# My hedgie hates us =[



## mellykins (Oct 4, 2013)

So we made some progress last night (day two) when after an hour of coaxing he partially unquilled a bit, but everything would set him off so he'd quill up into a ball pretty much every couple of minutes. His poop was finally normal yesterday, but then today when I woke up it was green again so I'm afraid that our play date last night really scared him. I don't know what to do. I've put my scent in the cage, I gave him mealworms while we played last night, I just feel like I'm just traumatizing him. My boyfriend thinks it's a good idea to just leave him be for a couple of days, but he was so unusually friendly when we picked him out I'm just afraid to unsocialize him by leaving him alone.

Does anyone have any other suggestions? I love our little guy so much, I don't know what to do =[

(sorry to be blowing up the forums lately, I really appreciate it, you guys :] <3)


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## GoodandPlenty (Feb 4, 2012)

> (day two)


Any positive expectations on Day 2 are almost surely unrealistic. Poor thing. He's just left everything he's ever known. Probably just a little baby also? He is behaving absolutely normally. [Deep breath.]

Negative expectations on Day 2 are absolutely realistic. See? Everything is normal. [Deep breath.]



> after an hour of coaxing he partially unquilled a bit, but everything would set him off so he'd quill up into a ball pretty much every couple of minutes.


Back *way off *on the coaxing. Get him out; put him in a safe place right with you (for example, inside a hedgie sack placed on your lap);* and then do nothing.* Just let him get used to being taken out of the cage; put in a safe place; and allowed to associate this routine as a safe and normal thing. This is as much as you want right now. This is a win right now. [Deep breath.]



> His poop was finally normal yesterday, but then today when I woke up it was green again so I'm afraid that our play date last night really scared him


Not to worry. Continue to monitor; keep notes; but this is normal. [Deep breath.]



> I don't know what to do. I've put my scent in the cage, I gave him mealworms while we played last night, I just feel like I'm just traumatizing him.


Keep putting a freshly-worn t-shirt in the cage. Keep getting him out on a regular schedule for a period of time that is expected to be routine He's just going to have to be 'traumatized' for a while and that's the way it has to be. Think "new baby just home from hospital". [Deep breath.]

(I would be really cheap on the mealworms. They just aren't going to help that much right now.)



> My boyfriend thinks it's a good idea to just leave him be for a couple of days,


No, no, no, no, no. Establish the routine from the start. Get him out at regular times, for typical amounts of time. Help him feel safe by letting him be in his own own little burrow on your lap. Establish the routine and spend the time every day. It's process. Think in terms of weeks and months, not hours and days.



> but he was so unusually friendly when we picked him out I'm just afraid to unsocialize him by leaving him alone


*Your instinct to stay the course is correct. * Just lower your expectations / hopes by a lot. It could take a long time, but I wouldn't be surprised to see enormous progress pretty quickly. You just can't *expect* that progress. You can only create the circumstances that make it possible / likely. Leaving the guy (the little baby) in his cage 24/7 ain't gonna do that. It gets harder before it gets is easier. [Deep breath.]

If you got him from a good breeder that invests a lot of time in socializing their animals, improvement will happen more quickly and easily. If not, it will take longer.


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## mellykins (Oct 4, 2013)

GoodandPlenty said:


> Any positive expectations on Day 2 are almost surely unrealistic. Poor thing. He's just left everything he's ever known. Probably just a little baby also? He is behaving absolutely normally. [Deep breath.]
> 
> Negative expectations on Day 2 are absolutely realistic. See? Everything is normal. [Deep breath.]
> 
> ...


*Phew* okay, so we're doing things relatively right, okay. By coaxing, I meant just that, I left him in my lap and sat absolutely still for about half an hour until he was comfortable enough to uncurl and start moving about.

I will continue doing things as I have been. I just felt so awful forcing him out of his cage and making him so scared like that =[

he's also afraid of like....EVERYTHING. Sounds, movement in another room. I just have to sit and be perfectly still for him to even uncurl a little bit. I know it's normal for him to be so scared now compared to how nice and friendly he was it's just a little unnerving how different he is. I'm like starting to worry that maybe he's sick or I've done something wrong.


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## Annie&Tibbers (Apr 16, 2013)

GoodAndPlenty already said everything that needed to be said. This post is pure reassurance. 

You're doing fine. Keep taking him out, plopping him on your lap, and leaving him be. Watch a movie or your favourite tv show with the lights down low, let him stay covered up, and just enjoy having a tiny living creature nearby. 

If he doesn't make a mess (pee or poop), keep using the same blanket/snuggle-sack during playtime for a full week, getting it nice and hedgehog-smelly so it smells like him. Try to make sure you smell as similar as possible, too -- wash your hands with the same soap, wear the same pyjama pants during cuddles, whatever is realistically feasible.

When you have to do your first batch of laundry and cleaning, try to spread it out over a few days so he's always got a few things that still smell "right." (Like, switch the liners one day, but leave all his blankets/snuggle sacks/teddy bears until a day or two later.)

He'll grow accustomed to his "new normal" so slowly while you're going through it, and faster than seems possible in retrospect. Leaving him alone, then trying to socialize him later after he's gotten used to being alone, will just traumatize him all over again!

The really frustrating bit is that right when you do start to make progress, he's going to start quilling and be extra-miserable!


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## mellykins (Oct 4, 2013)

Annie&Tibbers said:


> GoodAndPlenty already said everything that needed to be said. This post is pure reassurance.
> 
> You're doing fine. Keep taking him out, plopping him on your lap, and leaving him be. Watch a movie or your favourite tv show with the lights down low, let him stay covered up, and just enjoy having a tiny living creature nearby.


He seems to be super afraid of sound. Should I watch TV on low or just sit in silence for a bit, so as not to scare him?



> When you have to do your first batch of laundry and cleaning, try to spread it out over a few days so he's always got a few things that still smell "right." (Like, switch the liners one day, but leave all his blankets/snuggle sacks/teddy bears until a day or two later.)


That's one thing I haven't been good about. I've been moving things in his cage around a lot, trying to find the most space efficient way of organizing it. It never occurred to me that that might mess him up. I also never would have thought of not washing everything at once. SO, I will definitely do that.



> The really frustrating bit is that right when you do start to make progress, he's going to start quilling and be extra-miserable!


His six month birthday is in 3 days, do you think he still has some quilling to do???


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## Annie&Tibbers (Apr 16, 2013)

Oh! I didn't realize you got yourself a teenager! No, he should be all done with quilling then, my mistake.

Pick what you want your "normal" to be like. My little guy moved into an active recording studio, so he had to learn to sleep his first afternoon while someone was recording a vocal solo mere feet from his cage. Maybe he tolerates noise better by personality, or maybe it's a pure survival instinct of, "Eh, all these noises haven't killed me yet..." He actually seems to love nice low rumbly bass lines, including vfx explosions!

I've read in the archives about some more timid hedgehogs starting at every sound, and people usually write in with advice about having some sort of steady background noise (music, tv) so that noises are less startling than they would be in total silence. I don't actually have experience with that so I don't know if it works or not.

I didn't figure out the smell thing until one day I accidentally washed EVERYTHING in one go, and watched him run around totally confused and even hiding on his wheel shaking. I felt so bad! Since then, unless I have reason to suspect mites or another full-decontamination-inspiration, I wash the hard-plastics one day, replace all the soft-fabrics the next day, and always have a days-old smelly snuggle-sack (as in, if I wash everything else on the weekend, I swap out the snuggle-sack on Wednesday).


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## mellykins (Oct 4, 2013)

Well I guess you wouldn't because I keep calling him my baby, hahaha. My fault!! He'll always be my little baby 

That's a super good idea! I'll just play some soft music or something at night time!!!

Oh I feel much more positive about tonight. I can't wait to get out of work and go home and try again. 

Thank you thank you you guys!!!


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## Annie&Tibbers (Apr 16, 2013)

Feel free to talk to him and reassure him when he huffs, puffs, and quakes in fear. Although for the moment he's terrified of sound, eventually your voice will be as much a part of identifying "you" as your smell is. 

I coo to my little friend each night as I wake him up in a steady litany of, "You're ok, it's just me, you're ok..." as he huffs and tries to tell me that it is clearly NOT okay, thank you very much. My co-keeper opts for the longer, yet just as accurate, "No one is going to eat you, calm down" as his key-phrase. I'm sure tiny friend doesn't understand English, but while our voices were yet another fear-trigger in the beginning, now we've transitioned to him going from "OMG!QUILL-BALL OF DEATH!!" to "I'm huffing, but it's too much effort to raise my quills." when he hears us talking to him.


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## mellykins (Oct 4, 2013)

I've started trying to do that a bit, but mostly while he's sleeping. I was thinking about waking him up and reading to him for a little bit before taking him out. I reading to him while he's on my lap. 

hahahahhaha NO ONE IS GOING TO EAT YOU, CALM DOWN.


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## BexLogic (Oct 13, 2013)

mellykins said:


> So we made some progress last night (day two) when after an hour of coaxing he partially unquilled a bit, but everything would set him off so he'd quill up into a ball pretty much every couple of minutes. His poop was finally normal yesterday, but then today when I woke up it was green again so I'm afraid that our play date last night really scared him. I don't know what to do. I've put my scent in the cage, I gave him mealworms while we played last night, I just feel like I'm just traumatizing him. My boyfriend thinks it's a good idea to just leave him be for a couple of days, but he was so unusually friendly when we picked him out I'm just afraid to unsocialize him by leaving him alone.
> 
> Does anyone have any other suggestions? I love our little guy so much, I don't know what to do =[
> 
> (sorry to be blowing up the forums lately, I really appreciate it, you guys :] <3)


If it helps you AT ALL, I brought my hedgie home just a couple of days before you seem to have gotten yours and there has already been enormous improvement. Hang in there. You're doing all the right things. You'll get to see your baby's personality very soon as long as you're consistent with what you're doing right now!


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## mellykins (Oct 4, 2013)

BexLogic said:


> If it helps you AT ALL, I brought my hedgie home just a couple of days before you seem to have gotten yours and there has already been enormous improvement. Hang in there. You're doing all the right things. You'll get to see your baby's personality very soon as long as you're consistent with what you're doing right now!


Oh yes!! That makes me feel quite a bit better actually :grin:! How have things been for you?


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## SiouxzieKinz (Oct 10, 2013)

Ok, now I'm getting super nervous about having Dakarai occupy his new home. Thankfully all of you out here in Hedgie-Land will be right here.


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## mellykins (Oct 4, 2013)

Don't be nervous!!! You're going to do amazingly and everyone here is so helpful. I would be going crazy if I didn't have them answering all my questions. You'll do amazingly!!

And.......HE LET ME PLAY WITH HIM TONIGHT!!! I just wrapped him in some blankets (I don't have a hedgie bag yet =[) and put him on my lap and we watched his daddy play KH and after an hour or so he came out to play and LET ME PICK HIM UP AND HOLD HIM!!! It started because I guess I didn't wash my hands thoroughly enough and he smelled the chicken on my fingers and started trying to eat my thumb, but that got him out and about and then he was just super curious. 

So I guess it's really true. You just have to be super patient and they'll come out to play. Don't be nervous!


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## sarahspins (Jun 25, 2013)

I think you learning how to handle your new hedgie (and reading behavior cues, and figuring out when they are going to be friendlier than say, just waking them up and expecting them to be happy, when that doesn't work) counts for just as much as your hedgie getting more used to it. Yes your hedgehog gets more used to you with time, but that doesn't exactly translate into wanting to be handled when you want to handle them.

I can more easily handle my grouchy hedgie after he's been awake and active for a while - I can't really expect him to want anything to do with me on MY time, but as long as he's in happy explory hedgehog mode I know he will tolerate me. When he's balled up and angry, there's no chance... the most I can expect is that he'll unroll to poop on me, then right back in an angry ball he goes.


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## SiouxzieKinz (Oct 10, 2013)

Sarahspins, thank you for that honest look into hedgehog behaviour. Most people certainly think that they are just a lump of cuddly, sweetness. I've read about the three main personality traits and I'll be happy if my boy will allow me to be in his life with some hedgie curiosity sprinkled in there. Oh and healthy - that is my main wish is for him to be healthy.

Enjoy the learning experience mellykins.


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## BexLogic (Oct 13, 2013)

mellykins said:


> Oh yes!! That makes me feel quite a bit better actually :grin:! How have things been for you?


See?! He let you play with him! You're learning to read him and you're getting better already! Rosie is doing well, too, but she has begun quilling (the breeder warned us that it would probably happen very soon after we brought her home) and I've been cleaning tons of quills out of the cage for the past couple of days. She's only slightly grumpier but after being handled for a few minutes, she's totally fine. I've been giving her a mealworm or two each time I get her out, so she's picked up on that treat connection pretty quickly  Good luck and I'm so glad it's getting better for you!!


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## LittleWontonPoo (Aug 31, 2013)

I had Wonton for almost 2 months now, and she is still a grumpy hedgie. :') It takes time and plentyyyy of patience, but you'll get there.  She is starting to not wriggle around as much when I put her on her back. PROGRESS. 

Good luck!


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## SiouxzieKinz (Oct 10, 2013)

I've been sleeping with the fleece strips and the sleep sacks in my bed for the past four days. I'm hoping to get the little guy acquainted with me and the scent as I place him in his new cage this Saturday. Someone posted that idea on the forum a week or so ago and I really find the idea brilliant. Granted I wake up with fleece strips hanging off my pajamas in the morning but hey - no one's gonna see me so I figure I'll just go with it. As long as I don't, in a half-awake stupor, walk out the door with fleece hanging in my hair then I'm golden.


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## mellykins (Oct 4, 2013)

So here's the thing I'm a little confused about. I can't actually pick him up =[ everyone keeps mentioning their grumpy hedgies like they can just scoop him/her up and he'll be quilly for awhile and then he eventually calms down. Every time I get near enough to him, he quills into a tight ball, so my only choice is to pick him up with gloves or a blanket.

Then I have to sit with him for almost an hour and a half before he calms down and starts moving and even then he's still not totally relaxed. It's been taking less time for him to uncurl from his ball, but it's only really if I give him the hour and a half in my lap before he starts exploring. 

I'm just wondering if this is normal? Last night he seemed almost relaxed in his cage, and after the progress we'd made the night before I thought I'd be brave and try and scoop him up and he just quilled up into a ball. a gain He uncurled super fast, but then he went and hid right underneath the wheel (clever boy!!) in a spot that made it absolutely impossible to pick him up in, and stayed there till well after we went to sleep. 

They also never taught me out to pick him up out of the cage, and all the videos i've seen on youtube of picking up grumpy hedgies, have the benefit of using shavings as buffer. Since we're using fleece, I don't have that cushion.

I'm sorry, I know, I know, patience patience patience, I'm just really a bit down trodden right now, and just I guess want to know if this really is all normal.


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## Annie&Tibbers (Apr 16, 2013)

I use a fleece-blanket to pick up my tiny friend. He huff-puffs with full-spikes, but not in a ball, every time I go to pick him up. Why risk my fingers? Yet as soon as he's settled with me, he's relaxed and happy. I'll see if I can recruit co-keeper to make a video of it, but it's not exciting. I just use the blanket to wrap him up and pick up the fleecy-bits!

You can use piles of fleece scraps as a buffer, or even pick up the whole liner if that's what it takes. Get the entire mess safely with you, then sort out where the hedgehog is hiding! 

Painful Lessons: when a hedgehog lets you partly pick them up, then freaks out and full-balls around your fingers? It REALLY hurts. It's happened to me once, and my co-keeper once, both times when we were doing a daytime-extraction.


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## mellykins (Oct 4, 2013)

Oh god that does sound painful =[

So it's okay then? I was worried it was just scaring him more by picking him up with the things he felt safe in. Like they'd suddenly turned on him or something.

Is it normal for them to sleep balled up? I took the igloo off of him to get him to wake up (he takes like two hours to wake up >.<) and so now he's just sleeping in a ball. It just takes so much time from the time I try and get him up to the time we actually get to play. He refuses to really do anything before past midnight is what I'm learning.

Also I'm taking him to the vet in the morning for a checkup and I'm really worried because I'm struggling enough trying to play with him, getting him successfully in the carrier and to the vet is going to be such a struggle >.<


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## LittleWontonPoo (Aug 31, 2013)

Using a blanket is better than gloves, in my opinion! When I pick up Wonton, I prefer having her face away from me, and scoop her up (kind of like scooping up water with both hands). If she does ball up, I just suck it up, honestly. I find that hedgies are more grumpy when they are in their cages than when they are outside.


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## mellykins (Oct 4, 2013)

So I'm not sure if this is actually a thing or maybe he finally go used to us, but it occurred to me that he might not be used to being played with in the dark, so we turned on all the lights and.......he was so playful! He was almost exactly how we met him. It was such a big difference. He let me pick him up and pet his quills and give him to his daddy who hadn't even tried to bond with him yet at all. He was just super friendly and curious. 

The only thing was after a while he just suddenly stopped moving around and just sat in the blanket and started sniffing everything, then he bit me (and drew blood, that's not bad is it?). I had been holding an ("unscented") baby wipe earlier trying to clean his feet, but this was like a good 20 mins after that. We thought he might be hungry so we put him back in his cage, do hedgies bite when they're hungry? I thought it was only if you smelled like food. 

Thank you everyone for all of the help and support. You guys have helped me so much through this week I really appreciate it.


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## Annie&Tibbers (Apr 16, 2013)

Neat, that's a cool trick to learn!

Yes, it is common for some hedgehogs to sleep balled up.

You can experiment on taking him out when he's still super-sleepy, and let him slowly wake up on your lap. 2 hours of bonding!

Re: the vet-visit: you can just scoop him up when he's sleepy, plonk him into his carrier, and let him be a balled-up prickle about it.

No idea about biting, sorry! Just try to dodge it if you see it happening, and do NOT let him learn that "bites = return to cage" or you'll have a really bad habit to break.


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## mellykins (Oct 4, 2013)

Oh!!! I also would have never thought of that! We waited a good 20 minutes before putting him back after he bit me, it was just from the point of him biting me and on, he just started acting really strange. He just suddenly stopped moving and was literally just sniffing the air for 20 minutes, that's why we thought he must be looking for food or something as he usually eats ravenously when he wakes up, but hadn't had anything before we played tonight. 

And yes! I really hope it's actually a trick and not just that he was in a really good mood tonight or something. 

I'm super worried that he'll go back to hating us after we make him go to the vet in the morning, but I guess we'll just have to keep our fingers crossed.


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## Annie&Tibbers (Apr 16, 2013)

When I wake my friend up during the daytime, I just expect him to be more sleepy that night. Steps forward and back: it's the life of hedgehog-ownership.  But hey, he probably likes you a lot more already than the vet he hasn't even met, so maybe you'll feel a moment of victory when you see what true hatred looks like!

Yeah, when my tiny friend is sniffing like crazy and suddenly gets squirmy, it's our sign that he either wants to eat or poop, but either way, we should return him to his cage for a little while.


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## mellykins (Oct 4, 2013)

hahahahahah I actually laughed out loud reading that. Oh god, I shudder to think how angry he's going to be to the vet!

And I think that was probably it. I'll keep an eye on it and see if it's a patter or something. He's a super private hedgie and doesn't like to eat or poop in front of us, so far, so it's hard to see what was actually the problem.


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## LittleWontonPoo (Aug 31, 2013)

Hedgies dont normally bite, at least that what's I heard from people, haha. Different story for me though! I think they nip if they are annoyed, or you are in the way. Or, they might just be curious! Did he lick before he bit you? They tend to do that to "taste test" to see if you are food. Wonton does that kind of sniffing too. Maybe they are just being curious and taking in their surroundings


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## MomLady (Aug 14, 2010)

Yeah, watch out for the "sniff-sniff, lick-lick, CHOMP". :-o Most people say to NOT hand feed, because your fingers will smell like food. 

I've had my Nara for over 3 years and she still huffs at me when I take her out, if I have just awakened her. If she was up, then not so much.

No your hedgehog doesn't hate you if he/she is huffing, curling into a ball. They are showing fear, which is their response. They are a prey animal. 

When Nara is in one of those moods, I find that if I keep the lights off and read to her --her favorite story is Mrs. Tiggywiggle (the Beatrix Potter story about the hedgehog!) she usually calms down and relaxes. 

Keep up the bonding, you may want to wait until he/she has been up for a while (and pooped) before taking them out, but sometimes that is no guarantee that you won't still get pooped on. 

Good luck! 

ML

If you have never had children, this is good practice. LOL


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## mellykins (Oct 4, 2013)

The other night there was sniff sniff lick lick CHOMP, but last night, it was just sniff sniff sniff sniff sniff CHOMP REALLY HARD which was really confusing and I why I wasn't expecting it. 

And I really think my hedgie might actually be afraid of the dark. I know that's improbable, but it occurred to us that the breeders might have only played with him during the day time. I mean this is only speculation, but there was such a big difference in playing with him last night with all of the lights on, then playing with him in the dim lights/quiet room we had been. 

And luckily my lil guy seems to be very specific about how/where he wants to poop, lol. He only does it in his tray/wheel/water bowl and when there is no one there to see him. 

And YES. I feel like I'm raining a little hedgie baby


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## LittleWontonPoo (Aug 31, 2013)

He is probably not afraid of the dark if he comes out to play at night. I never actually played with Wonton when it is dark, because I can't see where she is running, haha. 

Yes, they are pretty clean animals! Except when they decide to step on their poop for the heck of it -sigh- 

For the biting, I think we just need to expect the unexpected. I tend to pull away when she starts sniffing too close to my fingers. 8)


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