# Help with behaviour



## vaneau (Jan 25, 2012)

Hello everyone! Although I have been frequenting this site for nearly 8 months now, I have finally registered. I have had so many questions and concerns. Who knows why it took me so long.

Its been about 8 months and Ichi still does not trust me. He hisses and puffs up every time I pick him up. He has made tremendous progress since I got him but I have accepted that he may never trust me.

Because he's still scared I feel like I need to leave him alone. I know that I need to spend more quiet time with him, and I do try. But sometimes its such a downer to come home to something that doesn't want anything to do with you. The two times I tried to give him a bath he tried to hibernate, or at least I thought he did. He would ball up and not move or make any sound. One night I stayed up til 5 in the morning to make sure he was ok. Sure enough, as soon as I put him back in his cage he went about his business and ate and ran on his wheel as normal.

What I need help with:

- *More creative toys* I'm pretty sure he's bored to death. I alternate between his carolina storm bucket wheel thing and his flying saucer. And how long is he supposed to hold interest in those little balls with bells in them? Seriously. Help me come up with some fun toy ideas! Please!

- *Ways to help him bond with me* I talked to a different breeder once, and she told me that when I give him a bath that I should let him "flounder" a little and then pick him up to let him know that he can trust me to save him. But because he tried to hibernate when I gave him a bath before, I am too scared to do this.

- Can you give them too many meal worms? I've read that they may cause blockage

- Sometimes when I pick him up and hold him he won't make any sound or anything and just sit there as I pet him. I get the impression that he's being "lethargic" or something. And I'm worried that he might be sick. Lets face it, these little wonders are the most emotionally and physically demanding. I never know what to expect.

I'm hoping that you guys can give me some helpful insight


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## lehaley (Jun 25, 2011)

I know that it can be really tough to have a pet who acts like he/she doesn't even like you, but keep trying and don't give up. 

Toys: My hedgie Felix wasn't a big fan of the toys that I put in his cage at first. Recently I got him a tube (like plumbing tubing from Home Depot) and he absolutely LOVES hiding out in it and running through it. I also found a rubber dog chew toy at PetCo shaped like a hedgehog that he's absolutely obsessed with. Every morning I wake up and it's been moved to a new spot in his cage. He even tried to drag it into his igloo with him last week. :lol: 

Bonding: I'd say keep doing what you're doing. Sometimes it helps to have a hedgie bag or something for them to hide in if they're sitting on your lap. It makes them feel more relaxed and secure, but at the same time you're spending time with them. As for the mealworms, I know there have been problems with blockages with the freeze dried kind. Hedgies just don't digest them as well. If they're the live worms, I don't think that's been a problem.


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## Immortalia (Jan 24, 2009)

Before we worry about toys and bonding, I'd be much more worried about what you may be doing for your boy to possibly hibernate when you give him a bath. 

What's the temp of the water? His cage? The room that he's in during/after the bath? Do you keep him with you until he dries or do you put him straight back into the cage? Are you sure he is dried fully before you put him back into the cage? Was his tummy cool to the touch? 
Please bear with the questions, more background info is better. And we could even eliminate the suspect hibernation attempts. ^_^


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## CresposCrazyCritters (Jan 26, 2012)

As a breeder myself I recommend to people with fussy hedgehogs to remember not all hedgehogs are going to be dog friendly. Also sometimes hedgehogs bond differently with different people. 
Sitting quietly with a hedgehog sleep sack and just enjoying the quirks and such of your baby. Acceptance is something he will feel. Patience and every night whether he runs to meet you like a dog or not will show him your dedication and love. 

Also I would love to hear more about these hibernation attempts after bathtime... water temp, what you do with him afterwards. Also what is his cage temp normally at? Sometimes a hedgehog that is slightly chilled will continually be fussy as it's in a constant state of fighting hibernation. Just something to think about. I tell my customers to keep their hedgehog at 75 as a minimum.


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

I have cleaned up this thread and am giving notice that if there is any more breeder bashing, warnings will be given and people will be put on moderation. If you have an issue with a breeder, take it up with them personally.


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## lehaley (Jun 25, 2011)

Nancy said:


> I have cleaned up this thread and am giving notice that if there is any more breeder bashing, warnings will be given and people will be put on moderation. If you have an issue with a breeder, take it up with them personally.


Sorry if any of my posts were offensive or something, as they weren't meant to be. I wasn't bashing anyone in particular. I don't think I was even "bashing" anyone, per say. I do however think it's important for people to be aware that they may encounter people who don't have their or their animals' best interests at heart, which is a growing and relevant problem as certain animals become more and more popular. If people researching hedgehogs can't come here and see honest opinions about a particular breeder or things to look out for that may cause them problems, I don't understand how they can possibly make an informed decision about where to purchase a hedgehog. I frankly see no harm with that whatsoever as long as individuals aren't being specifically called out and the comments aren't hostile.


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## moxieberry (Nov 30, 2011)

lehaley said:


> Sorry if any of my posts were offensive or something, as they weren't meant to be. I wasn't bashing anyone in particular. I don't think I was even "bashing" anyone, per say. I do however think it's important for people to be aware that they may encounter people who don't have their or their animals' best interests at heart, which is a growing and relevant problem as certain animals become more and more popular. If people researching hedgehogs can't come here and see honest opinions about a particular breeder or things to look out for that may cause them problems, I don't understand how they can possibly make an informed decision about where to purchase a hedgehog. I frankly see no harm with that whatsoever as long as individuals aren't being specifically called out and the comments aren't hostile.


I agree with this. The purpose of this forum is primarily to provide information to other hedgehog owners, or potential hedgehog owners, and that includes information about both positive and negative experiences with breeders so that new owners can make the best possible choices about where to get their hedgehog from. To simply delete posts that give negative opinions about breeders is counter-productive. I understand that giving names or pointing fingers openly can cause conflict and hurt feelings, but the opinions themselves should be present. Anyone interested to know the exact breeder in question would then be able to ask for the name through private means.

Two months ago when this breeder was discussed - also not specifically named - another moderator did just this. She contacted me by PM to ask which breeder it was that was being discussed, out of interest to keep track of nearby breeders, especially ones that might not be great. That thread, and the opinions stated within it, were not considered "bashing".

I am frankly not impressed with having my post deleted, for several reasons: 1. I very intentionally did not refer to the breeder in question by name. 2. I also did not give any specifics of why I had chosen to not use this particular breeder. 3. The post also included a suggestion for a problem that the OP asked about.

If anyone has any problem with me offering empathy and advice to the OP, feel free to contact me by PM to discuss it. Likewise, if anyone has any problem with my honest opinions - which are as well-informed as possible and never stated in a rude or nasty way - please feel free to contact me by PM as well.


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## vaneau (Jan 25, 2012)

First and foremost I would like to thank everyone for this very important learning experience.

Honestly, I had no idea that even bringing up an issue with a breeder was frowned upon. I look to this forum as a way to inform myself about hedgehogs and to make sure that with that information I can care for one properly. If this issue was freely addressed and discussed I would have selected a different breeder. I am not "breeder bashing" but instead trying to create awareness about this issue. I would like to thank moxieberry for clearing this whole thing up, I agree with you entirely. As for Nancy, I believe that you were looking out for this site and its members. But maybe some slack is warranted.

lehaley - Thank you for the tube idea. I'm going to get one asap. As for the mealies, I give him live ones and he absolutely goes crazy for them. I'm going to continue to see if he likes certain fruits and veggies (with texture, seeds, and safety in mind ) he sometimes likes bananas and mango. But mostly he just smells it and walks away. OH, he LOVES scrambled eggs. Just remembered that I need to go to the store to get more!

immortalia/crespuscrazycritters - The 2 times I gave Ichi a bath I ran the water pretty warm. Not hot (as to not burn his skin) but not lukewarm either. I felt the water with the back of my hand. Next time I will definitely use a thermometer. What temperature should it be at? The first time the bathroom was at room temperature. The second time I brought a space heater in and made the room very warm. Both times I immediately wrapped him up in his hedgie towel and after about an hour, transferred him to his blanket (its a very warm fleece blanket that I got from REI). The first time I moved him to his cage after about an hour and noticed that he was balled up and not hissing. So I immediately freaked out and picked him back up and wrapped him in his blanket. I had my boyfriend microwave one of those bean bag things you put on sore muscles, and put that on my lap under the blanket. Its been a long time since this happened so I don't remember everything exactly. But basically I sat with him til wee hours of the night until he started to move around again. I'm pretty sure I felt his tummy and it was cool. After he started to move around again I turned up the heat in his cage to 78 degrees. Its usually at 74.5 and if its any warmer he will move the the other side of his igloo. Its been about 6 months since I gave him a bath, and I thought I could just not give him one, but I've noticed his skin is getting dry and I think he really needs an aveeno oatmeal bath desperately. But I'm scared.

crespuscrazycritters - Thank you for your insight. I realize that hedgehogs are like people. They might not like you or they may love you. They might be playful, or rather just sleep and eat alone. Some are curious, and some couldn't care less. I realize this, and will try to exude acceptance. Also, I will make it my mission to spend time with him everyday. I work at a bar, and sometimes when I get home at night I just want to melt into my bed. But he needs me. And I him.


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

Earlier in the day, both Kalandra and myself had already addressed breeder bashing in another thread. Interestingly, a new member's first post contains comments about the same breeder that was being discussed in the other thread. Although the breeders name was not mentioned, city and state was and there is only one breeder in that location so it wasn't too difficult for anyone to figure out who the poster was meaning. Even so, at this point there was no problem.

The problem came when people who had been posting in the other thread once again started making remarks against the breeder in this thread. We thought we had already addressed the issue in the other thread. Apparently not, so this thread got cleaned up. 

Although people do need to know who is good and who is not, HHC is not going to be a venue for continual breeder bashing which this seemed to be becoming, based on the number of complaints and reports we received about it.


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## Immortalia (Jan 24, 2009)

It sounds as though you didn't allow him enough time to dry before putting him back into the cage. Normally, I take my boy out at 9pm, but on days I give him a bath, I take him out at 7pm, and he stays with me until 12am. It gives him plenty of time to dry while next to my body heat. And during those few hours, I switch out the wet fleece for a dry one (though initially, I start off with a towel, and then fleece, then fleece, etc until the fleece doesn't go damp). 

If, for whatever reason, I have to put my boy back before I feel he is fully dry, I'll microwave a heat disc and put that on his bed side, and keep the light on longer(to keep him in bed), and move his food bowl close to his bed, or put him into his little kiddie pool with the heat disc. 

As for water temp, it sounds like what you're using is fine. So is the room and cage temp. 

It probably is just that you didn't give him enough time. It could also be because even though you put him back into his house side, he's already fully awake and he wants to eat, drink, make some rounds on the wheel(whether the lights are on or off). I know when I put my boy back into his cage, it doesn't matter what time it is, he will go eat first. And if the lights are on, he'll go back to bed after, if the lights are off, he'll stay out and about. So your boy could easily have gotten chilled while being partially damp.


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## lehaley (Jun 25, 2011)

vaneau said:


> lehaley - Thank you for the tube idea. I'm going to get one asap. As for the mealies, I give him live ones and he absolutely goes crazy for them. I'm going to continue to see if he likes certain fruits and veggies (with texture, seeds, and safety in mind ) he sometimes likes bananas and mango. But mostly he just smells it and walks away. OH, he LOVES scrambled eggs. Just remembered that I need to go to the store to get more!


Felix loves scrambled eggs too. He also goes nuts for hard boiled eggs and different types of meat. Chicken and ground beef are two more of his favorites. Usually if I'm cooking, I'll make a little unseasoned in a separate pan and he goes crazy for it. He doesn't show much interest in most fruits and veggies, at least not the ones I've given him. He'll eat apple occasionally and loves watermelon, but everything else I've tried he'll lick, maybe annoint a little, then ignore. I always think he's just being a bratty little kid who refuses to eat anything healthy. :lol:


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