# Health deteriorating



## kiwidagger (Jan 27, 2010)

Puffy is my first hedgehog. I rescued her when she was about 6 months old and she's around 4 now. Spoiled rotten and went from being terrified and a constant ball of quills to eating worms from my hand and will scamper around on me.

I've noticed a major decline in her health and I believe it to be age or complications that can't be fixed by a vet but I still am curious what the death cycle is like for a hedgie.

For a while now I've noticed her breathing change. When she sleeps she would make a wheezing, squeaking sound off and on. Thought maybe it was a result of her bedding; pine that was kiln dried and screened but still dusty. She's been in it nearly the entire time I've had her until I recently changed her over to aspen which is much less dusty.

The last several weeks I noticed her kinda stumble when I'd put her back in her cage. Rear left leg. Now she barely can use it and the rest seem weaker as well.

In the last week or so (just realized this so I'm not sure) I think she lost her sight. She's completely blind now.

Lethargic when I get her out. Used to scamper off my lap and cuddle up next to me but was still alert and energetic. Now she just lays there and sleeps. Getting her up is also different, she's far slower in waking up I guess and doesn't uncurl like she used to. She's very reluctant to uncurl. But, she is still moving around in her cage at night to get on her wheel (not sure how much given her legs), eat, poop, etc.

I think she's also peeing out an ammonia smelling urine now too.

I figure she's just slowly dying given the plethora of symptoms which have mostly surfaced in the last week or two.

Losing her is killing me. I never thought this balls of scared quills would mean so much to me, especially given she could care less and would rather be left alone :lol:


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## Guest (Sep 22, 2011)

I don't have the experience of an older age hedgehog yet, however I know many people here have.

She could have breathing issues if she lived on kiln-dried pine her entire life and it might be something a vet can help with.

The weakness I know as they get older they are more sensitive to temp and might need it hotter so a slight increase may be helpful.

How is her food and water intake? I know when a hedgehog gets older they can have trouble eating their food and may need a soft food diet and if she is having trouble drinking syringe feeding might help jump start her and see if she gets back to doing it more on her own.

How is her weight is she losing weight?


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## kiwidagger (Jan 27, 2010)

I'd be surprised if a vet could have a fix for lung issues. If it's dust related I'm sure there's no way to get it out if there's a build up or anything of that nature.

She seems to be eating and drinking fine though I do notice she seems to have a drier nose. She actually had issues eating mealworms last night and today wouldn't even take them... when does that ever happen with a hedgehog?

She just seems like she's rapidly declined in the last week or so. It's really not much different than when my mother passed. You just knew. The signs are there and she definitely isn't the same hedgehog she was a week ago or even a few days ago. Her breathing is also very shallow and seems spread out. She'll perk up for a few seconds then is just spent. You can see the lethargy in her eyes.


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## Guest (Sep 23, 2011)

kiwidagger said:


> I'd be surprised if a vet could have a fix for lung issues. If it's dust related I'm sure there's no way to get it out if there's a build up or anything of that nature.
> 
> She seems to be eating and drinking fine though I do notice she seems to have a drier nose. She actually had issues eating mealworms last night and today wouldn't even take them... when does that ever happen with a hedgehog?
> 
> She just seems like she's rapidly declined in the last week or so. It's really not much different than when my mother passed. You just knew. The signs are there and she definitely isn't the same hedgehog she was a week ago or even a few days ago. Her breathing is also very shallow and seems spread out. She'll perk up for a few seconds then is just spent. You can see the lethargy in her eyes.


Like I said I'm no expert on older hedgehog but those are all symptoms of sickness not just old age sometimes. Lethargy could be old age and it could be something treatable,


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## kiwidagger (Jan 27, 2010)

I hear you. I just don't want to have her put through a bunch of tests and what not if it's just her time. She hates the vet for sure and they have to knock her out which has it's risks in and of itself and if she's already weak I'd rather enjoy what time I have left vs cutting it short via the vet. This is the thing that sucks because she's getting up there so do I spend a bunch only to be told "she's old and failing or this might work" or ride it out and let nature run it's course. That's why I'm hoping folks who've had them for a while and know the signs can give some feedback. It doesn't help this is a horrible week to get her to the vet.

I do appreciate the feedback though, really.


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## Kalandra (Aug 25, 2008)

Have you taken her in to have her checked out by a veterinarian? How has her weight been? Steady? Slow decline? Rapid decline? Urine could smell stronger if she isn't drinking enough water lately.

Weight loss, lethargy, weakness, appetite changes, difficulty breathing can be signs of cancer. Have you felt around on her for any lumps? In particular in her neck?

One particulate cancer that comes to mind is lymphoma. Lymphoma is a cancer but it often reacts to prednisone and you can get a better quality of life for longer.

Maui was one of mine that had lymphoma. We noticed a very gradual (1 gram/day) weight loss from her, she became less active, her appetite changed, and she started to wheeze a little and a lymph node in her throat swelled up. We took a fine needle aspirate from the lump to verify the nature of the swelling and the pathology confirmed she had lymphosarcoma. She lived for a good long time and had a great quality life during that time by taking chemo doses of prednisone.

Offer her some soft kibble, and kibble in her bed and move her water dish closer to her bed if you haven't already.

I'd take her into a hedgehog qualified vet and have her checked out. Ask if cancer is possible and if prednisone or some other medication can give her a bit more quality time. She may be very sick, but it is quite possible that there is something a vet can give her to make the time she has left better.


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## Hissy-Fit-Hazel (Jul 15, 2011)

I've had a lot of pets get old (not a hedgie yet tho) and near their end of life just when I figured it would be all down hill....my vet has always seemed to have some magic that gave them yet another period of good quality time. Often that doesn't mean invasive tests (I personally disagree with & feel intrusive for them when you know they are old...not a lot you can do for old lol) 

But sometimes the vet will suggest...yes a round of pred, perhaps a round of antibiotics, some arthritic meds and the pet looking so old suddenly is all skippy again :lol: The last dog I had to let go lived nearly 3 years after we figured he was lucky if he had another 6 mths! each time I called in for a med refill my vet was like SERIOUSLY he's not there yet? :lol: 

Maybe a vet visit to chat with the vet about concerns and what you might be able to do without being invasive or stressing her would at least give you some ideas.


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## Hoshi (Sep 8, 2011)

If you take her to a vet, there is a good chance you could find something that you could do. Also, the vet will ASK before doing anything invasive and go over the possibilities and what they will cost.

I think it will be reassuring for you to go in and know what's going on.

Plus, if you're set for her to die anyway (mentally) then perhaps the risk of anesthesia is worth it. I really really don't mean to be callous in anyway, but I would prefer to -know- what my options are and what I was getting into and what I might be able to do about it.


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

Ditto the vet recommendation. Although 4 is elderly, there are many hedgehogs that go on to 5 and 6 and even older. 

I would offer her a heating pad under her bed area. Oldies frequently need more heat and some of her symptoms might be temperature related rather than age. 

Is she on soft food? If not, dampening her kibble would be a good idea and you could also start syringe feeding her either once a day, or every second day, just to supplement what she eats on her own. I've had many oldies that I syringe fed once a day for the last months, and year of their life and it helped keep them going. 

Stronger, ammonia smelling urine may be something as minor as she is holding it longer or not drinking enough, but it might also be a urinary track infection which would also account for some of her other symptoms. 

Without her seeing a vet, you don't know if this is her life winding down, cancer, or if she has something curable.


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## kiwidagger (Jan 27, 2010)

I'm so glad all of you talked some sense into me. I'm such an idiot. We're waiting to hear from the vet. They're doing bloodwork and x-rays.


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## LarryT (May 12, 2009)

kiwidagger said:


> We're waiting to hear from the vet. They're doing bloodwork and x-rays.


That's great news, fingers and toes crossed they can do something to help.


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## Kalandra (Aug 25, 2008)

Keep us updated. I'd love to hear what you vet thinks is going on with your little one.


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## kiwidagger (Jan 27, 2010)

It's a mystery. Blood work came back fine. X-ray only showed an excess of gas in her GI tract. Best she can figure with the tests she did and had me do since I can handle her best is a bacterial infection. She did lose 70 (grams I think) from her last trip in. 

So now she will get antibiotics and be hand fed and watered. She goes back in a week for a weight check, sooner if things continue to decline.

They said she's just a very sick Hedgie and obviously they can't ask what hurts to really figure it out.

Thanks again everyone for smacking some sense into me. I had been coming to the realization that she was getting older so I ran with what I had been thinking, she could die from old age at anytime. Never again.


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## Kalandra (Aug 25, 2008)

I will keep my fingers crossed here that the antibiotics help. I'm very happy that you posted and that you took her in. Now to try to get her better. Lots of healing glow being sent her way.


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## Hissy-Fit-Hazel (Jul 15, 2011)

well that's good news...I always expect something to come back out of sorts with my old pets  Hopefully the antibiotics will give her a bit of zip back. Healing thoughts coming your way!


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## shetland (Sep 2, 2008)

Its always comforting to see responses from Nancy ("The Boss") and Kalandra. Prayers for your little one.


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## kiwidagger (Jan 27, 2010)

Here's a pic of my sick little girl.


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## Guest (Sep 24, 2011)

So Cute >.<


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## Hedgieonboard (Nov 15, 2009)

awww she's precious, hope she feels better soon


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## Quinn (Apr 24, 2011)

Awww. cute pic. I hope the antibiotics work and she gets better soon. Let us know.


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

She is adorable.


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## Rainy (Jul 27, 2011)

Oh, give her hedgie hugs from me! She looks so precious when she's sleeping. She'll probably want to sleep more to help her feel better.


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## kiwidagger (Jan 27, 2010)

Are hedgies normally weighed in grams? She weighed at 288.


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## Guest (Sep 25, 2011)

Yep Wow she's a small hedgie is her body frame a )( or a ()? Some are that small though

Most people here have a kitchen or postal scale and weigh their hedgies daily in the morning and record their weight


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## Kalandra (Aug 25, 2008)

Yes we typically weigh our little ones in grams. They are small animals and there are 28 grams per oz, so you can see how 1 oz difference can be a huge weight change.

At 288 she is a tiny girl.


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## kiwidagger (Jan 27, 2010)

She's like her dad, a lean mean fighting machine. It doesn't hurt that she tears up her wheel, at least before this hit her. When I see the poor hedgehogs at the pet store it amazes me how fat they are but they have crap food and no wheel. I hate pet stores!
Her breathing seems better, she's taking chicken baby food really well, and it seems like she's reacting to motion via vision. She's still very weak and tired though. She's been through **** this week and at the vet. She needs some hygiene attention but that can wait till she recovers.


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## Guest (Sep 25, 2011)

kiwidagger said:


> She's like her dad, a lean mean fighting machine. It doesn't hurt that she tears up her wheel, at least before this hit her. When I see the poor hedgehogs at the pet store it amazes me how fat they are but they have crap food and no wheel. I hate pet stores!
> Her breathing seems better, she's taking chicken baby food really well, and it seems like she's reacting to motion via vision. She's still very weak and tired though. She's been through **** this week and at the vet. She needs some hygiene attention but that can wait till she recovers.


Oh they vary quiet a bit even with a health running and good home some hedgies can be very big at 800 grams or more and not be obese their body sizes can vary.

If she's a runner she might be more like || then (), as long as she isn't sporting an )( hourglass she isn't under her body weight normally


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## Kalandra (Aug 25, 2008)

It sounds like you are starting to see some improvement already. Baby steps, but better breathing and some interest in food are good first steps. Keep offering her food, and put some in her bed with her. You may see her stool start to change. If you are syringe feeding her, add some acidolphilus into the mix and syringe it to her, give it several hours after her antibiotics though, else the antibiotics will kill off the acidolphilus and defeat any benefits it will give to her.

She's been in my thoughts a lot since your last post, so please keep updating. BTW that image of her is adorable.


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## kiwidagger (Jan 27, 2010)

She actually lost 23 grams from her last healthy weigh in. Her record is 286 1/10, 311 6/11, 288 Friday. Her weight this morning was 277. She's starting to look like an anorexic actress. She is so thin in her haunches now. 
Earlier today she was more active in my lap. Still weak and she definitely is blind. Don't know if she sees light from dark though but she has reacted to visual stimuli (maybe hearing or whiskers). 
I'm having to hand feed her 6 times a day. She'll only take 3-4ml at a time plus water. She did get up last night and at least nose around her food dish. Praying she starts eating on her own again. She's only pooping a little though and it's drier and blackish green. She did pee in my lap earlier and the ammonia smell is gone.


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## Guest (Sep 25, 2011)

kiwidagger said:


> She actually lost 23 grams from her last healthy weigh in. Her record is 286 1/10, 311 6/11, 288 Friday.  Her weight this morning was 277. She's starting to look like an anorexic actress. She is so thin in her haunches now.
> Earlier today she was more active in my lap. Still weak and she definitely is blind. Don't know if she sees light from dark though but she has reacted to visual stimuli (maybe hearing or whiskers).
> I'm having to hand feed her 6 times a day. She'll only take 3-4ml at a time plus water. She did get up last night and at least nose around her food dish. Praying she starts eating on her own again. She's only pooping a little though and it's drier and blackish green. She did pee in my lap earlier and the ammonia smell is gone.


The poop is likely because of the meds and yes hopefully she'll take to her food soon, I know some people put some electrolyte things and do booster for help to sick hedgies as well 

Glad to hear she is still holding strong


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## kiwidagger (Jan 27, 2010)

It kills me to say this but she's going to be put down tomorrow. I watched her after she got up to do her normal thing and she can barely walk. She continues to lose weight and she was continually flopping and falling in her cage. She can't feed or drink and I won't have her suffer. This really really sucks


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## Hoshi (Sep 8, 2011)

I'm so sorry to hear this. My thoughts are with you and your little girl. I know this is a difficult time for you... Please remember that you are helping to end her suffering and now she won't ever be in pain again.


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## Kalandra (Aug 25, 2008)

I'm sorry to hear she is declining. I do want to ask 1 question though, is she getting plenty of fluids? Dehydration can weaken them to the point that they cannot walk and can cause a sudden drop in weight. To combat, the vet can give her a sub-q of fluids. And if you are comfortable you can ask him to show you how to do it and take a supply of needles/syringes and fluids home to do as well.

You obviously can see her and know her best and will do the right thing for her. Sometimes letting them go can be the hardest but kindest thing we can ever do for them.


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## Rainy (Jul 27, 2011)

Oh, I'm so sorry. That's one of the hardest things to do. Please keep us posted with how you are doing. HUGS.


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## kiwidagger (Jan 27, 2010)

Thanks for the advice and prayers. We had to let her go this morning. She was 268 when I got her out. Her little body just didn't have it anymore and she was suffering but we gave it a shot. The vet knew she didn't really stand a chance but at least I got a lot more time in with her over the weekend. She was the best little prickly family member.

Mark


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## kiwidagger (Jan 27, 2010)

Kalandra said:


> I'm sorry to hear she is declining. I do want to ask 1 question though, is she getting plenty of fluids? Dehydration can weaken them to the point that they cannot walk and can cause a sudden drop in weight. To combat, the vet can give her a sub-q of fluids. And if you are comfortable you can ask him to show you how to do it and take a supply of needles/syringes and fluids home to do as well.
> 
> You obviously can see her and know her best and will do the right thing for her. Sometimes letting them go can be the hardest but kindest thing we can ever do for them.


She was getting fluids in her liquefied diet and straight up. Every 2-3 hours she got food and water. I honestly think her little body was just shutting down. Watching her try to move in her cage last night was gut wrenching. I would've put her down then if I could.

She had a good and spoiled life for a rescue. She came from a teenage girl who neglected her. When I got her she was 6 months old and terrified. She would stay curled up in a ball every night when I got her out. Over time she'd uncurl in my hands, take worms from me, and curl up next to me every night. She never stopped being jumpy but she came a long way from that first night. She was a spoiled, pampered, cute little thing.


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## pearlthehedgie (Feb 15, 2011)

So sorry for your loss. You did all you could...


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

I'm sorry she didn't make it but you took her to the vet and gave her the best chance possible. She was a beautiful girl.

Hugs


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## Rainy (Jul 27, 2011)

I'm so sorry about your girl. You gave her a very nice life and should be proud of that. Bless you and your family as you cope with the loss of that beautiful girl.


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## PJM (May 7, 2010)

I'm so sorry.


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## kiwidagger (Jan 27, 2010)

Thanks everyone. We're doing better today though I will admit this grown man was a blubbering mess at times yesterday.

October 8th we'll be sitting down with a breeder to find our new little girl or boy. We have little Cisco on hold (see link) but we'll have to see how his little personality is. He is a adorable as my wife would say, with his little mis-matched ears. http://www.critterconnection.cc/availablehh.php?Status=2 I just can't imagine not having a little hedgie at home


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## Torston (Aug 28, 2011)

I'm sorry for your loss. Its hard to make the choice to let them go, but it also hurts to see them hurt. Your potential new boy is adorable. He looks like my Bosley-monster, but with his own set of wellie boots! I hope he or another lucky hedgie will find a new place in your family.


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