# Update on the hogs



## pooka dotted (Jan 5, 2011)

So Napoleons dry flaky skin has subsided but the quill loss is still VERY VERY apparent. She is still losing an average of 10 - 20 quills a day. Fuzzie started losing quills as well, and I am going to the vet to get their second dose of revolution. If in a week the quill loss is still happening I am going to put Napoleon under for a skin analysis and hope that I will get answers then.

I am close to tears right now, I don't know what's wrong with her and I have put off paying my phone bill and am getting it cut off because I am saving for her to see the vet. I have been working any hours I can get my hands on, and I'm very very tired. I have also sold my music festival tickets, but I'm worried after this whole fiasco I won't be able to afford her any more vet care. My boyfriend has been paying my rent for me and feeding me because I have no money.

I'm shaking thinking about what I might have to do. And I don't ever ever want it to come to that. 

Napoleons whole butt is almost bare save for a few sparse quills here and there. I have been giving her flax seed to help with her skin AND sunshine factor and both seem to help with skin, but I only see a few like mayyybe 5 new quills poking through. She has become excessively aggressive, and today she bit me for the first time while I was doing her nails because I had to sit her up to reach them because she wouldn't give them to me in the bath or anything and they were getting long. She didn't draw blood but made me aware that what I was doing was hurting and it made me cry. Not because it hurt but because I was trying to help and I felt helpless not knowing what to do now. 

I'm not looking for a pity party, just venting I guess and looking for guidance. I don't want to have to sell them because I know that nobody will want them in the state they are in, but I feel terrible holding onto them if I can't do anything more for them, or if I am stuck financially. Thanks for reading anyways guys. And if you have ANY suggestions or questions even to narrow down your thoughts on what it might be that's wrong, by all means PLEASE ask, or tell.


----------



## moothecow (Jun 4, 2011)

Your poor, poor Napoleon... and poor you, too! Hugs to you both. I wish I could offer some concrete advice... but I'm too new to this to really know much. Does she have any symptoms other than quill loss? Is she eating, drinking, pooping and wheeling a normal amount, or not? 

Can you get a loan somewhere, or pay your vet in installments? I'm sure you considered all options, though...

GOOD LUCK!! Keep us updated.


----------



## pooka dotted (Jan 5, 2011)

Nope, neither her or Fuzzie have any other symptoms, they are both eating, pooping, wheeling and drinking normally. Originally I thought it was mites, then food allergies, but I put her on a no processed diet, so cooked chicken, bugs, eggs, veggies, and fruit. It's still happening though. The dry skin subsided because I now have them both on sunshine factor and flax seed oil baths. Not too often though I just do it when they get really really smelly. I clean the tub with hot hot water before putting them in too. Nothing new has come into the house except pippin' but he was in quarantine and it happened before he arrived. 

I'm uploading a Video now to show the quill loss.
My camera wouldn't focus well enough while just taking pictures.


----------



## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

Can you get Care Credit in Canada and does your vet accept it? I've never used it before, but have heard it mentioned as a last resort on here before... Since dry skin, mites, and allergies are all out the window, is it possible it's a fungus? Or perhaps hormone-related, and she needs to be spayed? I remember both of those being past causes of quill loss that have been mentioned on here.


----------



## pooka dotted (Jan 5, 2011)

There's nothing on her skin that could point to fungal seeing as her skin is clear and there's no discoloration. If it's still possible to be fungal even without those kinds of symptoms then it's possible. As for hormonal, I wouldn't have a clue about that unless I got blood tests done. Which will be my next option as well.


----------



## LarryT (May 12, 2009)

I'm so sorry all this is happening to you and your little loved ones.  Sending you a PM.


----------



## susanaproenca (Aug 14, 2010)

Oh Pooka sweetie I'm so sorry! I wish you were closer and I'd give you a big hug. Hang in there. Sending good thoughts your way.


----------



## kat (May 11, 2011)

hi pooka dotted. im really sorry to hear what you are going through and i hope this might help. 

when i got my hedgie she was in a really bad shape. she had major quill loss before i got her. her skin was discolored and very very dry. her ears were tattered also. i brought her to the vet and she was treated with revolution for the mites. the vet gave her omega magic plus (i dont know if its available there but i guess its the equivalent of flax or sunshine factor? im not sure) that she takes every day. after about 2 weeks her skin cleared up and quills started to grow back! she was also given vitamins for a while just to help her out.

i also posted her that she had an all around skin/hair/quill tests which came out negative. her vet gave her another skin med, which is supposed to rejuvenate her skin. she would lose about 5-10 quills a day and before the medication and now only about 1-3.


----------



## pooka dotted (Jan 5, 2011)

Thank you all for the well wishes. Here's a few pictures to show you what i'm talking about when i say major quill loss. The last one is a video, click the picture for the full video.


----------



## orangebeck (Jun 24, 2011)

Hi,

I have a hedgehog who had major quill loss as well, and it never stopped. He is now 5 years and 4 months old and completely bald. He has 7 quills on his left side along the area that meets his belly fur, and about 15 quills on the right side. But other than his baldness, he was always perfectly healthy. 
I tried all sorts of things to fix the problem. It started out with very flaky skin. Then he would get these awful quill infections. I took him to the vet and he gave me this awful sulphur solution to put on him. He thought it might be mites. When that didn't work, I had him do a skin biopsy. It cost me $800 ($800!!!!!!!!!!), and the results were inconclusive. The vet then said we could treat him with Ivermectin. This led me to believe that the vet didn't really have much knowledge of hedgehogs, because Ivermectin is known to cause hedgehog death. So I obviously didn't proceed with that option. 
After that, I decided to just monitor the situation. Hermie wasn't sick in any other way, so I knew it wasn't life-threatening. 
And here we are, 5 years later. He has lived a long, healthy life. Over the years he gradually lost all of his quills. His skin is soft and smooth. 

It may be that your hedgehogs have this strange condition as well. If they are healthy in every other way, perhaps it's not so urgent that you have tests done right away. I don't want to give the impression that their health isn't important (of course it is), but if you can't make ends meet, and they aren't showing any other signs of illness, you might want to hold off on expensive vet visits.

I hope I haven't angered or offended anyone, I just wanted to share Hermie's story with you and give you my perspective.

Rebecca


----------



## kat (May 11, 2011)

my mustard kind of looked like that when i got her but i guess not as much has fallen off since according to the pet store she was 2-3 months old.

same as with orangebeck mustard had severly dry skin that we are continually treating. her skin is so much better now also quills are growing in.

my vet also injected something to mustard (not ivermectin-its not for mites). it was for her skin but i forgot the name of the med. he said it was safe and he has tried it with his other hog patients as well.

i guess im just trying to tell you what the vet did for mustard to give you an idea.


----------



## hanhan27 (May 12, 2011)

I'm so sorry to hear of your financial troubles, and of Napoleon's problem. 

Orangebeck made a good point - if it seems as if Napoleon is healthy in every other aspect, maybe you should just wait it out before taking her to the vet. Maybe she bit you because she was agitated about having her nails done? My Mildred is normally a very sweet, gentle hedgehog, but when it comes to having her nails clipped, she can get downright mean.

I, too, am not trying to downplay Napoleon's quill problem - I just know that as very caring pet owners, we can sometimes over-react about things that SEEM like it could be a major issue. (I cried for hours when Mildred lost a tooth because I was so worried that she had a gum disease or something) From what you've said, it doesn't sound as if Napoleon is suffering in any way...

It sounds as if Napoleon _could_ be in the beginning stages of what orangebeck's Hermie had issues with. Maybe it's a genetic thing? Who knows. I am most definitely NOT an experienced hedgehog owner, so don't take my word on anything. I'm just handing out advice, hoping that it may help. Just wanted to point out that if Hermie lived a long, full life even with the quill loss, Napoleon might as well.

Do you use fleece for bedding? Just wondering if you could rule out an allergy to detergent.

Don't give up on your little girl & don't doubt yourself. You are obviously a very, very caring and loving hedgehog parent and that's what pets need. You are in my thoughts and I hope you keep us updated. Hang in there!


----------



## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

Is she scratching? If so, I would treat her again for mites and do double the normal dose. Revolution is just about impossible to overdose so no worries there. Do 3 doses, 2 weeks apart.

Bath her a couple times a week using aveeno oatmeal body wash or any moisturizing hedgie safe bath. If there is bacteria on her skin, this will help wash it off. 

Unless she has sores, has quit eating, or showing other signs of illness, hold off on the vet for a few weeks and see if the increased baths and higher dose of revolution helps. 

You should not need to have her gassed for a skin test. Even if she balls up, all the vet needs to do is scrap off some of the dry skin and if she drops any quills while there, use them too. They don't actually need to scrape the skin at this point. If there is bacteria or fungus on her skin, it will show up. Have the skin scrape sent out for pathology because even though initially it will cost more, an inhouse skin scrape is only going to show bacteria or fungus, not what kind it is. In the long run, sending it out now could save you money

We lost our Herisson Ford about a month ago. He was a rescue who came to me about 3 years ago. He had quill loss the whole time he lived here and was just about bald at the end. A few months before he died he developed sores on his skin and in house skin scrape showed bacteria. Had never had that before. Two different types of antibiotic did nothing and he would have been going back for further testing when he started to go downhill. I am certain the skin issue had nothing to do with his death. He was an old man of at least 5 and we have no clue how much over 5 he was.


----------



## MissC (Nov 15, 2010)

Snarf was losing up to 40 quills a day and it took WEEKS to see improvement and I saw very few new quills growing in during that time. After he was on SF for about 5-6 weeks, his quill loss finally tapered to a few each week. The SF and eliminating anything with salmon oil are the only changes I made.


----------



## pooka dotted (Jan 5, 2011)

She is on fleece liners, I stopped using laundry detergent and put it through two hot cycles of hot water. So no allergy possibilities. She is eating drinking and pooping wheeling all normally. I'll give them another dose of revolution and give them a bath just before as per nancys advice. I'm gonna hold back on the vet visit. and when i said skin sample i didn't mean a scraping, I meant taking out a chunk of her skin... i'm just under a lot of stress right now and I was just over exaggerating i think. I just want her to be healthy.


----------



## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

There are so many things she could be allergic to and not just the liners. Smoking, perfumes, any type of scents anyone in your household uses, weeds, grasses or anything that comes in the window, food, treats or even a treat you give her on occasion. Pinpointing an allergy is difficult so it's easiest to omit the obvious such as the laundry detergent and then rule out other things first.


----------



## hanhan27 (May 12, 2011)

Like I said, you're in my thoughts. I know how hard it is to have a sick pet and be uncertain about what you should do next. I hope the revolution helps!


----------



## pooka dotted (Jan 5, 2011)

Nobody in our house smokes, she's been fed all the same things. No perfumes, or scents are ever used in my house. You're right thought nancy. Could be things from my work, or my boyfriend work.. anything.. I'm just scared it could be serious. Would skin cancer cause high quill loss?


----------

