# The most heart-breaking thing happened to hayley today



## piojillo (Sep 15, 2009)

She was running or her wheel as usual, and i walked into the room, i guess sudden moves scare her so she balled up and because of that she fell of the wheel and rolled onto the fishtank's glass and hit her face against it then she started crying               
I quickly picked her up and held her for a while


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## dorasdaddy (Dec 23, 2008)

(insert fish tank rant here) (insert too small of an enclosure rant here)


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## piojillo (Sep 15, 2009)

I know, we have her in there till we find a bigger one, it's not easy finding a big fishtank in Costa Rica, still, i almost cried


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## dorasdaddy (Dec 23, 2008)

DONT USE A FISH TANK. Your little one is a MAMMAL, not a FISH!!!!!!! Fish tanks do not provide nearly enough ventilation. would you want to stay in your bathroom for a week or more with the toilet not working and keeping your nose about an inch from your waste? That is the very thing you are doing to this poor creature!


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## piojillo (Sep 15, 2009)

Sorry, that's the best i can do right now, Its hard to find asuitable one in Costa Rica, and plus im short on cash


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## dorasdaddy (Dec 23, 2008)

There are several much much better options that are cheaper than an aquarium..if you cant afford to PROPERLY house this little one you need to rehome her A.S.A.P.


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## hedgielover (Oct 30, 2008)

Check out the housing forum for ideas of more suitable enclosures. Some people on here do use tanks but they have alot of negatives and you really do need a proper sized cage. Good for you for planning to get one. 

Tank negatives include, 

hard to clean
harder to heat properly (glass holds tempurature really well, chances are the walls and bottom of cage will either be too hot or too cold)
Bad ventilation
I actually think that tanks are ridiculously over priced (they are here anyway 100's of dollars for something tiny!) I bet you could find the plastic storage bin for way less than that and it's really easy to modify and make into a really cool cage. 

To make a tank work you have to clean it multiple times a day every time your hedgehog poops or pees so he won't be breathing it in. If you have a day where you are sick or busy or just can't stay up all night they are not a viable option. 

As for the banging into the wall thing. What do you mean she was crying? I've never heard a hedgehog cry before so I was just curious. Hedgehog's can get really injured from falls and especially since she banged her head you need to keep an eye out for strange behavior. Since it seems like she is new to you it might be hard to notice but if anything changes or she stops eating or becomes less active you need to take her to a vet to get checked out. I hope you have found one already if not it would be a good idea to get looking now before there is an emergency. 

Good luck.


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## FiaSpice (Jan 16, 2009)

I think everyone is right about fish tank beeing not good. I'm sure there are transparent clear plastic bins for about less than the equivalent of 20$. As said, you can drill hole in them to make some ventilation.


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## kurai18 (Aug 31, 2009)

Even a large cardboard box might be better than a fishtank.
I kept my Bacon in a large cardboard box and drilled holes in the wall of the box to put his wheel in and everything and he loved it. 
I cut off all the top flaps and cut out a big part of the front wall so that it was more open, and left only a ledge just high enough that he wouldn't climb over and escape. I left the other three walls just as they were.
For the floor, I first put a layer of glossy calendar paper that wouldn't absorb water,
then I layered it with newspaper, then I spread out an old shirt over it.
It was a super cheap way to give him a good temporary cage, and as long as you are diligent about changing out the newspapers and washing the t-shirts, your hedgie should be fine.
Plus, cardboard walls are softer than glass so less risk of getting hurt, and the hedgie will have fun tunneling in the shirt and rustling the newspapers.
It can't be a long-time thing since at some point the cardboard will start to stink since it absorbs smell, but for a temporary cage for like a month or so it works really well.
I'm sure if you go to any big store in your area and ask them if you could have a box they are going to throw away, they'd be happy to help you.


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## FiaSpice (Jan 16, 2009)

kurai18, you're not really giving good advice here. First the cardboard box: it's dark and if the bedding don't absob everything and gets soggy. Plus you can't clean it, so it's quite disgusting. Glossy paper and newspaper aren't a good choice because it doesn't absobs well and can leave you're hedgie walking in puddle. Also the ink on them can be toxic, not mentioning getting a dirty hedgie. 

The best advice for a temp cage is a plastic bin with holes drilled in it. Cheap, safe, lightweight and easy to clean.


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## krbshappy71 (Jul 17, 2009)

I disagree, I think it was good advice given the situation discussed. She was trying to offer a free alternative to someone who is claiming money is an issue. She said as a temporary setup, and someone who is short on cash might not want to purchase a rubbermaid container.

I'm not saying it is a great solution but since the person was speaking from their own experience why not let them share their experience? Granted, newspapers aren't the recommended/preferred bedding but she also suggested t-shirts to help absorb any wetness.


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## FiaSpice (Jan 16, 2009)

I know aquariums suck but I don't think a cardboard would be better cause it's not washable and it would just absorb stuff. It was also suggested it would be good for a month. A day or 2, I wouldn't have minded. I don't know the price of plastic bins in Costa Rica, but if you can't afford it... what would you do if the hedgie gets sick... I'm sure it can cost more than a bin.


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## kurai18 (Aug 31, 2009)

I changed the newspaper everyday and gave him a new bedding of tshirt every other day. The tshirt and layers of newspaper were enough to absorb the pee and the floor never got soggy. 
And I did say I cut the wall off the box so that it wan't dark. It was only a temporary cage but he loved it and even after I gave him a new cage he liked the cardboard one better so I made him a tunnel to connect the two cages and he plays in the cardboard one and sleeps in his plastic one. It's been a month since I've had him and the box does not stink yet. 
And the Austin chronicle uses non toxic ink. I read up on the bedding forum and checked before I used newspapers as a bedding.
But yeah, I was just offering a super cheap/free alternative since the person said they were short on cash. Bacon stayed in his temporary cage for 9days and I found him a big plastic one. If it's an issue, I 'm sure you can just put him in a new box everyday since you can probably get them for free.


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## Shelbys Mom (Mar 27, 2009)

kurai18 your post gave me an idea for a playpen for mine. Thanks!

I'm going to ask them at the local grocery store to save me one of the big boxes they use to keep like water melons or pumpkins in.
I could fold it up when not in use and it would give them a lot of space and it's tall enough so they (hopefully) can't climb out! 
And maybe even section it off so my boy will have his own play area and he can play at the same time as the girls!

I'll probably buy a big piece of plastic for the flooring and put fleece over it though.


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## Bengall77 (Aug 1, 2009)

I'm sick of seeing people jump down each other's throat. If someone posts something that is dangerous or wrong you should politely point it out and show them a link to previous articles, not yell at them in caps. It's rude and disrespectful and I can guarantee that you wouldn't want them to do it to you. I know that many of you get frustrated when new people make the same mistakes over and over, but they'll stop listening if they get screamed at each time they ask for help or advice. I've noticed that there seems to be a lot of elitism and hot-headedness from some of the members of this forum. I know that you all are just concerned about the animals, but enough is enough.

*Piojillo-* Most hedgehog owners agree that they need a cage that is at least 2 square feet big. While aquariums may seem like a good idea they are humid, have poor ventilation, and are quite heavy and difficult to move and clean if you get the proper size. I know that you said that money is an issue, but there are a few cheap alternatives out there.

I myself use a clear plastic 126 qt. Sterilite bin that I have melted holes into for ventilation. It cost $8.99 at Wal-Mart. I know that you are from a different country and as such you may not have the same availability of goods as we have in North America but I am absolutely certain that you can find something similar that won't cost too much.

Part of the responsibility of owning a pet is making sure that they have what they need. An adequately sized cage is as necessary to the health and well being of a small animal as fresh food and water are.

If you really can't find anything where you live you can always try to find a cheap rabbit/guinea pig cage on-line.


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## Anny (Jul 17, 2009)

Bengall77 said:


> I'm sick of seeing people jump down each other's throat. If someone posts something that is dangerous or wrong you should politely point it out and show them a link to previous articles, not yell at them in caps. It's rude and disrespectful and I can guarantee that you wouldn't want them to do it to you. I know that many of you get frustrated when new people make the same mistakes over and over, but they'll stop listening if they get screamed at each time they ask for help or advice. I've noticed that there seems to be a lot of elitism and hot-headedness from some of the members of this forum. I know that you all are just concerned about the animals, but enough is enough.


I wholeheartedly agree!!! There are some members here that almost seem to derive pleasure at berating new member and hedgehog owners. If they honestly think they are helping I find it quite sad. It is NOT with a *hostile *approach that you will help anyone and I too am quite fed up with such posts. I almost left these forums when I first found them for this very reason and it was not because I was a target of such posts. I just can't stand seeing people think it's okay to answer a topic this way and make people feel like crap for making a wrong decision. Being helpful in a nice tone isn't hard and far more helpful.



Bengall77 said:


> *Piojillo-* Most hedgehog owners agree that they need a cage that is at least 2 square feet big. While aquariums may seem like a good idea they are humid, have poor ventilation, and are quite heavy and difficult to move and clean if you get the proper size. I know that you said that money is an issue, but there are a few cheap alternatives out there.
> 
> I myself use a clear plastic 126 qt. Sterilite bin that I have melted holes into for ventilation. It cost $8.99 at Wal-Mart. I know that you are from a different country and as such you may not have the same availability of goods as we have in North America but I am absolutely certain that you can find something similar that won't cost too much.
> 
> ...


Sound advice!


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## dorasdaddy (Dec 23, 2008)

Sorry, coddling just is not in my nature when someone CHOOSES to take another life into their hands. And for the record, capitalizing one or two words is not considered yelling. It is simply a way to EMPHASIZE the word. 

I personally think that if you cant afford proper food, housing and vet care then you have no business owning a pet. They are not just a plaything with a pulse, they are a living breathing being and when you can't take proper care of them it is time to turn them over to someone that can.


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## Anny (Jul 17, 2009)

dorasdaddy said:


> Sorry, coddling just is not in my nature when someone CHOOSES to take another life into their hands. And for the record, capitalizing one or two words is not considered yelling. It is simply a way to EMPHASIZE the word.
> 
> I personally think that if you cant afford proper food, housing and vet care then you have no business owning a pet. They are not just a plaything with a pulse, they are a living breathing being and when you can't take proper care of them it is time to turn them over to someone that can.


No one is asking anyone to coddle another.

Why the need to be so rude???? Seriously, do you really think it helps????


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## dorasdaddy (Dec 23, 2008)

I was not so cynical at first, but when you have seen as many posts as i have about hedgies dying because of improper treatment it tends to add a bit of cynicism. Seriously, i know he lives in a different country, but if proper supplies arent available, then he should have never taken this responsibility on. The internet reaches everywhere, even to the country he lives in as evidenced by him being on this board.....so why not mail order the proper cage and give this hedgie a good life...and dont give me money as an excuse, because a cage is much cheaper than a vet visit....


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## Anny (Jul 17, 2009)

dorasdaddy said:


> I was not so cynical at first, but when you have seen as many posts as i have about hedgies dying because of improper treatment it tends to add a bit of cynicism. Seriously, i know he lives in a different country, but if proper supplies arent available, then he should have never taken this responsibility on. The internet reaches everywhere, even to the country he lives in as evidenced by him being on this board.....so why not mail order the proper cage and give this hedgie a good life...and dont give me money as an excuse, because a cage is much cheaper than a vet visit....


I'm sorry you've grown so cynical...

Just try to think at what the EFFECT you can cause with such hostile posts... A new owner has not seen all what you have seen posted and the heartbreaking stories, all he sees is your rude answer and that will just push them away instead of them staying here and getting more help.

If you can't contain yourself, I just ask that you let others reply instead. There are enough people here to help out in a nicer way and that's what newbies really need when they start and are doing things wrong.

I know you're right in the messages you're trying to convey, it's the way you come accross that can be quite abbrasive and honestly it's a huge turn off for others as well your intended target.


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## dorasdaddy (Dec 23, 2008)

I will continue to reply, and believe it or not i have just as many supporters as detractors. Some people appreciate my passion and the frank manner in which i address situations....and if they cant handle my answers, then how will they ever handle it when things get really hard? My hedgie has developed a condition that i can almost guarantee most of these newbies would loose interest in really quickly. If you care more to know about it then feel free to pm me.


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## Anny (Jul 17, 2009)

dorasdaddy said:


> I will continue to reply, and believe it or not i have just as many supporters as detractors. Some people appreciate my passion and the frank manner in which i address situations....and if they cant handle my answers, then how will they ever handle it when things get really hard? My hedgie has developed a condition that i can almost guarantee most of these newbies would loose interest in really quickly. If you care more to know about it then feel free to pm me.


I don't doubt you have supporters, but there are many who don't like the way you choose to send your messages being rude and abrasive. Your passion is certainly appreciated but not the matter in which you choose to answer and sadly you don't seem to realise you do more harm than good to new owners and members here.

Understand these are forums dedicated to the love of hedgehog and to promote proper care. All forums have new members on a regular basis that are newbies that need guidance when starting out. That is a FACT you have to get used, it will never change! Getting annoyed and being rude to new members asking the same questions and doing the same mistakes really doesn't help. Some will turn away because of this and never get their HEDGIE the proper care and learning information that can be shared here. Is that your goal???

Also many members are of young age and can be more sensitive to aggressive criticism. Another thing to consider when answering their topics. I completely understand why repeating the same info when the same questions arise over and over again can be frustrating but try and see things from a newbie's point of view. They just got here and want to learn more as well as interact with the community.

And as per these forum's etiquette rules:
"Good manners show an interest - a concern - for your fellow forum members rather than just your own wants."

Peace


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## spinny (Oct 8, 2009)

I find it very interesting that the person on this forum that speaks the harshest about how others care for and should care for their hedgehogs, is also the same person that caused irreparable damage causing death to one of his own hedgehogs. If that isn't the pot calling the kettle black I'm not sure what is. There are other forums that thankfully Dorasdaddy is not a member on that give helpful and useful information to new members about care for hedgehogs. I am surprised that people even post on this board anymore. 

JMHO FWIT


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## dorasdaddy (Dec 23, 2008)

Wow, that is all i can say....yes what happened to Millie was an unfortunate ACCIDENT, It was not caused from mishandleing or improper care or housing. But hey, if it makes you feel better to drudge up other peoples pain then so be it. By the way, you need to get your facts straight before you come on here spouting this sewage.


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

I think it's time that everyone start to treat each other as they would like to be treated.  When you make nasty posts, expect to get nasty right back.


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## LarryT (May 12, 2009)

In the words of rodney king "can't we all just get along"


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## hedgielover (Oct 30, 2008)

spinny said:


> I find it very interesting that the person on this forum that speaks the harshest about how others care for and should care for their hedgehogs, is also the same person that caused irreparable damage causing death to one of his own hedgehogs. If that isn't the pot calling the kettle black I'm not sure what is. There are other forums that thankfully Dorasdaddy is not a member on that give helpful and useful information to new members about care for hedgehogs. I am surprised that people even post on this board anymore.
> 
> JMHO FWIT


It's very unfair for you to use that situation against dora'sdaddy. Aside from asking him (or anyone else) to be polite and pointing out the aspects of the post you found offensive there is not much else that can be done. Continuing the argument is not going to help. So I'm done. if you all still feel the need to go one at dora'sdaddy I hope it gives you whatever it is you are looking for.


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## dorasdaddy (Dec 23, 2008)

Wow, even an admin condones this, just like they did that funpenguin crap. Ill have to say im most disappointed in this site....so everyone, including YOU NANCY STFU!!!!!!!!!! That should land me on the banned list for sure


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## LarryT (May 12, 2009)

spinny said:


> I find it very interesting that the person on this forum that speaks the harshest about how others care for and should care for their hedgehogs, is also the same person that caused irreparable damage causing death to one of his own hedgehogs. If that isn't the pot calling the kettle black I'm not sure what is. There are other forums that thankfully Dorasdaddy is not a member on that give helpful and useful information to new members about care for hedgehogs. I am surprised that people even post on this board anymore.
> 
> JMHO FWIT


Caused???
Considering you joined today *cough* you are ignorant. Sharing a tragic event takes courage. Making up a new user name to bash the owner of a deceased hedgehog because he has the nerve to speak up when people give bad advice?- Shameful.


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## Herisson (Jan 7, 2009)

Millie died from a terrible accident that was not preventable. 
Bless her soul and may she rest in peace.


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## leannem (Mar 27, 2009)

this is worse then day time t.v.....


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## LarryT (May 12, 2009)

u r so right but u can't get HHC on tv just yet :lol:


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## Hedgiepets (Aug 21, 2008)

This needs to stop! If you can't be polite, then don't post. I am closing this thread.


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