# Litter Training the babies???



## SpiritWolves1 (Apr 5, 2012)

so i switched Shade and her babies onto liners.... the babies have littered the whole cage with turds. its nasty in there! ( in one night!!) and im starting to think the boys arent very bright ( Rhea is litter trained already! but the boys.. just aren't catching on.) any suggestions? i am placing all the poops into the litter box but they just dont get it!


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## moxieberry (Nov 30, 2011)

Are they weaned? If so, they shouldn't be with mama. You can leave the girl with the mama after being weaned, but as soon as they're weaned, boys have to be separated.

Babies will figure it out the same way that all hedgehogs do. Put a wheel in a tray, put the sleeping spot opposite the wheel/tray. They can have a wheel when they're weaned. If they aren't weaned yet, they shouldn't be on liners anyway.


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## SpiritWolves1 (Apr 5, 2012)

Lol no, I'm taking them out next week ( 5 weeks old yesterday) so at 6 weeks.

I had to switch them to liners as I ran out of carefresh. Momma hog has been taken from the cage.for an hour at a time, maybe longer because shes not weaning them, if they want to nurse she will let them every time ( every 3 ish hours) plus she runs on a wheel when she's out.


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

SpiritWolves1 said:


> I had to switch them to liners as I ran out of carefresh.


Running out of carefresh isn't a reason to switch them to liners early. Go buy more carefresh.


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## moxieberry (Nov 30, 2011)

Nancy said:


> Running out of carefresh isn't a reason to switch them to liners early. Go buy more carefresh.


This.


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## Sugargliderlove (May 27, 2012)

they should still be on carefresh. I honestly believe that you shouldn't be breeding hedgies but I will not get into that.


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## SpiritWolves1 (Apr 5, 2012)

-.- guys i cant drive! how in the world am i supposed to drive 2 hours to get carefresh when i cant drive?? 

and im not breeding hedgehogs!! i didnt mean for this to happen so dont even start on me with that. 

they are 5 weeks old, i was told by both my mentors that it would be fine so just dont. i hate the carefresh and could care less if i ever see it again. now plz, back to my original question! -.-


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## nikki (Aug 28, 2008)

Put them back on carefresh like everyone is saying. You should have made sure you had enough so you didn't run out, its your responsibilty to make sure they have every thing they need.


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## nikki (Aug 28, 2008)

If you have two mentors why not ask them about litter training? Not being able to drive is not an excuse.


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## SpiritWolves1 (Apr 5, 2012)

how is that not an excuse? if i cant get there i cant buy it. my dad cant drive atm ( broken shoulder and 3 broken ribs) and any way, we cant drive anywhere anyway because of the roads, a lady had to wait a hole day after having a stroke till they could get her to a hospital because the roads were too icey and the snow etc was too bad they couldnt fly her ( one of the girls in my class's grandma)

and i thought i did untill my sister thought her rats needed a crap load of it to hide in and used the rest of it. i did take the responsibility to get everything they need, someone else just decided that they would use it on me.

and maybe i want as many opinions as i can get? 2 is great but if i could have gotten more why not?


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## Sugargliderlove (May 27, 2012)

you say you didn't mean for them to breed. anyone with common sense knows when you put a male and female of any animal together there is a chance babies.


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## SpiritWolves1 (Apr 5, 2012)

excuse me? i did not put them together. not my fault, so please if you dont have anything helpful to contribute, please do not post on my question.


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## Katis228 (Aug 19, 2012)

I don't mean to interfere here and I'm not taking sides, but can we at least agree that what has been done has been done and it cannot be undone? (unless there's something about hedgie babies that I don't know, :lol: ) 

The important thing at this point is to help the hedgie babes grow up nice and healthy, and I think SpiritWolves is doing the right thing by seeking the expert opinions of those experienced members on this board. In my experience several opinions are always better than one just in case inconsistencies occur (ie: get the average of all the answers provided).


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## Sugargliderlove (May 27, 2012)

Like I said and everyone else has said they should still be on carefresh!


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## SpiritWolves1 (Apr 5, 2012)

Thank you Katis228, and i will say they are all healthy, happy and loved, they are all going to homes where they will be loved and taken care of, if you dont believe me ill give you the applications ( i would be removing names and locations though) and when i spend a ton of money taking them to the vet before they leave i will post the medical records.


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## SpiritWolves1 (Apr 5, 2012)

ya well they cant be at the moment now can they? so please, if you dont have anything to contribute but making me very angry, and not helping me at all please leave and dont comment again on my posts.


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## Sugargliderlove (May 27, 2012)

if you are not going to listen to what people have to say then why even ask.


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## SpiritWolves1 (Apr 5, 2012)

i didnt ask them about the carefresh, i asked about litter training. so please, leave my post.


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## nikki (Aug 28, 2008)

Spiritwolves - You posted in a open forum so you can't just tell someone to go away when you don't like what they say, that's not how an open forum works.


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## Kam (Nov 7, 2012)

Sorry if this is off topic but question from a newbie, why is carefresh important? Is it because It's what their used too and the change could bug them? 

@ spirit wolf, good luck.


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## nikki (Aug 28, 2008)

Its important because you shouldn't change anything in the cage, or even clean it, till the babies are weaned and away from the mom. It can be very dangerous and cause the mom to hurt the babies.


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## Kam (Nov 7, 2012)

Thank you Nikki, was just wondering if that was the issue, no touching or bugging for 5 weeks and then removing males is what is expected to my understanding. Though I'm still learning.

I can understand being worried about cleanliness but not for the risk of a injury or worse.

@ spirit wolf, you could try calling your local pet store and see if delivery is possible, if you have a vet who knows your situation you could try that route. Expect to pay for it but it can be done, even cabs will pick up and deliver if you can pay for it.


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## alexvdl (Dec 19, 2012)

So this is how I see it. Everyone agrees they should still be on carefresh, even SpiritWolves. But she doesn't HAVE ANY. In order to get some she'd have to find a way to drive an hour on some incredibly treacherous roads. She had enough, but for whatever reason, now she doesn't. So she switched them to liners. And now that's done. It can't be undone. Even if she somehow apparated some CareFresh, right at this instant, the babies would still have been switched to a liner. There would have still been a change. That's the hand that's been dealt and now SpiritWolves is trying to do the best she can, in the situation she has. And she's asking the people in the forum to help her. 

You might not like how she she's handled the situation, or the hoglets. You might think that SpiritWolves is irresponsible. None of that matters. What is, is. The best thing for those hoglets is to help SpiritWolves with the problems that she CAN do something about, instead of beating her down over things that can't be changed.


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## Katis228 (Aug 19, 2012)

Well stated, alexvdl.

Whatever beef anyone has with anybody else about a situation should not interfere with assisting someone who is asking for help. Especially when the health of the babies is at stake. (and....I didn't mean to make litter training sound like life or death, but you see what I'm trying to say here  )

Again, I'm not taking sides. It just seems to me that there is a lot of unneeded animosity here.


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## moxieberry (Nov 30, 2011)

When a mama is with babies, the substrate (in this case, Carefresh) is not something that is removed and changed out every few days. It stays in there. After a certain point you can remove a handful of dirty stuff here and there and replace it with new. If there isn't any fresh Carefresh to replace it with, then you just don't change it. Period. Until the babies are weaned. So the "out of it" excuse does not hold up, because there is always substrate in the bin/cage with them.

Yes, this got off track from the original question. If I, or another breeder, sees mention of something that puts babies at risk or is blatantly irresponsible, we're not going to keep it to ourselves because it's "off topic". If the OP doesn't like being called out on these things, her options are: 1. stop being careless, or 2. go elsewhere. Especially given the questionable circumstances of how this female ended up pregnant, I personally am not interested in coddling the OP.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

And to answer the litter training question....there's likely not much you can do. *shrug* So many people try so hard now to litter train their hedgehogs and everyone seems to think it can be done. It can't all the time. Many hedgehogs will not litter train and don't care about pooping in one spot. Once you have them moved into their own cages and on wheels, they may do a better job, since they'll potty on their wheels and you can put a box under that. But just because the girl and Shade were willing to be litter trained doesn't really mean the boys can be. Plenty of hedgehogs can't, and a lot of people don't keep that in mind. As far as I know, about the only thing you can do to try and encourage it is placing poops in the box, and you're doing that. Personally, I don't have any other methods to try and encourage it more.


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## Sugargliderlove (May 27, 2012)

Well said moxieberry and Lilysmommy. I will admit that if there is something I disagree with or got an opinion about I am going to say it especially in this case about the carefresh and the unexplained circumstances that the female got pregnant. I am very blunt about things, I know some people may not like it.


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## Mriao (Jan 20, 2013)

To be honest, Spiritwolves, I don't think you're mature enough to even be on these forums. If all you're going to do is refuse the advice that you're given, why are you posting? Behaving hostilely and getting angry at the forum members is only going to make them more reluctant to help you out in the future, so you're only digging yourself a deeper hole. I don't care about whether or not the babies are on liners when they should be on carefresh, that's done and over with and you've been lectured on it enough. However, there's a thing or two to be said about tact, such as the fact that you appear to lack it. Please, if you ask older and more experienced individuals for advice, and they are kind enough to give you what you asked for, you don't necessarily have to listen to them, but at the very least show them *respect*.


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## alexvdl (Dec 19, 2012)

Yeah. We got it. She did wrong. That's great. She shouldn't have switched them out. But after she acknowledges that she did wrong, there is no need for a bunch of adults to continue dogpiling a 15 year old girl. You told her she was wrong, she admitted (grudgingly) that she was wrong. I understand that the people commenting on hedgies in this thread are some of the most knowledgeable people on this board. In addition to being breeders, though, you're human beings. You have every right to continue to harangue SpiritWolves, but why? What does that gain you? Cui bono?


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## Mriao (Jan 20, 2013)

Hoping that wasn't directed toward me at all, because the only thing that truly peeves me about the whole ordeal is the fact that she's treating people with such blatant disrespect. It's not right, and the fact that she's "only 14" doesn't mean she can get away with it. I'm 14, too, but I know better than to snap at people that are trying to help me. I respect that you're just trying to be reasonable, Alexvdl, but people (especially those that she snapped at) have the right to be angry and to judge her for what she has done wrong. She was behaving immaturely toward other people on the forum, which was uncalled for.


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## moxieberry (Nov 30, 2011)

When it comes to breeding and babies, this forum can be fierce. Yes. Because when mistakes are made there, they can have very serious repercussions. The OP knew better, had been informed multiple times to only remove them from substrate after they are weaned - first when she had a pregnancy scare that did not result in babies, and then again when her male and female somehow managed to mate in front of her, resulting in these babies. I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't think I'm alone in saying that this mistake would be more forgivable if it wasn't just the most recent, and if it wasn't for the circumstances of the "accidental" breeding, which put me (and I'm sure other people, breeders especially) very much on guard with the OP. That she chose to respond rudely doesn't win her any points, either.

For anyone not familiar with the situation, it might look like we're being unnecessarily harsh. A mistake like this would be more gently corrected under different circumstances, if coming from someone who genuinely did not know, which is not the case here.


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## Sugargliderlove (May 27, 2012)

I agree with you 100% moxieberry. The thing I dont get is that how they could "accidentally" mate. It doesnt make sense to me and Im sure it dont to others as well.


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## SpiritWolves1 (Apr 5, 2012)

okay well, I responded rudely because people were talking to me and being rude about it. They have only been on a liner for like 4 days, and next Monday i would have to switch them anyway, so I honestly don't see the big deal here, ya I know they are supposed to stay on it, but hey, I ran out! Give me a break for once.

And the breeding was 100% accidental! I don't understand what you don't understand about that.

I had shade out trying to socialize her, and thought nothing of leaving her cage door open for like 1 hour, ya oliver was in the same room, but that was for his safety and well being ( he had a hibernation attempt so I made a makeshift cage and a makeshift lid for it, then stacked books onto the lid. He got out, and I didn't know he was in her cage when I put her back and went for a shower. It was 100% an accident, so let's not bring it up again.

If I don't start getting some respect, and some actual help ( there was some help given, thank you for that) I will leave this form as, this isn't helping my depression, or my animals, so if it's going to cause me this much mental stress to ask a simple question, and not get the help I need with these babies, I will leave and find somewhere that will help me, and that isn't turning out to be here. Sorry if you find this irresponsible, but I'm just about done being judged over the internet where you don't even know me, and in real life, I thi k it will be better for me and my animals if i need to find a better place for help.


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## Sugargliderlove (May 27, 2012)

we are stating our opinions and thoughts on the situation.


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## Immortalia (Jan 24, 2009)

Sorry if you feel that you are being misjudged. Sometimes, when these "oops" accidents happen multiple times, before the female manages to turn 1(which is the new mother cutoff. For those unfamiliar, it is dangerous for females to give birth after turning a year old as a new first time mother), some people just find it highly suspicious. I know you have been warned multiple times to always ensure that the male and female cages are well secured. Others who have had the same "multiple accidental oops" are also judged the same way. 

Also keep in mind that the hedgehog community is relatively small, and perhaps it may be good to take a step back and contemplate where the problem is. For you returned to this site because you had disagreements with the FB group as well. And so most people who have the most experience tend to stay away from your threads. 

I'm not saying you should leave, as this will probably be one of the best places to get advice. But just keep in mind that there may be something wrong if disagreements happen in multiple places with different people. 

Also keep in mind that when it comes to the well being of animals, people tend to be passionate. Yes, the babies are older, the chance of the mother killing them is lower(though there HAS been a recent case of a mother killing 4 week old baby), so you must understand where the bluntness is coming from. As Moxie said, even if you had no more carefresh, you still had carefresh inside the cage. All you had to do was to keep the carefresh in the cage for the remaining week(taking out daily handful), and wean the babies next week. That is where most of the frustration is coming from. The last thing people here want to read about is "omg, mom is freaking out and running around! Not sure if the babies will be safe!". 

Good luck with your animals.


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## hedgielover (Oct 30, 2008)

Spiritwolves I get that you felt people responded rudely to your question with judgements about how you care for your hedgehogs. From reading your posts I know that you really care for your animals I know that you try to do your best for them. I also know how hard it is to care for an exotic pet at your age. I had my first hedgehog at your age and the experience is much different as an independent adult with more funds at my disposal and complete control over the environment my hedgehog lives in. For what it's worth after the switch to fleece and after you stated you didn't have carefresh I did not see the point in people telling you to switch to back to carefresh anyway. However you cannot control or change their opinions or comments. All you can control is your reaction. Try to remember that part of growing up and being responsible is controlling your own response to other people and situations. If you have disagreements and tension with different groups of people in different social situations then I agree with Immortalia that you have to think about how your actions and reactions add to those situations. It's not as simple as blaming everyone for your emotional state and blaming them for the fact that you feel judged. In my experience people feel judged by others when they are already judging themselves. 

I hope that you don't leave the forum and you find a way to look back on your actions and realize what you could have done differently without feeling bad about yourself. It's one of the hardest things to do and takes lots of practice to judge yourself fairly and admit mistakes without hurting your self esteem. I'm glad that your hedgehog babies and Mom are ok even though you changed to liners a little early. I hope you have found a way to get all your cages secure so that you don't have anymore accidents. As for the purpose of the thread; the litter box training, I have never done it successfully. I've had all boy hedgehogs and they have all had different bathroom habits but mostly did not care about the litter box. My current hedgehog, Koloth, is a wall pooper but has chosen a few corners of the apartment that he regularly poops in (he gets a lot of free roam time) so I end up scrubbing poop off the baseboards I should probably rig up some sort of wall cover for those corners. In his cage Koloth doesn't care, sometimes it ends up in the litter box sometimes it doesn't. I probably could have tried harder to litter train them all but it just ended up being so much more work than just cleaning it up that I gave up.


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