# 3.5 month old giving us some troubles. Questions that need answers?



## albions-angel (Dec 20, 2014)

Hi all.

My little bro just got our first hedgie. Little Togo is an African Pygmy Hedgehog and is just about 3 and a half months old. And Im a little worried about him on a number of things.

First up is we have noticed he is decreasing in activity when we get him out. Even when he fully wakes up he just sits still looking around.

I think part of this is due to heating and this is my first (and most urgent) question. We are in the UK, and while we like a warm house, sometimes it gets cold. The room he is in sometimes dips quite low but he is by a radiator and does ok, but I wanted to increase his temp a little.

I bought this Habistat Heat Mat, 7 Watt, 6 x 11-inch: Amazon.co.uk: Pet Supplies.

Its a 17"/11" reptile 20W heating pad. And I installed it UNDER his plastic 16"/40" tank (top half is perspex, bottom is opaque). I put it under his bed end so it covers about a third of his tank. Its been running a couple of hours now and the floor above that end is warmer to the touch but not what I would call warm. Should I have that pad IN the tank? How would I stop him chewing through the cable if I need to do that? He sleeps in an old coat hood that is lined with fleece so I dont worry about him hibernating but he is lethargic.

Should I also get a thermostat space heater and set it to 23C (roughly 74F) just for this room? Is that overkill?

The next set of questions are the basic ones for new owners. I was at uni but my family got Togo when he was 8 weeks old, from a breeder, but he is really, really shy. My brother takes him out every night, holds him for a bit (with gloves, this guy hurts!) lets him have a run around on an old towel (the same one, always) and puts him back, usually about 20 minutes before I came home, and now closer to 40 to an hour with half of that being held in cupped hands away from our bodies (I have been reading up!), sometimes gently bouncing to try and encourage him to unroll. And for a bit it seemed to work. But starting last week, and with no change in diet, he freaked out. Now he jumps at every small noise, balls up if you pick him up, really tries to jab his spines into you, if put down, he may stick his head out but quickly balls up again, or sits normally but with his nose tucked in. Is this normal? If we are taking him out every night, how long before we should be getting worried that its not working?

He also hates being stroked at the moment. We just started putting in a shirt that my bro has been wearing for a few days in his hood (like I said before, an old skiing hood and he loves it, its super warm, even when the room temp drops). We would never think of giving up (we have had our fair share of stray cats, hamsters that bite, you name it) but my bro (11) is understandably upset that he isnt anything like the ones we met at a garden centre (a year old and loved being touched, held, stroked, cuddled).

He started self anointing recently and for a couple of days he was super into everything. Sniff sniff, lick, foam, sneeze, try again. But he doesnt do that any more. Is that normal too?

We have been trying not to reward him for balling up but now its all he does, how do we combat that?

And I noticed a little dry skin today. Time for a bath I think (though he is super clean by hedgie standards by all I have read, poops only in his wheel, clean feet, keeps it away from his bed, doesnt smell at all). 2" in a sink, oats in a bag for a bath wash. Warm enough for a baby. All correct? Anything else? Followed by a nice warm towel and half an hour tucked inside my or my brothers jumper to keep warm?

Are we doing it right?

I can get you a video of him jumping and hating being out if it helps. We only get him out in warm rooms when we do. Im trying to do it all by the book but I need some advice. Sorry my first post is a wall of text. Thanks.


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## Prickerz (Sep 17, 2014)

Ok- first, his activity level has dropped because he is probably WAY too cold!! A space heater will do loads better than a heat mat. A heat mat only heats the floor and hedgehogs need the air to be warm. Get a thermometer in there so you know the temperature of his area. Ideally you should have a ceramic heating lamp set up, but a space heater will work OK too. It should be between 74 and 80- let his activity level tell you where he is most comfortable. 
You have him in a tank?? They do not offer enough ventilation. And rarely enough room. You really should have him in a sterilite bin with holes drilled, an C&C cage, or I have a standard rabbit cage. This could also be why he isn't as active. 

Don't use gloves. Use a fleece sack, or a blanket then let him sleep in it while he is on your lap. You really have to handle him so he can get used to your scent.


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## albions-angel (Dec 20, 2014)

I say tank because I am not sure of the name for it. Its about the right size looking at what other people use, and it was recommended to us by the breeder. Its a plastic base, a perspex upper half (that can detach) and then a standard grill at the top that spans the whole tank. But ill look into getting a pic on here and looking at other options. He also has a ferret wheel and uses it (or so I am told). 

Space heater is what I would get, just because of other things I have read about heat lamps. Ill set one up now. i think I have an old one lying around. He is right next to the radiator and he sleeps far warmer than the tanks ambient temperature, but I will admit I am worried about the room. Its fine for us, but it is below that 74 that most people recommend (though in his bed is nice and snug at 80 when he is in there too). 

We use the gloves to lift him and cradle him. We sit him on our laps without a towel and he sometimes goes to sleep, usually just spits and grumbles :/ The gloves are really necessary. I know we shouldnt use them but I switched them from using leather ones to cloth ones and told them to sleep with them under my brothers pillow. He is drawing blood though and there is no way my brother can hold him without the gloves. Even I cant help flinching every time.

Thanks for the advice


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## albions-angel (Dec 20, 2014)

Ok, so I bumped the radiator up earlier and just checked his house. Its now 23C (73.4F) and Im gunna keep the heat mat (having a warm patch seems to be suggested everywhere) and he is out of his house early tonight! Maybe he is feeling warm! Gunna keep my eye on it.

Here is the promised shot of his tank, and a quick shot of the little thing himself on Mum



http://imgur.com/zXb6P


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## sc2001 (Oct 12, 2014)

Silent spinner wheels are not recommended for hedgehogs. The slits in the wheel have been know to rip, ff nails and toes. If you keep it, look into patching the holes. Some people use a hot glue gun to fill the holes and then smooth the glue so It's even with the surface of the wheel.


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## albions-angel (Dec 20, 2014)

The slits are only shallow grooves on the inside and do not go through all the way. Is that still a problem? 

Just tried to give him his first bath. He did not like that one bit. Followed all the advice but he just wouldnt have it. Kept trying to run up the walls of the sink, raised himself right out of the water, freaked out when we tried to pick him up, sulked in his towel, sulked out of his towel, sulked on my chest, sulked until we put him back. Now he is sulking in his pipe. I was led down, watching strictly, he was on my chest, I was totally still and he was jumping at nothing at all. My chest is sore and bleeding now. What is up with our hedgehog?

I mean is there a problem with his spikes? They are all over the place, they dont lie flat at all, ever, some even point forward. What is up with him?


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## nikki (Aug 28, 2008)

Be very careful with the heat mat, they are known for causing low temperature burns. This happens when the hedgehog is sleeping on it and their skin gets nice and warm. Not warm enough to hurt or to seem hot but warm enough to cause a break down in the skin and then this causes a burn and then a sore. This is just one of the reasons that heat mats aren't recommended. You also don't want a "hot spot" in the cage because when the hedgehog moves away from it they become chilled and this can cause URI's or hibernation attempts. You want the entire cage at the same constant temperature.


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## albions-angel (Dec 20, 2014)

Ok  I was following the advice on Hedgehog Head Quarters about keeping them warm and it suggested a heat mat (which is under the cage and raises the temperature of that third of the cage by .5 of a degree (from 23 everywhere to 23.5C)) but ill keep a very close eye on it for now. 

It seems like everything I have read is totally at odds to what you people do. How on earth did any of your start if all this information is just wrong


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## sc2001 (Oct 12, 2014)

Most websites give very wrong information. This is the only website that I have found that actually gives good info. I would say follow the info on here. 

I also felt like I was doing everything wrong when I first found this website. 

By the way, my hedgie also HATES baths. She tries desperately to get out


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## albions-angel (Dec 20, 2014)

I guess ill keep trying different things and use what works. Stuff must be on the other websites because it works for someone. At least for the bigger sites. 

I just wish I knew why he is so much grumpier than most other peoples. Or why everyone else seems to have hedgehogs that let them pick them up from day 1 while Togo draws blood all the time and actively ball up and JUMP towards your hand like a bull. Or why he was happy a week ago but now just sits on the floor and hisses and puffs out his spikes. He does seem more active and earlier today and I think its because I got his temp up. 

Im still worried that everyone else has pictures of nice neat hedgies with all their spines pointing from head to tail while togo looks a mess with spikes every which way. Im worried that I am the only one in this house that was worried he might be cold. Or that Im the only one looking stuff up about him. Im not here 70% of the year. Im scared the more I read this forum that mum and my brother made a terrible mistake and I am trying desperately to make the hedgehog happy and able to be cuddled before I go back to uni in January because if I dont my brother will give up and mum wont have time. 

Im a grown man and I just want to cry.


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## nikki (Aug 28, 2008)

Has he quilled yet? If not he might be quilling, are you finding any quills? Also some hedgehogs get grumpy for a while, kind of like adolescence in kids. I wouldn't be worried about how grumpy he seems it can take quite awhile for some hedgehogs to settle into a new home.


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## albions-angel (Dec 20, 2014)

Apparently he quilled while I was away. He was scratching and quills were falling out. I havnt seen a quill on the ground or in his enclosure since I got home (a week ago) so I assume he has stopped.

If you dont think 2 months is unusual for a grumpy hedgie to still be settling in I would sleep easier. He does seem better in some things. Ill keep trying to use my bare hands but he really, really hurts and I am not kidding about him drawing blood. I always thought african hedgehogs had rubbery spines compared to their european cousins but this guy is like a pin cushion.


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## sc2001 (Oct 12, 2014)

gosh on sorry you're so frustrated. 

The small things like heating and stuff can be fixed quickly. But the behavior of the hedgie will take time. I am not sure why you're hedgie is so grumpy. But it might honestly be the quilling. Hedgies can remain pretty grumpy during and after quilling.

It may take a very long time for your hedgie to be ok with being handled. I've heard of some people working with their hedgie for over a year until they have a breakthrough. 

Keep working with him! Togo is still very young so there is plenty of time to improve. 2 month old hedgies are usually very grumpy so I'm honestly not very surprised. Read up on bonding treads and try everything. Just remember that u definitely won't see results right away. 

And when u say draw blood, do you mean he is biting or his quills are drawing blood?


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## albions-angel (Dec 20, 2014)

Quills. He doesnt bite. Not once. He also doesnt poop or pee when being handled but has no trouble going in his wheel. He keeps it all confined to a tiny area of his cage which we appreciate. The stools are about right from what I have read so he diet is fine. We are using high quality dry cat food, and throwing in small bits of chicken (which he loves) carrot and even wet cat food (high quality, because one of our cats has a gas problem) every now and then and the chicken also serves as a treat when he is out of his cage and "bonding", usually like Velcro. 

In many respects he is the perfect hedgehog. Unfortunately the social aspect is the one we encounter most often.


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## sc2001 (Oct 12, 2014)

Ah yes when my hedgie used to raise her quills there would be many marks all over my hands. Usually bloody little spots. That's pretty normal. I got used to it after a while though.


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## nikki (Aug 28, 2008)

Two months isn't unusual, some hedgehogs can take 6 months or more to completely settle in. I wouldn't be to worried about it as long as he's eating, drinking and pooping good and stays active.  Don't panic, they love to make us crazy


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## xorenaa (Jul 11, 2014)

My boyfriend definitely understands what you're going through, haha. We brought our girl home two months ago and while we've hit it off since Day 1, she will not relax with him for anything. She's drawn blood before, she hates when I pass her off for their bonding time, and she hates if he even so much as sighs when he's holding her. :roll: She eats the treats that he tries to bribe her with and goes right back to huffing at him. It's definitely frustrating, but it's just something that you have to keep working at.

If you don't want to pick him up with your bare hands, try using a t-shirt (like the one that you've been keeping in the cage with your brother's scent) to pick him up instead of gloves. I had to do that with my hedgie when I first brought her home, and my boyfriend still needs to do it to even hold her. It won't be as poke-proof as gloves, but it'll be better in terms of having your scent on it, he will have some places to hide his face if he wants, and you can manipulate it while you're holding him in case he tries to run around.

Good luck, hopefully he'll warm up to you guys soon.


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## MomLady (Aug 14, 2010)

Couple of things that have worked for me. 

I pick my Nara up with fleece blankets when I first get her up, I just cut up fleece into pieces about 8 -10 inches square. They are always pickey-pokey when they first wake up.

When you have him out for bonding, have you tried using a snuggle sack or bonding bag--or even a few pieces of fleece for him to hide in. They can relax and not be so defensive if they are not feeling exposed. Also try keeping the lights very dim and keeping very quiet. I have even taken Nara out in the dark and held her and then talked softly to her. Some people discuss movies, just very calmly and softly. 

Make sure you bond with him every night, even 20 to 30 minutes is good. 

Time and patience--some of us had to wait months for our hedgies to warm up. 

Have you had a vet visit yet? My Nara always "loves"me more after being at the mean ol' vet!


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## ChocolatePintoHoglet (Nov 15, 2014)

I just keep our heating on 20 at all times (if the rest of the house is too warm for me i turn off all the other radiators & leave his on), i got a room thermometre in his cage and it reads 23-24 all the time x

With the settling in.. Ive had mine for nearly 2 monthes-since he was 8wks old.. Handle him & give him treats everyday, let him sleep in a blanket on my lap, & put a tshirt ive worn in his bed for him to sleep in.. But he STILL is a grumpy ball of quills & hatred who hates me lol. Every day i see a tiny bit of improvement he lets his guard down but the next minute hes huffing again!! I get covered in bloodspots from his quills!! U just gota be patient, gentle, but dont leave him as soon as he huffs or he will learn that behaviour makes us go away, needs to learn we mean no harm  ive read some hogs taking 6+ monthes! Theyre hard work but its sooo worth it when u have a breakthrough (lastnite he fell asleep in my hand i couldnt believe it!!!) x


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## Prickerz (Sep 17, 2014)

I can tell you first off that this forum has ALOT of experienced moderators, who are far better than anyone offering information on those other sites. MANY of our members have been working with these animals for decades. Breeding, or just keeping them- they know what works through personal experience, not from reading it somewhere. 
Is there any way you can take him with you?? The hedgehog will die if he is not kept warm enough. He needs someone who actually cares about his well being.

That cage is very nice!! But, getting it up off of the floor will also help keep the little guy warmer. As far as the difference in temp- 80 in his sleeping area and 74 for the rest of the cage- that does cause a concern. He can get sick from a change like that. 
We are offering you the correct information, I promise.


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## albions-angel (Dec 20, 2014)

Sorry I caused confusion with the temps. The cage is 23C (or about 73 and a half F). Its only 80 INSIDE the ski hood, with him in it, ie, with the insulation and his bodyheat. Its more or less his temperature at that point. But Ill keep an eye on maintaining overall equal temperatures throughout the cage. 

There isnt really anywhere off the floor we can put him, though the floor has a thick carpet, is warm and I have now placed the heat mat more central and covered it with something to spread the heat out evenly (and got a thermostat) so it clicks on when the cage gets too cold and warms it from the bottom up. The thermo measures the floor temp so he doesnt burn. Ive been DIYing. If things dont improve (and frankly the temperature in the cage already has) I will request that he is moved into the kitchen where there is underfloor heating and an Aga stove oven. 

I cant take him back. Uni is not a suitable place for him. At all. Besides, he is my brothers. I panicked last night, and I feel more at ease with the advice ive been given  Thank you all. Ill keep at it.


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## albions-angel (Dec 20, 2014)

Ok guys. Hes had a run around for 10 minutes and seemed very happy. We have picked him up for mandatory cuddle time. Thats my bro holding him. He is staying very still. The shirt he is sat on is the one he sleeps with.

Togo is snuffing and hissing every 30 seconds or so, then settles down. He isnt asleep and he isnt inquisitive. But he isnt freaking out. Is this about right?



http://imgur.com/Lygfa


The room looks a lot brighter than it is. its currently lit by 2 table lamps and the tv, nothing else. Its dark enough for me to want to turn lights on, but I was using a pro camera on night time setting. Also a complimentary beauty shot of him playing just moments ago (the patch is new, he just anointed with some of the toilet tube you can see).


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## Prickerz (Sep 17, 2014)

Awww!! Are your toilet paper tubes cut so he can't get his face stuck??
And it'll help him feel more comfortable to have a "cave" or hiding spot he can go in while he is on your brother's lap


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## sc2001 (Oct 12, 2014)

Cute!!! 

And that's awesome that he isn't freaking out! That's a great start so far. 

And like what Prickerz said, having something to hide it may make it even better! Like a snuggle sack. That's what I use.


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## albions-angel (Dec 20, 2014)

Yes the tubes are cut  First thing I did. He does like to eat them though. And the more he chews any particular one the less he likes it. Ok, ill look into snuggle sacks. Thanks guys.


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