# White around quills



## r_k_chic47 (Aug 28, 2008)

So I've noticed that with the quills on Pepper's sides and "forehead" quills, there is a white ring around them. He does have dry skin but this white is different than "dryness" white because it doesnt look like a flake, but just like the skin is white in that spot. I don't get why its only on his sides and forehead, but it is. Any ideas what this could be?


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## r_k_chic47 (Aug 28, 2008)

I have some pictures now, if they help. The first one I think is the clearest. I was surprised it turned out so good, and it really shows the white spots well.



















I hope these help!


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## r_k_chic47 (Aug 28, 2008)

NOBODY has any idea what this is? I know it's not normal. Please, any help is appreciated.

IDK if this has any relevance, but he has been eating less lately. Back in September, he was eating 70-90 kibbles a night, and now its only 30-50. I don't have a scale, unfortunately, because all the ones I've seen were over $40.


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## shmurciakova (Sep 7, 2008)

That does look odd, although it does not look like mites to me. I suggest you take your hedgehog in for a skin scraping. It could be some kind of fungus...have you tried scratching it off? Is it hard or does it just come right off? I know it might cost a little money, but you really ought to go to the vet and get some treatment for whatever it is. :| 
-Susan


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## r_k_chic47 (Aug 28, 2008)

Actually the areas with white spots (on the sides and forehead) aren't dry. I've been putting flaxseed oil on his back and putting it on his food once a week, so he doesn't have very dry skin as of right now. I did do a scraping myself a while back(using a butterknife to scrape flakes of dry skin onto a piece of black paper) and a lot of flakes came off then, but I didn't see any moving, even with a magnifying glass. I also did another one recently but couldn't get any flakes. The white spots aren't hard, they're the same texture as the rest of his skin, if not thinner.


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## r_k_chic47 (Aug 28, 2008)

Well, thanks for the help, shmurciakova... I wish more people would pitch in but maybe I just need more, better pictures. There are areas on him that have a lot more white than in the pictures I have posted, so I'll try to get more.


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## shmurciakova (Sep 7, 2008)

To me it looks like some sort of calcification, but if it isn't dry and it does not flake off, are you sure it isn't just the color of his skin? I had a white hedgehog so all of her skin was the same color.
I still say to go in to the vet for a scraping, but maybe posting more pictures would be helpful.
Good luck,
Susan H.


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## LizardGirl (Aug 25, 2008)

I honestly don't have a clue what it is. My best guess would be some fungus or buildup of some sort...


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## r_k_chic47 (Aug 28, 2008)

No, it's not the color of his skin. The rest of his skin is black, its just these areas that have white spots. I don't think it's possible to have a spotted-skinned hedgehog, other than the mottling on his legs. and even then, thats pink skin with brown spots - not black skin with white spots. So I really don't know :| 
Some more pics will be in order I guess.


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

I have no clue but a vet visit would be a good idea, especially since his appetite is declining.


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## r_k_chic47 (Aug 28, 2008)

Okay, here are the new pictures. There are a lot so bear with me. These are much better. I've taken pictures of the skin on his back (which is normal), and of the skin on his sides and forehead, to show you the huge difference. I got his quills wet first, so that when I moved them out of the way, they stayed where I moved them. So in the "normal skin" picture, the white you're seeing is just the water reflecting off the flash from my camera.

*What the skin on his back looks like (the normal skin):*









*Sides & forehead:*


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

Awesome pictures. I have no clue what it is.


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## PixiesExoticHedgies (Sep 4, 2008)

appears to 'possibly' be fungal ....???....
but it definitely is time to *take your hedgie to the VET, for a professional diagnosis*.


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## r_k_chic47 (Aug 28, 2008)

Ok, I'm making an appointment right now. I just wanted to get other people's opinions first.


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## shetland (Sep 2, 2008)

Let us know how Pepper makes out at the vet.


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## r_k_chic47 (Aug 28, 2008)

Well, I took Pepper to the vet yesterday. I got him weighed and he was 390g, which sounded like a healthy weight to me. Anyways, the vet came in and asked me some questions, and then he used a cotton swab type thing to get some skin cells from Pepper's skin. He then put it on a slide and looked at it under a microscope, but found nothing out of the ordinary. So next, he did a skin scraping. I decided against using drugs to keep him calm (I don't remember what its called, but it would've costed a lot extra). So the vet was holding him and trying to move the quills out of the way to get a good spot to use the blade on, but he got impatient and decided to pull out some of Pepper's quills! I couldn't bear to watch, I knew he must have been in pain, and I almost started crying at the sight of it. Anyways, he did the skin scraping, but still found nothing. He said the next step would be to do another VERY expensive test and send it in to a Michigan University, but he suspected that all Pepper had was a "vitamin c deficiency", which just means he wasn't getting enough fruits and vegetables.
In conclusion, I really wish I would've knew that before I spent $70 to find that out! But it's better to be safe than sorry. Thanks to everyone who tried to help out here =)


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## shetland (Sep 2, 2008)

How does he know its not bacteria or fungus?


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## r_k_chic47 (Aug 28, 2008)

He said he didn't see any bacteria when he looked at the skin scraping under a microscope.


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## hndspk (Aug 28, 2008)

I dont know much about things like this, but in the pictures it almost looks like the white areas are swollen. Almost like they're pus pockets. Maybe it's just the lighting though...


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## spoogysprouts (Nov 26, 2008)

He PULLED out your hedgie's quills?  I would have freaked out on the doctor. What an a-hole! o my gosh. I agree with hndspk, they do look kind of like pus pockets. Buut if a skin scraping and everything was done and nothing popped I guess they can't be. It look like it might be fungal tho. I hope he gets better  keep us updated <3


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## hedgieMate (Aug 28, 2008)

I haven't had enough experience in hedgehog ailments, but the "white rings" in the photos above don't look normal to me. Could it be a bacterial, fungal, or yeast infection as suggested?

My understanding is that scraping itself cannot necessarily determine whether your hedgie has a bacterial, fungal, or yeast infection on the spot - the vet needs to culture what's collected by a skin scraping. Did you vet do that? If he hasn't, I don't think you can effectively rule out a bacterial, fungal, or yeast infection (please feel free to correct me here if I'm wrong).



spoogysprouts said:


> He PULLED out your hedgie's quills? I would have freaked out on the doctor.


I freaked out just by reading it! :shock: Honestly, that's not standard veterinary practice. We once had a vet who used a pair of surgical scissors to pry open our hedgie's mouth. She held the scissors shut and tried to insert the flat side between his teeth, but sheesh, what if she had broken his teeth or poked his eye with the pointy tips by accident? She was supposed to be an exotic animal specialist with a plenty of hedgehog experience, but we never went back to her. We just couldn't trust anyone who treats an animal that way. You may want to seek a second opinion by a more hedgie-savvy vet. For your hedgie's sake, I hope it's nothing serious and it goes away naturally. Good luck!


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

As hedgiemate has mentioned the skin scraping and the quills should have been sent out to be tested to see if bacteria or fungus will grow. Looking under the microscope is not enough. 

When my Emma was having the massive quill loss and horrid dry skin, the vet did pull a few of her quills but Em was gassed at the time. I can't imagine pulling quills while they are awake.


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## r_k_chic47 (Aug 28, 2008)

I know, I couldn't even watch. And it seemed like he didn't even care that he was hurting my little guy, he just used a surgical tweezers thing and ripped 2 or 3 quills out, without any anesthesia (I didn't know that he was gonna pull quills out when I requested not to use anesthesia.)! I figured he knew what he was doing but I guess he was just so impatient that he decided to do it.  He mentioned that since their vet's office hasn't done much research on hedgie skin diseases, that it would be a good idea to do another test and send it in to a Michigan University for them to check it out, but it would have costed a TON more and I just want to see if giving more fruits and veggies will help. If it doesn't clear up soon, I guess that would be my only choice, to do the next test. Hedgiemate, this might be a stupid question, but what does it mean to culture what was collected from the skin scraping?


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## Zalea (Sep 12, 2008)

A culture is a little container that has a special gel kind of stuff in it that bacteria can grow in if it's there. The doctor/vet will take a sample from the patient (like swabbing the area) then spread it onto the gel. If it's an infection, the type of bacteria that grows over the next few days will show what kind of infection it is. It's the same kind of thing the doctor does if they think you have strep throat. (Here's a much more detailed wikipedia article about it if I totally botched explaining that: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacteria_culture.)

As for him pulling out quills, I think I would've been over there pulling the doctor's hair out! I think if I were you and going back to him for more tests, I would have him tell me step by step what he wants to do before he does it. Yes, it'll probably be a little irritating to him, but you're the owner and should be able to authorize or decline any treatment he's wanting to give... I'd also start thinking about seeing a different vet, if possible.

I hope Pepper starts feeling better soon!!! Best wishes for him!


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## shetland (Sep 2, 2008)

Was it ever determined the cause of the white about your hedgie's quills?


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## Grouchyhog (Jan 21, 2009)

Oscar has that, but his is more noticable because his skin is dark grey.
And the white spots are soft and...normal like the rest of his skin, but every few quills, I'll find a white spot


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## AprilD (Jan 15, 2009)

My suggestions: Go to a more experienced vet. Get a culture done. Yes it costs money but hopefully less in the long run than repeat vet visits and letting him get any worse.


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## r_k_chic47 (Aug 28, 2008)

Yeah, I think a different vet needs to be found. This one was the only one that was within my 40-50 mile range that treated hedgehogs, but they did recommend me to another veterinarian in Grand Rapids (about 45-60 minutes from where I am) so maybe I'll check them out. Grouchyhog, did you take your hedgehog to the vet and find out what he had?

EDIT: for future reference, I think the Ottawa Animal Hospital should be taken off of the "recommended vets for hedgehogs" list. That's the one I took my hedgehog to, and I had found it from that list, but they really don't have much experience with them and they're the ones who pulled quills out of my little one without my consent.


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## nrobic01 (Jun 14, 2012)

DId you ever figure out what was going on? Did feeding more fruits/veggies help?

Wondering because I just noticed two white spots on my hedgie similar to these...


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## nikki (Aug 28, 2008)

Please check the date on the threads before posting, this thread was last posted two on January 29, 2009 and that member hasn't been around for awhile.


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## nrobic01 (Jun 14, 2012)

Thank you. I saw the date but I'm desperate and saw the thread was never resolved. Will look elsewhere.


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## nikki (Aug 28, 2008)

maybe start your own thread about it and post pictures?


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