# Does this warrant a vet visit?



## lehaley (Jun 25, 2011)

I know there are a million threads related to dry skin and quill loss. I'm just wondering if I can get some feedback because I'm not sure if Felix's symptoms indicate that a vet visit is necessary or not.

Last week I noticed that there were some skin flakes in his cage (looked like dandruff and I couldn't detect any sort of movement), and I have seen him scratching a bit (not constantly, but it's noticeable). I've read a lot about hedgehogs suffering from chronic dry skin, so I started putting flax seed oil on his kibble a few days ago. I haven't seen any more skin flakes on his liners, but the scratching doesn't seem to have decreased much and today I found 2 quills in his cage when I was cleaning. Felix is 6 months old according to his previous owner, and other than the flakes and the 2 lost quills, I haven't noticed any other problems. His appetite hasn't changed and his poop looks normal. 

At this point do any of these things suggest that I should take him to the vet? Felix is my first hedgie and maybe I'm being a paranoid mommy here, but I really wanted to check with people who have more experience.


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2011)

Sometimes scratching could indicate quilling but it also could be mites if possible a revolution treatment would be the safe bet. There are such things as a 6 month quilling though if you want look for yellowish orange gunk on the quill bulbs and skin over the next few days and scabs this is a usual symptom of mites


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## lehaley (Jun 25, 2011)

Thanks, I'll keep an eye out for both of those things. Felix doesn't have anything made of wood in his cage and the only thing his previous owner kept in the cage with him was a plastic igloo, but I don't want to rule mites out as a possibility. I actually wasn't aware that they could still quill at Felix's age. :shock:


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## hanhan27 (May 12, 2011)

IMO, 2 quills isn't much to be worried about... but I, too, am a paranoid hedgie mama and I find that it eases my mind when I notice something is "off" and go to the vet. It puts a dent in my pocketbook and the drive is long, but I always leave feeling better. Even if it seems silly, it doesn't hurt taking them in, ya know? 

My 5.5 month old hedgie has been quilling on and off for the past month or two. The vet ruled out almost everything that could cause quill loss other than actual quilling, and we've reached the conclusion that she is, in fact, quilling. *sigh* Some people report quilling when their hedgies are around a year old! :shock: Poor babies.

Have you read about Booster or Sunshine Factor? A lot of people have had success using these products for hedgies with dry skin.


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## lehaley (Jun 25, 2011)

Are Booster and Sunshine Factor better than the flax seed oil? I've seen them both mentioned quite a few times.


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## shawnwk1 (Jul 8, 2011)

i use vitamin e capsules, a couple drops in their food, and it has work like a charm for dry skin cleared it up in a couple days


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## hanhan27 (May 12, 2011)

My hedgie doesn't have really dry skin (it's usually just sort of dry lol) and I used flax seed oil on her food for a while. She started losing lots of quills and I decided to get Booster. The neat thing about Booster is that it doesn't just help dry skin, it has lots of other good stuff in it (including vitamin E and lots of other stuff that's good for organs and general health!). I haven't used SF, but I have been using Booster for my Mildred for about a month now and it's really great. It's a bit expensive, but you don't need to use much at a time so it lasts forever.

http://www.harrisonsbirdfoods.com/products/index.html

I had a small issue with my order, but Harrison's has wonderful customer service (sent me a 2nd bottle of Booster free of charge) and I am now a loyal customer. 

Edited to add: I can't really say if Booster or SF are "better" than flax seed oil. I didn't notice any difference in Milly's skin with flax seed oil, but have noticed a LOT of improvement with Booster and have heard only good things about Booster and SF.


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## lehaley (Jun 25, 2011)

Thanks for all the advice, guys. I'm going to try to rule out quilling and just dry skin before I take Felix to the vet, because I sort of agree with hanhan27 that 2 quills doesn't exactly scream emergency to me. Although I have a vet fund set aside for him and I would love to run to the vet right now just to make sure everything's ok, I know the money is better off being saved for an emergency or if I'm 100% sure everything is NOT ok (which I'm not quite yet). I'm going to keep an eye out for signs of mites and will probably pick up some Booster. 

TWCOGAR, I took a closer look at the quill bulbs of the quills I found in the cage and didn't see any yellowish orange gunky stuff. I didn't see anything really unusual on his skin either other than the fact that it still looks a little dry.


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## lehaley (Jun 25, 2011)

Hey everyone,

I'm resurrecting this thread because it seems as though Felix's quill loss has gotten a bit worse. I spot clean his cage and do a full clean/liner change every 3 days or so depending on how icky things are. (He's a bit of a stinky hog. His urine has a pretty distinctive odor.) Anyway, today was a full clean day. When I took Felix out to put him in his cage cleaning bin, I noticed a quill in his blankie. I shook out his liner over the cage bottom and noticed 5 more. I did a full clean of his cage on Saturday, so the 6 quills fell out in 2 days. 

I seem to have gotten his dry skin problems under control. He has been getting less frequent baths (excluding the necessary foot baths) and now gets flax seed oil on his food (which he absolutely DEVOURS). I haven't noticed anything crusty on his skin or on the quills that I have found. I'm a bit concerned about the quill loss, especially since it has increased, and from what I've read quill loss isn't exactly normal. 

I know a few people have mentioned that quilling is still possible in older hedgies, and I'm wondering how common it actually is for hedgies around Felix's age. According to his previous owner, he was around 6 months when I brought him home and would be 7 months now. I feel as though quilling might fit, as Felix has been extra grumpy lately. He seems more sensitive to being touched than he previously was, and he is much more reluctant to unball for me unless it's bath time or he's being bribed with food.

Any thoughts on this? Again, I'm starting to wonder if a vet visit is in order.


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## shawnwk1 (Jul 8, 2011)

i'd be more concerned with the smelly pee i think which could indicate he's not drinking enough water or has some kind of urinary tract infection or bladder infection. these are just two possibilities of course it could just be him or his food or something completely unrelated as well. have you been keeping track of his water consumption? same? more? less?


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## Immortalia (Jan 24, 2009)

Are there bald spots?

General rule of thumb, if there are no bald spots, you don't need to worry about it too much(assuming everything else is in order, skin is relatively normal).

Hedgehogs shed quills like people shed hair, like how dogs and cats shed. It's perfectly normal to find loose quills. It's just how our body works. 

(it's much more scary when you have a quilling baby, and you find up to 20+ quills per day, and yet still find no bald spots, and see perfectly new quills growing)


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## Guest (Oct 4, 2011)

shawnwk1 said:


> i'd be more concerned with the smelly pee i think which could indicate he's not drinking enough water or has some kind of urinary tract infection or bladder infection. these are just two possibilities of course it could just be him or his food or something completely unrelated as well. have you been keeping track of his water consumption? same? more? less?


This was discussed previously and decided it is more then likely just potent urine which according to a few of the experienced breeders here is something that occurs and since he's male highly probable as an alpha male has potent urine.

Keep a close eye the quill loss still isn't too great and it could be quilling its hard to say if its a medical issue with quill lose the signs of mites or other infection aren't always present until it gets bad.


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## lehaley (Jun 25, 2011)

shawnwk1 said:


> i'd be more concerned with the smelly pee i think which could indicate he's not drinking enough water or has some kind of urinary tract infection or bladder infection. these are just two possibilities of course it could just be him or his food or something completely unrelated as well. have you been keeping track of his water consumption? same? more? less?


Felix's smelly pee really isn't anything new, just one of his stinky quirks unfortunately. I posted a thread on here about it a little while back. I monitored his water intake for a few days and even put his water bottle back in the cage just to make sure that my switch from the bottle to the dish had completely taken. He was drinking plenty of water. Chances are it's his food, but he likes it too much to warrant me changing it. I was also told that sometimes male hedgehogs have stinky pee for absolutely no reason at all. I would assume it has something to do with hormone levels or something of that nature. (Guess it's a guy thing :lol


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## lehaley (Jun 25, 2011)

TWCOGAR said:


> This was discussed previously and decided it is more then likely just potent urine which according to a few of the experienced breeders here is something that occurs and since he's male highly probable as an alpha male has potent urine.
> 
> Keep a close eye the quill loss still isn't too great and it could be quilling its hard to say if its a medical issue with quill lose the signs of mites or other infection aren't always present until it gets bad.


Thanks! You're always so quick to reply when I get on here in a panic about something. I'm an overprotective hedgie mom. I will keep an eye on him. I think I'm going to start shaking out his liner on a daily basis so that I can have an idea of how many quills he's losing per day. I haven't seen any noticeable bald spots, but it sounds like these situations can go from mild to worse very quickly.


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## shawnwk1 (Jul 8, 2011)

i've always had males and have never had any that were extremely potent. maybe i'm just used to urine and feces smells from working animal control and always being around them my whole life (male animals my whole life, hedgies my whole adult life lol). i'm from a small farming community so not much bothers me when it comes to smells lol. whatever's going on though....well wishes


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## Hissy-Fit-Hazel (Jul 15, 2011)

intact males of most species have stronger urine scent....I notice a big diff if I have an intact male rescue dog around compared to altered ones. If you are used to it tho not likely one would notice the diff.


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

Some hedgehogs just have extra strong smelling urine and it is the hedgehog, not the sex. Some are just extra strong. Unless the strong smell is new, I wouldn't worry about it. My one with the strong urine is Gladys, a girl. 

Quill loss is also unique to the individual. Some never drop a quill while others can loose numerous per day and often they loose more seasonally, usually in the spring. 

If he isn't scratching, or getting thin or bald spots, I wouldn't worry unless he gets worse or starts scratching and thinning quills. 

If you are concerned, a vet visit can calm our fears.


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## Kalandra (Aug 25, 2008)

It definitely isn't a sex thing. Rose had very strong smelling urine as well. She drank lots but it still was very strong smelling. Thankfully she peed in only one spot of her cage, so I just kept a top liner in that area and swapped it out daily to keep her from having to breath in that smell.


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## Hedgieonboard (Nov 15, 2009)

My girl Sandra had super stinky pee when she was a baby but luckily she grew out of it and it has gotten either way better or I don't notice as much anymore lol You'd never know that my male Loken goes potty in his cage and it doesn't have any scent that I can detect.


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## lehaley (Jun 25, 2011)

For the most part I've gotten used to the stinky pee. I bought a cheap air purifier for next to his cage and it's been working wonders. It also seems to be helping with my horrible fall allergies, which is an awesome added bonus. 

Thanks for all the replies about the quill loss. As of right now it doesn't seem to be hugely significant. I haven't noticed him scratching a lot and there aren't any visible bald or thin spots. I feel like taking him to the vet would be a huge overreaction at this point, but will definitely be taking him in if anything changes.


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## Kalandra (Aug 25, 2008)

I had a couple go through a quilling closer to a year. I'd have to look at my old charts but I think it was closer to 10 months though.

One question that came to my mind. What is the humidity in your home right now? I know mine is going down at the moment as I have my furnace on and I haven't dragged the humidifier out of the closet yet. 

I've also had some that just would go through periods of time where they shed and grew in new quills for no apparent reason. Poptart was one of those. I had her for almost 3 years and every 3-4 months or so she would shed lots of quills and grow in new. Some times that shedding would only be 2 or 3 a night, others we found considerably more. She always had a nice thick quill coat, and hardly ever had dry skin. We never identified a problem with her, it was just who she was.


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## rivoli256 (Mar 1, 2009)

i have 5 hedgies & they hit each spot on the spectrum. for example...

1) my girl Hallie sheds constantly. several quills a night. she has a very thick quill coat. gets Booster. is healthy other than a bit of pudge. 

2) Henry tends to shed seasonally. he drops a few every week (1-4) but in the spring & fall, he sheds quite a lot & grows them right back. he also drops them if stressed. 

3) my guy Mac, who died recently, may have lost 5 or 6 in the 1.5 years i had him. he had a ton of quills & he was keeping them to himself. even when he got sick - no shedding. 

4) Sid, my Tweed who had HORRIBLE dry skin, loses an average number of quills - like Henry. no major anomalies one way or the other.

once i get a baseline & am sure they are healthy, i go by what is normal for the individual hog. if one of my non-shedders starts dumping quills like crazy, that perks my attention. & vice-versa - even though it is not a "bad" change, it is a change. & i notice.

the best thing to do is take notes. quick ones & see if a pattern emerges. especially over time. may be a bit of a pain but then you really know what is "normal" for Felix. 

keep us posted!


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