# light blood everywhere.



## Juicebox (Mar 22, 2009)

I woke up this morning and there was like, pawprints of blood lightly traced all over Juicebox's liner. I havent bought her a wheel yet so there is no wheel in there that she could've hurt herself on. I checked all the objects in her cage and nothing had blood on it. Could this be her period? Or maybe she hurt one of her nails with a loose string on her liner? Helppp. Oh the blood stopped by the time I had woken up by the way. And it was VERY light, like it dosent even look like blood.


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## hedgieluver (Feb 18, 2009)

hedgehogs arent like us, they only ovulate,when directly in the prescence of a male, it might be a loose string, check her feet out, make sure all of her nails are there, none damaged, no cuts on her paws, just check and make sure u might have not thot of.hope juicebox is okay


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

If you see nothing obvious where the blood has come from and given the fact that she had babies not long ago, a vet visit is in order to ensure there is no uterine infection or retained fetus.


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## dorasdaddy (Dec 23, 2008)

Be sure and check all of her legs immediately to make sure there isnt a loose string or hair wrapped around one of them cutting into the skin. There are reports of this all over the place and if the injury is real bad and left for too long it can lead to amputation. 

By the way, how did her vet visit go Friday?


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## Juicebox (Mar 22, 2009)

Hedgieluver thanks. Ill make sure to check again. And Nancy, Im working on getting her to a vet. Thing is, the one my breeder recommended me to is only open on Tuesdays and Thursdays and when I called in last Thursday he was already gone. But I will make sure to get get to a vet asap. Also do you know if her having had babies has any effect on this? It was about 2 weeks ago. I wouldve thought what ever else had to have come out wouldve came out already no?


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## dorasdaddy (Dec 23, 2008)

I thought you had said before that you had an appointment for this past Friday...HMMM?


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## Juicebox (Mar 22, 2009)

Lol I did but I had to cancel it because my mom said we had no money. -_- She told me to ask the breeder for a cheaper one he recommended more and he told me Dr. Goldsmith up by dadeland mall. So im gonna see if I can take her on Tuesday. Also, I checked her all around and I have NOO idea from where that blood is coming. Im gonna give her a bath later on tonight and wash her paws really good to see if I missed something. Thanks for all the advice everyone.


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## dorasdaddy (Dec 23, 2008)

Juicebox said:


> Lol I did but I had to cancel it because my mom said we had no money. -_- She told me to ask the breeder for a cheaper one he recommended more and he told me Dr. Goldsmith up by dadeland mall. So im gonna see if I can take her on Tuesday. Also, I checked her all around and I have NOO idea from where that blood is coming. Im gonna give her a bath later on tonight and wash her paws really good to see if I missed something. Thanks for all the advice everyone.


Once again, this is why someone without a job (be they a minor or not) should NOT own a pet that can be costly in upkeep....maybe you should consider a Beta as a pet until you get a job of your own so you can properly take care of these animals.....and to quote Reapers sig "Dont Worry about the cost of a vet, taxidermists are cheaper."


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## Aleshea (Feb 13, 2009)

dorasdaddy said:


> Once again, this is why someone without a job (be they a minor or not) should NOT own a pet that can be costly in upkeep....maybe you should consider a Beta as a pet until you get a job of your own so you can properly take care of these animals.....and to quote Reapers sig "Dont Worry about the cost of a vet, taxidermists are cheaper."


I agree you She should at least know that blood is bad.


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## Immortalia (Jan 24, 2009)

Ok, so...Let me get this straight, starting from the very beginning...

1)Your hedgehog had a failed birth, and ate both of her babies. http://www.hedgehogcentral.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1965&st=0&sk=t&sd=a
This to me, is a big issue of concern. As many breeders have LOST their mothers due to failed birth. Now...Not trying to steal the thread, as it does somewhat relate to everything... I have a question for all the experienced breeders, as I too would love to know the experience that actual breeders have had and how they would handle the situation.

If your hedgehogs had a failed birth(still birth, ate babies, etc etc) would you find that a reason to be concerned and take your hedgehog to the vet as soon as possible?

2) Your hedgehog has discharge coming from her eyes http://www.hedgehogcentral.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2056&p=16493#p16493
Everyone told you that you should take her to the vet...In which you replied:


Juicebox said:


> I made an appointment for a checkup for juicebox on friiidaaaay.
> oh and it is at an EXOTIC VETERINARIAN. One of the ones on the list on this very site.


From there, we also get:


azyrios said:


> "11. My hedgie has a runny nose and/or discharge from the eyes: Your hedgie may have an upper respiratory infection. These are quite easily treated by a vet, but may prove fatal if untreated."


3)You have now found blood. Again, vet? What happened to the vet appointment? 
We're hit with this:


Juicebox said:


> Lol I did but I had to cancel it because my mom said we had no money. -_-


However from here: http://www.hedgehogcentral.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1953&p=15906#p15906
We got:


Juicebox said:


> Money isnt an issue, convincing my mom is. Which is not a problem.


So....Which is it?

You have a hedgehog that is in DIRE need to see a vet, and yet you keep refusing to treat her like your beloved pet and keep brushing injuries off one after the other. How long before you realize that....she needs to see a vet before it's too late? Please don't wait till she's knocking on death's door before you realize that a professional is needed.

Your mother and yourself need to be on the same page. Mine ALWAYS helps foot my bills for my animals if I ever need her help. Doesn't matter how much, she'll be there to help.


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## nikki (Aug 28, 2008)

I know when I was at home, if any of my pets were sick my Mom had no problem taking them to the vet. She even took a taxi into town to take my hamster in because it had hurt its leg, on a Sunday...so taxi fare, after hour call-in, x-rays...etc...no complaints from her because she agreed that if we take in an animal its our responsibility to take care of it properly...regardless of the cost.


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## Juicebox (Mar 22, 2009)

I cant really say anything about the posts before this because yeah its all true and whatever. And im not an idiot alesha stop disrespecting -_-. I really did call the vets but theres no excuses for all the things im saying that contradict each other. SORRY -_-. Anyways, Im gonna show my mom what I found on juicebox and defffff. were going to the vet on tuesday. Im calling tomorrow to make an appointment. So, like I said earlier, that I was gonna give Juicebox a bath to see if I could find something hidden that I didnt see before. Well, I picked her up and flipped her over and like right next to her leg like, underneath it, is like kinda like a ringworm type of thing but its all red and like if there was blood there but its not leaking. I washed it really good and tried to get a better look at it but Juicebox just wont let me touch it and dosent wanna be on her back. I got a few pictures but Im having complications getting them online because I dont know where the USB cord is.So my sister is using the SD card on her computer to get the pictures up. Ill get those up on here once I get them.


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## Immortalia (Jan 24, 2009)

In all honesty, don't worry about posting the pictures up. Worry about getting your girl to the vet, especially due to previous complications in her life. 

Post the pictures after you've been to the vet, and let us all know what it is instead. Then we can ALL learn something.


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## Juicebox (Mar 22, 2009)

Will do. Appointment tomorrow at 3pm.


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## Juicebox (Mar 22, 2009)

Okay so, the vet checked all her stomach and said there was nothing in there that any placenta or whatever that could be in there would be cleared out by the body itself. He checked the wounds she had and had no idea what it was from until, he flipped her over and noticed she has MANGE. -_- He said she probably scratched herself there trying to stop the itching. He injected her with medication and I have to go back in two weeks for the final dose. 106$ in total.


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## hedgieluver (Feb 18, 2009)

good u found out what is wrong  but then not wrong that sumi n is rong :|


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## Juicebox (Mar 22, 2009)

Yeah. Is Mange and Mites the same thing? Im scared he couldve injected ivermectin. He said i could either do the oral treatment or the injection. And he never told me what it was he only said it was something used for cows. He used a small amount. Oh and i found out juicebox's weight. Shes kinda fat.  318g.


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

If it was injection then it was ivermectin. Topical ivermectin is safer but Revolution is the safest. The next time I would ask for a topical treatment. 

318g is small so unless she is a very tiny boned hedgehog she isn't fat.


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## Juicebox (Mar 22, 2009)

Oh okay. Does it matter if I do one dose of ivermectin and the next time do revolution? And about her weight, he said she was kinda fat. That I should control how many mealworms I give her and that cat food is VERY high in fat and protein and blah blah and that I should feed her very little food.


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## zoologist (Sep 2, 2008)

Ivermectin needs to be done for three weeks, consecutive. next time just make sure its topical, and not an injection.

mange is the same as mites. give her oatmeal baths to help soothe her skin. If she has sarcoptic mange, be careful. that can be transfered to humans.


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## azyrios (Feb 2, 2009)

There are two types of mange, the main one that shows up in hedgehogs is Sarcoptic.

As posted under "feeding mealworms"



azyrios said:


> Mange on the other hand is a form of mites that imbeds itself in the animals skin or hair follicals and will cause the hedgehog to lose quills or fur. Hedgehogs can get Sarcoptic mange, which is highly contagious, and can infect humans easily.
> 
> Also "These mites dig into and through the skin, causing intense itching and crusting that can quickly become infected. Hair loss and crusting frequently appear first on elbows and ears. Skin damage can occur from the dog's intense scratching and biting and secondary skin infection is common. Dogs with chronic sarcoptic mange are often in poor condition." Explains your hedgehogs scratching and puncturing of the skin. Even though it talks about dogs, it is the same for most animals with sarcoptic mange.
> 
> ...


edit: apparently some just straight up call mites mange, so you may not have sarcoptic mange on your hands. What makes me think it is sarcoptic mange is the ringworm like sore the vet saw, as you would not readily be able to see regular mites.


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## Juicebox (Mar 22, 2009)

Hmm okay thanks for that piece of advice it was extremely helpful. Im not itchy or anything though lmaoo. The only times I scratch myself its from the thought of being so itchy! Hhaha. Ive been giving her baths with aveeno baby shampoo which is kinda like oatmeal i guess? And the vet told me there were only two doses. One today and another in 2 weeks. And thats it. But the next time I go, ill make sure to get the topical one. I would be devastated if Juicebox died. :/ I washed EVERYTHINGGGGG in her cage. I mean everything. I used clorox on all her bowls, igloo, the cage itself, her water bottle, the litter box everything. And I washed all her hedgie bags and liners and anything that ive used to handle her since I got her with hot water and ALOT of soap and clorox.


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## azyrios (Feb 2, 2009)

you should not be using a strong cleaner like clorox around animals. Bleach can cause adverse health effects in small creatures.

Everything should be cleaned using a non-bleach non-ammonia based cleaner. 50/50 water and vinegar works well.


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## Juicebox (Mar 22, 2009)

Yeah I know, I usually use vinegar and water to clean her cage but the vet told me to really hose it down with clorox to get all the mites out and to let it sit for a while to get the strong smell out. I didnt put her back into the cage until I couldn't smell anything anymore.


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## zoologist (Sep 2, 2008)

Cloud and i have battled his mites for the past 6 months and they are FINALLY gone. here is what you need to do.

Ivermectin needs to be given for three weeks. insist on it. Buy some revolution and treat your hedgie once a month as a preventive measure.

****place your hedgehog on paper towels and replace DAILY****
once a week soak EVERYTHING in the cage and the cage in bleach water. Air dry after rinsing lightly.

When we were dealing with Cloud's mites all he got was his plastic igloo, his food/water dishes and his flying saucer. Now that the mites are finally gone he has his beloved bed back, but i still keep him on paper towels.


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## Juicebox (Mar 22, 2009)

so she cant have her bed or liner? not even a heating pad incase she gets cold?


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## Immortalia (Jan 24, 2009)

She shouldn't get cold if she has proper heating (space heater, or ceramic emitter) or your entire house is kept at around 75


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## Juicebox (Mar 22, 2009)

i keep it at 75 24/7.


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## Immortalia (Jan 24, 2009)

Do you have a thermometer in/on/beside her cage to tell you the exact temp inside her cage? That would help a LOT.


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## Juicebox (Mar 22, 2009)

nopee but im gonna have to go get onee soon because of this now. the vet told me to like tape a heating pad to one of the sides of the cages so she could have a warm place to sleep nice and toasty. should i?


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## Immortalia (Jan 24, 2009)

Only problem with that... Are you still using a glass tank?

Lack of ventilation wouldn't be too good.


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## Juicebox (Mar 22, 2009)

yeah im still using the tank.


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## Juicebox (Mar 22, 2009)

Last night when Juicebox finally came out, she was smelling around everything and i guess there was a bit of clorox there still since she can smell it better than me, and she liked it and started annointing! haha.  also, she hasn't scratched since before i took her to the vet.


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## Reaper (Aug 22, 2008)

You need to rinse the tank out very well. When urine hits the chlorine and the ammonia in urine mixes with it it will produce chlorine gas, Nitrogen trichloride, or Hydrazine. All deadly poisons. Hedgehogs are so small it wouldn't take very much at all. And if not fatal there may be no way to tell if it is a toxin or WHS as the symptoms may appear the same. ALL very bad. I would not want to take the risk.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/classic/A795611


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## Juicebox (Mar 22, 2009)

hmm okay will do that. but what other substitutions can I use to clear out the mange in her tank?


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## Reaper (Aug 22, 2008)

Just bleach it and rinse it out well every few days.


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## azyrios (Feb 2, 2009)

not only is chlorine gas bad for her, licking bleach is also very bad.


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## Juicebox (Mar 22, 2009)

okay. what i do, i pour about an inch of clorox into her tank and fill up the rest of the tank with water and i let it sit in there for about 10 minutes. then i empty it out and fill it up with just water again and rinse it out again.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

You'll still probably want to switch to using something safer than Clorox, just in case. An alternative disinfectant is chlorhexidine, which is what I was given to use for cleaning by the breeder I got Lily from, Gail Dick. I'm not sure if you could find it in a store, but it might be found at a store like Walmart or Kmart. It's animal safe, and I would think it would kill mites, but I'm not 100% sure on that.


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## Immortalia (Jan 24, 2009)

What you can also try... is rinsing a few more times...

After the bleach, rinse with water. Then vinegar/water rinse. Then another water rinse. To make sure you really get it all out. 

Just rinsing it once is not enough.


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## Aleshea (Feb 13, 2009)




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## Juicebox (Mar 22, 2009)

Ill see if they have that at like Walmart or something, and im gonna do what you said Immortalia.  Btw cute pic aleshea.


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## Micio (Mar 23, 2009)

To get the chlorine and the smell out, use a fish-tank dechlorinator in your final rinse. It works for me when I have to bleach my aquarium ornaments


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## Juicebox (Mar 22, 2009)

okay. haha the tank came with a little packet for it, i didnt think it would be handy, but i guess it is now haha.


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## Immortalia (Jan 24, 2009)

Micio said:


> To get the chlorine and the smell out, use a fish-tank dechlorinator in your final rinse. It works for me when I have to bleach my aquarium ornaments




What's in it though? And how would that affect hedgies?


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## Juicebox (Mar 22, 2009)

Its supposed to like purify the water so that the fishes dont die with any extra chlorine in the water. I gues it would just rinse out any excess chlorine in the tank making it safe for juicebox.


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## Micio (Mar 23, 2009)

Immortalia said:


> Micio said:
> 
> 
> > To get the chlorine and the smell out, use a fish-tank dechlorinator in your final rinse. It works for me when I have to bleach my aquarium ornaments
> ...


It's not going to affect hedgehogs. If they drink it straight out of the bottle then it might, but it's a small amount in a large amount of water that is used as a rinse. It will be fine.


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## pezlin (Dec 6, 2008)

Just throwing this out... If you're looking for something to contain your hedgehog that offers better ventilation, you may want to look at a DIY solution. I have two hedgehogs that share the same area that I rescued. I started out with a tupperwear container, but eventually purchased three of those wire fences, some heavy duty plastic, and a ton of fleece. Using some well cleaned rocks to help keep the fence and the fleece in place, I managed to make a roughly 15 sq ft area for Sonic and Prickles to run around.

Vid of their area: 



 (Sorry for the shaky camera)

If you're concerned about your hedgehog climbing over (Sonic tried and succeeded a few times), then safe up empty toliet paper tubes and paper towel tubes, slice them lengthwise, and put them on the top of the fence. That prevented sonic from climbing out, and after a few months of tubes, she just stopped trying.

Pros: Larger area for hedgehog to live in, more ventilated, easier to get to hedgehogs.
Cons: takes up a large corner of the room.


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## azyrios (Feb 2, 2009)

it is nice you have two hiding spots, but do they ever fight over the one and only wheel?


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## pezlin (Dec 6, 2008)

Funny you should mention that... 

Generally no... Sonic seems to hog it a bit and I finally realized why. Prickles toe nails were getting stuck in the wheel's mesh, making her not really want to run. (That's also why she's pretty over weight. During this whole blood in urine thing (see my other health post), we created a new area to keep her isolated, and bought a new wheel... a Flying saucer. She seems to like it just fine - low clearance so she can easily lift her body on to the wheel, its much easier to clean than a silent spinner, and best of all, no gaps for her toe nails to get caught in. Currently that wheel is in the cage too off behind their primary fleece-covered area.

I managed to work her nails back to a reasonable level and she can run on the original wheel much better.


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## Aleshea (Feb 13, 2009)

pezlin said:


> Prickles toe nails were getting stuck in the wheel's mesh, making her not really want to run.


OH MY GOSH! Why would you use a wheel you know hurts you hedgies? Is it just me! Come on!


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## pezlin (Dec 6, 2008)

Wow, ok first off, didn't know her nails were catching. Secondly the wheel was one recommended and made by a member on this site (unfortunately it was a while back, and I forgot his name) - a wheel that was crafted with hedgehogs in mind. Its handmade, with PVC piping for additional stability and weight accommodation. Nancy may be able to refresh my memory... these wheels were originally sold by this member, then he gave the plans to another hedgehog store.

Both Prickles and Sonic love their wheel, and after trimming Prickles nails back a bit, she's fine to run on the wheel again.

EDIT: I remembered who I purchased my wheel from... it was Vern, and from what I found out, he was a pretty respected member on this site before.


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

I've always had concerns about the safety of those wheels and have never recommended them. Anything other than a solid surface is asking for a nail or toe to get caught.


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## dorasdaddy (Dec 23, 2008)

and there was a report from a member last week or the week before their hedgie getting caught between the cross bar and the frame.


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## Juicebox (Mar 22, 2009)

I really like your idea, but theres not nearly enough room for that in my room. >< I was thinking of like making her one of those cages with the black shelf thingies. I forgot whatt theyre called. Anyways, Mesh wheels arent good, Juicebox hasnt had a wheel for about a week now because I took it back. My mom is gonna buy a cakewalk supreme soon.


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## pezlin (Dec 6, 2008)

I think the important thing is to offer your hedgehogs variety. There's rocks, the wooden bridge to climb over/hide under. I'm thinking of putting in some large PVC pipe to give them just one more then to have in their cages.

Also, for a DIY toy, I took the 100 ct Mealworm plastic container (like from Petco), dremmeled out ~1/4" sized holes around the sides and the top. Then I put in a few mealworms/beetles from my mealworm farm. They can smell the mealies and then practice rooting for them by tipping over the containers. Its good times.


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## azyrios (Feb 2, 2009)

wood is very hard to disinfect.


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## Juicebox (Mar 22, 2009)

Yeah, Im working on like, making her cage have more things to do. Her "litter box" has some little toys in it and not litter and she just moves it around and suff its cute but it must be boring. and she sometimes poops in her water. anyone know why they do this?


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