# potty training issues



## yourmuse (Jul 4, 2010)

I have a hedgehog, he's 9 weeks old...and I'm having some issues with his potty training. I have a litter box in his cage, and a wheel next to it--and he prefers to go on the wheel. It's so annoying cleaning that wheel every morning!! He runs around on it after he pees and poos on it, he tramples it in, and a lot of the pee and poo fly off the wheel as he's running and the whole cage is nasty by morning. Really gross! 

So I decided to run an experiment. Two nights ago I took his wheel away, cleaned his cage and took his wheel away for the whole night. And boy, he did not like that! I could hear him complaining from the other room!!! But in the morning, I went to check on him...and his cage? Spotless!!! I use fleece lining and it was absolutely clean!! Exactly like I left it, not a stay poop anywhere! And he even used his litter box at night--that was the only place he went! 

And then yesterday I gave him his wheel back. He was so happy when he saw it! He climbed on, ran a few seconds, stopped and peed and pooped in the wheel, and then climbed off and went to snuggle in his blankie in his igloo! GRRR!!!! What do I do??? I don't want to permanently take his wheel away because I know he needs excersize, and I've also cleaned the wheel with odor neutralizers hoping that would help--but to no avail!  How do I teach him to only go in his litter box? Any advice would be greatly appreciated!!!


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

Hedgehogs potty on their wheel and there really is nothing you can do about it except for washing the wheel each day. They need to have their wheel and to keep it away from him just so his cage is clean is not fair to him. He is only 9 weeks old so his potty habits are going to change over the next months. He may become litter trained but you can always expect there will be a messy wheel. That's just hedgehogs.


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## LarryT (May 12, 2009)

What kind of wheel do you have? Some wheels are alot easier to clean than others.


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## shaelikestaquitos (Feb 2, 2010)

Yup, like Nancy said, hedgehogs just go poopie and peepee on their wheel while they run... so you can't do anything about it.
What you can do is try placing the wheel on top of the litter box so that when he pees and poos the litter box catches it.
Also, don't take the wheel away like that, he was probably frustrated because he wanted to run (they run all night in the wild as well).


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## fracturedcircle (May 31, 2010)

shaelikestaquitos said:


> Also, don't take the wheel away like that, he was probably frustrated because he wanted to run (they run all night in the wild as well).


i definitely second this recommendation.


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## yourmuse (Jul 4, 2010)

I didn't take away his wheel for the night to be mean to him. I took it away to see if he knows how to use the litter box--and he does!! I refuse to accept that he will always be messy like that and I can't do anything about it but clean it. Some people may be content having their hogs live like that, poop anywhere they please... but I'm not. My hog is a VERY smart little guy, I have faith in him. And I'll figure out a way to train him.


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## Littlefootsmama (May 23, 2010)

I don't want to be mean, but you need to learn how hedgehogs behave. They are not dogs.If you want to train something so bad, look into getting one. Don't deprive the poor hedgehog.


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## yourmuse (Jul 4, 2010)

I am learning. I've been reading a lot about them, and they are trainable. There's this something called "positive reinforcement" and yes, it works on hedgehogs too! Give hedgehogs some credit!! They're not totally stupid like some people think. And I'm not depriving my hog of anything, he's perfectly happy! And my hedgie is smarter than your hedgie


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## Chaeriste (Jun 3, 2010)

This is a forum. You posted because you wanted input/advice from other hedgehog owners, which was provided. Instead of taking it in the spirit in which it was intended, you chose to essentially stick your tongue out at those who voluntarily sought to help you. 

Hedgehogs poop while running in their wheels. This is a universal truth. If this bothers you so, perhaps you should consider finding his hoglet a new home. I worry about the inevitability of this hoglet relieving himself on you during playtime and, trust me, he will. How will you react then?

Wheels are vital to hedgehog health, both physically and mentally. Imagine if every activity you enjoyed was taken from you and you didn't know why. He doesn't understand why his wheel wasn't there. Please don't do that to him again. 

You can utilize behavior modifications with hedgehogs, to an extent. However, he's only 9 wks old. Give him a break.


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## yourmuse (Jul 4, 2010)

You're right, it is a forum and I posted here to ask for advice. And the advice I get? I'm told to suck it up because I can't do anything to change his pooping habits and then I get chastised for taking his wheel away for one night....Great forum! Great advice!!!


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## dashedgiehaus (Feb 10, 2010)

I'm sorry that none of the research you did before you got him mentioned that hedgie poo is a fact of life with a hedgie. They poo everywhere, not just on their wheel. In their food and water bowls, in their hedgie hats, bags, blankies and pigloos. In your hand, on your lap, on your bed. 

BTW. Most of us view a messy wheel as a sign that our hedgie's plumbing is functioning properly.
Regards,
Beth


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## Chaeriste (Jun 3, 2010)

I don't see one response that said 'suck it up'. You were told what you didn't want to hear. 

Part of having a pet in your life is feeding it, and the inevitable effect of eating is elimination. Yesterday, my pog was out for playtime and he pooped all over me. I got a baby wipe, cleaned it up and moved on. 

Please take this advice and counsel as it is given: to help you enjoy having a hedgehog in your life. Hedgehogs are different creatures from any other you would have as a pet. Research is vital, and all that I read stated that, while it is possible to litter-train them, that will not be their sole place to potty. It's meant that they will potty in the box rather than in the whole of the cage. They are very clean creatures. 

I hope you can find it in yourself to love the good, the bad and the icky.


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## Sela (Apr 10, 2010)

yourmuse said:


> You're right, it is a forum and I posted here to ask for advice. And the advice I get? I'm told to suck it up because I can't do anything to change his pooping habits and then I get chastised for taking his wheel away for one night....Great forum! Great advice!!!


I didn't see anyone tell you to 'suck it up' in so many words or otherwise. You were told that it is a fact that hedgehogs go to the bathroom on their wheels, and that there really isn't anything anybody can do to change that. Sometimes you'll be lucky and get a hedgie who, strangely, will refuse to go on their wheel, but that is the EXCEPTION, not the rule. It is very rare to get one like that, and apparently, yours isn't one of those.

In addition, nobody chastised you for taking his wheel. You were just told that it probably wasn't a good idea, and that you maybe shouldn't do that again, now that you know he didn't like it. Nancy and Shae were very nice when telling you that you likely shouldn't take his wheel out again, I'm pretty sure they just don't want your boy to get ticked at you. Because trust me, an annoyed hedgie is a naughty hedgie, I have two who have proven that to me time and again, little buggers.

Please try to realize and accept that the advice isn't bad just because you don't like the answer you were given. I hope you can come to understand that nobody was attacking you or scolding you in any way. We all just want what's best for the hedgehog, and to help people who come to us for assistance.


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## yourmuse (Jul 4, 2010)

Yes, research mentioned the hedgehogs pooping habits--- but that's not the point. The point is, he doesn't poop everywhere! He doesn't poop in his food and water bowls, hedgie hats, bags, blankies, pigloo, hands, lap or bed. Only the wheel and litter box (mostly the wheel). And I handle him 2-3 hours every single evening! I've had him for three weeks now and he hasn't pooped anywhere but the wheel and litter box! How do you explain that? He's special, that's why! He's my smart boy and he's amazing and he will be a Champion when he's all grown up!

All I wanted was some advice on how to get him to use the litter box more...and I find out that most hedgehog owners are perfectly content with letting their hedgies live like ignorant little pigs. How sad. 

And before anyone else starts ranting that hedgehogs are simple creatures and shouldn't be trained like dogs, I suggest you read "The Octopus and the Orangutan" by Eugene Linden. Maybe, just maybe, that will give you a clue at how intelligent animals really are.


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## Littlefootsmama (May 23, 2010)

Someone might want to step in before I rip this girl a new one...


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## Puffers315 (Apr 19, 2010)

I don't think a single person here is saying that a hedgehog is dumb in the intelligence department, its plainly the fact that they are only been domesticated for roughly twenty years and thus are basically still wild creatures, versus a dog or cat that has been domesticated for centuries. Hedgehogs run in the wild, anywhere from 5 to 15 miles. They are basically walking food to most other creatures, and thus to stop to use the bathroom can equal certain death. This is why they poop and pee on their wheels, its just their natural instinct.

The reason some have voiced concerned over the removal of the wheel is because there has been rare cases over time where hedgehogs have stopped using the wheel due to simple changes, such as it making a noise or tilting more than it did before. If they do not use the wheel, they tend to get fat, lazy and unhealthy.

But in short, if you think you can actually train a hedgehog to only go in the litter box, I wouldn't hold your breath. If it was possible, I think someone in the past 20 years would have found a way. There are many that won't even bother with a litter box, some who will use nothing but the litter box, and some that will use it sometimes, or poop somewhere else.



> All I wanted was some advice on how to get him to use the litter box more...and I find out that most hedgehog owners are perfectly content with letting their hedgies live like ignorant little pigs. How sad.


And no offense, its called allowing a wild creature live as it wishes to live, rather than being forced to do what its owner wishes, because they don't like to clean a wheel.

An open mind is a wonderful thing, people are just showing concerned cause we do care about our hedgehogs and other people's hedgehogs so much, that is what this community is about. I've read enough threads in here where people did not keep an open mind and reacted in a not so positive manor, than you find a thread posted several months later of the owner who claimed their hedgehog didn't need a heating system, asking why their hedgehog is in a ball and doesn't respond to them, or that their hog was fine in a roller ball and then ponders why its toe nails were ripped off, or that a wire mesh wheel with side bar supports was perfectly fine that nothing happened, woke up the next day and found their hedgehog dead, cause it jumped out of the wheel while it was still spinning and more or less had its neck snapped from the side bar supports.

Its that we care and don't wish to see harm done to a hedgehog and the grief an owner must deal with due to a mistake, that could have been prevented.


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## nikki (Aug 28, 2008)

I'm trying to figure out how, by removing his wheel, because he pooped and peed on it, is postitive reinforcement? The only way to positively reinforce him using the litter box is to be there each time he uses it and reward him then. So if you want you "idea" to work you're going to have to stay there by him 24/7, rewarding him each time he uses the litter box, not take the wheel away, but not rewarding him when he poops or pees on it. By taking the wheel away you're not actually teaching him to not go to the bathroom on it because its not there for him to learn from. That's how positive reinforcement works. You don't remove the problem ie the wheel, but reward the positive behavior. What you're doing is the equivilant of locking a dog outside for having an accident in the house. The dog isn't going to learn anything by that, but if you reward him every time he goes to the bathroom outside, or asks to go out, and not reward, or punish, him when he messes in the house...he will learn. 

You also have to take into consideration the way a hedgehog's GI tract works, they have evolved to poop and pee while running so that they leave the dropping and scent behind them. Their GI tract is stimulated to evacuate while running, this is something that has evolved over thousands of years.

If you put the litter box under the wheel, most of the mess will be in the litter box, that's what I do with my 15 hedgies, and most don't mess anywhere besides their wheel and litter box. I didn't have to "train" them, they learned it on their own.


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## shaelikestaquitos (Feb 2, 2010)

I'm not saying you did it to be mean, but they can't help themselves. Hedgehogs pee and poop while on the run, just like horses. I have yet to hear of a hedgehog that has learned to "hold it in" whilst they run.

So no, we're not telling you all to suck it up, we are telling you all that from what we know it has not been done, nor is it natural for them.

No one here is saying hedgehogs are unintelligent animals. They DEFINITELY are very intelligent. People here LOVE hedgehogs and I don't think anyone here considers their own pet to just be an "animal" so PLEASE consider that we have pet hedgehogs too, and that we love them very much.

Litter training and somehow teaching them not to poop on the wheel is not the same thing, nor are we suggesting you let your hedgehog "live in its own filth" as you have stated before. My hedgehog is litter trained, yes, but he STILL goes on the wheel while he runs, and NO ONE has ever been able to train a hedgehog not to go while they run... so this is based off of years of hedgehog captivity.

EDIT:
Also, no one told you just to let him go where ever, people told you it is natural for them to go on the wheel.

EDIT:
Sorry I keep editing this, but I keep finding things I didn't cover.

You say that we didn't give you any advice and all we did was criticize you... we did give you advice. For example, I told you that maybe you could put your litter box under the wheel so that the litter catches most of the poo and pee that accumulates while he runs... wouldn't that keep most of the cage clean?

A lot of people on this forum are very knowledgeable about hedgehogs, and I definitely would take the advice of Nancy, Puffers, Larry and pretty much everyone else who has left their input on this forum... we're all trying to help, and we are telling you what we know from our own experiences.. >_>


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## krbshappy71 (Jul 17, 2009)

:roll: :lol:


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

I think everyone has already covered what I would have said. As someone who has had 150+ hedgehogs, all I can say about trying to get him not to poop on his wheel is, good luck with that. I think you are going to quickly find that you don't train hedgehogs so much as they train you.


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## Herisson (Jan 7, 2009)

yourmuse said:


> All I wanted was some advice on how to get him to use the litter box more...and I find out that most hedgehog owners are perfectly content with letting their hedgies live like ignorant little pigs. How sad.


I'm going to give you what are asking for: Advice on how to litter train a hedgehog.

I have one that is 100% and one that is maybe 90%. Give them a litter-box and hope for the best. Either they will love it or at best use it because it's there conveniently located. Buy a Carolina Storm Wheel with the included litter-box, place it under the wheel and call it day. You cannot make them do anything. One of mine will get off his wheel to use the litter-box but it not typical hedgehog behavior. The other uses it mostly because it's in the right spot.

Good luck!


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## Puffers315 (Apr 19, 2010)

Nancy said:


> I think everyone has already covered what I would have said. As someone who has had 150+ hedgehogs, all I can say about trying to get him not to poop on his wheel is, good luck with that. I think you are going to quickly find that you don't train hedgehogs so much as they train you.


In soviet Russia, hedgehog train you.

Sorry, couldn't help it, and probably only the older crowd will get it.



Hester gets off her wheel, proceeds to start to use the litter box, jumps out and goes to the bathroom in the entrance of her loft tube. Just means I get to clean it daily.


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## shaelikestaquitos (Feb 2, 2010)

Puffers315 said:


> In soviet Russia, hedgehog train you.
> 
> Sorry, couldn't help it, and probably only the older crowd will get it.


:lol:


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## Sela (Apr 10, 2010)

Nobody here is saying hedgehogs are stupid. I happen to know that mine, at least, are very bright. We all have hedgies and love them, and to us, our hedgies (and other pets) are our children. Please don't talk down to us as though you are the only one who understands, because honey, you aren't.

The answers we have given you won't change just because you don't like them. Accept them and move on, or, if you must, ignore us as you are quite likely going to do. However, in all situations, you must eventually learn to bow to those with more wisdom and expertise than you. I sincerely hope you will learn this soon, before your insistence that you know best gets your hedgie hurt.


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## Hedgiepets (Aug 21, 2008)

Yourmuse,

Give your baby some time. They tend to poop a lot as babies. You can try to potty train your hedgie but a lot of people have not been successful. Good Luck. Yes, hedgehogs are smart.

This thread is getting out of hand. I am locking this now.


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