# Herc is sick....again :(



## hercsmom (Jul 6, 2010)

Hi guys,

Looks like I'm off to the vet today, my boy is sick. Sunday night, he was sniffling a little bit, and sneezing. Still wheeling and eating like normal, everything else was normal. Last night, he developed these crazy full on sneezes. And not just one or 2 sneezes, but like 5 or 6 in a row. He's also now licking his chops like crazy, and has a drippy nose. So, I phoned the vet this morning and she's going to let me come in and pick up some baytril for Herc. Hercules has been with us since June, and without fail, I go to the vet's every 2 months because he's sick. I just wish I could figure out what's wrong with him......


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## schmelderz (Jul 7, 2010)

Oh no... Poor dear Herc.  I really hope you find out what's wrong


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## hercsmom (Jul 6, 2010)

In the summer the vet did a swab off his snotty nose, and sent it to the lab. It came back as e-coli. She said he probably has severe allergies, but I just don't know if that's it, or if there is something else I can do to help him? He is pretty sensitive to almost everything we give him. So much so that I have to clean his wheel in only hot water, anything else sends him into a sneezing fit. When I put flaxseed on him and his food, he had a sneezing fit. It makes me very reluctant to try new things with him because I don't want him to have a reaction to it. At least the vet is understanding, and lets me go in to pick up Baytril without bringing Herc in, it's -25 celcius here today!


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## susanaproenca (Aug 14, 2010)

Im sorry to hear about Hercules and I definitely feel your pain. Mustard has been with us since July 2010 and has been treated for URI three times. I really wish I could figure out a way to keep her healthier all the time.


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## hercsmom (Jul 6, 2010)

susanaproenca said:


> Mustard has been with us since July 2010 and has been treated for URI three times. I really wish I could figure out a way to keep her healthier all the time.


Same with us Susana, every 2 months on queue he gets sick. I'm going to ask the vet about it when I see her later.


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## MissC (Nov 15, 2010)

Your poor little guys...must be so hard to see them sick so often...Jamie soemtimes comes up with fairly innovative ideas on what's what...we have an hour long drive in a few minutes...I will get him started on it!


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## hercsmom (Jul 6, 2010)

MissC said:


> Jamie soemtimes comes up with fairly innovative ideas on what's what...we have an hour long drive in a few minutes...I will get him started on it!


Sweet, any advice or input is always appreciated. Have fun in Calgary!


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## PJM (May 7, 2010)

Poor baby, I hope he feels better soon.


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## hercsmom (Jul 6, 2010)

*UPDATE*

Just got off the phone with the vet, and I have to say this vet is perhaps the greatest person alive. She suggested he take Novo-Trimel instead of Baytril, as when he was originally given Novo-Trimel it gave about the same relief period, 2 months. She doesn't want to make him immune to the Baytril by giving it to him every 2 months, because then if he gets really sick we can't use that. She suggested giving him green leafy veggies for vitamin a. I also asked her about Sunshine Factor, and she said she thought that was a great idea to boost his immunity. As a bonus it's very tasty, so Herc might actually eat it. She said if he were a cat or dog she would anesthetize him, flush out his nose and do some x-rays to see if he has an abnormality within the nasal cavity that causes him to keep getting sick, but Herc is too small for that, and something so tiny might not even show up on an x-ray. Also, even if we did the x-rays, which are very expensive here ($200), she doesn't think that will prevent him from getting sick in the future. So...long story short, I'm going there after work without Herc to pick up some novo-trimel and sunshine factor. Thanks everyone!


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## susanaproenca (Aug 14, 2010)

That's so good that you have such a good vet. I hope Hercules will feel better soon. I have been giving Mustard Sunshine Factor since mid December... last time she got sick was on the first week of December. Hopefully they both will get a little stronger.


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## abrowndog (Nov 26, 2010)

Best wishes to you and that cutie pie of yours!


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## teencie (Aug 22, 2010)

that's nice to hear your vet is so good! i'm in edmonton too -- do you mind me asking where you take him? i hope he starts to feel better, poor little guy


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## hercsmom (Jul 6, 2010)

Hi guys, thanks 4 all the well wishes. Although, you would all be telling Herc he's a bad boy if you would have seen the carry on I had trying to syringe his meds to him.  

Teencie-we go to Dr.Pettiphor at Ottewell Animal Clinic. I just adore her, and so does Herc.I call her the hedgie whisperer.


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## MissC (Nov 15, 2010)

hercsmom said:


> you would all be telling Herc he's a bad boy if you would have seen the carry on I had trying to syringe his meds to him. .


Hedgies are sooooo melodramatic.... :roll:


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## hercsmom (Jul 6, 2010)

MissC said:


> Hedgies are sooooo melodramatic.... :roll:


Seriously!


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## fracturedcircle (May 31, 2010)

poor sweetheart.  

Harvey had a URI back in July, but we've been lucky so far. *knocks on wood*


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## PJM (May 7, 2010)

I've been thinking about Herc quite a bit. I don't know if this will help at all...

My hubby has always had a lot of allergies. So much so, that when he gets to feeling bad for a while, we go on a rotation diet. I've done research on how to make him feel better. And basically, there are 2 types of allergies. 1 - you are allergic to something no matter what, even just a little exposure. 2 - you can tolerate small amounts periodically, but if exposed to something repeatedly or in large amounts, the allergies present themselves. 

I don't know if Herc's repeated illnesses have anything to do with allergies, but with his sensitivity, it made me wonder. Some of the most common things that people are allergic to are wheat, soy, nuts, eggs, fish, shellfish. Anyway, I was wondering about the ingredients in our kibble mixes. Maybe there's something that he's a little sensitive to that's in one or more of the kibbles?

Anyway, thought I would throw that out there.


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## RalphsMum (Oct 14, 2010)

How's Herc doing today?


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## hercsmom (Jul 6, 2010)

Herc is doing much better, I think, thanks for asking!  

He was still sneezy last night, but not as bad as it has been. And, he played ALL NIGHT LONG! Strangest thing though, he usually will spend hours on his wheel, but last night he spent hours pushing his tp tube back and forth across his cage. Woke me up at 2 in the morning, he was so loud! At least his energy is back up, and he is eating and pooping like normal, so that's good.

The vet did say he is allergic, but we can't figure out to what (based on the swab she did last time). That's a good idea PJ, maybe it is something in his food? He's on a mix of Chicken Soup Lite, Blue Spa Select Weight Control, Innova Weight Control, and a tiny bit of Ultra-8 Hedgehog food. I'll take a peek at the ingredients lists when I get home. Good suggestion!


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## smhufflepuff (Aug 28, 2008)

If it turns out to be the food, http://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/catfor ... lergy.html might help.


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## MissC (Nov 15, 2010)

smhufflepuff said:


> If it turns out to be the food, http://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/catfor ... lergy.html might help.


I will gladly ship you half a bag of Green Pea & Duck.

It's healthy, therefore... :roll:

Yup...Snarf wouldn't even smell it. Little rotter.


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## fracturedcircle (May 31, 2010)

the thing is--Harvey is also allergic to... well, to something. so when we thought he had a relapse in his URI condition, it was really an allergic reaction.


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## PJM (May 7, 2010)

OK, I looked up the ingredients to see if anything jumped out at me. Most of the ingredients are in at least 2 of the kibbles, like chicken, turkey, fish, barley, rice, potatoes, oatmeal, blueberries, cranberries, egg, kelp, carrots, peas, apples, parsley, yucca, chicory, rosemary, alfalfa & taurine. 

Unique to the Innova is Pumpkin, cottage cheese & sunflower oil.
Unique to Chicken soup lite is tomato & dried skim milk
Unique to Blue Spa weight control is Tumeric

What stood out to me, personally, was the corn, corn gluten meal & wheat flour that's all found only in the 8 in 1 Ultra blend select. I say that because, not only are wheat & corn common allergens in people, but also a lot of people are allergic to gluten. 

So, if Herc has food allergies, were a human & I were a betting woman, I would say to take out the 8 in 1 Ultra completely. As an experiment. At least it can't hurt.  

And if it helps - I'll be able to tell my hubby that all his suffering has been worthwhile. :lol:


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## MissC (Nov 15, 2010)

PJM said:


> And if it helps - I'll be able to tell my hubby that all his suffering has been worthwhile. :lol:


Maybe HE should lay off the 8in1!! :lol:


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## PJM (May 7, 2010)

MissC said:


> PJM said:
> 
> 
> > And if it helps - I'll be able to tell my hubby that all his suffering has been worthwhile. :lol:
> ...


 :lol: What!? No more "Mystery Meat Mondays!?" :lol:


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## hercsmom (Jul 6, 2010)

You guys are all genius. I'm going to try taking away the ultra 8 and see if that helps. And, thanks to the generosity of MissC, I'm going to try the natural balance too. Thanks everyone, you guys are really great!


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## hercsmom (Jul 6, 2010)

*Re: Herc is sick....again  *UPDATE**

Ok...so we're 1 week into novo-trimel, no 8 in 1, and the sniffles are getting worse! He sneezes a lot while he's on his wheel, so I've been trying to keep it ultra clean. Does novo-trimel take a week to kick in, our is it not helping? Or maybe, is Herc getting sicker? Any more ideas guys?


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## susanaproenca (Aug 14, 2010)

I feel like I can't help at all here, just wanted to bump it for you. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable will help. 

Just an idea: any candles you have in your house, or any other scented thing? Even in a different room? I don't know, I'm just speculating now... :? I do hope he starts feeling better soon!


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## hercsmom (Jul 6, 2010)

Nope, no candles, potpourri, nothing like that. A friend had a suggestion though that it sounded like a tumor in the sinuses? Has anyone had experience with this?


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## SnufflePuff (Apr 16, 2009)

hercsmom said:


> Ok...so we're 1 week into novo-trimel, no 8 in 1, and the sniffles are getting worse! He sneezes a lot while he's on his wheel, so I've been trying to keep it ultra clean. Does novo-trimel take a week to kick in, our is it not helping? Or maybe, is Herc getting sicker? Any more ideas guys?


In my opinion, Novo-trimel is the SLOWEST working antibiotic EVER. My hedgies (x3) too have had way more URI's than any hedgehog should and each time my vet has only given me novo-trimel. The last time, when all 3 of my hedgehogs had URI's, they were on the novo-trimel for like a month each before all traces of the URI's finally cleared up.

Actually what I found finally did the trick was when the vet prescribed something called Recovery. It's by Heal-x/Avi whatever (the makers of Sunshine Factor) but it's stronger and more of a treatment whereas Sunshine Factor is more of a skin/coat supplement.

There's actually testimonials right on the website of a vet who used it on a hedgehog to treat a URI.

I found the combination of the Novo-trimel and the recovery was what finally got my hedgies over the URI's and they haven't really gotten one since, a little sneezy sometimes but nothing full-blown that has required anitbiotics since then (this was last April when they all got sick). my vet actually recommended giving them the recovery FIRST when I suspect an imminent URI and this has seemed to work thus far.

Best of luck!


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## SnufflePuff (Apr 16, 2009)

SnufflePuff said:


> hercsmom said:
> 
> 
> > Ok...so we're 1 week into novo-trimel, no 8 in 1, and the sniffles are getting worse! He sneezes a lot while he's on his wheel, so I've been trying to keep it ultra clean. Does novo-trimel take a week to kick in, our is it not helping? Or maybe, is Herc getting sicker? Any more ideas guys?
> ...


I'm a lier, it's called Booster, not Recovery :roll: . I work at a vet clinic and always get my names of things mixed up :lol:

... and it even says on the websites it helps prevent allergies... here ya go!

http://www.exoticdvm.com/index.cfm?...ction&productGroup_id=122&parentGroup_id=126&

And here's the hedgehog testimonial: 
Upper Respiratory Infection in a Hedgehog
"I always like updates, so here's one regarding a case I posted earlier. This is was about a little hedgehog with an upper respiratory infection and wheezing. I couldn't get the little guy to take anything (medications) orally. He LOVES the Healx Booster and has been getting several drops of that daily. He has also been drinking water that I have treated with Baytril. He's doing much better but still a little sniffily, so I plan to keep him on the baytril-treated water for a total of about a month."
JC Burcham, DVM


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## hercsmom (Jul 6, 2010)

Thanks SnufflePuff!

I'm waiting for my vet to get out of surgery and call me back, but I will mention this to her. Last night was terrible for the sneezing. I feel bad for saying this, but Herc just about drove me crazy with them! :lol: I eventually put in earplugs around 2 in the morning. But, he still wheels and eats like normal, so at least he must be feeling ok. I'll keep you guys posted.


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## hercsmom (Jul 6, 2010)

***ANOTHER UPDATE***

Hi all,

So we switched over to the Baytril last night, the vet let me come pick some up without bringing in Herc. He had his first dose last night. I think we may have accidently stumbled onto something though.

It was about 3 o'clock this morning, and Herc was sniffling really bad. He was still running and eating, but his little sniffles sounded watery. Hubby made a comment that it's always super dry in the house, and how we both usually wake up with dry throats, so he turned on this new humidifier he got us. Well, within about a half hour Herc stopped sneezing and sniffling. I never heard a peep out of him for the rest of the night. Do you guys think maybe this whole time it was just too dry?


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## MissC (Nov 15, 2010)

Oh for the love of Pete...could it be that simple??!!

I don't know why I have this urge to blame it on Herc...but...c'mon...worrying mum all cuz of DRY AIR???!!!! Little rotter.

I'm going to buy a humid-thingy...to read the humidity...for crying out loud!!! what're they called???

We have two HUGE aquariums but maybe...just maybe...


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## hercsmom (Jul 6, 2010)

I guess only time will tell, but if it is really that simple....WOW!!!!!!!


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

MissC said:


> I'm going to buy a humid-thingy...to read the humidity...for crying out loud!!! what're they called???.


Hygrometer! :lol: And the only reason I know that at all is because I bought one for my room as well. My manager at the pet store I work at asked me when I bought it if humidity was that important for hedgehogs, and if you solve it by misting the cage like with reptiles. Quickly negated the cage misting, but told her that it seemed to help with dry skin issues a lot. I have a humidifier in my room as well, and keep the humidity around 40%. I can't figure out how dryness would cause sneezing though! I hope that's the solution though... Good luck!


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## hercsmom (Jul 6, 2010)

Lilysmommy said:


> I can't figure out how dryness would cause sneezing though! I hope that's the solution though... Good luck!


Neither can I, but at this point I'll try anything.


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## ThePliny (Jun 3, 2010)

For heavens sake Herc, you are from Africa... you know AFRICA, the Saharan part. Where it is DRY and DESERT-like! Honestly. Ridiculous little animals. :lol:


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## hercsmom (Jul 6, 2010)

ThePliny said:


> For heavens sake Herc, you are from Africa... you know AFRICA, the Saharan part. Where it is DRY and DESERT-like! Honestly. Ridiculous little animals. :lol:


BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

:lol:

Ok, I needed that laugh this morning, as today has been pretty crap-tacular so far. They're so spoiled, aren't they?


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## MissC (Nov 15, 2010)

hercsmom said:


> Ok, I needed that laugh this morning, as today has been pretty crap-tacular so far. They're so spoiled, aren't they?


YOUR day has been craptacular??? Did you SEE my post about Snarf's two hour, cage-destroying, quill-poking, hufftacular hissy fit this morning... :roll:

'We' were a teensy bit dramatic this morning... :roll: If he could at least wait for these little outbursts until I've at least had a coffee...I can't even think and there he is: glaring up accusingly at me...rotter.


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## fracturedcircle (May 31, 2010)

MissC said:


> hercsmom said:
> 
> 
> > 'We' were a teensy bit dramatic this morning... :roll: If he could at least wait for these little outbursts until I've at least had a coffee...I can't even think and there he is: glaring up accusingly at me...rotter.


 :lol:


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## suwanee (Nov 15, 2010)

ThePliny said:


> For heavens sake Herc, you are from Africa... you know AFRICA, the Saharan part. Where it is DRY and DESERT-like! Honestly. Ridiculous little animals. :lol:


HAHAHAHAHAHAHaaaaa.....Pliny, I was thinking the same thing! Perhaps they like to vacation in Crete.


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## hercsmom (Jul 6, 2010)

So, as it turns out to be just my luck, the humidifier is probably not the solution after all. The sneezes were back last night, but it seems like he only sneezes when he's running. I wonder if it's like an exercise induced asthma?


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## MissC (Nov 15, 2010)

hercsmom said:


> So, as it turns out to be just my luck, the humidifier is probably not the solution after all. The sneezes were back last night, but it seems like he only sneezes when he's running. I wonder if it's like an exercise induced asthma?


It would make sense...can you, dare I ask, take out Herc's wheel for a night? I'm thinking he might sneeze shortly after wheeling, so even if you don't hear the wheel at 4am, the sneezing could still be related to exercise. Does that make any sense?


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## hercsmom (Jul 6, 2010)

MissC said:


> It would make sense...can you, dare I ask, take out Herc's wheel for a night? I'm thinking he might sneeze shortly after wheeling, so even if you don't hear the wheel at 4am, the sneezing could still be related to exercise. Does that make any sense?


It makes total sense, but I can't remove the wheel, unless I want him to wage a full scale war against me. Herc is an avid wheeler, we're talking 5-6 hours a night of running full out. He gets frantic when i take it out for a midnight cleaning, and that's only for 5 minutes. I think he would lose his mind if I took away his wheel. I can actually hear him running at night, and it really seems as if the only time he's sneezing now is while running. Wonder if there's a little hedgie sized Advair I could get him? :lol:


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## MissC (Nov 15, 2010)

Little rotter. You said exactly what I guessed you would say. :roll: 

Tomorrow, I'll ask Snarf's vet about miniature inhalers...I will try to look serious and keep a straight face...I'll try...and I've never met her before...should be worth the $80 I'm spending just to get Snarfer in the door. :lol:


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## hercsmom (Jul 6, 2010)

MissC said:


> Tomorrow, I'll ask Snarf's vet about miniature inhalers...I will try to look serious and keep a straight face...I'll try...and I've never met her before...should be worth the $80 I'm spending just to get Snarfer in the door. :lol:


Priceless...would love to see the look on her face when you ask that one! :lol:


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## fracturedcircle (May 31, 2010)

we've tried an inhaler for Lance (a nebulizer really), so i could give you more info about that.


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## MissC (Nov 15, 2010)

fracturedcircle said:


> we've tried an inhaler for Lance (a nebulizer really), so i could give you more info about that.


 :shock: 
We were just kidding about an inhaler. :? 
uuummm...I know HM is wondering too...how big is it? Is it really, really teeny? :lol: 
No...really...can we see a pic of it beside a hedgie? :lol:


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## fracturedcircle (May 31, 2010)

MissC said:


> fracturedcircle said:
> 
> 
> > we've tried an inhaler for Lance (a nebulizer really), so i could give you more info about that.
> ...


no, the hedgie actually goes *inside* the setup. here, can you view it? http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=3 ... 10&theater

he had a horrible reaction to the med, poor boy, so we stopped it.


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## MissC (Nov 15, 2010)

Well...son of a gun. Who knew?

Kinda like a asthma closet!


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## hercsmom (Jul 6, 2010)

Wow.....all I have to say about that one.  

I came across an article online this morning about Baytril not being used in young puppies because it breaks down cartilage in the nose. I wonder if that's what happened to Herc, and now we've permanently destroyed some cartilage? This will be the 4th time he's been on Baytril and he's only 14 months old.


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## MissC (Nov 15, 2010)

hercsmom said:


> Wow.....all I have to say about that one.
> 
> I came across an article online this morning about Baytril not being used in young puppies because it breaks down cartilage in the nose. I wonder if that's what happened to Herc, and now we've permanently destroyed some cartilage? This will be the 4th time he's been on Baytril and he's only 14 months old.


Would explain the sneezing...you know how you sneeze when your nose is a little irritated?? You may be onto something...


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## hercsmom (Jul 6, 2010)

MissC said:


> Would explain the sneezing...you know how you sneeze when your nose is a little irritated?? You may be onto something...


I really hope I'm not on to something. I would feel horribly guilty if I caused this.


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## MissC (Nov 15, 2010)

hercsmom said:


> I really hope I'm not on to something. I would feel horribly guilty if I caused this.


uuummm...scuse me...but, really: YOU didn't *cause *anything...giving medications to a sick hedgie is just a necessary evil...cause-shmause....so quit it.

Is your vet really, really good? Like, really good? If so, maybe if she doesn't have a ready answer, she may be able to find out if it could've been the Baytril. I can also add it to my list of 27 questions for the vet visit on Saturday. I'm going to call and disguise my voice and book the next 6 appointments AFTER Snarf's so she can't try to show me the door before all my questions are answered. Pretty smart, eh?


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## hercsmom (Jul 6, 2010)

MissC said:


> I'm going to call and disguise my voice and book the next 6 appointments AFTER Snarf's so she can't try to show me the door before all my questions are answered. Pretty smart, eh?


Smart thinking! So we all have about a day or so to get our list of questions ready?


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## RedHeadPixie (Jan 25, 2009)

I know you said you love your vet, but have you thought about getting a second opinion? If you are concerned that the Baytril has caused an issue, it might be worth having someone else take a look at Herc and get an outside perspective on the situation.

Dr. Teresa Bosquet at the Park Veterinary Clinic is fantastic with hedgies. We've taken all our guys to her for everything from mites, to infected feet, to the day that our eldest one passed away. I trust her implicitly with them.


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