# Sleeping ALL the time... ???



## Dinsdale (Jan 31, 2016)

Hey folks~ I'm new to hedgie ownership and have had a male for a couple of months, he's about 4 mos. old now... He just started not getting up at night and hasn't been up doing his usual running laps around his cage for two nights. Temp. has been consistent 75ish with a heating pad under his igloo and a ceramic lamp style heater. His stool and urine seem fine, he's warm to the touch, he'll eat if I put him in front of his dish or offer him a snack and did get up to drink earlier today. Just not his usual craziness at night. I do intend to call my vet in the am, but wondered if anyone could offer any insight in the meantime? He seems clear and chipper when I get him up, but doesn't get up to run just like that. Weird... Thanks for any advice you can offer!! Worried about the little guy...


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## Kalandra (Aug 25, 2008)

What is your lighting setup for him light? How much light does he receive daily?


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## Dinsdale (Jan 31, 2016)

Thanks for the feedback!! Well, his cage is in the window, and he's in the dining room so he gets sunlight and ambient light from the lighted room, but I don't have a "light set up" for him so to speak... It's light in the room, likely about 12 hours a day at least.


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## twobytwopets (Feb 2, 2014)

Have you tried taking the heating pad out?


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## Dinsdale (Jan 31, 2016)

I have not. I was wondering if he might be too warm though because he was splatted out on it on Friday... Frog Hog style. That was also the first night he didn't get up. I cleaned his cage this morning and moved the igloo over so it's only half on the heating pad, he's sleeping on the heated half right now.


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## Dinsdale (Jan 31, 2016)

Correction, he's on the half without heat... Saying "why you keep bothering me two legs? Go AWAY!!! Huff, huff, spit and hiss..."


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## Charlotte.the.hedgehog (Nov 15, 2015)

You mentioned running laps around his cage, does he have a wheel?


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## Artemis-Ichiro (Jan 22, 2016)

Sometimes when they have a heating pad they get too comfy and don't want to leave it. Also they can get burnt with it, I would remove it. The frog hog also indicates sometimes being too hot or too comfy


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## Dinsdale (Jan 31, 2016)

He has a wheel, fourth one, and a flying saucer, not impressed with any of it, or the ball. He does "swing" on the flying saucer sometimes, but he likes to run laps around it all in a figure eight-ish pattern. Go figure... LOL It's a big cage though. That's how I know he hasn't been up, there's no track around the cage. 

I do keep the heating pad (it's the hard plastic animal cage kind) covered with thick layers of fleece. I unplugged it, see what that does I guess? Thanks so much for the advice!! I'm all ears...


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## Dinsdale (Jan 31, 2016)

Well, somebody got up to eat his snack about the right time and unprompted, which I find promising. I'm hoping it was all about the heating pad and fixed. I did add a light to the top of his cage for a few hours after sunset too. Fingers crossed that he's active tonight.  He's still going to the vet though!! Thanks again for the advice, I'll let you know how it turns out.


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## twobytwopets (Feb 2, 2014)

The heating pad, think about your bed on a cold morning. The heating pad is like your bed on those cold mornings. You don't want to crawl out but have to handle whatever your responsibilities you have. Hedgehogs don't have responsibilities.


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## Dinsdale (Jan 31, 2016)

You'd think there'd be a little instinctual will to survive there... ??? You know, eating is always good... Going potty and whatnot??? The bed is nice and all, but I'm hungry!! LOL I'm just praying he's all set. I've grown very fond of the young lad.


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## Artemis-Ichiro (Jan 22, 2016)

Sounds great. I don't know if you did it, but a timer on the light would make your life easier too.


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## twobytwopets (Feb 2, 2014)

Yes they have a will to survive. But it is a double edge sword in this situation. If the heat isn't consistent through the whole cage by more than a couple degrees it's a very drastic change for them. Drastic temperature variations can trigger hibernation.


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## Dinsdale (Jan 31, 2016)

They are interesting little creatures, that's for sure. Weird that it'd just be bang, one day fine, next day not coming out anymore, sorry Charlie. I put a space heater in front the cage to boost the heat up. It dropped off quite a bit without the heating pad on, didn't want to send him in the other direction... It's back up in the 70's now, evenly throughout. He was up again, but I was stalking him so he went back in. LOL Trying to just listen and not look.  I'm encouraged by his activity though. It's good.


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## Artemis-Ichiro (Jan 22, 2016)

Have you considered a CHE with a thermostat as a heating source? It's more efficient in the long run. 

You said is in the 70's, that's a wide range and they do better above 73, some need warmer and even temperature.


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## Kalandra (Aug 25, 2008)

Dinsdale said:


> You'd think there'd be a little instinctual will to survive there... ???


Something to consider. While they have a will to survive, there are a number of problems we encounter with hedgehogs that they don't have control over. Hibernation & aestivation is an example of that.

They will attempt hibernation if they are too cold, or don't get enough light. In the wild they have no need to hibernate and lost the ability to truly hibernate. Instead they need to deal with heat, and will aestivate. Our pets will attempt aestivation if they are too hot. Aestivation symptoms are often similar to hibernation symptoms. With the exception that they will splat out in the open in a cooler part of their cage trying to cool down.


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## Dinsdale (Jan 31, 2016)

Can I just say you guys are awesome. Thanks so much for helping us out over here. I'm happy to report that Dinsdale is almost his normal weirdo self today. He was up last night, ate and drank a ton and was happy to anoint himself with my horsie smelling clothing this morning. He's busy tunneling towels right now... I will admit I had to google aestivate and CHE. LOL To be honest, I had no idea there was such a thing as too hot. His breeder did a wonderful meet and greet educational seminar/session before we could take our babies home and she stressed heating so much, I didn't realize there was such a thing as too hot. Who knew? I'm glad you guys did... And, I do heat with a CHE which is not on a thermostat but his cage is very big, and it's been doing ok without the heating pad. I will supplement at night with a space heater and toweled off the top and back along the windows. I might get another one for the other end... It's been a consistent 78 degrees during the day today and I've moved the thermometer around. I'll bump it up a bit tonight when I know he'll be out and the heat in the house is turned down. He's been totally warm when I pick him up and responding much quicker now, unquilling wise. Like, right away as soon as he recognizes my hand. And, is sitting for his mealies again. Such a good boy. LOL


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## Kalandra (Aug 25, 2008)

Usually cold is the problem. We see far too many people who have improper setups and their hedgehogs get chilled.

I'd suggest you add a thermostat & a second CHE setup for your cage. Thermostats are a must when it comes to proper CHE setups. It will help keep the cage at a more consistent temperature range. Also 78 is on the higher side, most do fine closer to 74-75.


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## Dinsdale (Jan 31, 2016)

I thought it was a little warm too, brought it back down to 75 last night without an improvement in his behavior. I really don't seem to have too much trouble managing a consistent temp., I realize now that I've been watching it like hawk and moving the thermometer all over the place. LOL I spoke to his breeder who said her hedgie room is often 80 degrees or even a little higher so she didn't think the heat was an issue, but I'm differing on that after seeing him splatting on his heating pad, getting weird and going off his feed, then eating fairly normally again after I shut it off. He's still eating and acting normal when I get him up, which is an improvement, but he's not active at night and he was very, very active before things suddenly went awry. She also thought maybe he's having a tough time with quilling and did say that babies sleep a ton... But, he hadn't been sleeping a ton at night and I'm not sure that should change with maturity. I wonder if they do aestivate, does it take some time to come back from that once you straighten out the heat? At any rate, the upshot is, he's gone ahead and earned himself a trip to meet our new exotics vet today at 2pm. When in doubt, vet them out.


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## Dinsdale (Jan 31, 2016)

So, the vet couldn't find anything currently wrong with Mr. Dinsdale, but did think that he likely got too warm and with the issue quickly corrected he should return to normal as he's already improving. He also suggested a low dose of an NSAID in case he pulled or strained or injured something during his adventures. So, that's what we're doing and he's been getting up and eating, drinking, going potty in the corner again and whatnot, albeit not quite so crazily as prior, but definitely on the mend I'd say. 
He didn't think that I needed to be crazy about the temp. or light. He said as long as he doesn't have a cool tum and is alert when I collect him, he's fine. He did suggest having a warmer end/cooler end so he can self regulate which is something I've done for reptiles in the past... I'm pretty sure that happens by osmosis with the size of the cage. It does tend to run a couple degrees cooler at the far end. So, onward ho!! Thanks again for your help.


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## Artemis-Ichiro (Jan 22, 2016)

I'm glad he's doing fine. 

Regarding the not to have to be extra careful with light and heat as long as he is not cold to the touch, my take on that is that if you have the right setting he'll be fine instead of risking it, if he tries to hibernate, he can catch a URI and either get very sick or die, so the trial an error thing I don't like, the people here (I'm a new owner too) have lots of experience, probably more than vets so I follow their advice. 

I


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## twobytwopets (Feb 2, 2014)

The reason you have a warm and cool side with reptiles is because they are reptiles. Reptiles are cool blooded, hedgehogs are warm blooded.


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## Dinsdale (Jan 31, 2016)

I get all that... But, I didn't just go "a vet", I went to a vet who's on the ball with exotics. I was referred to him by my both my dog/cat vet and my large animal vet.  I definitely respect and appreciate the advice I got here, it's what prompted me to initially correct the issues causing the issues. But, I will absolutely listen to the advice of a trained and licensed professional who was extremely well versed and is reputably knowledgeable about hedgehogs. He was awesome. Really nice guy and he didn't make Dinsdale huff or roll up throughout the whole exam, so he's ok in our book. LOL

"Dr. Michael Dutton, Clinic owner, has been at the forefront of exotic pet practice for almost 30 years, beginning with his work treating wildlife at Benson's Animal Park in Hudson, NH. 
He founded the Association of Exotic Mammal Veterinarians (AEMV) to help further veterinary knowledge of these pets. Dr. Dutton led the effort to create Exotic Companion Mammals (rabbits, ferrets, guinea pigs, rodents, etc.) as a Specialty Practice under the auspices of the American Board of Veterinary Practitioners. 
He is one of the few triple boarded Veterinary Specialists in the world having specialist status in Avian Practice, Exotic Companion Mammal Practice, and Canine & Feline Practice. He also completed a post-doctoral Master's Degree in Pain Management because he feels that most pets are not adequately treated for pain.
Dr. Dutton also serves as the volunteer veterinarian for Wings of Dawn Wildlife Rehabilitation (Henniker, NH), McLane Audubon (Concord, NH), Massabesic Audubon (Auburn, NH), and a few other smaller wildlife rehabilitators."


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## twobytwopets (Feb 2, 2014)

That's all good and well, I'd advise you to keep an eye out for issues that can arise when a cage doesn't have a consistent temperature. 
Things like, preferring to stay on one side, becoming lethargic, eating and drinking less, wheeling less. Those are issues owners have noticed when a cage had a cooler side.


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## Dinsdale (Jan 31, 2016)

My cage is pretty even, as I've stated, and he does use every square inch of it. I'm just reiterating that our vet advised that a couple of degrees difference really shouldn't bother him and will give him a chance to cool down if he gets hot. He didn't say don't keep him warm, he said I don't have to be completely manic about the temperature. There's a difference.  That sounds reasonable to me, and makes sense. If they couldn't tolerate slight changes in temps, how could we take them out of their environments to offer enrichment and socialization? He's been absolutely fine for two months with the light and heat. I think we had a little warmer snap here and he overheated sleeping on his heating pad in a sunny window and under the igloo, which is what was advised by my breeder who's also had hedgies for years on end, but that was not necessarily appropriate for our situation either. AND, she never told me they can overheat!! I'll certainly keep a close eye on it from now on. It's all good.


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