# Quills, Quills, Quills.



## aesthetics (Sep 2, 2009)

Okay. So what exactly are the different aspects of quills? One of my hedgehog's has quills that are both easily flexible, and he also has some that are a bit harder to bend, which is normal, right? But today I found a quill that snapped when I bent it. It was a larger one, so I'm not sure what happened... I took a look at him and the other quills, and they seem normal. 

Why would it be hard to bend? It appears to only be around the band where it's hard to bend, and where it snaps, there in the middle it appears to be a bit thicker, and white. 

Could this be a temperature thing? Seasonal? He doesn't have dry skin.... Nothing around his quills...


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

Quills should not snap when bent. Usually they are very difficult to get to break and have to be bent back and forth repeatedly. Brittle quills is often a nutritional deficiency or illness or stress related. If he is not loosing quills and this brittle one was a random thing, I wouldn't worry too much yet. What foods are you feeding him? Perhaps he needs something more in his diet.


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## aesthetics (Sep 2, 2009)

I thought maybe the quill was frozen, or cold, or something. But it could be stress related -- 

I feed him a high protein (30+%) diet, and a few sparing mealies on the side. In summer he used to get banana, and strawberry (which he'd annoint like mad), but because of winter he really hasn't been getting a good variety... I could fix him an egg or something, but anyway --

Someone in my family thought my hedgehog was obese, and nicknamed him "fatty", so I've been trying to cut back in his kibble amount, and perhaps too drastic. I used to fill up his bowl, so he'd run on his wheel, and run over to the food, eat, drink, and get right back on. But since I kinda put him on a "crash diet", I only gave him about/around a tablespoon of food daily. 

He's not terribly fat, but he doesn't roll into a tight ball unless I play around with his forehead quills while holding him in his ball form.. :/


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## nikki (Aug 28, 2008)

what kind of food are you feeding him? brand etc, also what is the percentage of fat in it? Its not recommended that you ration their food, if they need to lose weight its healthier to give them a lower fat cat food and hiding some around their cage so they have to look for it. As long as he can roll into a ball when you make him do it, he's not overweight.


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## aesthetics (Sep 2, 2009)

nikki said:


> what kind of food are you feeding him? brand etc, also what is the percentage of fat in it? Its not recommended that you ration their food


I feed my hedgehogs a high protein, low fat mix. It's a two meat, one meat meal food - and is in the Whiska's brand. 35% protein, 10% fat min. It also has great levels of calcium, and fiber.

I read from a breeder on here in a thread, that hedgehogs don't need more than a tablespoon of kibble daily, hence that approach rather than filling his bowl to the brim.


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## Hedgieonboard (Nov 15, 2009)

I'm not 100% because I can't find the post where that was said but is it possible the breeder that said only a table spoon might have meant it as a good size for a treat? Like a tablespoon of baby food or something similiar as an occasional treat? About the Whiska's food brand I think I remember hearing that even though it has meat as the main ingredients that it doesn't stand up against the other tests like not having carcinogenic chemicals or meeting the protein and fat % requirements. I looked through a bunch of cat foods when researching what I would feed my hedgie and I really did find that the list that was compiled on this site had the best options on it. All the stuff I read on here about the different things to look for made me even look harder at what my dog was fed as well and he got a new food as well after talking over my plans with the vet lol


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## aesthetics (Sep 2, 2009)

Hedgieonboard said:


> I think I remember hearing that even though it has meat as the main ingredients that it doesn't stand up against the other tests like not having carcinogenic chemicals or meeting the protein and fat % requirements


I did look at the list, and the brand has a lower fat minimum than the 15% allotted. Whiskas, which is owned under Mars, Inc. manufactures all the Royal brands, and Pedigree, as well.

Carcinogens in some pet food include Butylated hydroxyanisole (BHA), Butylated hydroxytoluene (BHT), Propylene glycol (also used as automotive antifreeze) and Ethoxyquin. The FDA/CVM requires all pet foods in the US. Information for Consumers bulletin, on their site: "the Center for Veterinary Medicine is responsible for the regulation of animal drugs, medicated feeds, food additives, and feed ingredients, including pet foods... The Act does require that pet food be truthfully labeled."

What people should be concerned with are wet cat food, as that contains raw preservatives such as Ethelyene Oxide. Most carcinogens are also in coloring, such as chromiums.

The most serious case of carcinogens actually came from a "natural" cat food: "Petcurean and Pet Food Express touted the high-priced Go! Natural pet food as a premium product that was one of the 'healthiest pet foods in the world.' We believe the evidence will show, as alleged in the complaint, that Go! Natural contained substances toxic to animals and this is why so many pets have died." It killed 13 dogs and cats.

And, after looking on the FDA website, it appears that the Nutro brand was reported as under investigation earlier this year.

^ Just stuff I took the time to look up.


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

Whiskas is a CRAP grocery store brand and is not a healthy diet for any animal.


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## LizardGirl (Aug 25, 2008)

I absolutely agree with Nancy. I would never feed any of my animals, heck, not even my crickets Whiskas. I rate them down with Friskies, 9 Lives, etc. Some of the worst stuff you could feed.


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## Hedgieonboard (Nov 15, 2009)

If you found a Whiskas Brand that met all of the food recommendations then that is great because I was unable to. What I meant with my post was that in my search for a good food none of the grocery store brands held up to what I was looking for. I see above you posted a lot of information about the chemicals and that pet food makers didn't have to post them but from what I remember the grocery store brands had Ethyoxylin, BHA and BHT clearly posted in the ingredients list of the ones I reviewed and therefore automatically went off of my list of possibilities. The ones that didn't get knocked off my list for the chemicals got bumped off for having poor ingredients, too much fat, or too high of a protein content. I don't know if you meant that there may be chemicals in the food that we're unaware of, this might be true or might not, but I'm not going to buy one if I'm 100% sure there is because they appear in the ingredients list. I looked through everything because its always more convient to go to the grocery store for a food but the foods didn't make the cut in my eyes. You may use anything you like for yours I was only explaining why I won't use them for mine.


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## Bengall77 (Aug 1, 2009)

It's my understanding that overweight hedgehogs should be fed a lower fat diet but still be free fed. Hedgehogs need more than a tablespoon of food. Quillbert's bowl is about 4" wide and I fill it half way every day. He ends up eating about 2/3rds of it. And as others have said Whiskas is crap. It has a lot of fillers and junk in it like corn and by-products. I've listed the nutritional analysis below, taken directly from their website.

*Whiskas Meaty Selections*
Ingredients:
Ground Yellow Corn, Chicken By-product Meal, Corn Gluten Meal, Animal Fat (Preserved with BHA/BHT), Natural Poultry Flavor, Wheat Flour, Rice, Brewers Dried Yeast, Salt, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Turkey By-product Meal, Caramel Color, Calcium Carbonate, dl-Methionine, Taurine, Trace Minerals (Zinc Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Potassium Iodide), White Fish Meal, Vitamins (dl-Alpha Tocopherol)

Nutritional Analysis: 
Crude Protein: Min 30.0%, Crude Fat: Min 12.0%, Crude Fiber: Max 4.5%, Moisture: Max 12.0%, Calcium: Min 1.0%, Phosphorus: Min 0.8%, Taurine: Min 0.1%

*Indoor Formula*
Ingredients:
Chicken By-product Meal, Rice, Ground Whole Corn, Corn Gluten Meal, Beet Pulp, Natural Poultry Flavor, Animal Fat (Preserved with BHA/BHT), Wheat Flour, Powdered Cellulose, Potassium Chloride, Salt, Vegetable Oil, Caramel Color, Wheat Gluten, Vitamins (Choline Chloride, dl-Alpha Tocopherol Acetate [Source of Vitamin E], Vitamin A Acetate, Niacin Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement [Vitamin B2], Vitamin B12 Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate [Vitamin B1], d-Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Biotin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride [Vitamin B6], Folic Acid), Inulin, Calcium Sulfate, Taurine, dl-Methionine, Minerals (Zinc Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Potassium Iodide, Calcium Carbonate), Whitefish Meal, L-Carnitine, Yucca Shidigera Extract, Ethoxyquin (A Preservative).

Nutritional Analysis:
Crude Protein: Min 31.0%, Crude Fat: Min 9.0%, Crude Fat: Max 11.5%, Crude Fiber: Max 6%, Moisture: Max 12.0%, Magnesium Max .10%, Taurine: Min 0.1%, L-Carnitine Min 30 mg/kg*

While Whiskas meets the nutritional requirements for protein and fat, it does so by using a lot of junk, fillers, and by-products. This is an awful food with almost no redeeming qualities.

If price is an issue then I recommend Royal Canin Indoor formula (for adults) or Royal canin Baby Cat (for hoglets and hedgehogs under 4 months of age). It's more moderately priced than its more expensive competitors and is way more superior than something like Whiskas. Take a look at Reaper's dry cat food list if you want to see what else is good.


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