much and i just need a hedgehog that is laid back like he was im just soo heartbroken .


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## danilious (Dec 14, 2010)

im kind of an impulsive person to and i own to that srry if it seems like im a bad person. because im not i freaking love animals and i think its sick how people can just neglect animals.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

As I said, I was just curious. Yes, I do admit it doesn't look fantastic when someone rehomes two hedgehogs, then is looking for another one. I'm sorry that your mother made you give up Onyx and that you've lost your older hedgehog. Situations are different for everyone on here, which was why I was asking. I can understand impulsiveness and wanting to get more hedgehogs, especially after losing one, but just try to keep in mind the amount of time you have to devote to care, cleaning, and socializing. If you're looking for a calmer, more friendly hedgehog that doesn't take time to socialize, I'd suggest checking at breeders for retired breeding hedgehogs - it's the best chance of getting a hedgehog that has a good attitude, since good breeders will know the hedgehog's personality & tell the truth about it, and you won't have to worry about quilling changing their personality.


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## NoDivision (Aug 29, 2010)

danilious said:


> i planned on getting this really stinking cute baby boy they have tho


Why on earth would you buy from such an attrocious store? I'm sorry but I do not understand that at all. You're aware of the terrible conditions of these stores and still want to buy a hedgehog from them? Don't give them your money!


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## danilious (Dec 14, 2010)

:| i didnt think of it that why i just wanted to say him heh :| but i didnt give up onyx he died


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## danilious (Dec 14, 2010)

but i didn't give up onyx we worked it out but onxy his the older one that died. my situation with zelda is the breeder came on a trip to indiana and i could pick up my hedgehog but she brought the wrong one and i had to go with her. and other person that commented i relize that now but i i was thinking about was saving those poor things just bringing him out of that.


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

IMO and I'm not saying this to be mean, but if you do not have the time, or are unable to care for a hedgehog that is timid, you should not be thinking of getting another hedgehog. Hedgehogs take time and the timid ones take no more or no less time than a social one. Timid ones only require a different strategy. So you get a new one that seems social now, but how do you know it will be social when you get it home or 6 months from now. There is no guarantee with hedgehogs and if you are not willing to accept the hedgehog for it's own personality, then perhaps you should consider a different type of pet. 

You say Zelda came from a breeder so the breeder is the one she should be going back to.


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## danilious (Dec 14, 2010)

mmmh .... okay..... i thought this was about pet stores not lets bag up on someone you don't even know .


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## sparkmanr (Aug 29, 2012)

I'm just going to interject my two cents in, not that anyone asked for it. I'm not saying this in a mean way or a demeaning way to you so please don't take it that way. I'm assuming that since you said your mom made you get rid of one or tried to make you get rid of one that you are a teenager who still lives at home? If this is the case then I would like to point out to those who have made comments about decisions to get another one or care of a hedgehog ultimately lies within the parents. I think it is the parents responsibilty to make sure that they aren't bringing pets into the home that can't be cared for properly including having time or patience enough to deal with a difficult hedgehog. I have a 17 year old daugther who loves my Milo to death but Milo is my responsibility and i did buy him for me. She loves to play with him but when it comes to taking care of him and paying for his needs that is all on me. I would never purchase a pet for my child and think they alone will be taking care of it. We who have kids of any age know better than that. I'm not trying to be mean or harsh to anyone involved (mother or child)in this situation but I think as an adult its the adults responsiblity ultimately for any living creature you yourself or your child brings into the home. 

Sometimes we have to learn to curb our compulsive purchase and pet purchasing behavior in order to do what is best for the pet itself. That's part of maturing and being grown. Some adults who are grown still have issue with controlling impulsive behavior to purchase things or adopt or buy pets they can't really or don't have time to take care of. We have all done it at sometime. Just be careful and be aware since you said you were aware of your issue with that. Just trying to help.


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## danilious (Dec 14, 2010)

well yea we talked that out with her she and i agreed to clean his cage together. we didnt give him away and i am responsible 20 year old woman . i just love who people judge people they dont even now my mom is a responsible women as well.


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## sparkmanr (Aug 29, 2012)

I wasn't judging or making assumptions. I was saying *if that *was the situation then it would be your mothers responsibilty. I'm sorry you feel that everyone is judging you and/or your mother. That isn't the case at least not with me. There are quite a few under age owners on this site and sometimes I think the advisors forget that. If you are 20 then you are old enough to know that purchasing a pet on impluse isn't the smart thing to do. I would have a house full and a zoo if I got every pet I ever wanted. Unfortunately you will find when you put your business out on advice giving websites you will get ideas, opinions, and judgement on what you are and are not doing right. that's part of life. Criticism can be hard to handle. Unfortunately that's part of life too. Good luck in finding the perfect hedgie or pet that works best for your situation. I'm sure that is all everyone else wants for you as well with all their advice they have shared as well.


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## danilious (Dec 14, 2010)

yea i guess your right  thx


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## AngelaH (Jul 24, 2012)

Back to the topic of bad pet stores.... it just breaks my heart when I see some of the conditions, and I too want to buy the hedgehogs from the stores in order to save them from that life  I've actually considering doing it because it feels like I'm "rescuing" the poor little guy. But, I understand the argument mentioned that it is actually making things worse because then they will just get more and treat them that way so I won't. There are 2 places in my town that have hedgehogs, one is an exotic pets specialty shop, it is bright and clean but the hedgies are all housed together in a glass aquarium and no wheel  I've tried to talk to them but they haven't changed anything. The other place is worse. Its a little shop in a strip mall called "Pet Time" and it was like the one described at the start of this thread, dark, dirty, over crowded, the animals looked neglected, dirty, possibly ill even. And they had a lone little hedgehog in a tiny tiny little cage, no wheel, filthy, extremely overweight. I cried.


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## connorshogs (Mar 24, 2011)

The sad part is its not only stores that keep crrapy dirty s smelly cages breeders do to. Some people get into it just for cash. Don't get me wrong I like when I can cover my vet food care cost by selling babies but most months I'm in the hole or dang close. People do it for the wrong reasons. I think most start off with good intent and just go off the path from their


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## sparkmanr (Aug 29, 2012)

I've only seen one pet store in my area that sells Hedgehogs and I stumbled upon it by accident. I was in there looking for stuff for my hedgehog that i was picking up from a breeder. I walked by this line of smaller I would say gerbal or hamster sized cages and saw a tiny sticker that said hedgehogs $169 on it. I saw a shadow in the little house in the cage. Again, no wheel, it was dark and hard to see. They looked like older hedgehogs. They were definitely not babies like when I got my Milo. I peeked in and one of them hissed at me. But there were two in there. No way to tell whether they were boys or girls or one of each. I just thought how horrible it would be if they were housing a male and female together and the female was prego. My husband and I went back a few days later because he was looking for stuff for his saltwater tank. I showed him the hedgehog and he said it was cheaper and I wouldn't have to drive four hours to pick it up so I should have bought mine from there. I told him no way. I wanted to know exactly where mine was coming from, it's lineage and I wanted to meet the breeder. He just rolled his eyes at me. I made the mistake years ago (not knowing better) purchasing a dog from a pet store. They lied to me and told me stuff about the breed that was wrong. I wanted a dog that didn't shed much, that was calm, and lap dog. I ended up with the exact opposite. Not that i don't love her and all but she isn't want I told them I wanted. They just wanted to see me a $1200 dog. And I played right into their hands by being naive and not doing better research. It only took me once to learn my lesson. Sorry I got off on a rant there, but you guys know what I'm talking about. It's very hard to resist those faces when they are begging for love and attention. I wish there was more we could do other than to just not buy from them.


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## danilious (Dec 14, 2010)

if i was to ever get another hedgehog i wont get it from a pet store . i got onyx from a pet store but not any more will i do that.


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