# Weight



## Brooke2Lancelot (Sep 9, 2019)

Ok, so my hedgehog weighs 493grams now. And I have already changed him to a lower fat and protein food prior to his weighing.

I’m scared he’ll get obese now, seeing as he hasn’t stopped picking up weight. What else can I do to try and make him lose weight? Or atleast stabilise?


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## Emc (Nov 18, 2018)

How much do you feed him?


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## Brooke2Lancelot (Sep 9, 2019)

Enough so that when I take him out of his cage the next morning, there’s still a little bit of kibble left in his bowl.


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## Emc (Nov 18, 2018)

And how much is that? A teaspoon, a tablespoon, two tablespoons?... for most hedgehogs, a tablespoon is more than enough - they don’t need 24/7 access to kibble at all times. If they eat it all, it’s fine. If he’s gaining weight, he’s eating too much food - so, if you know a specific amount of how much you feed him, it is the only way we can help him lose weight (along with adequate exercise).


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## Brooke2Lancelot (Sep 9, 2019)

Ok, I’ll weigh the amount I’m feeding him tonight. 
And the exercise isn’t a problem. He loves his wheel and runs on it through the night. 

Another question I have involving this; I have started soaking his food in hot water to soften it up for him. I pour the boiled water into his food, stir, drain the water and put the hot food into the fridge to cool it off. 
When I take it out, it’s a lot softer. Does this have any negative effect on the food? Like loss of protein or nutrition?


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## Emc (Nov 18, 2018)

Im not sure about draining off excess water; i don't know if you'd be losing some nutrition via that method, or if you are whether it's even significant enough for it to have an impact. I'd just add the water needed, and leave any that isn't absorbed in the bowl - don't drain it. Overall; soaking kibble doesnt have any negative impact on a food from a nutritional stand point. If anything, its believed to be kinder to your pets stomach and more palatable. 

If exercise isnt an issue, then it's (likely) food quantity - so definitely weigh it and see how much youre feeding.


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## Brooke2Lancelot (Sep 9, 2019)

Ok so I just weighed the food. I feed him 50 grams every night.


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

50g of food is a lot. Especially if he eats most of it.

I thought that 20g was a lot (thats what Holly was actually eating when I weighed hers out after getting the weight issues)

I think you definitely need to feed less biscuit to Igor.
Reduce the food by like 2-4g a week and monitor his progress. Maybe get to like 15g (unless EMC says lower she knows a bit better than me) and then go from there?


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## Emc (Nov 18, 2018)

is that 50g weighed before or after you added the water?

I agree with Ria; it's too much. You need to lower him gradually. For most hedgehogs, 8-10g is plenty - but some do fine on 10-15g. You really won't know until we get there; if he gains weight on 15g, drop again.


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## Brooke2Lancelot (Sep 9, 2019)

After I added the water. 

My mom says I shouldn’t worry, and that he’s just growing, but he’s a full adult Male, seeing as I had him for a year now. 
And I just think this weight gain is too much, and not stopping. 

There isn’t a chance that my moms right and I’ll go wrong by lessening the food, right? 

I’ll weigh again before I add the water and see how much it is then. I’ll try and stomach it down to 45g tonight, and see how it goes. I just think I’ll feel guilty if he runs out of food at night... feeling like I don’t feed him enough.


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## Emc (Nov 18, 2018)

Your mother wouldnt be right in this situation, no. A 1 year old hedgehog would not be growing at the rate Igor is. He is on a direct path for obesity if we do not correct his diet now. 

You wont be doing him wrong by reducing his food intake, nor will you be doing him wrong if he doesnt have 24/7 access to kibble. Rather, we will be doing him wrong by not helping him get back on track for a healthy weight. 

Weigh his food out dry. We'll drop his food down gradually, but I would personally recommend you do 40g instead of 45g, and then further decrease from there. We need to change his diet not too fast, but also not too slow - the bigger he gets, the harder it is going to be to get him to lose it... so, the quicker we get this under control, the better.


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## Brooke2Lancelot (Sep 9, 2019)

Ok! I weighed it out. It’s 33 grams of dry kibble.


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## Brooke2Lancelot (Sep 9, 2019)

Ok so I added water to the fifty and extracted kibble till it was 40. It’s now at forty. 

Should I do tomorrow’s batch 23 grams of dry kibble to get to 40 grams of wet kibble?


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## Brooke2Lancelot (Sep 9, 2019)

Can I continue with treats and insects like I use to or should I slow down on them too?


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

When I had the issues with Holly and had to reduce her food, I found out that as I decreased the food she actually ate less so she always left a bit of food in the bowl.
Igor might do the same thing. Some do this, the will eat almost all the food and if you decrease they decrease so they always a little bit of food. It seems weird but it happens!

Dont worry about decreasing the food, by doing it your helping him. He wont go hungry, from the sounds it right now he is over eating because he is given the chance. You take that away he wont get fat and he will stay a nice healthy hog.

33 to 23 is a 10g drop of food. I'm really not sure if thats too fast of a drop. 
What insects and treats and roughly how much are you doing daily of them?


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## Brooke2Lancelot (Sep 9, 2019)

Thank you Ria. That had also crossed my mind before, the eating in portion to what you’re giving them. I just didn’t think it was true. It’s strange to think they do that.

Treats are some Whiskas, one every second day, except on Wednesdays. On Wednesdays and sundays he gets a half of an Arcana freeze dried treat. 

Insects are one adult dubia roach every Sunday. I had to stop the mealworms because of the fly and I won’t be able to get more until we move end of next month.


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

Ny mum told me about it first, her rabbit did it, a lot of people don't realise that it actually happens, but I wanted to share it with you so you knew and worried less about decreasing food.

I would leave the insects as they are for now and the treats dont seem to be a huge amount so you could leave that as it too. Unless you feel its really having a big effect on his weight.


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## Emc (Nov 18, 2018)

I wouldn’t bother about how much the wet batch weighs. Just focus on the dry weight. So if his food weighs 33g prior to adding water, try 25g~ (dry weight). Weigh him over the next few days, and we’ll see how he goes. 

It’s going to be a long process. Keeping in mind that an average, healthy hedgehog only needs 8-10g of kibble, we have a while to get there - because if we drop his food intake too quickly, he can lose weight too fast while will cause more harm than food. 

Can you start feeding him more dubias, or are you restricted to just one a week?


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## Brooke2Lancelot (Sep 9, 2019)

I... can tryyyy feeding him some of the babies? 
But I am restricted to one adult dubia a week. But when we move, I’ll get a bigger crate to store the dubias in and then i can start buying more


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## Brooke2Lancelot (Sep 9, 2019)

Ok wait, scratch that, scratch everything I just said completely. The stupid bowl I was weighing Igor’s food on weighs 17grams. 

I didn’t know this, I thought it weighed less that a gram so it wouldn’t have made a difference. 

Now knowing this, Igor’s dry food count is 16 grams. 
And his wet food count is 33 grams. 

I was so stupid for not weighing the dumb bowl first. I’m so sorry.


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

It happens. So the food isnt really that bad!
Maybe reduce it down to 13g and see if that changes anything in a week?


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## Brooke2Lancelot (Sep 9, 2019)

ok so if my calculations are correct, I gave Igor 23 grams of food now, with the water. Which also means I minused 10 by the dry food, which leads to 6 grams of dry food. So I should add 7 grams of dried food to Igor’s food now?


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

A 10g drop might be a bit too quick so yea tonight go back and add the 7g extra to bring it back up so its only a 3g. Then reduce it by 2-3g from there. Its not as noticable that way. 

Reducing too fast can cause more issues than good.
I would aim to bring it down to 10g of dry (without the added water) and then take it from there


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## Brooke2Lancelot (Sep 9, 2019)

Alright. So I just finished adding the food. It’s now 13 grams of dry food with the water. 
Can I stay like this for a week or should I lessen it tomorrow by 1 gram already?


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## Emc (Nov 18, 2018)

Honestly, I am super relieved to hear that it was a mistake haha. It means we can get him back on track, and intervene a lost faster. Going from 30g to 8-10g (he may need even a little less than this; it entirely depends on the hedgehog, we wont know until we get there!) would have taken us forever, and he would have likely still gained weight in the process - so this is good news, don't feel stupid!

If his dry food is 16g, you can go ahead and drop to something like 12g. Keep an eye on his weight, i'd say weigh him daily for 10-12 days. If he's still gaining, don't be discouraged - again, keep in mind that 12g is still too much for most hedgehogs but it is important that we reduce gradually, or he will lose weight too quickly.


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## Brooke2Lancelot (Sep 9, 2019)

Thank you 😅
I’ll drop his food tonight by one gram, which will make it twelve. I’ll weigh him today and repeat for 12 days.


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## Brooke2Lancelot (Sep 9, 2019)

He didn’t even eat everything! I’m thankful to see where I went wrong. 
I admit I did add food according to how he ate. The less was left in his bowl in the morning, the more I added at night. 
I’m happy to know I can change it and I thank you both for your help through this process. 
I really want my hog happy.


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## Brooke2Lancelot (Sep 9, 2019)

Ok, so you said you don’t need to know the wet foods weight right? Only the dry kibble? The water won’t make a difference?


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## Brooke2Lancelot (Sep 9, 2019)

Sooooo he weighs 498grams tonight.


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## Brooke2Lancelot (Sep 9, 2019)

I also gave him two baby dubias and one adult dubia. I figured I can try and give him all the roaches before we move. Then after we moved I’ll go back to a schedule. Maybe, 3 adult dubias a week?


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

Yea just focus on the dried biscuit weight.
The roaches sounds like a good idea but maybe you could buy some adult and some medium and feed slightly more roaches?
So say 3 adults a week and like 3 medium so its 6 a week. They are pretty good insects, fairly low fat too so dont stress the fat on them. And it increases Igors insects too.


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## Brooke2Lancelot (Sep 9, 2019)

Ok yeah, I can do that. 

Igor didn’t know what to do with the baby roaches 😂. He didn’t see them at first. So he just at his food. I had to point to the roach babies for him to see.


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

Aww thats so funny of him. Maybe he will notice next time!
At least he ate them in the end haha.


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## Brooke2Lancelot (Sep 9, 2019)

Today he ate everything except two pieces of kibble.


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

I only give Holly 8g of biscuit now. She generally eats 6-7g of this but some days she will eat all 8g of the biscuit. When she eats all of it tends to be because she has been more active.


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## Brooke2Lancelot (Sep 9, 2019)

Could be possible for Igor too. Last night was really cold so I warmed up a bottle for him and covered the cage in blanket to make it warm, so it could be that he was more active cause it was warm


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## Brooke2Lancelot (Sep 9, 2019)

Ok, update. 
I weighed him. It’s still on 498grams, so atleast he didn’t pick up. 

And he immediately went for the dubia babies this time. Gosh, they learn so fast!


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## Brooke2Lancelot (Sep 9, 2019)

Update 
Weighed him. It’s day 3 of the diet. 
He still weighs 498 gram. So he didn’t pick up.


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

Yea its possible with all hogs, but most because of free feeding with loads of food dont really notice it as much. 

Its good its not going up! 
Would be nice to come down a little maybe, but its great that he hasn't gained anything!


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## Emc (Nov 18, 2018)

You wont notice him lose weight until he is eating the correct about of kibble for his energy requirements. I'd keep him on 12g for the two weeks, then after than drop to about 10g, two weeks then drop further to 8g if need be - keep weighing him, so we know how much food best suits him.


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## Brooke2Lancelot (Sep 9, 2019)

Update : 
He lost weight! He lost one gram! I can’t believe it to be honest. 😅 I thought it would take more


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## Brooke2Lancelot (Sep 9, 2019)

Is it normal for hedgehogs to gain 7 grams in one night? 
I just weighed Igor and he weighs 505 grams, that’s 7 grams more. And I weighed him yesterday. 
Usually he picks up 5 grams a week. Now it’s in one day. Should I be worried something’s wrong?


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## Emc (Nov 18, 2018)

Yeah, I was going to comment last night about not getting too excited too fast; 1g wouldnt be considered a weight loss, and is just normal weight fluctuation. Right now, he is still consuming excess kibble - so to be perfectly honest, I am expecting him to continually gain until he is fed an appropriate amount of kibble for his energy level. You can expect to see next to no progress until we can get him down to 6-10g of kibble (he'll be somewhere in the middle, i expect; many hogs will gain weight on 10g of kibble, he'll probably need closer to 6-8g).

How old is Igor again?


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## Brooke2Lancelot (Sep 9, 2019)

I’m not exactly sure of his age, seeing as he was a gift, but I had him for a year and 2 months. 

😅 yeahhhh noted. Got excited toquick, as usual.


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## Emc (Nov 18, 2018)

I asked because all of his weight gain recently is likely the result of his age. 

Meaning; you got away with feeding him so much for only so long because he was still growing. Now that he’s finished growing, he doesn’t need so many calories and now he’s storing them as fat - could also explain the weight gain in a shorter period to what you have observed in the past.


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## Brooke2Lancelot (Sep 9, 2019)

That makes a lot of sense actually. 

Oh and it’s been 14 days. I kept to 12 grams and he’s weighing 513 grams. Should I go to 11 grams now? Or 9?


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## Emc (Nov 18, 2018)

Go ahead and drop to around 9g or so. He should be fine, just remember to keep weighing him daily.


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## Brooke2Lancelot (Sep 9, 2019)

Ok, 9 grams for about 2 weeks again? I write down his weight and amount of food every day, so I know what happens


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## Emc (Nov 18, 2018)

Yep; we dont want to drop too much too fast. I'd do that for another two weeks and see where we are then.


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## Brooke2Lancelot (Sep 9, 2019)

Ok great, thank you!


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## Brooke2Lancelot (Sep 9, 2019)

Question, will it be possible to feed Igor more in the winter? Because of the cold? Or is it a bad idea?


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

They dont need more food in the winter, unless he is really active that he is now eating too little for his activity. I would just keep it the same all of the time.


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## Brooke2Lancelot (Sep 9, 2019)

Ok thank you!


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## Brooke2Lancelot (Sep 9, 2019)

It’s been twee weeks since I started giving him 9 grams of food. His weight started stabilising and isn’t changing much. He’s currently 515 grams.


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## Brooke2Lancelot (Sep 9, 2019)

Should I feed him less or stay at nine?


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

You could do less, see if it changes his weight lower if you want him to loose some before stabilising.


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## Brooke2Lancelot (Sep 9, 2019)

Do you think he should loose some before stabilising? Just as an opinion. 

I’ll send pics of him


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## Brooke2Lancelot (Sep 9, 2019)

Here are some pics. Tell me if I should take some form other angles too


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

Sse if you can get one that's like this pne of Holly. 
As you can see on Holly the extra fat on the limbs(top of leg) very easy at this angle - you could just check yourself and see if theres extra fat if you can't get a picture.

But from the top he looks fine, he could clearly ball up fully without that little nose! And the one of the side you have doesn't look like he is bad at all and could just be stabilised at this - check the extra fat on limbs first


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## Brooke2Lancelot (Sep 9, 2019)

Lmaooo I just tried taking a pic like that and it failed 🤣 he doesn’t show his front legs at all when he walks. He’s like, a floating hedgehog 😂


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

😂Oh. Of course some people find they stand like that when eating from a bowl.
Holly mostly does it when she picks up speed running!😂
Sometimes you can see it when they are half balled. But that's mostly when its really bad.


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## Brooke2Lancelot (Sep 9, 2019)

His food bowl is really low, so he doesn’t really need to stretch to get in. He’s rude 😂


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

Holly's is low too but still stands up like that to eat from it😂
Maybe try looking while he is running on his wheel? He must go up like that to run on the wheel.


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## Brooke2Lancelot (Sep 9, 2019)

He does, but as soon as I look at him, or come stand infront of the cage, or even walk past it, he stops 😂


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