# Worried..



## darkally (Oct 16, 2010)

Hey all. I have not made any posts in awhile about Leme, just wanted to let everyone know what has been going on so far..
Well it turned out that Leme is a he, I did finally check him. The more I found out about him the worse I felt, he was left untreated with mites and fleas for possibly up to 6 months before I got him, in terrible living conditions..He has been treated with Revolution, but I am afraid it may not be in time. His condition does not seem to be getting any better and the other day when I was holding him I noticed that he was not using one of his paws barely at all. I am not sure if it has been broken or paralyzed. But he seems to not want to move it very much, I did not notice it before either. He is about a year and a half to two years old, and did come from a pet shop. He seems to be 'wobbly' but I did not think that it could be WHS since he is older, I was figuring it might be something else, but not sure what yet. maybe mites or infection? He has never curled into a ball an only does the front ruffle when scared. I am not sure if he 'can' form a ball, since he does seem overweight compared to other Hedgies I have seen ( He is about 5 pounds) He doesn't seem to be losing too many more quills since the treatment, but still is not very active. He does eat and poo normally. ( And I add flaxseed oil to his food now and then as well) His skin is still pretty flaky and his ears are very tattered..but he does not like them bothered. I am still scared to try and bathe him again since the bleeding incedent, and I know that people are probably going to recommend taking him to a vet at this point but that is another clincher, the person who sold him to me lied about the vet and I am not sure of any vet's nearby who would know of taking care of a hedgehog, nor would I really trust them with them, the closest one listed is still many hours away from me..I really have been trying to do everything I can for him..but maybe it is not enough.  I really wish things would turn around and he would just start getting better..but I am guessing there might be more going on than just the mite problem, I think the Revolution is doing its job there as I have not seen any fleas and he has not itched since the application. He does not look good overall..and he acts lethargic, but I don't think it is hibernation since he is at the right temp and has been eating and drinking the same this whole time. Just wanted to let everyone know what has been going on..let me know what you all think..


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## Hedgieonboard (Nov 15, 2009)

Five pounds is really big, Ive never head of an APH that size. One of my thoughts was hibernation too, what is the temp in the cage (73-78 F is the normal range)? Another main component of hibernation is the amount of light they are getting (12-14 hours is recommended). For the light you can just use a regular overhead light or lamp and try to have a routine with it so its on at the same time everday. You may already be doing this but wanted to throw it out there just in case.

It's good you treated with Revolution and that will probably help him out with his skin. You could try to give him an oatmeal bath to help out also as its very gentle if you just use oatmeal. What was the bleeding incident though? Was it bleeding from intense scratching or any injury? If it was just a scratch you can treat with regular strength polysporin (the extra strength is dangerous). 

What kinds of food does he eat? For him to be 5 pounds it really sounds like a medical reason. Normally its suggested to get a food with a lower percent fat and try different ways to let them get exercise but there may be a lot more to it with your guy. This is something that in my opinion you'd have to see a vet.

I really feel for you that the person lied about the vet. It was really good you took him in so he has a chance now. I'd call around because sometimes even if a vets office don't see hedgehogs they will know someone that could help. At this point though even if the vet doesn't specialize in hedgies, if they are willing to see him it would probably be best for them to check him out. They may actually be able to help out and you always have the right to refuse something if the treatment does not sound right to you or you think it would harm him.

Sounds like the things you are doing are great, he just may need a little bit more from the vet because of some of the healthy sides of the issue. Hope everything works out great


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## Puffers315 (Apr 19, 2010)

Vet wise if you're willing to post up your general location, someone on here might know of a vet near you, and I do believe the Hedgehog Welfare Society and some other sites do have detailed vet lists. Like Hedgieonboard said, even if you can find someone with general knowledge, I do this, my 'general' vet which is local has some experience and I use him for general checkups, while also teaching him things here and there, he's a really good doctor (sad story, is a highly educated horse doctor but became crippled after getting kicked in the head, by a horse, but he deals with all kinds of animals, we had a goose with slipped discs in his neck that he fixed).

I'd personally like to see a picture of him, just to compare his size. You're right about his size compared to most hedgehogs here, I think average size around here is 250 to 450 grams with some of the larger ones (like Hester) getting up into the 600 or 700 grams. 5 Pounds put him at about 2,200 grams, though its possible. I think it was Nancy who said back in the old school days AP hedgehogs were commonly 1000 grams or so, and then breeders worked on reducing their size via selective breeding.

But you're doing a good thing, he might be lethargic just due to his size, depending on if he's suppose to be that size or is indeed overweight. Look at his shape (looking down from above) and he should have a shape like..



> [ HEAD ]
> 
> Type 1 ... | |
> Type 2 ... ( )
> ...


Overweight seems to be the ( ) shape except they're as wide as they are long. Also look for other things like extra skin in the armpit area, a double chin and sometimes a hump in the shoulder area.


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## PJM (May 7, 2010)

Poor sweetheart. I really hope that it's something he can recover from. My heart goes out to you both.


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## darkally (Oct 16, 2010)

I will try to get some good pictures of him on here so you all can see him. I only have pictures of when I first got him and they are not very good.

He eats Wellness Indoor formula. With flaxseed every few bowls I give him ( He was on junk food when I first got him but has been switched over for awhile now. 
I can try to weight him again or use a different scale but I am pretty sure it was right under 5 pounds. ( but he wouldn't stay on the scale) And I would say he is more of the ( ) shape. but I am going to post pictures soon so you guys can tell me what you think. He does not seem to be disproportioned just big..
The light might be a bit of a problem since he is not in my house right now. But they usually have it dark in the PM hours..and it is high 70's near his cage, He is not too far from the heater. No drafts either. 
And I live in the Western KY area (US), I am going to call around for a vet when I get the chance.
I believe the bleeding was from the scratching, I could not find any lesions or cuts when I checked him though.










Keep in mind this is an old picture. I am not using that litter and there is not of the same stuff in his cage now. Defiantly not the wooden log, which could be where he got the mites from in the first place. The pic is too fuzzy to really see the quill lose on the back of his neck and I think the strange things on his back is just the litter he had on him. I have a few more pictures but they are worse than this one and even harder to make him out in.

* To give you guys a good idea of at least length when I hold him in the palm of my hand (His belly flat out) His head and hind end extend past on both ends. It is easier to hold him with two hands than just one..


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## darkally (Oct 16, 2010)

I was trying to find a way to edit my last post but I did not see an edit button..i thought we had those.

I think my hedgehog is going to die. I went to check on him and now his leg is completely immobile, and he can't walk. I know he was just the other day, since he was eating and drinking and doing everything fine. I also saw that his ears had a lot of gunk in them. which means he probably has an infection. or fungus or something.The vets are all closed and will be until monday anyway. I don't know what to do..


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## suwanee (Nov 15, 2010)

I'm really sorry this is happening to you and your hedgie right now.

There are "Emergency" vets in many cities, have you looked to see if there is one near you? 

I'm very sorry.


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## lmg_319 (Oct 4, 2010)

Did you try calling the emergency vet? I had to last weekend and they were great. How is she doing? I hope all is ok!


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## susanaproenca (Aug 14, 2010)

Call some vets and try to find an emergency clinic. Even if they don't see a lot of hedgehogs, maybe some vet will be able to see him and medicate him until Monday when you can take him to a hedgie specialist.


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## susanaproenca (Aug 14, 2010)

Call some vets and try to find an emergency clinic. Even if they don't see a lot of hedgehogs, maybe some vet will be able to see him and medicate him until Monday when you can take him to a hedgie specialist.


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## Hedgieonboard (Nov 15, 2009)

Sorry to hear he is going through all this. He definitely needs the vets as soon as possible with the serious symptoms he's having. I tried to do some searching in Western Kentucky for emergency vets and there is a ton so hopefully there will be one close. This is the link for the Kentucky Vets from HHC http://hedgehogcentral.com/vetkentucky.shtml, a few of them are emergency vets. Also with a google search I found that there is handfulls in the Louisville Area and also in Lexington in Western Kentucky. Hope this helps and please keep us updated on the little one, hope he makes a recovery.


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## darkally (Oct 16, 2010)

Those were all 5 or more hours away. And the people around here mostly do not even know what a hedgehog is. I had to wait because even though all of them said they had 24hr emergency services none gave their numbers for it and most did not answer. there is only one that looks promising. Other than that it is one other that 'might have to look a the books' . I have been checking on him and got him to drink a little water. I am not sure if he ate anything. He still tries to walk though..If this doesn't work out I am taking a long road trip asap.


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## darkally (Oct 16, 2010)

I took him to one of the vets that were recommended, but then he basically told me to take him to a specialist that there was not much they could do for him and that his condition is very bad. I won't be able to take the 6hr trip and he needs attention asap. I am going to have to give him to a rescure I feel that I have done all I can for the little guy, And I really don't want to but I also do not want him to suffer and not get the care he needs. The vet said that he is not sure if his paw is broken or not but it could very well be the fluid build up. Leme has become bloated. He said that likely no matter what I would have done these were preexising conditions from the neglect that he suffered due to his previous owners. he may have a heart, liver or kidney problem and basically when I gave him the dose of revolution his body was not able to process it so even the tiniest amount was a shock to his system.  ANd it turns out the scale I used was broken he only weights 1 pound! Now I am glad that I did not give him very much of the revoulution..not that is matters I guess. Had I done nothing the fleas and mites would have killed him, but even doing something has not saved him at all. I got him to drink earlier but I have not seen him eat at all..I can't just sit and watch him die..I am calling and taking emails to try and find somewhere, I may have something lined up but I am not sure yet.


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## Immortalia (Jan 24, 2009)

Did you pick up any Hills A/D while you were at the vet? It's an easily syringeable food, as you would need to make him eat.

Hmmm, this may not be something you want to hear/read, but...The kinder thing may just be to let him go and be at peace.
It sounds like you have done all that you can, but what he suffered prior to you was just too great for him to handle. Living with you was probably like heaven to him already. 

*Hugs* I hope everything works out.


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## PJM (May 7, 2010)

I am so, so sorry that this is happening. I'm keeping you both in my thoughts. I only wish there was something I could do to help.


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## darkally (Oct 16, 2010)

You guys have helped a bunch, I don't know what I would do without you all here at HC. No I didn't get him a feeding needle..I was not thinking very clearly after I got the news. The little guy still has strength and is fighting it though..The vet said he did not think it was neurological from the Rev, but more to do with everything else that was going on inside leme. I just don't want to give up on him, if there is anything that can be done.

Today I held him the whole way to the vet in a blanket, so he would be warm and upright. ( I didn't want to just leave him in a carrier in the car. He was kicking so furiously I thought he would hurt himself. Finally he got comfy when he had just his head poking out against my chest and I talked to the little guy and cuddled with him. That was the only way he wanted to ride in the car the whole way.It is just breaking my heart to see him this way..Feeling like I cannot do anything for him is the worst.


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## darkally (Oct 16, 2010)

I have someone coming on the 28th..all the way from Texas! .any ideas on how to keep him well until then? Besides the vet is there any other place that sells the feeding tubes..How often should I try and get him to eat and drink? I am not 100% sure that he is not eating now, I have been putting his food near him and the other day before I took him to the vet he was on the complete other side of his home. I have it set up so he does not have to go as far to get to anything. I just don't want him to hurt himself more by trying to run around on three legs..


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## susanaproenca (Aug 14, 2010)

I'm posting this other thread here, so people understand what's going. 

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8563

Are you able to drive him to the vet in Nashville? You said you contacted one of two rescues, how about the other one?


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## susanaproenca (Aug 14, 2010)

Here is a list of vets I found in Kentucky:

http://www.crestwoodvethospital.com/cre ... narian.htm

http://www.yext.com/vets/profile/kentuc ... tucky.html

http://www.flanaryvet.com/html/services.html

The first one sees hedgehogs for sure, the other two you might want to call. Are they near you?


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

Here are two Hedgehog Welfare society rescues located in Tennessee

TENNESSEE: Tonya Thomas, Jellico, TN. Telephone: (423) 784-0606 E-Mail: [email protected]

TENNESSEE: Lisa Duncan, Knoxville cell: (865) 292-9770 Home: (865) 288-0032 Email: [email protected]


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## SnufflePuff (Apr 16, 2009)

ANY veterinary clinic will carry syringes, just ask for a 1ml or 3ml (They cost like 25 cents or are free at most places). Otherwise pet stores carry syringes or eye droppers for feeding orphan kittens / puppies. Human pharmacies may also have them for babies.

Buy canned Hill's A/D cat food, MediCal Recovery (both only sold at vet clinics) or get some organic meat or fruit or veggie baby food (I say organic cause Theres no added salt etc).

Heres how to syringe feed:
- warm the food up and add a bit of water (test heat with wrist not hand)
-run it through syringe a few times to break up chunks
-insert in side of hedgehogs mouth (never in front)
- do NOT feed while hedgies on their back
- squirt a little bit at time, let chew and swallow, then a bit more
- feed multiple times a day (more is better as you'll probaby only get a few mls in each time)

you may also want to syringe pedialyte (pediatric electrolyte drink) to prevent dehydration
best of luck and I hope your hedgie makes it till the 28th!


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## Hedgieonboard (Nov 15, 2009)

Any updates on Leme, I've been thinking of him and wondered if he is doing any better?


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