# Seriously Losing Patience :(



## ssawchuk (Sep 15, 2012)

Hedgehog owner since December 2011 (although I had owned one previously about 12 years ago, who I loved!)

Truffles (my current hedgehog) was given to me as a gift (totally caught off guard). I work 50-70 hours a week, so during the time of first having her, I didn't spend as much time with her as I probably should have. As months went on, I began picking her up (with gloves), letting her run around and get used to scents/smells/my hands, and although there were minor improvements, she is/always has been super high strung. I can't walk past her cage without her huffing into a ball, I can't try to pick her up without her huffing into a ball and trying to run away, and I can't hold her with bare hands without her biting me (and drawing blood). She will literally bite anything.. I put her on a towel or a blanket and she bites it until she can tear it, if she bites my hand (she never chews or nibbles) she literally chomps like an alligator and won't let go until she sees me bleed. She even bites the gloves I'll pick her up with now (never used to), and I was cleaning a few stray poops out of her cage with a spoon, and she chased the spoon and bit it (until she realized metal hurts..)

I'm not sure how much more time/stress I can take. The pet store I bought it from said they've heard this story before, and suggested I give her to a breeder, and warned me that some hedgehogs are just born mean (obviously not making good pets.. how can you love or connect with something you're terrified of, or can't even hold?) They strongly suggested not giving her to a prospective hedgie owner, as Truffles will likely be mean to them too, and who knows what they'd do with her...

PLEASE help or advise!!!


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## moxieberry (Nov 30, 2011)

Hedgehogs aren't born "mean". They have different personalities, like people do, but they're mostly a product of their environment. In my experience, how well they're socialized and handled as babies and when they're young has a lot to do with it.

It sounds like she's very, very defensive and hasn't been well handled or socialized. Now that she's an adult, and has gone for a while without handling in the past, it can be difficult to bond. First, you should never wear gloves to pick up or handle a hedgehog - they block off your scent and make you seem that much scarier. Use a piece of fleece or a small towel, but not gloves. If you don't have a sleeping/bonding bag, I highly suggest that. It lets you have your hedgehog out with you outside of the cage while still letting her feel secure. Just having her in a bag in your lap can go a long way toward getting her used to you, but it's not going to be immediate by any means. You can try to give her treats when you have her out so she associates you with something good, or try just letting her run around on you on the couch or in a playpen. Make sure your hands are clean (washed with unscented soap) because if they smell like food or anything else it can cause biting, although it sounds like the biting you have going on is purely defensive.

She's scared of you, that's what it comes down to. Sorry, but I have to say it - the lack of handling in the beginning really didn't help. Even very sweet babies can turn out antisocial and huffy if they go for a long time without being handled or getting interaction with people - the same as with dogs. You're going to have to try to make up for lost time, which takes a lot of dedication and patience. She may not come around fully, or to your satisfaction, but you should try to love her for what she is, instead of comparing her to the hedgehog you had before. Some hedgehogs just don't like being held; this seems to especially be the case for hedgies that haven't been handled much when they were young, and I have one of those myself. You have to figure out what kind of relationship is going to work for both of you, and try to see it from her point of view. You're huge, and scary, and reaching into her home where she's supposed to be safe. She never got the chance to get used to you in the beginning, she's essentially been alone this entire time, so she sees you as something that's invading her space and threatening her. It's possible to work past that, but she's probably never going to be a sweet, cuddly, super friendly hedgehog.

If you don't think you're up to the task of slowly socializing her, or willing to put forth the effort with the possibility of her never really opening up fully, I would suggest contacting the Hedgehog Welfare Society or anyone on their list of contacts/rescues in your area. I agree that in her current state, she shouldn't be passed on to someone else as a pet - if you're not able or willing to work with her, she should go to someone with enough hedgehog experience to be able to do so, otherwise she'll just end up in the same situation again.

Good luck.


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## LarryT (May 12, 2009)

If you do decide to give her up try the Hedgehog Welfare Society(HWS) they are great and caring people that can help.  
http://hedgehogwelfare.org/
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/hedgehogwelfare/


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## qjtrinh (Jul 4, 2012)

She almost sounds possessed


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## MurE (Aug 29, 2011)

I'm sorry it has been so difficult for you. It sounds very frustrating.

I had a previous, very friendly hedgehog too, and it has been a very startling experience to have a hedgehog like Poggles that is not very friendly at all. Fortunately for me, he is not a biter. However, I seem to be SUPER allergic to getting poked by him so it's kind of like getting bit every time I try to handle him and get poked. So, yeah, it's a very different relationship from the one I had with my first hedgehog, which was kind of all love and cuddles and kisses.

However, Poggles is starting to come around. I made it a habit to make every interaction with him positive FOR HIM. Not necessarily for me. He always got a treat every time I was around him or touched him. And no matter how he behaved, I was nice back to him. In some ways, you might think this would reinforce his bad behaviour, but that didn't happen. Instead, he just started realizing that I was a really good thing.

The first time I noticed that he was coming around was when I took the dome off of him, and he didn't put ALL of his quills up. There was a teeny section in the middle that was only partially stuck up. I immediately gave him a treat and talked gently to him. Sometimes i don't say anything at all to him when I'm with him. I just quietly feed him. It seems to calm him down.

Recently, he started to not put most of his quills up when I lifted the dome off. The quills only go half up. Also, he doesn't huff at all, or only huffs a little when I lift the dome off. This is a HUGE improvement from the frantic jumping and hissing he used to do. 

I even got to pet him yesterday and he just lay there. I was so surprised that I had to pull him out from under his wheel to check if he was sick or something. I didn't think it was possible for him to be so calm.

I'm not saying this will happen with your hedgehog, but I'm saying that a lot of patience and consistently positive interactions go a long way to "taming" a hedgehog that's so frightened. You have to prove to your hedgie that you are worth loving and worth being calm around. Right now, you are the scariest thing that could ever enter her world, and she has no idea what to expect from you.

It is okay to feel overwhelmed and frustrated. It is even okay to give up your hedgehog to someone else that will safely care for her. It's really rewarding, however, if you ever have the joy of being able to "tame" a super frightened hedgie. It makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

Good luck with your hedgie! I hope everything works out for both you and for her.


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## Tym4myself (Jul 17, 2012)

I have a grumpy hedgehog too. I totally understand where you're coming from. Sparty was my first hedgie and I was pretty frustrated because he seemed adorable and snuggly at the breeder's house but when I got him home that all changed. He was huffy and popping at me all the time, rarely uncurled (only for treats) and lately he has started biting me as well. I'd be lying if I said I didn't think about re-homing him or returning him to the breeder but I ended up deciding that what was in his best interest was to keep him and try to make his life as happy and comfortable as possible, even if it meant our relationship wasn't what I was hoping for or expecting. I still handle him every day and let him sleep in a sleeping bag on my lap. I want him to be used to being handled, even if he doesn't like it, for when he needs to see a vet. Maybe at some point he will start to be less afraid or threatened, but if he doesn't I know that he had a good home here.


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## ssawchuk (Sep 15, 2012)

Thanks for the advice, you guys. I'm going to try handling her every evening for several more weeks. I can deal with the balling up and hissing, but it's the biting that terrifies me and makes me nervous to be around my pet. It's been 10 months of "waiting" and hoping and stressing, but I'll give her a couple more months. And I'll put in 110%.


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## smhufflepuff (Aug 28, 2008)

MurE's comments seem to really hit the nail on the head... nice post.

I bet that you and Truffles have a set a bit of a bad cycle in motion in terms of the biting --> anxiety for you --> she senses your anxiety --> she gets anxious --> she bites --> you feel more anxious --> she senses more anxiety --> she gets more anxious... you get the idea. 

Break the cycle... Kill off your anxiety by using a protective barrier. Pick her up using some fleece. Fleece won't stop some of her quills from poking through to the other side, but it'll sure make it harder for her to chomp on you. It'll also let your scent come through. Wash the fleece in scent-free detergent; you can use vinegar as fabric softener (the commercial ones always seem to incorporate a scent). Then, either line-dry or tumble dry without a dryer sheet (commercial dryer sheets seem to be scented too). Put the fleece in her house, so it picks up her scent. Then use it to pick her up. 

If all else fails: oven mitts. Nice big, soft, quilted oven mitts. Wash and dry just like the fleece -- you want to remove any scents that aren't either her or your natural scents. You probably don't want to leave them in her cage like you would with the fleece - particularly if she makes messies where you want your hands to be! And there are possibilities that she'll go in and not be able to get back out or get caught up on a loose thread since the insides aren't finished up to sewing-for-hedgie-safety level specifications. But you can put them nearby.


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## moxieberry (Nov 30, 2011)

smhufflepuff said:


> If all else fails: oven mitts. Nice big, soft, quilted oven mitts. Wash and dry just like the fleece -- you want to remove any scents that aren't either her or your natural scents. You probably don't want to leave them in her cage like you would with the fleece - particularly if she makes messies where you want your hands to be! And there are possibilities that she'll go in and not be able to get back out or get caught up on a loose thread since the insides aren't finished up to sewing-for-hedgie-safety level specifications. But you can put them nearby.


I actually have to disagree. Fleece or a small blanket/towel are fine for picking up and holding a hedgehog (though a towel or any blanket with loose or looped threads can't be left in the cage) - but gloves are really not recommended, and oven mitts fall under that category. Fleece/blanket is enough of a barrier against being poked, but it's thin enough that the hedgehog feels your hands through it, and it also doesn't block out the scent of you. Gloves get in the way of the "person" smell, which is necessary for bonding, and for them feeling comfortable. They need to know who it is that's picking them up, or it just makes them more frightened and defensive. Reaching into the cage with big mitt on is also going to get more of a defensive reaction compared to fleece or bare hands, because it's something large and bulky coming at them.

Hedgehogs will often be antsy about being picked up because they're lifted into the air and they want something solid under their feet - that's why hedgehogs that squirm or make a fuss when they're being held away from you tend to settle when they're held close against your body. Bulky gloves or oven mitts are too thick to let them actually feel your hands, and even though you may have a good hold on them, that isn't communicated to the hedgehog - all they really feel is the cushy fabric, so it's going to exacerbate any nervousness because they don't feel secure. The other problem with thick gloves or mitts is that they limit your dexterity - if you have a squirmy hedgehog that's not wanting to stay still in your hands, they make it difficult to keep hold of the hedgie or adjust your hold as necessary to avoid dropping them as they move around.

As an alternative, besides using fleece, I also suggest having a sleeping/cuddle bag in the cage as the "bed". It doesn't help when the hedgehog is already up and about in the cage, but for taking them out when they're still asleep, it's easy to just reach in and take out the whole bag. Then you can set the bag in your lap for a while and let that be the bonding session, or just wait for them to come out on their own.


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

Although I rarely support the use of gloves, in this case, I agree totally with smhufflepuff. As she stated, "If all else fails" use oven mitts. This is a situation where the owner is considering rehoming the hedgehog due to her biting and if oven mitts or gloves are what is needed to break the biting/fear cycle then we do what we have to. 

I ended up having to use gloves with one of our boys. Quillson was prone to bony growths on his feet and he was a very large hedgehog weighing 800+ grams. When he would get a growth, running on the wheel would make sores on the growth and poop would get into the sores and twice he had to have a toe and the growth surgically removed. Because of this, he needed his feet washed daily and I cannot even begin to describe how much Quillson grew to HATE food baths. He expressed his anger by biting and he would seek out my fingers and manage to get me no matter what blanket or cloth I used. He was becoming a miserable and angry boy and my hands showed it. One night I'd managed the bath without being bit and as I was putting him back in his cage, I let my guard down and he nailed me. When Quillson bit he would grind his teeth back and forth and he was the pitbull of hedgies and would not let go. My blood was running out of his mouth as I tried to wait him out but finally had to take him back into the bathroom, fill up the sink and dunk him to make him let go. That was the night I decided to use gloves. The gloves worked. He still bit me and held on and depending on where he bit he could still give me a pinch but he couldn't break the skin and it did not hurt and I could wait him out. I used womens leather dress gloves and only one and it was thin enough that he certainly felt my fingers but he couldn't hurt me. Poor Quillson still had to have daily foot baths but the glove saved my fingers and once he realized he was no longer hurting me, he quit biting. He was the only one I ever needed to use a glove with but it worked. Thankfully, it wasn't long after that we found a solution to the poopy feet and growths problem so he no longer needed daily foot baths. 

A blanket or cloth or hedgie bag is certainly the way to start and hopefully it will work but if all else fails. I've recommended leather dress gloves to others with biters and they've worked to break the cycle. Often once hedgie realizes there is no reaction from biting and the owner no longer has the fear of being bit, then the biting stops. 

Truffles may also be a very oral hedgehog. If she likes chewing and tugging on cloth, let her. Wear an old t-shirt or sweatshirt and let her go at it. Just make certain the fabric is not tight to your skin or she might accidentally grab skin too. I've had many whose favourite evening pastime was sitting on me and chewing my tshirt. Abby used to look absolutely possessed as she'd run up to my neck to grab the neckline of my top to chew and tug at. 

Have a hedgie safe cloth for her to bite at so when she runs to bite, put it in front of her face. 

Hopefully, you and she will be able to come to an understanding and she will quit feeling the need to bite.


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## moxieberry (Nov 30, 2011)

Thanks for explaining it more fully Nancy!  After thinking it over, I agree that gloves could be an appropriate option as a last resort, but I think the kind you described, or similar gloves that aren't so bulky, would be what to use if the situation really demands it - like the cheap knit ones possibly, though they might not resist bites as well as leather? For the reasons I already mentioned (the hedgehog being unable to feel your hand through it, the size likely being more intimidating when they're being picked up, and the difficulty with holding a hedgehog securely) - I still think oven mitts (or similar, like bulky ski gloves) aren't a good choice. Close-fitted gloves wouldn't have those problems, and still guard against the biting.


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## MurE (Aug 29, 2011)

I'm all for gloves if the biting doesn't stop. There's no point increasing your own anxiety and your hedgehog's anxiety every time you want to handle your baby. I love the idea of the women's leather gloves because they stop the teeth from breaking skin. That would definitely discourage any biting since it has no effect. No effect = why bother? Plus the leather would keep out most quill pokes too. Since allergies often develop slowly, I would be in favour of less pokes so that you have less exposure to the quill irritants.

I once had a hamster that was a biter. I wasn't going to put up with broken skin every time I played with her no matter what kind of bonding I wanted. I put on garden gloves and she never bit me again. It's strange. I'm not sure if she realized that biting fabric was pointless or if it was actually my skin that she wanted to bite. At any rate, we had a fantastic relationship after that and I wasn't afraid of handling her anymore. 

So while I agree with trying other methods first, I would totally agree with using gloves if it prevented broken skin. I am 100% against bleeding every time you hold your hedgehog. I think it's bad for your health and it's bad for your hedgie. Hedgehogs are awesome pets and I love that they have their own defense system, but you should not have to suffer needlessly in order to own one (especially one of these "hedgies from ****"). I would sacrifice perfect bonding for a bonded relationship with gloves any day. I think it's possible. Plus my hamster got held and handled a lot more once gloves were introduced. That a lot more calm socialization. 

Another thing, I wash my hands every time before I handle my hedgie, but I am aware of the fact that germs are still on my hands all of the time. The hamster that I held with gloves lived an extraordinarily long time for a dwarf hamster. I sometimes suspect that insisting that all visitors use those clean gloves to handle her reduced her exposure to lots of germy hands. Just a thought.


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