# Homemade (raw?) diet recipe



## Barbara811 (Sep 2, 2015)

Here I am, asking for help!
Last time I wrote, I told you I was thinking about feeding Castagna with b.a.r.f. food (bone and raw food) for dogs. I picked a bag of chicken and salmon (+veggies), and deer (+veggies). ***I also feed him with insects everyday***
Castagna didn't like deer, and neither the peas and the carrots in it.
But he really enjoys his chicken and salmon raw food (he still leaves the peas and the carrots).
Since this kind of raw food smell terrible (and I don't know where the meat comes from), I was thinking of making my own raw food, following this food composition:
*beef tripe* 25% (maybe I can replace it with kidneys - they are not too fat like beef tripe, which is good since there is salmon which will provide fats, and have vitamins and minerals - and chicken stomach since it is only sold "bleached" and it's not healthy at all. Pancreas is to be avoided since is rich in phosphorus.)
*chicken meat* 20%,
*brown rice* 13% (which he leaves all the time. Has a lot of undesirable carbs, little vitamins and fibers which I'm sure I can replace with some veggies), 
*Peas* 10% + *Carrots* 10% + *Swedish Turnip* 10% = 30% veggies (Castagna enjoys broccoli, pumpkin and zucchini)
*Salmon* 5% (I'm thinking of giving it all to him: including the skin - without the scales - and bones... is that a good idea?)
*Liver* 5%
The rest (2%) are vitamins and minerals.

Recap:
*35% veggies*
*30% chicken/lamb/beef innards*
*20% chicken/beef meat*
*8% salmon (including skin and bones)*
*5% liver*
*2% vitamins and minerals*

My concern is whether or not to serve raw food. Is it dangerous to give him raw fish? Since omega-3 is thermolabile, I should serve it raw. Should I leave the fish in the freezer for at least 72 hours? 
What about the chicken? According to the FSA 65% of the chicken meat is contaminated with campylobacter not to mention with salmonella.

Any suggestions?


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

Serving raw food is a personal comfort/opinion thing. IMO, I don't have an issue with it. I think a healthy animal is able to deal with it, and it's fine as long as you're careful about your sourcing, use common sense when handling the meat, and keep an eye out for potential problems. That said, there is an increased risk with raw food versus cooked food, which some people aren't comfortable with. How the hedgehog eats & your schedule can affect whether it's a good idea or not as well - Bindi eats her raw meat first thing & it doesn't sit out in her cage for more than a couple hours. If it was sitting out all night before the hedgehog eats it, that might be more of a risk. 

From my raw feeding groups, if the food is sold for human consumption, you don't have to worry about freezing it for any specific amount of time. Freezing won't help with bacteria & parasites are mainly a concern with wild-caught food. Wild-caught salmon in stores is usually frozen before you buy it, though it wouldn't hurt to ask if you're not sure. 

As far as your proposed recipe, I have some concerns with it.

The salmon is fine & the liver amount is correct. But at least with what I know of raw diets, it's best to have other organs present in the same amount - 5%. Those organs can be kidney, pancreas, brain, & testicles. Possibly others, those are what I remember off the top of my head. So I wouldn't do 30% of kidney or anything like that as it could easy cause an imbalance of vitamins/minerals. And chicken stomach isn't going to have much nutrition that I know of. I would definitely still include kidney (and it wouldn't hurt to vary that organ when you make new batches, if you can find anything else), but just make sure it's a smaller amount & make up the difference with muscle meat.

I'm guessing the veggies you're proposing to feed are what Castagna eats, not the ones in bold? The ones he likes are better as far as nutrition goes, though I don't know about zucchini. I would add in a couple other kinds, if he'll eat them mixed together. I try for things high in a variety of vitamins & minerals, to avoid having two or more that are both high in the same thing & to have a nice variety of natural sources of vitamins & minerals.

What's your plan for the vitamins & minerals? You'll want to be careful with that - some are more easily overdosed than others, so you'll want to make sure you're not giving too much. Check to see what the product you buy has in it & amounts. You'll also have to make sure you have the right amount of calcium supplemented to balance the diet - insects are generally high in phosphorus, and so is the muscle meat & organs. Depending on the veggies, they likely won't have the right ratio of calcium to phosphorus either, so you'll want to double check that.


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## Barbara811 (Sep 2, 2015)

Thanks Lilysmommy, your help is so precious!

So ok for *8% salmon, 5% liver and 5% kidneys.*
Maybe I can add *5% lungs* (high in sodium, iron, potassium, phosphorus but also in B vitamins and C vitamin, low in calcium)?
And also *5% pancreas* (a bit fat, high in phosphorus and potassium but with a proper minerals balance should work, and has also selenium, B vitamins, C vitamin and a lot of amino acids)
*5% brain* (still high in phosphorus but low in potassium. High in iron, B1, B2, PP and C vitamins. High in fats - almost 13%)
*10% bones*

In this thread http://www.hedgehogcentral.com/forums/12-diet-nutrition/23066-raw-home-cooked-diets.html it is suggested a 80/10/10 model. 
Here we have a 65/25/10. Is it ok anyway?

Vitamins & minerals plan: first I want to figure out which meat/organs I want to include in this recipe, and then I can calculate the right amount of vitamins (especially calciumhosphorus ratio). Commercial raw foods are contain added vitamins, so I will probably need to buy a vitamins & minerals supplement. Anyway, for know, I mix a pinch of calcium in his food everyday.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

No, you want the non-liver organs to be only 5% total. You don't want to include all of them at once at 5% each. You can include lungs if you want, but in raw feeding, they're considered muscle meat, as is heart.


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## Barbara811 (Sep 2, 2015)

Lilysmommy said:


> No, you want the non-liver organs to be only 5% total. You don't want to include all of them at once at 5% each. You can include lungs if you want, but in raw feeding, they're considered muscle meat, as is heart.


Perfect, now that's clear :grin:

So, recap again:
*Veggies/Fruit *(I have to figure out what Castagna eats and what he doesn't eat. He is a real picky guy)
*10% bones* (from meat and from salmon)
*5% liver
5% non-liver organs *(probably based on what the butcher sells that day)
*10% salmon
70% mixed meat *(chicken, beef muscle)
+ vitamins & minerals (any tips? I'm concerned about A vitamin, since it is high in the liver)


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

Yup, that sounds right!  And unfortunately, I'm not sure on the vitamins & minerals as I don't really have any experience using any. You could check out both dog & cat ones - I see that Petsmart has a powder cat vitamin/mineral supplement which would probably be easier to use than having to crush tablets. My recommendation for amounts is to look up the AAFCO guidelines for vitamins & minerals in cat food and what the limits/amounts are so you can get an idea of what you're aiming for. Then you can check and see how much is in the supplement & whether it may be a problem combined with the liver. https://www.nutrition.gov/ should have info on the amounts for the liver, though you'll have to do some math based on the weight of liver you'll be giving. I'd also make sure you check any veggies & maybe avoid ones high in vitamin A, depending on what you find on the supplement & liver. I know carrot & sweet potato are high, I can't recall any others off the top of my head.


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## Barbara811 (Sep 2, 2015)

Sorry if I am a bit slow with my answers, but I took my time to organize Castagna's homemade diet.
I've met a kind butcher who was willing to sell me some kidneys (they are pretty rare here) in addition to some fresh liver, lungs and some pieces of trachea (those were all sold together, so probably I'll throw the trachea and the lungs).
I also bought some salmon and some chicken breast. Both with bones. Tonight I will figure out how to crush them...
I bought grounded beef muscle and grounded veal muscle, green beans, a bell pepper and some pumpkin as well.

According to my researches, 5% of liver daily won't satisfy a hedgehog vitamin A daily request. So I was thinking to include some premium kibble as they have all kind of vitamins and minerals. Anyway, I'll give him a pinch of calcium powder everyday, as always.


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## Barbara811 (Sep 2, 2015)

Maybe, since lungs are considered in raw feeding as a muscle, I could add the lungs the butcher gave me. How does it sound?


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