# 4 month old, very huffy



## SpiritWolves1 (Apr 5, 2012)

i just bought another hedgehog, ya ya i know, another one!? soo soon? lol but ya, he is a little 4 month old, still quilling but he is SUPER DUPER scared. he isnt mean just really scared, any ways i can help him get over this? and bond with me?


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## moxieberry (Nov 30, 2011)

Do you still have your teacher's hedgehog in the house at this point? If so, you have to quarantine them. Keep them in separate rooms and wash your hands between interacting with them.

As for how to bond with a huffy hedgehog, just make sure you take him out to interact with every day, no matter how grumpy and uncooperative he might be about it. If you put him back in his cage in response to the grumpiness, he'll learn that being grumpy is a way to be left alone, and it will reinforce the behavior. If you don't have a sleeping bag/cuddle sack, I would recommend getting one. The hedgehog can feel secure inside of it while being held in your lap. Just having him in your lap while watching TV or using the computer counts as bonding time, because it helps him get used to you and your smell. If you put his bowl of kibble on your chest (while laying down) or in your lap for him to eat, he'll associate the positive experience of "food" with you.


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## SpiritWolves1 (Apr 5, 2012)

i do still have the teachers hedgehog, but they are in the same room, just one in the closet and one in the middle of the room, thats about the best i can do abut the quarantine thing, and about the food thing, the food they were feeding him at the store was ferret food and im not sure if he ate any of if ( i bought the brand in case he was used to it). and when i got him into the car, i noticed a scab like thing on his 2 left legs,( he wouldnt let me see anything other then his face when i took him out at the store) and his skin is very dry, but he was in shavings, and didnt have a wheel or anything, his water was also full of shavings, i couldnt leave him there ( he had just come in on friday and i could tell he wasnt happy at all and so scared) i know it was probably a bad thing to buy him but i felt so sorry for him, the breeder is called Dragon Trade (?) i do have a hedgehog bag and had him out in the living room this morning ( my friend was over and she just loves him so we had him out a few times) and he would crawl around on the floor and has no trouble walking or anything, as for the dry skin do you think it could be his quilling? im seeing this teeny quills everywhere in the cage and i pick them out of his bedding, but he is just so scared, is there anything else i could do apart from the ones you suggested, just so i have a wider range?


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## EinsteinsMama (Jan 18, 2012)

With any new hedgie, you should take them to the vet for a general check up. Even if they seem healthy, it's a peace of mind. 

He sounds like a normal hedgie. Hedgies have very bad vision and rely on scent. He needs to be used to your scent and associate it with calm and loving, which in some cases, can take a while. No two hedgies are ever the same. Keep a daily schedule of when you hold him, feed him, clean his cage/wheel and a strict light schedule.


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## shetland (Sep 2, 2008)

Make sure you wash your hands between touching your little hedgies.


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

Dragon Trading company is a wholesaler that sells to pet stores in mostly Western Canada, although they used to ship to Ontario stores as well. 

Spend lots of quiet time with him and cover him with a towel or have him in a hedgie bag when you have him with you. He'ell feel more secure being covered. If he'es walking around the floor, he will come around as soon as he becomes comfortable. 

Make certain he is eating well. Count his kibble so you know exactly how much. 

Watch for more sores and if he gets more, it's vet time because it could be a staph infection. Also watch for any sneezing, runny nose, or excessive nose licking as it could indicate an URI. 

Can't wait for pictures.


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## SpiritWolves1 (Apr 5, 2012)

well the scab things on his legs are going away  so maybe he just scratched himself ( the cage he was in at the store had a mirror at the back that was split in half so they could open the cage) and he is eating like a PIG lol he eats as much as Kumo already, although Kumo will NOT eat the ferret kibble, was hoping he would but i guess not lol and i still need a name for the lil guy so i can stop calling him lil guy lol so if you have a name that you think would fit just shout it out lol


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## raerysdyk (Oct 21, 2011)

You keep referencing ferret food. Are you in the process of transitioning your two on to some cat food? The couple of ferret foods that I just looked up have a pretty high protein and fat content...something a little lower would be better for your two. 

Good luck with your new one! Don't forget to interact with your originally hedgie too! They both need lots and lots of love since they are both new to you.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

raerysdyk said:


> You keep referencing ferret food. Are you in the process of transitioning your two on to some cat food? The couple of ferret foods that I just looked up have a pretty high protein and fat content...something a little lower would be better for your two.


I agree with this - most ferret foods are high in protein because ferrets are obligate carnivores like cats. Keep in mind that you don't want to go above 35% for protein content. Some people keep their cut-off point even lower, around 32% or 33%. High protein content will cause liver or kidney damage...Suffering from sleep deprivation right now and can't remember which.


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## SpiritWolves1 (Apr 5, 2012)

the ferret food gets mixed into Dallas's food ( thats his name, Dally for short  ) and he only gets around 40 peices and its just little round balls smaller then a pea, and smaller then the top part of an eraser on a pencil, and the vet actually recommended the brand i have for him, its called Extrusion, the crude protein is 38% and crude fat is 22% and fibre is 3.5% plus 10% moisture. Dally is getting more used to me and lets me pick him up and actually fell asleep in my lap when i was cuddling him on the couch  i love him so much <3 <3


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## raerysdyk (Oct 21, 2011)

I tried to look up the food you referenced, can you provide a link to somewhere that sells it?

I guess I'm a little confused on the food issue. So, lil Dally is eating ferret food and "extrusion"? Both foods are a little high in protein, if this is the case. Unfortunately, some vets don't have a ton of experience with hedgies, and they will recommend food choices based on what literature says. As we all know, sometimes what is written doesn't match up with current knowledge... IMO, I would change the food to something lower in fat and protein. Unless you have a super active hedgie, it's best to offer a food with a fat content below 15% and protein levels below 30%. Like lilysmommy said, (and I can't remember either) but foods high in fat and protein can cause liver/ kidney failure- which is bad.

I'm glad you are having luck with bonding.  I love hedgie cuddle time!


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## SpiritWolves1 (Apr 5, 2012)

lol he doesnt hiss at me or click anymore, i can even pet him! his quills are so soft <3 well its called Living World, Excursion Ferret Food, and he is quite active i guess but im not sure, i wear ear plugs while i sleep. he starts as a nice calm walk while i go to sleep and then at 3 in the morning if one of my earplugs falls out he is just ZZOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMM! and he even knocks the wheel off the side of the cage he goes so fast, i need to tape it now so he doesnt hurt himself, plus he only gets 50 pieces of it with his other food, and he was a bit under weight when i bought him. ( even though at the store he had a whole small dog food bowl of the ferret food- i was appalled- just sitting in his cage and as soon as he ate any of it they put more in.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

What other food are you mixing this ferret food with? As said before, the ferret food is too high in protein. You really should change it to something lower in protein for your hedgie's health and safety. If he's on the skinny side, you can use a kitten food that has a higher fat percentage to keep him healthy, but you want the protein to be below 35%. Though usually following vet recommendations is good, not all vets know everything they should about hedgehogs before treating them. Everything I've ever seen online about hedgehog diets has said that protein should be kept below 35% in order to prevent organ failure. Better to be safe than sorry.

And that's great that he's settling in and getting more comfortable with you!


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## SpiritWolves1 (Apr 5, 2012)

i mix it with hamburger ( 1 1/2 table spoons ) with carrots ( boiled) and hard boiled egg. with the 35% shouldnt he be fine though? cuz its 38% or should i cut what i give him in half?


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## moxieberry (Nov 30, 2011)

SpiritWolves1 said:


> i mix it with hamburger ( 1 1/2 table spoons ) with carrots ( boiled) and hard boiled egg. with the 35% shouldnt he be fine though? cuz its 38% or should i cut what i give him in half?


You shouldn't reduce the amount of food to address the too-high protein percent - you should find a better food to switch to.


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## shetland (Sep 2, 2008)

How are the baby hedgies doing? Any pictures? Stories? Updates? Anything? Heeeeeeeee


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

moxieberry said:


> SpiritWolves1 said:
> 
> 
> > i mix it with hamburger ( 1 1/2 table spoons ) with carrots ( boiled) and hard boiled egg. with the 35% shouldnt he be fine though? cuz its 38% or should i cut what i give him in half?
> ...


Seconded. Also, if you're mixing this stuff with hamburger and egg as well, both of those things are high in protein too. Overall, you are giving him too much protein and you seriously should change out the 38% food. I don't know how many times we have to say this.


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## pickles17 (Feb 18, 2012)

So did you end up being able to keep Kumo or do you still have to return him after his meds?


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## MLHollywood (Apr 22, 2012)

Although people and hedgehogs aren't the same we're both mammals, so our organs work in similar ways. Very high protein diets can cause liver and kidneys damage for humans too. It really bogs down the system and strains those organs when they're trying to do their job. The liver in particular processes proteins, so you don't want to overload your hedgie's liver! It makes it work too hard and will ultimately lead to failure.


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## SpiritWolves1 (Apr 5, 2012)

okay, what foods do you recommend then? i live in a small town in the middle of no where and hardly ever go to the city, so im going to have to keep feeding him the hamburger, ill just take out the kibble, nad try to get more chicken in it then hamburger.

Kumo has been given to my younger sister for the time being, because i dont like having them in the same room, he is still on medication and the swelling hasnt gone down very much, im starting to think its going to be a tumor instead of our hoped for abscess.


I havent gotten any pictures of him on a camera yet, just on my phone, so ill get some today, once im done his laundry and cleaning his wheel and such, ( his wheel is NASTY, it was white 3 days ago, today it was BROWN, its gross,i think he poops more on the wheel then he does in his litter box! ) and he is just soo adorable and lively! when he is on my lap he trys to climb up onto my belly and starts trying to play tug of war against himself with my shirt <3


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## Hillybean (Jun 10, 2010)

Do you have a wal-mart?

You can buy Purina One Chicken and Rice cat food from wal-mart. It is on the recommended food list and would be better than the ferret food.

I then would cut back on the meats and proteins source, give as treats only.

There's a recommended food list sticky in the diet area of the forum. It's a huge list of foods that you can give.

Even if you have to travel for better food, it would be worth it, because it will last you a long while with only two hogs.You could also just go online to petsmart and have better food shipped to you.


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## pickles17 (Feb 18, 2012)

I meant is Kumo now your family's to keep? As before you mentioned you could only keep him until his medication was finished and then would have to return him to your teacher.

Hedgehogs are best off with a good quality cat food which you can buy at most any pet store. It should fit in with protein/fat recommendations the people mentioned above. Personally, I feed a mix of Wellness and Blue Buffalo weight control. But there is a large variety of different cat foods you can feed. I'm sure there is a thread on this somewhere. It would be worth your while to find it and read it.


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## SpiritWolves1 (Apr 5, 2012)

we do have a walmart but it sucks. i will look there next time im there but im not sure ill find anything good, i will also look at the vets office, they sell food and stuff there too. i will try the Wellness and Blue Buffalo weight control mix if i can find those.

so no more hamburger for kumo either then? its the only thing he will eat, we have tryed all sorts of cat foods and everything but he just ignores it. i then tried to put him back on his old food, just to get somefood into him, he wont eat it either now, what should i do about that?

and Kumo isnt our pet yet, the abscess hasnt gone down very little, if not none over the week and a few days he's been on the medication, if it is a tumor we will have to put him to sleep, the vet said its too risky to do an operation on him with him being up there in age ( 5 years) and down there in weight. but if he does have to be put to sleep we are finding a breeder and getting 2 more hogs. another for me and one for my sister.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

SpiritWolves1 said:


> we do have a walmart but it sucks. i will look there next time im there but im not sure ill find anything good, i will also look at the vets office, they sell food and stuff there too. i will try the Wellness and Blue Buffalo weight control mix if i can find those.
> 
> so no more hamburger for kumo either then? its the only thing he will eat, we have tryed all sorts of cat foods and everything but he just ignores it. i then tried to put him back on his old food, just to get somefood into him, he wont eat it either now, what should i do about that?
> 
> and Kumo isnt our pet yet, the abscess hasnt gone down very little, if not none over the week and a few days he's been on the medication, if it is a tumor we will have to put him to sleep, the vet said its too risky to do an operation on him with him being up there in age ( 5 years) and down there in weight. but if he does have to be put to sleep we are finding a breeder and getting 2 more hogs. another for me and one for my sister.


Make sure you can get good quality food for your hedgehogs before you get them. Also make sure your parents will be on board for the vet costs that will come with additional hedgehogs.


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## moxieberry (Nov 30, 2011)

Lilysmommy said:


> Make sure you can get good quality food for your hedgehogs before you get them. Also make sure your parents will be on board for the vet costs that will come with additional hedgehogs.


I agree with this. I suggest making sure you have the basics of hedgehog ownership figured out before you get any more of them. Also, since your parents were reluctant to pay for the vet costs for the hedgehog from your teacher, are they going to be willing to pay for any vet costs for the other hedgehogs? Having multiple hedgehogs means everything costs more, so definitely consider that and see what your parents think.


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## pickles17 (Feb 18, 2012)

Three hedgehogs is a lot, and keep in mind you'll need three cages, three wheels, three water dishes, three food dishes, three huts and three of everything else a hedgehog needs. Hedgehogs *can't* be housed together, and if you get females the male can't be anywhere around it. I have owned three hedgehogs in my time (not at all at once - two at a time, however two have passed away), just have one at the moment and I chose not to get another one, as my two older guys were close in age and died within six months of each other which was extremely hard on me. In the past year, I have dealt with both of them getting tumours, having to administer antibiotics by syringe for both, have to force feed one by syringe, getting one of them put down (the other had a scheduled appointment but passed away before the date). I had to go to the vet so many times, initially, follow-up, tests, more antibiotics, euthanasia and each time I went it cost $100+. These costs don't even include the other times I have had to bring them to the vet over the years (quills falling out, allergic reaction, URI). I chose just to have one because the cost of having two (especially close in age) was too much and to having them close in age and passing away around the same time was just devastating. *I have brought my hedgehogs to the vet more than any other pet I own.* I paid for these costs on my own because that is the responsibility I took on when I chose to have them as pets. In your situation, you have to have your parents pay for their vet bills which you have already described there was reluctance and the "he will get better on his own" attitude. I caution you to really think about whether having THREE hedgehogs is a good idea. Perhaps one for yourself, and one for your sister would be sufficient, then you both can learn how to care for a hedgehog throughout it's lifespan.


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

I think you should stick to the hedgehog you have right now for a few months before adding more. Right now, hedgehogs are still new and exciting to you but once the thrill wears off, you may feel that one is enough. Too often we have seen people jump into getting more than one and then 6 months later, the thrill has worn off, circumstances have changed, and they are finding they don't have the time.

Also consider that summer is coming with vacations, activities etc. If your family goes away, it's much easier to find someone to care for one hedgehog than 2 or 3.


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## SpiritWolves1 (Apr 5, 2012)

i have considered all of that, and my youngest sister has decided she doesnt want one now. Kumo has been diagnosed with a tumor, and the teacher cant afford the cost of surgery, plus the vet already said it was too risky, so i am not buying him, she will be putting him to sleep and i will get his cage and everything else that he came with.

I do have a hog sitter already, she has owned multiple hedgies at a time and said she would LOVE to take Dally when we leave for more then 2 weeks ( we have room in our camper for Dally so he will just go with us most of the time. and if i do get another, which i probably wont now because i just sold off my tiger salamander whom i had owned for 6 years, i will be getting something else, fish or something, and my older sister is getting a pair of degoos ( not sure it thats spelled right but oh well) so we will have lots of pets. plus we live on a farm too so we have farm animals also.

since i own Dallas we are willing to pay all of his vet bills and expenses, we just didnt want to spend too much money on Kumo if he was going to pass on soon or have to be put to sleep. plus it wasnt our decision either.


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## shetland (Sep 2, 2008)

I am so sorry to hear about little Kumo. I was hoping for a positive outcome.I would not want to see him suffer. I am glad he got to know what it feels like to be truly cared for, even if for a little while. They are such deserving little ones.


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## SpiritWolves1 (Apr 5, 2012)

ya, i feel bad for him because there isnt anything the vet can do for him now, at least thats what he said when we were there last time. its just getting bigger and the antibiotics arent working anymore


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## Hillybean (Jun 10, 2010)

Degus, are a lot of work also. Like hedgehogs, they can take a while to gain your trust. I have owned many Degus (ran a rescue for them at one time), but information online is very misleading in reguards to them. My oldest passed away at 10years old a few years back. I haven't gotten any since because his passing was too much for me.

Anyways, not trying to h-jack a thread, but if you would like more information on them or need help, please feel free to pm me .


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