# Sunseed...Why so bad?



## MissC (Nov 15, 2010)

Why do 'we' (the "Royal We") dislike Sunseed so much? Specifically: Sun Seed Sunscription Vita Hedgehog Adult Food

GA: 37-7-12%

Ingredients: Poultry Meal, Blood Meal, Fish Meal, Shrimp Meal, Crab Meal, Tuna Meal, Chitin Powder, Wheat Bran, Dried Beet Pulp, Freeze-Dried Mealworms, Fish Oil, Vegetable Oil, Dehulled Soybean Meal, Yeast Culture, Monocalcium Phosphate, Dicalcium Phosphate, Salt, Choline Chloride, Full Fat Flax Meal, Dried Kelp Meal, L-Lysine, DL-Methionine, Taurine, Psyllium Seed Husk, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin C3 Supplement, Niacinamide, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Menadione Dimethylpyrimidinol Bisulfite (source of Vitamin K activity), Biotin, Folic Acid, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, L-Ascorbyl 2-Polyphosphate (source of Stabilized Vitamin C), Beta Carotene, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Dried Lactobacillus acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus casei Fermentation Product, Dried Enterococcus faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Bifidobacterium bifidum Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus oryzae Fermentation Product, Torula Dried Yeast, Cobalt Glucoheptonate, Zinc Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Ethylenediamine Dihydroiodide, Cobalt Sulfate, Selenium Yeast, and Sodium Selenite.

Opinions? Just throwing this out there...kind of a non-issue here since Snarf pretty much ignores it...


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## Nebular (Dec 28, 2010)

Wow, that's a lot of meals. What does he usually eat? If he's used to something that's made of actual meat instead of meat meal, that might put him off of this stuff. It could also be the amount of seafood in there that's doing it. Seafood meals supposedly have a more... strong... taste (not to mention smell). For example, most of the flavouring from shrimp is found in the head and bits that don't usually get sold, so they're ground into meal instead (or used for stock). As most meals are the leftover parts of the animal ground up into a paste, I have no idea what blood meal is, nor do I have no desire to find out. :lol:

... or he might just be really set in his ways and just doesn't want a change in food. 'Cause, y'know, these things aren't tempermental or weird or anything...


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## nikki (Aug 28, 2008)

The protien in Sunseed is quite high, 37% and that can affect the kidneys, also the fat is very very low 7%. 

NOTE: Meals are good, they are just regular meat that has been ground and had most of the water removed, they are NOT the "Left over parts" that's by-products. Blood meal is basically dried blood.


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## Tarynsgate (Sep 25, 2010)

I used to feed Roxie Sunseed. She only ate it for a couple of days, then started ignoring the heck outta it. Also the tin I bought of it also completely dried out in a week since opening (I kept the plastic lid on too) so I'd probably chalk it up to being rather nasty tasting...it still smells really weird too.


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## MissC (Nov 15, 2010)

nikki said:


> The protien in Sunseed is quite high, 37% and that can affect the kidneys, also the fat is very very low 7%.


The 37% kinda worried me, too...it's not horrible but not great...but the indgredients seem okay to me, for the most part...anyone else?

It's been part of Snarf's mix since we first got him...he eats it on and off...it's not so great/horrible that I really care either way...just looking for opinions on why it's one of the 'condemned foods'. :lol:


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## Nebular (Dec 28, 2010)

Just to clarify: Not saying meals are bad, they can be quite good for them, but they're not just ground meat. Animal meals (for example chicken meal) are made of the carcass - skin, heads, feet, entrails, and occasionally bones and feathers. So it's not just ground up meat. Meat is the actual muscle tissue of the critter and would be listed as chicken, chicken meat, or ground chicken meat.


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## MissC (Nov 15, 2010)

Nebular said:


> Just to clarify: Not saying meals are bad, they can be quite good for them, but they're not just ground meat. Animal meals (for example chicken meal) are made of the carcass - skin, heads, feet, entrails, and occasionally bones and feathers. So it's not just ground up meat. Meat is the actual muscle tissue of the critter and would be listed as chicken, chicken meat, or ground chicken meat.


I understood that 'chicken meal' is meat that has had the moisture removed so it as actually MORE nutrtional than chicken meat, as it's more condensed...'chicken by-product meal' is feathers, feet, etc

I can't find the site...I think this is where I read it:
http://www.truthaboutpetfood.com/articl ... asics.html


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## Sarahg (Feb 18, 2010)

Nebular said:


> Just to clarify: Not saying meals are bad, they can be quite good for them, but they're not just ground meat. Animal meals (for example chicken meal) are made of the carcass - skin, heads, feet, entrails, and occasionally bones and feathers. So it's not just ground up meat. Meat is the actual muscle tissue of the critter and would be listed as chicken, chicken meat, or ground chicken meat.


Chicken meal, according to the Association of American Feed Control Officials (AAFCO), is the dry rendered product from a combination of clean chicken flesh and skin with or without accompanying bone, derived from whole carcasses of chicken, exclusive of (not including) feathers, heads, feet and entrails.

so meal is meat, skin and bone, but *doesn't* include heads, feet, entrails or feathers.


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## susanaproenca (Aug 14, 2010)

Sunseed is not on the condemned food list. If you read Reaper's lis of commercial hedgehog food, you will see the first post saying that Sunseed is ok in a mix of other good quality foods.


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## MissC (Nov 15, 2010)

susanaproenca said:


> Sunseed is not on the condemned food list. If you read Reaper's lis of commercial hedgehog food, you will see the first post saying that Sunseed is ok in a mix of other good quality foods.


Yes, but second...after Spike's Delight??!! :lol: Yikes...

Spike's first 10: Chicken meal, extruded yellow corn, soybean meal, extruded brown rice, fish meal, steam-rolled oat groats, extruded whole soymeal, soy hulls, vegetable oil, Brewers yeast,

I didn't explain myself: I meant in the general: "Hedgie Foods are Bad" context...my vet and I have been talking a lot about cat/hedgie food and she shot down every argument I had against hedgie food...although I did challenge her to find one besides Sunssed that was any good. :twisted:

This is kind of a 'thinking out loud' exercise...in general we say: catfood over hedgie food...but maybe in some cases, we should look at the hedgie foods again? Again, not that it matters in this house, as Snarf isn't crazy about it... :lol:


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## susanaproenca (Aug 14, 2010)

As Nikki said, the fat is extremely low. It would be VERY hard to keep weight steady on hedgie with only Sunseed (unless hedgie is a couch potato.)


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## fracturedcircle (May 31, 2010)

MissC said:


> susanaproenca said:
> 
> 
> > my vet and I have been talking a lot about cat/hedgie food and she shot down every argument I had against hedgie food...


what exactly is her thing about cat food? i mean if we all agree on the ratio, what is it that bothers her so much?

(i have my views on dry food in general, so i'm just asking out of curiosity.)


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## nikki (Aug 28, 2008)

You never want to feed anything that's just called "meat" such as "meat meal" "ground meat" etc, as you don't know what it really is. But "chicken meal" "lamb meal" "beef meal" etc, is just as good as "real" chicken, beef, lamb etc. Its the meat, IE muscle, that is ground and has most of the water removed.


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## MissC (Nov 15, 2010)

FC...the more I talk to her, the more I think she is speaking in generalities...her written info says to feed HH food that is high in protein, low in fat...no numbers, tho'. When I flat-out asked why she wanted me to ditch the catfood in favor of the HH food, she said it's not so much she wants me to get rid of it but to ensure: moderation; variety; don't just fall back on catfood as an answer.

I suspect if I showed her exactly which HH/catfoods I am feeding she would say it's fine (cuz the catfoods meet the criteria, as well). We have never spoken about a specific HH food and I'm sure if I mentioned Spike's, for example, and discussed the ingredients, she'd say "no".

I am changing Snarf's diet to increase insects; add canned/babyfood mixed with more veggies; reduce the dry cat kibble while increasing Sunseed a bit. Really, the only major change is the into of canned/veggies. His dry mix is much the same and he eats less of it, anyway, cause he LOVES the canned stuff.


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## MissC (Nov 15, 2010)

nikki said:


> You never want to feed anything that's just called "meat" such as "meat meal" "ground meat" etc, as you don't know what it really is. But "chicken meal" "lamb meal" "beef meal" etc, is just as good as "real" chicken, beef, lamb etc. Its the meat, IE muscle, that is ground and has most of the water removed.


This NEVER occurred to me!!! I always jump to the conclusion meat is better than meal...dunno why I make that leap...glad you mentioned it as it makes perfect sense the way YOU say it.


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