# New to hedgehogs



## moorea

Hello All!

We have a hedgehog coming in July or August and I have been looking over this board for a few weeks now. I have done a bit of research but I am unsure about a bunch of things. So I figured I would post were I am at to get some feedback!

For heating:
-*Zoo Med ReptiCare Ceramic Infrared Heat Emitter 150 Watts*(it gets chilly here in montana, so I thought 150 watss would be better then 100, Zilla makes one as well, is that a better choice or is it OK to save a few dollars on the less expensive Zoo Med)
-*Zilla Temperature Controller*
*-Zoo Med Deluxe Dimmable Clamp Lamp with 8.5-Inch Dome, Black*

I've read they require daylight, but I am not sure what would be best. Do thye require UVB, UVA or anything in particular, what would be the best choice here?

*Flying Saucer Small Animal Toy, Large*

I am going back and forth on the bedding. The bedding at the pet store might be easier, but we live 45 minutes from town and fleece is washable.

As for a snuggle sack and hedgie hat are both required? Does he/she sleep in the snuggle sack or is a mini pet bed required?

As for Cage... I am planning on doing the plastic bins. The plan is to do a 95 qt. (29"L x 18"W x 13.3"H) with PVC going to a 30 qt. (16.7"L x 13.3"W x 11.3"H) how big does the PVC need to be for him/her to fit in it, and how much of angle can it be at (the smaller bin will be raised above the larger one, the dresser it will sit on has two levels) Do these need to be covered? If so I will likely make some kind of screen covering for them so will a screen cover be safe?

I did see a really cool habitat while doing research for my son's chameleon, they are very cheap for the sizes, but I think the screening would be dangerouse for little hedgehod toe nails, a video of the habitat can be seen here, if I am wrong and it is safe, please let me know:






The breader has suggested for food, Purina indoor cat food or Fristkies indoor cat food. As for treats we have plenty of crickets, mailworms and super worms for the chameleon. I do have one concern, the crickets are sprinkled with calcium powder, will this be OK for the hedgie or do I need to keep seperate cricket habitats as well.

So what other supplies and toys are suggested!


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## MoonBean

I don't think the foods recommended by your breeder are ones endorsed much on this site. You need to make sure the dry cat food for your hedgie has no corn, and the first ingredient must be meat. Those cat foods can cost a little more, but my hedgehog only eats a little over a tablespoon each night, so one small bag of premium cat food will last a long time. There is a really good list on this forum, under diet and nutrition, and try mixing a better food with whatever the breeder has been feeding him to make the change gradual.

I LOVE fleece. The other beddings are messy and a waste. I do one load of hedgie laundry a week including his hedgie sacks, blankets, and liners. I have a bunch of liners so I can swap them out whenever they get dirty, but once a day at most really. Some people layer their liners and just pull off the top one as it gets dirty, but I have a liner diving little boy who loves to get under the liners and move them around to suit himself, so I just spend a few minutes changing the liner every day when I am cleaning his wheel and changing his food and water.

Good luck with your new hedgehog! I never knew how much I would love mine


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## moorea

Thanks for the advise on the food, I thought that sounded like a cheap food. We always feed our Dogs the best quality food there is and will do the same for the hedgie. 
Do you cut your fleece into strips for bedding or just lay it down whole?
Any other advise on toys or supplies or habitats are welcome!
Whats the best thermometer to use?


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## CanadienHedgie

1) If you use a Ceramic Heat Emitter, make sure there is NO light being given off, only heat. 150 is better then 100, but if you have a large cage, you will need a high wattage or more then one. 

2) I like the ReptiTemp 500r, but as long as the Zilla Temperature Controller automatically turns on and off when it gets to a certain temperature (23-25 C) it's fine. 

3) I'd recommend the 10 inch dome. It spreads the heat out more.

4) They require 12-14 hours of daylight. You don't need to use a fancy light, just a regular ceiling light or lamp works perfect. The light would go on say at 8 AM and off at 8 PM.

5) The flying saucer is an alright wheel, but I wouldn't use it. It's hard for larger hedgies to use, and as of right now, we can't tell if it harms the hedgies to always run on an angle. The only wheel I really recommend is the Carolina Storm Wheel or Carolina Storm Bucket Wheel. But it's not always an option for everyone.

6) Fleece is defiantly the best and easiest option. You don't have to sew it, all you have to do is cut it to the size of the cage and you're good to go. Bedding isn't the safest option. Carefresh is generally too dusty, and there have been cases of hedgies eating it and getting a blockage. Cedar cannot be used, and pine shouldn't either. Aspen is safe to use, but isn't comfortable, and harbor mites (which then requires a vet visit). Fleece is comfortable, easy to spot clean, and cheaper because you can just keep reusing it. When you wash the fleece though, wash it with scent free detergent. Some people use a vinegar solution.

7) Most people use an igloo. But you must have something for them to hide in. 

8) I don't use plastic bins, but I've read that you can't use a Ceramic Heat Emitter with a bin, it's not safe. Hedgehogs need a minimum of 2 square feet of space AFTER everything is in the cage. A PVC pipe isn't good for a ramp, because there is no traction, and it'd probably be to steep. A plastic dryer vent tube works great. If you use bins, you have to drill holes in the sides because they do not have good ventilation. A lot of hedgies won't use an additional level. It's safer if they are covered, because hedgies do find ways out of the cage, and it prevents other animals from getting at them. You couldn't put a CHE on screen though. 

9) The screening looks like it would be dangerous for a hedgies toenails.

10) Both those foods are crap. There is a list on here of the foods that are recommend.
Protein cannot be higher then 34%, and shouldn't be lower then 30%
Fat should be between 10-15%
There can't be any animal by-products, wheat or corn. 
The first ingredient needs to be real meat (Turkey, chicken, etc).
The second ingredient should be real meat, but needs to be a meat source (Turkey meal, chicken meal, duck meal, etc.)

11) Crickets and mealworms are good. But mealworms are high in fat, so you need to watch how many you feed. Freeze dried insects can cause blockages, so live is better and safer. Super worms have to have the head cut off (I think it's super worms :roll: ). I don't know anything about the calcium powder, but I'd assume it should be separated. 

12) The main things you need are:

Solid, 12" wheel
Igloo or hedgie hat or sleeping bag
Heavy (ceramic) food and water dish (water bottles aren't safe)
Fleece liners (or other bedding, but fleece is highly recommended)
Fleece strips - hedgies like to burrow and cuddle with them/drag them around
Thermostat - to maintain the temperature, it must automatically turn off and on
CHE - to heat the cage
High quality cat food
*You'll need to cover the cage when the light is turned off if you still use the room.**
Something to run through (PVC pipe, crinkle tunnel)

If you use cat balls, they have to be solid, otherwise the hedgies toes/nose can get caught and causes serious injuries. 

Make sure you use fleece if you use fabric, because there cannot be any threads hanging around because they can get caught on a hedgies toes/feet, which can require amputation.

Last tip, always have at least $200 for a vet visit.

Oh, and, for bathing your hedgie, you'll want to get "Aveeno Scent Free body wash" and a toothbrush. You don't want to give many baths though, because they dry out the skin.


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## moorea

Wow, lots of useful info! It will take a while to absorb it all.

I was actually think of using two heaters, 150 watts over the big bin and 75 watts over the smaller one and probably just put the day light over the large bin.

The two controllers I saw on Amazon were the Zilla and the Zoo Med, the zilla seemed to have better reviews, but I will definately check out the reptiTemp!

10" inch dome it is!

Glad to hear fleece is the way to go, as that is what I was leaning towards!

I'm fairly certain my daughter already picked out an Igloo, I should have put that on my original list.

I had seen some posts that the bins were OK with the CHE as long as they do not touch. It is our plan to hang the lighting over the setup. We are however going to have everything setup at least two weeks before our hedgie arrives, so if anything does not seem right we can make a change! This way if the CHE's are to hot for the bins we will know! We do plan to drill holes all the way around each bin! One of the reasons I wanted to go with the bins as keeping heat in will be a job. It gets pretty cold here and is VERY dry. We just finished setting up my sons Chameleon tank and invested an additional $500 then expected trying to keep the glass tank warm enough (and it is summer time now) and moist enough. So I am not to worried about keeping the bins dry, but it will be much easier to heat if it is solid as opposed to a wire setup.

As for cat food, I think I will go with the same brand we are using for the Dogs now. It costs much more then the cheaper brands, but is worth it!

As for the Vet, we have 2 labs, 2 beagles, a chameleon and a parot, and a revolving line of credit at the vets. I have already asked and they do see Hedgehogs!

Thanks again for all the info!


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## moorea

One last thought... where is the best place to buy the little hedgie saks and other hedgie stuff?


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## CanadienHedgie

You can't buy them at pet store usually. Though sometimes they have them in the ferret section. But you can buy them from people on here that sew them. Just look in the for sale section, and there's quite a few people that do it.


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## awbat3

nikki of quillnthings is really good. she has alot of experience

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=6690
http://www.quillsnthings.webs.com/

I however, am in IL, and was afraid the shipping would be too expensive (poor college student lol) I got custom made bags from sweetteascraps. I love her! She completed my custom orders in less than 2 days, then they arrived 2 days after that. She did the2 bags each for $6, and shipping total was $4

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=8295
sweetteascraps.etsy.coms

hope this helps!


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## moorea

The only pet store we have in 100 mile radius is PetCo and I have not seen anything there worth buying for a hedgehog.

I have had very good luck on etsy for other things in the past, so I think I will contact her. The hedgie is for my 14 year old daughter (with our guidance of course) and she is very into peace signs, so maybe she can custom make something in peace signs.

I noticed she has a "Heart Patterned Snugglie Tunnel for Rats, Guinea Pigs, and Hedgehogs" 
http://www.etsy.com/listing/74680636/he ... l-for-rats

Would something like that owrk well as an igloo for a hide?


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## awbat3

i think if you have the room for it yeah. im in the process of building a c&c cage, because pirate's cage at the moment is wayyy to small =( I'm not sure if the 4'' diameter on the tunnel is wide enough. My hedgie is quite large for a baby, but thats just me. 

you want to make sure that once everything is in the cage, you have like 2 square feet of space they can move around in. the igloo and tunnel could take up a bit of room, but if they both fit then yay! I know alot of people use the pvc pipe tunnels as well.

when I had her make my bags, I asked for her to make them bigger because he is so large. She made them 11x11. In hindsight, maybe it is bigger than needed, but at least he can really snuggle in and hide pretty well


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## moorea

Well mine isn't born yet... so can the bag be too big if my hedgie isn't very big? If not I will just ask her to go bigger on the bag to be safe. If 4" for the tunnel might not be big enough, what would be good? That is why I love etsy the artists never have a problem doing custom stuff, at least I have not met one that has!

So if I understand correctly, the tunnel will not replace the igloo, both are needed?


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## Joe17

What's wrong with pine shavings and a water bottle? I thought you can use Aspen or pine and that a hedgehog can use a water bottle if they prefer it. Just curious because I am fairly new to hedgehogs also.


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## awbat3

There are some health concerns over shavings.I had them, and hated them.they got everywhere! Fleece is easier.and now I can see pirates lost quills, he is quilling.

Pirate didn't know how to use a water bottle, his mom didn't teach him.


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## Sarahg

Joe17 said:


> What's wrong with pine shavings and a water bottle? I thought you can use Aspen or pine and that a hedgehog can use a water bottle if they prefer it. Just curious because I am fairly new to hedgehogs also.


Wood shavings are very messy and dusty, they can harbor mites and cause respitory problems. It's also not uncommon to find sharp pieces in the bag that you're hedgie can get hurt on.

Water bottles are thought to cause an unnatural drinking position - they don't have an easy time putting their head up to drink like mice and hamsters do. Some hedgehogs can't get enough water out of the bottles and have chipped teeth and cut themselves biting at the bottle to try to get more, and again - their teeth don't grow back like rodents' do, when they break/fall out they are gone.


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## panda

fleece liners as well as sleeping sacks and blankets are fairly easy to make on your own as well, i made mine with no to minimal sewing.
i bought just two yards of material to start myself off with and i made two liners and plenty of blankies as well as two bags and still have scraps left over. 
the only sewing i did was to make some stitches to keep the batting in my liners in place.
what i did was cut strips on the edges to tie knots with.
i also had bedding for maybe a day before getting rid of it haha.. it was just messy and terrible. plus it would get in Norma's quills and feet and come out of the cage with her.. it was just a mess, plus i think hedgehogs prefer snuggling with the fleece.

you really only need one hide but i personally have one actual hide and also have hedgie bag/blankies outside of the hide so theres more than one place for my hog to hide.

theres a section here where people have posted pictures of their setups you may want to check that out for some ideas, it really helped me a lot when i first was getting things situated, and i would say that the bins are probably much lower on the totem pole for a quality habitat but some people say it works for them. C&C are just as cost effective and have a lot more plus sides then the bins, i have a My First Home XL and my hog is totally happy with it, although i personally wish i could give her more room like the C&Cs provide... because i tend to spoil my pets i probably will eventually do so when i have more space.
i think if the cage is a bit on the smaller side that as long as you give them plenty of time daily outside of the cage it is ok. while my cage is considered large enough i still give Norma lots of outside time so she doesnt feel confined and it makes me feel less bad about not giving her the enormous cage i wish i could. :roll:


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## moorea

I will definately be going fleece, it sounded like the best idea to begin with and the posts to this thread have made me feel very good about that choice. But if we love our hedgie as much as the rest of the creatures in our ZOO, then it deserves better them me sewing for it. I am sure it is easy for most, but sewing and me do not agree. The funny thing is I manage 6 different embroidery and quilting supply websites for various customers and I cant sew a stitch! The ones on etsy are not very expensive and I'd rather spend the $5 dollars then have to sew myself.

I did look at the cage setups and there were so many different setups and so many nice ones. 

I have noticed that the bins are not the most popular choice, but after the nightmare we just went through trying to get the proper setup to heat my sons chameleon in a glass cage, I have no clue how we hold heat in a wire setup. Granted the chameleon needs to be kept 15 - 20 degrees warmer then the hedgie, but it is summer time now, there is NO way I will be able to keep a hedgie at 75 degrees in a wire setup come winter.

Size is not an issue, as long as I have a setup that can hold the heat in we will make ours with plenty of extra space for our new friend to roam. 

I also now know that humidity will not be an issue it is very dry here. It has been raining all week but even so, the humidity reading in the chameleons glass cage was reading 10% after a misting (the humidity gauge has a 'desert' section, a 'normal' section and a 'tropical' setting, 10% is in the desert section. We had to get a mister that sprays for a few seconds every five minutes to keep it at the low end of tropical) 

If anybody has an idea of how I can heat a wire setup under our colder conditions, I am open to ideas! I do want our hedgie to have the best possible setup.


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## panda

for my wire cage for the winter i will be putting a fleece blanket over most of but not all of the wire to keep warm air in while still leaving some ventilation, it actually helps quite a bit.
i also have my hide set up to be a warm in winter/cool in summer hide... it has a heating pad underneath and has a stone floor and roof(i had old chinchillers lying around so we recycled them) to keep in heat. the pad will of course be hooked up to a thermostat. i can give you a link to it if youd like.
i cannot sew either, and i saved quite a bit of money doing them myself, 7 dollars/yard was all.
i know in the future i will buy some fancier sewn ones because i have looked at peoples shops online and absolutely love them, but since i had spent quite a bit on initial setups for Norma it was nice to save a little where a could. i could also link you to pictures to give you an idea of how it was done if you would like.
i have also heard of people using just one layer of fleece cut to size as well and works just fine. the more layered liners are great for the messier hedgies.


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## Joe17

So I can use Aspen just as much as I could use pine shavings. The way someone posted saying that cedar and pine are bad and you should just use Aspen. They both have the same pros and cons. I know some hedgehogs don't like bottles but some do. I know a great breeder who uses bottles depending on their preference and pine shavings and all 40 hedgehogs are doing fine!


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## CanadienHedgie

moorea said:


> If anybody has an idea of how I can heat a wire setup under our colder conditions, I am open to ideas! I do want our hedgie to have the best possible setup.


When you build a C&C cage, you use coroplast on the sides and bottom, so the hedgie can't get out or climb the sides. Where I live, my bedroom is super hot in the summer (but perfect for a hedgie), and freezing in the winter. For some reason it's just my bedroom, probably because it's the farthest room in the house and has 2 outside walls. Coroplast helps keep the heat in. The coroplast has to go up at least 8 inches, to prevent escaping.

zorropirate does this: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=11232
"I made a cover that goes around the sides to keep warm air in and drafts out. It's basically a blanket that I put elastic through the top and bottom hems and have little ties on it. So like a big wrap for the sides of the cage.

For the top I took a clear plastic sheet and cut a hole in it to go around the CHE and finished the edges with seam binding. I leave that on in the cold months during the day so the light can shine through."


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## CanadienHedgie

Joe17 said:


> So I can use Aspen just as much as I could use pine shavings. The way someone posted saying that cedar and pine are bad and you should just use Aspen. They both have the same pros and cons. I know some hedgehogs don't like bottles but some do. I know a great breeder who uses bottles depending on their preference and pine shavings and all 40 hedgehogs are doing fine!


Aspen is the only safe shavings. Pine and cedar cause respiratory problems, so they cannot be used. Shavings are not the best bedding for hedgehogs, because they harbor mites, which then requires a vet visit. However, if you are going to use shavings, aspen is the type you can use. When using shavings, you have to watch that they don't get little pieces stuck in the penis shaft. Fleece liners, are the safest, easiest and cheapest option. 

Drinking from a bottle isn't a natural drinking position for hedgies. It puts strain on their neck, and like someone already said, they can chip their teeth on the bottle while trying to get more water out. You don't want you're hedgie to chip their teeth. When a hedgie breaks their teeth, that's it, they don't grow back. This can cause problems, and you will have to change the diet from a high quality cat food to soft foods so they can eat. A bowl is the safest and most comfortable option. Plus, bottles leak, which makes the bedding soggy. The water has to be changed everyday. When getting any pet you have to use what's safest and best for them.

No offense or anything, but I don't know any good breeders that use bottles and pine shavings as they are not safe... :|


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## nikki

> Aspen is the only safe shavings. Pine and cedar cause respiratory problems, so they cannot be used


Pine is safe to use as long as its kiln dried. Pine that isn't kiln dried is not safe. You can usually tell by the smell if its kiln dried or not.


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## moorea

CanadienHedgie thanks for the photo. I will have to reconsider the C&C cage. I still have some reservations. First, does the hedgie feel isolated with the cage totally covered? When I was talking to the breeder, she said she likes them to be able see out and even the clear plastic makes it hard to see out. I would also be a little concerned about having the fabric so close to the heating and the lighting. FInally, I do not sew, not even a little and it looks like you did a bunch of sewing there! I have not ruled out the C&C and I am going to go back to the website to look but I am still a little concerened about the heating, we have at least one week if not a few every winter were the tempature is -35 to -40 degrees.


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## moorea

I have been looking at the carolina storm wheel. What is with the litter box underneath?? Will this replace the need for an additional litter box? If so it seems rather odd to have the hedgie walking through its pee and poo to use its wheel. We fully intend to clean the litter box daily, but I imagine it will want to use the wheel when there is pee or poo in the box if we have not cleaned it yet.

It seemed strange to me so I figured I'd ask!


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## CanadienHedgie

moorea said:


> I have been looking at the carolina storm wheel. What is with the litter box underneath?? Will this replace the need for an additional litter box? If so it seems rather odd to have the hedgie walking through its pee and poo to use its wheel. We fully intend to clean the litter box daily, but I imagine it will want to use the wheel when there is pee or poo in the box if we have not cleaned it yet.
> 
> It seemed strange to me so I figured I'd ask!


The reason for having a litter box under the wheel is because hedgies pee and poop when they are running on their wheel. You will have to clean the wheel everyday, because when you get up in the morning, it will be covered in poop. The litter box catches the poop that flies off. You won't need an additional litter box. The Carolina Storm Wheel is the best wheel and safest wheel you can get. Hedgies also get what's called "Poopy Boots" lol, and that's when their feet are covered in poop from running on their wheel all night. There is nothing you can do to prevent it. Don't give them a full bath though, just a foot bath. Which means you just put enough water in the tub to cover their feet, or you can let him/her walk around on a wet piece of paper towel.  They don't mind getting their feet covered in poop lol.


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## CanadienHedgie

moorea said:


> CanadienHedgie thanks for the photo. I will have to reconsider the C&C cage. I still have some reservations. First, does the hedgie feel isolated with the cage totally covered? When I was talking to the breeder, she said she likes them to be able see out and even the clear plastic makes it hard to see out. I would also be a little concerned about having the fabric so close to the heating and the lighting. FInally, I do not sew, not even a little and it looks like you did a bunch of sewing there! I have not ruled out the C&C and I am going to go back to the website to look but I am still a little concerened about the heating, we have at least one week if not a few every winter were the tempature is -35 to -40 degrees.


I personally think C&C cages are the best 'do it yourself' cage to use. You can make them as big as you want, and whatever shape you want, for not much money.

Hedgehogs are solitary, so being alone is fine for them. What I like to do is a bit different then the pictures shown. Everyone who uses a C&C cage uses coroplast so they can't climb to sides or escape. Because the coroplast is 8 inches up, they can't see out, and they don't mind. No one's ever had a problem with it 

I like to take a piece of fleece or a fleece blanket, and wrap in around the two sides and the back of the cage, leaving the front open. I cut a few holes in the fleece/blanket, and ziptie/cabletie it to the sides and top of the cage. You can also cut holes in the fleece and tie it with fleece strips to the cage.

It also gets that cold where I live, I use three Ceramic Heat Emitters. Two are 250 W and one is 100W.

You won't want the cage to be covered all the time, because then it would be dark 24/7 and they'd attempt hibernation because they need 12-14 hours of sunlight. But putting a blanket over the back and sides of the cage keeps the heat in, and allows light in. I don't cover the top, those are pictures someone else posted, I just cover the sides. Because it's only the three sides that are covered, it doesn't get to close to the CHE. Fleece holds heat in better then cotton as well, and you don't have to do any sewing. 

My cage does fine in -45 weather with the 3 CHE's and fleece around the 3 sides.


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## moorea

That is wonderful info! I new they poo'd on the wheel, but it seemed to me that putting the litter box right there was inviting them to walk through it. But if I had thought before I posted then I would have realized they are going to walk through it when they use they wheel any way... duh. And if it is the only litter box I will need, then that is a plus!

As for your C&C cage, if you get down to -45 degree, then I am modeling my cage after yours. I started looking at the C&C cages before you posted and I am leaning that way! If you are using two 250 W & 1 100W, it would help to know how big your setup is. I do not want to use that as model and find out I am ooking at something half the size as yours. I am thinking of going with something in the ball park of the Small C&C Cage Kit (Interior: 27" x 41") with the 1x2 Loft (Interior: 27" x 14") I do not think I am going to buy the loft kit, instead I am going to by the pieces from them to build the loft myself. It does not look to me like the rails on the ramp are high enough, I would rather use the plastic dryer tube and make sure there is no falling. So why pay for the ramp if I am not going to use it.

If you are so inclined please post photos are your setup. I loved to see what someone else who lives in the same hostile climate we do is doing! Are you guys getting a summer this year??? Doesn't look like we are!


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## moorea

Forgot a few questions:

1. Are you hanging the CHE's above the C&C cage?

2. Do you run all three all year round, or just the colder months (which for us is 7 - 8 mo's out of the year?

3. You mentioned that the fleece around the cage made it a little dark. I was planning to hang a day light over whatever my setup was, does this not solve that problem?


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## CanadienHedgie

moorea said:


> It would help to know how big your setup is. I do not want to use that as model and find out I am ooking at something half the size as yours. I am thinking of going with something in the ball park of the Small C&C Cage Kit (Interior: 27" x 41") with the 1x2 Loft (Interior: 27" x 14") I do not think I am going to buy the loft kit, instead I am going to by the pieces from them to build the loft myself. It does not look to me like the rails on the ramp are high enough, I would rather use the plastic dryer tube and make sure there is no falling. So why pay for the ramp if I am not going to use it.
> 
> If you are so inclined please post photos are your setup. I loved to see what someone else who lives in the same hostile climate we do is doing! Are you guys getting a summer this year??? Doesn't look like we are!


*First off, I'm going to tell you right now that this post is long and probably all over the place :roll: *

It's actually cheaper to buy the supplies from Walmart, Target, Home Depot, Rona, Zellers, Canadian Tire, etc. then to order them. My right now is:

28 inches wide by 42 inches long. It has a loft which is 14 inches wide by 20 inches long. And it has another loft which is 28 inches wide by 14 inches long.

Yesterday is was 28 inches wide by 42 inches long. And had a loft that was 14 inches wide by 20 inches long. I added the extra loft today. I'm still working on it though. I'll upload pictures of the different ways I've had my cage. For me, it's been a trial and error thing.

Actually, right now it's SUPER hot out. To the point where I feel like I'm going to die... :roll:



moorea said:


> Forgot a few questions:
> 
> 1. Are you hanging the CHE's above the C&C cage?
> 
> 2. Do you run all three all year round, or just the colder months (which for us is 7 - 8 mo's out of the year?
> 
> 3. You mentioned that the fleece around the cage made it a little dark. I was planning to hang a day light over whatever my setup was, does this not solve that problem?


1. I sit my CHE's on top of the cage, but the way it's designed now, one might have to be hung up. There ok to sit on top of a C&C cage as long as there isn't anything close to them. 

2. I just use them in the colder months. For me, I keep them out for January, February, March, April, May, I took them down at the beginning of June (we had snow in May...) and they will probably go back up in September. If it does by chance get cold in my room, I just toss a blanket over the cage, leaving a section open. http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/703/img0227il.jpg/ But it'd be fine to leave them up all the time, because they automatically turn on and off if you have a thermostat.

3.Having a light will solve the problem  Just make sure if the light is bright, it isn't directly at the cage. I will be using this lamp like this http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/220/img0230lg.jpg/ to get light into the area under the loft. I bought it for $12 lol. The lamp has two lights, a regular standing lamp and the "bendy light", which I bent down to get light in the one area. I have it on a christmas light timer. So it automatically turns on and off at 7AM and 7PM. It'll be to the side though, not infront of the cage, that'd get in the way.

Okay, so now for the different types of these cages I've had. All similar, but a bit different.

*This was the first "build and see if I like it cage".* http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/18/1090319.jpg/

It's 28 inches wide by 42 inches long and the loft is 14 inches wide by 28 inches long. 
The problems with this cage is:

1) The dryer vent tube is to long. The shorter it is, the better chance of a hedgie using it. 
2) The dryer vent is aluminum, which gets hot if a CHE is used.
3) It's really hard to heat. The loft is so high up, that it needs it's own CHE, and at least two others would be needed on the "main floor" of the cage.

*This was the second attempt*, and actually my favorite for ease of cleaning, heating and room. It's 28 inches wide by 42 inches long and the loft is 14 inches wide by 21 inches long. 
The problems with this cage is:

1) Same as #1 & #2 in the first cage.

But it's easier to heat. This is the cage I had up until today, I'm slowly changing it around, on break lol. I don't have the CHE's up because it's almost getting to the point where my room is TOO hot! In this picture, http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/809/1090347.jpg/ the black dots are where they are during winter. For some reason the vent tube wasn't in :? The black dot on the raised part of the cage (loft) is the 100W the other two are the 250W's. The are far enough from the sides, that you can wrap a blanket/fleece around the back and sides of the cage. I usually only wrapped it around the back and first square on each side

Side: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/860/img0225r.jpg/
You can see it around the back here (the hot pink dots) http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/707/img0224dn.jpg/
And the other side: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/98/img0223aa.jpg/

These pictures are of my new design, but same way to wrap the blanket around. *The blanket I'm wrapping around is a "no-sew fleece throw with fringe* if you google it, there's a ton of tutorials. I like it because I double it (strawberries on one side, polka dots on the other side) so it's warmer, and because it has the fringe, you can tie the strips around the bars of the cage. and it holds  I taught a friend of mine how to do this, and he hedgie likes to tug and pull on the strips when they're hanging through, it's cute. It wouldn't harm it because they aren't strong.

*This was the third attempt*, it lasted all of about an hour.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/268/1090581.jpg/
I tried to design this cage with a 1x2 loft above a 2x3 base. I wanted to have two raised sections, and was going to have aspen shavings in the middle to dig in. And I decided to have an extra area under the one level. But it failed miserably. It'd be to hard to heat because unlike the previous cage, it's 2 blocks high instead of 1.

*And this is the attempt I'm doing right now. * I ran out of squares, so just pretend the top is closed.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/848/1090590.jpg/

It's a 3x2 (all of my cages have been). There is a loft in the back right hand corner which is 1.5x1. There is a loft on the left side which is 1x2, and there is a closed in area under that loft which is also 1x2. The reason I closed it in, is because it'll be easy to keep warm. There is fleece all the way up the right side of that small area, and along the back. You can see it better in this picture: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/546/img0213hl.jpg/
(you'll prob want to open that picture in another link so you can see it while you read this) When I put my hand in that area once the "fleece wall" was up, it was nice and toasty in their. If it was especially cold out, I'd pull the fleece up the other side as well, and only leave the front open.

Above that little area is the loft. It has a fleece wall along the back and left side. I haven't figured out exactly how I'll do the connecting for those two areas yet.

On the other side of the cage, is the smaller loft (this is where the wheel goes). It has fleece along the back wall, halfway up. And 3/4 of the way up on the right side.

On the main area the entire back wall is covered in fleece and the entire right wall is covered (poorly) in fleece. The left side that is attached to the loft also has a half wall of fleece.

The fleece keeps it nice and warm, while still providing airflow and a lot of room to move around. To keep the fleece walls up, cut a small slit in the fleece and tie a strip of fleece through the hole to the side of the cage. Do it as many times as you need to.

I'll have clear plastic everywhere where there isn't fleece on the walls.

For CHE, I'll have to hang a 100W over the loft on the left, because other wise it'd be to close to the fleece that covers the "floor", I'll put a 100W ontop of the cage over the loft on the other side. I'm gunna cut the grids in the far right corner that are higher then the rest so it's the same as this one: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/809/1090347.jpg/ Only half a cube up, not a full cube. And I'll use a 250W over the other section (2x2) of the cage. It will be sitting directly on the cage as well.

I'm sure this is all really confusing... so ask questions if you need to.

Oh, and, if you make a storage area like I did http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/848/1090590.jpg/ on the bottom, it helps with heat. The floor is usually cold, so having it off the ground like that helps, plus it gives you space to put stuff. But if you don't want one, then just put a piece of fleece under the cage or a blanket, or towels (just make sure he/she can't get at the towels, because they're dangerous to their toe nails).


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## panda

canadienhedgie has some great tips there, and btw your c&c cage is too cute... did you wrap the fleece around the coroplast? it looks so cozy  

id also just add that it really depends on the temps of your home personally as to when and how you would need to use heating.. just because someone does their a certain way doesnt mean its the right way for the temps of your house. canadienhedgies house settings and temps may be very different from yours so that is also something you will have to consider and dabble with when you get your cage set up and as seasons change in your home. the best thing to do is to have some sort of digital thermometer for the cage, whether its a point and shoot or one with a probe set up with the cage constantly. something that can give you an acurate reading quickly... also thermostats for the CHE or any other heating devices are a must.


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## CanadienHedgie

panda said:


> canadienhedgie has some great tips there, and btw your c&c cage is too cute... did you wrap the fleece around the coroplast? it looks so cozy


When it's all done, the fleece will be wrapped around the coroplast. I just started this one today, so it's be a trial and error thing.


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## panda

well it looks like its turning out nicely, i clicked all the photo links and it just keeps improving


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## moorea

Panda, thanks for the input... I do understand that the temps where canadienhedgie is are probably different. But I have decided to base my basic concept as far as heating goes on canadienhedgie's setup as I have not seen too many other board members mention that they get several negative 45 degree days. If it is warmer here, it should not be a problem as I will have a controller on the CHE's. But it does give me a starting point.

canadienhedgie... I have read your entire post, but I think it will take me several hours to let it all sink in (probably read it two or three more times as well) before I ask questions. What did sink in... Snow in May! You were lucky, this year we got snow until June! HOT day, we have had two! It doesn't seem to want to get over 62 degrees and when it does it is muggy and yucky.


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## moorea

Panda, thanks for the input... I do understand that the temps where canadienhedgie is are probably different. But I have decided to base my basic concept as far as heating goes on canadienhedgie's setup as I have not seen too many other board members mention that they get several negative 45 degree days. If it is warmer here, it should not be a problem as I will have a controller on the CHE's. But it does give me a starting point.

canadienhedgie... I have read your entire post, but I think it will take me several hours to let it all sink in (probably read it two or three more times as well) before I ask questions. What did sink in... Snow in May! You were lucky, this year we got snow until June! HOT day, we have had two! It doesn't seem to want to get over 62 degrees and when it does it is muggy and yucky.


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## panda

of course, and her setup is a good one to look at for ideas  .. when you asked her when she turned them off and such by how it sounded as i read it i wasnt sure if you were just asking for fyi or if you wanted to go exactly by the same routine.


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## moorea

Yup, just an FYI to get a general idea of what to expect when those impossibly cold days visit us. The plan is, if I can ever decide what materials I am using and where I am getting them is to hopefully have the cage built with all lighting, heating etc. a few weeks before the hedgie gets here. And to run it as if the hedgie was in it. This way we will know that we can keep it to the proper temps etc. The worst case will be we might have to up the wattage on the CHE's come winter.

canadienhedgie... I have come up with one question. It looks like the goal is to have sides and bottom (obviously) as well as a top all over. If this is the case and I want to build a loft, how do you get the dryer vent tube (I will be using plastic) from lower level to the upper level without cutting into the wire grid or without having an opening the hedgie can fall from. I looked at your pictures and in all of them I did not see how the vent tube opened into the top.


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## CanadienHedgie

moorea said:


> I have come up with one question. It looks like the goal is to have sides and bottom (obviously) as well as a top all over. If this is the case and I want to build a loft, how do you get the dryer vent tube (I will be using plastic) from lower level to the upper level without cutting into the wire grid or without having an opening the hedgie can fall from. I looked at your pictures and in all of them I did not see how the vent tube opened into the top.


Well, I cut a small hole in one of the grids. I turned 4 of the squares into 1 larger one, if that makes sense? Then pulled the tube through, cut a few small holes around the opening of the tube and zip tied it to the wire grid.

If you don't want to cut the grid, or can't (I just used industrial wire cutters), here's another way. On the loft, make one wall just out of coropast, so it matches the height (or close to the same height) on the grids. Cut small holes into the coroplast and zip tie it to the grids so it's sturdy. Cut a shape in the coroplast at the bottom where the tube will come into. It's best if it's a bit to small then a bit to big. Then zip tie the tube to the coroplast.

I did this before, but with plastic tiles, I'll upload a picture tomorrow


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## moorea

I thought it needed to be cut, I just couldn't see in any of the photos where you did so. I was also concerned about leaving rough edges that could harm a hedgie.

I have the tools, but I think I may play with the idea of using the cloroplast (or plexi depending on which I go with, that is still the one issue I haven't solved) that sounds like a neater way to go!

And now I have come up with more questions, I assume the top that is going across this thing needs to be hinged so you can get to your little friend, what do you use to hinge the top!

I prefer the idea of hanging the lighting, if I did so I would hang it close, I just think it will look more finished that way. Is there a draw back to hanging the lighting? 

Finally, I noticed in some of your pictures, your loft was sunk into your cage, this seems like the way to go for easier heating, but how many inches of head room do you need to leave so the space below the loft is usable.

Wow... this is like building a house!

I think I am really close and probably won't have too many more questions. You have been VERY helpful! It will take a few weeks to get done, but I will post photos when it is!


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## moorea

Hanging light question answered in other thread... Thanks! Maybe it would have been easier if I did not hijack that thread and just stuck to this one. Looking forward to benefiting from more of your hedgie wisdom in the answers to come from the other questions above!


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## CanadienHedgie

moorea said:


> I was also concerned about leaving rough edges that could harm a hedgie.


If you do use the cutting the holes in the grid option, you'd want to get a piece of sand paper or a sander, and sand the rough pieces down. It's pretty easy  Oh, and I'm not sure if I or anyone else has told you, but if you buy the dryer vent tube, you'll want it to be 4 inches.



moorea said:


> Finally, I noticed in some of your pictures, your loft was sunk into your cage, this seems like the way to go for easier heating, but how many inches of head room do you need to leave so the space below the loft is usable.


Under that loft (which is my favorite style), I leave 6¼ ish. I do that because I put the igloo underneath the loft. If you use a Super Pet Igloo http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.j ... Id=2753266 , the height is 6¼ and if you use the Living World Dome http://www.petsenseoutlet.com/living-wo ... edium.html the height is 6 3/4 tall

So if you put the igloo or other type of hide underneath it, you'll know that it's high enough up. Mine is sitting right on top of my igloo. Zip ties will be your best friend for attaching the loft. 

In my newest cage http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/848/1090590.jpg/ you can see that the loft on the right is shorter then the space beneath it. The top section is 5 inches, and the bottom section is 9 inches. But I'm going to change is so the top is 6 inches, and the bottom section is 8 inches, just for a bit more room and so she's not to close to the CHE.

So for a short answer, I'd say 5-6 inches (the height of the hide).



moorea said:


> I assume the top that is going across this thing needs to be hinged so you can get to your little friend, what do you use to hinge the top!


To have the top openable, you can use zip ties, and it works really well. The more zip ties you use, the more stable it will be. You can get 100 zipties for about $3-4 or I found them at the dollar store, so 100 for $1.  That was a pretty exciting day lol.

Here's a couple videos from YouTube that I think I watched when I was thinking of a cage.
On this one, the lid part starts around 1:37 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RDtq5RK ... er&list=UL Personally, I'd put a zip tie on every little square instead of only 3 per grid, because it'd be more stable.

This one, the lid starts at 6:43 



 It shows how it will flip back all the way, were the other one only lifted up and tied to the grid above the wheel.


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## moorea

I can not tell you how helpful you have been. I believe I have run out of questions for noe (I am sure that will change though) The one thing we are set on is zip ties. My husband has a few hundred of them in black and white. I will watch those videos shortly! 

Thanks again.


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