# Emergency! Ingested 409 cleaner!



## abbys (Oct 13, 2012)

I let Pig out to run around the living room and went potty in the corner, so I picked it him up in one hand and picked up the poop with a paper towel and sprayed it with some 409 to clean it. I put him at the very opposite end of the hallway while I threw out the paper towel, and in that time he somehow managed to run right back over and started anointing right where I had sprayed. My regular vet is closed right now and I'm looking for an emergency vet, but what do I do if I can't find one? Can I force him to vomit somehow, like with a tiny bit of hydrogen peroxide like you can do with dogs? I can't believe I hurt my baby...Please help!


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## abbys (Oct 13, 2012)

I found an ER vet that will see hedgehogs, but it will take me 45 minutes to get there in traffic. I'll get him ready to go, but is there anything I can do in the meantime to slow down anything he ingested?


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## sklock65 (Jan 9, 2013)

Maybe this is obvious but did you ask the emergency vet about anything you can do in the meantime? I would be sure to take some water along for the ride. Hope everything turns out alright!


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## abbys (Oct 13, 2012)

They told me to call pet poison control so I'm on the phone with them now. Maybe if I rock him in my hands I can make him kida carsick and he'll barf?


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## sklock65 (Jan 9, 2013)

I just tried looking at other forum threads and I'm not seeing anything about forcing them to vomit. Just try to stay calm. There is a chance he may be just fine if the solution is diluted enough or perhaps he didn't even eat that much of it to be detrimental. Is it possible he annointed with something else in that area? I've seen Henry anoint with VERY small amounts of food so maybe Piglet ingested only a lick!


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## abbys (Oct 13, 2012)

It was definitely 409. I don't know how he crossed the entire house so quickly to get back to that spot...

I've called 5 vets and been on the phone with poison control now for 15 minutes. It's been almost 45 minutes since it happened and these people are useless, but the ER vet said to call them before I come in! How long would it take to start seeing problems?

Poison control said to try and dilute the amount he ingested, and he won't drink any water so I gave him some sweet potato baby food, but there's only so much he'll eat before he pushes it away. Should I try making him drink water with a syringe?


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## sklock65 (Jan 9, 2013)

I wish someone else would hop on here that has some solid experience with this! I have never dealt with this myself I just know how I might be freaking out so anything I have to suggest may or may not be best! But IF IT WERE ME I would try to dilute what he has in his little body. So maybe food but I would definitely lean towards water for sure. Maybe you have to syringe it to get it down (I know Henry would only drink if HE wants to drink) but that way it is less concentrated in his stomach. If you only took your eyes off him for a second he really might not have been able to actually ingest much at all. Did the vet suggest ANYTHING you can do immediately? Can you ask if they think you should force water? They really should be able to tell you something if it's going to be another 45min before you can even get there. Do they seem concerned?


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## abbys (Oct 13, 2012)

They might be concerned if they answered the phone. I've been put on hold by every single place I've called. This is ridiculous! I'm on hold with the last ER vet I called to tell them what poison control said and to see if they have anything else to add. I got him to eat some juicy plum, but still no water.

Even if you don't have the answers, you have no idea how much your responding has gotten me to calm down. I was in hysterics earlier and could hardly talk when I started calling places. Your presence is much appreciated. 

And while I'm writing this, the vet finally came back to the phone and said that the baby food and plum are the best things I can do right now. I can try a syringe to get him a little water, but other than that all I can do is monitor him. I might sleep on the couch so I can listen to him in the living room. I can't believe I let this happen to my sweet boy...


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## fionas_mommy (Oct 27, 2012)

oh my gosh, poor pig! okay, i have NEVER experienced this, but I remember reading when I was doing research on hedgies before I got them, people said hedgies are actually quite resistant to toxins, which is why they think they anoint in the first place. In fact, probably *most* of the 409 was put back onto his skin when he did that.

"Incidentally, the toxin resistance of hedgehogs is truly prodigious and has been the subject of some research; they are one of the few animals that can safely eat giant toads for instance."

That says nothing about household cleaners. I've been trying to look at what is in 409. I think ammonia is the biggest concern. With cats, they will say to induce vomiting but I dont think I would do that with a hedgie. Instead, I would just watch really closely. If there are no signs within 24 hours, I would imagine it is fine. Again, completely my opinion and being an over protective mom I would probably still bring him to the vet in the morning or something. Watch for vomit, convulsing, slow breathing, and lethargy in particular (those are the symptoms in cats/dogs). 

I would def keep feeding him as much as I can. You think you could syringe him some water/kibble? He might take it for the kibble, but you'd be getting water in there at the same time. 

I'm really not sure, I'm just hoping for the best. I know how much I would be freaking out. But don't feel guilty, these things really happen. We all can see how much you love Pig, and he knows you would never hurt him on purpose. Just relax..what's done is done. Of course you didn't foresee that. Just watch real careful..and please keep us updated! I'll be sending good thoughts to you and him all night.


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## abbys (Oct 13, 2012)

Hokay, so he actually seems to be doing ok. At least well enough to struggle for his life when I tried giving him water with an eyedropper. Still not as difficult as trimming his nails, though!

If I tried giving him runny kibble, would that just soak up the liquid he's already eaten, or do you think it would be ok if it was saturated enough? He's gonna have to pee like a mofo in about an hour!

I'll call my vet first thing in the morning and get him in as soon as possible. I already texted my boss to say I may be late, and I'm pretty sure my neighbor thinks I'm crazy because I brought Pig over wrapped in a sweatshirt and asked him to watch him while I ran to the store for an eyedropper.

If I do start seeing symptoms, do you know if there's anything I can do or bring with me in the car for the 45 minute drive to the ER?

Thank you both so much for your help and reassurance. You have no idea the difference it made.


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## fionas_mommy (Oct 27, 2012)

abbys said:


> If I tried giving him runny kibble, would that just soak up the liquid he's already eaten, or do you think it would be ok if it was saturated enough? He's gonna have to pee like a mofo in about an hour!


Oh, I hadn't thought of that. Hmm..I'm really not sure. It would just be a guess for me to tell you anything. But good for pee! you want him to pee lots! lol like keeping a constant flow through him. he may actually drink more on his own tonight if he feels weird. to be completely honest, I would imagine hedgies to have a quick metabolism. They poop alot right? lol so I would THINK something toxic would show symptoms sooner rather than later. Ammonia is water soluble..it should flow out. We all have small bits of ammonia in our bodies. Gah, I'm really just thinking out loud to be honest Im sorry! I just want the best for little Pig.

As for a car ride to the vet, just keep him warm, and bring food and water. I can't think of anything else. I've been scouring the internet for an hour trying to look up anything useful but really no luck. Again, I'll be sending best wishes your way. He seems like a little fighter so I think he'll be okay. Again, just watch for weird behavior. Maybe wake up during the night to check on him once?


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## abbys (Oct 13, 2012)

fionas_mommy said:


> to be completely honest, I would imagine hedgies to have a quick metabolism. They poop alot right? lol so I would THINK something toxic would show symptoms sooner rather than later.


That's what I'm thinking, although poison control said to keep an eye out for the next few days. I'm gonna sleep on the couch tonight to listen to his activity level. He usually runs like there's a 24-hour fitness in his cage so it should be pretty noticeable if anything changes.

Thank you for everything!


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## sklock65 (Jan 9, 2013)

Sorry I was MIA for a bit there but like I said I just wish there was more I could say to help! I know I would probably freak out and think the worst too but maybe little Piglet is totally fine and sitting there looking at you like "MOM! Calm down! I was just trying that stuff it was gross and I'm fine!" Haha I've got my fingers crossed for you! At this point I would just really keep a close eye on him. What he eats/drinks and how he poops tonight. Just like with anything else just watch for anything out of the ordinary! I've seen your posts and I know how much you love your little hedgie the same way I do, so it's only natural to be concerned. Sending positive thoughts to little Piglet!!


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## AngelaH (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor little Pig! I have no advice to add to what's been said, I agree with what I've heard. I'd be a nervouse wreck too! I spaced I had some cleaner on my hand one time until I picked up Thistle and she started licking me, I was in such a panic! Keep us updated, my thoughts are with you and Thistle has her quills crossed for Pig.


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## sklock65 (Jan 9, 2013)

AngelaH said:


> Thistle has her quills crossed for Pig.


That is the cutest to picture a little hedgie standing with her quills crossed and her face looking like she is praying so hard that everything is going to be ok! I hope to hear a good update on little Piglet in the morning!!


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## abbys (Oct 13, 2012)

sklock65 said:


> I know I would probably freak out and think the worst too but maybe little Piglet is totally fine and sitting there looking at you like "MOM! Calm down! I was just trying that stuff it was gross and I'm fine!"


I think it's safe to say that that's exactly what happened. He's totally fine!  Pretty mad at me for fussing with him so much but he was active on his wheel and ate a normal amount last night. I have him at work with me just to be extra safe, but I'm feeling confident that I won't need to take him to his regular vet. 

Thank you guys for your help and for keeping me sane! And thank you little Thistle for your hedgie thoughts.


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## sklock65 (Jan 9, 2013)

!!!!!!! I just woke up and the first thing I did was hop on here for the update! I really had a feeling he was going to be totally fine I just didn't want to jinx it juuuuust in case. Better to be prepared and keeping an eye on him then not. YAY PIGLET! :lol:


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## fionas_mommy (Oct 27, 2012)

I haven't had time to comment today but rest assured I woke up and he was the first thing I thought of! I was waiting anxiously for a report. Even my boyfriend, who was here last night watching me frantically search the internet, asked me how he was this morning! Lol sooo glad he's looking good. So many times Fiona did something that scared me WAYY more than it scared her. I suddenly have a greater appreciation for my own mother :lol: but really, I'm so happy to hear all this


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## sklock65 (Jan 9, 2013)

Did everything really turn out totally fine even days later? Just curious in case (heaven forbid) anyone else has to go through this...myself included. Any stomach/poop issues that you could see?


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## abbys (Oct 13, 2012)

Yup!  He did have some green poop for a couple days, but I think that was more related to the fact that I stuffed him full of baby food and plum (which he had never had before) in order to get water in him, since he wouldn't drink water straight.

Although anyone who may look at this thread for help in the future should know that Piglet didn't ingest much of the 409 as I caught him quickly, and because of that, the pet poison control said that he probably got most of what he ingested out of his system when he anointed with it.

Some valuable lessons I learned:
- Make sure you know the closest ER vet that will see hedgehogs. There are 3 ER vets near me in Seattle, but the closest one that can treat hedgehogs is actually 45 minutes away. 
- Call pet poison control, especially if your ER vet is far away. The ER vet told me to call them first since that's the first thing they would do anyway. The phone number might vary state to state in the U.S., but there's also this website: http://www.petpoisonhelpline.com/. And be prepared to pay a fee. I was charged $45, but the doctor who worked with me also called me the next afternoon to make sure Piglet was ok, so that was pretty nice. 
- They may tell you to force fluids so make sure you have a syringe or eyedropper you can use to get water in them. Baby food and fruit are also good sources of water.
- Stay calm. Calling your parents in hysterics only wastes time, and the vet/poison control may not be able to understand you if you're crying. I may or may not be guilty of doing this...  
- Hedgies can really hold a grudge if you fuss with them and make them stay awake when they don't want to! But if you give them cuddles and let them catch up on their sleep, they'll forgive you in a day or two.


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## sklock65 (Jan 9, 2013)

Super glad to hear that! Sounds like little Piglet rewarded your hysterics with colored poop...how fun  

That all is great advice...thanks for posting!


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