# To remove wheel or not? Nail Issues.



## DesireeM81 (Jun 14, 2014)

Penny has a swollen nail bed (I'm not sure if that is what it is called). It's painful to the touch (she huffed like a made woman when I grabbed her paw to clip it today) and slightly red on her back foot. It's the area around where the nail grows out. We have an appointment for the vet tomorrow but I'm not sure if I should take her in or take her wheel away and let it heal or do both. I scheduled the appointment anyway. It isn't infected or open as far as I can tell. I removed some dead skin away from it. It looks like she might have impacted it. I can only assume on her tile that is in her cage to keep her cool. The nail wasn't long, I clip them once a week. Foot baths every other day or daily if needed. She's pretty neat though and rarely has poop boots. I normally just let her walk around on a wet towel to get the pee off. 

She also lost another nail last week that just popped off but the remaining pad and area looked just fine. We have a swamp cooler in the house, do you think the extra humidity is causing nail issues? If so, is there anything I can do for her? All other nails appear normal if not a little soft.


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## Soyala_Amaya (Aug 1, 2011)

It sounds like a vitamin b or protein deficiency. What do you feed?


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## DesireeM81 (Jun 14, 2014)

Sorry for the slow response.

I feed Halo grain free Game bird, Solid gold katz n flocken, Wellness Healthy weight and Canidae grain free ocean. I doubt it has anything to do with protein but possibly vitamin B. Not sure what to do for that. 

We did visit the vet today. Vet said to keep it clean, wasn't sure about the wheel though. I was given a prescription of painkillers (Metacam) to fill if she needs it but when she is out and about, as long as I don't touch it she doesn't seem to be any pain. Since it wasn't infected we opted out of antibiotics for now. Check up in two weeks. The good thing is that she is otherwise completely healthy. Teeth, ears and heart sounded good. She did huff a lot when the vet poked at her toe so it's definitely sore.


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## Soyala_Amaya (Aug 1, 2011)

Nope, doesn't sound like protein with all of that, and several of those recipes have B12 supplements, but she may not be getting the full B range. So many recipes focus on 12, and forget there's other numbers. However, there is also rice and seafood in your mix too, which are usually what I suggest-eat some fish if you have soft nails. 
Hope your vet can help figure it out


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## DesireeM81 (Jun 14, 2014)

She's not the most hedgie knowledgeable vet but she is willing to learn and does seem them on occasion. The worse part though, is that the ones that she sees are often is horrible condition, malnourished, mite filled, or in need a c section or broke a leg so she often deals with the big cases and not the small ones. I'm happy it is a small one. We are doing daily morning footbaths because we want to keep her toes as clean as possible and don't want the pee to sit on her feet all day and cause an infection. The swelling seems to be going down already so I'm thinking a stubbed toe/nail and wondering if she caught it on the under the wheel pan. It's the one that comes with the carolina storm wheel. Oh and we have the cake topper wheel from them if anyone was curious so the wheel is plenty big enough. I'm just at a loss as to what caused this...


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

I've been looking at causes for soft nails in humans & I'm finding numerous things from too much water to Vitamin B/iron/calcium/zinc deficiencies to hypothyroidism. Kind of a wide range! I agree that protein & calcium don't sound likely...And I'm not sure about Vitamin B. One thing I found stated that biotin (B7) deficiency can be more of a cause than the other numbers. But it's generally found in a wide range of foods too. It also comes with other symptoms - dry skin, fatigue, intestinal tract issues, etc. And at least with humans, causes can include taking antibiotics for too long because biotin is made by bacteria in the intestinal tract, or issues with the intestinal tract not absorbing nutrients well. But I would think the absorbing thing would present with other side effects too.

Do you know what the humidity in the house is? It doesn't seem like it'd be high enough to cause nail issues like this, even with a swamp cooler, but I'm not positive.


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## DesireeM81 (Jun 14, 2014)

It gets to around 50% in the house. Which doesn't seem like a lot but here in Colorado the average here is like 20% so it feels moist all the time. I honestly didn't think the problem was humidity but it's the only thing that has really changed. It is pretty hot in the house even with the swamp cooler. It gets up to 80 on most days here so the humidity probably feels worse. I can buy biotin at the store... My sister uses it. Would it be okay to supplement?

The impacted nail fell off today. When this happened with Rose, the nail never grew back right. She always had bad nails though, from the day I got her. I assumed it was genetic. Now with Penny, I'm wondering if it's something in the house. I use All Free and Clear detergent, no dryer sheets for the fleece liners. I use 1/2 vinegar and water to clean wheels. Sometimes dish soap if the poop is caked on but I rinse well. I'm using aveeno baby body wash when I give baths which aren't often. She is pretty clean. 

Sorry, I'm kind of thinking out loud as a type to figure out what is going on. No itching, some quill loss but nothing crazy, maybe one every other day, nothing is bald though, skin looks good. Been putting vitamin e oil on her ears since they have some extra build up. Poos are completely normal, appetite is fine, drinking lots of water because it's hot. 

I can also buy fish for extra vitamin b is that might help. I have access to a lot. The only problem is that I would like to freeze it for a month because I would want to feed it raw as to not have destroy any of the vitamins in it.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

That is strange, having two hedgies in the same house with nail issues. I'm honestly not seeing anything that jumps out at me as problematic. What kind of water are you using for their baths & the swamp cooler? Maybe something in the water rather than just the humidity? I feel like someone else once experimented with higher humidity for hedgehogs & found that it improved skin, but I don't recall them mentioning any negative effects on the nails. I'm not sure how long the experiment lasted though, or how many updates they really gave.

As far as biotin, it's excreted in urine, so it's not one of the vitamins easy to overdose on. But I'd still check with your vet before supplementing it & see if she has a recommendation for an amount. This is what I found recommended for humans:
"Infants and children-
Birth to 3 years of age: 10 to 20 micrograms (mcg).
4 to 6 years of age: 25 mcg.
7 to 10 years of age: 30 mcg.
Adolescents and adults-
30 to 100 mcg."
(http://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements/biotin-oral-route/description/drg-20062359)

IMO, I don't think it'd hurt to supplement it carefully & watch to see if there are any changes either way. I would suggest just doing a B-complex supplement, but unfortunately some of the numbers can be overdosed more easily with more consequences, so that's probably not a great idea.


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## DesireeM81 (Jun 14, 2014)

Tap water for everything. The swamp cooler is attached to the hose. We don't have any extra chlorine in our water and it's not to hard either. I can try to do bottled water.  I'm really against bottled water though. Would filtered water through like a brita picture work?

Okay, I'll go out and see what I can find for biotin. I want it to be easy to dose. I'll call my vet to see what she suggests. She might not be able to help though but she can at least give them the go ahead to try or to wait.


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## twobytwopets (Feb 2, 2014)

http://bembu.com/biotin-foods

It's a list for people so omit nuts, seeds and avocado. But it's a start.

But if it was biotin wouldn't it affect quills, somehow? But that would probably take longer to see than in the nails.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

Agreed that the quills would take longer to show any side effects like being brittle. I was thinking, it does seem like there would be more noticeable side effects if biotin were the problem...but perhaps the nails is just the first indication? If the vet approves of the idea, I figure it can't hurt to see if it helps at all, at least. It's frustrating when there are numerous possible causes & you don't have much to go on with figuring out what the problem is!

Yeah, if you don't want to do bottled water, a filter would be good to try. Does your city publish information about water quality anywhere? Sometimes there are minor increases of levels of different things that aren't enough to affect humans or cause any kind of warnings, but could possibly have an effect on small animals? I'm not sure how likely that is though, or if it would cause nail issues. Pretty much just throwing ideas out there!


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## DesireeM81 (Jun 14, 2014)

Hmm maybe I'll see if she wants some avocado. I left a message with the vet, hopefully she will get back to me soon. Water level is said to be moderately hard, which is right in the middle of the hardness levels. That's all I could find on water quality.


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## MomLady (Aug 14, 2010)

Were your 2 hedgies related? Sometimes nail deformities can be hereditary.

I do all my running on my treadmill and my toenails look like crap. They are constantly falling out and look deformed. Doctor said it was because your foot is moving forward on the belt and the belt is moving backward, it's like double impact. (yeah, but my knees can't take the pounding on the pavement!).

I am wondering if it could be a nail fungus--I have one of those too. Meds help for awhile but they destroy your liver. I lost my big toenail when I did the 3 Day walk/60 miles for Breast cancer. It's had a fungus ever since. It cleared up and then came back. Doctor says it's just cosmetic.

I have also got an infection in the nail bed of one of my fingers. It was red, swollen, hurt like h3ll. I had to soak it and it was filled with pus and I lanced it. It was gross, but it felt so much better. It was caused by a infected paper cut to the cuticle. It's called paranychia. I was on antibiotics for it. 

I am almost betting that your hedgie might have something like this. It was a TINY cut. 
Can you soak it in warm water? The antibiotics should help. 

Then again, it could be something completely different.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

I wouldn't risk trying avocado, I don't think it's known to be definitely safe for hedgehogs.


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## DesireeM81 (Jun 14, 2014)

The two hedgehogs were not related. All of Rose's nails looked bad. Only a few Penny's nails look bad. I'm doing morning soaks of her nails in warm water. 

Should I call the vet and ask for a prescription of antibiotics or should I do a triple antibiotic ointment? I also have vetericyn (the spray), one of our quail chicks has an infected eye and it was suggested to be used. It worked really well on him and can be ingested without harming them. I've been using it on him since he was 6 days old when the infection appeared. I'm going back to the springs tomorrow to the same vet for one of my ferrets so I can just pick up a prescription. I just don't like overusing antibiotics if I can avoid them.

She has some peeling on the skin around the two lost nail, the skin underneath though looks healthy and pink.


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## twobytwopets (Feb 2, 2014)

Searching the web didn't give much results for a hedgehog with an infected nail bed. So broadened it out dogs and cats for possible other clues.

http://www.wiki-pet.com/health/dog/condition/index.php?condition_id=404

http://www.petmd.com/dog/conditions/skin/c_multi_nail_nailbed_disorder

http://veterinarycalendar.dvm360.com/nail-diseases-proceedings?rel=canonical

http://www.bcskinvet.com/paw-nail-disorders.php


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## DesireeM81 (Jun 14, 2014)

I don't think it's ring worm. I have been handling her nails for months now. If it was ringworm, I would have it too yes?

I'm thinking a skin scrape might be a good route to go. The vet didn't mention fungus but there was really no signs of it since we thought the nail was impacted. (Which might still be the case)

I'll send these to my vet today and we will see what she says. She hasn't returned my call yet so maybe she can respond to an email better. Vets seem to avoid phones.


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## twobytwopets (Feb 2, 2014)

With ringworm you would probably see some other signs. Although all ringworm is just a fungus. If anything it could give your vet a place to start looking. 
It very well could be a small scratch, abrasion on her toe or stubbed toe, causing it to swell. Poopy boots can't be good for a cut.


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## DesireeM81 (Jun 14, 2014)

That was one of the reasons I was wondering whether to remove her wheel but she is my big wheeler and I feel like it would really stress her out but I would love for her to get better.


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## DesireeM81 (Jun 14, 2014)

So vet is going to talk to me tomorrow about some more options. She said something about a wash that I can use to promote regrowth of skin. I am going to supplement at home with some biotin (dosing that was a doozy) and we added flax seed to the diet as well. In any case, Penny should be on the mend. Just in case, I added the same biotin and flax seed to Winter's food as well.


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## Soyala_Amaya (Aug 1, 2011)

I was going to come back to this and suggest vetericyn, it's great for cleaning small animals skin that have infections. I keep it on hand just in case.


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## DesireeM81 (Jun 14, 2014)

It's done wonders for my little quails eye. He's almost completely gunk free now. I got a wash from the vet anyway and have been doing washes with her foot baths. The funny thing is, I got the sample for free because it is such a small area she didn't want to charge me for a full bottle. :lol: Peny is doing so much better. The swelling on the one toe is completely gone and is now "Scabbing" over. There is no blood so I guess it's just drying up.  I'm cleaning up any dead skin daily. I also ran out of mealworms and superworms because it keeps her busy while I'm messing her foot. She's been spoiled this past week. :lol: All and all it looks like we are in recovery.


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## DesireeM81 (Jun 14, 2014)

*Update!*

I went on vacation for a week and left Penny in the capable hands of my fiance. She has been doing very well. Both nails that fell off are doing very well and healing nicely. All bruising and redness have disappeared.


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