# new hedge owner w/ questions



## v.bow (Nov 1, 2010)

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hi this is top, a guy =D i hope the pic worked. i got him about a week ago on the 23rd of october. he was born in july near my birthday actually =D

Ive been going through this forum in and out for the past month and still have some unanswered questions.

first he came home and first few days were really ok and fine ate his purina one which im weaning him off of with nutriscience. he would eat the nutriscience all week and it was fine, but suddenly 2 days ago he stopped and only picking out the purina one kibbles, so i took some of the purina one n turned it into a powder poured it ovcer the nutriscience hoping he will eat it. i would also like the mention the day before he stopped eatting i put a banana in his kibble dish and he was detered by it or something because he didnt each much that night.

oh and that night i also gave him a dose of revolution could that have made him strictly eat purina one? thats what the breeder was feeding him.

im wondering if it was the banana laying on top of the nutriscience could have made him not like nutriscience?

2nd question
what is considered squirming? his quills are down and hes just running all over my shirt n arm. like hes running away from me and today he bit me after a while trying to run away from me so i guess the running away from me meant he was annoyed, when i put him back into the cage he quickly ran back into his lil bucket to hide n sleep.

whats confusing me is that if i go slow i can touch his spines on his head and pet him and everything including his ears, but theres like a time limit until he starts trying to run away and dig into a big blanket i give him.

he has slept on my all week and its fine but he does this thing were hes like sniffing frantically which at first i thought he was just exploring but now i think hes just annoyed, its not the first time he bit me but the first time was because i tasted good and salty.

this time i made sure my hands were clean and he still licked my palms and after a while decided to run away and and after a good 10 minutes of trying to run away he bit me...

after he bit me i played with him a little longer hoping to show him biting won't automatically make me put him back into his cage

he also pops and huffs a lot now, now that hes used to his cage. when i first brought him home he wouldnt huff or pop, now i need to put my hand infront of him and let him see im coming and move to the side to pick up him or else he'll pop at me.

im assuming its the mites he has or puberty thats causing him to suddenly change personalities.

trying to understand when hes annoyed and when hes simply exploring, at this point i can't exactly tell. when hes good he will sit there sniff around and go to sleep on my hand.

WOW did i rant....hope everything makes sense. makes sense to me


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## Puffers315 (Apr 19, 2010)

They can be picker eaters, but if he was eating the nutriscience for a week before, then something has made him change his mind. I'm pondering if he didn't like the banana, and the banana was on the nutriscience, its possible he's associated the nutriscience with the banana and just won't touch it. Do you refresh the kibble every night? Kibble can go stale, so if its the same nutriscience that the banana was on, it might have the scent of the banana, thus he won't touch it, cause he doesn't like banana. You might have to try something else kibble wise, the link below is to the 'recommended' food list, might try something else.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=15

Hedgehogs fall into two type of generic personalities, Cuddlers & Explorers. A cuddler is one that will lounge on you, sleep on you, snuggle up to you. An Explorer wants to check everything out and be on the go, and they may very well ignore you in general.

It sounds like your guy is an explorer, I would guess the sniffing is part of that habit, usually if they get annoyed, they'll raise their quills up at you, along with huffing, hissing and popping. Is he sniffing or is he hissing. Hissing isn't like a cat, its this weird noise that almost sounds like a chainsaw or motorboat. Usually if they're hissing, again the quills will come up at you. Otherwise he's probably just sniffing around, they have poor eye sight so their nose tells them more than their eyes many times.

He might be annoyed if he's attempting to explore and you keep grabbing him and bringing him back to you, but again they usually will tell you by hissing, raising quills, huffing and popping.

As for the huffing and popping, if he's doing that when you go to get him our of the cage, its because they can be very territorial, especially when it comes to their cage. You just more or less ignore that, same as you've done with the biting. If you back down, they'll learn they can get you to back down by doing those things. Just remember there's really no way to disapline a hog, if he bites and holds on, just stay calm and talk to him, pulling back hard can damage and break teeth, and many times they might bite down harder. Blowing in their face isn't recommended either, sometimes it can make them stop, or just annoy them further.

One thing to keep in mind is that hedgehogs go through a phase called quilling, this is when they shed their baby quills for their adult ones. They quill a few times in the first year, and if he was born in july and is roughly 12 weeks, then he's probably quilling. This process can make them very grumpy, its a somewhat painful process having those new quills poking through their skin. Search around, you can give them an oatmeal bath to sooth their skin. It might be the reason for all of it, its hard to tell since he's only been with you a week and a few days.

Also keep in mind it can take weeks for them to get use to their new home, they're not a fan of change, but he sounds like in the end he'll be a very nice hedgehog.

On a side note, if he's sniffing loudly, keep an eye on his nose for being extra wet or having mucus coming out of it, its possible he might have caught an Upper Respitory Infection, signs are usually snot/mucus coming out of his nose, lots of nose licking which can make it hard to see if their nose is running, and possible breathing sounds. He's probably more sniffing his new world, but its better to be safe than sorry. If the pictures above are within the last day or so, his nose looks pretty normal at a glance. Its wet but not overly wet.

Unrelated make sure he's in a 73'F to 78'F temperature enviroment, and is on a light schedule. Both are to prevent a hibernation attempt. Lighting schedule is basically having a light on near his cage for 12 hours during the day, say 8am to 8pm. Don't depend on regular sunlight. You also don't need a special light.

(PS- A good example of "calm" versus "annoyed" hedgehogs is right in my signature, Loki on the left is calm, versus Hester on the right who is very annoyed, notice how Loki's quills are relaxed even in the ball, while Hester looks like a spiked ball).


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## v.bow (Nov 1, 2010)

he gets fresh kibbles every day, last night i did a test and filled his bowl with nutriscience and put 6 pieces of purina one in it. the purina one is all gone and one or 2 nutriscience were chumped on 

its weird about the cuddler explorer thing because for the week shes mainly sleeping on me and twice shes gone exploring but as soon as i hold him like a baby and give him a little cover he would go straight to sleep, like i said as soon as i put him back in the cage he goes straight to his hut and sleeps i think. many times he sits on my hand and stretches out and sleeps.

when hes exploring he doesn't huff or anything i just see him sniffing with his noise...now im not sure if its considered hissing, but to me it sounds like sniffing. his quills aren't up when hes exploring they are laid flat

the being annoyed about me picking him back up might actually be it. his spikes are never up but its frantically pushing my fingers opened n getting through and looking around, but as soon as he finds a dark spot he goes straight to sleep...

oh this is most likely relevent but today before he was frantically searching around, he was sleeping on me and i leaned forward to get my phone and the leaning woke him up and started the exploration frenzy

ive been bathing him with aveeno baby cream wash and rinsing with oatmeal bath. He does look like he has bare spots but there are no quills in the cage so i assume that its all at the breeders house.

got the temps right i believe the breeder kept them at 68f im keeping them at 71 and he seems comfortable 

i think i got the relaxed or annoyed spines down. it simply hurts to hold him in a ball if hes annoyed but after a few seconds they are all laid flat and smooth again

i was curious about the quilling, i mean if it was mites or the quilling i figured he would be grumpy the day i brought him home but he was pretty lovey dovey the first week ate a kibble from my hand...i would stick my finger when hes partly balled up and rub his stomach and feet and he would just open up and let me do it. now im a little afraid in case he bites me again

any other opinions or ideas would be great!

btw thanks for such a fast reply


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## PJM (May 7, 2010)

First of all - Top is a real cutie!
I would suggest bumping up the temp a few degrees. I know the breeder kept him low, but not all things breeders do is right. As Puffers said, the recommended temp is 73-78. So why get as close as you can to the danger line? If you bump it up a bit, then you have some wiggle-room.

As far as the running around goes - I'll tell you about my Zoey. The first week or so, Zoey would sit very still. We thought she was a cuddler. But now, I think she was just nervous in a new place. Then she ran around & we thought she was an explorer. Turns out that she gets really fidgetty when she has to go to the bathroom. So now I know to put her in the play area for a bit. Now she's turning back into more of a cuddler. But honestly, I think that timing has more to do with it for her. If I wake her up, she will cuddle & sleep on me. If I wait until she's awake to get her, then she's a ball of energy.
Basically, it will take some time to figure out what works for you guys.
If you don't do it already, you can try using a liner or blanket when you have him out.


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## v.bow (Nov 1, 2010)

o i take him out with my hands and then if he wants to explore i put him in a fleece blanket and he digs in it and just scurries around in it, but now im wondering if he really wants to explore now. i tried to put him in a dark box last night and he just snuggled into the corner and went to sleep.

huh the poo and pee thing makes sense, i dont notice him doing it after i put him back into the cage though. he always poos on his wheel and little corner i gave him and he does that while im sleeping usually 4am or so.

question about the food
so yesterday i put in nutriscience and topped it off with purina one. he ate all the purina. should i remove all nutriscience for now and hope he forgets the smell and taste and reintroduce nutriscience in a week or 2? 

or should he be treated like a fish in this case? and keep feeding nutriscience until he starts eating it? 

last night he chewed up one or two nutriscience and left it on the ground it looks like.

he drinks a lot of water(half of a small creme brulee bowl) and his poo is nice and solid


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## PJM (May 7, 2010)

They can be pretty stuborn. :lol: You have a few options...
You can take it back to the store for a refund (many will let you return it if they don't like it)
You can do what you said & put it to the side for a bit. (if you do that, You may want to try to incorporate another kibble instead)
You can put a bit of both in a container together for a while (few days, week) & see if that helps blend the smell.

I wish I could help more! So far my hedgies haven't met a kibble they didn't like. :lol:


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## v.bow (Nov 1, 2010)

ah thank you thank you lol and my mistake ive been calling the food by the wrong name its nutrience lol not nutriscience.

o i also listened and slowly bumping the temp to 74


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## Puffers315 (Apr 19, 2010)

Here, while eating dinner I went and found you some 'annoyed' and 'angry' hedgehogs off of youtube, its a great source for checking out hedgehog body language and sounds, just don't listen to the 'care' videos for the most part, a lot of people got care videos, with not so good information.





- This guy ain't too bad, though really ticked off.





- This is a euro wild hedgehog, but does the 'hiss' really well. Don't feed your hedgehog milk.





- This one shows a nice calm hedgie who gets annoyed a little at the end. I think this is a forum member's video, cause I feel like I"ve watched it, and I know we got a Wimbley around somewhere.

And that's all I came up with, because I end up going to other videos of cute hedgehog babies, heh. The first too are good examples of annoyed hedgehogs, and looking at that first one, you'll notice the quills are down, but he also does the leap-spin dance, especially if you check out "part 2".

And PJM is right about the temperature, I would just try and shoot for 73'F at the least, main signs you want to watch out for is sluggish, lethargic and wobbly movement which usually means they are too cold and could very well attempt hibernation. You can also check by feeling his stomach (if he allows you, heh), make sure his stomach is warm, legs are not cold. 75'F is concidered the 'safe' zone, in only super rare cases have there been a hedgehog who attempted hibernation, especially temperature sensitive ones.


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## v.bow (Nov 1, 2010)

OO THOSE YOUR TUBE VIDEOS ARE GREAT! thank you so much! 

i don't recall him making any of those sounds unless hes in a ball, but he stops pretty quickly

ok so i just finished a holding session with him and he was totally fine. maybe it was the temperature? or maybe because...well i dont know
i hand fed him the nutrience and he ate it up good, but looked like he had trouble with the initial bite, like it was to big for him. he would open his jaw wide open and crack it into little pieces.


well for 2 hours while i watched how i met your mother and texted on the phone he just laid splat on my hand and forearm and laid there to sleep.

he woke up a few times, fed him again and then he would splat legs and arms stretched get to sleep.

yay! lol i hope real babies are this easy.... >.<


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## PJM (May 7, 2010)

v.bow said:


> i hand fed him the nutrience and he ate it up good, but looked like he had trouble with the initial bite, like it was to big for him. he would open his jaw wide open and crack it into little pieces.


If you think he's having trouble with the kibble size, you could cut them, I use a pair of kitchen scissors.


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## ThePliny (Jun 3, 2010)

Definitely keep up the persistence with the food. I had no idea hedgies could be such stubborn, picky eaters until I started changing/adding treats to Pliny's diet. Some things he we staunchly refuse to eat, like not even a taste. He would do this for ages until he somehow ended up trying them, and then *bam* he became mad for them (wet cat food, cottage cheese, new cat foods etc). 
Sounds like Top is really getting used to you. Gotta love a good splatting session.


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## v.bow (Nov 1, 2010)

its weird. he eats the nutrience kibble if i hand feed it to him but if its in the bowl he doesn't touch it.

i took pjm's advice and tried cutting a tablespoon of nutrience kibble all in half hopefully he its it tonight

hmm also i was reading splatting meant he is to hot? now that ive made my room to about 74-76, hes been laying flat instead of a ball to sleep


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## Puffers315 (Apr 19, 2010)

Splatting is a double standard, if he's doing it in the cage, he's too hot, if he's doing it on you, its typically a sign of being content. If he is doing it in the cage, I guess try dialing down the heat a bit, he must enjoy the cooler temperatures. Each hog has their own zone, 73 to 78 is the recommended but you never know, the main sign to watch for if they are too cold is their stomach feeling cold, limbs feeling cold, and they're acting sluggish, slow, lethargic and wobbly. Its why most owners go with setting up a CHE heating system, because it can keep the cage at a steady temp.


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## v.bow (Nov 1, 2010)

an update on him. hes eating properly now =D i found out since i sleep at like 3am and the sun comes out at like 6 or 7 he only gets 4 hours at most to come out to eat. i closed my blinds and turn the lights on at 12pm and now he eats a lot more 7 grams of food, about 40 kibbles daily.

hmm when he is wide awake he still huffs and puffs a bit but if i pick him up out of the cage at night instead of morning he is totally fine with it.

and i got me a heating system shipped on the way...no more 76- 78 f rooms >.< its to bloody warm to sleep.


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## v.bow (Nov 1, 2010)

a quick update on him...lol i questioned the breeder a few times about him being a her but she kept telling me he was a he. 

i took him to the vet because he was a little sick and now hes on baytril for a week and seems to love it for some reason now when he sees the syringe he wants it bad...lol

well TOP and become BOM lol 
HE is indeed a SHE. 

should i let the breeder know?
and is baytril addictive or something? he sees the syringe and after one try he keeps wanting it.


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## PJM (May 7, 2010)

Sorry, but I don't know anything about Baytril

Glad SHE's doing better!


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