# Behavior changes



## Jaite (Dec 27, 2014)

It has been awhile since my last post but my hedgehog (Daisy, 3 years old) has been acting weird lately. I noticed she wasn't eating and I was replacing her bowl of full food almost every day. She doesn't run on her wheel too often anymore but I figure because she was just fat.

Anyways, she has a little sister (Matilda) and they usually sleep together. So monitoring food on the night cam gets hard because I can't tell whose eating after falling asleep. I make the assumption Daisy is not eating because she is usually the one who clears out the bowl...

Recently I noticed Daisy had this heavy breathing problem although I see no signs of her struggling because she is acting very lethargic/lazy and usually just sits there. But I watched the back of her quills and you can see it pulsing consistently. Her snout had also shown signs of heavy breathing as if she was gasping for air (nostrils opening bigger then smaller consistently) but still no signs of a struggle. This was the first sign to me that it was something more than just behavior changes.

*Living situation: *

1. Fleece lining
2. Baby blankets for warmth/darkness(Temp gauge inside home always around 72-78)
3. Ceramic heating
4. Purina Beyond Grain free - Chicken (Only)

*New Variables:*

1. New AC unit installed (ran it around 72-74) at night for 2-3 days. This was something different, since then I have stopped running it to see if it was causing her problems. No changes and don't think she is hibernating.

2. I always thought she was snoring but she often made wheezing or squeaking noises while sleeping. To me, it was normal but worth mentioning.

*Symptoms: 3-year-old, female hedgehog*

1. Barely eating
2. Breathing heavily
3. Lethargic

*Update for today + new changes/concerns:*

1. Made a vet appointment for 3 PM
2. Fed her mealworms over the weekend but this morning she just chewed them and just left it there. (was weird because she usually loves these)
3. Moves around slowly as if crippled/weak.
4. Modified her huge cage from stair levels to ground levels because she seemed like she couldn't walk up or down her ramps + was weak.

Anyways, any advice or previous experiences or insights would be greatful.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

Vet is the right decision. You'll also need to start syringe-feeding her ASAP if she's not eating on her own. They shouldn't go more than a day or two without eating, they go downhill even faster without food. If you see this before your appointment or if you can catch the vet before they close, ask about Carnivore Care or Hills A/D. Both are foods meant for syringing to sick animals. They should also be able to give you some syringes if you need them.


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## Pixel101 (Dec 11, 2016)

Also hedgehogs should have separate cages


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## Jaite (Dec 27, 2014)

Update for others in the future:

Took her to the vet, the vet found nothing wrong. In fact he said she was very healthy (pulp).....he also said she showed no signs of WHS or pain but maybe she has a tumor in her snoutway but we can't see that(around 3 year mark is when it often happens he said). Besides that, he just said she might have a sinus infection for the laborious breathing. I was not convinced but we took the antibiotics route for now. I guess up next is the Xrays but he said that was difficult too because of the quills.

Who knows, for now, I will just make her life as easy as possible. Seems that the Vet was trying to say that it is hard to determine what is wrong even if we did all the latter.2


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## Jaite (Dec 27, 2014)

Pixel101 said:


> Also hedgehogs should have separate cages


I do have 2 cages (always did for them both), but honestly, they have been together for 2.5 years now and I don't see a good enough reason to separate them (unless I can be convinced otherwise). They are both from the same breeder and in my opinion like the company of each other. They sleep right next to each other every night, there is no competition between food, wheels, etc.

But even if I did separate them, I think they would become more stress as they have been together for a long time. They literally snuggle next to each other everytime I check in on them. I really do think that taking one away from the other would only create stress.

Besides that, I started monitoring them on my night cam now with a recording device. Seems both hedgehogs are barely eating, these problems are never ending it seems.


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## ArizonaHazelnut (Nov 16, 2016)

Jaite said:


> They sleep right next to each other every night, there is no competition between food, wheels, etc.


Just a note, (and maybe you already have it set up like this) if you have two hedgehogs housed together, you need two of everything. Two wheels, two food/water dishes, two hides, etc. There should never be a need for "competition" for food or wheels (even if they get along), because everything is doubled in the cage.

Also, the minimum square foot for one hedgehog is 4 square feet...so two housed together is a minimum of 8 square feet total.

Cheers!


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## Jaite (Dec 27, 2014)

ArizonaHazelnut said:


> Just a note, (and maybe you already have it set up like this) if you have two hedgehogs housed together, you need two of everything. Two wheels, two food/water dishes, two hides, etc. There should never be a need for "competition" for food or wheels (even if they get along), because everything is doubled in the cage.
> 
> Also, the minimum square foot for one hedgehog is 4 square feet...so two housed together is a minimum of 8 square feet total.
> 
> Cheers!


Yes, they have 2 of everything: wheels, litter, food/water bowls, even places to sleep if they didn't want to sleep in their usual spot (they never do, always together). The home they live in is 24-26 square feet. I like to think that I have given my hedgehogs a pretty good life.

Anyways, I feel like my hedgehog is going to die so I am just going to give her the best life I can till that comes. I didn't really expect people to just criticize their living conditions, I was looking for advice on the health of my hedgehog. I have had these hedgehogs for a while and I think I know what is best for them (yours might be different). If I thought this set up was the/a problem, it would have never happened or remained.


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## Jaite (Dec 27, 2014)

Also, I saw a snot bubble this morning and started reading the URI section. It seems like the symptoms other posters talk about matches my hedgehogs.

Hopefully, the antibiotics help and sorry if I wrote these replies like an *******, I am just frustrated.


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## ArizonaHazelnut (Nov 16, 2016)

Hello! I wasn't trying to criticize you at all, (if you notice I said "and maybe you already have it set up like this"). We just see a lot of people on here who don't know the proper requirements for hedgehogs. Your set-up sounds wonderful for hedgehogs! Fantastic!

I'm very sorry your hedgehog isn't doing well. Have you considered trying to see if there is another vet in the area who might be able to give you a second opinion?


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## Jaite (Dec 27, 2014)

ArizonaHazelnut said:


> Hello! I wasn't trying to criticize you at all, (if you notice I said "and maybe you already have it set up like this"). We just see a lot of people on here who don't know the proper requirements for hedgehogs. Your set-up sounds wonderful for hedgehogs! Fantastic!
> 
> I'm very sorry your hedgehog isn't doing well. Have you considered trying to see if there is another vet in the area who might be able to give you a second opinion?


Yeah, my fault really and by the time I was editing my post the forums didn't allow it. Was meant to be nicer but nonetheless, yes I think we will visit another vet but my breeder contacted me today. Hopefully, he has better information..I feel like paying the vet $100 for him to tell us Daisy is sick becomes a little expensive.


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## Jaite (Dec 27, 2014)

An update for the sake of anyone else who runs into this in the future.

So after the first vet visit, we had her on Baytril and was told basically he didn't know what was wrong. She was still eating and drinking but only when syringe fed with A/D and what ever she will drink (but she barely ate it, she hated it). She was still showing signs of heavy breathing, tired and weak legs, not eating or running on her wheel. 

The breeder never replied to my email after agreeing to meet, therefore we never saw the breeder. We also decided a second Vet visit was not worth it due to our experience from the first.

A week later, we saw blood in her poop. At this point, we figured she was sick from something internally and causing her to not eat. I discussed this with my significant other and we decided that we would not pursue anymore Vet care.

Over the last week, we continue to debate whether or not we should get a second opinion. But ultimately still agreed that our little hedgie was too weak to go under for surgery. Our decision solely based on the lack luster information we got from the Vet (he talked about the different types of ways and things we had to do in order to determine what she was sick with). Nonetheless, we just wanted her to live comfortably until her time. I think she is suffering, today we talked about putting her down. That decision should be made soon in the next couple of days.

For now...

She is leaking a lot of blood or should I say black looking liquid (like dried blood) from her anus (unsure if this is stool). She is a lot weaker than usual and simply won't eat anymore and just lays there now. Like I said, tomorrow we are going to decide what to do. For the mean time does anyone know if we can ease her pain with any basic over the counter meds until we can get her to the vet for her good byes or if we do decide to just let her pass at home.

Also, I understand that some people might not agree with our decisions but I believe this is whats best based on our/her situation. I don't know if we can save her even if we paid another few hundred dollars among other concerns.


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## Artemis-Ichiro (Jan 22, 2016)

Sorry to hear she is getting worse. But since you already decided to not to provide more vet care and due to her symptoms, i would think the humane thing to do is to let her go right away; she's probably in pain and that is not fair to her.


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## Jaite (Dec 27, 2014)

Artemis-Ichiro said:


> Sorry to hear she is getting worse. But since you already decided to not to provide more vet care and due to her symptoms, i would think the humane thing to do is to let her go right away; she's probably in pain and that is not fair to her.


Yeah, we talked about that. We see it as killing her at the vet through what ever procedure they will do or her dying at home in some kind of pain. I am sure she is suffering but both ways are just so dark and gloomy though.

But like I said, some people might not agree with these decisions we have yet to make. It is okay to disagree and we understand how hard this decision is for us.


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## nikki (Aug 28, 2008)

It's obvious that she's suffering and the humane thing is to end her suffering as soon as possible. There is no advantage to her to allow her to keep suffering. As a pet owner we take on that responsibility to make the right choice.


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## Jaite (Dec 27, 2014)

nikki said:


> It's obvious that she's suffering and the humane thing is to end her suffering as soon as possible. There is no advantage to her to allow her to keep suffering. As a pet owner we take on that responsibility to make the right choice.


I understand that views and opinions often conflict but I respect your opinion and input and hope you respect mine aswell. Afterall, we are all here for the same reasons, for the health and well being of our hedgehogs and not to debate about what we think is right and wrong.

Anyways, we decided this morning that it was time to her go, for her sake. She was a lot weaker than she had ever been during this sickness/illness/whatever happened to her. The spark of life/hope of recovery we saw in her last week was simply not there anymore.

The appointment was for later today but she passed an hour ago.

I wanted to take the time to thank everyone for sharing insightful and constructive information. It was valuable to both me and my girlfriend and of course for Daisy.


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## Quillys_Mom_Punky (Apr 19, 2017)

Jaite, my condolences. It sounds like her last days were filled with love. 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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