# Not eating kibble!



## DesireeM81 (Jun 14, 2014)

One thing after another with my hedgies.

Back ground info
Winter, male, albino, 442 grams, cage temp 78, light schedule from 8am to 10pm, active runner, was a little overweight. 

I went on vacation for 8 days and left all my hedgehogs with my fiance who fed them, watered them and cuddled them. 

Now Winter isn't eating his kibble, wet or raw food. He ate the first night I was back Wednesday night, he ate two super worms the next night but nothing else, this morning, nothing was eaten. I fed him three superworms and a pinkie and he gobbled them up so he has an appetite. I tried to syringe feed him yesterday but that is utterly impossible. I waited for an hour for him to uncurl enough to get the syringe near his face and he curled up again. I waited again and I couldn't do it. I tried holding a few fingers on his belly so he couldn't curl up and he curled up so hard. I got bit a few times which is fine but I stressed him and me out so bad that I am at a loss.

A vet visit is probably in order but I doubt it will help. I can't get food in him, how would I get meds in him? Any syringe near his face and he will curl up so tight. How do you all feed a cranktastic hedgehog something he doens't want? I've tried all my tricks including putting him in water. He will basically drown himself. 

Also poo is green and smells like death, I'm assuming bacteria. Earliest appointment at the vet will be Tuesday. 

Will pinkie mice sustain him for a few days? With some bugs, enough to stave off fatty liver disease? Can I inject meds into a pinkie mouse to get him to eat it if they prescribe them?

Thanks in advance. You guys are always life savers.


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## DesireeM81 (Jun 14, 2014)

Vet appointment is made for Tuesday at 3:30pm.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

Have you tried wrapping him in a towel or blanket, similar to what the video in the Syringe Feeding sticky shows? I would suggest a thick winter sock with the toe end cut off, but I'm not sure you could get it over his head to be useful in the first place.

If you absolutely can't syringe him, then I would continue giving him pinky mice (I'd go with 2-3 if you can) & superworms so he's eating something. Keep offering anything else you can to see if anything strikes his fancy. I would consider it a good sign that even if he's feeling crummy, apparently it's not crummy enough to turn down special treats like those. I'm not sure I would inject the pinkies with medicine. It sounded like a good idea at first, but he can't eat them in one bite, so I feel like he'd find the medicine and possibly get upset at the taste & stop eating. You could try one to see if he'd notice though! If he does, superworms or crickets (if he likes them) would probably work better since they're smaller. Or maybe mixing it in with canned/raw food if he goes back to eating normally.


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## DesireeM81 (Jun 14, 2014)

Thanks. I will try those methods. We are at the emergency vet now once he soiled himself and had a very liquid diarrhea and when he turned up his nose at superworms and another pinkie.

He was actually active and out with the nurse, the little stinker. He smelled her lotion and went straight for it. Of course! My little anointer. I'll keep this updated.


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## DesireeM81 (Jun 14, 2014)

I was given carnivore care, an anti parasitic and amoxicillin. I got a bite into him and he was done. I literally have to shove the syringe into the tiniest hole I can find to get into his mouth and he is so tight lipped. I'm sure I'm hurting him but I don't know what else to do. I haven't been able to get his meds. I need help and I don't know what to do. 

Also, I hate the emergency vet. She refused to put him under to do the exam or to give him sub q's. I was so irritated with her but there was literally nothing I could do about. I told them a million times if they needed to to do it and they looked at me like I was crazy so he didn't get a good exam and they didn't get a fecal. There was little poop in his kennel that they took but I guess it wasn't enough to run or something. In either case, I really wasn't impressed and was very irritated. 

I'm terrified he won't make it through this if I can't give him meds or get him to eat. I really need words of encouragement and some advice please. And any thoughts and prayers sent his way. 

He is also refusing any bugs and any mice at this moment. I'm picking up some baby food for tonight to try after work.


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## DesireeM81 (Jun 14, 2014)

Alright, thankfully, I got him to take the amoxicillin by dropping it on his nose. I got him to eat very little but something is better than nothing. I'll try the anti-parasistic tomorrow. I'm feeding him a mixture of CC and baby food. Whichever flavor catches his attention.


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## DesireeM81 (Jun 14, 2014)

This morning went a lot better. He ate a tsp of carnivore care, some carrot and raspberry baby food and both meds. Not nearly enough to make me not worry but enough. I will feed him again after work, then around dinner time, then before bed.

Oh, and I have been using a medicine dropper to administer meds and food. I can drip it on his nose to get him interested and then he normally accepts it. It makes me nervous because he could inhale it but right now I need to get something into him.


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## sc2001 (Oct 12, 2014)

Looks like you're doing all you can for Winter. I just wanted to tell you to stay strong and keep going. Its so awesome to hear that this morning went better! 

Stay strong winter!!!


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## DesireeM81 (Jun 14, 2014)

*Unconventional food*

Winter really likes the amoxicillin. I think because it's sweet maybe? He struggles with everything else. I have tried every kind of baby food, from bananas to pears to berries. I was mixing Harvest's, my crested gecko, food last night and every time I think it smells like a smoothie. I was wondering if everything looks okay in the ingredients would it be okay to start with this food, and then slowly add the carnivore care into to get Winter to eat. It's a little weird but the ingredients look okay to me. The reason I ask is that, I get more CC and baby food on him than I do in him. If I can get him to take it like the amoxicillin I have a feeling he will be more willing to eat for me and might encourage him to eat on his own.

Ingredients: Dried Watermelon, Whey Protein Isolate, Dried Mango, Dried Banana, Dried Apple, Dried Egg White, Dried Coconut Milk, Rice Bran, Precipitated Calcium Carbonate, Microcrystalline Hydroxyapatite, Bee Pollen, Spirulina, Apple Pectin, Direct Fed Microbials (Dried Aspergilus niger, Aspergillus oryzae, Bacillus subtilis, Bifidobacterium bifidum, Enterococcus faecium, Lactobacillus acidophilus Fermentation Products), Mixed Tocopherols, Potassium Sorbate, Beet Juice Powder, Choline Chloride, Ferrous Sulfate, Beta Carotene, Inositol, Niacin, Kelp Meal, Ascorbic Acid, Cholecalciferol, Potassium Chloride, Riboflavin,Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Biotin, Folic Acid, Sulfur, Zinc Oxide, Vitamin B12.

Guaranteed Analysis: Crude Protein Min 21%, Crude Fat Min 3.5%, Crude Fiber Max 8%, Moisture Max 6% Calcium Min 1.2%, Phosphorus Min .5%

I also have this Banana Papaya flavor which has a slightly higher fat content.

Ingredients: Dried Banana, Whey Protein Isolate, Dried Papaya, Rice Bran, Dried EggWhite, Di-Calcium Phosphate, Calcium Carbonate, Dried Coconut Milk, Spirulina, Beet Juice Powder, Lecithin, Bee Pollen, Direct Fed Microbials (Dried Aspergilus niger, Aspergillus oryzae, Bacillus subtilis, Bifidobacterium bifidum, Enterococcus faecium, Fermentation Products), Mixed Tocopherols ,Choline Chloride, Ferrous Sulfate, dl-AlphaTocopheral, Beta Carotene, Inositol, Niacin, Kelp Meal, Ascorbic Acid, Cholecalciferol, Potassium Chloride, Riboflavin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Biotin, Folic Acid, Potassium Sorbate, Sulfur, Zinc Oxide, Vitamin B12.

Guaranteed Analysis: Crude Protein Min 21%, Crude Fat Min 4.5%, Crude Fiber Max 8%, Moisture Max 6%


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

Both of those look like they'd be fine to try with him, IMO. Like you said, most important right now is getting food into him, so I think as long as it's not something toxic or anything like that, anything is worth trying. I'm glad he got something into him. I know it's stressful for both of you, but I would keep trying every hour or two to get something into him. Maybe he'll finally figure out that you're not going to take no for an answer and he'll cooperate? :roll: They can be so stubborn sometimes! I'm sorry he's being so grumpy for you and causing you so much worry. Hang in there and keep updating us. I was thinking about you guys earlier while I was at work, but didn't have a chance to check the forum before now. I'll keep sending you guys good thoughts.


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## DesireeM81 (Jun 14, 2014)

Awesome thank you!!! I'll try when I get home. He ate about 3 ml this morning (hard to measure in the eye dropper). I think after last night, he knows I'm not trying to poison him and is opening up even if slowly and only a little bit at a time. If he eats this gecko food then I will try slowly mixing in the carnivore care. I left him a buffet last night of wet food, raw food, chicken, kibble and CC and nothing was touched but he did drink so that's a plus.


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## shmurciakova (Sep 7, 2008)

*bad tooth.*

I hope you are still planning on seeing the regular vet on Tuesday. I think he certainly needs to be knocked out for a thorough exam. I would bet money there is something wrong with one or more of his teeth. I really would. Which is why he is not eating and could also be why he is so uncooperative. I think the runny poo, or whatever could be from stress of this entire situation. 
Please let us know what the vet says because I am very curious.
As for giving him meds....I don't know if any of them like it. I might try that nose trick you are doing because I currently have to give my poor Sola meds 2x/day. 
I hope it is nothing more serious than a tooth that needs to be pulled.
BTW, if it is a broken or cracked tooth, go ahead and have it out because that can easily lead to an abcess.
Best of luck,
Susan H.


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## DesireeM81 (Jun 14, 2014)

Honestly, I really don't think it's a bad tooth. My girl River had a bad tooth and she wasn't pooing awful nasty smelling green poo of death. It really seems like a bacterial infection. (Also, her tooth infection was cleared up with a course of antibiotics so this should help any infection as long as nothing is broken)

If this course of antibiotics doesn't help though, I will take him to my regular vet to get his teeth checked. 

He does love his amoxicillin though. He pops his head out for it and everything. Now if only they made an amoxicillin flavored food I would be all set. 

I did try the gecko food and he is a little less reluctant to eat than with the plain old CC. I'm going to try some pinkie mice again and some superworms tonight and getting some dubias tomorrow. I'm throwing any and all food at him right now.


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## DesireeM81 (Jun 14, 2014)

So I gave him River's mix of kibble last night which has the extra fatty kitten food from Fromm in it and HE ATE IT! Only a few pieces but thank heavens! I'm so excited. He also ate two pinkie mice last night and 1 and 1/2 superworms. He got more meds this morning and some gecko food (he's averaging 3 ml every few hours). Around lunch, I'm going to mix it in with some CC and give it to him. He seems to be on the mend. He also used his wheel at least for a little bit. 

Also my regular vet called (ER vet faxed them his records) and they said that as long as he continues to get better they don't need to see him but I am always welcome to make an appointment if I need too. :grin:

Also, bright green almost teal poop is the antibiotics right? It doesn't smell bad anymore and it is thickening up.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

That's great news!  I'm so glad to hear he's starting to eat more for you. Yes, antibiotics cause poop like that, so as long as the smell's starting to go away & he's starting to eat more, I wouldn't worry about it. I don't know if you've already thought about it, but probiotics can help calm his GI system now & after the course of antibiotics. Bene-Bac from the pet store or vet or acidophilus from the human pharmacy (near the vitamins). I hope he continues to improve for you!


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## DesireeM81 (Jun 14, 2014)

I didn't think of adding bene-bac but I can grab some from my local pet store. Might as well try to help him as much as possible. 

He ate a whole fuzzy mouse today, probably 4 times the size of the pinkies I had been feeding him. I was very proud of him!


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## DesireeM81 (Jun 14, 2014)

I am one sneaky momma!! 

A few weeks ago I render some duck fat while preparing foods for my ferrets. SO today I decided to see if Winter wanted some. I dipped a little spoon into it and he attacked it like crazy! So I added some to his food and when I put him back in his cage he started eating! Hoping this continues.


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## DesireeM81 (Jun 14, 2014)

:mrgreen:  :mrgreen:  :mrgreen:  :mrgreen:  :mrgreen:  Not sure how many smiley faces constitute how relieved I am. He's eating on his own. He ate some raw rabbit nature's variety instinct bites last night and most of his kibble and a hornworm. I am still covering it in duck fat for the time being and he is getting the fattier mix at the moment. Anything for my little man. Thank you everyone for the help and support and good wishes!


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## ashleyyy (Sep 22, 2014)

Yay Winter!  good job taking such excellent care of him!


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

Good job, Winter!  Great to hear, and I'm glad you can relax a little now. Give all of your crew a little lecture from me to stop worrying you for a while. :lol:


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