# Super ANGRY!



## AlexLovesOlive (Jul 7, 2014)

So I was just browsing around on Craigslist when I saw 3 hedgehogs for sale. I looked at the location and they are in a VERY bad part of town. The lady listing them pretty much just said "Dis heghogs are for sale $275 firm" I messaged the lady because I was wondering if she was a breeder or what and she was like "I bred my two pets so I could sell these ones. We need the money" I asked her some more questions and she pretty much knows NOTHING about hedgehogs...I am surprised they survived at all. People are so cruel and stupid. She wouldn't take any less money... I told her that she is charging way more than hedgehogs with perfect pedigrees cost...UGH angry at people..Sorry just had to vent about the stupidity and greed of some people.


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## gracefulchaos01 (Mar 19, 2014)

~grumble~ people can be dumb.


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

Sadly, with how much hedgehogs cost now and with all the recent publicity about them, these types of people crawl out of the woodwork. Their only concern is to make money.


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## gracefulchaos01 (Mar 19, 2014)

Yes well you can get a great deal on hedgies if you pick them up at a pet store. I got 5 for the low low price of just 1. 
~note dripping venomous sarcasm~


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## AlexLovesOlive (Jul 7, 2014)

Yeah she was like 'I am charging less than most breeders who just do it for money they charge you a deposit then 300 dollars" I was like no they charge you a 60 dollar deposit and then another $140 for pick up...These hedgehogs are also parasite, mite, and whs free... They have pedigrees and all the hedgehog breeders in the Denver Metro area are very small hobby breeders who take pride in breeding and generally care about them, I am in contact with 3 of them" She's like "U hav to wait for dem and dis are ready now, they need small space and r easy pets they sleep while you work and you just feed dem" that's where I started really getting upset....I went off saying NO THEY AREN'T EASY PETS!!! They are very very time consuming and expensive, they require lots of time and money. I was like if I got one from you I would have to pay a $200 vet visit to get a fecal smear, skin test, and overall exam to make sure she was even okay not to mention there is NO guarantee she doesn't have a HORRIBLE disease known as WHS!!!! NOT TO MENTION they require MORE SPACE than any other animal their size... They require huge cages and it really isn't good to keep them in small ones. She replied with "you need small tubs" ugh...I want to save them but can't afford 300 PLUS even if I did I wouldn't give her it because that's enabling more of this sickening breeding.


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## shinydistraction (Jul 6, 2014)

You could put in a call to animal control letting them know you suspect neglect or abuse. Then they could go check it out. It could be that this idiot is actually doing most of it right, and if that's the case then she goes about her business. If her animals are not getting proper care and treatment they can be removed from the home without having to fork over money to scum like that. Or maybe get in touch with any rescue organizations in the area and have them do the leg work?


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## AlexLovesOlive (Jul 7, 2014)

But I doubt animal control is going to care if she is using a dangerous wheel and cages too small...


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## shinydistraction (Jul 6, 2014)

Won't know unless you try. She may also have them in squalid conditions and too many animals to a cage. She could also be inbreeding the animals. Backyard breeding regardless of the species is a huge pet peeve of mine. It's why we have so many homeless, abused and diseased animals in the world. You can also tell animal control what's needed to keep hedgehogs healthy, although it's possible that they already have protocols for it. It's just a thought though. You made it sound pretty bad and I would assume she's keeping them in rather poor conditions that even somebody who has never heard of a hedgehog would know is bad.


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## AlexLovesOlive (Jul 7, 2014)

Yeah I will do that, she tried to tell me she has been on this site and did "a lot of research" on these animals but had no idea that mesh wheels were extremely dangerous to hedgehogs, also didn't know about pedigrees, or care about WHS. She said that she was saving them for "terrible breeders who keep them in small boxes and don't care" when she told me she keeps them in the "medium size boxes" Im not sure what that even means. I flagged her post on craigslist because breeders can't post there but they didn't take them down so I am about to reflag them because she can't actually sell them on craigslist. I also am making another post about her on craigslist saying warning to potential buyers.


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## Teddi4211 (Apr 30, 2014)

Ugh! The lady sounds dreadful! There's a breeder in my area (not the registered, good quality breeder who I would recommend) but a breeder who sells on craigslist! I get so irritated with them because craigslist is for adoption, not selling. Every post is like: "I would love to keep them, but I just can't. $250 for them." And I know it's them posting again with a new batch of babies because the write the same thing and cost the same.


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## AlexLovesOlive (Jul 7, 2014)

Yeah she has 3 of them.... they took 2 I flagged down but not the 3rd....


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## DesireeM81 (Jun 14, 2014)

I'm pretty sure the place my friends got Winter from was like this. They said they found him on craigslist. I don't think they paid that much for him. I'm glad I got him and not someone who didn't know how to take care of him but I worry about the other people who might have gotten hedgehogs from them. 

I, of course, told them in many more words why buying from craigslist is a bad thing and yadda yadda but their hearts were in the right place. Just uninformed. I see things like this on craigslist all the time, sugar gliders, ferrets, guinea pigs and unfortunately hedgehogs. Babies are on their all the time. It irritates me as well and I flag the posts too.


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## AlexLovesOlive (Jul 7, 2014)

Yes she had no idea about their parents or blood lines, was trying to get almost $300 for each of them except her Albino which she wanted $180. UGH I was trying to get her to come down to $100 for one of them so she wouldn't of made ANY money off it but she wouldn't budge after that I said some pretty mean BUT true things. I went on about how irresponsible it is to tell people that they are "easy, inexpensive pets, who only require small cages" which is about as far from the truth as you can get, about how the wheels she uses (mesh ones) where THE MOST dangerous kind of wheel... Which she argued with me about and how even if I got the hedgehog it would cost me AT LEAST $200 in vet costs to make sure she didn't have mites, parasites, diseases, or any kind of ailment so that she wouldn't infect Olive and to make sure she was in good health because the lady had NO idea about her medically. I said that keeping them in plastic bins is NOT the best way to do it, and that she was charging more than breeders who guarentee the life of the hedgehog and make sure they have no whs. I am pretty upset about the entire situation. I called animal services saying there was a illegal breeder


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## Teddi4211 (Apr 30, 2014)

I really hate people like that. I mean, hate is a strong word, but those people are the reason there is WHS out there. I would try and do something for a lot of craigslist ads, but our animal services are not the best. Honestly, my school neighbored a house where the dogs were scrawny, limping, and locked outside. I reported it and they never did anything about it. I wouldn't bother trying to report backward breeders on craigslist. I hope yours are better.


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## MomLady (Aug 14, 2010)

Isn't she supposed to have a USDA license if she has more than 3 breeding animals or something like that?
(One of our GOOD breeders can probably correct me!)
I totally blame backyard breeders for all these hedgies on here that are ALWAYS sick and having one problem after another. In human babies it's called "failure to thrive" and we see it on here too often.

LOL- I loved that comment about getting 5 for the price of one. :-?

Problem is, they don't see that they are doing anything wrong. It's like arguing with a brick wall. :twisted:

ML


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## Teddi4211 (Apr 30, 2014)

That's what I thought about them. She seems to have a new batch right after all of the babies are gone. It's just about as fast as the good breeder in my area, who has many hedgies. So if she only has three, then she is clearly constantly breeding them. They also say how easy they are, how one tub is great since they sleep all day, and how friendly they are. I feel as though some clueless person on craigslist would say, "Oh, look at how cute she is! Easy to take care of, friendly? The best pet for us!" and they find out you have to gain a hedgehog's trust and scrub the wheel every morning.


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## AlexLovesOlive (Jul 7, 2014)

She did say that!!!!! About them being easy and sleeping all the time...OH so mad!


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## Teddi4211 (Apr 30, 2014)

I just feel this is the reason why there is problems with not only hedgehogs, but many animals. Then the hedgehog is back on craigslist because it didn't suit the family who was misinformed (though they should have done research). The one that suffers most is the hedgehog, and it's a shame that some people only care for money.


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## AlexLovesOlive (Jul 7, 2014)

I think dogs suffer the most these people aren't even caring who these dogs go to or what happens to them. All they care about is getting rid of these animals...it's so sad. I mean people who buy these pets share equal responsibility for supporting them by taking these animals.


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## AlexLovesOlive (Jul 7, 2014)

All animals suffer from these people. I don't know if you heard about the exotic warehouse in texas but it was horrible. As long as there is money to be made off animals there is going to be people who abuse it. That's why adopting is so important. Adopting stops the money getting to these people.


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## Teddi4211 (Apr 30, 2014)

Exotic warehouse? What happened? it doesn't sound good.


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## AlexLovesOlive (Jul 7, 2014)

This happened 5 years ago but there are many smaller scale places like this across the USA as we speak, as well as puppy mills, and horrifying backyard breeders. Most puppies, hedgehogs, cats and other animals animals at pet stores come from these places which is why buying them supports them and actually causes more animals to suffer. It may seem like saving that one animal will be better than leaving them there, but in reality it is sending money back to the bad people so more animals in the future will suffer. Save one causing many more the same life who may not have a good outcome. Let alone the mommies of these poor animals kept in disgusting conditions forced to be pregnant constantly and when they aren't able to produce any more are killed or are left to some other terrible fate. 
http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/Thousands-of-exotic-animals-seized-in-Arlington-79323622.html Here's the link to the story I am talking about... Beware do NOT read this if you are faint of heart.


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## shinydistraction (Jul 6, 2014)

Adopting from shelters (and reputable rescue organizations) and buying from licensed, responsible breeders. Definitely two of the most important things we can do to help all species of domestic animals. And of course spaying and neutering where applicable. Don't normally need to do that with our hedgies, but still very important! Friends talking about a new pet? Educate them! A lot of people go on craiglist or wherever not knowing that they're enabling backyard breeders that ultimately result in homeless animals, diseased animals, inbred animals, and aggressive animals.


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## AlexLovesOlive (Jul 7, 2014)

You are right, I have made this my mission in life, I volunteer at several different shelters and am hoping to be apart of the Hedgehog Welfare society so I can help them in any way I can. I have actually spoken at lectures and published my own science papers on these issues and the kind of effects they have on the animals, environment, other animals, and genetic factors.


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## shinydistraction (Jul 6, 2014)

How cool! That's really awesome Alex!


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## Teddi4211 (Apr 30, 2014)

That is very cool! I, too, volunteer at shelters and support the spay and neuter programs.


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## AlexLovesOlive (Jul 7, 2014)

Thanks, I have a degree in Biochemistry from the school of mines and get to actually look into the genetic effects of bad breeding, and even good breeding causes serious issues as when people breed for specific things like looks instead of health or temperament, or don't really pick the best temperamental serious issues can arise. I started working more with animals than science because it made me upset almost every company that would hire me required me to test on animals and there was absolutely no way I would do that, ever. EVER. So instead of making $300,000 to $400,000 a year I am just making above minimum wage and in huge debt. It's pretty sad.


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## Teddi4211 (Apr 30, 2014)

There's a bill in Congress right now to ban animal testing. I really hope this passes. It's been proven that animal testing does not benefit humans at all since animals are different than us. Also, there are animal friendly, more accurate ways of doing things now.


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## AlexLovesOlive (Jul 7, 2014)

Not to mention prisons FULL of willing participants, say you get a little time off if you let us test this on you, or if they are lifers, they get special privileges and get to stay in a nicer bed what not, many of these people already have the illnesses that we are infecting other animals with to test on. I know that prisoners have offered to do this and they still would rather test on animals. They infect chimps with Aids when we have people dying of aids in our prison systems right now. Not to mention it's the one last good thing these people could do and that would be a big deal for them, since most of them are not bad people, just had bad addictions, mental health issues, or were in environment that were not conducive to a normal life.


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## Melanie G. (May 29, 2014)

I don't agree with testing on animals, but you would never get an ethics board to approve testing on human inmates. In the past humans have been used for experiments (the Nazi's did a lot of "research"), as well as psychological testing that messed people up.
That is why we now have clinical drug trials that doctors and researchers do with people.


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## AlexLovesOlive (Jul 7, 2014)

the nazi's did their experiments on unwilling participants and used wacked out science and did it very inhumanly,and as a biochemist even drugs tested in trials are tested on animals first. Not to mention medicine has come along way in 70 years


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## shinydistraction (Jul 6, 2014)

Well, keep in mind, animal testing benefits animals as well as people. We literally would not have insulin right now if not for that and there are lots of diabetic pets out there that need it. I don't like animal testing and no one should like it. But there are clear benefits when it's done in a scientifically sound and responsible manor. The only animal testing there shouldn't be is for cosmetics.


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## DesireeM81 (Jun 14, 2014)

Thank you, shinydistraction! I'm really glad someone said it. My mom works as vet tech in a medical research facility and it makes me extremely nervous when people don't understand medical research. 

I am against animal testing for products but medical testing is necessary because unfortunately, all those prisoners are not allowed to be tested on.


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## Melanie G. (May 29, 2014)

Sorry, I should have worded my response better than I did. I don't disagree with medical testing on animals as those tests can lead to drugs that can then be tested on people. Providing that what researches do is ethical. 
I was trying to point out the extremes.
Shinydistraction, you worded it much more gracefully than I did.


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## Teddi4211 (Apr 30, 2014)

I also should be clear. I don't approve of animal testing for cosmetics or other human products because they have been proven to not help in most human cases since people are different than the animals. However, animal testing on animals is probably necessary to help them in the future. My mom is a doctor who researched it a lot.


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## AlexLovesOlive (Jul 7, 2014)

As a biochemist and this is what I went to one of the best schools in the country most of what is tested on animals is done inhumanly, the animals are NOT treated right, and doesn't really need to be done. I see it from the scientists point of view, not to mention these animals are so stressed out the results and tests are flawed because they are so stressed out.


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## shinydistraction (Jul 6, 2014)

Thank you for understanding what I was trying to say! Which I went back, reread and then realized I should have said manner and not manor. Silly English language.


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