# Kitten food suggestions? (for very active hedgie)



## moxieberry (Nov 30, 2011)

Archimedes seems like he's going to be (or already is) one of those particularly active hedgehogs. He's a bit of a spaz in general, much more interested in exploring than being held or cuddling, and he's craaazy about his wheel. We haven't yet set up an odometer on his wheel to track exactly how much he runs, but there are some nights when he'll start running around when we go to sleep, and be running a few hours later when I get up to use the bathroom, and then Nick will report that he's also running another few hours later when he gets up for work. Obviously he's probably taking breaks, but in general, yeah, he's nuts. XD

As of now he doesn't seem to be having problems gaining weight, but I'm not entirely sure. He was 157g when the breeder weighed him the day we picked him up (6 weeks 2 days). I weighed him 8 days later (7.5 weeks) and he was 190g (+33). Then I weighed him again five days later, which was right on his 8 weeks mark, and he was 200g (+10). So, he's gaining, but it seems to be slowing down; since his interest in the wheel picked up after about a week and a half of being home (he was crazy for it the first day, but otherwise was mostly doing the sleepy baby thing), I'm thinking there's some relation. I'm not so much worried about his weight currently, just looking forward, and I want to start adding a higher fat kitten food to his current mix.

Right now he's eating about two parts Chicken Soup for the Cat Lover's Soul (adult light formula) and one part breeder's mix. CSftCLSlite is 9% fat and 33% protein. I know the various foods in the breeder's mix (two kinds of Purina One, Natural Balance reduced calorie, and Nature's Variety Chicken) but I don't know the specific fat/protein ratio of that combination. I intend to use the breeder's mix until it's used up, and I hadn't yet picked another cat food to add to CSftCLSlite once the breeder's mix is used up; I've been holding off to get a feel for what Ares' needs would be. 

I pretty much have a list of five or six good foods that meet the fat/protein ratio for a typical hedgehog, but of course Ares had to go and make things difficult, haha. I'd love some insight on what fat/protein ratio might work in combination with CSftCLSlite, or just in general, what fat percentage to aim for (for the entirety of the diet) for a particularly active hedgehog - I can do the math myself without too much trouble. (Probably, lol.) Also, if anyone can suggest a specific kitten food that has worked for them, I'd appreciate that too.

Thanks! :]


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## Kalandra (Aug 25, 2008)

It really just depends on the hedgehog as to how much fat I add to their food. I've had some where I aimed at 15% fat and right now I have one that I bumped it up to 18%. Anything less and she drops weight rapidly. She runs all night long, and for long distances, last night she ran just over 9 miles in 6.5 hrs of running time. I've seen her go as far as 11 miles a night. She she become less active as she becomes a senior hedgehog, I will reduce, but for now she's holding steady and looks good.

However, if your boy is growing on the mix you are currently feeding, I really wouldn't change much at all. You may see giant fluctuations in the amount your little one gains. Some hedgehogs are known to grow slowly and have growth spurts, where others just rapidly gain and stop growing at a younger age.

I had one who consistently grew at 10-12 grams / day for weeks, then she tapered off to almost no gain. She went from being a 70 g 7 week old to over 700 grams quickly. She topped out at 850 grams. While her brother took it more slowly. He had times where he barely gained anything all week, then would take a growth spurt. He grew up to be a much smaller hedgehog.


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## moxieberry (Nov 30, 2011)

Thanks for the info! I've been looking for another food to integrate into his mix regardless, because he'll be eating just CSftCLSlite once the breeder's mix is finished - probably in another two weeks. I pretty much intend to leave the Chicken Soup as the main part of his diet, since it's great food and he loves it, but his gaining so far has been with the addition of the breeder's mix - half and half for the first week (about) and now 2/3 of the Chicken Soup. So his actual fat percentage so far while I've had him has been more than 9%, and since he's doing good with that, I don't want to have him drop to a lower fat percentage, which is what will happen when I'm out of the breeder's mix.

From what I can tell, kitten foods offer pretty much the same in terms of content/ingredients and protein percentage as their adult counterparts, but with higher fat, so that's the most straightforward way of adding a higher fat food (to 1. keep him at about the same overall percentage, and 2. address the fact that he's probably going to be a runner-type hedgehog to whatever extent) without sacrificing quality. Now that I've gone and calculated it, it looks like the breeder's mix on its own has about 14% fat - meaning that when he was getting half and half his fat percentage was at 11.5%, and now that he's getting only 1/3 of the breeder's mix, his fat percentage is a little over 10%. So I think the best choice right now would be to find a food (kitten or otherwise) that's at 14% fat and introduce him to that as a replacement for the breeder's mix, then adjust the amount of that new one accordingly.


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## Kalandra (Aug 25, 2008)

You certainly don't need to go down the kitten food route, there is a lot of variety of good foods out there in the range you are looking for.

I have a wild spreadsheet I created ages ago to help me lower the carb content of a cancer patient's diet... Doing a quick filter and here are some foods that target your 14% fat addition. There are other varieties out there, these are just some that I have considered and/or tried.

Name	Protein	Fat
Felidae Platinum 30	14
Natural Planet Organics	30	14
Newman's Own Advanced Active or Senior	34	14
Now! Weight Manage	30	14

Of those the Felidae is a bigger kibble, but my hedgehogs liked it. Natural planets is a small flat triangle that is easy to break, again they liked it. Newman's was hit or miss with mine, some loved it others ate around it. Now! is one I am considering, I've seen others here using it.

If you want to go higher fat and stay under 35% protein:

Name	Protein	Fat
Fromm duck a-la-veg	34	20
Fromm Surf & Turf 34	19
Halo Spot's Stew - Turkey Sensitive Cat	32	16
Halo Spots Stew Indoor cat Salmon	33	18
Halo Spot's Stew Dry- Cat Grain-Free Chicken recipe 33	18

I'm feeding the duck a la veg & spots stew salmon in my mix currently. The hedgehogs pick out the duck a la veg first. Both are small kibble, very friendly to little mouths. Fromm is harder to find, but I love this food, they also have a lower protein/fat version (Mature Gold), Halo is readily found in Petco, Petsmart and most other pet stores now.


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## moxieberry (Nov 30, 2011)

Yeah, I did the calculation in the middle of writing the post. The exact number was 14.25% fat for the breeder's mix, so it's pushing toward 15, but I realized when I actually pulled up the numbers that it wasn't quite in kitten food range. (One of the ones in the mix is 22% fat, but it's sort of balanced by another that's also 9%; the two Purina One foods are 12% and 14%.) I still have a hunch that he might end up needing higher than 10-11% fat since he's becoming so wheel-crazy, but I'm looking through the list for foods in general that are around 14% to combine with the Chicken Soup. That's sort of Step One, and Step Two will be another adjustment later on (once the breeder's mix is all gone) if he starts to have any problems gaining weight (or maintaining it once he's an adult).

Thanks for the list, I'll take a look at those. I'm kind of tempted to add in a different Chicken Soup formula (senior hairball, 30% protein/13% fat), but I also think it might be better to pick something that's not Chicken Soup, for the sake of variety - because Archimedes absolutely won't eat anything other than kibble, haha. I'm also considering a few of the Royal Canin choices; several of those fall right around 14% fat, with good protein percentages, and I know those are pretty readily available without having to hunt them down like I did for the Chicken Soup lite. I also might choose one that's around 15% or 16% and then have that be more like 1/4 (with 3/4 Chicken Soup) which would bring the total to about where I want it. Now I just have to narrow down the choices!

From what I understand, around 6 months is when the weight will plateau. I know that it can vary by hedgehog, so I wouldn't be particularly concerned if he stops gaining sooner. But (hypothetically, so I know what to watch for), how soon would be too soon? If he starts losing weight, that's an obvious sign that I would need to adjust the food, but is it pretty much fine otherwise, even if he were to (again hypothetically) stop gaining weight several months prior to 6 months? Or does the timing and specific weight not really matter at all, as long as he stays steady and doesn't show the ) ( too-skinny figure? He's already 200g, so he's not a bad size at all so far. These aren't worried-mama questions - I'm quite proud of how the little goober is progressing, but I want to figure out more specifically what to expect as he gets older, what's normal and what's not, so as to avoid any worried-mama moments down the road.

Thanks for the info again, Kalandra!


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## hanhan27 (May 12, 2011)

My hog is a crazy runner as well. She wheels for sometimes 2 hours at a time, almost nonstop. :shock: 

She is one of those hogs that grew like crazy for a week, then didn't gain anything at all for another week, etc. She definitely had those big growth spurts. Now she's 9 months old and a steady 395 grams. She was 170g at 9 weeks old and hit 375g around 5 months old.

We had some real issues getting her to keep weight on when she was eating Natural Balance green pea and duck, Purina One Beyond salmon and brown rice, and Wellness healthy weight. I took the Wellness out because it was causing tummy issues for her and replaced it with Blue Buffalo adult indoor health chicken and rice. She still ate all of her mix just fine, but if I wasn't feeding her 15-20 meal worms a night, she was steadily losing weight. I got the advice here to try adding Royal Canin babycat into her food mix (24% fat... I know, you're probably thinking :shock: oh my goodness!) and after some trial and error with finding just the right amount to put in her mix (started off with too much, cut the amount in half when she gained weight too fast, then she started losing again so had to add more :roll: ), she has finally plateaued off at a healthy looking weight. 

The babycat kibbles are very, very small (maybe 1/4 the size of the Purina One Beyond kibbles) so when I put them in her mix, I count every 2 babycat kibbles as 1 "real" kibble. Her mix has 25 P1B, 25 BB adult indoor health, 25 BB basics, and 30 of the individual RC babycat (15 if you count every 2 RC as 1 normal kibble). She eats at least 3/4 of that every night, but usually she has 5 or 6 kibbles left.

All hogs are different as we all know :lol: This worked for me and has saved me SO much money when it comes to buying meal worms. She loves the Royal Canin and I've seen it recommended here many times as hogs tend to like it a lot because it's higher in fat and small in size.


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## moxieberry (Nov 30, 2011)

Thanks hanhan! I was actually just discussing this with my boyfriend, and we're going to try Royal Canin kitten. It's the 'older kitten' version of the babycat, with 17% fat. If I incorporate that with the Chicken Soup lite at 1/4 RC and 3/4 CS, it'll put the total at around 11% fat, which is where he's at with the CS + breeder's mix combo right now - and it also leaves wiggle room, so I can add the RC kitten as more than 1/4 if necessary. When I get it (probably later today) and switch him over, he'll have a somewhat higher fat content overall from the breeder's mix + RC kitten together with the CS, but that's hardly going to be a problem for a growing baby when it's going to even out again in a week or two (when the breeder's mix runs out). My boyfriend fed his first hedgehog a different variety of Royal Canin, and has a good opinion of that brand. It also helps that PetCo (the closest pet store to us) has the RC kitten in small bags (12 oz) which is nice - it means I only have to spend about $5, which is less waste for me if Archimedes ends up not liking it, and also 12 oz is still going to last quite a while with the small amount I anticipate (half a tablespoon or less per day, and each ounce of cat kibble is typically around 3 tablespoons).

We've also been looking at instructions for setting up an odometer on the wheel for the last week, so I think I'll go find one at Walmart or whatever while I'm out - that way I can get a better sense of how much he's running. He makes it kind of hard, because sometimes it's really obvious (from the constantly-running behavior I described in the first post) which often is accompanied by a very poopy wheel - but a few times (like last night) he's demonstrated pretty much the same behavior but left the wheel almost spotless. Since he seems to run in bursts (maybe having to do with still being small, so the momentum of the wheel seems to take over and throw his balance off sometimes when we're watching him), it's possible that sometimes he just does his business during his little scampering fits of energy that take him around behind the wheel, across the cage through his food and water, etc. Crazy crazy little boy. XD


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

If he is not on kitten now, I would not put him on kitten unless once fully grown, he is skinny and needs more weight. Kitten food can be very difficult to wean them off of once they are on it and IMO, not worth even starting it unless there is a problem that they really need the kitten.


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## moxieberry (Nov 30, 2011)

Thanks Nancy, I hadn't considered that. Do you think that's likely to be an issue in a case where a small amount of kitten food is added to a good adult cat food that he's already eating? I can definitely see how it'd be a problem if the kitten food is all he would be getting, but this would be just adding it to the Chicken Soup. About 3 parts Chicken Soup lite and one part Royal Canin kitten 36 is what I'd be trying, to even his fat percentage out to what it is right now (10-11% overall) since the breeder's mix is running out, and the kitten 36 (17% fat on its own) would let me adjust it so he has a little more fat percentage as necessary if he continues on the super-runner path he's on. Let me know what you think, or whether kitten food should still be avoided in this case. Thanks again! :]


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

Usually when kitten is in with a mix of adult, they will only eat the kitten. With some of them, you can use the kitten as a treat and since it's not in their dish, they will still eat their normal kibble. You can try giving him some kitten when you have him out for playtime. Just don't put it in his dish. :lol:


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## moxieberry (Nov 30, 2011)

Thanks, I think I'll try that. He absolutely won't eat anything else I've tried as treats/supplements so far, so he has nothing 'special' for food. I'll see if offering that while I'm handling him or putting some in his dig box to hunt for puts him off his normal kibble - if it does I'll stop the kitten stuff as treats; he likes the CSlite now and I want to keep it that way! If only he would eat insects, that would pretty much solve my extra fat problem, haha. Thanks for the tip Nancy!


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## readthebook2 (Jan 16, 2012)

Thanks for the info. I was given different information on another thread, but this makes sense. I was previously told to keep the hedgie on kitten food with the higher fat content until he is 6 months old and then switch him to light cat food. It would make sense that he would not be so thrilled about that. 
So to summarize, you would say it's better to start and keep him on a mix of some type, and then cut back on the mix if necessary to adjust fats as he gets older? I was going to go with Innova since it comes in a smaller bag and I'll only have one hedgehog. But I should mix the light Innova cat food with something else while he's a baby or continuing as he's an adult? 
Sorry, there seems to be a lot of difference of opinion and I'm just trying to get it figured out before we pick up our hedgie in the next couple weeks. Thanks.


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## hanhan27 (May 12, 2011)

readthebook2 said:


> Thanks for the info. I was given different information on another thread, but this makes sense. I was previously told to keep the hedgie on kitten food with the higher fat content until he is 6 months old and then switch him to light cat food. It would make sense that he would not be so thrilled about that.
> So to summarize, you would say it's better to start and keep him on a mix of some type, and then cut back on the mix if necessary to adjust fats as he gets older? I was going to go with Innova since it comes in a smaller bag and I'll only have one hedgehog. But I should mix the light Innova cat food with something else while he's a baby or continuing as he's an adult?
> Sorry, there seems to be a lot of difference of opinion and I'm just trying to get it figured out before we pick up our hedgie in the next couple weeks. Thanks.


There is a difference of opinion, and really it comes down to what you would prefer. 

I would start off feeding a mix of 2 or 3 foods that have the 'recommended' fat content - around 13-15%, then adjust the hog's food as needed. If you end up with a major runner who ends up with an unhealthy body type, you may want to incorporate a higer fat food into the mix you feed. You could also get a lazier hog who needs a low-fat diet :lol: But, this is just my opinion, based off of what I have learned in my months here at HHC.


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

If you are using Chicken Soup Lite and want more fat, got to regular. It is easier to go to a higher or lower fat adult food than weaning them off kitten. Going from CS lite to regular will not upset her tummy at all as it's the same food, just different fat content.


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