# Fresh Foods?



## HurricaneKatt (May 12, 2010)

Hey! You guys probably don't remember me, but I was here a little last summer. I sometimes babysit a hedgie over the summers for a friend. His name is Blue and he is obese, so little Blue is going on a diet. :lol: The vet suggested feeding him more fresh goods, like veggies and fruits, as he really wasn't getting them before. Also more insects, and low-fat kibble. I found a list on here that had some good and bad fruits/veggies which was very helpful, but it was not a very expansive list. I has hoping to get some suggestions from you guys.
Also, what about leafy greens? I have an iguana so I have a constant supply of leafy greens. I always have collard and mustard greens, and then I rotate through a wide variety of other greens, fruits, and veggies. 
Is canned pumpkin (pumpkin puree, not pie filling! Only ingredients: pumpkin and water) okay? What about meat, fruit, and veggie baby foods?
Leafy greens? (Mustard, Collard, Turnip (greens), kale, swiss chard, escarole, watercress...)

Then what about bugs? I know mealies should be kept to low amounts as they have a high amount of chitin which can build up and lead to blockages. He loves crickets. 
Are nightcrawlers okay? (I was under the impression they were?)
Roaches?
Bloodworms? (I have some frozen bloodworms from an old fish tank that I no longer have running)

Thanks!


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## SnufflePuff (Apr 16, 2009)

Glad to hear you're getting this guy eating better!  

-Leafy Greens are safe for them, one of our members MissC has her hedgehogs on a more natural diet (more bugs, meats, veggies and less kibble) and she feeds mixed greens I believe. I'm just not sure how much luck you'll have getting him to eat them :lol: 
-Pumpkin is definitely okay for them. I wouldn't give more than 1/2 tsp per night. People on here mostly use it for diarrhea/constipation but I'm thinking the fibre may actually help him lose a few pounds.
-As far as veggies goes, feeding some veggies at night may actually help him fill up a bit and not eat as much kibble and start to lose a bit of weight. My picky girls really like broccoli (cooked, chopped up) but don't like much else so I can't really help you there
-Any PLAIN cooked meat is fine (chicken's usually best) and organic baby food is great (meat-based, veggie-based, fruit-based, they are all good - just make sure they're organic and don't contain added sodium). 

-As far a bugs go - LIVE mealies won't lead to blockages (well unless you're feeding like 20 a night), it's the freeze-dried ones you need to be concerned about. Mealies ARE fattening however so I would feed less mealies and more crickets (way less fat). Not sure about the other bugs, I've only ever fed Mealies, Crickets and wax/butter worms (these are super fattening though). 
-Bloodworms however usually aren't good. One of the not-so-good commercial hedgehog foods contains them and I've heard of hedgehogs getting nasty poops from them.


What brands of kibble is he on right now? What's the fat content?

-The other way to promote weight loss is more activity. Does he have a good solid surface wheels that spins well? Are his nails short enough (long nails will cause them not to exercise enough). You can also try get him to run outside the cage more.

-Also what kind of heating system/lighting system does he have? If they arent getting enough light (12-14 hours per day) and enough heat (76-80F) it can make them a bit slower and this could atttribute to his weight gain.

Hope that helps a little bit


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

SnufflePuff covered pretty much everything! I just wanted to add a positive vote to the addition of veggies and such. My hedgehog Lily wasn't really overweight, but the vet had told me that she really shouldn't gain anymore. I ended up changing her diet to include baby food and veggies every night (and now she also gets crickets every night as well) and she's lost about 20 grams and looks great.  And just a quick tip, if you find that he doesn't want to try veggies or veggie baby food, maybe try mixing them with a meat baby food or a low-fat wet cat food. Lily will eat veggie baby foods that she doesn't like if they're mixed with meats (such as a broccoli/carrot one I've been mixing with wet cat food the last couple nights).

Also, I know roaches are fed, there's a few members on this forum that feed them. I'm not sure about nightcrawlers either though. And I wouldn't feed too much fruit or fruit baby foods, they're more sugary than the veggies, though they're still healthy.


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## HurricaneKatt (May 12, 2010)

Thanks guys! That is very helpful! I will look up the kibble when I get home tonight. HE is actually on 3 types. His original kibble (because you know how they are about switching foods! Worse than ferrets! :roll:  ), the new low-fat kibble, and a hedgie kibble. 

Can anyone recommend a good guideline diet? Like say, veggies 4 times a week, fruit 1, bugs 3... or even along the lines of 50% kibble, 30% bugs, 15% veggies, 5% fruit...? :?: 


Just something in either of those formats, so I can have a general idea of how I should be feeding him for his maximum health benefit.


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## fracturedcircle (May 31, 2010)

SnufflePuff said:


> one of our members MissC has her hedgehogs on a more natural diet


just for the record: i do too.  as of over six months ago.


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## HurricaneKatt (May 12, 2010)

fracturedcircle said:


> SnufflePuff said:
> 
> 
> > one of our members MissC has her hedgehogs on a more natural diet
> ...


What do you feed?
I am hoping for some menu suggestions so I can plan a little better...


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## fracturedcircle (May 31, 2010)

HurricaneKatt said:


> fracturedcircle said:
> 
> 
> > SnufflePuff said:
> ...


Sweetie LOVES plain steamed chicken breast and then he gets veggies like baby carrots, zucchini, sweet corn, green peas, green beans... haven't tried leafy greens, but i will. all the veggies we get are organic. he loves watermelon and yesterday he ate some honeydew, but he doesn't get that often due to all the sugar. he also wouldn't touch any baby food.  anyway, he always has kibble available, but he goes for chicken and veggies, that little weirdo of mine. :lol: he gets about 3 lives mealies every night and also 1-2 ZooMed caterpillars about every other night. he wouldn't touch crickets in any form.

Harvey also likes chicken + various baby foods (we put those two together, so it's like chicken in a fancy sauce :lol: ). he eats kibble more than Sweetie.

quite often instead of chicken they get chicken meatballs: ground chicken, a bit of egg yolk, brown rice, freshly cooked oats, or buckwheat + finely grated carrots, green peas, or squash

sometimes they get cooked lean beef (instead of the chicken, obviously), but not too often because i suspect that it is still too rich.

they are not overweight at all and their weights are very stable.


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## SnufflePuff (Apr 16, 2009)

fracturedcircle said:


> SnufflePuff said:
> 
> 
> > one of our members MissC has her hedgehogs on a more natural diet
> ...


I KNEW there was someone else, and I had a feeling it was you :lol: Just didn't want to jump the gun on that one 

That's awesome! I am trying to get the girls and Oakley on more healthy/natural food but they are so stubborn :roll:


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

HurricaneKatt said:


> Can anyone recommend a good guideline diet? Like say, veggies 4 times a week, fruit 1, bugs 3... or even along the lines of 50% kibble, 30% bugs, 15% veggies, 5% fruit...? :?:
> 
> Just something in either of those formats, so I can have a general idea of how I should be feeding him for his maximum health benefit.


Personally, I do at least one meat or veggie (baby food, wet cat food, or the real thing) every night. Most nights are a meat and veggie or several veggies, depending on what I have on hand or what I have opened. Fruits are treats, whether baby food or real thing, Lily gets those every 2-4 nights, again depending on what I have open/on hand. Crickets she gets every night (anywhere from 3-5), and mealworms are also treats because of having more fat, so those are every other night or couple nights like the fruit. Kibble she has on hand at all times, she'll eat more or less of that depending on what the rest of her meal was for that night and whether she liked it. I also have freeze-dried shrimp for her right now, which she's finally decided she likes! So those will be another every-few-nights-treat. Don't know if all of that helps much, but hope it does!


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## HurricaneKatt (May 12, 2010)

Cool! Thanks for the info guys!


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## HurricaneKatt (May 12, 2010)

Ok. He has been on a diet of Purina cat chow indoor formula and the occasional crickets.









Then after the vet trip they added UltraBlend Select Nutrient Rich Hedgehog Diet










And then before she left, the owner also dropped off Iams weight control proactive health










I have been adding greens - which he seems to like. And I intend to add (hopefully will get some bugs this week) more bugs, veggies, etc.

Is Bell pepper okay?
Parsnip?
Snap Peas?
pork?
turkey?


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## PJM (May 7, 2010)

I'm not sure about the pork, but the rest are fine.

I've also been trying to add more home cooked foods to Cholla & Zoey's diet.

One thing that helps me is to cook just a little extra of whatever we are having for dinner. I take some out before adding the seasonings for us. I like to crush or blend it up & freeze it in ice cube trays & then bit the cbes into snack size baggies in the freezer. 

I will also do the same thing for hedgies as I do for our "scrap veggie soup" dinner. Just save the left over bits of veggies in an on-going container in the fridge. When I get enought to do something with, I'll make veggie soup. For the hedgies, I'll add in some softened kibble & blend it up. Then freeze if in small containers.

Turkey's another good thing-because you usually have left over. I just take scraps of meat, blend it up with either broth or water, until it's a smooth paste. then again, freeze in ice cube trays.

I will usually mix the meat in with the other blended food for while they are out with me, but to keep in their cage overnight, I have started to give them just a thawed cube of veggie & a scoop the blended kibble mixture. Zoey also gets some moistened kibble & Cholla gets some hard kibble.

Also-I have a little experience with trying earthworms. You can feed them, but my hedgies won't touch them. I guess they don't taste great, even though I feed them veggie &fruit scraps.

Lots of ideas & different ways to do it! Just find what works for you!!

By the way, with the great amt of care you are showing toward this hedgie you're babysitting, do you have one of your own?


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## cylaura (Jan 13, 2011)

You've gotten tons of great advice so far! I'm sure Blue will be getting a more healthy and varied diet in no time. Here's my 'hedgie diet', if you happen to be like me and like to plan ahead/don't cook for yourself as often as you would like  :

What I do is make a big hedgie food mix - take fresh steamed veggies (carrots, broccoli, snap peas, water chestnuts, bell peppers etc.) cut up into pieces, cooked chicken or turkey, a little chicken broth, and a can or a half or so of wet cat food (I use one called Spot's Stew), mix it all together in a bowl, spoon it into ice cube trays, and freeze. My hedgie Liam gets one thawed cube every night, and he loves it! This method makes me 32 days worth of food at one time. :lol: He also gets about 20-25 kibble or so, in a separate dish (he won't eat mushy kibble :roll: ). 

As for bugs, he usually gets 3-5 mealies a night, and 5-7 crickets. He gobbles them right up! I use live mealworms and frozen crickets. I usually hide the crickets all around his cage, and he loves hunting them down. He's never missed one!  He weighs about 400g, and is a pretty active runner. 

The only fruit he likes (so far) is banana, so he gets some every once and a while. Hope all of this helps you! I'm definitely going to try and see if Liam will eat some leafy greens now.


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## HurricaneKatt (May 12, 2010)

Thanks guys! 

Ok so I have on the menu:
mustard greens
collard greens
parsnip
carrot
broccoli
bell pepper (red, green, orange, and yellow)
yellow squash
canned pumpkin puree
sugar snap peas

and meat babyfood:
chicken with gravy
turkey with gravy
beef with gravy
(they were the best I could find, the selections were low this week)

and I am going to the pet store tonight to get crickets and mealies. I'd try him on a few wax worms, but seeing as how he is supposed to be losing weight...   
Should I even bother with night crawlers then?

Also, I assume that if chicken is okay for them, so is most other poultry?
What about pork? Any answers on that yet?

Of the above veggies, which ones HAVE to be cooked? It would be _much _more convenient to feed him raw veggies... Partially because that is what I feed my other critters (iguana and rodents) and partially because my freezer space is currently taken up by even more critter food (meat for my carnivorous beasts, the ferrets).

What should the kibble:veggie:meat:insect ratio be? Keep in mind he is on a weight-loss diet.

What about the 3 kibbles he has. Are those all okay?

I appreciate all of the help here! I want to get him on a healthier diet, and have some sort of menu to hand off to the owner when she returns. I have about 2-3 more months left with him...


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

The veggies and baby foods all look great. As far as which veggies should be cooked, I'd say definitely carrot and broccoli, but everything else should be fine, just make sure they're bite-sized. I'm not sure about nightcrawlers, though. Poultry is all fine, just make sure it's well-cooked, of course. I wouldn't feed pork or other meats (beef, ham, etc.) since they tend to be fattier. I'm not sure on the ratios either...If it helps, Lily's nightly menu is usually 5 frozen crickets, sometimes a couple mealies (they're treats only), one of her other treats, about a tablespoon of meat/veggie baby foods and veggies, and her kibble. She eats between 10-20 kibble a night, and usually finishes everything else. She did lose about 20 grams after I started this menu, so it worked for her! I also hide crickets and her other treats around the cage, which gets her a bit more active. The crickets especially get her moving! The one thing I can suggest is to feed more veggies than meat, and more crickets than mealworms. Those will both help fill him up.

With his kibble, I would suggest removing the Purina Cat Chow. Anything with "chow" in the name is likely to be bad ingredients. You want to aim for something with a meat or meat meal as the first ingredient, and no corn in the first five ingredients. If you look at the dry cat food list, you might be able to find something off there that is available near you. The Iams isn't the best either (by-product is all of the leftover stuff of the bird, like beak, feet, etc.), but if you can get the Purina replaced first, that'd be good!

Also, kudos to you for doing so much to help this little guy, even when he's not your own baby.  You're the best hedgie-sitter!


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## fracturedcircle (May 31, 2010)

Lilysmommy said:


> You're the best hedgie-sitter!


no kidding!

let me know how the veggies fare. we've tried a little bit of turnip--the boys said, 'yuck.' :lol:

the ratios are not set in stone.

mine also get ZooMed caterpillars and ZooMed snails.

you SO need a hedgie of your own!


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## HurricaneKatt (May 12, 2010)

Anything with "Purina" in it is usually not the best.  :roll: If it were up to me, I would feed him the highest quality kibble I could find, and mostly fresh foods with kibble as more of a supplement. But I am not 100% sure what the owner will keep up on so (especially seeing as how they are tricky to convince to eat new foods) I want to keep the kibble she chose in the diet at least. That is the Iams (the Purina was his old kibble, pre-vet-trip and is just what is left over plus helping switch him to the new stuff).

I talked to the vet (she is my vet who I refereed my friend to) and she said that he weighed in at 552g!  haha Little chunker indeed! :lol: She wants him to lose maybe 30g, but said to go by his frame - he should not feel bony, but should not have rolls of fat (which he does), and he should feel good. As far as food ratios she recommended 30:30:30 for kibble:insect:veggie. She said the kibble is the rich, calorie dense part of the meal, the insects provide mental stimulation and natural instinct etc, and veggies help to dilute things and provide vitamins. [In the wild they do not have access to so much rich food (kibble) so quickly, so the veggie roughage is needed to dilute the richness.] She also said that since before he was simply on kibble (purina above) and the occasional cricket (owner was told too many too often would lead to a chitin blockage) that simply changing his diet should be enough to help him drop down to a healthier weight.

As for me getting a hedgie... nah!  I have my hands full with my own zoo! :lol: I own an iguana, a snake, 2 ferrets, and a hoard of rodents (hamsters - of which soon all but one will be rehomed), and mice (breeder-feeders).

As to the diet stuff. This is kind of what I do.  I am a mentor on another forum (SnufflePuff here knows me from that forum actually! I was her mentor hehe) where I help people transition their ferrets to a more natural, species-specific diet (raw meats!). Ferrets and iguanas both have very complicated and involved diets. I have also owned a variety of other reptiles in the past who of course had their own diet requirements. I take great pride in the care and well being of animals under my roof and I really enjoy the research and learning portion of it all. Babysitting Blue is the perfect chance for me to get that learning "rush" without overwhelming myself with too many pets! haha I love sharing info with people too (ever see that glazey eyed look on other people but you keep talking even though your brain is telling you to shut up? haha yep that is me!). So hopefully I can convince the owner to keep up with this diet, and maybe even get her to come by here! (not sure how much of a forum user she is though).

Thanks for the input! I will have more questions soon I am sure! haha


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

Hee, you sound like me. Owning Lily has started turning me into an animal diet nerd, and I've started looking at diet needs for other animals that I'd like to own someday. Ferrets are on the list, and reading what SnufflePuff wrote on here about ferret raw diets made me glee a little bit. :lol: And I do the same thing, where I keep rattling on about all of the requirements and needs that hedgies have, even when the other person is starting to get the "How do I get away...??" look.  I hope you can get his regular owner to implement at least some of the changes you're making! I don't see why she wouldn't get a decent cat food for him to eat, even one...It's not like they eat a lot. Just one $15 bag would last him 7-8 months! But maybe something you're doing will stick with her! Good luck!


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## cylaura (Jan 13, 2011)

Good for you for being such a good hedgie-sitter! Here's hoping your friend will appreciate all of your hard work and use the new diet. Also, hoping Blue doesn't give you too much trouble as you transition - I know some hedgies are REALLY picky. I swear, Liam wasn't interested in veggies/babyfood/anything healthy for weeks but I just kept trying, and one day it was like a lightbulb went off in his little head - "Hey! This stuff is actually GOOD!" :lol: 

I agree with Lilysmommy about the kibble: it really isn't too expensive considering how slowly they go through it! When I tell people about the cat food I buy, they often roll their eyes ("All that expensive food for a HEDGEHOG?") but really, it lasts for months and months, plus it makes me feel so much better knowing I'm feeding him the good stuff. 

Anyways, good luck! Hopefully you won't need any of that though.  Let us know how it goes!


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## fracturedcircle (May 31, 2010)

i am a diet nerd too... just for my animals mostly, since i must admit that i'm eating chocolate spread as i'm typing this. :lol: my dogs eat raw + healthy organic additions. i am a big believer in species-appropriate diet.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

fracturedcircle said:


> i am a diet nerd too... just for my animals mostly, since i must admit that i'm eating chocolate spread as i'm typing this. :lol:


Seconded! :lol: Lily eats a thousand times healthier than I do, with all her veggies! I mostly live on fast food and junk food.  :lol:


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## HurricaneKatt (May 12, 2010)

hehe My guilty pleasure this week? No-Bake cookies.  MMMMMMMMM <3

I didn't have time before work to count all of the mealies this morning, but it did look like Blue ate few if not all of them. So that is good. So far he has agreed to eat: mustard greens, collard greens, meal worms, and 2 new types of kibble (the hedgie kibble and the Iams). I want to keep trying new things every day. 

Mixing the foods very well so that the kibble dust coats everything seems to help. Dealing with diet switches for stubborn animals is my specialty! ;D :lol: He WILL be on a healthy diet whether he likes it or not!  Tonight I want to cook up some veggies for him.


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