# Mixing Orijen and Blue Buffalo...Thoughts???



## DSPO631 (Nov 28, 2014)

I am planning on feeding Orijen since my cat gets this food. Since the Orijen is High in Protien 42g and Fat 20g, I was thinking to mix with Blue Freedom Weight Control since it only has 28g of Protein and 9g of Fat. My only concern is some negative things I have been reading about Blue Buffalo online. Should I be concerned? If so, does anyone have any other low Protein low fat alternatives that I could use to mix with the Orijen?


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## DesireeM81 (Jun 14, 2014)

Personally I wouldn't be worried about Blue Buffalo until the lawsuit is settled. Once you've read all the legal documents and accusations, even IF Blue Buffalo is lying about their ingredients, there food is still way better than Purina who is leading the lawsuit against them.

However, if you are worried, you can look for a low fat dog food. Dog food has less protein than cat food and if you find a weight control one you will be on the right track. The only thing you will have to do is crush up the dog for so it fits in your little guys mouth. I don't know why but I thought you were in Canada. There is a good sticky of great and easy to find foods.

Last edit I swear - http://www.hedgehogcentral.com/forums/12-diet-nutrition/23042-recommended-foods-list.html - Here is the sticky!


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## DSPO631 (Nov 28, 2014)

WOW I was not aware of a lawsuit. All I read was issues with pet owners claiming that their pet had gotten sick or died due to using Blue Buffalo. I am hoping to use a cat kibble if possible. Don't really want to use a dog food if possible. Any other suggestions.


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## DSPO631 (Nov 28, 2014)

Here are the two mixes I have come up with. Which one would recommend and why? My hedgehog is 6 weeks old and weighs about 120 - 150 grams

BRAND............................NAME..........................PROTEIN.....	FAT
Orijen.............................Cat & Kitten..................42..............20
Natrual Balance................Green Pea & Duck..........30..............12
Chicken Soup for the Soul...Weight & Mature Care....34................9

*TOTAL: 35 Protein / 14 Fat*

OR

BRAND............................NAME..........................PROTEIN.....	FAT
Orijen.............................Cat & Kitten..................42..............20
Natrual Balance................Green Pea & Duck..........30..............12
Acana.............................Wild Prairie...................35................20

*TOTAL: 36 Protein / 17 Fat*


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## DSPO631 (Nov 28, 2014)

My mistake I meant the Acana Grasslands cat and kitten not the Wild Prairie.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

I would go for the second mix. I like Orijen & Acana more than most foods, including Chicken Soup (they're not a bad food, which is why I have them on the list, but still have one or two "eh" ingredients). I meant to try & help with finding lower protein cat foods, but I'm afraid I don't have time right now...I'm in my second-to-last week of school & going crazy with assignments/projects all being due in the next few days! :? After I'm done with finals, I can take another look if you want.


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## DSPO631 (Nov 28, 2014)

That would be great if you can help me find a low protein/low Fat cat food to add. For now here is the final mix.

*BRAND.........................NAME................................PROTEIN........FAT*
Orijen..........................Cat & Kitten...........................42...................20

*INGREDIENTS*

Boneless chicken,* chicken meal, chicken liver,* whole herring,* boneless turkey,* turkey meal, turkey liver,* whole eggs,* boneless walleye,* whole salmon,* chicken heart,* chicken cartilage,* herring meal, salmon meal, chicken liver oil, chicken fat, red lentils, green peas, green lentils, sun-cured alfalfa, kelp, pumpkin,* butternut squash,* spinach greens,* carrots,* apples,* pears,* cranberries,* mixed tocopherols (preservative), chicory root, dandelion root, chamomile, peppermint leaf, ginger root, caraway seeds, turmeric, rose hips, freeze-dried chicken liver, freeze-dried turkey liver, freeze-dried chicken, freeze-dried turkey, dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product + vitamins and minerals

*delivered fresh and preservative-free

*SUPPLEMENTS*

Choline Chloride, Vitamin A, vitamin D3, niacin, riboﬂavin, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12, zinc proteinate, iron proteinate, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, Sodium Selenite.

*BRAND.........................NAME................................PROTEIN........FAT*
Acana..........................Grasslands Cat and Kitten.......35..................20

*INGREDIENTS*

Boneless lamb*, lamb meal, boneless duck*, Pollock meal, duck fat, green lentils, boneless perch*, herring meal, red lentils, salmon meal, chickpeas, green peas, herring oil, whole eggs*, lamb fat, sun-cured alfalfa, dried kelp, pumpkin*, butternut squash*, spinach greens*, carrots*, apples*, pears*, cranberries, mixed tocopherols (preservative), chicory root, dandelion root, chamomile, peppermint leaf, ginger root, caraway seeds, turmeric, rose hips, freeze-dried lamb liver, freeze-dried duck liver, freeze-dried lamb, Enterococcus faecium fermentation product, plus premium vitamins and minerals.

* DELIVERED FRESH FROM OUR REGION DAILY

*SUPPLEMENTS*

Vitamin A supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, niacin, riboflavin, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement, zinc proteinate, iron proteinate, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, sodium selenite, dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product.

*BRAND.........................NAME................................PROTEIN........FAT*
Natrual Balance...........Green Pea & Duck...................30...................12

*INGREDIENTS*

Peas, Duck, Duck Meal, Pea Protein, Canola Oil, Flaxseed, Natural Flavor, Calcium Carbonate, Choline Chloride, Taurine, DL-methionine, Natural Mixed Tocopherols, Zinc Proteinate, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Manganese Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Zinc Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B-1), Vitamin A Supplement, Biotin, Potassium Iodide, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin (Vitamin B-2), Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B-6), Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Manganous Oxide, Sodium Selenite, Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Folic Acid.

*TOTAL: 36 Protein / 17 Fat*


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## MomLady (Aug 14, 2010)

This is assuming that your hedgie will eat it. 
If you can get a small amount, you should try it.
Some hedgies don't like certain shapes and not all hedgies will eat Natural Balance. 

PS They changed the shape of Chicken Soup lite again--it is now a smaller, thinner circular shape. It used to be so big and thick, I would snap them in half. 

Blue Buffalo has a lot of choices, grain-free, limited ingredients. My concern is where their protein sources come from. I am trying to get all US origin foods now. She doesn't eat a lot of kibble anymore since starting the Honest Kitchen food.


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## DSPO631 (Nov 28, 2014)

I agree with the concern over Blue Buffalo...for now it is off the menu. I guess I never thought about if he would eat it. Silly me...I will try and get some samples.

Here are a few Low Protein options...anyone tried either of these foods?

*BRAND.........................NAME................ ................PROTEIN........FAT*
PetGuard..........................Organic Matrue....................24...................14

*INGREDIENTS:*

Organic Chicken, Organic Quinoa, Organic Oat Groats, Organic Barley, Organic Flax Meal, Organic Chicken Broth, Organic Brown Rice, Organic Chicken Fat, Organic Sunflower Oil, Organic Carrots, Organic Spinach, Organic Potatoes, Organic Peas, Organic Kelp, Organic Amaranth, Organic Apple Fiber, Calcium Carbonate, Calcium Ascorbate (Source of Vitamin C), Vitamin A Supplement, Calciferol (Source of Vitamin D), Vitamin E Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement (Source of Vitamin B2), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine (Source of Vitamin B1), Biotin, Niacin, Folic Acid, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Source of Vitamin B6), Iron Amino Acid Chelate, Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Manganese Amino Acid Chelate, Calcium Amino Acid Chelate, Copper Amino Acid Chelate, Cobalt Amino Acid Chelate, Sodium Selenite.

*BRAND.........................NAME................ ................PROTEIN........FAT*
Wysong............................Anergen............................28...................12

*INGREDIENTS:*

Lamb Meal, Peas, Brown Rice, Sweet Potatoes, Flaxseeds, Soybean Oil, Dried Plain Beet Pulp, Eggs, Montmorillonite Clay, Crab Meal, Coconut Oil, Whey, Salt, Rice Bran Oil, Calcium Carbonate, Tomato Pomace, Calcium Propionate, Taurine, Choline Chloride, Organic Barley Grass, Blueberry, Dried Kelp, Yogurt, Citric Acid, Apple Pectin, Fish Oil, Yeast Extract, Mixed Tocopherols, Rosemary Extract, Chicory Root, Hemicellulose Extract, Yeast Culture, Carrots, Celery, Beets, Parsley, Lettuce, Watercress, Spinach, Minerals (Potassium Chloride, Zinc Proteinate, Zinc Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Iron Proteinate, Copper Sulfate, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Sulfate, Manganese Proteinate, Sodium Selenite, Calcium Iodate), Vitamins (Ascorbic Acid [source of Vitamin C], Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin A Supplement, T h i a m i n e M o n o n i t ra t e , P y r i d ox i n e Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Folic Acid), Dried Bacillus licheniformis Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus oryzae Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus niger Fermentation Product, Dried Enterococcus faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus ca s e i Fe r m e ntat i o n P ro d u c t , D r i e d Lactobacillus acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Bacillus subtilis Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus plantarum Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus lactis Fermentation Product, Pepper


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## Prickerz (Sep 17, 2014)

I honestly don't like blue buffalo. They haven't even been established the full life span of a cat or dog, so how do we know the full effects of their food throughout an animal's life?
Their lifesource bits actually have less nutrirional value compared to the rest of the kibble.

But, this is just my opinion


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## DSPO631 (Nov 28, 2014)

Prickerz said:


> I honestly don't like blue buffalo. They haven't even been established the full life span of a cat or dog, so how do we know the full effects of their food throughout an animal's life?
> Their lifesource bits actually have less nutrirional value compared to the rest of the kibble.
> 
> But, this is just my opinion


I have removed Blue Buffalo from the Menu...Thanks. What are your thoughts on my final mix....also what about the low Protein options I listed instead of Natural Balance


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## DesireeM81 (Jun 14, 2014)

Orijen is nice food. I have seen a lot of people overseas use it. I like the fact that it uses lamb! I like that one. 

You don't have to pull Natural Balance out of the running yet if you don't want too. If you go to PetCo, they have an amazing return policy. If it's been less than 30 days and the bag is half full they will refund you your money. I have used it a lot with my hedgehogs. One bag Penny wouldn't eat, another bag had something in it I didn't like, I think it was brewer's rice and another was a bag of food I bought for my hedgehog that wouldn't eat. I basically took some out of the bag so she has enough to switch over to her normal food and returned the rest of the bag because I didn't want to use it up. They have never denied me a return. :lol:


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## DSPO631 (Nov 28, 2014)

That is good to know, I also found a local pet shop yesterday that will also allow me to return any uneaten food within 30 days as long as I don't use more than 1/2 the bag.

Which food do you like better between the Wysong, PetGuard or Natrual Balance?


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## DesireeM81 (Jun 14, 2014)

I have only tried the Natural Balance. My little girl Penny isn't thrilled about it but she will eat, the other three don't care. 

Both foods look really good. I like PetGuard if you are mixing with Orijen because the protein is really high in that one. If you are mixing more than one than any look good. 

Another thing to consider, besides mixing for protein and fat ratios and avoiding a hunger strike should one food not be available, mixing foods is also a great way to mix in different proteins. This is better for your hedgie too. Imagine have chicken every night for dinner. A mix of different proteins helps in making sure all of our basis are covered nutritionally.


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## DSPO631 (Nov 28, 2014)

I am for sure mixing the Orijen and Acana. The third would be one of the low protein sources like the Natrual Balance, Wysong or PetGuard.

The Acana has Lamb and Duck the Orijen has the Chicken and fish


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## DSPO631 (Nov 28, 2014)

Here are two Dog foods that are lower in Protein...anyone tried these? If so how small is the Kibble?

*Solid Gold Just a Wee Bit
*
*Ingredients*
Bison | Ocean Fish Meal | Brown Rice | Millet | Cracked Pearled Barley | Rice Bran | Canola Oil | Tomato Pomace | Flaxseed | Natural Flavor | Salmon Oil (source of DHA) | Choline Chloride | Taurine | Dried Chicory Root | Parsley Flakes | Pumpkin Meal | Almond Oil | Sesame Oil | Yucca Schidigera Extract | Thyme | Blueberries | Cranberries | Carrots | Broccoli | Vitamin E Supplement | Iron Proteinate | Copper Proteinate | Ferrous Sulfate | Zinc Sulfate | Copper Sulfate | Potassium Iodide | Thiamine Mononitrate | Manganese Proteinate | Manganous Oxide | Ascorbic Acid | Vitamin A Supplement | Biotin | Calcium Panthothenate | Manganese Sulfate | Sodium Selenite | Pyridoxine Hydrochloride | Vitamin B12 (Cyanocobalamin) | Riboflavin | Vitamin D Supplement | Folic Acid

Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein, Min 28%
Crude Fat, Min 18%*
Crude Fiber, Max 4%
Moisture, Max 10%
Calories per Cup 380

*Fromm Small Breed Adult Gold Dry Dog Food*

Specifically developed for the metabolism of small breed adult dogs available in smaller kibble than Adult Gold. Naturally formulated with duck, chicken, lamb, whole eggs & real Wisconsin cheese. In addition, we enhance our Gold recipes with probiotics to aid digestion and salmon oil for a healthy coat.

*Ingredients: *
Duck, chicken meal, chicken, oatmeal, pearled barley, brown rice, dried tomato pomace, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), whole egg, menhaden fish meal, lamb, potatoes, salmon oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols), flaxseed, cheese, brewers dried yeast, alfalfa meal, carrots, lettuce, celery, chicken cartilage, potassium chloride, salt, monosodium phosphate, taurine, chicory root extract, yucca schidigera extract, tryptophane, dl-methionine, sodium selenite, Vitamins, Minerals, Probiotics.

Guaranteed Analysis:
Crude Protein 26% Min 
Crude Fat 17% Min 
Crude Fiber 3.5% Max 
Moisture 10% Max 
Omega 3 Fatty Acids 0.5% Min

Calorie Content kcal/kg 3,963 
kcal/lb 1,801 
kcal/cup* 416


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

If you want one of the cat foods, I think I'd go with Wysong, since it has a meat meal as the first ingredient. I've also heard a lot of good things about them. The other one looks decent too, but having just regular chicken for the first ingredient means that when the moisture from the chicken is cooked out of it, it ends up being a smaller portion of the food than the fillers that come after it (because everything is weighed before cooking).

I'd choose Fromm Small Breed over all of the ones you've listed though. They're a good brand, with good ingredients. I'm afraid I can't say how big the kibble are though, I've never used either food. I did get a different brand's small breed puppy food & the kibble was as small as medium-sized cat kibble. I'm just not sure if adult would be much bigger, and I'm sure brands differ. Perhaps you could contact the company & see if you can get some sample bags?


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## DSPO631 (Nov 28, 2014)

I was able to locate tons of samples from a local Pet Food store. Here are pictures of the Fromm Small Breed, Acana and Orijen....The Fromm is smaller than both the Orijen and Acana. I already have been feeding the Orijen and will begin to feed the Fromm in a few weeks.

This mix will be 34g Protein and 19g Fat...A little high on the fat end but I think it should be fine during the first few months of Sonic's life.


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## ellisrks01 (Mar 25, 2014)

Great, glad you found some samples. I hope sonic likes them!!

Thanks for posting kibble size  So is that Acana the Grasslands cat &kitten?? 

Im pretty sure I'm going to be picking some up for my youngest and possibly use it for my next litter too(depending). I've been reading a lot about it and I like it. I was recommended to use Evolve kitten formula by my breeder/mentor but now that I've learned a little more about nutrition and babies I rather not keep using it. My guys do seem to love it that's why I didn't do the switch months ago.

Anyways...I'm glad you posted kibble size and I'm glad i seen this particular kitten food. I was going to ask about size anyways. :grin:

Good luck with the new food!!


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## DSPO631 (Nov 28, 2014)

Yes, here is the details on the Acana

BRAND.........................NAME................ ................PROTEIN........FAT
Acana..........................Grasslands Cat and Kitten.......35..................20

INGREDIENTS

Boneless lamb*, lamb meal, boneless duck*, Pollock meal, duck fat, green lentils, boneless perch*, herring meal, red lentils, salmon meal, chickpeas, green peas, herring oil, whole eggs*, lamb fat, sun-cured alfalfa, dried kelp, pumpkin*, butternut squash*, spinach greens*, carrots*, apples*, pears*, cranberries, mixed tocopherols (preservative), chicory root, dandelion root, chamomile, peppermint leaf, ginger root, caraway seeds, turmeric, rose hips, freeze-dried lamb liver, freeze-dried duck liver, freeze-dried lamb, Enterococcus faecium fermentation product, plus premium vitamins and minerals.


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