# Excessive drinking, potent urination sent.....



## chamzilla (Mar 18, 2009)

Hey all,

I am refering to the ? mark hedgehog that someone dropped off here a month or two ago. The 4 3 legged one stump one... for anyone who might remember.

The little guy drinks 4oz of water in one night. Pee's out obviously that much and seems like more!! His bedding is always needing to be changed TOTAL clean out every 2 days or it stinks up my room. None of the chips are odd colored after he has used them. Same color as my healthy hedgies chips (looked for blood or anything like that) His pee really smells strong... almost compairable to a mouse. Which I have heard they arn't supposed to. My other hedgehogs I've had/have are nothing like this guy. They drink small amounts of water a night, don't make a constant mess of there cages and I've owned (4 other hogs) Since he only has 3 feet and one stump I have opted to NOT put in a wheel in risking that it might aggrivate his stump. So he runs around his cage all night. He isn't over weight. Has good teeth. Is very aggressive... (but who knows if thats due to a human taking his foot) You can watch him boogy around the cage and everything he is alert. Comes to the side of the cage when your there. But waites for you to stick your finger close to the cage then he will bite the cage. (obviously mistreated by people) 

Other than that his appetite is healthy. Most of his poops are soft but normal colored. I have no idea what they were feeding him before and have never had a hedgehog get these symptoms. Also I do not have a vet that see's hedgehogs for medical problems. I had one that did the cancer surgerys on my last hedgehog other than that... this is obviously a lot different. 

Any suggestions? I thought maybe he was diabetic or something? I am keeping him well away from my other hog as she is perfectaly healthy. 

Hope to hear something 

Thanks


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## Hedgiepets (Aug 21, 2008)

I had a male that drank a lot and peed a lot. He was never over weight. We (vet and I) did suspect he had diabetes, but never tested him.


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## LizardGirl (Aug 25, 2008)

I would also suspect diabetes. Though I've never looked into it, I believe you can go to the drugstore and get a urine test for it. I'm not sure how accurate they are, but maybe you could try that.

Otherwise, I'd say just discuss it with your vet.


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## zoologist (Sep 2, 2008)

i'm going to say kidney disease. Cloud drank and peed a lot and he had kidney problems.


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## chamzilla (Mar 18, 2009)

Yeah I'm gunna call the vet and see what he has to say. my regular dog/cat vet looks after my hedgehogs. As this guy was dropped off here and is approx 3 - 4 years old. SO he is getting up there in the years.

Zoo.... I was looking at your signature.... of your donations for cloud.... Can you pm or email me please. I have a few questions on what your little guy has (had not sure if he is still with you) Hope to hear soon...

And I will look for that diabeties test strip thing


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## HedgeMom (Nov 7, 2008)

What do you mean by "chips"?


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## chamzilla (Mar 18, 2009)

Pine wood chips.... I call them chips... they are shavings. In Canada we refer to them as chips where I live. The old owner was using ceder chips and I know you ARE NOT supposed to be using those. I tried him on cage liners but there was just so much urine constantly.


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## HedgeMom (Nov 7, 2008)

There is information that pine chips also have harmful phenols,http://www.ratfanclub.org/litters.html same as cedar and are dangerous to animals whose noses are thisclose to them 24/7. Impaired renal function is one indication that might be happening. Aspen is safe if you must use wood shavings.


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## LizardGirl (Aug 25, 2008)

I consider kiln-dried pine safe to use, perhaps chamzilla is using that?


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## HedgeMom (Nov 7, 2008)

LizardGirl said:


> I consider kiln-dried pine safe to use, perhaps chamzilla is using that?


If you read the article, it's clear that kiln dried pine is not safe for mammals whose noses are close to the litter.


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## LizardGirl (Aug 25, 2008)

That particular article states that heat-treating wood shaving does not remove _all_ of the toxins. However, the amount is greatly reduced. Personally, I do not believe that just because there is a small raise in the level of liver enzymes that we should never use pine shavings. I run a decent sized mousery and have never had problems with kiln-dried pine. I know many breeders keep their pregnant females on shavings through weaning. Sometimes aspen, but oftentimes pine as well. I have yet to hear of any noticable negative effects on hedgehogs from using kiln-dried pine, that you do not see with aspen shavings.

That is just my opinion.


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## HedgeMom (Nov 7, 2008)

Sadly, mice and rats don't always live long enough to show the effects of the phenols on their liver. Hedgehogs live 2 to 3 times as long and are much more likely to show the effects. In addition, rats and mice are capable of climbing away from the shavings, hedgehogs are not.

In a species prone to cancers, every little bit helps. You're free to keep your mice on shavings that offgas phenols but I will always advocate against even kiln dried shavings for small mammals. I think they are worth the extra expense of Aspen, if you must use shavings. 

I can't imagine the possible damage to neonate lungs and livers when they have no choice but the breathe the phenols in.


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## chamzilla (Mar 18, 2009)

hi 

I belonged to this site a lot time ago under another name. I don't remember which username... but I was TOLD to use pine shavings if I were to be using shavings. So if pine shavings are not not good then what exactly should one be using?


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## HedgeMom (Nov 7, 2008)

Information changes. Aspen is a safe shaving. 

Some people will go to their graves supporting KD pine. I will not. I believe it's unsafe and a risk best not taken for a few cents savings. 

There are also textile liners and safe recycled paper litters to choose from.


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