# Very sick kid :(



## SonicsMum (May 23, 2014)

Hello all,

I'm feeling quite lost with my poor Sonic. He's just over 3 years old. About 6 weeks ago a lump showed up on his ear. The vet removed it and he was doing great. Then 2 weeks ago the whole side of his head and body became severely swollen. Back to the vet and we found a lump under his armpit. We did a punch biopsy and it's a plasma cell tumor - incredibly rare in hedgehogs.

He was given pain meds, antibiotics, and then the primary treatment for the tumor was a double-dose of prednisolone to bring down inflammation and suppress his immune response. He stayed at the vet for 3 days / 2 nights and when he came home he looked like a new hedgie! He was perky and happy.

Then on Wednesday he crashed. We were 10 days out from the initial treatment and scheduled for a recheck anyways. The vet had "thought" he might crash (gee...thanks for telling me) and gave him another pred shot and oral meds.

Here's the problem...he looks HORRIBLE and miserable. His respiratory rate is 4 times what it should be. He's laying outside his house (he loves his house) flat on his belly. I feel like it's probably "time" for him but my partner is very against letting him go and the VET is very against letting him go as he still thinks he has a chance. Part of the problem there is that Sonic rallies every time he gets to the vet...he stays in a ball and is quite feisty but then goes back to his state of sickness and lethargy once he gets home.

I'm feeling lost and alone in these decisions and physically ill because I feel so sorry for my kid 

We're 24 hours out from the pred shot and I'm not seeing any improvement. However, he is getting up to drink water on his own. He hasn't eaten in 48 hours and the vet encouraged me not to try and "force feed".

What would you all do? Start syringing food and more water (I'm sure he's not getting enough)? Insist on euthanasia? Let nature take its course?


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

Why does the vet not want you to "force feed" him? If he hasn't eaten for 2 days, FLD could start at any time. If food isn't gotten into him very soon he will have no chance. His lethargy could be from lack of food. 

It may be his time, but with him not eating for two days, you won't know if his behaviour is all illness, or from lack of food. 

If he were mine I'd start syringe feeding him immediately and feed him frequently as he may not eat much at a time. I'd make the decision after syringe feeding him for a couple of days. See how well he takes the food and if he shows improvement with food in his tummy. 

Making the final decision is difficult. Syringe feeding him may not make a difference but IMO, it's always worth a try. When they don't eat they feel yucky which may be partially what you are seeing. 

Hugs


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## SonicsMum (May 23, 2014)

Thank you for the feedback. That's the direction I've been leaning. I have another call in to my vet asking about feeding him. I really don't like the vet but he's the only one within 2 hours of me and Sonic gets so stressed by the car ride and I feel like I'm in up to my neck with this guy.

I was thinking of starting just with a tiny bit of yogurt and then picking up some baby-food for tonight. Is there a certain food they tend to prefer? I will also crush some of his normal kibble in with the mushy food.


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## Draenog (Feb 27, 2012)

Poor guy  I agree with Nancy, I'd try to syringe feed him. Not sure if yoghurt is a good choice since hedgehogs are lactose intolerant. They can have small amounts of yoghurt but I don't know if it would be wise with a sick hedgehog. 
Hills A/D is a good one for sick hedgies, it's easy to syringe feed and gives them a boost.


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

I wouldn't give yogurt. As Draenog mentioned, Hills A/D which you get from the vet is designed for syringe feeding sick animals. 

You can also get any canned cat or kitten food but you have to strain it really well through a fine sieve as the chunks will clog the syringe. Crushing his normal kibble and wetting is fine too.


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## SonicsMum (May 23, 2014)

A quick update. We've done two feelings so far, one baby food mixed with pred (0.8mL total) and one Hills A/D mixed with antibiotic (1.0mL total). He's surprisingly alert for feeding and is happy for the first 0.5mL and then needs coaxing. After feeding he is exhausted but eventually makes his way back into his house which is a change from this morning. We will see what the night brings.


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## Kalandra (Aug 25, 2008)

If he hasn't eaten for a couple of days he may only take a couple of cc's at a time. When they are very ill and taking very little you will need to syringe feed more often. I try to get 1 cc in them for every hour. If they eat 2 cc, you can go 2 hrs, etc. 

Quite often hedgehogs will need coaxing to syringe feed for the first few feeds. They don't really understand what you are doing. Often they will be more receptive once they figure out what is going on.

Monitor his water intake. Dehydration can cause them to be very weak and can kill them very quickly. You can test for dehydration with a pinch test. Take a pinch of skin on their back and gently pull up. If the skin snaps back to normal position quickly, he is hydrated, if it is slow to return he is dehydrated. The best method of fixing dehydration quickly is to get a sub-q injection of fluids. Your vet will have to do this. Otherwise offer him water. If they are very sick, they often won't get up or be able to get up long enough to get a good drink.


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## SonicsMum (May 23, 2014)

Thanks for the volume guidelines. That's helpful. Today he's had 2 feedings - 0.8 Hills mixed with baby food and 0.5 just baby food. I was going to do a full 1.0mL but he had a really good drink before I got him up to feed and didn't want to press my luck. 

He did urinate this AM for the first I've witnessed and the urine isn't as dark as I had feared. His stools are more concerning...super crazy sticky and dark green. But at least he's trying to pass something. 

I'll keep working to get more food in him today. I feel bad waking the poor kid up but tell him it's for his own good ;-)


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

Nancy & Kalandra have been giving you the best advice you can get.  Both of them helped me a lot when my Lily was sick and I was trying to syringe-feed her constantly. The poop sounds like the same as what Lily was having, due to the antibiotics. You might be able to help his GI tract out a little by giving him probiotics. I used acidophilus, bought from a human pharmacy. I just added a decent-sized pinch of it into her food after warming it up & mixed it in before syringing it to her. Good luck with your little guy, I hope he starts improving and eating better for you. I know how stressful it is to try and nurse them when they're feeling crappy.


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

Often we have to be gently forceful and try to persuade them to eat more than they feel like. 

What size of syringe are you using? I usually start out using a 1ml syringe because it is smaller and often is easier to use when hedgie is first learning to be syringe fed. The problem with the 1ml is that for some hedgehogs, moving the syringe from their mouth to refill or even just to grab an already filled syringe, seems to cause them to loose momentum and that's it for trying to get more food into them. For these hedgehogs, I use a 10ml or even a 5 just so I can keep the syringe at their mouth and eating. If you are using a 1ml and find he'es done when it's time to refill, switch to a larger syringe. 

Keep trying. The more food you get into him the better. 

Also leave some of his kibble plus some of the wet food in his bed with him. Often they will eat if it's right there. A very low sided dish works best and if you don't have one, the lid off a small jar will work well as a dish. 
:smile:


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## SonicsMum (May 23, 2014)

An update...he really hates the Hills A/D :-( Satuday I got 11 mLs of "stuff" in him...food, fruit and water. Now that I'm syringe feeding he's stopped drinking on his own. Essentially I'm doing 1mL "food", 1mL water slurried with the food, and 1mL clean water. Today he's had 12mL of "stuff" but half was clean water. 

I'll take him in to the vet tomorrow to see about hydrating him sub-q. He's still so dehydrated and SO weak. I'm really not seeing improvement in his overall health though his poop latest night was much less tar-like. 

He drinks the water pretty easy from the syringe...what's the most you would recommend giving him at a time? I worry about putting too much in his stomach at once...


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## Kalandra (Aug 25, 2008)

That's a hard question as it kinda depends on the hedgehog and the situation. I've had several take as much as 7cc of food in a sitting and watched them get a big drink afterwards. With one I was syringe feeding recently, I was getting 2 cc of food in her initially, and slowly encouraged her to get 4 and 5 in at a sitting. After she would eat, she would take a big drink afterwards. 

You are going to have to use your best judgement. If he is still fairly willingly taking food, give him more. Watch his behavior, they often will tell you when they are full. 

Get him a sub-q and if you are comfortable with needles and the process, ask your veterinarian if you can take a bag of lactated ringers and syringe/needles to do it at home. Sometimes they need more than one injection to get going. Plus, then you aren't using valuable stomach space for water to rehydrate him.


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## SonicsMum (May 23, 2014)

Thank you all for being out there. This has been a super sad and stressful process but it's over now as Sonic has passed away.

My vet was closed Monday and I wasn't able to get an appointment until 4:30 PM today. At 11:00pm last night I cried as I fed him because I sensed a lack of will to survive. Then at 6:00am he seemed better...he took 2mL of food and 4mL of water pretty happily. At 12:00 I came home to give him lunch and he was near his water dish and it looked like he had actually had something to drink on his own for the first time in days. He took another 2mL of food and 4mL of water. At 3:30 my partner came home to get him ready for his vet appointment to get sub-q fluids and the materials for us to continue giving the sub-q fluids and he had passed away.

He was sick and in my opinion "dying" for a full week. I was ready to let him go a week ago but over the weekend I started to let myself hope.

At the end of the day though he did have a confirmed plasma cell tumor and had a lump on his ear removed only 6 weeks before that which wasn't biopsied. I suspect there were more tumors and I know in the end he felt loved.

Hug your hedgie.


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## MomLady (Aug 14, 2010)

I am so sorry to hear he has passed. 
He knew you were helping him and that he was loved and cared for.

Hedgie hugs to you.
Donna


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

I'm so sorry.  Sending hugs & good thoughts to you.


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## Kalandra (Aug 25, 2008)

I'm sorry to read this. I know it doesn't feel very comforting, but you are right, he had cancer and was very sick. You gave him a chance to fight and showed him you cared. Sometimes that is all we can do. Try to focus on the good times you had and not the last few days.


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## SonicsMum (May 23, 2014)

Thanks again

I thought I'd share some photos with you guys since you helped me through his last days.

As a baby









Playing outside









His prize for reaching the finish 









My partner is a talented photographer and I feel lucky we have these photos to share.


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