# Need advice on how to limit food for overweight hedgie



## lmg_319 (Oct 4, 2010)

So I've posted a few times about Holden's weight, but he has finally assumed the round shape and he is starting to become overweight. He eats CSFCLS and Performatrin Ultra Slim Care so he is on low fat foods. He eats 2 tbsp a night (only 3-5 kibbles left over in the morning). How do I limit his food? I don't want him to go hungry. He gets maybe 1-2 mealies every few nights. Should I just start with 1.5 tbsp a night now?


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## susanaproenca (Aug 14, 2010)

When I took fat Pete to the vet in December, my vet told me to see how much she would normally eat, and cut down 20%. 

She was eating 80 kibble most of the nights (but I swear, some nights she ate over 100 :shock: ) so I cut it down to 65. I don't think she is hungry because when she's hungry she eats ALL the crumbs she can find in her cage and that has only happened a couple of times because I filled her bowl later than normal... But, so far we haven't seen any weight loss around here. She looks healthier, but her weight is the same. :? So I'd love to hear more opinions from the experts.


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## LizardGirl (Aug 25, 2008)

I would start by taking out the mealies, or opting for a lower fat insect if he'll eat them, like crickets. That might help a bit. Then see if you can get him to exercise more than eat less. You can try scattering the kibble around the cage to make him move more to eat it all, take him out in the evenings to run around a bit, and then if that doesn't help much try finding an even lower fat food. It's best to give less fat and promote exercise than to have him be hungry at all. Being hungry tells his body there isn't enough food, and might actually make him hold onto more fat.


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

I've never believed in limiting food but rather changing the way they are fed and their activity level. 

Change to a low fat food if you aren't already using one. In the evening, give treats of veggies. They will help fill hedgie up without adding fat. Give the same amount of kibble but hide it in different areas of the cage. Change these areas nightly and also change the location of the food and water dishes nightly. 

Switching to a larger cage works great to encourage more moving around. Change the location of the cage furniture nightly. 

When out in the evening, encourage activity. A foot bath in the tub usually forces them to wander around. Just make sure the water doesn't cool off. Do what hedgie prefers to do as far as activity but often those that are overweight tend to be couch potatoes. 

You want a slow gradual weight loss. Loosing too fast is not healthy for them anymore than it is for us. Once they do loose weight, it is still a constant battle to keep it down and the activity routine has to continue.


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## susanaproenca (Aug 14, 2010)

Nancy said:


> I've never believed in limiting food but rather changing the way they are fed and their activity level.
> 
> Change to a low fat food if you aren't already using one. In the evening, give treats of veggies. They will help fill hedgie up without adding fat. Give the same amount of kibble but hide it in different areas of the cage. Change these areas nightly and also change the location of the food and water dishes nightly.
> 
> ...


I agree and feel really bad having to limit her food, but:

- I changed her to a lower fat food than the one she was eating when we first got her. I try to offer veggies every single night and the only things she eats are squash and sweet potatoes. But that doesn't make her eat less. I swear, it's psychological. She will eat whatever amount of food she can.

- Putting the kibble in different places: she will be sleeping, then she will get up, go to a spot and eat the food there. Then goes back to bed. Wakes up a hour later, goes slowly sniffing around for second food spot, eats and goes back to bed. And so on. :roll:

- I don't know what type of cage she was in before we got her but I know it was very small, smaller than my spare cage that's 30x18. I built her a 2x2 C&C cage, keep her nails trimmed and wheel always available, and let her walk around in our bedroom. She walks for 2 minutes verrrrry slowly, then she always finds something interesting to anoint and spends the next 20 minutes frothing and licking her back. At least she is stretching.

- Anything water related is impossible as I do believe she will have a heart attack every time she sees the sink or tub. It doesn't have to have water in it yet, just being where water usually is makes her nervous.

I'm sorry I stole this thread but I really need some help... Her weight has actually increased a little bit since she got here even though I did all this. :?


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## lmg_319 (Oct 4, 2010)

Thanks everyone for the suggestions. Holden doesn't like any veggies but I will keep trying. I'm going to start hiding the kibble in his cage.  I have been a bit busier than usual and only have him out every second night but I'll try to get him out for exercise every night.

No problem Susana, we are both having the same problem so any input (for you or me) is great. Holden came to me at about 620 grams and he is now 685g. he is a big boy but he is pretty much as wide as long now.


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## xspiked (Feb 27, 2011)

I started getting paranoid after my friend said Bulu looked bigger than the last time she saw her, which was only 3 days ago. She doens't really look overweight, but when she rolls up she does have a double chin (makes her look like shes smiling  ).

Do all hedgehogs eat around the same amount? An earlier post said they reduced the number of kibbles to around 65, but Bulu eats 50-60 a night only.

And I like the idea of feeding them veggie treats.


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## Kalandra (Aug 25, 2008)

No they don't all eat the same amount. Much like us some gain weight easily and others are hard to keep weight on.

Also watch the calories in the food you give. Not all low fat foods are low calorie. I have a 30%p/10%f that has significantly more calories per kilogram than one with both higher protein and fat. You can view the calorie content usually on the bag of food, if not contact the manufacturer. 

Here is one method I use... 
During cuddle time, put a piece of fleece on your chest (this is to catch the poop that will happen during exercising), and encourage the hedgehog to climb up. It may not seem like much, but it can help strengthen their legs. I figure if they are not exercising at all, they may need some strengthening. I do this while reclining and vary the amount of the incline as the hedgehog exercises. Its less stressful than water for some, and you can help steady them if you have one that is having trouble walking.

If they won't climb up, let them climb down. At least they are moving some.


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## PJM (May 7, 2010)

I don't know if this will help anyone, but I recently discovered that if I get Cholla out for cuddle time first & then Zoey, she will walk at least twice as much on her wheel. She usually only wheels for maybe less than half a mile, now it's over a mile. I think she will wheel untill cuddle time & then that's it, she's done for the night. 
Another thing I do with Zoey (because of missing teeth), I make her a blended soft kibble mixture, put it into little bowls & freeze. I've been adding more veggies into the mixture & she hasn't noticed.
I'm wondering, if you could puree other veggies & add them to the sweet potato for Pete?


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## lmg_319 (Oct 4, 2010)

Kalandra said:


> Also watch the calories in the food you give. Not all low fat foods are low calorie. I have a 30%p/10%f that has significantly more calories per kilogram than one with both higher protein and fat. You can view the calorie content usually on the bag of food, if not contact the manufacturer.


I just looked up the calories in Holden's food. For the Performatrin Ultra, it says 3 380 kcal/kg or 330 kcal/8 fl. oz. cup. Is this too high? It confuses me how its in kcal/cup. For CSFCLSL its 3,225 kcal/kg (302 kcal/cup). Is there a different food you suggest me trying? I have to get him a new bag of food anyways soon.



PJM said:


> \
> Another thing I do with Zoey (because of missing teeth), I make her a blended soft kibble mixture, put it into little bowls & freeze. I've been adding more veggies into the mixture & she hasn't noticed.


I might try the blended kibble anyways to encourage Holden to eat some veggies. Do you soften it with water and then blend it? And what do you add in?


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## PJM (May 7, 2010)

I put about 1 cup of the kibble mix in a bowl with about 1 cup of water & let it soak up. Meanwhile, I cut up a carrot, 1/2 apple, small sweet potato, & small piece of chicken. I cook all that in a pot until the chicken's done & the veggies are soft. Then just puree everything in either a blender or food processor. You could delete the chicken & maybe lower the amount of the kibble. This past time, I didn't have a sweet potato, so I added some broccoli & cauliflower.
At first, she actually gained weight. But I think that was because she could finally eat without all the trouble because of her teeth.


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## lmg_319 (Oct 4, 2010)

Thanks! I'll give it a try and see if I can reduce the amount of kibble he eats by filling him up with veggies!


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## MissC (Nov 15, 2010)

Good Lord. :roll: 

So, in addition to being a behavior specialist, manicurist, EMT, janitor, poop evaluator, pin cushion, lifeguard, pharmacist, Holistic Health Practitioner, carpenter and cook, we also have to be a Nutritionist & Personal Trainer??!! 

:shock:


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## lmg_319 (Oct 4, 2010)

Now for some honest opinions...Whoever watched the video..does he look overweight?

I won't tell him..promise...


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## MissC (Nov 15, 2010)

I am slow in the head...where's the video...I will watch and no matter how much it pains me, will give an honest opinion.


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## lmg_319 (Oct 4, 2010)

I'm slow in the head to 

Its on my other post lol...first posting

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=9777


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## susanaproenca (Aug 14, 2010)

PJM said:


> I'm wondering, if you could puree other veggies & add them to the sweet potato for Pete?


I've tried... Here we eat LOTS of fruits and vegetables, and as long as it's safe I offer pretty much everything to them.

I've tried lots of vegetables, all pureed together, separated, etc... she eats a little bit of it, but never a lot that would considerably help filling her up. Actually I think she ends up with more fruits and vegetables on her quills from anointing than in her belly. :roll:

From all I know about her life with her 3 previous owners... I wouldn't be surprised if she didn't have food available and went hungry, and that's why now she eats all she can. If I put 50 kibble in the bowl, gone. 60, gone. 80, gone, 100, gone. I'm really lost here.


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## MissC (Nov 15, 2010)

Disclaimer: Snarf is the ONLY hedgehog I have ever gotten a good, live look at and he's a weenie baby for being almost 2 yrs old and if anything, is underweight, so.....

K...that said...and I am sure I will be no help per usual :roll: : I saw the video and I have to say, even if I don't compare him to Mr Scrawnypants, he does seem big to me...some could be his general build...he IS just plain ol' bigger but I saw it when he turned around...across his chest especially...he looks...hefty?...when you look from his nose and down his body, the sides of his chest kinda bulge out a bit...but that could be camera angle, too.

Can he curl up/uncurl completely and easily? That seems to be the one thing that is always brought up. How does he walk? Does he waddle from side to side? (It was hard to tell cuz he's in water.) Does he have fat rolls? Double chin? Fatty deposits under his front legs?

I think you just need to do everything you said: more veggies...more exercise...fewer calories, without restricting him too much.

Weight is so weird: I LMAO every time Jamie steps onto the Wii cuz it says "Ooooooh" and tells him he's 'obese'. :lol: I laugh EVERY time. He's 5'9" and 230ish lbs. Sounds obese doesn't it? He doesn't have an ounce of fat on him. I'm 5'6" & 130lbs and carry around waaaaaaaaay more fat than he does. He would survive on burgers and fries; I eat rice and vegetables. Who's healthier?


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## lmg_319 (Oct 4, 2010)

@ Miss C: He is in general a bigger hog, but I think he is starting to become overweight. When he isn't in the tub he runs around and doesn't waddle..he just waddles in the water lol. I will try and get another video of him tomorrow just walking on the floor. He can completely curl up but I think I'm starting to see some fat rolls. He doesn't have a double chin yet. I'm going to make a vet appt tomorrow anyways because 100grams in 5 months is a lot of weight.

@ PJM and Susana: I tried the mash tonight with some cauliflower, chicken, carrot and kibble and he wouldn't even touch it. Hopefully he will tomorrow. He also likes no veggies. Susana, did you bring Pete to the vet yet? I can tell you any advice I get at my appt next week.


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## MissC (Nov 15, 2010)

susanaproenca said:


> From all I know about her life with her 3 previous owners... I wouldn't be surprised if she didn't have food available and went hungry, and that's why now she eats all she can. If I put 50 kibble in the bowl, gone. 60, gone. 80, gone, 100, gone. I'm really lost here.


This absolutely breaks my heart...poor thing. 

Humans are so stupid. In general, as a species, we suck. 

I think you're dead on about why she eats so much, tho...she's smart! She's learned. I don't think you have much of a choice and will hade to do the usual: increase veggies and decrease kibble...can you increase her fibre somehow? I'm thinking it might make her think she's full?

I feel for you...it can't be easy to withhold something like food. Sheesh.


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## PJM (May 7, 2010)

lmg_319 said:


> Now for some honest opinions...Whoever watched the video..does he look overweight?
> 
> I won't tell him..promise...


I'm no expert, but he didn't look too big to me. He looks fluffy from the front (which is totally cute), but not fat from the top. But I only know Cholla (tiny) & Zoey (little fluffy, called "big, fat Zoey" by hubby - but that's only in comparison to Cholla)


lmg_319 said:


> @ PJM and Susana: I tried the mash tonight with some cauliflower, chicken, carrot and kibble and he wouldn't even touch it. Hopefully he will tomorrow. He also likes no veggies. Susana, did you bring Pete to the vet yet? I can tell you any advice I get at my appt next week.


Sorry - I wished it had worked.


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## susanaproenca (Aug 14, 2010)

lmg_319 said:


> @ PJM and Susana: I tried the mash tonight with some cauliflower, chicken, carrot and kibble and he wouldn't even touch it. Hopefully he will tomorrow. He also likes no veggies. Susana, did you bring Pete to the vet yet? I can tell you any advice I get at my appt next week.


I brought her to the vet last December, when we first got her. I spoke with the vet yesterday and today, and I'm waiting for the weather to start getting a little warmer and then I'll bring her in for a x-ray and some more through exams. Because she's 2 1/2 and has lived in bad conditions most of her life, and is overweight... I want to know how things look internally.

Good luck at your appointment! 



MissC said:


> This absolutely breaks my heart...poor thing.
> 
> Humans are so stupid. In general, as a species, we suck.
> 
> ...


When we got her, I thought she had been through 2 other owners only. Then I started digging in and found out she actually had 3 owners before us. Poor thing, that explains why she has such a hard time trusting us.

I spoke with the 2nd and 3rd owners... and they all had really bad things to say about the way she was treated by the previous person. :x

I went to Petco yesterday and bought Castor & Pollux Ultramix, 8.5% fiber. I'm starting to introduce that to her mix now, I agree with you that maybe the fiber will make her feel full, but I don't know.

I've noticed she wakes up quite a few times during the day to eat -- I thought about not leaving food available during the day but I just can't do that to her. When there's no food in her bowl she just sits there, next to it, with a sad face. It breaks my heart


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## MissC (Nov 15, 2010)

susanaproenca said:


> I've noticed she wakes up quite a few times during the day to eat -- I thought about not leaving food available during the day but I just can't do that to her. When there's no food in her bowl she just sits there, next to it, with a sad face. It breaks my heart


Oh, for pete's sake...she's making ME cry. 

What if, during the day, only fruit & veggies are out and maybe 2-3 pieces of kibble? Just enough to make her feel like she got something. :?

Have you tried dried fruit? Snarf so far has eaten NO regular fruits/veggies but eats dried banana, mango, papaya, apricot and apple like nobody's business.


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## PJM (May 7, 2010)

Oh poor baby Pete. I'm so glad she's with you now. I just want to snuggle her & give her all the food in the world.


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## MissC (Nov 15, 2010)

PJM said:


> Oh poor baby Pete. I'm so glad she's with you now. I just want to snuggle her & give her all the food in the world.


PJM! Don't be an enabler! 
*I* will snuggle her and giver her all the food in the world.


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## susanaproenca (Aug 14, 2010)

Ladies there's no need to fight over Pete. She is so big that everybody can snuggle with her. And she will gladly accept all the food. :lol: 

MissC, I like the idea of offering her vegetables during the day. I will try that this weekend. Thanks!


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## lmg_319 (Oct 4, 2010)

PJM said:


> lmg_319 said:
> 
> 
> > Now for some honest opinions...Whoever watched the video..does he look overweight?
> ...


Thanks PJM for the opinion. Thats kinda what I thought too, but I'll have the vet confirm wednesday.

Question for everyone though, I made an appointment for wednesday. The examination fee is 80 dollars, is that about the regular fee?


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## MissC (Nov 15, 2010)

lmg_319 said:


> Question for everyone though, I made an appointment for wednesday. The examination fee is 80 dollars, is that about the regular fee?


That's what I will be paying in Calgary in a few hours for Snarfer.


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## lmg_319 (Oct 4, 2010)

PJM said:


> lmg_319 said:
> 
> 
> > @ PJM and Susana: I tried the mash tonight with some cauliflower, chicken, carrot and kibble and he wouldn't even touch it. Hopefully he will tomorrow. He also likes no veggies. Susana, did you bring Pete to the vet yet? I can tell you any advice I get at my appt next week.
> ...


He ate some tonight!!! I am so happy he is getting veggies in some way
Do you leave it out all night like regular kibble for Zoey?


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