# Ugh The African Pigmy Hedgehog Lovers Facebook group :/



## ShutUpAndSmile

This group on Facebook is kinda driving me crazy. 
Is anyone else a member? 
I might just leave the group unless someone else can join and help me out cause almost every post makes me want to bash my head against a wall.

For example right now, I posted telling someone that their Silent Spinner was dangerous and she was like 
Yeah I heard about that and I talked to the person and the breeder and they said it was okay. 
I informed her that there are more accounts of hedgehogs getting hurt by this wheel. And she asked for me to find the accounts and just because a wheel (or other object) hurts one hog doesn't mean it's dangerous. -head bang on desk- 

And earlier in the week when I informed someone who had a set up with no ventilation and FAN blowing on their hedgehog to add ventilation they were like "Oh I don't see why they need that much air" -head bang on desk- I also informed them the fan could give them a draft and that could lead to hibernation. Was ignored. And then chastised by the admin saying basically "Everyone has their own way" 
Just cause you "have your own way" doesn't mean it's the right one.. 

-rant-


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## coribelle

There is an awful picture floating around this forum of the damage a Silent Spinner can do. 
http://hedgehogcentral.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=14937&p=132358&hilit=silent+spinner#p131162
If they don't believe you, they should after this picture. Otherwise they are just ignorant.
I would leave too hahaha. I have a hard time dealing with stuff like that.


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## ShutUpAndSmile

I did post it. :3 

I just don't get it though. If there is a .000001% chance of opal getting hurt by a wheel when I can just go buy a known safe wheel with a 0% chance why not?

And why the heck do they post pics if they don't wanna get critiqued on there cage if it's wrong. I can't just be like "oh looks great!" mean while it has a ss and no ventilation.


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## Guest

Did i read correctly this page was started by an 11 yearold?


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## Guest

Opps nvm read wrong, 

have you posted the link for Hedgehog Central yet?


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## moxieberry

I just joined. I'll probably jump in on the conversation a little later .. or maybe quickly now before I leave. On a trip to buy more hedgie-spoiling items, of course. XD


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## ShutUpAndSmile

Over and over and over again I've posted the link for HHC. 
But for some reason they have the opinion that since I'm from the USA and they are from the UK our hedgehogs don't have the same needs. (Not saying everyone in UK thinks that. But it seems to be a trend here)

Maybe I'll rebel and make my own hedgehog page <3


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## Draenog

Didn't know about this group, but some people are just so ignorant... of course you can get something wrong, but don't be stubborn when it can be dangerous for your pet. But this happens with all kinds of animals, sad enough. Some people just don't seem to care... or don't seem to care enough.

The picture of the silent spinner is horrible :shock: does anyone know what happened to the hedgehog afterwards, was it hurt real bad or not?

Edit: and it shouldn't make a difference whether you're from the UK or the states or whatever. In my country there is so little known about hedgehogs I got most of my information from this website or other English fora. Some people should just _read_ before they buy a pet.


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## vasogoma

I don't understand people like that, on the contrary! IF you guys tell me "get other type of liner" the first thing I do is thank you and do so because I know you know more than I do about hedgies. It is as if they didn't really care at all about their pet's security.


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## moxieberry

There, posted! ... twice!

Also, I would be much more interested in a different hedgehog page. If you decide to make one, count me in as one of the mods/admin or whatever. It'd probably be a lot more fun if the people running the group aren't... um. Yeah.


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## Draenog

Found the group and read it, I'm not even going to join I'll probably get too frustrated.


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## Guest

i just joined the other group and ill give you some back up especially on the silent spinner thing and maybe post a link again. that wheel is disturbing

as for the Uk hedgehog have different needs then Us hedgehogs? They are all african pygmy hedgehogs and thye have the seem needs. where they are geographically doesnt affect their needs.

If you make a group please let me know. id love to join


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## ShutUpAndSmile

I created another group. 
http://www.facebook.com/groups/305231342873206/
Feel free to join. lol.
I think I'll stay apart of the other one for a little bit at least. Not to much longer or I'll go nuts.


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## Draenog

Quillzmom said:


> i just joined the other group and ill give you some back up especially on the silent spinner thing and maybe post a link again. that wheel is disturbing
> 
> as for the Uk hedgehog have different needs then Us hedgehogs? They are all african pygmy hedgehogs and thye have the seem needs. where they are geographically doesnt affect their needs.
> 
> If you make a group please let me know. id love to join


Well then I wonder what needs a Dutch hedgehog would have. Maybe they should wear clogs, eat cheese and tulips and own a bicycle. :lol:

(Just joking. Besides that, no one wears clogs any more, though I love cheese we don't have tulips in my home/garden, but I have to admit you have to own a bicycle  )


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## Guest

Maybe stay on long enough to invite people to get some accurate info. 

I joined.


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## Guest

Draenog said:


> Quillzmom said:
> 
> 
> 
> i just joined the other group and ill give you some back up especially on the silent spinner thing and maybe post a link again. that wheel is disturbing
> 
> as for the Uk hedgehog have different needs then Us hedgehogs? They are all african pygmy hedgehogs and thye have the seem needs. where they are geographically doesnt affect their needs.
> 
> If you make a group please let me know. id love to join
> 
> 
> 
> Well then I wonder what needs a Dutch hedgehog would have. Maybe they should wear clogs, eat cheese and tulips and own a bicycle. :lol:
> 
> (Just joking. Besides that, no one wears clogs any more, though I love cheese we don't have tulips in my home/garden, but I have to admit you have to own a bicycle  )
Click to expand...

If you could get a hedgie to wear clogs i would love a picture :lol:


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## Draenog

Actually I was thinking of buying one for her (to snuggle in), but since you can only buy them in pairs I didn't do it yet. But well, no hedgie things for me any more. Maybe in the future.

I joined as well!


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## LarryT

I get a few request to join hedgehog groups on FB every week and I never join because I don't need anymore headaches, not lol ing! Sometimes they just go ahead and add me so I have to leave the group. :roll: I am a member of Lou's FB group, she's from the UK and does her best to steer people in the right direction, love her.


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## Guest

Draenog said:


> Actually I was thinking of buying one for her (to snuggle in), but since you can only buy them in pairs I didn't do it yet. But well, no hedgie things for me any more. Maybe in the future.
> 
> I joined as well!


Im sorry about your little girl


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## vasogoma

I just woke up so it might be in front of me, I'm sorry in advance if that is the case 
Do you have the link to the fb group you were talking about? I might as well join you and help you "enlighten" them.


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## LarryT

vasogoma said:


> I just woke up so it might be in front of me, I'm sorry in advance if that is the case
> Do you have the link to the fb group you were talking about? I might as well join you and help you "enlighten" them.


 Join the new group  
https://www.facebook.com/groups/305231342873206/


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## Draenog

Quillzmom said:


> Draenog said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually I was thinking of buying one for her (to snuggle in), but since you can only buy them in pairs I didn't do it yet. But well, no hedgie things for me any more. Maybe in the future.
> 
> I joined as well!
> 
> 
> 
> Im sorry about your little girl
Click to expand...

Thank you, it's still hard, but I start to find comfort in the fact that she went easily and without pain and that she was a great hedgie all the way. I'll miss her for sure.

vasogoma, the group: http://www.facebook.com/groups/230533510337068/


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## ShutUpAndSmile

They are still talking about how things are done differently in the USA and the UK. 
That bugs me. D:


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## Immortalia

At least someone from the UK stepped up saying that they make bucket wheels. So no more excuses.


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## ShutUpAndSmile

Exactly x3


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## Draenog

Besides that you can easily make them yourself. Why use a wheel that is known to cause damage to hedgehogs. I don't get it. :?


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## moxieberry

Joined the new (read: better) group. ShutUpAndSmile, I love the name of the group, rock on. XD


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## Kalandra

Sometimes you just have to stay in the bad places and deal with the head bashing incidents. Creating a new place and leaving the bad is only going to allow that bad information to continue to be taught. There has to be at least one person that stays to either get people to go to better places, or to be the person to give sane advise. Hopefully it will save at least 1 hedgehog's life at some point.

Yahoo Answers is a good example of a similar type of place. I HATE, really there isn't a word strong enough for the negative feelings I have for Yahoo Answers, Y!A. The questions are often horrible, and the answers that get posted are equally as bad. And I'm not talking about those that are obvious trolling posts, but there are people who seriously think they are being helpful but all they are doing is continuing to spread dangerous advice. I torture myself on a frequent basis by visiting that site and attempting to keep a bit of sane advice being given. It frustrates me, and it frustrates me more when I get out voted by bad advice. But I endure the torture and hope that it saves a life at some point in time.


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## Draenog

Kalandra said:


> Sometimes you just have to stay in the bad places and deal with the head bashing incidents. Creating a new place and leaving the bad is only going to allow that bad information to continue to be taught. There has to be at least one person that stays to either get people to go to better places, or to be the person to give sane advise. Hopefully it will save at least 1 hedgehog's life at some point.
> 
> Yahoo Answers is a good example of a similar type of place. I HATE, really there isn't a word strong enough for the negative feelings I have for Yahoo Answers, Y!A. The questions are often horrible, and the answers that get posted are equally as bad. And I'm not talking about those that are obvious trolling posts, but there are people who seriously think they are being helpful but all they are doing is continuing to spread dangerous advice. I torture myself on a frequent basis by visiting that site and attempting to keep a bit of sane advice being given. It frustrates me, and it frustrates me more when I get out voted by bad advice. But I endure the torture and hope that it saves a life at some point in time.


I think there are still people left in that group (I never joined, didn't know about it).  But I agree with you, but some people just don't listen. The only thing you can do then is hope for the best and hope that at least another person will get the advise.


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## jerseymike1126

the photo album for this group, amazing


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## AngelicDarkness

Draenog said:


> Quillzmom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Draenog said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually I was thinking of buying one for her (to snuggle in), but since you can only buy them in pairs I didn't do it yet. But well, no hedgie things for me any more. Maybe in the future.
> 
> I joined as well!
> 
> 
> 
> Im sorry about your little girl
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Thank you, it's still hard, but I start to find comfort in the fact that she went easily and without pain and that she was a great hedgie all the way. I'll miss her for sure.
> 
> vasogoma, the group: http://www.facebook.com/groups/230533510337068/
Click to expand...

Thanks for the link!


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## Guest

I posted the hedgehog central link on the page again earlier and i will continue to try and help with the old group . 

Its nice to have abreak from tho with the new one. Plus tons of cute hedgie picture! yay!


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## AngelicDarkness

I am thankful for the new group. I do not like the negativity and insults of the older group. Very immature Imo.


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## jerseymike1126

50+ members!


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## ShutUpAndSmile

I'm very excited about the new group 

The old one kicked me out. (and some others too)
Maybe they need someone from the UK to join so they can't just bring up the whole geography thing. Thats what annoyed me the most.


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## moxieberry

Yeah, if they're the kind of people to lash out at concerned advice and delete the posts that contradict their close-minded opinions, there's nothing any of us can really do about it. The new one is going strong, and I'm very proud to be one of the admin!


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## LarryT

https://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/229418573750995/
This is a link to another UK based FB group, they are reasonable and nice and realize we can all learn from each other.


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## moxieberry

Thanks for the link, Larry! I'd love to get involved in more groups on facebook, since I check on there so often. Part of being a college student, it's a nice break from doing work and I also have a ton of different friends in different locations, fb is the best way to keep track of everyone, haha. I'll definitely join this one and check it out! :]


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## Rainy

moxieberry said:


> Thanks for the link, Larry! I'd love to get involved in more groups on facebook, since I check on there so often. Part of being a college student, it's a nice break from doing work and I also have a ton of different friends in different locations, fb is the best way to keep track of everyone, haha. I'll definitely join this one and check it out! :]


They are a great group of people and Lou is fantastic!


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## LarryT

moxieberry said:


> Thanks for the link, Larry! quote]
> 
> You are welcome!


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## GoldenEyes

A few of them were extremely rude, I couldn't believe it. I thought it was a hedgehog lovers page, but I guess i was wrong because clearly they felt I did something wrong. Maybe I love my Baby Girl too much. Oh well, Im happy to be a part of the new facebook group, so much less negativity!


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## shetlandlover

As one of the admin that helps run that page I am not only disappointed but disgusted by your immaturity. 
The group is run by Lynn who's a wonderful first time hedgehog owner who set it up to help get advice and suggestions to other hedgehog owners from those more experienced. Not a petty bitch fest.

I have mesh viv's and glass fronted viv's, my glass front viv's all have extra vents to help ventilation. I use 4 different wheels, Larry's storm wheel, Larry's bucket wheel, I own 1 silent spinner which I use as a back up wheel and I have a Crittercribz bucket wheel. I have used the silent spinner once and had no accidents, I know others who use Silent spinners pretty much all the time and have never had any incidents. I personally dislike the Silent spinner as I find them hard to clean and not that Silent. However up until the end of July 2011 we had no UK made wheels, now we have Crittercribz wheels which I find amazing, easy to clean and very very gentle I know for a fact most breeders are slowly swapping their Silent spinners for Cribbercibz wheels. However for breeders who have quite a few hedgehogs £20+ per wheel can soon add up. Hence why many are changing over slowly.

Anyway back to the issue at hand. If you have a issue with the group take it up with Lynn or one of the admin (my PM box is always open). Instead of toddling off and acting all offended. The group is there to give advice, I know I have myself given plenty advice on there for the correct care and housing of hedgehogs. Sadly, this past month I have not been around as much due to personal issues. But there are many other great admin there to give advice as well as active members who have owned hedgehogs for as long as they have been in the UK. Its a kick in the face to everyone (admin and active members on the group) to go off and slag off the group. Got a issue? Take it up with the owner or the admin. Then at least we can reply.


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## Jamiioo

Just thought i would post here as i find this thread a bit offensive, it is tarring every single member of that group by the same brush just because you may have had a disagreement with a few people - everyone is entitled to their own opinion aren't they, can opinions not be shared without creating something like this? UK Members do use this forum too.

African Pygmy Hedgehog lovers was set up after initially most of the UK based hog facebook groups are full of people with no interest in hog welfare at all, most of them just trying to make a quick buck out of breeding and selling hogs to anyone (Seriously - go search them). The moderators of the group i think are great, one of whom i believe is a recommended breeder - they know their stuff and do their best to educate people and give out the appropriate advice to those who need it. If you really think that this group is that bad then seriously go take a look at some of the others on facebook, then i can guarantee you will have something to bash your head about, i did hence the reason i left most of them.

I think it is kind of sad that this whole thing was started by the difference of opinion on the use of silent spinners, even though it was already explained on the post to non-UK residents that until very recently (last year when Larry came on the scene with bucket wheels that could be imported) that silent spinners were one of the only "good" wheels widely and easily available for purchase to hog owners in the UK unless you wanted to use something like a flying saucer, hence why alot of people do still use them and they are still recommended by alot of people.

Basically people ended up being asked why would they use a wheel that had the potential to injure their hog when they could get something that is 100% safe in comparison. Points were then brought up such as, well in the UK we advise against using cages with barred sides as there is a risk of hogs climbing up the sides and falling down - with the risk of catching their legs and causing injury in the process, yet in places like the USA these are still recommended.

Goldeneyes i would just like to say also, i did see your posts on the threads and as much as you like a debate (don't we all) a few of your posts i think could have been put across a bit better, by which i mean they could easily have been taken offence to in the way they were worded which is probably why a few people got defensive. I guess that is just my opinion though.


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## klaueyy

I've been in that facebook group for a few months now... been a hedgie owner not long ago! And first I thought woow, I will never be able to participate cos I dont know as much as others there. But thats not why Lynn and the admins have created this page, its for everyone and their experiences.

So regarding what wheel you use, depends on you. I personally had a bad experience with the silent spinners, Rammus did cut his tootsie on it.. it did bleed, but not at all to the extent of that photo (I'm sure the hedgie would be knocked out or worse dead, loosing that much blood in that pic btw)... also cleaning is hard due to that two part thing! HOWEVER, if there was a wheel like the Silent spinner without the middle gap thing, I would totally purchase it, the running position of Rammus is more natural, his legs are even, unlike bucket wheel and flying saucers. (I currently own a comfort wheel... been great)

That's the point of the group, to share experiences and get questions answered!! If you decide to criticise, state your reasons and don't be rude about it.. people love to listen and discuss but when it turns into a b****fest, it feels like a forum not a group!
Also I am member of a lot of african pygmy hedgehog groups. This particular one has more activity on it than others, which is why I prefer it  There has never been any b*tching, it has always been useful and always fun. So does it surprise you when you bust our fun with your* unreasonable* negativity.. we will get defensive? I mean... opal, you recently opened a new facebook page.. imagine having some people come in and causing trouble and turn your nice fun page into a b***fest. I'm sure you would feel the same?

Last point, stereotyping that all UK hogs get the same care and US hogs get different care is wrong. I am sure there are many UK hogs that get cared for differently from other UK hogs hence their different personalities! Environmentally, it's colder in the UK than the US, it's less humid here.. so I guess some people have different cages here compared the US. Also availability is a factor.. I'm sure our cat food brands is slightly different to the US ones, does that mean we don't satisfy our hedgehogs needs? No.

and a btw  Rammus loves bacon! he shouldn't.... but he does nibble on my bacon egg sandwich after he climbed up my top!


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## kelz

im the one you told that the silent spinner was dangerous but i havent got a problem with it i care for my sonic as much as any other hedgehog only at the end of the day we all use different wheels for me that wheel didnt even look like a silent spinner and with all that blood i would of thought there would of also been some in the subtrate and yes i also said uk does things different than usa because we done we wouldnt recommend a wire cage but usa uses them all the time doesnt make anyone right or wrong just different ways


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## LarryT

Everyone is different no doubt and it's very easy to come off as rude on the internet.  I read most of the silent spinner post and sure some people came off as rude to me(from both sides) but I just let it go and moved on to more important things like my life lol something I can control, enough drama in my life without adding anymore to it. I do what works for me as i'm sure you all do what works for you, definitely not saying you all are bad owners in any way.  Good luck with your hogs and God bless.


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## jayleepraise

ShutUpAndSmile said:


> I created another group.
> http://www.facebook.com/groups/305231342873206/
> Feel free to join. lol.
> I think I'll stay apart of the other one for a little bit at least. Not to much longer or I'll go nuts.


I requested to join!


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## AngelicDarkness

shetlandlover said:


> As one of the admin that helps run that page I am not only disappointed but disgusted by your immaturity.
> The group is run by Lynn who's a wonderful first time hedgehog owner who set it up to help get advice and suggestions to other hedgehog owners from those more experienced. Not a petty B**** fest.
> 
> I have mesh viv's and glass fronted viv's, my glass front viv's all have extra vents to help ventilation. I use 4 different wheels, Larry's storm wheel, Larry's bucket wheel, I own 1 silent spinner which I use as a back up wheel and I have a Crittercribz bucket wheel. I have used the silent spinner once and had no accidents, I know others who use Silent spinners pretty much all the time and have never had any incidents. I personally dislike the Silent spinner as I find them hard to clean and not that Silent. However up until the end of July 2011 we had no UK made wheels, now we have Crittercribz wheels which I find amazing, easy to clean and very very gentle I know for a fact most breeders are slowly swapping their Silent spinners for Cribbercibz wheels. However for breeders who have quite a few hedgehogs £20+ per wheel can soon add up. Hence why many are changing over slowly.
> 
> Anyway back to the issue at hand. If you have a issue with the group take it up with Lynn or one of the admin (my PM box is always open). Instead of toddling off and acting all offended. The group is there to give advice, I know I have myself given plenty advice on there for the correct care and housing of hedgehogs. Sadly, this past month I have not been around as much due to personal issues. But there are many other great admin there to give advice as well as active members who have owned hedgehogs for as long as they have been in the UK. Its a kick in the face to everyone (admin and active members on the group) to go off and slag off the group. Got a issue? Take it up with the owner or the admin. Then at least we can reply.


I'm sure it is a great group - like I said previously on the FB group, I had checked it out a few weeks prior. However, that being said, I was also rudely attacked twice. Thus I left. I don't have issues, I just do not like being spoken to disrespectfully. And I recall bringing that up with an admin, only to be told that I was rude to a member and my behaviour wouldn't be tolerated. Apparently calling people out on an insult that should be deleted is inappropriate.


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## klaueyy

Lol another thing people tend to forget  ... The English Humor is sarcasm  ... what can be seen as rude from anyone outside the UK....... its not meant to be rude


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## Draenog

Jamiioo said:


> I think it is kind of sad that this whole thing was started by the difference of opinion on the use of silent spinners, even though it was already explained on the post to non-UK residents that until very recently (last year when Larry came on the scene with bucket wheels that could be imported) that silent spinners were one of the only "good" wheels widely and easily available for purchase to hog owners in the UK unless you wanted to use something like a flying saucer, hence why alot of people do still use them and they are still recommended by alot of people.


About the wheels, I find this just a bad excuse. We don't have hedgehogs wheels here, no bucket wheels, nothing. I doubt we even have silent spinners or flying saucers (I've never seen the last one before I joined this forum) It's so easy to make your own wheel. Don't want to do it your own? Order it from the states. It's not that hard. I wouldn't risk it after hearing bad stories and seeing such a picture. But well, that's me!

I don't have a thing against the people in that group, I don't know them and haven't read their comments. But about this one particular thread, well yes, it's just that I think you should listen to advise (but still it's your choice to do something with it or not) but don't just wave it away with something like "well we do it different here". But dunno, I didn't think the discussion was rude? But well that could just be me being Dutch... we seem to be "rude" all the time... or at least that's what we hear from other countries XD


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## klaueyy

Draenog said:


> About the wheels, I find this just a bad excuse. We don't have hedgehogs wheels here, no bucket wheels, nothing. I doubt we even have silent spinners or flying saucers (I've never seen the last one before I joined this forum) It's so easy to make your own wheel. Don't want to do it your own? Order it from the states. It's not that hard. I wouldn't risk it after hearing bad stories and seeing such a picture. But well, that's me!
> 
> I don't have a thing against the people in that group, I don't know them and haven't read their comments. But about this one particular thread, well yes, it's just that I think you should listen to advise (but still it's your choice to do something with it or not) but don't just wave it away with something like "well we do it different here". But dunno, I didn't think the discussion was rude? But well that could just be me being Dutch... we seem to be "rude" all the time... or at least that's what we hear from other countries XD


Have you ever used a Silent Spinner? Some people have with great experiences, some with bad ones. For me, it was an unfortunate one, thats why I'm not going to use one again.... It's the same as if you get mugged in the bus, you wouldn't really wanna use one again? There is always the fear lingering. But to those who never had a problem... why would they stop? 
The replacement costs is really expensive. No one is waving it off and saying "we do it differently here". Everyone listens. It's to do with how you come across stating it... I mean throughout the posts, there are nooooo proof of someone actually having a bad experience? And if there is, what was it? Is that one in the picture and actual silent spinner? Is it real blood ( I have my doubts, as when my hedgie was bleeding a little it went through the gaps... I did not see any blood on the bedding). Did any hedgie die from using a silent spinner? Was there behaviour change with their hedgie when using a SS? It's exactly like the media, you can make something seem like something else. But without facts, its just an opinion  and everyone has one .


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## GoldenEyes

I was kind and honest when I posted, I joined the group because I heard there was a debate and I was interested. I didnt get rude, if you can even call it that, until I was called out falsely. It was uncalled for and when I asked for an apology I was denied it, rudely again. It was like 10 against 1 in that group and no matter how much I tried to debate the issue with not only wheels but cages and ramps as well, I was called out some more. 

It was rude.. it was unfortunate. The lady who was rude has since said on your fb page that she should have apologized and I accept that as an apology. That's all I wanted. Thats it. I meant no ill will towards anyone, and I never said you guys were "wrong" Im pretty sure I said that many times to clarify that I wasnt judging any of you. And yet you guys decided to take it and twist it. Thats fine though, you deleted me from the group, and while that was a tad uncalled for as I had not done anything wrong I accept that and its fine. The next time I travel to the UK I guess I will just have to ask on this forum for advice on where things are and how things are done. 

Theres my rant lol meant with kindest as always.


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## Nancy

The admins and mods have discussed this thread and feel that facebook disagreements should be kept on facebook. This thread is now closed.


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