# Grumpy (late?) quilling, loves onesie



## rodanthi (Feb 7, 2014)

I brought my boy, Hector, home on the 23rd, so we're still pretty new to each other. There are two questions here:

Firstly, I established yesterday (somewhat painfully) that he is definitely losing quills. He is already 3 months old (rehomed) but judging by the amount I think he's at the beginning of it. Is quilling very late normal? I know we're told 8-12 weeks but he is nearer 4 months than 3 now. I didn't notice any in his box that I brought him home in or in any of his stuff from his old home so I'm pretty sure he just started. So question 1 is is that ok or should I be worried? I was worried it could be stress but tbh the move doesn't seem to have bothered him at all, aside from interacting with me. Poos normal, is eating same as he was before, runs at night, has boy time....

Secondly, I'm not sure if what I'm doing for bonding time is sufficient. I'm guessing that if he is quilling, then that is why he puffs up and tries to bite me when I pick him up. Doesn't seem afraid of me and is quite happy to explore around me and on me, but has a hissing twitching biting mental break down if I even look like I might touch him. At the moment I only handle him in a fleece blanket, and.....in my fleece onesie. The second evening I got him out, intending to only have him out for a few minutes to say hello, and (naively) thought I might look at his nails. After a couple of minutes on my lap he caught sight of the gap in my onesie and made a beeline right for it. Did exactly the same last night, and will nestle himself right down around my hip leg bit and stay there. Sometimes he sleeps, sometimes he sniffs and licks me a lot. He ended up staying there for well over an hour on both occaisons.

So he isn't really getting used to my hands, but has happily spent a long time cuddled in my onesie, which I decided not to interrupt as getting him out of it causes him to get cross with me. I wouldn't rush him, but I know handling during quilling is meant to be especially important. Not sure how to play this.

Gosh that's a long post. I'm chuffed to bits now he is here.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

He's probably just a little late on his 12 week quilling. I wouldn't be too worried about it! If he seems uncomfortable, you can try giving him an oatmeal bath. Just put a handful of plain uncooked whole oatmeal in a sock or nylon & squish it around in the warm water until it goes cloudy. It can help sooth their skin a little bit.

I'm glad you're still taking him out and handling him even though he's trying so hard to intimidate you. What you're doing sounds just fine!  Having him snuggled up and sleeping anywhere on you like that will still help him get used to your scent and get used to the idea that you're not going to eat or hurt him. Progress is usually pretty slow, but hopefully in time he'll become calmer with your hands and being picked up as well. You can also try giving him treats when you have him out to further the association that you = good things, just make sure you don't hand-feed them since that can cause biting (associating fingers with food instead). People use everything from plastic spoons to plastic or wooden tweezers to wooden chopsticks in order to give treats, or just put them in a small bowl or down in front of hedgie.


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## rodanthi (Feb 7, 2014)

Ok, thank you! Unless he is having a really terribly antisocial evening, I think I'll bath him on Saturday night. Do you know what kind of temperature I should bath him at or just do it by feel?

I'm glad what I'm doing sounds alright. I'm trying to get a balance between Kalandra's sticky about letting him just be a hedgehog and battling through quilling so he's at least half-socialised.

They're such wonderfully complex little creatures. 

I don't currently have any tweezers, but what I am doing is leaving a dried mealworm on the scales for him, so something nice happens when I get him out of bed and weigh him before he has a cuddle.

I shall continue with letting him sleep in my onesie for now, and see how bathtime goes. Thank you for quieting my concerns.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

For bathing, you can go by feel, but use the inside of your wrist to test it - if it's too hot for the skin there, it's too hot for him. You want it warm, but not uncomfortably so. Make sure you also have something in the bottom of the sink that he can stand on without slipping, like a washcloth or piece of fleece.

Sounds like a good method! Just be careful with dried mealies - doesn't sound like you're giving too many, but they can be more likely to cause impactions because of the low moisture content & high fiber. Good luck with the bath, and I hope it helps him feel better.


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## rodanthi (Feb 7, 2014)

The bath didn't go very well as far as any actual bathing goes. He spent the whole thing scrabbling about and trying to crawl up my arms while I tried to look at his feet or scoop a little water over him. Eventually he started crapping everywhere, which I gathered meant he was frightened, because he did that when I brought him home the first time, so we took him out.

But we seem to have become friends for it, which is progress! Afterwards he wouldn't sit still in my hands, so he crawled up to my elbow, and that wasn't good enough, so he wedged himself between my upper arm and my chest, and somehow that wasn't good enough either. He kept scrabbling up so I put him against my chest and then he sat still. Without a blanket and all. Never been able to hold him without a blanket before.

Conclusion: we are friends, but he will only behave like it if he's frightened. It was pretty good for his feet but didn't much done with his quills. I'll try again later in the week 'cause he's still scratching like nobody's business and he got grumpy again once he'd calmed down and dried off.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

:lol: I forgot to warn you, that's a pretty common reaction from hedgies! Many don't like water & spend the whole time trying to escape. The pooping in the bath is pretty normal though - not sure why, but apparently warm water just makes them poop. Even hedgies that aren't afraid of water do it, so I'm not sure it's always a fear response. They do often act friendlier afterwards though, like they figure you're their rescuer even though you put them in the water in the first place. :lol:

With the scratching, is he just doing so often, or is he scratching a lot and seeming to be frantic about it? If he seems frantic, it might be a good idea to get him to the vet to be treated for mites - they can have mites even without you seeing them on them, and often frantic, frequent scratching is an early sign of it. Quill loss is too, which makes it hard to figure out whether it's mites or not when it's around quilling time. Do you have any wood in his cage, or did he have wood bedding or anything at his previous home?

Also, if you do take him in to get him checked out for mites, make sure the vet uses Revolution, NOT Ivermectin. Ivermectin is linked with many hedgehog deaths, and while the injected form is the most dangerous, the topical and oral ones are still more dangerous than Revolution. Revolution is topical only, so if the vet mentions any injections or oral medicine, it's not what you want.


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## rodanthi (Feb 7, 2014)

I knew they didn't like it, so I didn't fill it very high and I let him stand on my hands so he was supported. He just took that as an escape route though. I guess I was just surprised because his previous owner said he liked baths. If Hector's reaction was a good one relative to other hedgehogs then goodness knows how anyone else bathes theirs... He was so frantic, bless him. I'm sure it wasn't too hot. The grumpy sod definitely thought I'd rescued him though, he's never been anything resembling friendly before. Tolerant, but not friendly, although it's only been a week. On the upside, freaking out about the water completely distracts him from freaking out about my hands. 

The scratching isn't frantic, I just notice him doing it every so often. But I'm keeping an eye on him - he has a funny woven straw tube from his old home that he really loves, which I'm sure isn't hygienic at all. Can straw harbour mites? Otherwise I don't think there's anything which could be hiding them. I'm planning on removing it before long anyway, seeing as it is impossible to clean, there must be an unbelievable amount of urine soaked into it, but I wanted to leave it for the first few weeks because it is familiar to him.

I'll avoid Ivermectin, and if Hector is still grumpy I might try another bath later in the week. I did want to take him for a check up at the vets before long anyway, because he hasn't been since he left his breeders. If I'm worried he has a mite problem I'll just take him a little sooner. Thank you.


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