# Prayers & Positive Thoughts For Charley



## Alastrina

I don't normally do this, so please bear with me.

If you are a religious person, please pray for Charley to make it through the night, and if you are not particularly religious please send positive thoughts and energy his way so that he can sustain his fight for his life.

He is so still and quiet with his eyes closed, which he has never done in front of me before, and I am very afraid for him. He is breathing normally, just appearing to be peacefully asleep.

If it is going to be his time to cross the Bridge tonight, please wish him a safe and smooth journey to the other side where he will be welcomed by all of our friends who have already gone.


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## JLF1995

oh, I am sorry if you loose him, but I send a warm prayer for him making a recovery and if not, a save travel.


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## shaelikestaquitos

I will definitely sending my best thoughts, energy and wishes toward you and Charley's way <3


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## kat

i will be praying and sending good thoughts for you and Charley.


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## shortnerdy

Sheldon and I keeping him close to our hearts. Please keep us updated.


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## moothecow

Oh no oh no... I will keep Charley in my thoughts tonight and be checking back for updates. HUGS.


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## Quinn

My thoughts are with you and Charley. Keep us updated.


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## Hissy-Fit-Hazel

This made me cry....  I'm so sorry. It's so terrible for someone who loves their pet so dearly to have to stuggle so in fear & so much hope trying to keep them going. I think of all those creeps who don't even want their hedgies and wish that sort of hurt could be deflected on them....sigh. 

Sending healing thoughts to your baby...& hugs to you! You are a good mama!


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## Lilysmommy

Oh Alastrina....ALL of my good thoughts, wishes, and energy is going towards Charley tonight. Lots of hugs and love to both of you from Lily and I. <3


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## cylaura

Oh Charley!  Sending SO many good thoughts and well wishes your way for tonight... it will be okay, and we are all here for you.


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## Alastrina

I had to take Charley out of his crate just now to warm up his SnuggleSafe because it had gone cold while I was putting my son to bed, and when I put him back in the crate (he is in a hedgie bag) I petted his forehead with my finger and he licked me a few times, almost like little kisses, because he wasn't trying to nip me at all. Then he laid his head back down and made the quiet little popping sound he makes when he is comfortable and content. It is breaking my heart to see him this way, and I told him that all I want is for him to be happy, whether that means staying here with me or crossing over the Bridge. I told him I would miss him and be sad for a little while, but that it was more important for him to be whole and healthy again no matter where he had to go to do it.

I can't stop crying, and I wonder if I did the right thing Saturday by trying to bring him back to me instead of letting him go. The vet said he had a chance and I seized onto that hope like a life preserver. It is the hope that is painful right now because I want him to recover so badly; it is entirely selfish of me, I need my best friend and a part of me doesn't want to let him go no matter what. 

I am going to try and feed him again in an hour or so, at that time it will have been 3 hours or so since the last try, and he ate a little and drank between 2 and 3 ml of pedialite. I also gave him one more dose of Baytril at that time on the vet's recommendation until I can pick up the Clavamox tomorrow. I hope it is not upsetting his system too badly, I wanted to make sure the symptoms he developed today not to take hold but I fear that the Baytril will do what it did before and upset his poor little system beyond what it can tolerate. 

I love you Charley, sleep well a little while longer little one.


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## ReginasMommy

Oh no, I am so incredibly sorry. Charley is a beautiful, wonderful boy, and I think that him giving you those kisses is his way of telling you how much he loves and appreciates you and how much he knows that you love him. I will pray for you and Charley. You are a great hedgie momma, and I am sending hugs your way.


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## Alastrina

Thank you everyone, I really appreciate your thoughts and prayers for Charley. I just want him to be happy and whole again, because right now he is not and he deserves to be. He is a wonderful friend and I am very lucky to know him because he has always brought so much joy into my life even in times that were very dark.There is one fluffy little ball of spines that will always hold a special place in my heart, and that is Charley.


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## sayhedgehog

I am so sorry for you and Charley both. It's so, so hard to watch your much loved little ones when something like this happens.

Sending much love and light to you both. <3


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## Rainy

Oh, my heart breaks for you. I am sitting in a puddle right now.  I'm praying for you, Charley and your family. I'm so sorry that you have to go through this. It is so difficult to lose such a sweet, dear friend. You have been so good to him and he knows this. Many animals, when it is there time, go off alone to pass over the bridge. This is a testiment to how much he loves and trusts you that he would take comfort in you instead of retreating. You have given him and wonderful life. I'm praying that he will heal, but if it's his time, I pray that he goes peacefully in the arms of his mommy that loves him so.

Sending Harvey-Hugs to you both!

Please keep us updated on how things are going.


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## PJM

Please, please get better Charley!! Please.


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## hanhan27

I'm so sorry that things have gotten so bad. I hope everything goes smoothly no matter what the outcome. You are both in my thoughts and my heart, and I'm thinking every good thought I have your way.

Big hugs to Charley and his wonderful mama. <3


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## Hedgieonboard

I'm so sorry about this, I hope he gets better. Sending prayers and positive energy for Charlie.


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## panda

<3<3 hugs, love & healing thoughts from me Norma and Maggie.


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## Littlefootsmama

This is so heartbreaking... I was so happy to see that Charley was starting to do better. I will certainly send him and you my prayers and keep you both in my thoughts. I wish the both of you the very best.

Comforting hugs..


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## Alastrina

Keep the good thoughts coming! 

Charley is still very weak, but his breathing has evened out (more deep, slow breaths as opposed to deep quicker breaths) and he was able to eat about 8ml of food/water mix (I fed at least 9ml but lots wound up on Charley's chest and face instead, I am now an expert on wiping a hedgie's face with a napkin) and at least 2ml of pedialite (gave 3ml+ but again, some loss) for his last feeding! He was also able to use the bathroom once.

He is camped out on his SnuggleSafe and due for another feeding/checkup in a few hours. I have serious amounts of work to do, so I will be up to check on him for a little while longer.

If nothing else positive comes from this, I know he is warm and safe with a full tummy.


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## Tasha

Sending all my love, hugs and positive thoughts for you and Charley. Keep the updates coming. xxxxxxxxxxx


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## Alastrina

Another feeding down, and Charley is still fighting towards recovery. He was able to take between 8 and 10 ml of pedialite and food mix over about an hour. He's wiped out but seemed to have more energy than a few hours ago after the last feeding. I'm about to pass out at the keyboard, so more updates after I've caught some more ZZzz's


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## Nancy

I'm glad he'es still fighting. That is great news.  

If I might make a suggestion. Try using a heating pad rather than a snuggle safe. Snuggle safes start out really warm and then gradually cool down. It's better when they are sick to have the consistent even temperature of a heating pad. I know it can be difficult in the US to find heating pads that don't shut off. Up here the ones we get that don't shut off are made by Sunbeam.


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## Nancy

Would you mind giving a run down of Charley's symptoms (all of them), right from start to finish from when he was sick a while back to present. Include time frames/dates and treatments given. His symptoms are all over the place and maybe with it written out in one spot, someone might have some ideas.


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## TeddysMommy

Sending warm thoughts from all of us here <3 Keep on fighting Charley!


GET BETTER CHARLEY


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## shetland

Prayers for my beautiful Charley.


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## Alastrina

Nancy,

I will write up a more detailed and concise list of his symptoms shortly and post it to a new topic.

I have a Sunbeam heating pad with four settings; I looked up the temperatures for the settings on the Sunbeam website and it says that *the Low setting should be approximately 110 degrees F, will this be OK for Charley* if there are a layer or two of liners in between him and the pad? That SnuggleSafe gets pretty darn hot so I keep it underneath his liners for the most part.

Unfortunately the heating pad shuts off after two hours, but that should not be a problem during the day when I can monitor it, and I will use the SnuggleSafe at night so it can last longer than 2 hours. I wish it had a 4 or 5 hour time limit as that is what I give between night feedings so I can sleep and Charley can rest and I would be able to take care of resetting it when I got up to take care of him.

I have a link to a really nice heating pad I was considering getting for Charley and have found a few others as well, I will post a topic with the links to get some feedback on which pad would be best for long-term use for Charley as he will likely need the pad in his sleeping area. Most of the animal heating pads I have seen do not have auto shut off on a timer (some outdoor models do turn on and off according to ambient temperature) but as far as the human ones go they are not common in the US, not that I have been able to find anyway.

Time to go love on Charley and see if he's interested in taking some more food, so I will report back again soon.


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## Nancy

You can wrap the heating pad in a towel, or towels as need be and put it under the cage. If you leave a thermometer on top of his liner, it will tell you how hot it gets to. Ideally, what you want is something that is just warm to the touch because laying on it for extended periods of time, it is going to feel warmer than a quick touch.


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## Alastrina

The heating pad is on and sandwiched between two layers of a cotton quilt-style blanket I use as a liner for Charley; it feels slightly warmer than the blanket itself, so we will see how it works for Charley. I laid the heating pad sideways across the back of a small wire cage (think the collapsible wire crates for dogs) with an equal amount of space across the front with no heat and just blanket in case he gets too warm and wants to move to a cooler spot. 

I've been keeping him in the bedroom with me so I can hear him in case he needs me (sometimes he gets stuck on his side and can't get righted to keep moving so I help him turn around) but I think he might be better off in the living room where I have him right now in the cage. I have it insulated with another blanket that also blocks out the lights so it is relatively dark inside the cage. The cage is then up off the floor about 1/3 of the way up the wall (so about 3 feet) and away from any drafts from fans or heating/cooling vents. It's also conveniently near an outlet for the heating pad. There is a little more room for him to move and help himself get around and the sides are padded by the blanket/liner so he cannot bump up against the bars by accident.

*sigh* I'm just a total worry-wort. My MIL can't get back from town soon enough, she's picking up the Clavamox, some more Hills A/D, a few more syringes and a tube of Revolution for later use (I'm thinking Saturday if he does well on the Clavamox and continues eating).

I'll try to get the run down of his illness and symptoms up soon, this week is going to be murder playing catch-up, but if not having to do it this way meant not having Charley, I wouldn't change a thing about what I'm doing right now.


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## SaltAndExtraPepper

In regards to heating pads that don't shut off, I have one that my dad bought from Amazon... he gave it to me for Carlos when he rehomed his cat.

"K&H Pet Bed Warmer" (I have a medium sized one)

"- 4-watt dual thermostat heats to 102 degrees F when pet is present
- Stays 12 to 15 degrees above room temperature when pet is not in bed
- Recommended for year-round indoor use; plugs in to any household outlet "

I have it under Carlos's cage (wrapped in a towel) so that there is always a strip of warmth for him to either use with constant access, or easily avoid at his choice. Since the pad is at 102F when the pet is present, and it's under the cage, it's always on. And, through the towel and cage bottom, the cage floor is *definitely* cooler than 102!! It's a little warm to the touch, and with bedding and a blanket over the spot, Carlos can snuggle in and get toasty, or snooze elsewhere to cool off. During the winter months when I first got him, he hardly ever left the thing, and this summer he's been opting for a cooler spot under his wheel. It gives me 24/7 piece of mind, though, since it is the only feasible heat source I can use in my warm climate. Just putting that out there. Apologies if I sounded like an infomercial just now, but I seriously love the thing.

Oh and here's a link just in case: http://www.amazon.com/Pet-Warmer-Watts- ... pd_sim_k_1

Alastrina, reading about Charley has been nothing short of an emotional roller coaster. I am so sorry for everything you two have gone through, but I am also so happy for all your triumphs and determined fighting spirit. I'm sure there are plenty of hedgies out there who could only dream for an owner like you. I am positively certain that Charley loves and appreciates you and all you have done, and are doing. If you feel a warm draft, it is probably the positive energy swarming to you from me and the rest of HHC.


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## Alastrina

Thanies ^_^

I have actually had that pad recommended to me and am gathering together an Amazon order since I need a few other things, namely feeding and medicine syringes b/c Charley is a bit picky and doesn't like the one the vet gave me, and the one I have right now has a sticky plunger despite my cleaning it so if I don't watch it I can shoot mushy food half-way across the living room with no trouble at all >_< I'm about to go boil everything and wash it for good measure, see if I can salvage it...

I am happy to report that the heating pad I was able to find at home is working perfectly; the surface of the liner covering the pad is slightly warm to the touch, so it is giving him a medium amount of constant heat as long as I watch my timer (the pad has a 2 hour auto shut off, but all I have to do is go push the button again for 2 more hours of heat). Charley seems to be holding steady, and we're starting his Clavamox tonight at his next feeding. It seems like the Baytril dose last night helped him a little; less mucous from his little nose. 

He is still weak and tired, but seems to be holding in there. I've upped his pedialite and water and kept his food steady. In between anti-biotic doses he gets some Benebac powder in his food, and in a few days hopefully my new bottle of Booster will be here too and I can start adding that back in, it has never hurt and sometimes I think it has really helped.

*grin* Thank you, though I'm sure Charley's appreciation is grudging only because the path to it involves several syringes which he hates. I feel so bad for him when he's wriggling away from me and I have to pick him back up, swaddle him in his blankie again and poke his little lips apart with the syringe tip. I just can't help myself, I'm such a softie!

Now that I have my timer (actually a really basic tablet device I bought in Germany that really only does a half dozen useful things X_x) I feel more confident working and getting chores done b/c I don't have to worry about what time it is and how long until I need to check on things. 

Thank you everyone for your positive thoughts, prayers, and words of encouragement, they mean the world to me and I know Charley can feel the love just as much as I can. I doubt myself like I'm sure any parent of children with four legs or less does, I just have to keep reminding myself that if it is possible, I am doing it and that is okay. It is hard to resist the urge to be a super-human


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## shortnerdy

Yay Charley!! I know he"ll pull through! Keep the updates a'comin


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## Alastrina

*Short 4am update*

:? I find caring for my boys therapeutic even though I think trying to cavort and get into Mac's cage to get his wheel and bowls at 3am without waking anyone up did something to my back *shrug*

Anyway, keeping this short:

Charley is doing good, staying stable. I think I have the heating pad to thank for this, def continuing to use it in the morning again, for now he is on his SnuggleSafe so he can at least have some warmth lasting more than 2 hours, I don't want him to get a chill.

He ate almost all of his "meal" this past time (1:30 to 2:45) including 4.5ml of water, 5ml of pedialite, and at least 6ml of food. I have found alternating food and pedialite every .5ml or so distracts him for his dislike of pedialite and lets me get more in him. Yay!

He also managed to have boy time >_> So I guess he feels OK?

*grin*

Time for me to sleep now!


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## Nancy

Yay! Glad he is feeling good enough for boy time. :lol: 

You can mix the pedialite with his food to help disguise the taste and then you won't have to keep switching back and forth. I have found with the majority of them, when the syringe is removed to switch or reload, they start to loose interest so keeping things going tends to work best, at least for most of my past and present gang. :lol: Worth a try and see if it helps.


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## cylaura

Don't have much too add, because you're doing such an AMAZING hedgie-mom job, but: yayyyyyyy Charley!! Keep going on the road to recovery!


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## Alastrina

Thankies! What's a little sleep deprivation between family?  

I'm going to have to go find some energy drinks or something, I don't think I've had more than 20 ours of sleep so far this week and it's starting to make me groggy; I have to have the music on at night when I get up to feed Charley so I can sing to him and keep myself awake, otherwise I catch myself trying to cup him against my chest and fall asleep at the kitchen table ^_^

Charley is such a little trooper, and I think the Clavamox is going a little better for him than the Baytril; he doesn't act as lethargic as he did on Baytril. We'll see how it goes for his little tummy, I have yet to see any evidence of status there. He even laid there and let me trim his front nails this morning, I had done his back feet a few days ago but didn't want to stress him out. It had been almost 2 weeks since his last trim so they were getting a bit curved and I don't want him to have any issues walking if he feels like trying it.

We get in what I cal "walking practice" in between syringes of food; he toddles around on the towel I have laid out on the table for traction and protection from elimination or spilled food for a minute or two with me holding him up. He can rest on all fours and stay upright for about 10 seconds before he gets tired and slouches over to lay down, but this is up from not being able to do this at all so it is good news!

Walking around also gets things moving and helps him eliminate; I am not sure if there is a way to stimulate them to help them pass a stool? He's not having trouble at the moment but I want to make sure it doesn't get that way either. I am guessing it would involve a little bit of a belly rub, but how or where I do not know.

Time to go do something constructive before the next feeding time, perhaps get something to eat myself now that other people are awake... after all cooking and being sleepy do not mix well, I distinctly remember burning a pot of potatoes I was trying to boil... :lol:


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## Alastrina

More good news for Mr. Charley!

He is doing good on the Clavamox, it has affected his stool but he is still eliminating so I count that as a good thing as on the Baytril he was passing very small thin pieces.

He is also doing very well on the heating pad, I just have to watch it during the day. And I will be able to do whatever I need to do in a few days b/c my son starts school on the 15th ^_^ I also just picked up a full time (20-30 hours a week) job at $7.40 an hour so I will have enough to build up my e-fund and get anything the boys need like their cages built.

His past feeding he ate EVERYTHING in his bowl and all of the pedialite ^____^


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## Hissy-Fit-Hazel

Yaaaa...nice to hear he is improving a bit


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## Rainy

so glad he's doing better! Still praying for you, Charley and your family. Hang in there. Try to get some rest. HUGS!


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## panda

Sounds like he is doing better and getting stronger! So glad to hear it!


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## Alastrina

We're down for the night, at least till his next feeding at 1am. Poor little hedgie-man, he got his anti-biotic dose for the evening and was almost immediately "leave me alone I am sick" which I understood and helped him eat one more ml of food mix before putting him back to bed. 

He also lost at least 7 quills and I can see at least 6 of the red puss pockets on his back and skirt line. I am waiting until Saturday to see if he is improving on the anti-biotic to give him the Revolution; I want to give it to him now, but I see the wisdom in what you all said and the vet confirmed it was a good idea to hold off a few days and see how he was doing, I just hate seeing them on him.

Since he got his anti-biotic and was totally uninterested in food I only managed to get 2ml of pedialite and 2ml of food in him for this feeding. He's been eating well during his other feedings so I suppose this isn't as bad as not eating for 2 or more feedings. He did eliminate twice today; nasty and green again but in more normal quantities which is good. I take this to mean the anti-biotic is upsetting his system but not nearly as bad as the Baytril was.

I need to go get my son to bed and see if I can get my work done and get in bed myself for once; I always wind up staying awake to get things done and then feeling lousy the day after. Doesn't help that I'm still sick with the darn cold I picked up earlier >_<

:roll: 

So good thoughts for Charley and cross your fingers with me that he eats more at his next feeding in a few hours. Hugs for everyone and their hedgies!


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## shetland

Sleep well little Charley. I love you.


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## moothecow

I'm glad he's keeping steady! Wishing him wellness and recovery soon. You're doing such an incredible job taking care of him, you know. And thanks for updating us on how he's doing!

Not sure if I missed this in your posts above, but do you give him antibiotics first and then some food? I found that what helped Misha a lot when he was on Baytril was to give him a syringe-full of food first, and then the antibiotic. When the antibiotic goes into an empty tummy it's more likely to cause upset. If you're already doing that, do ignore my rambling! But if not, consider it, it might make Charley's poop less green and icky. 

Goodnight and good wishes to you and Charley.


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## Alastrina

Oh yes, I've learned the hard way that food first makes all the difference, I think the first dose of meds I ever gave Charley was actually mixed in with some baby food, and he nearly tossed it up all over himself. So I try to get a few ml's of food in him and maybe a syringe of water or pedialite ready, give the antibiotic, and then help him wash it down and follow up immediately after the fluids with more food so at least things are in his stomach other than just the meds.

I was giving him half his daily dose of Booster during meds feedings to help coat his throat and stomach to keep the meds from lingering in his mouth or throat, but I ran out the other day and am awaiting a new bottle hopefully this week or Monday. Ashley (Rivoli) suggested giving the Booster this way to help ease the meds down and make them easier to tolerate, and as long as you give the Booster a chance to cool a bit in the syringe and test it against your wrist like you would baby formula or any other hot beverage it is safe to give this way.

My sweet sweet baby. He is looking better than he was even a few days ago and that makes me happy and relieves some of my worry that I am going to lose him. I'm curious about something he did tonight; while we were feeding, someone came up beside me and startled him and he curled up partially and put his quills up, but instead of a huff, out came this squeak/honk sound... He still has a very slight runny nose, and I am wondering if this is a symptom of the URI? I'm considering calling the vet in the morning, and I might anyway just to get his thoughts on how Charley is doing so far.

Charley is taking his fluids well, so dehydration is no longer as much of a concern as it was. His skin snaps back into place immediately when pulled up and it is a very fluid motion, not a slow reformation of the original shape. 

Any tips for bathing a hedgie that cannot stand up? He is getting a very dirty chin and I want to give him a foot/tummy bath in addition to wiping him down with a damp washcloth to make sure he doesn't get any nasties, esp with the mites sores on his skirtline they could easily get dirty.


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## panda

i would probably try using a damp cloth with some soap then you could either rinse using a tiny cup, i use a listerine lid i cleaned out.. perfect rinse cup for hedgies.. or use a damp cloth to remove soap... but maybe Nancy has some ideas better than that.


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## ShutUpAndSmile

I'm happy to hear he's feeling a little better. He's in my thoughts and prayers. <3 Me and Opal send tons of hedgie hugs. <3
Congrats on the job. 
And try and catch up on some sleep. <3 You deserve it you're such a great hedgie mom.


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## Alastrina

I've done it!

The magic combo for feedings with meds:

Need: 3 1ml syringes, two small bowls, baby food mix, water, pedialyte, meds

Draw up meds in one syringe, set aside. Draw up 1ml each of pedialyte and food mix in the remaining two syringes. Administer 1ml of food, draw up and give one more ml of food, then one ml of pedialyte, alternate until down to last syringe of each. Give meds now. Wash down the meds with the food and pedialyte, clean off very messy hedgie.

This worked for Charley this morning and he was able to eat and drink everything I had out for him and take his meds with less obvious upset to his tummy during the feeding. Dippy hedgie mommy spilled everything and had to mix it up again, but I think he'll forgive me since I'm going to get new flavors of baby food today; he's been eating nothing but banana for his fruit for a few days and I'll bet he's tired of it by now being fed 5+ times a day *grin*

I'll sleep one day, for now there are more important things to do like take care of Charley, homework, and make-some-money work. If nothing else I can sleep some after Monday when my son starts school, nothing says I can't come home from dropping him off and take a nap. ^_^


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## rivoli256

YAY! this is all GREAT news!        

to answer your question about bathing the topsy-turvy hedgie...easiest is probably the washcloth. however, i found it did not always do the job & i had to wipe harder than i wanted.
so, i started the water in the kitchen sink & got it running softly & then got it adjusted to a hedgie safe temp. not as easy as it sounds. then i stopped the sink as a precaution. i held Atty in one hand & slowly "ran him through" the water - obviously leaving out his head. i flipped him in my hand so both sides got wet. i managed to squirt a bit of hedgie-safe cleanser on one hand, get a bit of water, lather & then massaged him with the soapy hand. i did belly first, then back. i then rinsed him thoroughly as above. i did a flax rinse too - but i know you can't do one for Charley right now.

i think the main difference will be you may need to be able to put him down between wetting, soaping, & rinsing. Atty weighed between 191-245g, so he always fit in my hand. Charley's a bit bigger.   having a soft towel or blankie near by could be the answer.

good luck & HUGS.


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## Alastrina

Yup, it's a two-handed job; I might see if my hubby won't mind standing in with a towel to hold him while I need to use the other hand to get soap or to massage in the suds before I rinse, his hands are bigger than mine by half ^_^

Thankies for the tips! He's got boy time leftovers stuck in his belly fur and they're pinching I think... he's still too wiggly to cut them out (not that I would I don't think, scary) and if I pulled them out that would be awful now that they're dry. 

I think the anti-biotic might still be on his tummy from his last feeding, he wasn't too enthused about this one we just got done with and is now resting on his heating pad after taking a few ml's each of food and pedialyte. Liiiiitle bitty stool and a quarter-sized puddle of pee; less than last time but still more than before. 

I worry about him... alot. *sigh*

I need a nap, maybe after I get some more work done and turn it in...


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## hanhan27

Just wanted to pop in and say that I'm happy to hear that your little man is doing a bit better. He's a trooper.  Hugs to both of you. 

P.S. I dreamed about Charley last night. He boarded a bus with a duffel bag in hand (paw :lol: ) to come visit me and Mildred. They fell in love. I hope in the next dream, they have itty bitty hedgehog bagies


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## Nancy

I'm glad Charley is hanging in there and showing improvement. Every little bit of improvements puts him on his way to recovery.  

I tend not to give full baths to a sick one unless absolutely necessary and they are dirty to the point of it would start to irritate their skin. Baths are traumatic for most hedgehogs at the best of times and not ideal when they are sick and in a weakened condition. There is also a risk of hedgie catching a chill.

Instead, I do spot cleaning after every feeding. Either using a dry face cloth or dampened, I clean off the messy areas as best I can and while the food is still wet it comes off easily. I'm sure it goes through my gangs head after a feeding that "oh gosh, here she comes again with that &%*($# towel". Of course it isn't a perfect cleaning, but less stressful and less tiring on a sick one than a bath.


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## Alastrina

Hedgie babies! In a perfect world; Mr. Charley has a mysterious past, so I can't let him have kiddos in reality, but fantasy is another mater entirely. I hope the little ones have his pinto spots!

I know Charley has a special dislike in his little heart for paper towels, both moist and dry. I cut full size ones into squares and use them for his feedings, piling them off to the side when they are too damp with food to use any longer and continually cleaning his face to keep te food from getting in his eyes, nose, or running down his front since it's so watery.

Mostly I'm worried about his face, chest, and stomach b/c of the food, boy time residue, and since he cannot walk I know he's getting his leavings on himself, at least the urine and that can irritate skin. I had to give him a lower-body bath about a week ago because he had an accident all over himself and I couldn't get it off with just a rag so I had to let him soak for a bit but I held him up with one hand and massaged with the other. He's just a big boy and I have small hands.

I'll try keeping at him with a wash rag, because you're right, it would be bad for him to catch a chill right now.


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## Alastrina

:mrgreen: 

He ate all of his food and drank all but a ml or two of hid pedialyte ^____^

It took about 90 minutes, but mostly because I let him rest for 10 mins or so every 20 so he could have the energy to swallow. You know you're tried when you've never met food you didn't like but you can't even open your jaws for a liquid diet. 

Time for me to go do some chores since I've been online for most of the day aside from a grocery store run and there are liners to be washed! Well, and human laundry too since we are not fortunate enough to have quills and soft furry tummies


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## panda

yay Charley! you both are doing awesome


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## infamousrenie

I'm so glad Charley is doing better, Katie! Brillo, Comet, Rob and I are VERY happy to hear this! 

Keep on troopin', Charley! <3


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## Alastrina

Charley scared the bejeezus out of me this morning about 4:30am, I was getting up to take care of his feeding, and he was sneezing and snorting all over the place and just couldn't stop. No problems breathing, he just couldn't stop long enough to eat or drink anything. I took him out of his crate and laid down on the couch with him elevated on my chest to keep his head up higher than the rest of his body and we laid that way for a good two hours before I felt comfortable putting him back to bed in his cage.

When I got up at 7:30 then, he was sleeping peacefully and once woken up was more than happy to make up for lost time and nom on his food and water until the bowls were almost empty. 

Needless to say I was freaked out, I felt insanely guilty because I had gone to bed early and given myself an extra 30mins before the next feeding so rest in and figured his fit was my bad mommy punishment. He was a little unnerved too I think, because he climbed up on me and curled up against my neck like I was a life preserver. 

*yawn*

So we had a scare, but are good here!


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## Quinn

Im so glad that he's still eating and drinking! Thanks for the updates I am following closely to them.


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## PJM

I'm so glad to hear his progress! Keep it up Charley-boy!!


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## ThePliny

Yay Charley! Atta boy. No more scaring your mom allowed.


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## shetland

I keep repeating myself. I love you Charley.


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## Alastrina

Our past two feedings have not gone well, he seems to be losing the will to eat, and almost to move in any way. 

I will wait a few more days before I make the call, but I am considering helping him cross. He has been unable to eat on his own for the most part and move under his own power for over a week and does not seem to be getting better in those respects to where he would be able to resume these activities. The past two days he has woken up sneezing and has largely lost interest in food. He has also become unresponsive in the last 12 hours or so, not really opening his eyes and having to be encouraged to swallow even with food or fluids in his mouth.

I do not think he is enjoying a good quality of life right now and that is my primary concern. I am calling the vet to ask for another phone consult and see when would be a good time to bring Charley in for another check-up and if the vet believes Charley will not be able to recover his appetite or mobility then I will give him one last gift and help him shed his physical form in favor of one free of pain or disease.

I love Charley more than almost anything, he is my best friend. I feel as though I have been selfish trying to keep him with me when he is unable to do much at all including move out of the area if he eliminates.

*sigh*

Charley and I have both fought with all we have. It's saddening and frustrating to know that even after all we have been through together we have not been able to beat this.

I believe Charley might have had some kind of stroke; he behaves much like a human who has experienced a stroke. He cannot manipulate or control his limbs, he cannot eat/chew on his own, and he almost does not seem to recognize me or know where he is or what is going on around him, which is unusual for a prey animal.

I have not given up on him, not by a long shot. I am simply looking out for my little one's best interests even if it means his joining the ranks of our beloved departed friends.


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## hanhan27

The decision to help an animal cross is a great responsibility that I believe should only be given to people who truly have their furry family member's best interest at heart - which we all know you do. I understand the struggle you're going through. It's hard being the one who ultimately decides whether your pet lives longer, or passes peacefully. Who are we to judge when it's time for an animal to cross? All we can do is listen to what they tell us and trust that we know our animals better than anyone else. 

You both fought hard - if you and your vet decide that Charley's life will be a struggle from here on out, you won't be giving up on him, you'll simply be helping him go over the bridge into wonderful hedgie bliss (mealies galore, 24K gold diamond-embedded wheels, no baths, etc  ). You are more concerned with his happiness than your own, which really does make you a wonderful hedgie mama. Just remember that. Milly and I send our love and peaceful, happy thoughts. <3


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## Hedgieonboard

I'm sorry to hear about him not wanting to eat again. I'll be praying for him and I know you will know what the right thing is when that time comes. Sending lots of hugs and prayers your way, I know how hard this must be


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## Alastrina

hanhan27 said:


> Who are we to judge when it's time for an animal to cross? All we can do is listen to what they tell us and trust that we know our animals better than anyone else.


This is it exactly. I am very conflicted but in my heart I know that this could be a decision I will have to make for the best interests of any of my animals. I have to be strong enough to let them go if it is their time, or if they become so ill or in so much pain that they are unable to do more than merely exist. And that is what Charley is doing right now in my eyes, because he is just lying there...


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## PJM

I'm so, so sorry that you are all going through this right now. I wish with all my heart that there was something we could do. I know you will do what's best for Charley. Poor, sweet little man. He will always have a piece of my heart.


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## fracturedcircle

oh Alastrina, i do understand how hard this is, because of my Lancik.


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## shetland

You are so wonderful to Charley and he knows you love him. You and he understand each other. He will tell you and you will know if it is what is best for him. It is not a terrible thing for Charley. When it is his time, he will wake up healthy and young all ready to start a new life. You have given each other a wonderful time. Maybe there will be more time, maybe it will be grand memories. Either way, he will always be with you.


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## Alastrina

*hugs for everyone* 

You're right, he will be able to let me know. 

I'm so confused about what to do. He is up one day and down the next, and each down is getting worse and worse; last night I really did not expect him to make it.

Now, he is sitting in my lap after taking in almost his whole feeding, he can huff again without sneezing, and he tried to bite my finger! This is great progress for him, heck e can even almost ball up right now, and is breathing easy and resting comfortably. 

Last night he wouldn't even open his eyes hardly, now they're bright and alert and he's looking around at sounds and lowering his visor when I try to touch his face.

Is it possible to feed him too often?

Can the anti-biotic really mess him up that badly and if so, can I give both doses during the day instead of morning and night? Like say morning and supper instead so he is not so down overnight?

This is my first time really taking care of a sick hedgie and I'm trying not to make any mistakes that will hurt Charley...


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## Nancy

Yes they can go up and down when ill, just like we have good moments and bad when sick.

Twice daily meds need to be given 12 hours apart for them to work the best. The antibiotic is going to bother him more if given too close together than it will if given at proper times. Am I remembering correctly that he is on Clavamox or is that someone else? If so, Clavamox is generally not too harsh on the tummy. 

No, you can't feed him too often and decide how soon the next feeding will be based on how much he eats. Often when they are sick they do better with frequent small amounts but I never limit how much they can have per feeding.


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## Alastrina

He is on Clavamox twice daily. It irritates his tummy but not nearly as much as the Baytril did; I have noticed that he loses most of his energy and desire to do anything after his doses of meds. The run will be over in a few days, so perhaps this symptom will go away when the meds do.

I had meant to say can I feed him too often, not too much in amount. And would it be detrimental to him to feed him more before and after I sleep for the night so that we can go 6 hours between that particular pair of feedings? He is not interested in eating after the meds dose if it has only been a few hours prior, and I am getting very short on sleep (I feel terrible saying that).

I would feeding him and give him more fluids before and after I slept, and then give him food & fluids every 4 hours while I am awake during the day...


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## fracturedcircle

a friend has a long-eared hedgie who presumably underwent a bad stroke years ago. he got a nootropic med for children (kids with cerebral palsy would take it) and a general homeopathic med for a month. it is unknown what helped, but he's doing great.


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## Alastrina

I don't think Charley is going to be able to pull through this one.

He hasn't wanted to eat at all since this time last night; I have been trying every 3-4 hours to give him food and fluids but he won't swallow and putting more than a drop in his mouth at a time makes him cough it back up regardless.

He seems at peace, quiet and resting unless I bother him to move him or try to feed him. He won't hardly open his eyes either, just resting his head on his SnuggleSafe which is cool but in the cage inside a snuggle sack and he is using it as a kind of pillow to elevate his head, I've been propping him up this way to help him breathe through the moisture in his nose.

He's making the little popping sound of contentment when I hold him and he's letting me stroke his face and back without protest.

I have no words.


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## PJM

I'm so sorry. Both you & Charley will be in my thoughts & prayers & dreams tonight. 

All we can hope for is to be loved. And Charley is truly loved.


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## fracturedcircle

PJM said:


> All we can hope for is to be loved. And Charley is truly loved.


ditto.


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## sayhedgehog

Sending much love and light to you and Charley both.

I know how awful it is to deal with something like this. My first hedgie, Quillson, had what we believed to be WHS (never had a necropsy to be sure). It hurts so badly and is so confusing.

You have been doing such a wonderful, loving job with him and I'm sure he know just how much you love him.


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## Alastrina

Thank you everyone, right now I don't feel much of anything but sadness, but it is good to know that others are thinking of Charley and I.


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## panda

sending good energy your way. lots of love to you and Charley from us!


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## ReginasMommy

Oh, poor, sweet Charley. He is so lucky to have you. I'm sending love and hugs to you both.


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## Littlefootsmama

I've been rooting for Charley every step of the way; it kills me to know that he is having such a hard time with this, but you also need to know that you are doing everything in your power for that little guy. You are such a wonderful, Mom! 

I will keep both of you in my thoughts and prayers --- hoping for the best! Just follow your heart and let Charley guide you. 

*hugs and lots of hedgie love!


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## ThePliny

Poor darling Charley. Pliny and I are sending bucket loads of prayers your way. You have done such an amazing job helping him through this. I hope the little man pulls through.


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## Alastrina

So far Charley is still with me, but I do not think it will be long. He will not open his eyes or move if he rolls over trying t get around; I found him laying on his back on the heating pad this morning...

He is still not showing any signs of pain or discomfort so I will be keeping him at home unless he begins to show signs of those things, and then we will make a trip to the vet to help him cross. Right now I don't want to put him through that when he can pass comfortably (well, relatively) at home.

I am praying that he falls asleep and when he wakes up again he'll be on the other side of the Bridge, happy and healthy once again.


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## SaltAndExtraPepper

I am so sorry  That is heartbreaking to hear... You have done so much for him, and you worked so hard and never gave up. Neither did he, in my opinion. The fact of the matter is, when the time comes, you can only borrow so much time...

Reading all that you've done just in the past weeks assures me--and everyone else surely-- that Charley could not have been in better hands for his whole life, even in the end.  You are so strong to be able to let him go the most comfortable way possible. Many hugs from me and some loving quilly huffs from Carlos


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## Rainy

Oh Alastrina, you have fought with all you have, yet continue to fight for your little Charley. You are a wonderful mommy to him. No one could ask for a better home for him. You have blessed him with your compassion, love, stamina, and commitment. You have blessed me with these things too. It is beautiful to hear about the love and commitment you are giving to him. I'll pray for wisdom for you and the doctors to know when it is time for him to cross the bridge, but still praying for a miracle. My heart and Harvey's are with you.

Rainy


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## JLF1995

That is so sad...you have raised him to have him trust you, he loves you and you love him. It is sad, it is like you are loosing a love one. I hope he is happy to were he is going.


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## Rainy

How is Charley doing? Been praying for you both. HUGS.

Rainy and Harvey


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## shortnerdy

Oh charley  I'm so sorry to hear about this. We are here for you.


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## panda

Charley is definitely a fighter! You both have been fighting the big fight I know he appreciates all your efforts.
<3


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## LarryT

Charley crossed the rainbow bridge yesterday.


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## shortnerdy

Oh Charley  I am so sorry to hear about this. *offers hugs*


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## LarryT

LarryT said:


> Charley crossed the rainbow bridge yesterday.


viewtopic.php?f=35&t=13052&start=0


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