# Wild Caught Beetles



## Brooke Lancelot (Jan 30, 2019)

My cousin (the one who inspired me to get a Hedgie) is feeding hers wild Beetles she catches around her house...as a treat since she doesn't like mealworms. 

Now I know that it isn't a good idea because the wild bugs might have bacteria or something and it can go over to your hog when they eat it. 

Is it bad for them or am I just worrying too much about the safety of her hog? Should I just let her continue with it, or try to tell her its not good, and she should try to get other insects from a shop?


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

Tell her its not good. You dont know what parasites they may have that they could pass onto the hedgehog, some can make them very ill. Also you know know what plants they have eaten, if they have eaten a plant that has some kind of toxic spray to try keep bugs off, then that will get into the hogs system and make the hedgehog sick or even kill them.
Never give hedgehogs insects that you have caught from the wild. Its best to only feed insects that have been bred as feeder food. Mealworms are not the only insects available so just because the hedgehog doesn't like mealworms doesnt mean they wont another insect thats been bred as feeder food thats gonna be safe for them. Most insects for reptiles are perfectly safe and much enjoyed by hedgehogs.


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## Brooke Lancelot (Jan 30, 2019)

Thank you. I'll definitely tell her. When I did research on Igor's insects, I had every possible feeder insect on my list, just as a back up plan if he didn't like the mealworms. 
I'll tell her, but too be fairly honest, I don't know what the chances are that she'll listen to me. But, I'll try lol


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

Well if she doesn't listen I feel sorry for the poor hedgehog. 
They should have a wide verity of insects anyway, weather they like mealworms or not.
In the end if she gets a really sick hedgehog after you told you and turns out to be some parasite, or the toxic chemicals from a spray to prevent bugs eating plants that never really work, the vet is gonna ask how she got it, and the vet will just tell her themat she never should have done it. Then you can think to yourself "I told you so" I dont what shes like to say you could actually say it her.


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## Brooke Lancelot (Jan 30, 2019)

I can only have mealworms and their evolved states, my mom doesn't like all the other possible insects 😂 she was ok with the worms, and I don't want to push my luck by asking if I can get raoches too 

And she's the kind of person to spit venom in my face if I tell her 'I told you so' but I'll still try... If she doesn't listen, I might try talking to her mom, but her moms the same as her so... Trying.


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## Emc (Nov 18, 2018)

I agree with Ria; feeding wild insects isnt a great idea, because they could be absolutely riddled with parasites that they could therefore pass on to the hedgehog consuming them (and if that isn't enough to put her off; well, those parasites if passed on to the hedgehog will cause a hefty vet bill heading her way).

With regard to your mother only allowing mealworms; Would you be allowed to get canned insects?.... Being largely insectivores, they really do need a variety of insects in their diet. And while dried insects are best avoided, canned insects are perfectly fine because they're still moist.


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

Oh dear, I think that the you should tell them both, its going to be far cheaper to just buy the proper feeder insects than pay for the extremely costly vet bills to try help the hedgehog and then still possible end up loosing her.

If shes alright with the mealworms and their evolved states you could possibly try calciworms or grubs as they would be like the worms. I believe that the grubs can be fairly fatty too tough, and there are other beetles out there you could ask your mum about trying.

My mum didn't want ANY insects in her house I convinced her with canned insects though, but they can be more expensive than getting them live. After a few months, of asking and explaining all the benefits and that, she said as long as she doesn't see them and I dont loose any and I dont get worms and she never has to deal with them, then she'll grudging allow it. I had to start slow taking baby steps. When I did convince her to let me get mealworms to try, Holly didn't like them so they were binned fast.
At least you got one insect after asking about different ones so at least you got something so far.

I have to gut load and freeze all insects as my mum can cope with that but not keeping them alive, we've got two freezers though so one is now Holly's insect freezer and the other is the main one used for things we eat so she just stays outa that freezer and when they are gut loading I have them hidden in a box that has my name on so she knows not to touch it. 
Took me 5 months to get all the insects she now gets.


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## Brooke Lancelot (Jan 30, 2019)

That's alot of compromising on your mom's part 😂 poor thing must be scared to death of insects. My moms fine with anything, as long as it just doesn't fly, or evolve into something that can. 

And I'll look into the canned insects then. But if it gets too pricy, I'll have to get them live and such. I have baby mealworms btw, yay! I want to try that orange woodlice thing Ria talked about. I'll ask the petshop if they have any, or what they do have other than mealworms. 

And preferably I want something with more protein than fat, butterworms have alot of fat, gosh. I considered them when Igor was underweight, just to get his weight up, but since the wheel was removed for a solid two months, (now I got a new one) he gained weight and looks pretty healthy now. If he does loose weight again though, I might try butterworms seeing as his fat percentage can't keep up with his activity levels. 

For now, he's doing ok. I wanted to try dobia roaches but they're big, and my mom hates roaches. So worms, and Non flying beetles work. I don't want superworms since those bite, and you need to chop the head off if you don't want them to bite, and I don't think I'd be able to handle doing that 😅


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

She has done a lot of compromising, Most my insects come pre gut loaded - well except the orange woodlice, so most just go right into the freezer now
You dont want morioworms either then, apprently they bite.
Roaches aren't actually too bad if you put them in the freezer for like 15 mins to stun them they a lot easier to handle. They arent that big. Males grow wings but the dont actually fly.
How about crickets ?? The main problem with them is noise.
Butter worms arent that high in fat around 5-6% depending where you look and food and around 16% protein depending in size and food


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## Emc (Nov 18, 2018)

Ria said:


> How about crickets ?? The main problem with them is noise.


I disagree haha; i find with the crickets marketed as 'silent', the noise isnt really bad at all. It's pretty quiet, and tolerable. The _smell_ though... by far the worst part about crickets! I swear no matter how much I clean them out, they stink to me. So much so that I'm genuinely debating taking my girl off live crickets and just giving her occasional canned instead. I hate them!

OP: Are you in the US?... I find that it's difficult to find a local store that sells woodlice (unless you go to a reptile-specific store, and even then it can be difficult) because they're mostly used as part of a clean up crews vs feeders (though theyre totally safe to use as feeders!). If you're in the US, Josh's Frogs sells them and appears to ship nationwide.

I totally hate giant dubia roaches, and they freak me out. But I order my girl the medium size, and they honestly arent that bad. You can also get small ones but theyre super quick; still, the smaller the roach, the longer it's going to take before the grow into giants haha - so you'll have plenty of time to feed them off.

Canned is more expensive than live; I just suggested doing down the canned route, because usually parents are much more willing to let insects into their house if theyre dead haha - and it'd be much better for Igor to have more variety in his diet vs just having mealworms.


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

Oh my god no if you complaining about the smell from live crickets you seriously will hate the smell of opening the can !! My god I'd rather deal with live crickets. I will agree that the ones that are "silent" aren't as loud. But some people still find it a little loud so I guess that depends on the person. I dont keep them alive long though, but they dont smell nearly as bad once they are frozen as the canned ones smell. 

I only use medium roaches, though sometimes I get larger ones in the boxes. I had one with wings once it super confused me I had to google it😂 she ate the whole thing, wings and everything !! It was dead though.. so It didnt freak me out too much. I had a little baby roach once as well, it was so little !! 

Some places have online stores where you can buy pre gut loaded and frozen insects. They are slightly better than canned to be honest. You generally get more for the money too. Its still not as cheap as live, but its not too bad of prices generally.
I looked into this as an option for if I couldn't get my mum to let me have them live for a day before putting in the freezer and killing.


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## Brooke Lancelot (Jan 30, 2019)

I thought frozen insects aren't good for hogs? 
Sorry, maybe I'm just not understanding you correctly. They said that frozen insects can mess up the digestive system, and they don't have any more nutrients.


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

Dried and freeze-dried are bad normal frozen insects are okay. Theres a huge difference between the two processes as freeze-dried get dried and frozen making them loose all nutrients. Where as if its been gut loaded and just put into a freezer its perfectly okay. If its juts frozen insects then it still contains all nutrients, where as freeze-dried don't.

Like I get all my live, gut load them for 24hours then put them in the freezer for 48 hours to ensure they are dead. Then just thaw them out 20-15 mins before giving them to holly. Thats frozen insects.


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## Brooke Lancelot (Jan 30, 2019)

Ohhhh OK. Well, my grandma will definitely not allow me to put insects in the freezer 😂 but my mom said I can get more insects if I want. 
So now I just have to choose which insects.


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

See your gonna need to get most live. As once canned insects are opened they need to be kept in a fridge and lat 1-2 weeks depending on brand and the insect and they last longer if you take them out the can and put them in the freezer.

We have a small fridge freezer so I just use that freezer as no one else does. Its now known as Holly's insects freezer😂


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## Brooke Lancelot (Jan 30, 2019)

Waxworms, Hornworms and Silkworms. 

These three I wanna try to get. 

Any advice?


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

Waxworms and silkworms I know are easy to look after much like mealworms are. Although their approx fat is quit high. 
The hornworms I've never actually heard of before so I'm not really sure.
You seem to always go for very high fat insects though.

Locusts are good low fat but high protein insects, grab them by their back legs it paralyses them to make it easier to feed
Silent brown crickets are quieter than normal crickets the and low in fat and good for protein. I believe if grab them by their legs its easier for feeding. But as said they can smell a bit.


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## Brooke Lancelot (Jan 30, 2019)

Well, the waxworms are high in fat, the silkworms are high in protein and the hornworms are high in calcium. I tried to pick it off of that 😅 

Oh... Goodness I just googled Locusts and I don't think I wanna have those. I'm extremely scared of grasshoppers 😂 

My mom isn't so fond of the cricket idea, but I might try, might. My uncle has crickets for his tarantula so, I might, like, try one from his group and give it to Igor as a test run. Im not sure


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## Emc (Nov 18, 2018)

I would recommend attempting dubia roaches, if you can. I feed mealworms, waxworms (as a treat - and they don’t last long before they turn to moths either), black soldier fly larvae (they’re also marketed as Phoenix Worms - I don’t believe that CalciWorms are the same as they are here in the US; I think you guys fortify them with extra calcium, so they’re not safe), giant orange woodlice, dubia, and silent crickets - all alive. Occasionally I feed canned snails, or canned grasshoppers but like mentioned they have to be kept refrigerated and they don’t last an awful long time, so I use them as the occasional added treat for variety vs being a staple. I don’t actually think you’re allowed live locusts in the states (much like live hornworms aren’t generally allowed over here)... but I could be wrong! 

I would 100% choose dubia over crickets, all day any day haha. They don’t smell really at all - and their GA is far superior too!


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## Brooke Lancelot (Jan 30, 2019)

Aren't dubias huge though? Igor has a very tiny mouth. And I'm 100% sure he's legally blind, I have to put the worms in his food bowl in order for him to get it. 
I can try dubias. They're common here, so I'm sure I won't have a problem with finding them at stores. 
I can try crickets aswell.


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

They can a large roach no problem honestly. They can eat any large insect no problem. I mean they can eat day old mouses and chicks - meat guts and bones with no problem - not as fast as a insect but they still eat them no problem.


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## Brooke Lancelot (Jan 30, 2019)

*shivers* ok then... I might try dubias.


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

I was like that the first time I heard about it😂 You buy the day old mouse or chick frozen, and then (most people) just leave it out to defrost that day, chuck it in the cage with them and run, the next day do a full clean of the cage wearing latex gloves😂 they can have them like once a month
Large Dubais are nothing compared to this !!

I have never done this with Holly it grosses me out a but too much to deal with.

They can eat baby giant african land snails too. Shells and everything.


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## Brooke Lancelot (Jan 30, 2019)

Omg I've heard they do it in the wild, I never imagined the pygmy's do it too! Omw 

I wonder what Igor would do... Now I'm tempted to test it out...help me 😂


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

Go for it, if you can find them theres nothing wrong in trying if you can handle it. He'll probably love you for it


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## Brooke Lancelot (Jan 30, 2019)

😂😂 what if he anoints with the blood! Omg... Do they eat the bones too? Tail? Eyes? Gawd... I wanna try it but I don't want to at the same time. Will he know its food though? Oof, I'll try to get one frozen baby mouse or something.


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

A lot do, you just was it off. And they eat the whole lot. He'll know, you dont cut it up of anything just put it whole in the cage.
The bones are really soft as they aren't developed properly yet as they are only days old. 
They are pretty cheap most times you can get them at a shop that sells reptile shops or look at online reptile shops.


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## Brooke Lancelot (Jan 30, 2019)

Goodness, I cant wrap my head around it. Its hard to imagine, but I'm seriously interested. So I'll try and update you 😂


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

I was going to try it at some point. But then I didn't think I'd be able to face it after as I get a little funny with blood. But I want to try it haha
If I put it in her cage with her to eat it when I put her back It'd be on camera too😂


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## Brooke Lancelot (Jan 30, 2019)

Would you dare to watch the footage? 😂


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

No I don't think I would😂


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## HedgeMomma (Dec 11, 2017)

Dude. I am an entomologist and I'll tell you straight - insects are basically just a sack of goo with a thin candy shell, and they are petri dish hosts for EVERYTHING. Fungus, worms, mites, ugh. I won't even give mine feeder insects until I've fed them myself for at least 24 hours to clear their gut tract of whatever nonsense they might have picked up. 

On the upside, Bob Costas (I'm not good at naming things) LOVES banana-flavored crickets lol


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## Kalandra (Aug 25, 2008)

HedgeMomma said:


> Dude. I am an entomologist and I'll tell you straight - insects are basically just a sack of goo with a thin candy shell, and they are petri dish hosts for EVERYTHING. Fungus, worms, mites, ugh. I won't even give mine feeder insects until I've fed them myself for at least 24 hours to clear their gut tract of whatever nonsense they might have picked up.
> l


Pretty much this. I still get creeped out by grasshoppers. Nasty wormy creatures.

And on a funny note, since you mentioned banana flavored crickets, I have a girl who won't eat mealworms if I have fed them apple. Carrot, peppers, etc fine, apple equals "Nope not touching those they have been tainted with food I don't like".


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## Brooke Lancelot (Jan 30, 2019)

Oh wow that's so weird 😂 

So no apple flavoured mealies, I can't believe they know the difference 😂


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## Kalandra (Aug 25, 2008)

She has always been food driven, so when she started to turn her nose up to her mealworms, I started to explore possible health problems. We couldn't see anything wrong. I went to feed the mealworm colony one day and it dawned on me that I threw an apple in last time. Once the mealworms had fed on carrot for a few days she started eating her mealworms without gusto again.


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## Brooke Lancelot (Jan 30, 2019)

I don't know if I would've thought of the apple being the cause. 
I'm glad you realized that.


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

Brooke, I think you should try giving a day old frozen mouse (also called pinkies) to Igor. Apparently it can help them with cleaning teeth - I read it about last night, and plus it gives them a bit more extra enrichment !! Its also good for calcium, though it is pretty fatty
I decided that I might give Holly one at some point probably after I've got her weight down and stabled. 

Also haha some hedgehogs dont notice the tastes, and others do. But I never have a problem since Holly loved most the safe veg and I haven't tired with much safe fruits but all the ones I have shes loved.


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## Brooke Lancelot (Jan 30, 2019)

Day old mouse, got it. Today I'm going to a reptile pet shop, so I'm gonna be making a list of everything I wanna ask and what they have in stock. 
I'll ask for a pinkie, and if Igor likes it, then I'll get him one every month. 
I'm also gonna ask for Dubia Roaches and what feeder insects they have. 
Thanks for sharing what you've learned with me! I appreciate it greatly!


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

The only real down side is they anoint with them and put the blood on their quills. But I guess It'll just to be washed/wiped out.


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## Brooke Lancelot (Jan 30, 2019)

;-; yay... Ok I'll wait before bathing Igor until after giving him the mouse 😂


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

Yes defiantly do that !! You'll want to plan a full cage clean this day too !!


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

Oh also they do two different weights of pinkies 1-2g and 3-4g. The smaller is a lot more fatty.

I'm going to use the 3-4g pinkie as it wont be as fatty.


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## Brooke Lancelot (Jan 30, 2019)

I just came from the shop. They do have pinkies... But... Uh... They're alive. So I backed out on the idea immediately. 

I couldn't. I just couldn't. If I were to buy that mouse, I would've kept it warm and raised it! I can't, if I am to feed Igor a pinkie, it needs to be dead. Goodness no, they're so small and delicate! I can't. Nope nope nope.


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

In the Uk you can only buy them frozen to be fed to animals.
To be honest though If I wasnt able to get them frozen I'd find cage and keep it just like you !!

Do you have any online reptile shops ?? You could look for frozen mice.

They can have 
1-2g pinkies - They are super tiny, like a mouthful to them.
3-4g pinkies - These are a lot better size wise, but still a bit small. 
4-6 fuzzies - These are a lot larger than the pinkies and not every hedgehog will eat these ones as they are a fair bit larger than the pinkies. But most hogs have no problems with them.

The larger they the less fatty they are.


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## Brooke Lancelot (Jan 30, 2019)

Thank you, I'll go see if there are any online for sale. 
I'm sure I saw something about frozen baby mice on one place when I went to look for different feeder insects. 
And I'll look for 3-4g pinkies, since they seem the best.


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

I'm going to use 15g mice as Holly doesn't beed to gain any weight so this is the better one to use for her. They can have up to 25g mice !! And they eat the whole lot !! Bones fur and everything.

I think its easier finding things like frozen mice online, only thing is that most places sell them in packs online


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## Brooke Lancelot (Jan 30, 2019)

Wow, ew but interesting. Blegh 😂


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

Haha another thing I learned about the mice
0-5 grams is around 27% fat.
5-10 grams is around 17% fat.
And 10-15 grams is around 7% fat.


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## Brooke Lancelot (Jan 30, 2019)

27 is quite a bit. Ok I'll have to make sure about Igor's weight balance before deciding on which mouse to get.


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

I know, I thought it would help you for figuring out which mouse to give, its helped me thats for sure

I think for Holly I'll be using a 15g mouse as its lower in fat and she doesn't need to gain more weight.


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## Brooke Lancelot (Jan 30, 2019)

It did help, I appreciate it. 

And I wish you luck with your cleaning duties. 😂


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

Well she's had a cage clean today. So her next one will be next weekend so I think I'll try her on one next weekend hopefully my pet shop has one. Otherwise she'll be waiting longer for them.


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## Brooke Lancelot (Jan 30, 2019)

You're lucky you only get frozen ones. Imagine my shock when they threw a live baby mouse on the table. Picture's still in my head, haunting me


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

Well its illegal to feed live things like that to animals in the UK. So legally selling it as feeder mice it has to be frozen.


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## Aj.t (Jan 29, 2019)

The circle of life fam


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## Brooke Lancelot (Jan 30, 2019)

Ugh lucky you. I kinda wanna move to the UK now 😂


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