# New-Baby/New-Owner and a steep learning curve?



## alsohere (Dec 26, 2011)

I received a hedgehog for Christmas. I am old, so the responsibility of taking care of the what I call the little pig isn't a problem, but the problem is sorting out the loads of stuff on the internet and knowing what to do.

Right now, Mary Harly-Chip Poppins is in a very small cage --I have a 23''x36'' floor size cage she will be moving too soon. But, I need to get everything so she's comfortable and so am I.

I am wondering if fabric liners are the way to go, and if anyone has a DIY for making fleece liners. I have some bedding for Harly, but I don't know if I should start using the stuff or not. 

So, any help would be great. I am really afraid of putting stringy stuff in her cage and things, but I did cut up a fleece jacket, so she could burrow in her Saltine Cracker Box --awaiting the igloo from amazon. 

I am also awaiting the CHE and right now my room is 76 degrees from the space heater and I am melting.


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## chelsea.kang (Dec 2, 2011)

Fleece is the way to go. My little guy is on aspen and its a huge pain. There are shavings everywhere, its a pain to clean, I have no way of seeing what color his pee is (except when he pees on me, silly hedgie) etc. Not to mention I have paranoia about mites. I cannot wait for my liners to come in the mail. Can't help with how to make them. I'm sure if you search on Google or around this forum you could find instructions.


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## chelsea.kang (Dec 2, 2011)

Scroll done to the second to last post.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=8425&p=71538&hilit=cage+liner+template#p71538


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## alsohere (Dec 26, 2011)

Awesome. I have priced the fleece, and it seems Walmart has it pretty cheap. 4.97 for a yard that's 60 inches wide. I am going to order a bunch and run with it. I am not sure if I should just triple it and leave all three layers fleece or try and get something more absorbent for the middle layer. Maybe someone knows of a fabric that could be used for the center, or maybe fleece would work fine for all three?

I have some more questions: I hear water bowl is better for Harly in the long-term, and I am going with that, even though I am concerned about Harly tipping the bowl over does anyone know of really, really heavy water bowls for them. 

2. Harly is currently receiving hedgehog food, but I have kitten food for her too. The full grown cat food seems to be too big for her. Is the kitten food nutritionally sound enough. I am going to limit Harly to 110 calories per day, because that's what I've read is this right.

3. Is there a book, a bible for these critters. I have a whole lot of time --wheelchair bound, housebound, cat just died hedgehog filling the void, and hopefully she's up to the job.


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## Kalandra (Aug 25, 2008)

For anyone who is looking to purchase fleece (especially if you are looking to purchase a lot), check out Han**** Fabrics.

Han**** Fabrics has several types of fleece on sale for 70% off. You can find solid colors for as low as $2.39 /yd right now. 

The bowls I use for water are actually fairly light. I place them in a corner where my hedgehogs do not typically burrow and they do not knock the water over. For those that burrow every where, I curl a corner of the cage liner over to prevent it from being spilled.

If this is a baby hedgehog, I would not limit calorie intake at all! As he grows, he will have days where he needs more food than usual. I have a 6 month old that went through a growing spurt about 3 weeks ago. She typically eats about 15 grams of food a day. During her growing spurt she was eating as much as 22 grams (think 3 heaping table spoons). Most hedgehogs will not over eat, and should be free fed. 

Kitten food is often added for babies as it provides extra calories and is smaller for small mouths. My 6 month old is still eating foods that are not usually recommended for adult hedgehogs (18%+ fat). She's still growing and filling out.

The best bible you can find is right here. You'll find lots of information on how to do things. If you have questions post them to open forum. You'll find people who will reply, and if someone posts something inaccurate, someone else will come along and correct it (best part of using a web forum instead of a website or book). Many books are outdated but are still being printed and republished. Of those found in bookstores, I would recommend Hedgehogs (Complete Pet Owner's Manual) by Sharon Lynn Vanderlip. Its probably one of the most recent that provides safe information. Beware of those published in the early 90s or are a republished version. They actually can contain information that is harmful.


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## alsohere (Dec 26, 2011)

Thanks for the Han**** fabrics. My grandma is a beast at sewing and she's going to make a few of the fleece things for me. I don't know whee she'll buy the fabric from, but I'll be getting some from Han****'s. She has her own supplier, because she does upholstery.

I guess Harly is a baby she's seven weeks old, so I will leave her on full feed. I don't want an obese pig, because of the health problems that comes with it.

I appreciate the near instant feedback on the site. I will use it as the bible instead of getting information from a book. 

I haven't found a vet yet. I have a small animal vet, but I don't know if they could do much for Harly. I don't know what things hedgies go to the vet for, but hopefully Harly can wait until February to go to the vet for the initial visit --that's when the money when be available. 

What frequency should Harly go to the vet? I've always felt cheated going to the vet, because they don't seem to do anything, but I want the pig to live for many years.


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## chelsea.kang (Dec 2, 2011)

I wouldn't be too concerned about obesity, most hedgies become obese because people feed them junk kitten/cat food. There's a dry cat food list on the forum (viewtopic.php?f=6&t=15). I've been slowly weaning mine off his junk cat food he came with and onto a more healthy cat food mix (most of us mix 2 -3 different cat foods). I also provide several mealworms and gut loaded crickets each evening. He'll be going on a baby food mix soonish. Be careful about adding new foods too quickly as it can cause upset tummies. In terms of how much to feed it varies from hedgie to hedgie. I started out with about three tablespoons per night and kept count of how much kibble he left behind. After getting settled into his new home he takes about 3.5 tablespoons a night. He's only 8 weeks old and very active so he seems to eat more as a hyperactive baby. Keep in mind you want to see some kibble left behind daily but not a ton as this is a waste.

PS You can also get a postal scale to weigh him on just to keep track. From the top uncurled you want to see I I or ( ) shape. ) ( indicates underweight

Vet frequency... I would do a wellness exam after having him for a few weeks just so he's more comfortable with you and you'll be able to answer the vet's questions about eating and activity habits. Younger hedgies would probably be safe with an annual wellness exam, but older hedgies I'd take every 6 months.


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## alsohere (Dec 26, 2011)

grandma brought home the book "The Hedgehog" by dawn Wrobel. Is it any good? published 1997,


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## alsohere (Dec 26, 2011)

Working through the Dry Cat Food list, and there's a lot of stuff there. I am on page ten of thirty and have some idea of what's good less than 15 percent fat, but I am not sure of the rest. A post from Nancy says high protein may cause kidney problems, but what is too high?

I have Brown"s Zoo Vital Hedgehog Food: 15% protein; 4% fat; 5% min fiber 7% max fiber. There seems to be a lot of crap in it, but this is what was provided with the hedgehog.

I also have Purina Pro Plan Salmon and Rice --adult--: 40% protein; 16% fat; 2% fiber max

From what I've read the cat food is too high in protein --Harly is 7 weeks old-- I've read the list of dry cat foods. Are all of these cat foods good? Does it matter which one on the list I use, is there a good blend that others have made up. I used the linked to Pixie's website, but I couldn't find the blend she was composing back in 2008.

I am looking at Royal Canine Oral Sensitive 30, but has anyone has good results with something else.


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## chelsea.kang (Dec 2, 2011)

40% protein is too high. Stay around 32 -34 % to be safe. All the cat foods on the list are quality. It kind of comes down to how picky the hedgie is and how sensitive their digestion is.

Mine is on Innova Low Fat Cat and Blue Buffalo Longevity Mature. I chose these two because they are made of different meats (ie Innova primary meat turkey & chicken. Blue Buffalo primary meat whitefish). I also chose them because they come 3 lbs bags. As a college student with too many roommates I don't have space to store food in the freezer. If you do that is definitely ideal so food doesn't go stale. Keep in mind cat food shouldn't be the only food they get. 

Marvin isn't picky about his kibble but he won't eat his veggies. Veggie baby food mixed with a meat one remedies this.

BUGS. Mealworms are a favorite of many hedgies and their owners. Mealies are slow moving and can't get out of food dishes. 
Crickets are another easy feed. I buy live and gutload (sweet potato, lettuce, orange, apple, bananas, peas blended and then frozen in ice cube trays). After gutloading for 2 - 3 days I freeze mine either outside in the snow or in the freezer depending on if my roommates are home or not . Freezing the crickets kills them. Allowing you to hide them around the cage or leave them in your hedgies food dish. Some people feed live crickets in their bathtubs or other enclosed areas. My little guy has stage fright so we're working on it...

Other things to feed that I'm still waiting to try include
- cooked chicken UNSEASONED
- scrambled or hard boiled eggs


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## chelsea.kang (Dec 2, 2011)

This will give you an idea of what someone else has done for a cat food mix.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2232&p=17903&hilit=shopping+cart#p17903

PS Keep your hedgie on the food it came with for at least a week since you got him. There's a lot changing around him so no need to add to digestive stress. It may not be the best food but it's only a week and then you can start mixing in a new kibble.

Week 1: 100% old food
Week 2: 75% old food, 25% new food
Week 3: 50/50
Week 4: 25% old food, 75% new food
Week 5: 100% new food

Only add one new kibble at a time. That way if your hedgie does get an upset tummy you know which food caused it.


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## alsohere (Dec 26, 2011)

Yeah, we have a giant freezer outside for the chickens and mkt. pig. So, I will get a couple bags from Amazon or something and see about sticking most of it in the freezer. I am not sure what "gutload" means.

But, I am capable of ordering the mix that's on the link. 

I am looking at the mealworms available on Amazon --it must be stressed that I am not very mobile, and I will have a difficult time getting anything that's not available online; I rarely leave the house and when I do it is only to go to the doctors (I understand this isn't health, but it's just too difficult right now, but a new wheelchair ramp is being installed, so that'll help.)

1. are freeze dried ok, or regular dried, or roasted?
If there's a brand that you use other than alive, or can I just buy the alive ones and freeze them?


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## alsohere (Dec 26, 2011)

Grandma and mom picked up the fleece today when they were Christmas ornament shopping and a wheel. Grandma wouldn't let me know the colors, but they're girly colors, because Harly is a girl. 

So, I will have the liners sometime in the next few days.

I am going to put Harly in her big pen tonight. I bought the paper litter for now, because something needs to be in the cage, and I think it's inhumane to keep Harly in the tiny pen until the fleece is made, but the paper litter will hold her over.

There's some edges in the container in the bottom. They're supports should I be concerned about these hurting Harly or will she be fine. There like 12 of them, and I didn't think anything of them, but grandma said she would split a pool tube and make it so she wouldn't get hurt.


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## chelsea.kang (Dec 2, 2011)

You can buy live online no problem. I used to do this when I had more reptiles as its cheaper and more convenient. If I recall correctly freeze dried can cause constipation. Roasted should be safe but they're very crumbly.

Live mealworms can be kept in the fridge, this does not kill them, merely slows their maturation. 

Live crickets are preferred also because of gut loading. Gut loading is feeding the crickets a ton of healthy food for a few days before feeding to your hedgie. It's a way to sneak in some extra nutrients (example veggies) your hedgie won't eat on his own. When I used to order online I'd kind of shock the crickets with 30 minutes in the FRIDGE (not freezer) when they first arrived. This makes opening the box easier as they don't jump everywhere. While they were taking their little cricket nap I would throw in my gut load (you don't have to do the blended version I do, cut up veggies and fruits work just fine). Then close box leave for 2 - 3 days at room temp. Then put back in FREEZER overnight. And boom nutrient rich crickets without ever having to deal with jumping crickets everywhere. I store mine in ziplock bags in the freezer. Try not to put too many in one bag as they can umm become a giant cricket block.


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## alsohere (Dec 26, 2011)

Found the answer about freeze dried mealworms on the forum: not a good idea, but the thread said buying live and freezing them is okay. Just feed before they are out too long.


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## nikki (Aug 28, 2008)

Don't buy to much food at a time, even if its kept in the freezer it will go stale over time. You're better off to buy smaller amounts more often.


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## alsohere (Dec 26, 2011)

Is this too much to have at one time:

Wellness Indoor Health Dry Cat Food (5-lb bag)
Chicken Soup for the Cat Lover's Soul Senior Hairball Cat Formula (6-lb bag) 
Blue Spa Select Weight Control Chicken and Brown Rice Dry Cat Food (3-lb bag)
Natural Balance Green Pea & Duck Formula Dry Cat Food (3-lb bag) 

I was going to try this mix. Just because. No other reason than the thread seemed to posit it as a great mix. I am worried about the kibble being too big though, because the stuff I have Purina Pro Salmon Mary Harly Poppins doesn't seem to be able to eat. 

I had her out for an hour and she climbed everywhere and burrowed in my blankets and pooped on my and urinated on my bed and things, so I think she's adjusting. I haven't put her in the big pen --have to wait for help. Her poop seems to be nice and solid. I was told it would get runny for a day or two, but it didn't.


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## alsohere (Dec 26, 2011)

What size live crickets should I buy?


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## casxcore (Jul 28, 2011)

No one mentioned heating the cage?


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## alsohere (Dec 26, 2011)

I ordered the CHE and all the stuff for it, but it's not here yet. So, I will be heating the cage with that soon, but I don't want Harly to get cold, so I have a space heater warming us up to 76 degrees. I am miserable...

I also ordered some cat food and meal worms, but I didn't know what size crickets, so I wait on them.


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## casxcore (Jul 28, 2011)

The fact that you're sacrificing your comfort level to make sure she is warm enough makes you a great hedgie owner already.


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## JustOnePost (Dec 27, 2011)

alsohere said:


> Working through the Dry Cat Food list, and there's a lot of stuff there. I am on page ten of thirty and have some idea of what's good less than 15 percent fat, but I am not sure of the rest. A post from Nancy says high protein may cause kidney problems, but what is too high?
> 
> I have Brown"s Zoo Vital Hedgehog Food: 15% protein; 4% fat; 5% min fiber 7% max fiber. There seems to be a lot of crap in it, but this is what was provided with the hedgehog.
> 
> ...


Touching on this because no one else seemed to notice, if you are still feeding Brown"s Zoo Vital Hedgehog Food please cease and desist it is a formula for their cousins the European Hedgehog and contains ingredients which can be poisonous and damaging to the African Hedgehog.

You can find a bit of info on this in the Diet section under the "Commercial Hedgehog Foods" topic.


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## alsohere (Dec 26, 2011)

Okay, Justonepost. I was picking out the raisins, but I have stopped completely. Harly will have to take the hit on the upset stomach, but she really likes the cat food a lot more anyways.

Grandma brought over the fleece liners. They're great, but Mary Harly Poppins is sleeping under the fleece liner. Grandma also made a cozy, but Harly had no interest in it. However, it was the middle of the night for her, so tonight we'll see what's up.

I am thinking about velcroing the edges of the fleece liner to container, so Harly cannot burrow underneath it. I am not too concerned about it, but I would like her to be on top.


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## ThePliny (Jun 3, 2010)

You are doing a great job with little Harly! Sounds like she is going to be spoiled, happy little hog.
First-time hedgie ownership is a steep learning curve for everyone; no matter how much research you do ahead of time, it never fully prepares you for the real thing.
Hopefully all of your goodies arrive soon!


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## alsohere (Dec 26, 2011)

Laundry detergent:

Can I use Baby Shampoo to wash my hedgehogs fleece liners and things?


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## ShutUpAndSmile (Mar 7, 2011)

Not really it's not meant for clothing. Would you wash your hair with laundry detergent? =o
Same thing.


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## alsohere (Dec 26, 2011)

I wash my clothes with Baby Shampoo. I have sensitive skin, and everything breaks me out. The baby shampoo doesn't.. But, hedgies aren't as sensitive as I, so I'll get some unscented laundry soap.


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## Christemo (Oct 5, 2011)

Unscented soap works well.
(Have you tried Dreft for yourself? It works wonders for me.)


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## alsohere (Dec 26, 2011)

I tried it, but wasn't pleased. It has some chemicals that I am concerned about specifically: Propylene Glycol, Ethyl Alcohol, Sodium Hydroxide, and Calcium Formate.

I know that Ultrasensitive Baby Shampoo doesn't have these chemicals. Ethyl Alcohol is suspected to cause cancer. I could go through the whole list of things these chemicals may cause, but you can go to http://www.goodguide.com and search almost any consumer product to see it's chemical list.


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## ashh51191 (Dec 23, 2011)

what is a CHE I keep hearing a lot about them on this website but I can't seem to find out what they are...


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## chelsea.kang (Dec 2, 2011)

Ceramic Heat Emitter.


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## Christemo (Oct 5, 2011)

alsohere said:


> I tried it, but wasn't pleased. It has some chemicals that I am concerned about specifically: Propylene Glycol, Ethyl Alcohol, Sodium Hydroxide, and Calcium Formate.
> 
> I know that Ultrasensitive Baby Shampoo doesn't have these chemicals. Ethyl Alcohol is suspected to cause cancer. I could go through the whole list of things these chemicals may cause, but you can go to http://www.goodguide.com and search almost any consumer product to see it's chemical list.


Ethyl alcohol is the stuff you drink.  </chem major>


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## alsohere (Dec 26, 2011)

Yes, Ethanol... ethyl alcohol. It is in dreft. I live on a farm, so I know what ethanol is. However, grain liquor in my critter's fleece liner isn't something I think is a splendid idea. I understand that a lot of people use dreft, but I also know that I break-out when I use it. I just though using Aveno Baby Cleansing Therapy Scent Free would be better for my little ones overall comfort.

What about the Ecowasbal linked here: http://thehighlow.com/2010/11/green-tre ... necessary/

Says it cleans the laundry without soap. I haven't tried it, but I am going to give a try.

I know Harly and I will have to work on liter training, because the fleece liner looks like a minefield. She isn't trying to be fastidious.


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