# zoo food????



## debyc08 (Dec 18, 2008)

i went to the vet today and he told me to look for a insectivore or bird of prey diet to feed with the cat food.

this was the 3 options he gave me...

Diet Choice No. 1 (for one adult hedgehog of 550 g BW):
1 heaping tsp. Bird of prey diet or insectivore diet
1.5 heaping tsp high quality cat/kitten chow (ex: Science Diet®, Iams®, C/D® cat food, Ferret Chow®)
1 heaping tsp fruit/vegetable mixture
6-10 small mealworms or 1-2 crickets (more if pregnant or lactating)

Diet Choice No.2 (for one adult hedgehog per day):
3 heaping tsp high quality cat/kitten choice
1 heaping tsp fruit/vegetable mix
6 small mealworms or 1-2 crickets

Diet Choice No. 3 (for 1 adult per day):
3-4 teaspoons commercial insectivore diet (ex: Reliable Protein Products, Pretty Bird Intl)
5-6 mealworms or 1-2 cricket
*For younger or pregnant/lactating hedgies, use kitten or ferret formulations; adult hedgies may use "Lite" adult cat food.

**Fruit/vegetable mix: chop together 1/2 cup diced leafy dark greens (spinach, kale, leaf lettuce), 1/4 tsp. diced carrot,1/4 tsp. diced apple, 1/4 tsp. banana, 1/4 tsp. diced grape or raisin, 1/4 tsp. vitamin/mineral powder (Vionate or crushed Feline Favor tab.)

what everyone does is #2, but i was thinking #1 is more of a natural diet for them... so, i'm on a search looking for insectivore or bird of prey diet thats not the commercial at petstores or one thats made in someone garage either...

the vet told to see if a can find a zoo that would sell it to me or look online, but did some to look for Nebraska brand, but i didnt find anything for insectivore.. i emailed them.

but i did find this http://www.zoofood.com/insectivore.html what do you think?????? i may call the vet tomorrow and see what he thinks...


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## Immortalia (Jan 24, 2009)

I don't like that the first ingredient is a by-product :? 

And I'd be worried about the "bird of prey" diet, as most bird food(as far as I know from what I've seen at pet stores, and haveing budgies) is that there are seeds mixed in. Hedgies aren't meant to eat seeds of any sort, and besides being difficult for them to eat, they can get stuck on say, the roof of their mouths. 

Also, cat food wise, I'd stick to Reaper's list, rather than the examples you gave.

I'm not sure if they need extra vitamins/minerals added into their diet. I think there was a thread about this previous. I'll post if I can find it.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

The problem with most insectivore or hedgehog foods is that they aren't formulated for domesticated African Pygmy Hedgehogs. They may be fine for wild European hedgehogs, but wild hedgehogs in general only live a couple of years. Most of the insectivore or hedgehog foods have seeds, raisins, or other things that pose choking hazards, or just aren't good for hedgehogs. I wouldn't feed a bird of prey food, unless it fit the guidelines Reaper uses for good cat food choices, and unless it didn't have any choking or illness hazards. That means no seeds, no raw meat, none of the preservatives that are dangerous for hedgies (and other animals), needs to have meat or meat meal as the first ingredient. By-product meal is not good, it's just the bones and leftover bits from an animal, rather than the actual meat.

I'm also not sure that they need extra vitamins or minerals. But if you feed any hard vegetables, you need to remember to cook them first, with no spices. Carrots and other veggies like that can pose choking hazards if fed raw.


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## debyc08 (Dec 18, 2008)

Immortalia said:


> Also, cat food wise, I'd stick to Reaper's list, rather than the examples you gave.
> 
> I'm not sure if they need extra vitamins/minerals added into their diet. I think there was a thread about this previous. I'll post if I can find it.


thanks, yea i dont feed these cat foods but that was word for word what he gave me which is from exotic companion medicine handbook. i personally am feeding royal canin kitty..

i dont know because i feel as everyone on the boards pull one way and my vet in another. i mean i know i need to decide what i feel is best for my hedgie. but going to the vet confused me more...

my vet works with monkey jungle, parrot jungle and the zoo here in miami, only in the vet office 2 times a week. :? i dont know, i think i'm going to have ALOT of research to do and see what i'm going to do...


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## nikki (Aug 28, 2008)

I also wonder if the information the vet is getting from that book isn't geared more toward the wild european hedgehog and not AHP's. It would explain alot as zoo's usually have the european hedgehogs and not AHP's.


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## Immortalia (Jan 24, 2009)

Here we go, found the thing about supplements:

From http://www.hedgehogcentral.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1553&p=12484&hilit=vitamin#p12484

You get:


Reaper said:


> If you are feeding a mix of high quality cat foods from my list there is no need for vitamin supplements unless advised to do so by a vet. But generally no supplements are needed.


And since Reaper's basically our hedgie nutritionalist :lol: I'd take his word for it.


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## debyc08 (Dec 18, 2008)

the vet also said that i can put a few drops of linatone and fish oil ( only omega 3 not 6) in his food for his skin....

one more thing!!!!!!! 

he gave me diflucan to give him because he had yeast in his stool.. we are going to treat just in case, but when i told the vet the a breeder(sugar glider breeder i know) gives me mealies. she has a mealie farm and she puts brewers yeast in it, we thought it explained the yeast in the stool..


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## Immortalia (Jan 24, 2009)

debyc08 said:


> the vet also said that i can put a few drops of linatone and fish oil ( only omega 3 not 6) in his food for his skin....


I give 1 capsule of flax seed oil once a week for the skin. Coupled with flax oil rinse after a bath every other week.


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## Callie255 (Dec 24, 2008)

debyc08 said:


> Diet Choice No. 1 (for one adult hedgehog of 550 g BW):
> 1 heaping tsp. Bird of prey diet or insectivore diet
> 1.5 heaping tsp high quality cat/kitten chow (ex: Science Diet®, Iams®, C/D® cat food, Ferret Chow®)
> 1 heaping tsp fruit/vegetable mixture
> 6-10 small mealworms or 1-2 crickets (more if pregnant or lactating)


The thing that got me right away about this diet is that Science Diet and Iams are listed as high quality cat foods. With both having by-products as a first ingredient, I think that says alot about this diet.


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## debyc08 (Dec 18, 2008)

i think that the handbook this came from is outdated, so then the type of cat foods have also changed... i dont think that its a specific diet but more of a guide line of what they think they should be feed. 

i dont know if i'm going to follow this or not...


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## azyrios (Feb 2, 2009)

I would stick to what reaper has for foods because it is up to date and proven to work.

I would not feed any bird foods because of the change of seed and choking hazards.

Use flax seed oil capsules as opposed to fish oils. The flax seed capsules will not expire, and can be pokes with a pin in order to apply it. If you are treating him for yeast, i would not apply any oils to his back until you are done the treatment as oil will make any yeast infection worse.
To apply it put 1 drop on each shoulder and 1 drop on the rump and then 2-3 drops in his food.


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## debyc08 (Dec 18, 2008)

azyrios said:


> I would stick to what reaper has for foods because it is up to date and proven to work.
> 
> I would not feed any bird foods because of the change of seed and choking hazards.
> 
> ...


i didnt really think of feeding any bird foods, because it just don't make any sense to plus the chocking hazards. i was more thinking for something for an insectivore, but if there really isnt anything better than what we are doing. i'm fine with it, i just wanted TO MAKE SURE its the best thing for him, and i'm not turning my nose to something because it is different.

thank you for the advise on not using the oils till after the treatment.... i didnt know that.


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