# Good breeders in Ontario?



## Desperodo (Dec 12, 2010)

I've read that the breeders list is out of date, so are there any good breeders in Ontario? Other then hedgehog grove, I don't like their "even though you bought the hedgehog, we still own it" crap. If I'm paying $300 for a hedgehog, it belongs to me.


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## CanadienHedgie (Feb 4, 2011)

Hedgehog Grove doesn't say they still own the hedgehog, they say the keep partial ownership.

"Hedgehog Grove retains partial ownership of all babies sold here at Hedgehog Grove. When you purchase a hedgehog from us you are responsible for all care costs including housing, feeding, veterinary care, etc. However, if at any time you decide a hedgehog is not the right pet for you or circumstances change *the hedgehog MUST be returned to us at buyers expense/time.* You may not sell or give away your hedgehog! Failure to comply with this condition can result in legal action. While this may sound harsh we do this to ensure that the hedgehog we helped to create is always properly cared for and loved."

Paulo's Pets breeds still (to my knowledge). Someone on here had a good experience with Paulo. But he's hard to get in contact with. I've never managed to get a hold of him.

Edited: The person who had a good experience was 'rachelcolleen'. Paulo is in Brampton, ON. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10765&p=93540&hilit=Paulo%27s+Pets#p93540


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## moothecow (Jun 4, 2011)

To be honest, I like that policy... it shows they're an uber responsible breeder and really care about the welfare of every hedgehog they produce. It may seem harsh, but I feel it is a deterrent to someone getting a hedgie and two weeks later posting him or her on Kijiji because they decided a hedgehog is too much hassle. It's really sad how many posts there are like that in the GTA/Ontario area... so, if you're sure that your hedgehog is for you for all time, and you won't be trying to find it a new home in a few months, I think you don't need to worry about that policy!


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## Guest (Jul 17, 2011)

moothecow said:


> To be honest, I like that policy... it shows they're an uber responsible breeder and really care about the welfare of every hedgehog they produce. It may seem harsh, but I feel it is a deterrent to someone getting a hedgie and two weeks later posting him or her on Kijiji because they decided a hedgehog is too much hassle. It's really sad how many posts there are like that in the GTA/Ontario area... so, if you're sure that your hedgehog is for you for all time, and you won't be trying to find it a new home in a few months, I think you don't need to worry about that policy!


Exactly that policy is to protect a hedgehog, paid for or not they were born and raised by them to find a good home, and many people get bored or tire of a hedgehog because they didn't realize what having a hedgehog was. They end up on a site for sale, when the breeder could get them a good home, yes you lose out on your expense but if you didn't know what you were getting into thats the purchasers fault. Aside most Breeders will refund up to a certain amount of time.


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## Desperodo (Dec 12, 2010)

IMO if I buy a hedgehog, it belongs to me. This isn't Rent-A-Hedgie.


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## Guest (Jul 17, 2011)

Desperodo said:


> IMO if I buy a hedgehog, it belongs to me. This isn't Rent-A-Hedgie.


Your taking it the wrong way they are protecting hedgehogs is all, if you are an owner and lover of the animals you know many people do not treat hedgehogs well. Their policy is a righteous one to protect these hedgehogs from being rescues and horrible living environment.

It is your Hedgehog, provide, love and take care of him/her and give them a good home and it is true.

As I said they have it there to prevent the hedgehogs they brought into the world got pawned off on ebay or craigslist to a owner who also may not know what they are doing. Like it or not it happens all too often. We are not being critical nor saying you are incorrect, only to understand and see why they do such a thing. From what I saw your area has a website full of hedgehogs people get bored of cause it wasn't the right fit. They just want to be sure the hedgehogs are able to live the healthiest and fullest life


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## CanadienHedgie (Feb 4, 2011)

I really don't think that it should ever be a problem, unless you don't plan to keep your hedgie for very long. The only time it would come into effect is if you couldn't/wouldn't take care of him/her anymore. They have an exchange policy as well, so if you decided a hedgehog wasn't right for you, you could take it back. 

"Returned within 7 days of the date of purchase = 75% of the sale price minus the deposit.
Returned within 8 - 15 days of the date of purchase = 50% of the sale price minus the deposit.
Returned within 16 - 30 days of the date of purchase = 25% of the sale price minus the deposit.
Returned after 31 days of the date of purchase = no refund is given but the adopted hedgehog must still be returned to Hedgehog Grove."


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## Desperodo (Dec 12, 2010)

When you buy something, you own it. When you own something you can do whatever you want with it.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

Desperodo said:


> When you buy something, you own it. When you own something you can do whatever you want with it.


Except when that "something" is a living, breathing creature that you're getting the privilege of caring for so that you can interact more closely with it and have it bring joy to your life. Animals aren't possessions to do whatever you want with. They're something you have a responsibility for, and this breeder is taking responsibility for every hedgehog she helps bring into this world.


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## purplesparkles (Jul 3, 2011)

I hope you never adopt a child. That process involves quite a bit of money that could be misconstrued as "buying" the child; would you think of -that- as a possession to do whatever you want with, too? :roll: And if you're response is an emphatic "No!" (which it should be), this is the exact same thing.


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## hanhan27 (May 12, 2011)

This breeder has the right idea. If I was a breeder and saw the things you're saying in this post, theres (excuse my French) no way in **** I would let you take one of my babies. Yes, buying a hedgehog means that you own it. But if you want to be a pet owner, you should at least have the decency to find a good home for the animal if you can't handle it, even if that means you can't make an easy $200 off it.

And if you are already coming to the conclusion that you won't be giving a hedgie a forever home, you should just buy a fish.


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## Shiromisa (Jul 17, 2011)

I will admit that when I first heard about this policy (most reputable dog breeders have the same one!), I also had a kneejerk negative reaction. But thinking it over, I realized it's for the good of the animal. You're right, this policy wouldn't fly with most purchased items. But a hedgehog isn't an item. It's a living creature that needs to be taken care of, and a good breeder will want to make sure that their babies have a loving home to come back to if, for some reason, the buyer isn't able to care for them.


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## moothecow (Jun 4, 2011)

Desperodo said:


> When you buy something, you own it. When you own something you can do whatever you want with it.


In theory, I know what you mean. But also look at it from the breeder's perspective - I'm assuming they had a lot of people get a hedgehog from them, just to get rid of it a few months later. Seriously, if you want to feel sad about humanity, browse the Toronto Kijiji "hedgehog" search... our area seems for some reason particularly prone to people giving away a lot of hedgies, some in really poor condition because they haven't been taken care of; some given away to people who clearly haven't the foggiest idea of how to care for a hedgehog ("it's like a hamster, right?"). SO, Hedgehog Grove is I think being exceptionally cautious in making sure none of their hedgehogs end up being passed person to person, resold, and given to clueless owners. Even if it seems harsh.

You seems to be preparing for your hedgie with a lot of care... it looks like you've been on these boards for quite a few months now, learning and posting and clarifying. You definitely don't seem to be the kind of irresponsible owner Hedgehog Grove is protecting against. Don't think of it as them owning a part of the hedgie. Think of it as, when an owner no longer wants the hedgehog, Hedgehog Grove are the first responders, making sure that hedgehog gets a good new owner. But it is your hedgehog, entirely and completely. Only when an owner resigns ownership does Hedgehog Grove step in.

Extreme example, but close to what I mean: when someone adopts a child, the child is completely theirs. Part of their family. However, if for some extraordinary reason the adoption doesn't work out (which happens... because of temperament or a sudden change in the family, or something else), they have to return the child to the orphanage/child care authorities that they received the child from. Same concept.


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## CanadienHedgie (Feb 4, 2011)

Hedgehog Grove has really beautiful, "high quality" babies. They've worked hard to get reputable hedgehogs/lines. I'm sure if you worked extremely hard on something, and it meant so much to you, you wouldn't want to see it tossed around like garbage.

Really, the partial ownership is a GOOD thing. If something EVER happened, and you could no longer keep your hedgehog, you'd know it was going to go to a good home. If you sell you hedgehog on Kijiji, you never know exactly where they are going. You can ask all the questions in the world, but in the end, you just don't know. With this, you'll know they have a good home with Hedgehog Grove until they find a new home, which will also be a good home.


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## Immortalia (Jan 24, 2009)

ANY breeder for any animal with that policy will immediately get my business if I am looking for something they are breeding.

Situations can always change, futures can always be uncertain. Wouldn't you love the fact that your loved one will always be taken care of? That no matter what happens, you have a safety net, just in case.

You need to look at more craigslist and kijiji ads and just see what could happen. And all the horror stories of hedgies getting passed from home to home to home. Even the most recent story from hedgehog groove herself, with the poor boy completely abandoned and horribly mutilated. Sure, it may never happen to you, but there will always be that chance that it will happen to you, where you entrust a pet to a friend, then months later, find your pet in horrible conditions, or perhaps even dead. It's happened to many people, and this policy is one of the best guarantees against it. Something like this: http://hedgehogcentral.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=11488&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a could happen...

But anyways, since you seem to know what you want, there's the one in Brampton that was already mentioned, there's heavenly hedgehogs, who ship within Canada I believe.


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

Desperodo said:


> When you buy something, you own it. When you own something you can do whatever you want with it.


I agree that the term "partial ownership" would turn many people off but it is just another way of saying and ensuring the hedgehog must be returned to them if you ever decide you can no longer keep it.

I'm kind of getting the impression from all you are saying that you are going into hedgehog ownership with an unsure attitude. If you were certain a hedgehog was for you, this policy would not bother you in the least because the hedgehog would be with you for life.

The reason the Toronto kijiji is so full of hedgehogs is because all those other breeders will sell to anyone who comes along. Decide you want a hedgehog today and you can buy one from them tomorrow. They do NOT screen people nor make certain the buyer knows about hedgehogs. All they want is the business and who cares what happens two weeks from now when the new owner discovers a hedgehog requires heating, is prickly, can smell, doesn't do tricks, or any multitude of things that the breeder didn't tell them about.


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## ReginasMommy (Apr 13, 2011)

I think the issue is not so much "I paid for it, now it's mine," as it is "I don't like being policed about how I raise my pet." And I know it's only for the good of the hedgie, and I completely agree with and understand the policy, but I think it can come off as a little... patronizing? Not sure if that's the right word for it, but I mean... assume you're a good hedgie parent (I'm sure Desperodo is because they've been doing the proper research for months). To feel like you're still being babysat or you have the constant watchful eye of someone else might make you feel like they assume you don't know what you're doing and need to be watched. And I know that's probably not how it is, but I mean, are you required to send updates? How will they know that you're being a good parent/not pawning off the hedgehog without checking up on you? Or is it the honor system?

I guess what I'm trying to say is: no parent wants to be told how to raise their child, and most people don't like being told how to care for their pet when the advice is unsolicited. I know the policy is for extreme situations, but for most of the responsible owners out there, I guess they might feel a little offended, like they are not being trusted completely to take care of the pet that they love. To make an analogy, I guess it might feel like being forced into an open adoption when you prefer a closed one.

And I know that the policy is just for a very small percentage of people, and that (hopefully) most who adopt do so for the life of the hedgie, but unfortunately, there are far too many people who are irresponsible (i.e. Kijiji), thereby making the policy a necessity to protect the baby pogs.

And by saying that the policy is "patronizing" or that Hedgehog Grove assumes that people need to be watched, I don't mean that's how it actually IS. It's more what it might make someone FEEL like. Desperodo might have just put it a little harshly, probably.

And Hedgehog Grove, if you read this--I really like the policy, knowing that if I adopted a baby from you and I ever had dire circumstances my hedgehog would have a safe place to go. So thank you for being committed to every hedgie for their entire life!


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## MissC (Nov 15, 2010)

Nancy said:


> I'm kind of getting the impression from all you are saying that you are going into hedgehog ownership with an unsure attitude. If you were certain a hedgehog was for you, this policy would not bother you in the least because the hedgehog would be with you for life.
> 
> The reason the Toronto kijiji is so full of hedgehogs is because all those other breeders will sell to anyone who comes along. Decide you want a hedgehog today and you can buy one from them tomorrow. They do NOT screen people nor make certain the buyer knows about hedgehogs. All they want is the business and who cares what happens two weeks from now when the new owner discovers a hedgehog requires heating, is prickly, can smell, doesn't do tricks, or any multitude of things that the breeder didn't tell them about.


I completely agree with Nancy: if you're planning to truly make the hedgie a part of your life, what's the big deal? This policy won't affect you at all. It is a fall back for the people who did truly want the hedgie in their family and now circumstances have changed that. Because of HG's policy: There is another home waiting.


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