# Raw meat



## swedish_girl

i have read every were that you should not give your hedgie raw meat.
But for me its easy to say to every one that - No you should not give them raw meat.

But then i get the following question - Why?

I have´d a huge discussion whit a girl today that have going out whit that is bullcrap that you cant give them raw meat.

So my question to you are, what is it that makes that we should not give them raw meat?
and not just chicken now, the whole discussion today here in sweden is about raw mincemeat.

Why not feed whit raw mincemeat ???


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## silvercat

I'd go with the same reason you don't give humans raw meat - the bacteria that may be in the meat


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## hedgielover

Hedgehogs have not evolved to eat raw meat. Wild hedgehogs for the most part would not be eating raw animal meat such as chicken, beef or mince meat. For this reason they are not like dogs or cats (who can handle raw meat). Fresh raw insects are very different from other meats and would not be contaminated with the same bacteria. Raw meat will cause intestinal upset and could kill a hedgehog.


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## swedish_girl

well i have tryied to explain that but everytime they say
well why not most of the people feed there hedgies whit muspinki and thats raw meat...


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## gyaku

There will always be people finding ways to make them self sound right, for raw meat generally you have to worry about many bacteria. One example is Salmonela(did I spell it right?) Which has been know for killing people and animals alike for many decades, however keep in mind that dogs evolved from wolves, which have a much larger tolerance for Salmonela, and their white blood cells have adapted to dealing with it fast enough to kill the bacteria before it causes any major harm. Hedgehogs are insectivores, meaning they eat bugs, NOT RAW MEAT!!! Raw bug meat is usually protected by an exoskeleton that many kinds of bacteria has a hard time getting through this, hence why bugs don't have to be cooked. Meat(like us, chickens, cows, pigs, ect.) Don't have an exoskeleton and bateria is all around us, in the air we breath and in the food we eat. It is why we are told to cook meat till it reaches an internal temperature of 75C (160F), its the temperature where most deadly bacteria is killed, or left in small enough numbers at which cause no harm what so ever. What I do with my chicken is cook it, if there is some left over put it in the fridge, then microwave it for 1-2mins (depending on the size of chicken) then feed it to Sonic. Though I have yet to try meat with him, I am wondering if he would be like his father (me) and like turkey.


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## hedgielover

gyaku, on top of dogs having an immune system built to deal with bacteria in meat they also have a short digestive track that allows the meat to be digested faster, this means whatever bacteria is in the meat comes out as waste and does not have time to harm the animal.


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## PixiesExoticHedgies

Actually it is untrue to state that wild hedgehogs do not eat raw meat. 
http://www.wildlifetrust.org.uk/facts/hedge.htm
Wild hedgies have been known to eat small fish, snakes, etc. Wild and/or Pet hedgies are also canaballists and they eat their young....raw. However when this happens, the meat is typically "fresh" and less likely to carry common bacteria found in "packaged" raw meats.

*Here is a link to a Google search: "can hedgehogs eat raw meats?"* There are plenty of "opinions" posted within these weblinks:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=can+hedgehogs+eat+raw+meats&aq=f&oq=&aqi=


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## LizardGirl

Hedgehogs _can_ eat raw meat, the question is _should_ they? Weigh the pros and cons carefully before deciding to offer something like raw chicken or pinky mice. Considering the risks, I would not.


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## PixiesExoticHedgies

LizardGirl said:


> Hedgehogs _can_ eat raw meat, the question is _should_ they? Considering the risks, I would not.


Well said LG. 
*I agree.*


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## hedgielover

PixiesExoticHedgies said:


> Actually it is untrue to state that wild hedgehogs do not eat raw meat.
> http://www.wildlifetrust.org.uk/facts/hedge.htm
> Wild hedgies have been known to eat small fish, snakes, etc. Wild and/or Pet hedgies are also canaballists and they eat their young....raw. However when this happens, the meat is typically "fresh" and less likely to carry common bacteria found in "packaged" raw meats.
> 
> *Here is a link to a Google search: "can hedgehogs eat raw meats?"* There are plenty of "opinions" posted within these weblinks:
> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=can+hedgehogs+eat+raw+meats&aq=f&oq=&aqi=


I realize that hedgehogs in the wild do eat some fresh raw meat. However I was under the impression that this was not a common source of food and was more likely to be eaten by larger European hedgehogs. This does not mean they have evolved to eat it. Essentially they are insectivores therefore it is unnecessary as well as dangerous to feed raw meat, pinkie mice etc.


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## HedgeMom

They are insectivores by classification, dietarily they are omnivores and are capable of eating fresh raw meat. The issue is "fresh". A pinky mouse is fresh. It's not going to have any contamination. Raw minced beef is not fresh unless you've just whacked it off the cow hanging in the barn. The chance for contamination is great. 

That said, millions feed raw diets to dogs, cats, ferrets, etc without issue. There is some discussion regarding freezing raw meat to first make it more safe (I'm pretty sure that a lot of things survive freezing) but most raw feeders believe that the animal develops an ability to handle the minor contaminations. 

There is no other reason to not feed raw minced beef to a hedgehog. Know that you are risking your hedgehog's health (but don't we all do that in the choices we make?) and you may end up with a very sick hog but you might not. It's the chance you take.


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## hedgielover

I really disagree. There is nothing they are going to get from Raw meat that they cannot get elsewhere. Why risk it? 

I am in favour of raw diets for cats and dogs because they evolved to be hunters they have been eating raw meat for ever (and not necessarily fresh, when a cat kills it's prey it will be eaten within the day, maybe, but certainly left long enough to be contaminated). These animals have evolved to handle whatever bacteria is in the meat, dogs for instance have antibacterial properties in their saliva, have anti bodies built up to fight diseases carried in meat, and have a short digestive track. Hedgehogs have not evolved in the same way, just because wild European hedgehogs can handle the occasional mouse, small bird or snack does not mean that our African pygmy pets will be able to. As I said why risk it? what would be the purpose?


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## HedgeMom

hedgielover said:


> just because wild European hedgehogs can handle the occasional mouse, small bird or snack does not mean that our African pygmy pets will be able to. As I said why risk it? what would be the purpose?


I also said it was risky, if you read my entire post.

For the record, dogs and cats are no more capable of handling bacteria contamination than humans are. They don't have protective saliva. Most healthy humans can handle some salmonella, some e. coli, some giardia in their food and water supply. It's when a body become immunocompromised that trouble starts.

And the "APH" is a hybrid from wild strains of hedgehogs who do eat meat in the wild. They are opportunistic eaters and have no qualms about eating baby birds, eggs, lizards, worms or anything else that doesn't outrun them.

Years ago when hedgehogs first became available in the pet market, there was a huge misunderstanding about diet and many were regularly fed raw eggs, etc. in the belief that that was the best diet for them. In the 16 years that I've owned hedgehogs a great deal has changed in the dietary recommendations yet we really aren't any closer to knowing the exact nutritional requirements of hedgehogs. No one has bothered to really study them.

So we don't know if there is some micro nutrient or amino acid in raw meat that might be needed by a hedgehog that isn't available in a commercially prepared kibble and cooked treats. That could very well be the reason they aren't as long-lived as they used to be. That c could very well be the reason we are seeing more cancers and tumors. There just isn't any way to know.


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## soprano

It is my understanding that raw meat is a poor food choice due to the increased risk of salmonella to the human pet owner.


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