# Was advised to get hedgie off cat food.



## 8bitbetty (Sep 11, 2013)

I wandered into a pet food shop we have in town yesterday to see if they had any wheels since the one my hedgie boy had currently been using broke and became unusable. Well they didn't carry any but while I was there I wanted to take a look at the food they seemed to have a lot of high quality food too.

When I said I wanted to take a look at food too, she assumed I meant headgehog feed and said they didn't carry because none of the ones their distributors carried had their approval. When I said, Well I feed mine cat food. She shook her head and quickly told me not to do that.

She went on to explain that it was bad because hedgehogs didn't eat cows or chickens in the wild and that the protein content was too high and the fat content was too low.

I feed my hedgie is the Catwell Nutrisca Chicken recipes. with a mix of a few mealworms and crickets for treats. I've tried to give him some safe fruits and greens but he never really goes for them. I thought the ingredients looked good comparing to everything else I was able to find in my area.



> Chicken, Chicken Meal, Peas, Turkey Meal, Chickpeas, Chicken Fat (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Natural Flavor, Pea Protein, Tomato Pomace, Sunflower Oil (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, DL Methionine, Cranberries, Blueberries, Apples, Taurine, Carrots, Celery, Parsley, Lettuce, Watercress, Spinach, Beets, Zinc Sulfate, Iron Sulfate, Niacin, Vitamin E Supplement, Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Copper Sulfate, Calcium Pantothenate, Manganese Sulfate, Copper Proteinate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Riboflavin Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Vitamin A Actetate, Manganese Proteinate, Iodine Iodate, Folic Acide, Cobalt Proteinate, Selenium Selenite, Biotin, Cobalt Carbonate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Rosemary Extract


What she feeds her hedgehog is the Sunseed Wigglers & Berried trail mix.
There are fare fewer ingredients.



> Mealworms, Ground Corn, Dehydrated Celery, Puffed Millet, Dried Red Bell Peppers, Freeze Dried Strawberries, Dried Egg, Wheat Middlings, Ground Steamed-Rolled Oats, Vegetable Oil.


I know how many of you feel about commercial hedgehog food. Though I think I left a bit paranoid that I might be doing my hedgie wrong. Especially when she said Blue Buffalo was dangerous unless you sat there and took out the Lifesource bits since those can kill hedgies. Like everyone else, I want my hedgie to have a long and healthy life.

What do you guys make of it?

Watty will be 2 in june and I would have him for 2 years officially in August. I still feel like I'm learning new things everyday. He really seems to like the Nutrisca and adores getting mealies. In this case though, is less more?


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

Unfortunately, plenty of people are pretty misinformed about food to feed hedgehogs, and that includes vets and pet store employees. She's definitely wrong - cat food is perfectly fine for hedgehogs, and IMO, it's much better than hedgehog food. Almost all hedgehog foods have awful ingredients, and some are downright dangerous. 

Her claims that you shouldn't feed hedgehogs cat food because they wouldn't eat cows or chickens in the wild is just nonsense. Dogs & cats wouldn't either. Cows and chickens are domesticated animals - they wouldn't be found in the wild in the first place. Doesn't mean they're an inappropriate source of protein for domesticated or pet carnivores & omnivores.

Unfortunately, while the food you're feeding has great ingredients, the protein content is a little bit high. It is true that you want to be careful of the protein content with cat food - high quality cat foods, especially grain-free foods, tend to have proteins around 40% and over. For hedgehogs, you want to keep dry food protein content around 35% or lower. Fat content honestly varies by hedgehog - some are runners and need high fat, 15-20%. Some put weight on more easily and need fat content from 10-15% (probably a majority of hedgehogs fall into this group). Besides, most cat foods are higher in fat than most of the hedgehog foods I know of, and like I said, most hedgehogs need lower fat, so I don't know why she'd say cat foods are too low in fat.

The food that she's feeding isn't the worst hedgehog food I've seen, but I'm not sure why she thinks it's healthier or more appropriate. Hedgehogs wouldn't eat corn in the wild either. :roll: Having so many dried ingredients also poses a major risk for impaction due to having so little moisture (much less than a natural diet for any animal). While it might not be horrible as part of a mix of foods or as a treat, I would definitely not feed it as the main diet.

Needless to say...I think she's full of crap. I kind of wish I could come to the store and argue with her. :lol: 

The only suggestion I'd have for you with your hedgie's diet is to perhaps find a second cat (or dog) food with lower protein to mix in with the Nutrisca. Something that's 32% protein or less will balance out the Nutrisca's high protein percentage. If he's not having any weight issues, I wouldn't worry about the fat - he probably runs enough that it doesn't have any problems for him. So you could go for around the same fat content in the second food, or you could go for a bit lower, in case he ends up putting weight on as he ages. It's a good idea to have a mix of at least two foods anyway, both because we don't know exact nutritional requirements (but cat food clearly seems to work pretty well), and because if one food becomes unavailable, you still have one they're familiar with & won't risk an upset stomach or a food strike by suddenly switching foods. 

(Sorry for such a long reply! :lol: I have strong opinions about people who spread misinformation about animal food, to say the least.)


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## MomLady (Aug 14, 2010)

Well the first thing I see is that the Sunseed has ground corn as the second ingredient and that's not good. 

And seriously, there is no pet that will even touch the Life Source bits. My Nara would NEVER eat them. It was so funny. I have friends with cats, they won't eat them either. :lol:

I would suggest you search for threads in the Nutrition forum about Raw Feeding, Natural feeding and people who make their own food. 

Lillysmommy is a great nutrition resource, she will hopefully be around later with gread info. :grin:

Before my Nara passed, I had eliminated Blue Buffalo from her kibble mix. I had a kibble mix of Katz & Flocken Solid Gold, Merrick Healthy Senior cat food and Chicken soup for the Cat lover mature cat. I also made my own meatballs for her. The recipe is out there somewhere--called "Nara's Meatballs". 
I would also give her about 2 teaspoons of the Honest Kitchen Prowl cat food--this is a human grade dehydrated cat food with chicken and lots of veggies. 

The Catwell food ingredients look good, do you have the fat and protein info? Everyone will want to know that! 

Stay tuned and I'm sure that you will get some other good info! :grin:


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## MomLady (Aug 14, 2010)

LM must have been posting at the same time.

Told you she'd have a lot of info! :lol:


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## Royal Rain 42 (Dec 18, 2014)

When I first took Sonic in, he was being fed Kit and Kaboodle or some really cheap cat food.

I tried a few foods to start with, and I tried 3 kinds of blue buffalo (can't remember what ones) Sonic refused to eat any of them (ate around for the other two food mixed) tried to feed the left overs to the barn cats, they refused to eat it and I never looked back.

Nature Variety has some good foods, a little high in protein but I mix with Taste Of The Wild and Chicken soup kitten. Sonic has issues with keeping weight, due to having been a little starved before I got him and he is an avid runner and needs a bit higher of a fat diet plus his wax worms.

That mix has done amazing work, he holds his weight perfectly. But it really is gunna come down to how active your heggie is, his current body condition, age all sorts of things do factor into the ideal food mix. It's a bit of trial and error till you get it. I posted a bunch on here on my food findings till I finally went for it haha. No regrets! Everyone was a great help.


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## DesireeM81 (Jun 14, 2014)

Just as a fyi, my guys LOVE Blue Buffalo, I feed it to my dogs. Well to two of them, one who is the pickiest eater. I do not feed BB to my hedgehogs anymore but that's because they put chicken in everything and it's hard to find other proteins. Even their Limited Ingredients Diets have a lot of ingredients. Blue Buffalo is a fine food, don't let anyone scare you. Do your research first and decide what is best for your hedgehog. (But seriously that is some gross hedgehog food. :lol


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## 8bitbetty (Sep 11, 2013)

Thanks everyone! I think this helped me feel a whole lot better after yesterday. I will be on the look out for a second food to mix with the Nutrisca. The Crude protein content is 38% and the crude fat content is 16%. My hedgie has never had a weight problem and he's a bit of a poop machine. I am open to suggestions. That employee did give me some baggies of Fromm to sample with my dog, and i've heard great things about Fromm for cats from a few friends. Does anyone know anything about this brand. If I can buy a big bag for my dog and mix some of it with the hedgie that might kill two birds with one stone.

I love the idea about making your own food too. I would feel like I know exactly what is going into my hedgies food and I am willing to try.

I will ask what are the consequences on keeping a hedgie on such a high protein content diet long term.

Again, thanks to everyone who responded and Lilysmommy don't sweat the length. That was all great information.

Overall, I'm not sure where that lady from the store got her info though.


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## Royal Rain 42 (Dec 18, 2014)

Fromm dog foods have around 30% highest all the way down to 24% protein for most their dog foods, would be good if mixed with one of the lower % ones. Just making sure the kibble sizes are not too hard for him to eat.

I believe that high protein is hard on the liver and kidneys since that is where protein is processed and too much can cause them to work much harder.


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## Akells23 (Jul 22, 2014)

Can the Lifesource bits in BB really kill hedgies?


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## 8bitbetty (Sep 11, 2013)

> Can the Lifesource bits in BB really kill hedgies?


Doing a search online, I haven't found anything that is substantial about the Lifesource Bits killing hedgehogs but I have come across a few people that say they do take them out before feeding it to their hedgies.



> Fromm dog foods have around 30% highest all the way down to 24% protein for most their dog foods, would be good if mixed with one of the lower % ones. Just making sure the kibble sizes are not too hard for him to eat.
> 
> I believe that high protein is hard on the liver and kidneys since that is where protein is processed and too much can cause them to work much harder.


Well the last thing I want is to give my little guy Hedgie Cirrhosis. I think mixing with the Fromm Dog Food looks ok. I'm assuming since the ingredients are safe for dogs they should technically be safe for hedgies, though i'm not an expert on hedgie nutrition yet so correct me if I'm wrong here. The Lamb and Lentil is what I think I am going to go with. I was given a sample baggie and the kibble seems pretty soft and small enough.

the Crude Protein in is it 29% and the crude fat is 18%.

Ingredients:


> Lamb,	Lamb Meal,	Lentils,	Chickpeas, Dried Whole Egg,	Peas,	Dried Tomato Pomace,	Pork Fat,	Pea Flour,	Pork Liver,	Salmon Oil,	Cheese,	Olive Oil, Yellow Squash,	Zucchini,	Apples, Flaxseed,	Pea Fiber,	Tomatoes, Carrots,	Broccoli,	Potassium Chloride, Salt,	Chicory Root Extract,	Yucca Schidigera Extract,	Sodium Selenite, Folic Acid,	Taurine,	Sorbic Acid (Preservative),	Vitamins,	Minerals, Probiotics.


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## Nick120180 (Oct 27, 2014)

How about a BARF type diet. Here in the UK there are numerous pre mixed frozen raw cat food providers. I'm sure they have them where you are too. They have a veggie content and all the right minerals for cats so hopefully suitable for hedges and gotta be better than dry kibble. Just switched mine almost off kibble entirely and less poop, less smell, better skin and oodles of energy.
I feed approx 6% body weight of the frozen cat food along with a selection of fruit, veg and low fat live insects. Will also probably add some pinkies as an occasional treat along egg, mince and occasionally a piece of raw steak.


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## nikki (Aug 28, 2008)

I actually had a hedgehog that ate the lifesource bits from the Blue Buffalo food and it didn't kill him. He lived a long and healthy life. He was the only hedgehog I ever had that would eat them.


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## lilsurfergrlsp (Dec 13, 2013)

I'm happy to hear that Tansy wasn't the only picky hedgie to not eat the life source bits. I would take them out of her food and give them as little snacks to my dogs 

But if you're interested in trying out the homemade and/or raw diet, or the barf diet as Nick suggested, the west coast hedgehogs book has a great section on homemade diets. there are also some super helpful threads on here, all about raw diets, how to balance it, supplements, etc. I feed my girl a raw diet and she was more active (though she hadn't been recently until I rearranged her cage a little bit), less dry skin, and all that good stuff.


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## melon&hiccup (Jul 18, 2014)

Royal Rain 42 said:


> When I first took Sonic in, he was being fed Kit and Kaboodle or some really cheap cat food.
> 
> I tried a few foods to start with, and I tried 3 kinds of blue buffalo (can't remember what ones) Sonic refused to eat any of them (ate around for the other two food mixed) tried to feed the left overs to the barn cats, they refused to eat it and I never looked back.
> 
> ...


I was just wondering if you did a 50-50 mix of the Taste of the Wild and the Chicken Soup kitten. I got a hedgie who can't put on weight like she should and she is a runner. Thanks


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## Royal Rain 42 (Dec 18, 2014)

melon&hiccup said:


> I was just wondering if you did a 50-50 mix of the Taste of the Wild and the Chicken Soup kitten. I got a hedgie who can't put on weight like she should and she is a runner. Thanks


 my personal mix is TOTW pacific stream puppy, Chicken Soup kitten, and natures variety rabbit formula. So I really do a 3 way mix but so far it has been perfect combined with daily Wax Worms at keeping weight on him. But it was the process of getting him to that healthy weight that took the most time.


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