# Oh dear...



## spastic_jedi (Nov 11, 2009)

I went to a pet shop today, one that my friend works at, and asked to see the small albino Hedgie that they've had there the past few months.
They have two hedgies there, one albino and one cinnamon (i think). The cinnamon one is very friendly, social and doesn't quill up at all unless you touch his nose. He is a sweetheart.

The albino one stays tightly balled all the time, or so the lady said. She handed him to me and he was balled up and a gently rubbed his back and coo'd while I held him. He was terrified, but not popping or hissing. Just staying curled up. He eventually stuck his little nose out and licked my thumb and curled around my fingers when all the little children made noises around me.

He had a little cut on his nose, the lady said she thinks it's from his own spikes but i know better than that, Moose balls up tight and never has abrasions on his nose. I think the cinnamon one might be a bit of a bully. He was so tiny, I know in comparison to Moose he was at least. Moose was at least twice his size, then again, we all know Moose is, in fact, a Moose. The little hedgie was so itty bitty and Then it happened. I fell in love with his little face when he poked out and looked at me. 

The only problem is I know I can't afford to take him on. 
It's going to be easy for them to sell the cinnamon one, he is social and friendly and he'll get a good home in no time, but this guy is very shy.... he reminds me of Moose before I managed to socialize him... Now Moose and I are best friends...

 I just want him soooooo badly. Mostly because I am worried no one else will want him. 

Maybe, if I talk to my mom and I am lucky... I'll be able to get him... or help find someone that can give him a good home.. I can tell he is going to need someone patient.

I hope he finds a good home.


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## krbshappy71 (Jul 17, 2009)

Buy from a reputable breeder, not a pet shop.


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## spastic_jedi (Nov 11, 2009)

Oh I know, I just want to get him out of there.
It just broke my heart seeing him like that.


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## PJM (May 7, 2010)

Can you have two hedgies? If not, we are not all Supergirl!
If we all knew what went on in the world, we would not be able to handle it.


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## EryBee (May 23, 2010)

I was in the saaaamme boat, and with a tiny albino too! I knew that A) buying from a reputable breeder has so many advantages, B) I couldn't afford it C) the time was not right...but you would need a heart of stone to not want to take these poor little hedgies home.

In the end I found out by lucky coincidence that the little albino was bought by a girl with hedgehog experience. The girl just happened to come back to the pet shop one day with the albino hedgie and I chatted with her a little bit.

My advice, is that if you can't afford it, don't do it. I told myself that it was better for me to give my one hedgie everything he needed than to run the risk of trying to care for two hedgies on a limited budget and not giving them what they needed.

If you can afford an addition, and you have all the time and space...well then after being on this forum you know the pros and cons of a pet store hedgie versus a breeder hedgie and so therefore you can decide for yourself whether or not you want to go ahead and buy the little hedgie. Good luck!


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## spastic_jedi (Nov 11, 2009)

Yeah, I know. I really am thinking of going back often and seeing him. My friend works there and I may be able to work something out with them, especially considering the shape this poor little guy was in.

Moose was a pet store hedgie, but he came from a family run store that had their breeder's number available and he came from a good place. 

I know "pet store" vs "breeder" hedgies are very different... but it doesn't mean this little guy should just be left there. Not in the condition he is in.

I have Moose's old cage, which is plenty big for him. I have food I can split between the two of them. 

I really think just budgeting the Vet visits is what will stump me. 

I am really considering this... I can't bare to leave him alone like that. He needs someone with experience and patience. Moose was very anti social when I first got him... I am sure I can work my magic on this little guy, he isn't even angry... he's quiet and shy... 

I'm going back tomorrow to see him again.


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## EryBee (May 23, 2010)

Poor little hedgie. Are they feeding him poor food at the store?


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## zorropirate (Aug 13, 2010)

Have you talked to your vet? Some vets offer "Family" discounts. I know that my vet will only charge me one fee to see my turtle and my gerbil at the same time. 

Same with my cat's vet, they charge me less for our visits, but then my youngest cat has a chronic condition so we are there all the time.


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## spastic_jedi (Nov 11, 2009)

They've got him on hedgie kibble but not a good kind, I just want to take him and rehabilitate him. He needs someone that knows what they are doing... and I'm not entirely sure he'll find it there.

Also, I'll look into that family discount thing...


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## NoDivision (Aug 29, 2010)

krbshappy71 said:


> Buy from a reputable breeder, not a pet shop.


Honestly, I hate this sentiment. Given the choice, yes, we should buy from breeders so we know the hogs are healthy, the breeding families are healthy, people are responsible with their hedgies and we know something about their genetics, etc. And not buying from pet stores can help to hinder irresponsible breeding.

But why is it so bad to want to rescue a hedgehog from a pet store? Would you rather leave the hedgie in that bad environment? Or take the chance that it could be bought by someone who would treat it horribly because of their ignorance? If you have room in your home and your heart for a pet store hedgehog, to give it a good life, then why the heck not.


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## susanaproenca (Aug 14, 2010)

It's always a good idea to think a lot before adopting a new hedgie. Right now I'm dying to get another one, but it isn't only a cage and food and routine vet visits that you have to think about; there's also a new wheel and CHE set up that you will have to get and those are expensive. Also, what if both hedgies get vey sick at the same time and you end up with a thousand bucks vet bill? Those are all things that made me realize I cant have a second hedgie now. 

Maybe you should think some more before making any decision. It's sad to see how many people in this forum decide after a while that they can afford or don't have time for their pets.


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## mel2626 (Sep 28, 2009)

NoDivision said:


> krbshappy71 said:
> 
> 
> > Buy from a reputable breeder, not a pet shop.
> ...


 I believe the general consensus for that sentiment (picking breeder over pet shop) is that you may think you are "rescuing" the animal, but the pet shop is just going to replace it with another once it's gone. It's the idea of the pet store animals being treated more as stock than actually as living-breathing animals. Therefore, if someone purchases an animal from a pet store, they are more than likely going to replenish their stock with another animal. From a retail perspective, if a store sees that something sells, they plan to buy more of it for their store. So if a pet store notices that they are selling more hedgies than normal, they are just going to start ordering more. It just becomes a vicious cycle/circle. Kind-hearted people look at it as rescuing the animal whereas the person selling just sees the profit and potential for even more profit. This is why the focus on trying to educate pet stores is so important. Granted, not all pet stores are bad, some are extremely knowledgeable.
Either way it's a very tough decision when you see a little animal living in less than perfect conditions. There are really no right or wrong answers which is why it's always up for discussion.
I wish you the best in your decision!!


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## NoDivision (Aug 29, 2010)

I understand all that, but I have a hard time seeing how just leaving the hedgehog there with the risk of it having a horrible life is the better solution :\ To me that seems like punishing the hedgehog to try and teach the pet store a lesson, which doesn't seem fair. There has to be a better way to educate pet stores that still allows you to give a good home to the hedgehogs that are already in the situation, ya know? And I don't think that anyone here who is considering getting a hedgehog from a pet store because they really think it's for the best should be just flat out told "Don't do that, go to a breeder."


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## hercsmom (Jul 6, 2010)

Money aside, there is also the time factor involved. I can't go look in the petstores anymore if I'm at the mall, I want to rescue every poor little hedgie I see in there. The 2nd hedgie will need a quarantine period though, which may be hard if you're in a smaller home or apartment. Also, they both need bonding time each night. That's what stops me from getting another one, I don't want anything to take away from the time Herc and I have each night, and working 2 jobs and going to school limits that some nights too.

I saw a baby hedgie in the petstore here about a month ago, and I almost bought him on the spot. He was in a tiny little cage with wood shavings (probably not the right type), with a silent spinner COVERED in poop and poop all over his cage. They didn't even know how to keep his cage clean! What stopped me was knowing deep down I didn't have enough time to devote to this little guy, and he really deserves it.


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## mel2626 (Sep 28, 2009)

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7507
...and here we go with the prime reason why so many people are against pet shop sales of hedgehogs. Even after this poster reported the Pet Shop for inhumane treatment (Josh, sorry if I summarize your post), they got in more hedgehogs. This pet shop knowingly fed these poor creatures BIRD FOOD even though they sold hedgehog food (which isn't the best but at least it's better than bird food!). So while he could have just bought this/these poor hedgehogs because he felt bad for them, it would have solved nothing. The store just replaced theose hedgies with new ones. I'm hoping that after the second time that he reported them, that hopefully they'll get the hint! The thing is, there are always going to be pet stores (and I have *nothing* against pet stores who know what they are doing) but most don't know how to properly care for the animals they are selling. These are the pet stores that we have a problem with.

Sorry, I promise I'm not trying to scold anyone for their choices but anyone having to rescue a hedgehog from a bad situation can empathize. Not all rescue situations are because of pet stores, but many are. My rescue didn't come directly from a pet store but the "kid" that I got him from, DID get him from a pet store. The pet store didn't even know if they were legal in their state (!!!!!) but they went ahead and got the hedgehog for him so that they could make a quick buck! Needless to say, 2/3 months later and he's bored with it and had him posted on Craigslist. A pet store most likely won't give you a health guarantee or be able to tell you anything about the lineage or let you return it if you find out it's not the right pet for you. The pros/cons are listed elsewhere on this and other threads but I just thought that this was a perfect example of my explanation.



viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7507


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## Olympia (Aug 4, 2010)

I understand the principle that you shouldn't "rescue" a hedgehog from a pet store that doesn't treat them well because it just encourages the store to buy more and keep not taking good care of them. But it's really hard to not feel for those individual hedgies and instead think of the greater good of all hedgehogs, you know? I bought Zoé from a pet store where she was miserable and I don't regret it. I wasn't looking for a second hedgehog but I couldn't leave her there and I knew I could give her everything she needed. She's a wonderful hedgie who deserved to have a good life.  Clémentine came from a brededer and it was a fantastic experience, I'll go to a breeder again next time I adopt a hedgie.


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## spastic_jedi (Nov 11, 2009)

:shock: wow, this opened up a LOT more stuff than I had expected it to. Sorry for starting the debate folks.


UPDATE : I went back to the pet sore and it's pretty much 80% I will be getting him.
He opened up to me really quickly and they said he's never had any positive interactions with anyone that has come to see him. He began licking my thumb and curling around it.

The other hedgie that they had him with was gone but he still had some scars from them fighting (or at least I am guessing)

To those of you worried about my time, I have more than enough of it, I work night shifts Friday - Sunday and only an occasional morning shift once a week if they need me. I've actually got more time than I know what to do with. 

I've got the supplies (and yes, I know that means more than just a cage) and I've called my vet about family discounts.

I'll keep you posted as things go on.


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## EryBee (May 23, 2010)

After reading all this heated debate and hearing about the little pet store hedgie I am very interested to see how this all works out! Best of luck to you, and I am sure your decision will be the right one!


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## KimchiTheHedgehog (Oct 7, 2010)

EryBee said:


> After reading all this heated debate and hearing about the little pet store hedgie I am very interested to see how this all works out! Best of luck to you, and I am sure your decision will be the right one!


I agree!


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## mel2626 (Sep 28, 2009)

NoDivision said:


> I understand all that, but I have a hard time seeing how just leaving the hedgehog there with the risk of it having a horrible life is the better solution :\ To me that seems like punishing the hedgehog to try and teach the pet store a lesson, which doesn't seem fair. There has to be a better way to educate pet stores that still allows you to give a good home to the hedgehogs that are already in the situation, ya know? And I don't think that anyone here who is considering getting a hedgehog from a pet store because they really think it's for the best should be just flat out told "Don't do that, go to a breeder."


I agree 100% that it's a tough decision which is why everyone should be aware that there are good and bad points so that you can make an informed decision. As for the post of "Don't do that, go to a breeder", it didn't come from me I'm just explaining my view on the subject. However, I will say that people are very passionate on this subject because of the horror stories of what happens in some pet shops (or in pet shop suppliers). In case you are unfamiliar with the US Global Exotics raid from late last year, it was the biggest raid in US history! If you ever hear anyone referring to Tumbleweeds, they are referring to the lucky hedghogs that were rescued in Texas~not all were so lucky. There are pictures and videos as well (they may not be on this site but if you google it, you'll find all the disturbing images you could ever need...). I hate to even bring it back up again because it still breaks my heart but it's something that should not be forgotten. So if people seem to be blunt and to the point on this subject, please understand that it's for a good reason.
Here is one of the links:
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4364&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=global+exotics



Olympia said:


> I understand the principle that you shouldn't "rescue" a hedgehog from a pet store that doesn't treat them well because it just encourages the store to buy more and keep not taking good care of them. But it's really hard to not feel for those individual hedgies and instead think of the greater good of all hedgehogs, you know? I bought Zoé from a pet store where she was miserable and I don't regret it. I wasn't looking for a second hedgehog but I couldn't leave her there and I knew I could give her everything she needed. She's a wonderful hedgie who deserved to have a good life.  Clémentine came from a brededer and it was a fantastic experience, I'll go to a breeder again next time I adopt a hedgie.


Luckily they do not sell hedgehogs at pet stores around here so I haven't had to experience this first-hand. I can't say that if I were in the same similar situation that I wouldn't be tempted to get the little guy too. I just know that I would be extremely careful in how I went about it. I'm a softy for all creatures and I don't envy anyone who is in a position of being literally face to face with a pet shop animal and having to make a decision like that. I guess I like to think about the future instead of the present. Saving one hedgehog is absolutely wonderful, but if the store is just going to get another, what about the next hedgehog? Does he/she not deserve the same? What about the next, or the next? There has to be a point where you weigh your options and make a decision based on that particular instance. To just buy a hedgehog from a pet store where the animal was not being treated properly and saying nothing to the store owner/manager etc. is counter-productive. Again, this isn't something definitive but both sides have legitimate points that need to be thought about before such a purchase. I've stressed the importance of education and others have previously mentioned bringing the store a few pages with info about hedgehogs (perhaps even info from HHC) that they may not know. Having hedgehogs for sale may be something new for a pet store. If you happen to be well-informed on their required care, just share your sentiments with them. What could it hurt? I'd rather see someone at least try to make an effort to help a store to treat their animals better than to just ignore the situation entirely. If they are doing something wrong, they should know. Maybe they'll be receptive to the advice and work to make things right. If they refuse to change, then maybe it's time to start reporting them for their misconduct.

Spastic,
I wish you all the best with the little hedgie no matter what the outcome!  
But please don't apologize. You have valid concerns and others had questions that maybe they had never asked before. That's what's great about the forum. We're all learning from one another.


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## Puffers315 (Apr 19, 2010)

I'm not 100% sure on this but if you walk by a pet store and they are keeping their hedgehogs in some horrid condition, like what was described above, a filthy cage, filthy wheel and even being feed what is obviously the wrong type of food, don't bother talking to the pet store, they obviously do not care, avoid buying the hedgehog though I do understand it can be hard to pass up some poor little guy getting the crap end of the life stick, pick up a phone, and call the USDA and file a complaint, and ****, have friends do the same.

Far as I remember law wise, pet stores are required to hold a USDA license to sell hedgehogs, and even if they have a license, they are open to 'pop-in' inspections. I'd have to read up on the law, but thats what I would do.


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## spastic_jedi (Nov 11, 2009)

Well, to put the arguments to rest, I DID purchase the hedgie. I will be bringing him home next Thursday (I am needed for a family situation elsewhere until then)

It's become a lively debate on here and I didn't mean for it to become so heated. I am sorry to those of you who saw this as being a bad choice, as I have mentioned I do know the terrors of pet shops but this is something that just felt right to me. He needed me and I would rather give him a good home than leave him there of have him go to someone ignorant and uneducated.

I know that I will be able to provide him with a good home and his live with become much better with me.

I've named him Hiccup, you'll all get to meet him soon.


-Kris


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## spastic_jedi (Nov 11, 2009)

Also, there is no USDA here in Canada.


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## susanaproenca (Aug 14, 2010)

I absolutely loved the name you picked! 

My hedgehog, Col. Mustard, was adopted by me when she was turning 1 year old, and I know her former owners had purchased her at a pet store. She's been with us for only 3 months now, and I have never regret my choice of taking her in; she's my beloved sweet pea! 

I'm sure ou thought it through before buying him and as you said, you have time and money to give him a good life. That being said, good luck with Hiccup! Please post pictures ofyour little one when possible!


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## Puffers315 (Apr 19, 2010)

Its always been a hot topic issue around here, but debate is good, until it turns into stupid (like the weed thread from yesterday). Again as I said there, we all have our opinions and we all sit on one side of the fence or the other.

Personally I give props to you for snatching him out of the **** he was in. Indeed it means he'll be replaced by another one and that some crappy breeder or mill is going to make money along with the pet shop, but if he dies, he's going to be replaced, if someone else buys him, he's going to be replaced, there is no way to stop the cycle except to take out the breeder/mill that is selling to the pet store. With you, he gets a forever home, with someone else, he would probably end up in the classified ads like the Montreal Hogs. That's my personal opinion.

Oh yeah, meant to say if you're in the USA to call the USDA, at least state side they're suppose to have a license to sell them, Canada since they are pretty relaxed on many laws probably has nothing in place. You guys must have something like the USDA, never paid attention (I live a couple of miles from the Ontario/Quebec Border state side).


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## spastic_jedi (Nov 11, 2009)

I am happy with my decision, I am preparing myself and my house for the new little monster. I know to keep him quarantined for the first few weeks / month. I will be bringing him to the vet the same day as his pick up to make sure he is healthy. 

I can't explain the **** I am going to be in since I have to wait nearly a week to pick him up. I really hope, to no avail I am sure, that they don't put another hedgie in with him while I am gone. I don't want anything to happen to him while I am away.

I can't wait to give him a warm loving home.

Pictures soon to come, in the mean time... imagine my Moose, only half the size :lol:


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## PJM (May 7, 2010)

Congratulations on your new hedgie! I LOVE the name Hiccup! If I ever get another hedgie, I am going to let you name it. We can't wait to see pictures.


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## shetland (Sep 2, 2008)

I don't think anyone can deny your agony in this decision and the joy in that this little one will now be loved and cared for as he deserves.


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## zorropirate (Aug 13, 2010)

Can't wait to meet little Hiccup. You know sometimes for reasons unknown to us all there is just something that drives creatures to be together. I am so happy for Hiccup to have finally found you to spend his life with. 

I understand the whole debate and moral dilemma purchasing pets from poor situations, but sometimes there is just so much you can do to prevent it from happening again. It's not you who put Hiccup in that situation, and really there isn't much you can do to prevent it.  

I can see if you were taking in each and every one you came accross, or taking each one the same store brought in, then you would be fueling the issue. 

Anyhoo, I'm very excited for Hiccup and you, hope your week is alright and it flies by so that you can finally bring Hiccup home. 

HUGS from Daisy and me.


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## KimchiTheHedgehog (Oct 7, 2010)

Hi i got a hedgehog today!!!!
Im so happy!
i named her taffy!


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