# some breeders really tick me off



## shawnwk1 (Jul 8, 2011)

people that breed for profit only really tick me off!!! just saw an ad on craigslist with the EXACT same picture that the lady i got my last hedgie from sent me of "my" hedgie weeks before i got him. okay number one why is she using the same picture stating it's a different hedgie? number two this is AT LEAST the second litter her female has had since february (she only has one female and one male unless she was hiding the rest elsewhere in the house which is totally possible)(and i have been keeping a close eye on craigslist just to see how many times she's going to post litters) and yes i know you technically can breed twice a year or whatever. number three she has NO bloodlines known to her about either the male or female so has no idea what she is passing along to these babies and just keeps breeding them. number four her house was filthy and freezing when i went to pick up my baby from her with no alternative heat source for them. the whole situation kinda ticks me off because i know it wasn't a very clean, healthy situation he came from and i know she's not breeding to better bloodlines, but only to make money. 

btw this is unfortunately is not a baby i have any longer, he passed away on may 29th and now i'm really wishing i'd had a necropsy done. 

okay done venting


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## shawnwk1 (Jul 8, 2011)

and then this....

no matter the extent of truth and whether or not the "malnurished" (and i put in quotes because as of now it is still with the courts and she has not been found guilty of anything so just trying to be fair) animals were actually hers or recent rescues taken in and the extent medical care has been given only she knows, but still that's a lot of animals for one house/breeder

guess there's always three sides (hers, animal controls, and the truth which probably lies somewhere in between) to every story and there really is a fine line between running a business and hoarding

http://www.gazette.com/articles/mammals ... small.html


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## Rainy (Jul 27, 2011)

Oh, that's horrible.


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## Hissy-Fit-Hazel (Jul 15, 2011)

doh...nasty. Breeders who offer "adoptions"...what a load-of-crap. RESCUES offer adoptions...breeders SELL. Many offering "adoptions" are only RESELLING their own breedings or crappy breeders/cast offs / returns not taking actual rescues in.

There is no gray la-la zone between rescue and breeding...thankfully there are some breeders who actually do real rescue!


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## LarryT (May 12, 2009)

There are MANY breeders that do rescues, not ALL breeders are bad, sterotyping is so lame.


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## connorshogs (Mar 24, 2011)

Just because someone like this did it bad does not mean all breeders that take on resues is bad I don't know a good breeder that would turn away a Hedgie in need. When a breeder sells a Hedgie that didn't breed goood dosnt make is a bad pet so its not bad to sell a retorted breeder.


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## Hissy-Fit-Hazel (Jul 15, 2011)

Did you 2 miss this part? _*"thankfully there are some breeders who actually do real rescue!"*_

and reality check....sure there are many breeders who help rescues. MOST do not. Where I live most sell in bulk to pet stores, meet people in parking lots and sell thru craigslist ads barely asking any questions about care. Breeders here in these forums or members of Hedgie orgs are the exception not the rule.

and as for "adoptions" I'm talking about those breeders who have websites, are selling their own babies with wording thru their sites such as:

"If you agree with our policies and would like to apply to adopt a hedgehog, please...blah blah"

I'm not speaking of breeders who have a seperate area of their web sites / programs specified to help rescued hedgies. There are purchases = breeder, adoptions = rescue.

Breeders own breedings or rehomes should in my opinion never be advertised as adoptions. It's disturbing, disrespectful to those who spend their time energy & funds doing real rescue and it's false advertising.


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## LarryT (May 12, 2009)

Hissy-Fit-Hazel said:


> Did you 2 miss this part? _*"thankfully there are some breeders who actually do real rescue!"*_
> 
> I wrote what I wanted to as I always do.
> 
> "If you agree with our policies and would like to apply to adopt a hedgehog, please...blah blah"


That's pretty much how it's done, fill out the paperwork get approved then adopt.


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## shawnwk1 (Jul 8, 2011)

Idk the lady personally, but from what I hear she was actually pretty reputable. I just think that sometimes people (not always breeders) get caught up in wanting to help ALL the animals and don't realize when they are in over their head. That's when it becomes an unsanitary condition and the animals suffer not getting the attention and care (food, medical, clean living space, whatever) that they deserve because the person is so overwhelmed with so many animals. 

You gotta know when to say no as bad as it may hurt to turn away an animal in need. This is why it is so important to be in touch with other breeders and rescues so when you are full you can call them up to take the animal in instead of overwhelming yourself. 

I guess that's what I don't get is so many in the hedgie community here know her and would have helped if she'd just asked. Now the poor hedgies and all the other animals taken from her house are stuck at the cold humane society in little cages waiting for the outcome of this trial.


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## LarryT (May 12, 2009)

shawnwk1 said:


> Now the poor hedgies and all the other animals taken from her house are stuck at the cold humane society in little cages waiting for the outcome of this trial.


That is awfull!  I hope the trial don't last as long as the one in Texas did.


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## Hissy-Fit-Hazel (Jul 15, 2011)

Lmao... breeding any animal for the purpose of resale then calling it an "adoption" is highly delusional in my opinion 

When "rescue" became more norm and public in the late 80's wording such as

*"Opt to adopt. Don't breed or buy while homeless pets die" *

*"Opt to Adopt"*

*"Adoption is a loving Option"*

*"Save a life, adopt a homeless animal"*

became normally used in marketing by rescues / shelters frequently to increase adoptions.

Breeders never used "rescue related" wording in their marketing until it became kinda frowned upon to not try to give a home to a homeless pet before shopping for one.

I suppose using "feel good" wording allows breeders to soften the blow that people are actually purchasing a pet instead of rescuing one. It "sounds" better...but it's still sales. Breeders will do what they do...just my opinion having done animal rescue for 22+ years


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## LarryT (May 12, 2009)

I can see your very passionate about animals as most of us here are,no enemies here. I never said it was ok to charge for a rescue so please don't go putting words in my mouth.


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## shawnwk1 (Jul 8, 2011)

i actually stopped by the humane society today as i periodically do and didn't see any of the small animals there that were claimed to have been taken from this home so hopefully i'm wrong and they aren't being housed there, but instead at foster homes which would be a much better environment generally. 

i too hope that the trial doesn't last that long, but from what the paper said her next court date is in december which is still aways away, but not as bad as it could be with how backed up the courts get sometimes. It also says she only has a week left to post "bail" for the animals. Not real sure how to take that one. Does it mean if she pays the "bail" for the animals she gets them all back right now? i thought they had to have a trial first and the judge/magistrate had to decide whether or not she gets them back? idk it's kinda confusing how they worded it, but i know we're all hoping for the best for all the animals not just the hedgies.


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

I called it adopting when I sold my babies as do most breeders and I don't see anything wrong with it. Lets face it, whether a baby bred with the purpose of selling is sold, or a rescue be it from a shelter, or a private rescue is "adopted" out but with an adoption fee attached. As long as money changes hands, regardless of the circumstance, the animal IS being sold. 

I rarely charged for a rescue/rehome when I adopted them out. In talking with the potential adopter, I did state a charge but in most cases I waved that charge when the person came to pick up the hedgehog or if I did take money, I donated it to HWS. It bothered me that I was in most cases, getting the hedgehog for free and it didn't feel right to charge someone when all I'd done was provide a home for him or her for a month or two. Some rescues charge as much for rescues as I was for babies. 

The hedgehog community is an unusual circumstance in that many reputable breeders also take in rescues. Certainly there are those that do it to fuel their breeding stock, but there are many many like myself, Nikki, Deneen and many others that take in any hedgehog in need and either adopt them back out or if the hedgehog is in poor health, or elderly, or unsocial, it remains in a loving home to live out his or her life. 

I never differentiated on my website who were our breeding herd, our rescues or our pets. They are all part of our family and on their picture page, our breeding girls had pink around their picture, the breeding boys, blue and the rescues and pets have green. Otherwise, their photos are all on the same page.


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## shawnwk1 (Jul 8, 2011)

i actually think it's great when breeders take in rescues needing it and help to find them new homes. i personally just think that you have to know your limit and when it starts affecting the care of the animals there's obviously too many so you have to be willing to work with other people who may have more room to take them in at the time and send them that way instead at times. 

however the saying goes "it takes a village to raise a child" kinda rings true here. one person can make a huge difference, but can't save the world. in order to do that you have to have help from others.

i don't however agree with charging an outrageous amount (and not saying this lady does as i have no idea) for rescues and especially not the same amount as a baby coming from a good bloodline as nancy was mentioning. those are the people that are like the first lady i mentioned i got my previous baby from that is only in it for the money which really ticks me off.


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## Hissy-Fit-Hazel (Jul 15, 2011)

I've obviously been misunderstood....I see no problem with an adoption fee for a rescue EVEN as much as full cost, not sure how that was assumed otherwise. Most rescues have adoption fees mind you most are not very high because they fundraise to help cover expenses. I think the small animal rescue here that does help hedgies charges a mere $50 fee. I don't know why it would not be ok for a breeder who took in a rescue to charge a fee for that pet when it got adopted. In dog rescue we have many fantastic breeders who keep space open to help rescues by fostering and the rescues still charge an adoption fee when the dog is adopted. Just cause a breeder rescues shouldn't mean they don't have the same options....free ...has some really crappy issues of it's own if one is not thoroughly screening via application, interview, home visit and follow ups.


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## MGSpikers (Oct 21, 2008)

I will reply to the assertion that the seized animals are now "stuck at the cold humane society in little cages waiting for the outcome of this trial." First of all, the Colorado Hedgehog Society is probably the most active hedgehog group in North America. We deal with all manners of hedgehog ussues locally, nationally, and internationally. We feel that this latest issue is very unfortunate, but it is a government intervention and beyond our control. What is within our control is volunteer action. Where the animals are "stuck" is at The Humane Society of the Pikes Peak Region. This is a new six million dollar facility with a complete surgery center, among other things. You can have a look at http://www.hsppr.org. If anything, animals entering there are treated as royalty. They have a professional staff and hundreds of volunteers. One of our Colorado Hedgehog Society members is a long time volunteer at the facility and stepped in immediately to look after the hedgehogs. She carries the laundry home each night for washing. The IHA Rescue Coordinator has provided advice, labor and supplies to the facility. The animals are also being cared for by a local veterinary technician class that is in residence at the facility. Our rescue (the Flash and Thelma Memorial Hedgehog Rescue) has provided 3.5 square foot floor space Sterilite containers and exercise wheels for everyone. Moreover, immediate and expert veterinary care is available for any and all of the animals involved. This continuous daily care will continue until this matter is resolved.


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## Hissy-Fit-Hazel (Jul 15, 2011)

Yaaaay  that's great news!


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## shawnwk1 (Jul 8, 2011)

That is great news and glad to hear. I never said the hsppr was bad just cold (as in temperature) which it was again when I went today I almost needed a coat as it was colder in there than outside. And new building or not we all no that there's no place like home (for any animal not just these). And yes some of the cages are quite small (ex. Some of the cat cages), but I'm glad to hear that all the animals are being well cared for. That's all that matters in the long run. 

Glad to hear so many have volunteered time, expertise, and supplies needed for all the animals. If I can be of any help in any way please feel free to pm me.


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## connorshogs (Mar 24, 2011)

Shawn not to sound like a jerk but standing bear is one of the if not the most knowledgeable rescuers around he devotes all his time to hedgehogs. He is a book of knowledge hedgehogs as you know are temp sensitive. Maybe that's why you did not see them when you went their. Im not looking to argue at all just saying he's not the guy to question weather the pets are cared for if he is at all involved they are getting the best care possible.


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## shawnwk1 (Jul 8, 2011)

Huh? I wasn't questioning anyone and don't remember asking any questions actually lol. And when I went I wasn't looking for them I was actually looking for a kitten since I lost mine the beginning of june after an expensive, hard fight with leukemia and lymphoma. I just simply stated I didn't see any of them while I was there and am glad since it was so cold up there. I did however fall in love with the turtles there, but didn't bring any home cuz I don't have the setup yet for turtles and wanna wait for that one til I get a farm and can do more research on them (even though I had them as a kid still don't feel prepared). They were so cute though


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

connorshogs said:


> Shawn not to sound like a jerk but standing bear is one of the if not the most knowledgeable rescuers around he devotes all his time to hedgehogs. He is a book of knowledge hedgehogs as you know are temp sensitive. Maybe that's why you did not see them when you went their. Im not looking to argue at all just saying he's not the guy to question weather the pets are cared for if he is at all involved they are getting the best care possible.


I don't see anything where shawnwk1 has said anything against SB or even mentioned SB.


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## nikki (Aug 28, 2008)

I've read and re-read shawnwk1 post and can't see anything against SB or the care of the hedgies that SB was talking about.


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## LarryT (May 12, 2009)

I see nothing wrong with anything Shawn wrote, he expressed his feelings and concerns.  I'm thankfull Shawn posted on the subject cause I had no clue this had happened.  Person in question was a very well respected member of alot of things and co president of one group. :?


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

I think it will be interesting to see what the outcome is. The person in question is a long time hedgehog owner, breeder and rescue. There is a large hedgehog community out there and I'm certain there is a lot of visiting back and forth so I'm sure the truth or as close as possible will come out. The father of my very first breeding quality hedgehog came from her. 

As has been mentioned, there are two side to every storey and sometimes initial impressions are not the truth. Often people who take in rescues are taking in ones in rough shape but not the fault of the rescuer. 

I hope the truth comes out.


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