# Another Problem with Ryoko "Prolapsed eyes"



## Pocketsneak (Jan 4, 2011)

How can you tell if your hedgehog has Prolapsed eye... From what i can tell she has it in both eyes... not sure what has happened....


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## nikki (Aug 28, 2008)

A prolapsed eye looks like its popped out of its socket, and its an medical emergency and needs to be seen by a vet tonight.


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## Pocketsneak (Jan 4, 2011)

Here are some pics


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## nikki (Aug 28, 2008)

The eye looks bulged....is it weeping too? its hard to tell with the pic...


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## Pocketsneak (Jan 4, 2011)

No, there doesn't appear to be any weeping... what we are seeing in equal in both eyes on the bottom rear looks like a white tissue possibly the whites of her eyes....


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## Pocketsneak (Jan 4, 2011)

here is another pic


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## Hedgiepets (Aug 21, 2008)

It is fine. It is just a genetic issue. Like a "cherry eye" in other animals.


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## nikki (Aug 28, 2008)

I KNEW you'd know the answer Hedgiepets..I've never seen it before..


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## Pocketsneak (Jan 4, 2011)

If thats case "which i hope it is!" why would we just notice it today... it's not red it's white... you can only see it when she fully unfurled... we do notice that she does digs her face into blankets, is this normal hedgehog behavior or could she be trying to itch her eyes..

Also, she is only about 7 weeks old, we got her at week 5 and she didn't have the condition then.


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## Pocketsneak (Jan 4, 2011)

Got a better picture. Both eyes look like this. Wondering what would cause this to happen as well.


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## Pocketsneak (Jan 4, 2011)

Got a close-up of the last pic.


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## firephoenixla (Sep 13, 2010)

My Paprika has this in the back corner of both her eyes too.. it looks exactly the same as your hedgehog! ...I didn't think it was a bad thing because it doesn't seem to be hurting her.. is it a bad thing though? should I be worried? I just thought they were overgrown tear ducks or something....


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## ScienceGrrl (Jan 4, 2011)

I'm taking Ryoko to the vet as soon as I can get her in today. We honestly don't know if this is normal or not or serious or mild. We've only had her 10 days and are first time hedgehog owners. Our other dilemma is maybe we are not cut out to be Ryoko's owners and are contemplating giving her back to the breeder. In 10 days we've had to diagnose a severe mite infestation ( Brought her home Tuesday night,after having her for ~48hrs she finally unfurled enough and started exploring only for us to notice 100+ white dots crawling on her face and ears) , had to wait until after New Years weekend before getting her to a vet so ended up giving her a 40% olive oil bath per the breeders recommendations followed be an Aveeno bath the next day on a hedgehog we were only beginning to learn how to handle, spent over an hour talking to the vet about treatment options for a 6 wk old hedgehog, finally decided to go w/ Revolution, only to be chastised by the breeder we got her from for giving a 6 wk old hedgie chemical treatment. Now 3 days after the treatment her eyes are puffy and we don't know why....allergic reaction to the revolution, to the newspaper we started lining her cage with since we're cleaning it out daily, to the 10% bleach solution we are cleaning all her cage items with (we are triple rinsing with water after cleaning everything) or did she hurt her eyes some other way?? It worries and stresses us that we don't know what is wrong. We contacted the breeder last night to say we wanted to return her and take the $500 loss on her b/c it wasn't worth putting her life in jeopardy if we failed to recognize any other medical issues with her b/c we just don't know how a healthy hedgehog is supposed to act or look like. But the breeder responded with a comment about how we should return her with all her medical records so her "vet can undo the damage" we have caused her. This just pissed me off. For having her 10 days, I fully believe we have been completely responsible in getting her help as quickly as possible, consulting with our breeder and other breeders on forums such as this and did 3 months of research before purchasing our new family member. We honestly couldn't predict how difficult it is to begin to understand what is normal/ not normal in a hedgehog when faced with complex issues this early. So I would really like the opinion of the experience owners here: Did you find it difficult back when you were first time hedgie owners to get it right? Should we barrel ahead and keep Ryoko or give her up to make sure she goes to a more experienced home?


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

Honestly, that breeder sounds like they have no clue what they are talking about. Please do not send her back there. She did not get a severe mite infection from you. Mites do not get severe in 10 days. She obviously came with them. The breeder knows nothing about when and how to treat mites in a baby. 

You got her at 6 weeks old which is when she should just be leaving mom. At what age did this breeder take her from mom or did she go directly from mom to you. Babies should be on their own away from mom and being monitored for at least a few days before going to their new home. Obviously this breeder did not do that or else she pulled that baby from mom at 5 weeks.

Please do not send her back. You are doing fine with her and she is better off with you. Probably all that breeder will do is sell her to someone else. This breeder sounds like a &%^$#&*


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## HedgehogsAnonymous (Dec 30, 2010)

Don't give her back. You got her at 5 weeks old and she came with mites, your breeder clearly is not experienced. And $500? That seems really steep for a hedgehog.


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## Pocketsneak (Jan 4, 2011)

It's been tough on us and poor Ryoko. Like sciencegrrl said the breeders policy is that the baby must be 6 weeks old and able to eat and drink on her own before she leaves to her new family. We got her at week five because she claimed Ryoko was already doing this... She bust be eating as she poops on me every time i take her out if her cage and I notice pee in her litter pan every morning so she must be using her wheel.
As pointed out we noticed the white dots moving on her face day 3 we joined this forum and contacted the breeder.. The suggestion all around for a mild case of mites was the olive oil bath... Which we gave her and the next day she seemed to do better as we didnt notice any other white dots... However on day 5 we though a vet visit would be in order "just in case" so we took her to the vet and the vet didn't even have to do a skin scraping to see the mites she just stuck a clear piece of tape to her and pulled enough mites to see that way... I was able to talk the vet out of using ivermectin and we went with the persise dose of Revolution.. 
As pointed out we let the breeder know she said she checked the rest of the heard and and came up with no mites and that she would never use a chemical on a baby hedgehog under 6 months of age. We however felt that we couldn't just let the mite infestation continue.
After the 1st dose if revolution we noticed yellow crust forming on the end of her quills and little yellow crusty pieces around her cage... We consulted the forum and came to the conclusion it wad dead mites. The breeder informed me that I shouldn't of used a chemical and that is her skin cells dieing. The next day we gave her a bath with aveno and no more yellow crust was on her quills though wr are still getting some quill loss and dead skin around the cage... We figured it was just going to take some time for that to go away and for the revolution to do it's thing... So every day we clean everything in her cage with the 10% bleach wash then triple rinse (we switched to the 50/50 vinegar and water mix just to be safer) and lined the bottom of her cage with newspaper as it's easily disposable every day.
Ladt night is when we noticed the eye issue. And it's how we arrived at the point we are at now. We contacted the breeder about taking the loss and returning her so she would have proper care from people more knowledgable and informed then us and even though it broke our heart to do so we though it the best thing for Ryoko. She responded with " bring me all the vet records so we can fix the damage done". We both feel we did everything anyone could do but as said we are not sure what to do now.


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## Pocketsneak (Jan 4, 2011)

She was only $250... It was $500 for her, cage, equipment to give her care, and vets visit for mites.



HedgehogsAnonymous said:


> Don't give her back. You got her at 5 weeks old and she came with mites, your breeder clearly is not experienced. And $500? That seems really steep for a hedgehog.


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## Hedgiepets (Aug 21, 2008)

I agree with Nancy! Do not send her back to the breeder. This eye thing is not a serious health problem. I have had a couple with it. My vet was not concerned. Also PM me with the name and location of this breeder, please.


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## susanaproenca (Aug 14, 2010)

It sounds to me like she is in better hands with you than with the breeder.

You seem like you care a lot for her well being and that's what makes a good hedgie-parent.

I remember your post about the Revolution, and Nancy said it was ok to treat a hoglet with it at 6 weeks old. I'm sure she knows what she's talking about, she's VERY experienced. 

Hang in there. It might be overwhelming in the beginning. Take a deep breath and keep reading and asking for help here. You can find a lot of good info. And you can always rant if you have to.


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## HedgehogsAnonymous (Dec 30, 2010)

Pocketsneak said:


> She was only $250... It was $500 for her, cage, equipment to give her care, and vets visit for mites.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ohhh okay. I was gonna say, that's definite over charging. But don't give her back, it'll all be worth it 

I started noticing this same thing in Whiskey two nights ago (the white tissue appeared last night) I just contacted my breeder and will be sending her pics so she can further reassure me, but says that it is just a genetic issue and not to worry.


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## Pocketsneak (Jan 4, 2011)

Correction on dates... Got her December 28th.. Noticed mites and gave olive oil bath on December 30th.. On December 31st gave the aveeno bath, then hit the vet up on Monday January 3rd


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## PJM (May 7, 2010)

Please don't give up yet! This breeder sounds terrible. To sell a baby too young, covered in mites. You have to know that you cant give Royoko back to her. Even if you still decide you can't keep Royoko, it would be better to contact the Hedgehog Welfare Society than for that breeder to re-infect her with mites & earn another $250 from her. 
But we are here to help!! So if you can keep her, we do make a good suport system & will keep offering council & encouragement.


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

With a mite infestation like that you will continue to see dry skin flakes and quill loss. Being a baby, she is also going to be quilling which will also give dry skin and quill loss. There is no way possible for that baby to have a mite infestation that severe and for others in the litter not to be affected too. 

So, basically that breeder is saying she would let babies go for 6 months with severe mite infestations rather than treat. That's not only negligence, but cruel. Mites feed off the blood and severe mites left untreated can kill the animal, especially babies. 

It doesn't matter in the least if baby is eating on their own by 5 weeks, most are, but it still doesn't mean they are ready to be immediately pulled from mom and off to a new home. Obviously this breeder does not care at all about the welfare of her babies. I've pm'd you asking the name and location of the breeder.


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## Pocketsneak (Jan 4, 2011)

Ryoko just got back from the Vet.. The Vet said she for some reasons has Fatty tissue that is pushing out her 3rd eyelid... it's something she doesn't normally see until a hedgehog is older or perhaps overweight... She went ahead and knocked her out and felt the eye and washed it out... she felt no lumps or anything cancerous... and we weight is healthy so not really to worry about it unless we notice it oozing or getting overly large... it is strange it happened overnight however... but with no infection, not being Prolapsed Eye, and no signs of growth of a cancer i would have to go with her word on this matter.
As far as the breeder goes.. i'm not sure she would let them go 6 months without treatment for mites.. though i agree with you that she obviously didn't get her checked before we received her... I know she show's her hedgehogs in competitions so she'd have to take care of them better.. or at least her breeding and showing hogs.. When we got her she seemed reputable as she provided all the heritage paperwork ect ect.
This whole situation leaves me feeling somewhat overwhelmed... we knew set things that i'm not so sure about anymore from her diet to her living environment.. 

Our main concern is how much she is drinking and eating... however if i notice urine stains in her litterbox, and poo in her wheel every morning she must be drinking enough correct?

For food we have been feeding her mealworms as snacks and her diet is a 50/50 mix or Royal Canin babycat 34 and Blue Buffalo weight control chicken and brown rice... The Vet is really encouraging us to start using this Insectivore diet called Mizouri, but i'm not sure if i should or not.

Her cage is C&C 2 wide by 2 long, we have a fleese bottom, 12 in silent spinner wheel, igloo, 2 large pvc pipes for her to run though, and keep her temp from 73 to 78 degrees..

She is still really not that actve, but that maybe because she is young i'm not sure.


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## ScienceGrrl (Jan 4, 2011)

The vet is encouraging us to use the insectivore diet along with the kitty food diet. She wants to make sure we are offering her a complete range of items and not to rely on kitty food as her only dry food staple. So her suggestions are to gradually mix in the insectivore pellets until we get a good mix. Also to keep introducing her to fresh insects and fruits that are safe and not toxic and to make sure we alternate what we are offering her. She is really pressing the importance of a varied diet since what little is know about wild hedgehog eating habits suggest they are varied in what they eat and you typically don't see obese wild hedgehogs.

But she is slightly puzzled why Ryoko is showing this fatty tissue symptom that she has seen in about 6 other hedgehogs she's treated, but they've all been old and overweight. I guess our Ryoko is just going to be a princess. Should prolly get her a gold gilded tiara to wear to show she's boss. 

Also, I'm going to handle this Ryoko problem the way a good scientist should. I've been freaking out b/c with any experiment I do, I have some sort of control or baseline to tell whether or not my experimental conditions are having any affect...well, we don't have a baseline for Ryoko. So I must establish one. Instead of a lab notebook, I will have a Ryoko notebook. Chart her weight using a food scale, document her food types and intake, color of poop, amount of poop, color of urine. Any activities we do with her, pictures of her so we can track anything abnormal. 

And thank you to everyone on this forum for your support and kind words. We truly appreciate knowing that there are some wonderful caring people out there.


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## susanaproenca (Aug 14, 2010)

From what you've said her set up sounds great except for her wheel. Silent Spinners are known for ripping toe nails off and causing toes/feet injuries. You can cover the slits between the white and the colored part or cover the wheel using craft foam to make it safe. But, I must say, I find Silent Spinners to be a pain to clean. We used one with Mustard for a few weeks and I hated every single morning during that time...

The Confort wheel or the Flying Saucer are wheels that are available in pet stores and are safe for hedgies. There's also the Carolina Storm Wheel, which is in my opinion the best wheel available. Super safe, silent and easy to clean. You can find it on the For Sale area of the forum.


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## HedgehogsAnonymous (Dec 30, 2010)

Did the vet say if it will go away?


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## Pocketsneak (Jan 4, 2011)

Sciencegrrl took her, but I dont think she specified either way. My suggestion if your worried is to get her checked.. If anything it will give you a piece of mind that your hedgie is ok... Other then that just keep a look out for any kind of discharge, her scratching her eyes and the like.


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## HedgehogsAnonymous (Dec 30, 2010)

Yeah we'll be going this afternoon, I'm a little over-reactive with all my animals lol


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## Pocketsneak (Jan 4, 2011)

Oh we are as well so I totally understand.. Please let us know what your vets find.


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## HedgehogsAnonymous (Dec 30, 2010)

Will do! Though I am curious if it really is just one of those genetic things. Whiskey and Gin share the same dad, and Gin is about 560 grams (and now on a diet) but shows no signs of bulging eyes. In the hopes of keeping Whiskey and Rum slim, they're on my new food mix as well.


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## RalphsMum (Oct 14, 2010)

sounds like you are keeping Ryoko and not taking her back. I'm glad to hear that! She will be so worth it 

Hopefully you'll get to the bottom of the eye issue.....it's so worrying when these lil guys and gals are sick or something strange shows up with them....


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## ScienceGrrl (Jan 4, 2011)

The vet didn't know if it would go away or not. She said to keep an eye on Ryoko and if we see any discharge or cloudiness in the eye to bring her back or if Ryoko seems to be pawing at it like its bothering her. We opted to get her knocked out for the exam b/c ocular and mouth tumors can arise very quickly o/n and wanted to be able to palpitate the area to make sure no growths were detected. 
I hope your hedgie turns out to be okay as well. Our vet seemed very confidant that Ryoko was going to have no problems with the fatty tissue, her vision and comfort will not be affected by it.


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## HedgehogsAnonymous (Dec 30, 2010)

So I just got home and went to take pictures of Whiskey's eyes to send my breeder and what do I find? No white tissue, and a very less-buggy looking guy.


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## Pocketsneak (Jan 4, 2011)

That's great news... so i wonder if it's something that can happen if they eyes are irritated in some way... maybe dehydration.... not sure... this does give us hope however.


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## RocketHedge (Sep 22, 2009)

One of my hedges, "Max", had the same condition with his eyes when I brought him almost 3 years ago. It didn't seem to bother him, and my vet didn't think it needed any special treatment when I took him for his check-up. He's a few weeks away from his 3rd birthday and he still seems perfectly healthy, so I wouldn't be unduly alarmed by what I saw in the photo. He's the only one of my hedges who's eyes have looked like that, so I don't think it's super common, and it's never seemed to cause him any trouble.

I'll throw out the qualifier that I'm not a vet by any means, just relating my personal experience.


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## I<3Hejji (Aug 29, 2010)

Wow! Just read the whole thread and I have to say you both are amazing owners! Ryoko sounds like he is a very lucky hedgehog to live with you  That is a lot to go through in less than 2 weeks! I am so happy you are keeping him, that breeder does not sound like she knows enough to be breeding and instructing new owners on care. I am glad you have found these forums, the people on here are amazing! 

Also, when things settle down a bit and you don't have so many vet bills + cost of new hedgehog and supplies I also recommend looking into the Carolina Storm Wheel. I started with the silent spinner (which was not very silent!) and then read about how the safety concerns. I taped the slits and saved up for a CSW and really love it. It is much easier to clean, safer, and all I hear now is Hejji's feet on the wheel  

I wish there were more dedicated owners out there like you! It can be overwhelming at first, but hopefully things will settle down and you will get to experience the joy of owning a hedgehog.


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## firephoenixla (Sep 13, 2010)

Hey! I finally got some pictures of Paprika's eye thing... really I just haven't had much time until tonight to take a picture of it.. but here are some pictures of hers, they look pretty much identical to Ryoko's I think.. I'm glad to hear that they are just fat deposit things, I've brought Paprika to the vet multiple times in her short life and the vet has never commented on them and Paprika has never seemed bothered by them so I'm sure they aren't anything.. I wonder how rare this really is in hedgehogs though??? :|


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