# Calling All Raw/Natural Feeders!



## lessthansign3 (Jun 1, 2013)

Hello everyone!

With the death of my hedgehog Henry last week (he was four and a half - we believe it was wobbly hedgehog, though we'd never know without a necropsy) I have been reexamining my methods of hedgehog care in preparation of getting a new hedgehog in the coming months. I've just applied to be put on a wait list for a local breeder, so it will likely be some time before we add a new baby to our home, but I'm still planning and thinking ahead before he comes so I'm ready.

All those years with Henry we fed him a mix of Chicken Soup light and Felidae seniors, which was a good kibble mix, but during those years we transitioned our cats and ferrets to a raw fed diet. We get our raw meat from a local store called Woody's Pet Deli. They have just two stores, one in Minneapolis and one in St. Paul, so if you're in the Twin Cities it's a great resource for anyone interested in raw feeding their pets. They produce whole grinds, so you're getting the meat, bone, organs - the works, all ground up and easily eaten by dogs, cats, and even my little ferrets, who love their meaties  

The ferrets are the reason I got so interested in raw feeding in the first place, after researching ferret nutrition and the raw feeding movement in that community. The raw food has also had great benefits for my cats - the obese one is now a healthy weight, and the one with chronic diarrhea now has healthy stools ever since the switch. All three ferrets and all three cats have beautiful shiny coats, perfectly healthy teeth and gums, and excellent appetites.

From time to time I thought, "You know, we stopped feeding kibble to our cats and ferrets because they're obligate carnivores and they can't digest so much of what is in the kibble - I wonder about Henry? Could he eat the raw meat, too?" but I dismissed it because from what I'd read when I got Henry years ago, nobody had ever tried feeding hedgehogs anything but kibble with the occasional extras as treats (which Henry would never eat - but he sure did love that kibble). Nobody seemed to agree on what hedgehogs even ate in the wild. 

Now, just from reading through the threads here, in just five years the hedgehog community has come a long ways in learning about hedgehog diet and nutrition. It's really amazing to see, and I've seen a few people beginning to add more meat, both raw and cooked, to their hedgie's diets, along with fresh veggies and insects. Some have switched all the way, others simply supplement their kibbles.

I'd like to hear as many experiences as possible before I make any decisions on what direction I want to take my future hedgie's diet. Right now, I'm leaning more towards the raw with supplemented greens and insects. I still am not 100% sure I should leave the kibble out entirely though. If I do keep in the kibbles, I'll be switching to a couple of the grain-free varieties. All of this will happen after an appropriate period of adjustment when he comes home, of course. He'll stay on his previous kibbles until he settles in, so he doesn't stress out. 

So please, share with me your hedgie diet experiences and stories. I'd love to know what's happening in the world of raw and natural hedgehog nutrition. Thanks! <3


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

I can't help much personally as I don't currently have a hedgehog (but hope to experiment more with different diets in the future when I have more), but this is a favorite interest of mine with animals in general, nutrition/raw feeding. There's been a few threads on the topic, so you could look them over for more information/ideas, and/or possibly message the people involved in the threads to see how far they've gotten and what they've learned so far. I personally would love to get updates in the future, whatever you do decide to do with feeding your new baby! The more information out there on the forums, the more people can look at it, get ideas, and continue discussions about this method of feeding.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=23585
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=19855&hilit=+raw
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=12297&hilit=+raw
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=21923&hilit=+raw


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## lessthansign3 (Jun 1, 2013)

Thanks so much! I've read through a lot of those old posts, and I'm really hoping some of those people who were discussing their experiments with raw and natural feeding will come back here and update us on the progress they've made recently. If they could tell us where they're at right now with their hedgehog's diet, how their hedgies are doing, any adjustments they had to make, etc. that would be wonderful!

I think this is an area that the hedgehog community could really explore in greater detail. I know it's difficult, because nobody wants to 'experiment' on their pets, but at the same time, we want to make the best nutritional decisions we can for our hedgies. I've seen so many benefits of raw feeding with my other pets that I think it can have the same benefits for a hedgehog as well. I realize that hedgehogs are vastly different creatures than ferrets and cats, with very different nutritional requirements, and I plan to take that into account. Hence the research, asking around, looking for other opinions, and wanting to hear about others' experiences first before I make any concrete decisions. 

I should have a few months before my baby is available - I think the breeder has quite the waiting list, and she's responsible so she doesn't overbreed her females just to pump out more babies. So I'll take my time and do my research while I wait for my future boy to come home


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

Definitely a good thing to do as much research as you can!  You may have better luck PMing those people, since I think forum default is set up to send an email to you when someone messages you on here. I'm not sure most of them post much, so they may not think to come update for a long time yet, or at all. As far as raw specifically (and this was probably mentioned on at least one of the threads), the major concern with it is the temperature that hedgehogs need to be kept at and the use of heating lamps, etc. to maintain that heat - it wouldn't be safe to leave raw meat out in those temps for long, and with hedgies eating at night, that'd make it hard to feed them raw. Good luck with the rest of your research though! And definitely feel free to come back and share what you're finding and what you decide on.


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## lessthansign3 (Jun 1, 2013)

Thanks for the tip! I'll reread those threads and look into PMing a few folks tonight.

As for the raw, I'm not too especially concerned about it. I keep all of my raw food frozen in cubes, and it would gradually thaw as the night progressed. Also, because hedgehogs eat carrion in the wild, they likely don't need it to be as "out of the fridge" fresh as, say, a cat would. My ferrets are much the same way - they don't always get to the food right away when we serve it, either, and it's never been a problem for them because their wild cousins tend to bring prey back to their nest and stash it for later. So, we have to take their food away whenever we let them out, otherwise we find bits of raw meat stashed underneath our desks that they were saving for later... but hey, that's ferrets for you! lol!

Anyway, I saw somebody else was also feeding frozen raw - I forget who now, so I need to go back through the threads and find them, PM them, and ask them if this was a concern on their part at all. Still, I've been raw feeding for a couple of years now and I've yet to encounter a single problem with stomach upset from the food, with the exception of one ferret who had a bad reaction to duck - and I'd never feed duck to a hedgehog, it's much too high in fat. These animals, despite being domesticated and far removed from their wild cousins, are still equipped to handle the bacteria found in raw meat. Besides, just think about all of the bacteria that are bound to be in the mealworms and crickets we feed our hedgies! It's bound to be no better than what's found in the raw meat. That's my unscientific opinion on the matter, anyway.

Thanks again <3 If I learn anything new, I'll update you here.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

I dunno, I'm not personally too convinced on them being able to handle bacteria in raw meat just because their cousins can...we know that they've already lost a few wild traits such as hibernation (though that seems to be due to being a cross of two wild species, if I remember correctly), and the instinct to ball up either when falling or around a possible predator (dog/cat). A lot of hedgehogs also have a terrible time trying to hunt live insects. I know that's all behavioral instincts that have changed or been lost, but still leaves me a tad concerned. I know my friend leaves her ferret's food (she also feeds raw) out for 4-5 hours, but that's also at a cooler temperature, with ferret temp needs, and with no heating lamp on it. Plus, keep in mind that wild hedgehogs also only live around 2-3 years, and that they can also end up with worms, etc.

I'm not sure with insects...one difference would be that they're live and being fed live - so harmful bacteria that may grow on dead meat/insects doesn't have a chance to grow since the hedgehog eats it live. I'm not sure what other bacteria might be in them...I would think if they had a lot of harmful bacteria on them, they wouldn't be able to live either? Though I suppose it might be a difference in immunity to it or something. 

All of my talk is rather unscientific as well. :lol: Just throwing out more ideas for whether it'd be a good idea or not!


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## lessthansign3 (Jun 1, 2013)

You bring up good points, but you have to remember that hedgehogs have been domesticated for a matter for decades, whereas ferrets have been domesticated for over two thousands years and they still manage the raw food just fine. Lost behavioral traits are very different from innate biological functions like the body's ability to process a certain variety of food. As other owners have already proven that hedgehogs can still handle raw, it doesn't concern me. I honestly believe there's as much bacteria in the raw meat I give my pets as you'd find in even a high quality kibble. Just look at all of the recalls coming out of the pet food industry because these foods are contaminated with salmonella. Yes, those foods are cooked, but they are still coated in animal fats. They are by no means clean. The meats we feed our pets are human grade. The meats that go into your kibbles are not.

There is, of course, the matter of temperature, but we're talking a matter of a few degrees difference from summer room temperature. When the food is starting out as a frozen cube, it could take hours to thaw completely. During that time, the hedgie would lick at it and nibble off what he could, or eat other provided foods like fresh greens or bugs or whatever. It would, over time, soften up enough for him to eventually eat the entire thing. Then, it has a few more hours before it would become 'bad'. If any remained by that point, it could be removed come morning. I think by starting at a frozen state, and keeping the dish as far away from the heat lamp as possible, it shouldn't be an issue. I won't know until I try it, of course, but this is the theory I'm working with.

As for the insects... Well, I generally think of insects as 'unclean', dirty things, whether live or dead. In fact, I'm going to have a difficult time getting myself to feed them to the new hedgie, even though I know I'll have to in order to balance a natural diet. Henry never liked them, for which I was always glad. Perhaps it was because I only tried the canned mealworms, but that was honestly all I was brave enough to try. Even now, I'm imagining myself buying a bag of crickets, throwing them in the freezer, and feeding little cricket-cicles. I'm a wimp when it comes to these things, I'll readily admit. I have no problem with earthworms or red wigglers, though - I grew up learning how to fish, and you've got to have bait after all. From what I hear, though, most hedgies want nothing to do with those worms. 

Anyway, I'm being totally unscientific and I'm sick right now so I'm not in the state of mind to go researching these things, but my best guess is that an insect, dead or alive, would have a similar bacteria load as raw meat would. Imagine the types of things those bugs eat naturally, and even if that's not what we're feeding to them before they're fed to our hedgies, they still probably have enough lovely bacteria in their systems. Hedgehogs, therefore, have the capacity to digest this bacteria. Total conjecture, but it's all I have the energy for at the moment.


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## Draenog (Feb 27, 2012)

This subject comes up once in a while and it's very interesting. I'd really like to feed my hedgehog more naturally but he's really picky (he doesn't like veggies or fruit), so it's hard to get him onto a natural diet. I keep trying though.



Lilysmommy said:


> we know that they've already lost a few wild traits such as hibernation (though that seems to be due to being a cross of two wild species, if I remember correctly), and the instinct to ball up either when falling or around a possible predator (dog/cat).


I always thought the hibernation issue was just because they aren't prepared for it. In the wild, hedgehogs build up enough fat so they can survive hibernation; our pet hedgehogs, who get fed the same amounts regularly and are kept on the same temperatures the whole time, don't have the need to do that.
I know someone who lets his pet hedgehogs prepare for hibernation every winter to let them hibernate through it (successfully).
As for the instinct: they are still kinda the same and of course certain things changed/are changing over time but it would take way longer to actually change the inside of the hedgehog - by that I mean the whole digestive system.

There are more people in my country who feed their hedgehogs (frozen) raw meat (mixes for cats or dogs) next to their normal kibble. Works great and the hedgehogs seem to love it. I think it's more common here than in the US.
I personally think hedgehogs can handle quite a lot. They're scavengers. In the wild, they eat basically everything they find. But every hog is different, mine never has any issues when I try out new foods.
The only real problem is: we still don't know what hedgehogs really need. Without that, it's hard to properly feed them. Right now kibble seems to work pretty fine, but a lot of hedgehogs get cancer - it is possible the food has something to do with that. It's a bit of a trial and error thing over the years until we find out what the right nutritional values, food and combinations are.
Feeding cats and dogs is a lot easier. Hedgehogs are more omnivorous, which makes it extremely hard to find a good balance in their diet when we actually don't know much about it (in terms of amounts; we know what they eat, but we aren't sure about how much of everything they are eating).


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## Amlinals (Jul 26, 2012)

Hi there, I haven't been on the forum in a while because it stopped being available on Tapatalk for some reason, but I just popped on to give everyone an update because it's Astrid's first birthday tomorrow. 
I flipped through the Nutrition section to see if any of my old topics had been added to and came across this one. You were looking for an update, so I guess I'll just post here  
So, yes, she turns a year old tomorrow. So that makes a good 9 months now at least that she's been kibble-free and on Nature's Variety Raw Bites exclusively (usually Duck, but sometimes chicken) and mealworms as treats. Occaisonally some crickets but she's not that great at stalking them down and i hate finding them crawling around in her blankies days later. >:/ so I may start freezing them again so that i'll give them more often. Very occasionally I'll buy her a hornworm.  
And the update? 
She's still doing great. Not overweight, Poops are still great, small firmly formed and not stinky. Still a good quantity of urine, nicely dilute, despite barely drinking from her water dish. Skin still good, no flakes, no losing quills.. I'm not sure what else to say. She seems to be a really really healthy hedgie.  
My only complaint is that her nails grow so fast! Lol oh, and that she still "goes" on us when she's out. Grrr... I had to buy waterproof-backed baby changing pads for my lap. Lol.


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