# Plumeria's babies!



## moxieberry

They're due tomorrow!  

She's gained a bit over 100g since she was taken away from the male (Oleander). Definitely pregnant! She's nesting now, so the babies should be showing up right on time sometime tomorrow. We are SO excited. It's a good thing we'll be gone all day tomorrow (4.5 hour trip each way to pick up two new girls from Briar Patch Hedgehogs) - it gives me something to do instead of going crazy waiting for Plumeria to "pop", lol!

I'll keep updating this thread once they arrive, once we can get a peek and see how many, and eventually with photos when Plumeria is okay with it. The parents are both Algerian chocolate snowflakes, but based on their past litters there's also a chance of albino and pinto in the litter. Plumeria was an amazing mom the last time - it was her first litter and she was even willing to foster three babies in addition to her own two. I have no doubts she'll do great this time too. 

This is the gorgeous mama:


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## Catters

eep! exciting!


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## Tym4myself

Good Luck, Plumeria! Can't wait to see babies!


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## coribelle

This is SO exciting!! Can't wait to see your gorgeous little babies


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## shetland

She is lovely indeed!


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## moxieberry

One baby so far!  It's pretty chunky for a newborn, which might mean it's a one-baby litter (which would make the title of this thread kind of inaccurate, lol!). Plumeria is still being antsy, so there might be more coming. She kept us waiting for an extra two days, which Kim thinks is because the weather has been kind of gray until today. (Sometimes they'll hold off for a warmer day for the sake of the babies.) Anyway, I'll update if/when more show up!


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## Catters

yaaay congratulations!


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## moxieberry

Final count: three babies!

The first one arrived yesterday evening (Aug 1) and the other two arrived around 4am this morning (Aug 2). She also had a breach baby (born dead, butt all bruised) which seems to have caused the delay after the first baby was born. Baby Number One is definitely larger than the other two. We'll probably sneak a peek sometime early next week to get a picture and maybe determine the sex, but for now mama is exhausted and disgruntled and we're giving her plenty of space to do her thing. She's being a great mama, we're so proud of her.


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## DasIgelPoggie

BABIIIIESSSS!!  I can't wait to see pics!!


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## Tym4myself

Grats on the wee ones!  Sorry about the breech baby.


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## moxieberry

Thanks! And, it happens. For a while there we thought there was only going to be one baby, then we were surprised by the others. We're just glad Plumeria was able to get the breech baby out herself without any damage done.  I can only imagine how sore and exhausted she must be after that - the labor literally lasted from sometime yesterday evening (7ish?) until 4-5am this morning. She's still being a great mama with the three she has. I can't wait for them to get a little older so we can see what sex they are and get a look at what color they're going to be.

Nick's two sisters have decided that the babies are going to be unofficially named after Land Before Time characters, lol!


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## moxieberry

Two girls and a boy.  I should be getting a few photos of them tomorrow. The boy and one girl are albino, the other girl is dark-range. She'll probably be chocolate (like both parents) and will definitely be a snowflake because both parents are. Nick's two sisters have chosen "names" for them (temporary/unofficial) - the boy is Petrie, the girls are Ducky (albino) and Three-Horn (dark).


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## DasIgelPoggie

Yaayyy! Congrats, and I can't wait to see photos!!!


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## Catters

so cuuuute! congrats and sorry about the breach baby.
^_^squeee


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## moxieberry

10 days old. And Plumeria, being a great mama! Sorry for the not-so-great quality. Probably at around 2 weeks old I should be able to get better individual photos of them. Enjoy!


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## AngelaH

What cute little spikey puff balls! Plumeria looks great too!


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## SouthernSweet

such sweet little ones  congrats!


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## silverbell_angel

Sooooooo cute!!! Can't wait to see more pics!!


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## Catters

Well done Plumeria! And such cute babies, adorable! What kind of colour will the lighter two be able to develop? Any lighter colours or is Pinto also still possible?


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## AliciaS

Aw, how cute!


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## moxieberry

Thanks!  

Catters - the two light ones are almost definitely albino. We knew there would probably be at least one because Plumeria and Oleander are both confirmed carriers of the albino gene. They could surprise us and get in some light banding in the next few weeks, but that's really unlikely since all of their lineage for 2-3 generations back are dark-range colors. We know pinto is possible, but it looks like it hasn't cropped up in this litter (or is "hidden" by albinism). The dark girl doesn't have any apparent pinto on her, but she's definitely going to be a snowflake.


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## moxieberry

Took some more photos yesterday, at 16 days old. They're all very curious, even though their eyes haven't opened yet. They're also teething, so they like to mouth our fingers. Constantly anointing, too.

The two albinos (girl and boy):









Dark girl:









Since the forum is being grumpy about me trying to post photos more than a certain height, and the rest are pretty much all vertically oriented, I figure the easiest way is to link to their album on our facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set= ... 989&type=1

Enjoy!


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## njdepietro

They are so adorable! I loveeee the dark female! So Cute!! Congrats!


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## Catters

can we pleaaase have baby update? ^-^


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## moxieberry

Sure! I'll see about getting some more photos soon. My last semester of college just started up, and we also just sent in our USDA application a few days ago, so things are a little nuts as I juggle things and we make sure everything is perfect for the upcoming inspection. Busy busy! But! The babies are thriving, and mama is doing very well also. The two girls are spoken for - the dark girl (unnamed yet) will be going to the wonderful ladies at Happy Hedgies and since we're getting two new studs in a few weeks, we decided to keep the albino girl.  We've been wanting an albino and since both of the new boys (who are very handsome pintos, by the way!) will be very compatible with her, we just couldn't give her up. We've named her Delilah. The albino boy hasn't been claimed yet. They're all turning 4 weeks on the 29th. They grow so fast!

We'll be breeding two more girls on Sept 3-6, so babies will be due around Oct 8-11. I'll make a new thread when those are born.


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## moxieberry

A few more of the boy. I'll get some of the girls tomorrow.


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## Tabi

What an adorable little guy! I just wanna kiss his little face! AHHH


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## moxieberry

Isn't he just?  I don't know how we'll ever be able to give up any of the babies we breed. It's a good thing we're keeping Delilah or I don't know if I could handle it.

Right now there's someone interested in him who commented on our fb page - she literally got her first hedgehog (female) two days ago from a pet store, and now wants this boy. My reaction was more or less: "...  "


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## Aurian

He looks like he is smiling! So cute!
I personally would not let him go the person who just got a girl a few days ago from a pet shop without first finding out exactly why she wants a boy now. Then if her reason is not a good one I would educate her a bit on hedgehogs and not sell her the baby boy! 
Anyway good luck!


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## moxieberry

I wouldn't sell her a boy regardless. If she's open to being educated, I'd happily sell her a female later on (when there are females available), but I won't sell opposite sex to someone who already has a hedgehog unless they're a trusted breeder, or someone I personally know and can trust that they won't be stupid.


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## shetland

He is gorgeous!!!


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## AngelaH

He is an adorable little guy! I love the smiley face! I'm glad to know you care enough not to sell to just anybody, seems to be a lot of irresponsible, or maybe just uninformed, owners out there.


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## Tabi

moxieberry said:


> I wouldn't sell her a boy regardless. If she's open to being educated, I'd happily sell her a female later on (when there are females available), but I won't sell opposite sex to someone who already has a hedgehog unless they're a trusted breeder, or someone I personally know and can trust that they won't be stupid.


same x] I had a hard time selling my babies a month ago.  five gone in a week ( but kept one. She lives with my boyfriend so i still getta watch her grow :lol:


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## moxieberry

AngelaH - we have a reservation/application form for just that reason. It tells us the important info about potential owners and what information they might be lacking.

Tabi - Yeah, we're keeping one girl, though we hadn't planned on it. But then we ended up with two new compatible studs that we're getting in a few weeks, whereas originally we weren't going to keep any from Oleander because our studs include him, his son, and Nick's sister also owns his grandson. The new boys made it worth doing, though, and we've been really wanting an albino.  Fortunately the dark girl is going to Happy Hedgies - they're awesome breeders and friends of ours, so she'll be in great hands and we'll probably see her once in a while.


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## moxieberry

More photos! They're 4 weeks exactly today. 

Albino girl (Delilah; keeping her):

































Albino boy:

















Dark girl (Thyme, going to Happy Hedgies):








She's in a bit of a prickly/timid phase and wasn't cooperating. It seems to vary day by day - I'll post a few more photos of her when she decides to show her face!

And, assorted baby cuteness:


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## Britnee.sto

Oh my gosh the pictures with the too little albino babies are way too cute. <3


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## moxieberry

Thanks! 

A few more of the albino boy and the dark girl. They decided to be more cooperative today. You can't see it, but Thyme has a tiny tiny little pinto spot on her side (about 6 quills total).


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## Tabi

Awh what sweeties. I don't usually like albino anything because they freak me out but your little girl is super adorable!!!!!!!!


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## Mirandaaa

They are so cute!!!!!


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## moxieberry

Thanks!

Tabi - she's also extremely sweet. Most albinos seem to have particularly sweet personalities. Personally I think the red eyes are gorgeous and kind of badass, lol.


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## Tym4myself

The babies are so precious!! I was kind of weirded out by albinos at first, but they are definitely growing on me!


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## Tabi

moxieberry said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Tabi - she's also extremely sweet. Most albinos seem to have particularly sweet personalities. Personally I think the red eyes are gorgeous and kind of badass, lol.


There was an albino girl at my local pet shop. she was housed with a pinto boy, so she could have been prego. She was the sweetest thing ever and definitely fat and her nipples were ready for babies. I thought about getting her but the albino thing made me not. I should have


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## moxieberry

I love albinos because of their personality. We almost got an albino female instead of Archimedes (who was actually from Plumeria and Oleander's first litter when they were bred by our mentor, before we bought them). She was sooo sweet but instead we went with Mr. Grumpypants Archimedes, lol. The eyes are also gorgeous, and they have the cutest little piggy faces with the pink noses.


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## Catters

ahhw they are adorable! <3


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## Tym4myself

moxieberry said:


> I love albinos because of their personality. We almost got an albino female instead of Archimedes (who was actually from Plumeria and Oleander's first litter when they were bred by our mentor, before we bought them). She was sooo sweet but instead we went with Mr. Grumpypants Archimedes, lol. The eyes are also gorgeous, and they have the cutest little piggy faces with the pink noses.


I'm glad to know I'm not the only one with a Mr. Grumpypants! Sparty is so grouchy all the time I've thought about changing his name to Oscar the grouch, lol.


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## samson

Congrats on having such beautiful babies!
I have a quick question though! When do you remove the stillborn baby?? Does it bother the mom if you remove it as soon as you see it??


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## Shell

Oh my, they are so sweet! I love the faces of the two little white one's together in your hands. Could you tell me what "Pinto" means, as I thought it meant white hedgy's, but you mentioned a pinto "spot" on your white baby?


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## Tabi

Shell said:


> Oh my, they are so sweet! I love the faces of the two little white one's together in your hands. Could you tell me what "Pinto" means, as I thought it meant white hedgy's, but you mentioned a pinto "spot" on your white baby?


Pinto means they have white patches like this(the white patches have a lack of pigment. Even the skin is colorless [pink]):


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## Shell

Ahha! Thank you. I'm learning.


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## Tabi

Shell said:


> Ahha! Thank you. I'm learning.


No problem!


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## Tym4myself

Ok, here's another coloring question... Can the grey pintos have grey coloring on their legs? Or would they be all pink?


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## Tabi

Tym4myself said:


> Ok, here's another coloring question... Can the grey pintos have grey coloring on their legs? Or would they be all pink?


Of course. Although, algerians only have leg markings.  Pinto is just a trait that shows up ANYWHERE. So it's a normal colored grey right? But then they've got white patches of unpigmented skin. and they could be anywhere! half of their nose, one of their ears, half of their body, on their belly, on their feet, anywhere 

you can see here, my uno has pink front feet and black back feet. So his front feet have lack of pigment
http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg602/Tabi_Underwood/DSCN1000.jpg


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## Tym4myself

I was just wondering because Lucy's hurt leg has grey on it that could be either bruising or markings...I don't see any markings on her other legs so that's why I was wondering. I think it could be both. Here's what I'm talking about...does this look like a bruise or grey marking on the skin?


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## Tabi

I'd say bruising.. Usually fairly brown or ... well I cant really tell  if she is a white belly, its bruising for sure.
Now that i've looked at it for a bit, the upper darker part is bruising and the lower part looks like lighter bruising and maybe some gray skin spots


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## LizardGirl

Tym4myself said:


> I was just wondering because Lucy's hurt leg has grey on it that could be either bruising or markings...I don't see any markings on her other legs so that's why I was wondering. I think it could be both. Here's what I'm talking about...does this look like a bruise or grey marking on the skin?


Her leg looks totally normal to me, pigment on the legs is normal regardless of which "variety" your hedgehog falls under.  The different indicators for WB and Algerian are so muddled nowadays that distinguishing between the two is pretty much pointless. The crease where her leg reaches her butt there though looks abnormally dark, there might be a bruise/blister going on there, hard to tell.


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## moxieberry

LizardGirl said:


> The different indicators for WB and Algerian are so muddled nowadays that distinguishing between the two is pretty much pointless.


Oh, hi you.  Yeah, after all the talking we've done I'm ready to ditch the terms, even on our website. It makes much more sense to just use the color names and consider Algerian cheek patches as a marking. Maybe if we start, others will catch on!

For the leg color, I don't have anything to add to what LG said. It could be bruising given that the other legs don't have it, but it could also be coincidence because color on the legs isn't necessarily going to be consistent or even visible on all the legs. At the back of the leg, where it bends and meets her rump area - that might just be shadow in the photo, or a sore of some sort, but it looks a little "off".

And, a general update: the babies have started eating quite a lot from Plumeria's bowl, they have great appetites. They came in yesterday (4ish weeks) at 100g (Delilah), 101g (Thyme), and 110g (albino boy). Plumeria has been sleeping outside of the nest a lot to get a well-deserved rest from the demands of being a mama. We're giving them a few more days with her and we'll be moving them to their own cages on the 7th (5 weeks old) - sometime after we have our first USDA inspection, since it's scheduled for that morning. (Yay, finally!)


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## moxieberry

Moving them to their own cages tomorrow! They're completely weaned, not nursing at all, and they're eating and drinking completely on their own.  Thyme will be living with Delilah until she gets picked up. The boy gets his own cage, but we'll be giving the three of them time together in the playpen up until they hit 6 weeks - then the boy is on his own.

Also, Plumeria needs a bad so badly, haha. :lol:


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## Tabi

Oh i know. By the time the kids are weaned, mom's like OKAY GET AWAY FROM ME. I can imagine though. They're always crawling on her for six weeks. She probably gets two seconds of sleep!


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## moxieberry

Oops, typo. Needs a *bath*, lol!


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## moxieberry

The babies are 6 weeks old and doing great! Here's a short video of the dark girl, Thyme. She'll be getting picked up by Happy Hedgies next week. She's such a little doll!


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## Tym4myself

She is SO cute!


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