# Bloody and green feaces, vomits, vet can't find the cure?



## mark_pl (Dec 20, 2011)

Hello
I really need help. That post is very dificult for me (language reasons), but I hope that an everything will be understandable.

Our hedgehog Lilo has some major health problems for about 2-3 weeks now. Some time ago I wrote a post about the hedgehog, that might have eaten her babies in December - that was her and the actual start of problems.

So I'll try to explain everything steb by step:

1) End of December, time around Christmas - Lilo was pregnant, and she should have delivered, but after 2 days without leaving nest (typical for her when she had bread previous litters) she went out with some blood on her ear and on the quills. Probably she ate the hoglets, we will never know if they were dead or alive when she gave birth to them. 
She started to eat very small portions of food, but that wasn't very unusual. After a week we took her to vet to check if she doesn't have dead babies inside - he made an X-ray and it showed, that she was ok.

2) Start of February - she still hasn't start eating much, but other hedgehogs weren't eating a lot as well, so we were thinking, that is wintertime etc.

3) Half of February - start of real problems - for some time hedgehogs feaces were getting green, so we knew, that something was wrong, but very soon we found some gel with blood instead of grean feaces, so we wen't to the vet immediatly. We got to new vet, who was said to be a specialist in exotics. 
Unfortunatly, diagnostics are nearly imposible - our vet can't take blood sample from a hedgehog and doesn't have equipement for USG of such a small animal. Vet checked feaces samples and foulnd some coccidia eggs (but not many), so we started anti-parasite curation, but simultaniously vet started to make blind guesses first antibiotic (of wide activity) injections, physiological saline injections to hydrate Lilo, and painkillers (liquid), after first visit Lilo strted to vomit (she scared us death, we thouth, that she was dying), but in a moment it was over and she started to act normally.
For a while the curation seemed to help, she started to eat, drink and run in her wheel as fast as usually, or even faster. But... few days later - gel/blood feaces and no eating again.

4) Next visit to vet - another antibiotic. Vet said, that it's probably bowels inflamation, she gave us wet royal canin sensitive catfood, painkillers, and podered probiotic, and antihemorrhagic injection. On the first day she ate a lot of food, than she madewell formed green poo. But that was only one day, now she's getting second antibiotic for 4 days and she hasn't touched food for 3 days, so she hasn't eaten her probiotics as well. I'm not sure if she drinks water - water evaporates and I haven's actually seen Lilo drinking. Luckily for 4 days we haven't found any more bloody feaces, only green ones (still not normal). An hour ago I saw Lilo vomiting again - just some frothy saline like when she is anointing, but that wasn't it. And second examination showed no coccydia eggs in feaces.

What is strange - Lilo doesn't act like if she was dying, or suffering hard. She is strong, and when we let her on the floor she is playing around, running and biting my socks (she loves it). She doesn't leave her wheel, she sleeps inside it, wakes up about once a 30 minutes, takes a few steps iside the wheel and falls to sleep again (during daytime).

There is one vet I know a 100km away (so it's not a big deal to drive to him) who is famous as an exotics specialist, but our vet learned from him and keeps consulting the case with him, so he wouldn't do anything more than "our" vet does.

So I'm asking for help here - it's really sad to look at our favourite hedgehog suffering and to be unable to help her. And for sure her condition isn't bad enough to think about puting her to sleep.

Please, help me with a good piece of advice.


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## ashh51191 (Dec 23, 2011)

Personally i would just get a second opinion and go to that other vet. I'm not sure that I'd believe your vet when he says he learned from him unless he has some proof. Also the other vet may have some more specialized equipment if he's a really well known exotics vet. I hope everything works out, keep us updated!


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## LizardGirl (Aug 25, 2008)

I'm so sorry your little girl has to go through this. I can't say much other than to try to find a vet that can do more tests for you, maybe contact a local wildlife rescue who might have suitable equipment, or a zoo? 

You did a great job with your english, far better than many people who speak it as their first language!


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

Your English, grammar and punctuation is great so no need to apologize.

It would be best if you start syringe feeding her immediately. Lack of food can start FLD, fattly liver disease, which is very difficult and often impossible to recover from. You can also syringe her meds while syringing the food which makes them more appealing for her to eat and easier on her tummy.

I'm glad your vet checked her out for pregnancy related complications because that would have been my first suggestion.

Does she vomit soon after getting her meds? If so, it may be the taste of the meds, or it may be that she needs something in her tummy before getting the meds.

You wrote:


> For a while the curation seemed to help, she started to eat, drink and run in her wheel as fast as usually, or even faster. But... few days later - gel/blood feaces and no eating again.


 Was she finished the full dose of the meds when she started acting sick again? If so, perhaps the length of time given was not long enough and the issue returned after the meds were finished.

If she was still on the meds when she started to get sick again, I wonder if perhaps the meds weren't quite strong enough or weren't exactly the right ones so initially she started to get better. I've had that happen a couple of times that the original medication started the cure but then wasn't quite enough to completely cure.

If she is still pooping, she must be eating at least a little bit. You can count her kibble to see exactly how much she is eating. Also, leave some of her kibble in her bed so she doesn't have to get up to eat. Also, start syringe feeding her so you know she is getting enough.

Did your vet do an inhouse fecal culture? By inhouse, I mean one that the vet does right there at the vet clinic. If so, I would suggest having another done and have it sent out to a lab. Often the inhouse testing will show obvious infections or parasites, but the lab tests are far more sensitive and frequently will show up something the inhouse tests miss.

I don't know what more to suggest. Poor little girl. Sending prayers for her.


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## mark_pl (Dec 20, 2011)

Thank you for ansewring.

First question - sorry, but I don't uderstand what you mean by syringe feeding? I suppose, that you don't mean injections but fedding her with liquid food from the syringe? If I'm right - how to do it and what should I feed her with? 
It's quite hard to put something in hedgehogs mouth if the pet doesn't like it.
She got some "food" (aminoacids solution) injected few times by now (also today).



> I'm glad your vet checked her out for pregnancy related complications because that would have been my first suggestion.


Actually that was my idea, but to speak the truth - X-ray showed only that there were no dead fetuses inside her. I'm not sure about other possible pregnancy problems.

She vomits in random moments but not often. Most of her medicines are injected under skin, only painkiellers are added to her food, but as she doen't eat food she doesn't get medicine as well.



> Was she finished the full dose of the meds when she started acting sick again? If so, perhaps the length of time given was not long enough and the issue returned after the meds were finished.


Here you might be right... maybe changing medicines was wrong?

Vet did inhouse fecal culture (thanks for explaining, I wouldn't ever guess what it means), so we'll ask her to send sample to lab.

Oh, and there's one more thing, with whitch you probably could help. Vet suggested making antibiogram - probably great idea (we would stop guessing what antibiotic should be used), but the smear from Lilos anus is needed then. And that's the problem - neither I nor me wife and vet can find a way to stick something into the hedgehogs ass to get a sample (smear). Do you have any ideas? All the times we tried, we ended up with a quilled, huffing ball.


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## pickles17 (Feb 18, 2012)

Yes, you are correct. Syringe feeding means you take a syringe (with no needle on the end, just an opening at the end of the plastic) and you fill it with a powedered food substance mixed with water. When Moka (one of my hedgehogs who has now passed) had to be syringe fed the vet gave me "carnivore care" which is a type of powdered food. I imagine your vet's office would probably have something similar. What I found easiest was to wrap Moka up in a towel and rest him between my knees with my knees up. The towel helped to hold his arms down while syringe feeding as in my experience hedgehogs will use their arms to try and push away the syringe, resting him in the space between my legs just at my knees helped to secure him so he couldn't roll over and get away. Once I had him in this position I would gently push the end of the syringe at the corner of the right side of his mouth, this would usually prompt him to open his mouth a bit and then I would slowly push the food in and stopping periodically to let him catch up. At this point Moka was pretty sick and he didn't fight me, if your hedgehog is apt to fight you I would suggest perhaps trying to bathe them first so that they are a little more calm. Best of luck!


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## mark_pl (Dec 20, 2011)

Than you.
It's time for update and neews are good  
Afer long curation Lilo seams to be healty again! Syringe feeding was imposible, she was fighting all the time. She hasn't been eating for quite a while, but at last! Stupid thing... accidentaly my wife found out, that adding probiotic to food (we were ading it all the time, as the vet said, that it was very important) was a mistake - I don't know id it was masking the smell of food, or it tasted so bad, but when our dear hedgehog got some food withoud medicine she couldn't stop eating It was two days ago. Since then she keeps eating eagerly and her poo's are black/brown (some parts are still green but I hope it's gonna pass).

Thank you for advice and for being here for us

Greetings,
Mark


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## mark_pl (Dec 20, 2011)

Hi, some problems came back recently

Lilo acts like a health animal, she eats a lot and drinks more water than usually. An everything would be all right if not the poo. Sometimes it's normal, but sometimes it's extremely wird. It's a kind of white coloured mucus, sometimes alone and sometimes sticked to poo. Lilo produces really a lot of theese, but it doesn't seem to affect her anyway?
I took one of theese to the vet, who haven't ever seen anything like that, after some tests she said, that it's not a parasite and that it's full of bacteria. 
I'm adding a photo, haven't anyone seen anything like that?


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

Anything that irritates the intestines, such as bacteria, can cause mucous and blood. She possibly needs another round of antibiotic, and maybe a different one. Poor girl. I hope she gets all better soon.


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## mark_pl (Dec 20, 2011)

Ok... it's still bad.
The poop got a little better, but it's still loose and sometimes green. Actually - we have the same problem as described herehttp://hedgehogcentral.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=8238&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=smell+stink

It's overwhelming Please, help....


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

What food is she eating? I wonder if the food could be upsetting her stomach. Wellness in particular can cause stomach upset thought to be because it is a bit too rich.


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