# Baby hoglet's health



## lucky18ea (Nov 24, 2008)

Hi all, I'm starting to have some questions about the breeder we chose...

First off, we sent her a deposit and picked our baby, a split face little female from a litter of 5 that was born on 10/20/09. That was fine but now the breeder is being a little short with us. What I mean by that is that our little girl is really small.. 37g as opposed to the 90-100g she should be (according to the breeder). When I asked her about taking her to the vet (since the litter mates are 90g and up), she replied:



> "the other babies are about 90 grams, and growing. I've made inquiries from other breeders and am awaiting their responses.
> I'll keep you posted. My vet here is good for basic things, but not things like that. Unfortunately, to get to a really good vet, I'd have to travel about an hour and a half. I've found that with babies that are so small, there is really not much they can do. It's nature. I will keep you posted."


That _for me raised a concern because even though she could just be the runt, there could also be something wrong with the hoglet too, right? I would think in "breeder land" that most would drive the hour and a half to take that baby to the vet *just* to be sure that theres nothing underlying causing her to not be at the weight that she should be.

Here is her previous e-mail




"I traditionally take pics every couple of weeks for new owners. I've attached pics of her mom, Ms. Frizzle, for you to enjoy, today. Her father's pic is up on the website.

Her belly is just a soft cream colored fur, as is typical of all hedgehogs. She is a friendly little gal. She is very small, which at the time, is concerning me a bit. I'll let you know next weekend if we may need to put off picking her up. She only weighs 37 grams. At this point in time, she should be around 90 - 100 grams. I've been breeding hedgies for 4 years almost, and have never seen this. It is quite puzzling to me. She is even munching now on kibble, like she should for her age, she walks fine, can pull up, is strong, and is s real sweetheart, but is just sooo small. I won't let you go home with a hedgie that is not perfectly healthy, or growing right until I know she is ok. If she hasn't made a hundred grams in the next 10 days, you will have a decision to make as to keep waiting for her, or take another female from that litter. I've got all the females in that litter on hold just in case. I mean, she seeeeems fine, just TINY, so it has me totally perplexed! Pray for her! I will keep you posted almost daily each time I weigh her, so you can see, with me, how she is gaining weight. I am totally up front and honest with people about their hedgies, because it is important! I don't tell you this to worry you, but to let you know and to be prepared. Be prepared for what? Hopefully, just a relatively smaller hedgehog."

Click to expand...

_


----------



## Ahava (Mar 25, 2009)

Well from that first email, it seems to me that the breeder really does care about her hedgies and she is trying to be up front and honest with you about everything. However, if you are already in possession of her and feel that you want to take her to the vet, do so! You don't need the breeder's permission. Some hoglet's are runts and it doesn't seem (to me) as if this breeder is trying to hide anything from you. So, if you have your baby girl, take her to the vet if you want to. She should have a check up anyway. If the breeder still has her, then she is the breeder's responsibility and I'm sure that if anything were wrong she would make sure the baby was taken care of.

That might just be my point of view though, so hope everything works out!


----------



## LizardGirl (Aug 25, 2008)

What breeder is this, or what is her website? She does seem to care BUT no good breeder would be without an excellent vet that they can get to anytime for any reason. Emergencies happen when you are breeding, and I don't think it's responsible to not have a good vet nearby.

It's possible your girl is normal, or she could be a runt, or she could be sick. I'm hoping she's normal. =)


----------



## LarryT (May 12, 2009)

Sunshine Quills in florida is the breeder.
http://www.sunshinequillhedgehogs.com/available.html

I have never heard anything bad about the hedgehogs sunshine quills sells or has sold but i did read a post from nancy that said she won a wheel in a contest from sunshine quills over 6 months ago and she still has not received her prize.

I would like to buy the reverse pinto from this litter he is stunning!

edit reason spelling


----------



## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

I wouldn't worry about there being a problem with the baby yet. Yes she is very small right now and that sometimes happens. My Yuri is at 14 months old is almost 1000g and as well as being overweight, he is also has a very large structure. When Yuri was 3.5 weeks old he weighed 37g. I started supplementing him and by 4 weeks he was up to 51 and gained great after that. 

I agree there is no reason to take her to the vet and the stress of a vet visit would probably do more harm than good. A vet will not be able to tell what is causing her low weight. There is something that breeders call "failure to thrive" that the babies reach a certain point and quit growing and will die. All that I've heard of have been younger than your little girl but you will definitely know prior to her being old enough to go home if that is her problem. If Helen starts to supplement her then you will know soon enough if she is going to start growing. Sometimes a baby will get pushed away by the bigger ones and although every time the others nursed, Yuri would be nursing too, he obviously wasn't getting enough. 

I don't see anything wrong with how Helen is dealing with it. She is being honest and upfront with you and has another baby for you if this little girl does not start to grow. If she had not been upfront with you about her size, that would have been a concern. 

I would wait and see what happens. By the time she is ready to go home she could be normal size. I don't know at what age Helen lets them go to new homes but I'm betting she will keep her a week or two longer just to be certain. 

Heehee, Yeah Larry, I am still waiting for my wheel. Nine months and counting. :lol:


----------



## Herisson (Jan 7, 2009)

I met Ms. Frizzle on 10/17/09 and she was not only beautiful, but very sweet. It's very sad she has passed.

Bless her soul.


----------



## aesthetics (Sep 2, 2009)

My breeder held back the female I was getting, as she was underweight initially, too. So we waited about another two weeks and she hit the "100g" mark. My breeder I went through said she gained about 5 grams a day. Not sure if this applies to most generic babies, but, all information is valuable information.

Needless to say, she's always been rather small until recently, (she's about 6 1/2 mos) she's gotten insanely big, and appears more normal. She literally eats like a hog. 

But yeah, you may have a point. If somethings wrong, they're obligated to take the animal to the vet. I mean, that's just morality for everyone, but a breeder not only has a reputation to hold up (I probably wouldn't link her site, if it was me, as most will be judgmental about this situation, good or bad), but should maintain a level of respect for the animals that they've decided to breed. Just like Ahava said, it's the breeder's responsibility. Everyone says people shouldn't breed for money, yet some are more willing to risk one little baby animal, than pay a $50 dollar check up fee. Idk.

She could just need more time. Wait the ten days, and make a decision? Ask her to set a target date, and to record her weight daily. That way you can shuffle in an exact weight gain per day, and perhaps find the median, and determine when she would reach the right day, whilst weighing 100 grams. Simple math.


----------



## LarryT (May 12, 2009)

I'm getting the reverse pinto male from this litter :mrgreen: 
lucky18ea is riding down to fla. from NC a 12 hour trip one way  and she is going pick my boy up when she gets her girl  and bring him home to me  such a nice Lady  thanks so much lucky18ea I could not have got him without your help since i'm unable to ride long distances due to a near deadly car accident 7 years ago that left me in a wheelchair for quite sometime.
Thanks Larry


----------



## Kalandra (Aug 25, 2008)

Reading through this and reading the breeder's webpage I have to wonder if the problem isn't that the foster mother is running low on milk and with some supplementation she will gain in time. I've only had 1 litter of hedgehogs (and that was over 13 years ago), but it happened to us. Momma started to run out of milk early and I had to bottle feed. One would eat the syringed food from a bowl on his own, but the other refused to eat and had to be bottle fed. She ended up doing just fine, just took some extra work time.

Just some thoughts I had.


----------



## sunshinequill (Dec 1, 2009)

It seems I'm the breeder in question here.

I need to let you know that I am in DAILY contact with this new hedgie family, and am giving them updates on their baby's weight. I am happy with her growth now. We began feeding Royal Canin Baby Cat, and supplementing with some puppy formula mixed with rice cereal and crushed kibble. The babies are growing and are doing marvelously. They are still small, but they are healthy and growing.

I contacted several breeder friends of mine when I first became concerned, and being the overly cautious person that I am, have held back another female from the litter, just in case. That is probably unnecessary, but I like to cover my bases!

I have several decent hedgehog vets in our immediate area that can do things like c sections, and the likes, if there are emergencies, but something different like this, if I felt it was becoming life threatening and super serious, I would want to take to the better vet, which is farther away. To have taken her there, could have been even worse due to stress from travel, being at the vet, and the amt. of time being away from mom, so, I did research with other hedgehog breeders to find out if they thought a visit was warranted. Unanimously, no one thought it was. The baby then began to gain more weight and seems fine in every other way, so we didn't go to the vet.

I appreciate the concern that my new hedgie family has for their baby. They will make wonderful, attentive hedgehog moms.

Helen Justis
http://www.sunshinequillhedgehogs.com


----------



## LizardGirl (Aug 25, 2008)

Helen,

I'm glad you have vets nearby. I was under the impression that you didn't have a vet, I'm sorry if I offended you.


----------



## sunshinequill (Dec 1, 2009)

Lizard Girl,

No offense taken. I needed to clarify!

Helen Justis
www.sunshinequillhedgehogs.com


----------



## LarryT (May 12, 2009)

I'm getting a baby boy from this litter a reverse pinto!!
Helen has been great keeping me informed on my boy and his weight gain,also helen sent me 10 pictures of my boy yesterday he is looking good!
I will try to post a few pictures later if I can figure out how to resize them :?
I would recommend Helen to anyone looking for a hedgie,she is wonderful answers all emails quickly and has always been super nice to me even after every dumb question i've asked :lol:


----------



## mel2626 (Sep 28, 2009)

Larry, I can't wait to see more pix of the reverse pinto boy.  I'm kind of in love with with him from the pic I saw~such interesting markings! lol


----------



## Bengall77 (Aug 1, 2009)

I got my hedgehog Quillbert from Sunshine Quills. She is a wonderful breeder (at least in my experience with her) and I never had a problem with her. She made sure that I had been educating myself on hedgehog care and that I would have an adequate wheel and cage. If I remember correctly she also has a health guarantee on her babies so go ahead and take her to the vet. She may just be small. If that's the case then she should probably stay with the breeder for a little while longer until she gets to a more appropriate weight.


----------



## sunshinequill (Dec 1, 2009)

Thanks everyone for your votes of confidence. Those were unsolicited! These babies are still here and I am keeping them longer until they are at a wieght when I feel they will do well on a long journey home and away from my watchful care. I've grown quite attached to these two babies...I'm so glad they are going to such wonderful homes where their new families will care for them so well. Yes, I do offer a health warrenty, and even will help with vet costs up to a certain point, if both the owner and I feel a vet visit is necessary in the first 3 months after baby has gone home. I've done that before, and would do it again. The baby is doing soooo well now, and is gaining weight beautifully. She is gaining 5 grams a day at LEAST. We're well under way now. I had just never seen such slow growth in a baby before. Now I know not to worry so much.


----------



## Herisson (Jan 7, 2009)

Herisson LOVES his wheel from Sunshine Quills! It's well made and very easy to clean. The wheel was custom made just for him due his large size and Helen even confirmed that I wanted a pink wheel for my boy. ----> (Blame me) 

I was also impressed with all of the hedgehogs, especially Ms. Frizzle. How Helen keeps everything so clean is amazing. :mrgreen:


----------

