# Skin flaking in big patches :( Poor baby!



## Kaitlyn531 (Nov 29, 2010)

When I first got Winston, his skin was phenomenal.. But recently, he's been having lots of bouts of dry skin. A few months ago, his skin was a little flaky. I started giving him Flax Seed oil in his food every week. That fixed it for a little while, but now it's come back pretty badly. Instead of being fine little flakes, I get fine flakes on his bedding and these super-flakes that I can peel off his body with a pair of tweezers.  He's not itching himself too much, but he does scratch himself some. I've also noticed a few quills come out that I'm attributing to this. Two of the quills that I've seen have orange ends, which seem pretty odd to me. I started trying sunshine factor with him, but I'm not 100% sure he likes it - I mix it in with his food, so I'm not entirely sure if he's really enjoying it or not. I don't know if I need to continue trying to give him oatmeal baths and flax seed oil/SF or if I should just take him to the vet. 

Oh, and I've been using Aspen shavings with him, but recently switched to a fleece liner. 

Any suggestions would be appreciated


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

Orange ends and having used wooden bedding makes it sound like mites. Better schedule a vet appointment and take him in to get some Revolution. Make sure that you insist on Revolution, even if your vet wants to use Ivermectin. Revolution is safe and very hard/impossible to overdose. Ivermectin has been known to cause deaths because it's an injection, very easy to overdose, and it works by paralyzing mites, so an overdose can easily paralyze the hedgie too.


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## Kaitlyn531 (Nov 29, 2010)

That's what I was thinking too  So strange that he would be showing symptoms now considering I've been using the same bag of Aspen shavings since I got him and have no other animals around.  But yeah, I've found a few more quills that he's lost that have orange ends, so I'm definitely calling the vet Monday to see when I can bring him in  Let's hope I don't have to fight with them to get Revolution! Any suggestions on how to convince them if they're against the idea?


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

If they really try to insist on Ivermectin after you've given your reasons why, personally, I'd just tell them that you absolutely refuse to risk your hedgehog and that you'll find a different vet. But I wouldn't think they would fight for it that hard, especially if you mention the risks.


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## MissC (Nov 15, 2010)

Snarf's first vet looked up Inver and Rev and 'assured' me Inver is just as safe.

I said I had heard it can sometimes be lethal.

He looked at me.

I asked very NOT sweetly if he would rather use Rev, which we KNOW is safe or take the chance on Inver, which MAY have issues and he could deal with me later?

He turned around and got the Rev.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

:lol: :lol: Smart man!


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## Kaitlyn531 (Nov 29, 2010)

Ha! I'll definitely have to try that if they insist! 

Dog formula, right? 

We go to the vet tomorrow (aka april 7th at 3pm - I always say it's not "tomorrow" until I've gone to sleep ) so hopefully everything will get sorted out! He's still losing quills pretty bad and his skin is flaking pretty badly. I really havent seen him scratch himself though while we've been playing together, but then again I haven't really gotten to see him walking around his cage, because I've been busy working on final projects/papers/exams, etc.  

...Although I will say he ran almost 3 miles the other night, according to his wheel-ometer  So he must be feeling okay! haha


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## Hedgieonboard (Nov 15, 2009)

They usually will give the Revolution for Kittens, it comes in a really small tube  Good luck at the vets tomorrow.


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## Kaitlyn531 (Nov 29, 2010)

Thanks!


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## Kaitlyn531 (Nov 29, 2010)

Ugh.. Today has been a mess. 

Well, I went to our Doctor today, and he absolutely flat-out only wanted to do Ivermectin, basically said not to trust what you hear on the internet, and kind of insulted me for not taking his advice. Once I pretty much demanded to get Revolution, he said that he doesn't even carry Revolution. So if I wanted to get it, I would have to call another vet. I called the vet that my family uses for their dogs and cats, and that doctor said that she legally couldn't prescribe it for an off-label use.. BUT they gave me another phone number to call for a different vet that could potentially do it. So I'm seeing a different vet tomorrow that has already agreed to doing it. 

Geez.. And I thought he was a pretty good doctor  He had said that he's never had any overdoses of Ivermectin and assured me that it was safe. I told him that I would prefer to try the Revolution first and that if that doesn't work, I would use the Ivermectin. Ugh. So much trouble.


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## Sunflowerseeds (Mar 3, 2011)

That sounds like a real mess, at least you were finally able to find a vet that's willing to work with you. When Cupcake had mites, I called my usual vet and they don't treat exotics but my doctor said he would do some research and call me back. Three hours later, he called me back and found the dosages of Revolution safe for hedgehogs, and told me to bring her in for a weigh in and even made up the dosages for me in three needle-less syringes. I was so happy, I really didn't want to go to a vet I wasn't familiar with.


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## Kaitlyn531 (Nov 29, 2010)

Lucky  My original doctor said that if I could get it, he wouldn't administer it and that I would have to do it myself. Ugh.. Glad that the other doctor said she could do it though. I'm supposed to see her tomorrow at 9am and it sounds like she's much more willing to go a little against the grain. 

My original doctor though said that Revolution wasn't as effective as invermectin because revolution works well on animals with a lot of follicles (i.e., cats and dogs) but that hedgies don't have many follicles so it doesn't work as well? Any thoughts?


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## MissC (Nov 15, 2010)

Sorry you're having such a hassle but you at least know what kind of a vet you're dealing with, right? Even if he doesn't carry Rev, he could have brought it in. Better you know now than later, I'd say.

My vet said, as he was handing over the Rev to me, that he thought Inver was safe but he had nothing to lose by using Rev if that's what I wanted...THAT's what a vet should say!


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## Kaitlyn531 (Nov 29, 2010)

Yeah, honestly, I may just end up using this new vet a lot more often if she's okay. I mean, clearly, if she's going to actually treat me like an intelligent person and with respect and dignity by actually LOOKING up the correct dosage, she sounds like a lot easier person to work with than the guy we saw for Winston's first check up. 

And what's even cooler about her is that she's actually a mobile vet, so she takes house calls  haha


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## quillenmom (May 10, 2010)

So what happened with Winston? My little guy is just over 1 year old and he has really flakey skin and he loses between 8-20 quills a day (but not in patches). He's never been on shavings (just fleece) and there are no other pets, so I don't know how he would get mites. I will looking into Sunshine Factor, but is there anything else?


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## KathyTNY (Jan 21, 2011)

Good girl for sticking to your guns!!!  I believe Nancy and the other wonderful people here on this board who have lived, breathed and nursed hedgehogs for YEARS compared to a vet who might see 2 pogs a year and gets HIS information from the internet and possible outdated vet books!!!!!

Applauding for you!!!!! :lol: 

KathyTNY


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## Kaitlyn531 (Nov 29, 2010)

quillenmom said:


> So what happened with Winston? My little guy is just over 1 year old and he has really flakey skin and he loses between 8-20 quills a day (but not in patches). He's never been on shavings (just fleece) and there are no other pets, so I don't know how he would get mites. I will looking into Sunshine Factor, but is there anything else?


Well, they didn't do any skin scrapings or anything, but she agreed that it was probably mites. So she called in a prescription to VetRXDirect.com and I was able to get everything - though I wasn't too impressed with them, since it took a while for them to get it to me (over a week, although I paid for the expedited shipping) and they never sent me a tracking number. When I called to see what was the hold up, they told me that it was marked as delivered already, and sure enough, it was here. I gave him his first application of Revolution Friday and he's already started improving a lot. I don't see as many stray quills anymore - though I will see a couple, which is a lot better than the up-to-ten I was seeing before! The vet told me that it was a good thing I brought him in, because his case wasn't that bad yet so it would be easier to treat. I'm supposed to give him two more treatments two weeks apart, and then hopefully they'll all be gone! Honestly, I think doing the olive oil bath really helped him - after doing the olive oil bath, he stopped losing quills (well, not as rapidly as before). I'd still recommend taking him to the vet though if you can. I read on the wiki here that there are a few other things you can try. http://wiki.hedgehogcentral.com/tiki-in ... page=Mites I've also heard though that some hedgehogs DO quill again after a year. Key word being "some". If his skin is really bad, I'd definitely start taking precautions against mites, but it's probably worth going in to see a vet.



KathyTNY said:


> Good girl for sticking to your guns!!!  I believe Nancy and the other wonderful people here on this board who have lived, breathed and nursed hedgehogs for YEARS compared to a vet who might see 2 pogs a year and gets HIS information from the internet and possible outdated vet books!!!!!
> 
> Applauding for you!!!!! :lol:
> 
> KathyTNY


Thank you! I have to admit that that first vet made me feel like a fool - after I demanded that I'd rather stick with the Revolution and if that doesn't work, I'd try the Ivermectin, he said "Well, YOU'RE the doctor......." and just kind of laughed awkwardly at me. But I'm glad that I found a vet that would work better for me!


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## MissC (Nov 15, 2010)

Kaitlyn531 said:


> Thank you! I have to admit that that first vet made me feel like a fool - after I demanded that I'd rather stick with the Revolution and if that doesn't work, I'd try the Ivermectin, he said "Well, YOU'RE the doctor......." and just kind of laughed awkwardly at me. But I'm glad that I found a vet that would work better for me!


 :roll: 
I would've said "one of us needs to be".

What an ass. :roll:


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

A skin scrap for mites is often a waste of time. Depending on where it's done it can be negative even though hedgie really does have mites. If hedgie is showing all the signs it is best to treat with Revolution anyway and forgo the skin scrap. A skin scrape does need to be done for bacterial and fungal infections. 

Some vets are very arrogant and seem to hate it when the owner has a bit of knowledge, especially if the knowledge contradicts what they think. That is the type of vet to avoid. 

A good vet should be willing to listen to the owner and if the owner has some differing ideas, be willing to do a bit of research into what the owner is saying. Some vets went to vet school years ago and haven't updated themselves since.


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## shetland (Sep 2, 2008)

Some doctors cannot deal with informed consumers. You are for yourself; you have to be for your hedgie too.


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## Kaitlyn531 (Nov 29, 2010)

Thanks! 

I was really disappointed with him because when I first went to him for the general well-check up, he seemed so good! He was very knowledgeable and knew all the right things so I thought I had found a great doctor.. He knew all the stuff that I had read about on here before getting Winston, so I was really really disappointed when he talked down to me and refused to do Revolution.


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## danilious (Dec 14, 2010)

does my hedgie have mites or just dry skin? because when I got him (mind u at a pet store, Uncle Bills)about a few day before christmas his skin flaked bad but i started using oatmeal bathes and it was'nt bad flaking actually doesn't flake anymore, but he till itches sometimes but not alot and his skin is a lil dandiffy looking but he has not lost any quils since i got him.


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## Kaitlyn531 (Nov 29, 2010)

That's not really something I can answer.. Probably need to take him to a vet. 

I have another question for everyone else now though. I'm not sure if Winston's skin is getting better or not.. He's back to losing more quills and his skin looks differently. You can't really peel of the skin very easily anymore but it's clearly like this all over.. It's more powdery now. I'm supposed to do his second treatment this Friday. Perhaps I should do another olive oil bath before I do his revolution treatment?

Edit: I don't think I explained myself well enough.. So his skin isn't coming off in bit patches anymore; it's more attached to the skin and is only flaking in smaller pieces.. But he's losing quills more again and he still has "dandruff"-like powdery flakes.


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## cylaura (Jan 13, 2011)

Kaitlyn531 said:


> Edit: I don't think I explained myself well enough.. So his skin isn't coming off in bit patches anymore; it's more attached to the skin and is only flaking in smaller pieces.. But he's losing quills more again and he still has "dandruff"-like powdery flakes.


I wish I could answer your question, because I've been having the same problem. Liam has pretty "dandruffy" skin as well - I'm always finding little skin flakes in his hedgie bag, under his liner, on my shirt after I hold him, etc., etc. Flax oil baths seem to be the only thing that helps; his skin is usually pretty clear clear for a few days after one of those. But I try to give him one only every two weeks or so, since I've heard that more than that is too much. He's also been taking sunshine factor in his food for about 3 weeks now, but I haven't seen much improvement (yet). I was trying to hold off on using flax oil while waiting for the SF to take effect, but I finally caved a couple of days ago.  I almost never see him scratching so I don't think it's mites.

How many quills/day is Winston losing? Liam usually loses a few (maybe 4-8) every day, but they're not all coming from one spot, and they all have the little ball at the end, aren't gunky looking or anything.

Anyway, this is a long way of saying: I'm not sure what the answer is, but I really hope you can find out! I've been following this thread with interest, both for your sake and for mine.


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## MissC (Nov 15, 2010)

SF took a full four weeks to work for Snarf. And another two for the quill loss to taper down to 1-5 a day. The skin flaking stopped before the quill loss. He is just now replacing the quills he lost (2months +).


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## Kaitlyn531 (Nov 29, 2010)

So do you add the SF to the food or handfeed it? I ordered SF a month or two ago but Winston isn't a huge fan from what I can gather :/ At least not to the point where he's just licking at something, trying to get more. I tried adding it to his food, but he just eats around it - he's very persnickety with food anyway, unfortunately. Won't any of the mixers I've tried adding to his food. If Chicken Soup for the Cat Lover's Soul goes out of business, we're done for lol 

@Cylaura, his quill loss isn't TERRIBLE - at least not to the point where he's getting bald spots - but I probably pulled out ten or so just from his sleep-house last night that have collected over the past few days. They typically have the ball on them too, but some of them will have a gunky yellow or whiteish substance around the end closest to the skin. He has some of those still attached to him too - when I examine his skin, I can see them. They look like they're on the verge of falling out when they're at that stage.. Strangely enough, I find that it's his white "adult" quills that are being affected by this more. I swear I find more white quills with the gunk on them than his grey-and-white quills. No clue why.. And I'm not sure if this is a sign of improvement or what.. I mean, the skin looks like it's not peeling as much since they aren't coming out in big chunks anymore, but clearly ALL of his skin is that flaky powdery look instead of it being in just a few patches like how it was before.. When I first took him in, his skin was so bad, I could just sit there with a pair of tweezers and just peel off patches of skin that were loose and just hanging there. That wasn't the case last nght when I tried to remove some; they were all pretty firmly still attached to the skin, so I could only get off tiny pieces. I'm going to continue with the Revolution though and hopefully that'll make things better.. If not, it looks like I'm going to the vet again next month after the rest of his treatments are over with


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## hedgiebuddy (Jun 27, 2011)

I know im going to sound realllllllllllly stupid, but what is sunshine factor?  :?:


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## panda (May 23, 2011)

i would say to not peel any flaking skin off as it may hurt him also, and from the sounds of it sounds like another vet visit may be required, i would at the least give a call into the office first thing and see what the vet things about the new symptoms. if he was just quilling again there would be new quills poking in as well and the gunk at the ends of the quills sounds like some type of infection or something that is definitely not good.
I hope he gets better soon! hugs


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## Littlefootsmama (May 23, 2010)

One of my hedgehogs has been having the same symptoms as yours. He has a lot of flaky, cracked skin and also big chunks that can be peeled off like a sunburn. He also loses lots of quills. He has been diagnosed with ringworm twice, so if your hediges symptoms don't get better with the Rev I would consider a possible fungal infection could be the cause. However, I haven't treated mine for mites because the vet always said the skin scraping was negative, but like Nancy said that doesn't always mean they don't have them which I wasn't aware of, so now I am wondering if that is truly what I am dealing with...It would explain why the symptoms keep coming back.

I am sorry about your vet experiences. I ran into that here as well. Some vets seem to have superiority complexes and think what they were taught is always right. Also...a shot is more expensive than Rev, so I am sure, as sad as it is, it has something to do with how much money they can get out of us. If I were you I wouldn't go to him again. I dealt with a similar situation when I first got LF and I had him checked for mites. The vet basically said that I was uneducated stupid teenager and didn't know what I was talking about, so I picked up LF and left his office without paying a darn thing and then I reported his practice. You do what you believe is right for your hedgie, don't let him talk you into anything. Good luck and I hope you get to the bottom of this!!


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## Kaitlyn531 (Nov 29, 2010)

Well, I just wanted to update everyone on Winston's skin. It looks like everything's back to normal! I think it just took him much longer for the Revolution to really take with the mites. Thankfully, his skin is looking great again (although I believe he's now going through the one-year quilling thing. Yay..  ). We just celebrated his 1st birthday on Sunday so it's time for a check-up once more, but otherwise his skin is looking fine! Yay!  

And btw, Danilious, I see you're a Pokemon fan and a Zelda fan too  Shaymin's my favorite pokemon :x I'm a hedgie lover through and through


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## Rainy (Jul 27, 2011)

Littlefootsmama said:


> One of my hedgehogs has been having the same symptoms as yours. He has a lot of flaky, cracked skin and also big chunks that can be peeled off like a sunburn. He also loses lots of quills. He has been diagnosed with ringworm twice, so if your hediges symptoms don't get better with the Rev I would consider a possible fungal infection could be the cause. However, I haven't treated mine for mites because the vet always said the skin scraping was negative, but like Nancy said that doesn't always mean they don't have them which I wasn't aware of, so now I am wondering if that is truly what I am dealing with...It would explain why the symptoms keep coming back.
> 
> I am sorry about your vet experiences. I ran into that here as well. Some vets seem to have superiority complexes and think what they were taught is always right. Also...a shot is more expensive than Rev, so I am sure, as sad as it is, it has something to do with how much money they can get out of us. If I were you I wouldn't go to him again. I dealt with a similar situation when I first got LF and I had him checked for mites. The vet basically said that I was uneducated stupid teenager and didn't know what I was talking about, so I picked up LF and left his office without paying a darn thing and then I reported his practice. You do what you believe is right for your hedgie, don't let him talk you into anything. Good luck and I hope you get to the bottom of this!!


Hi. I saw you were from Bay City, MI and I'm in Perry, MI. I go to Williamston to Cedar Creek Vet Clinic. I see Dr. Derek Nolan. He's been seeing hedgies for years and he often consults with Michigan State Vet Clinic. He's always willing to listen to my opinions and research new information. He's always gone above and beyond for me. I've been taking my dogs there for years. If you can make the trip to Williamston, MI, I can tell you that it is WELL WORTH IT to have him care for your animals.


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## Littlefootsmama (May 23, 2010)

Thanks Rainy! I really really appreciate the recommendation!


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## Rainy (Jul 27, 2011)

No problem. I went to mapquest and started from the center of Bay City to Cedar Creek and it was 1 hour 38 minutes.

http://mapq.st/qtIms1

There are four vets there, but I won't see anyone but Derek. Although I have seen the others, I just like Derek the best. It seems like a long ways for a vet, but I would do it if I moved away. He saved the life of my dog, Betty Lou.

Here is a link to their website too:

http://www.cedarcreekvet.com/

I know I'm going on and on about them, but that's just because of how much I appreciate Derek and his staff. In the case of my dog, Betty Lou, the Human Society where I got her messed up her spay. Derek did two surgeries and ultrasounds at cost (donating his time and Sherri -- one of the owners -- assisted him and donated her time too. Okay, I won't go on anymore, but if you have questions about him, feel free to ask.


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## Littlefootsmama (May 23, 2010)

Thank you for doing the mapquest!  I really appreciate it! and I would definitely drive that far for my boys if it means a doctor that has experience and is also willing to learn at the same time. I may call and speak to him about Little Foot's skin peeling because his fungal culture came back fine, but he still has severe skin peeling going on.

Thank you again!


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## Rainy (Jul 27, 2011)

Oh....poor babe. I know that if Dr. Nolan doesn't know what it is, then he'll consult with specialists in the field to figure it out. I've never been charged for him to consult with other doctors either. Tell him Loraine Crane sent ya!

I hope this gets cleared up soon. Hang in there.

Sending Harvey-Hugs to you both and praying that you'll get some answers!


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