# Peeing on food.



## Jaban (Sep 29, 2012)

I have a hedgehog named Linus, who is around 2 1/2 to 3 years old.

We got him 1 1/2 years ago from someone who didn't take very good care of him. He ate the cheapest cat food, was bordering on obese, his cage was filthy, he had nothing but a blanket to hide under (no wheel, no house, no toys), and they said they often let him roam free in their house - with a cat, who I am sure had a lot more fun "playing" than Linus did. Needless to say, he was not a very personable hedgehog.

Everything has been going well since then. He's still skittish, and would generally rather we leave him alone, but he has improved significantly. And he gets quite inquisitive and personable after a visit from his girlfriend (no surprise there - so do I) 

And that's where my question starts...

The first time we put them together, the girl wouldn't let him have any of the food when she was awake. He started coming out during the day (very unusual for him) to sneak a few bites. And at some point, he figured out that peeing on the food meant it was his.

He's been doing that ever since. Every day, I have to clean out the mushy pee-soaked leftovers from his bowl.

Is this normal? Are there any serious health concerns with him eating peed-on food? If so, what can I do about it?


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## AngelaH (Jul 24, 2012)

First off, welcome to the forum! I'm always happy to hear about people that take in rescue hedgies and give them a better life!  So happy that Linus has you!

As far as the pee goes, I can't say for certain, but I think its harmless because my girl Thistle uses her mouth to clean off the poop from her paws everyday and when asked about it I was assured that it was harmless... but maybe someone with more knowledge will be able to comment on it.

I am concerned about the girl and boy hedgie hanging out together, they shouldn't ever be allowed to hang out together unless you are intentionally trying to breed them. Is that what you are doing? If not you guys need to assume pregnancy in the female and start preparing for babies.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

I'm not sure what to do about the peeing situation either, but you guys definitely need to refrain from putting them in together - breeding should only be done after a lot of research & preparation, and you should really have the pedigrees of both parents in order to check their background for WHS. If you don't, you could be breeding related hedgehogs or hedgehogs that could pass WHS on to their babies. If you don't know what WHS (Wobbly Hedgehog Syndrome) is, I would encourage you to google youtube videos of it. Those videos are heartbreaking and should be enough to convince anyone to be more careful breeding. No one knows a cure for it, or any way to avoid producing hedgehogs that have it other than keeping track of their pedigrees and making sure that none of their ancestors died of WHS. Even this isn't a 100% guarantee, but it's the best we can do.

As Angela said, assume the female is pregnant and start keeping track of the days since the last time you guys had them in together. The "all clear" point is 50 days from the last day you had them in together. She could have babies anytime up until that point. Check out the breeding forum on here and look through the threads to get more information on how to prepare for babies. If the worst happens and she does have babies and you have more questions, feel free to ask on here and some of our breeders can help out. Also make sure you guys have a hedgie-knowledgable vet looked up and ready to go in case the female has complications with the pregnancy or giving birth. If you don't and an emergency happens, you could lose her very quickly. Good luck.


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## Jaban (Sep 29, 2012)

Thanks for the replies!

To be clear, Linus and the girl (Zumi) aren't living together. Zumi belongs to one of our friends in another city.

We put them together initially because Linus was hard to handle - much better after a year of proper care, but still a very grouchy fellow - and we read that breeding can mellow their personalities. And it did.

Our friend read as much as she could find about caring for a pregnant hog and raising the hoglets before breeding them. I can't say we did everything we should have, but who knows everything the first time. In any case, what's done is done. One of the two babies survived (the second was crushed by the sleeping mother), and we now have a teen hoglet being well taken-care-of.

We can't be sure of WHS with Linus, as we took him in second-hand, but he's 2 1/2 and showing no signs of it.


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## moxieberry (Nov 30, 2011)

Just because he doesn't have it doesn't mean he doesn't carry it. Since you don't know his background, there's a good chance that the baby will either develop it or carry it. If the baby is a male, it should be removed from the mother as soon as it's weaned. If it's a male or female, it should not have any interaction with the father.

Please don't allow a male and female to interact in any way again. Trying to make a grumpy hedgehog mellow out is a terrible reason to breed hedgehogs, even if the risk of WHS wasn't there.

Sorry if I'm being harsh, but this forum doesn't take irresponsible breeding lightly.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

Glad the baby is doing well, then.  WHS is difficult to be sure of even if a hedgehog is showing signs of it - the beginning symptoms are the same or similar to other illnesses, such as ear infections, tumors, etc. and you can't properly diagnose it until the hedgehog has died and a necropsy is done. I would still really suggest avoiding breeding them again, it's not really a great way to try and calm a hedgehog down. I know that this whole thing wasn't really what your question was about, but on this forum, we tend to try and discourage casual breeding or breeding for reasons other than improving the health of the hedgehog lines. If you weren't planning on breeding them again, that's great and I'm sorry if I'm coming off like a scolding parent or anything like that. We just really care about hedgehogs & their health and safety on the forum, which includes breeding issues, like I said. 

With the peeing situation, what kind of dish do you have his food in? Have you tried using different dishes or changing the location? I'm not sure whether or not that kind of thing would help, but worth a try if you haven't already tried it. I definitely wouldn't call it normal, I don't recall seeing anything on here about a hedgie peeing on their food before. Poop yes, peeing no. I'm not sure how harmful it would be...Urine is typically sterile (to my knowledge, and unless there's an infection or something causing bacteria in the urine), but wet food tends to spoil faster too. Have you tried placing two separate dishes of food in the cage, away from each other and away from where he usually potties (if he has a usual potty area)? I wonder if he'd pee in both then, or maybe pee in one, eat from another...It's definitely a weird situation.


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## Jaban (Sep 29, 2012)

Thanks for the advice. I've moved his bowl, but I haven't tried two bowls. I'll try that tonight.

It has been going on for a while, and he's suffered no apparent ill effects. But after trying everything I could think of, I thought I better ask someone (and this forum is significantly cheaper than a vet). I didn't want to just ignore it, have him get sick, and find out later that it was a known problem and all I had to do was ask.

It doesn't sound like anyone's raising alarms, so I'll just keep trying different foods (and bowl placements, at your suggestion) and see what happens.

*To answer potential questions of future people giving advice:*

It's almost certainly not accidental. He's not just peeing where he happens to be standing, in and around the food bowl - he's peeing in the bowl only. Plus I've seen him come out shortly after I've filled the bowl, sniff the food, and then turn around and pee on it.

He isn't litter trained and doesn't go in one spot, but he seems to like poop to be hidden, so usually goes underneath and behind his wheel (makes sense - all that running). He usually pees where he poops or while running on the wheel. And he inevitably pees near the water bottle at times, but that is far enough away from the food bowl that he can't be standing on the bowl while drinking.

He is fairly picky about what he eats. This is the same food he's had for a while, but even so, I've tried different food (just one) and adding treats I know he likes, in case the problem was that he didn't like what he was being served. It doesn't seem to make a difference. Though I admit there's more I could try in this regard.

I've tried wetting the food in case he has simply decided he likes it soggy (though this wasn't a problem before), but he still pees on it.


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## artistshrugged (Sep 5, 2012)

When was the last time he interacted with the girl hedgehog? Did they just breed the once, or do her visits occur somewhat frequently? When they did breed, was it in his cage? I wonder if the behavior is still territorial and is being reinforced somehow, either by frequent visits or smelling her or something? I don't think the pee would cause huge health issues, but as a pet parent I would want to avoid it anyhow.


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## Immortalia (Jan 24, 2009)

Have you tried a domed dish? Like the hamster head shaped ones you can find at petsmart. Get one where the opening can just fit his head but he can't climb into. 

I can't really see a hedgie lifting his leg like a dog to pee, so that might be something to try as well.


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