# HELP NEEDED!!!



## snazer (Apr 2, 2012)

This morning I found knuckles in a bloody mess in his cage. He bite his tongue & it got severed off. 

I have got no idea how did he even bite his tongue but I have crushed paracetamol mixed in water and feed him a little. There isn't any vet in town where I can bring him to.

He's sleeping in his cage now and I'm monitoring his condition

Is there anything I can do for him.

P.s. For all the negative comments, keep it for yourself. It has happened and I'm here for a solution, not your bs.

Thanks in advance


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## Immortalia (Jan 24, 2009)

Is there absolutely no vets at all in the town?

All he really needs is to ensure the tongue is severed cleanly, then a round of pain meds/anti-inflammatories and antibiotics. 

But definitely metacam for the pain and antiinflammatory. 
None of it REALLY need a specialised vet. I suggest getting proper dosing advice from those who have had the meds. LizardGirl is one that comes to mind right away who would know the dosing off the top of her head(lol) that way you can sort of just tell the vet what you want done and what you need. 

And of course picking up soft food such as Hills A/D from the vet. 

Good luck!


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## Immortalia (Jan 24, 2009)

Ok, had to look paracetamol up and I couldn't do it properly on my phone.(we just call it acetaminophen)

The problem with those types of drugs is that it can be highly poisonous in some animals. We know they are used with extreme caution in cats and we honestly do not really know how a hedgehog metabolism works and if the drug will damage liver/kidneys when passing through the body.

So something else you should also keep an eye for is renal failure. It may not happen, it may have been ok to use. But without knowing proper dosing, it's very hard to determine what sort of dose is "safe". At least we know drugs such as metacam, baytril etc etc have been used on hedgehogs with little adverse effects. 

For tonight, if you don't have canned food, soak his kibble and make it soft so there's nothing to really chew.


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## snazer (Apr 2, 2012)

Thanks for all the help! Appreciate it!!


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## moxieberry (Nov 30, 2011)

Can't comment as to whether the paracetamol/acetaminophen is good to use on hedgehogs, but hopefully it's fine. What I can say is that anything like that should be given in an extremely small amount. A fraction of a cc, basically. If you can get the children's version, which is a lower concentration, that's even better. We're dealing with one of our hedgehogs having gnawed a sore spot on her stomach, most likely due to skin itching/irritation from mites, and have been giving her children's Benadryl. It takes 5-6 kibbles of babycat soaked in the syrup (easiest way to get it into her) to make her drowsy from it, which tells us it's kicked in well. I wouldn't suggest using any more than that when you use any painkiller or other medication that's designed for humans.

Good luck!


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## Immortalia (Jan 24, 2009)

I'm sorry I can't be much more help. It's not like I can tell you to check his gum colours like you would in a dog or cat(THAT I can do well ).

You also want to keep an eye on hydration levels. This, you can definitely do. Just take a small pinch of skin, pull lightly and let go. The skin should pop back under 2 seconds if the animal is properly hydrated. If you notice the skin is a bit sticky, or slow to "bounce", then he needs more fluids. Which may also mean you will have to syringe water (and most likely food too). 

(lol sorry, I keep thinking of more stuff to add on)


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## snazer (Apr 2, 2012)

Hey it's alright 

Really do appreciate all the help I get from this forum. For now, getting the right medication is crucial. Waiting for lizard girl's reply


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## nikki (Aug 28, 2008)

I think waiting for Lizardgirl is the best idea, I would trust her dosage instructions the most. If possible I would try to get antibiotics for him just in case, tongue injuries usually heal fast but are very prone to infection.


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## snazer (Apr 2, 2012)

Any idea on what kind of antibiotic??


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## nikki (Aug 28, 2008)

I know that Baytril and Clavamox are both hedgie safe.


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## LizardGirl (Aug 25, 2008)

Oh yikes, your poor guy! Immortalia has already covered what I would say. You want to make sure it's a clean cut otherwise it might be a lot harder to heal without infecting, though at this point changing it from what it is now would involve sedation and a good exotics vet, which it sounds like you don't have access to. So, we'll hope it was a clean cut and move onto the next step.

It's really important that his tongue doesn't get infected. You're going to have to try to find a vet that will prescribe some antibiotics (I'd start with Clavamox drops (amoxicillin) or Baytril if you need to request a particular antibiotic, if the vet has no idea what to use). I'd try calling any nearby vets to see who can get you some. 

Next up that has GOT to be painful. You already have him on the acetaminophen, which should help with swelling and pain, though I don't know how dangerous the drug is with hedgies, or how they respond to higher doses (since it's hard to dose it, I'm guessing). If he doesn't react badly to it today, and you don't have any other option, we can help you figure out how to accurately measure and administer that to keep him on. If you can get to a vet for antibiotics though, please also ask to get a bit of Metacam - this is a great painkiller and will probably help him immensely. I'm not sure if it would react with the acetaminophen, you should ask the vet in the event you can get some.

Tried to write this fast so I could post it for you, feel free to ask any other specifics and I'll try to help. Hugs to poor Knuckles!


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## snazer (Apr 2, 2012)

Thank you for the reply, he seems ok right now as he's sleeping. Making sure once in a while that he's really sleeping & not dead. There will be no problem getting baytril for him which is in 10%. He's about 0.734lb, he's about 9 months old.



LizardGirl said:


> Oh yikes, your poor guy! Immortalia has already covered what I would say. You want to make sure it's a clean cut otherwise it might be a lot harder to heal without infecting, though at this point changing it from what it is now would involve sedation and a good exotics vet, which it sounds like you don't have access to. So, we'll hope it was a clean cut and move onto the next step.
> 
> It's really important that his tongue doesn't get infected. You're going to have to try to find a vet that will prescribe some antibiotics (I'd start with Clavamox drops (amoxicillin) or Baytril if you need to request a particular antibiotic, if the vet has no idea what to use). I'd try calling any nearby vets to see who can get you some.
> 
> ...


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## snazer (Apr 2, 2012)

Btw, I administer the medication using a syringe, right?


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## LizardGirl (Aug 25, 2008)

If you have 10% Baytril, the dosage is 0.2mL/kg twice daily, so you'd be giving him 0.067cc morning and night (since he's about 333 grams). That's such a tiny amount, I would recommend diluting the Baytril half and half with water and giving him 0.133cc instead. Much more realistic amount to be trying to measure.  

I'm not sure if you already have an oral syringe, but if not if you stop in any vet's office they should be able to give you a 1cc oral (no needle) syringe for him. And just to clarify for anyone who might be wondering, 1mL is the same as 1cc.


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## snazer (Apr 2, 2012)

So it's 0.067cc/ml or baytril mixed in 0.067cc/ml of water. How about metacam?


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## LizardGirl (Aug 25, 2008)

Yup, you got it! And for the Metacam it depends on which concentration. There's a .5mg/mL concentration and a 1.5mg/mL concentration. Do you know which one you have access to?


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## snazer (Apr 2, 2012)

Managed to get Baytril & bonjela but couldnt get metacam


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## LizardGirl (Aug 25, 2008)

Just double check that the Baytril is indeed 10% before measuring anything out!  I've never used Bonjela before, did you get that from a vet (or was it recommended by a vet)? Always worried about the safety of drugs we haven't used on our babies yet. If the vet recommended it, I'd say go ahead and use it (per their directions), otherwise if you can ask one first I think that would be the safest bet. How is Knuckles this morning?


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## Hazesti (Jan 19, 2010)

That poor guy. I hope the meds help. 

Was he using a water bottle? Because that could have been the cause for the injury. If he is please switch him to a bowl. If not I guess maybe he bumped his head while licking something and bit himself, something weird like that. I hope the bleeding stopped, wouldn't it be hard to tell in the mouth? 

I'm glad there are many people here with good advice, I'd be a complete mess if that had happenned to Quinn.


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## Mommatobe (Apr 5, 2012)

I am very sorry to hear about your little guy. I hope he does alright. I would highly recommend that you do not use the acetaminophen and try to get Metacam. I am a veterinary technician and know that acetaminophen can cause severe kidney and liver damage in cats and dogs, and more often then not fatal toxicosis in cats. I also used to work for an exotic vet and from what I can remember even using Metacam in small exotics can be risky but is much safer then anything we humans take. If you do get Metacam you will have to do what is called a "wash out period" and not give him any pain meds for a couple days as giving 2 different types of NSAIDS too close together can cause alot of damage. The vet may be able to give you gastrointestinal protectent meds which will allow you to give Metacam right away. I am not 100 % sure if acetaminophen is safe or not for hedgies but I know it is unsafe in a number or other species. I hope he does alright and please keep us updated. Also if the vet near you does not normally see exotics there are a number of exotic vets that will take calls from non-exotic vets to help in theses situations. My previous boss used to do phone consultations all the time. Again goodluck and I hate to wave a very big red flag but I want your boy to be safe!


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## snazer (Apr 2, 2012)

Just an update,

Brought knuckles to a vet and was prescribe with antibiotic. Currently syringe feeding him now & he's able to drink on his own. 

But he tends to drool alot.

Thanks for all the help. This forum is a savior for all heggies everywhere.


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## Immortalia (Jan 24, 2009)

Yay! Thanks for the update!


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## LizardGirl (Aug 25, 2008)

Thanks for updating us! I was wondering how he was doing.  Glad to hear he's hanging in there!


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## snazer (Apr 2, 2012)

Yea, he's hanging there. Anyways, how do I know when he's fully recovered? 

Should I try feeding him mealworms?

Currently, he's in a smaller cage as I'm monitoring him, when should I put him back into his regular cage & should I put his running wheel back in?

Once again, thank you all who replied and gave very helpful advice.


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## LizardGirl (Aug 25, 2008)

Do you have him on soft food right now? If so, mealies might be hard for him to chew... otherwise, if he's on hard food right now I'm sure he can handle mealies.  I'm actually not sure how would be best for you to know when it's all healed. Hard to look in their mouths, usually. I'll let someone else come up with an answer to that one! I personally would just scruff my hedgie and use a popsicle stick to gently pull the mouth open and take a quick peek, but I don't know if scruffing works well for you or not.

At this point, since he's on antibiotics and just waiting to heal, I'd say go ahead and put him back in his usual cage. He'll probably appreciate having his wheel back.


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## snazer (Apr 2, 2012)

Yea i do have like those canned cat food prescribed by the vet. Can the food be left in his cage overnight?

Tried feeding him a white mealworms today but he seems to have difficulty eating ((

He only managed to eat half of the mealworms, he didnt even chewed the mealies.


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## Immortalia (Jan 24, 2009)

It will probably be at least a week before its somewhat healed. Probably in a week you can leave a few bowls of choice. One wet, one crushed hard kibble, one dampened kibble and let him chose throughout the night. And yes you can leave the food overnight. Just change it out in the morning. 

Thinking of spay and mass removal type surgeries, it's usually 7-10days for suture removal and 14 days to allow full activity. So after a week you can try harder foods again.


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## snazer (Apr 2, 2012)

here's another update,

it's almost a week and recently has been running his wheel in the night. still syringe feeding him but his drooling has lessen.

Managed to take a peek at his tongue and it's looking good I think. Don't see any strange/foreign growth on the severed part. 


Are there any advice out there to get him to start eating on his own again? Tried feeding him mealies but still couldn't chew it properly.
Bite off half & sallow the other half.

Will his shorten tongue affect him eating & drinking?


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

I can't really answer any of your questions, other than if it's Hills A/D that was prescribed by the vet, I would think he'd like the taste and may eat that on his own. If he does, you could try leaving some out overnight with some crushed or soaked kibble mixed with it, or offer several dishes, one with the wet cat food, one with soaked kibble, one with crushed kibble, and so on. 

I'm glad his tongue seems to be healing though!


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