# Peeing blood, UTI vs Uterine



## Hazesti

I'm waiting for my vet's office to open so I can call for a followup, but I though I might have a chance of getting experienced opinions here.

Quinn is 4 years and 3 months old. 

Quinn has had blood in her pee since last monday. I'd find drops only in her litter (a corner box with paper towels), amids the pee. Sometimes I'd only see a few drops in the pee puddle, but sometimes there seem to be more, or it was more mixed up with the pee. So last wednesday my boyfriend took her to a vet.

The vet told us of course that it could be either a UTI or an infection or cancer of the uterus. She decided to have us give her antibiotics (novolexin) for 2 weeks but that if we didn't see change in a few days, to go ahead with a hyserectomy. Basically I think she went with a solution that would skip expensive tests and echographies because of how likely it'd be for a girl hedgehog to have uterine problems at that age.

When she checked her out she gave Quinn a clean bill of health. She's in great condition, lively, curious, she kept running around the table to explore and she barely resisted the vet's handling. The vet was surprised, she seems to be used to less socialised hedgehogs, but I was also surprised because she never loved being touched, though yeah I'm not surprised she was more interested in walking around the new place than froze up in a ball.

I have to give her two doses a day. So this morning I gave her the 6th dose. At this point Quinn is still very active, showing absolutely no sign of being sick. For a while I though she might have not been drinking enough, possibly because peeing hurt. She was going often in small amounts. But since yesterday it looks like she's drinking more. And peeing in larger amounts. Which would be a great sign if it wasn't that the pee is completely mixed with blood now. Great big bright red stains on the litter towels. It's also the first morning I see blood on her, in her privates area. But then I suppose since she moved the towel and peed directly on the box, she probably sat on it.

I sort of want to think that if the blood is mixed with the pee it'd be a sign that the blood is really coming from the urinary track. Also because I have never seen any traces of blood outside her litter. I have fleece lining in her cage. If her issues were uterine, wouldn't she be bleeding all the time, not just when relieving herself? Wouldn't I find some drops of blood in her sleeping area, in the spot where she sits when eating?

If she was younger I think I'd have gone ahead with the hyserectomy right now, in the mindset that if it wasn't the current problem, taking it all out would just take an eventual problem away.

But she's 4. I'm not sure I should go through with it.

It isn't even a money issue, though it will be expensive (around 450$ if we go with it without doing an echo first, then it'd be 760$ total. On top of the hundred it cost me for the checkup and the antibiotics). I do have that kind of money saved and it wouldn't put me in trouble to spend it. My boyfriend even offered to pay for half when he though that was the problem.

I have no idea how long she has left. I don't want to get my hedgehog through a big surgery only to have her die from it, or of something else in a few months. I know it says everywhere that hedgehogs live about 3-6 years, sometimes even up to 9. But I don't think I've ever heard anyone ever talk about an hedgehog that was older than 3. So I'm wondering if I'd just be struggling to keep a pet alive that's is already past her time.

I had prepared myself for this. Telling myself that when she'd get sick it'd be over, and it'd be okay, because she had a long life. But now that I actually have to deal with it, I feel like I'm doomed whatever I decide. She doesn't look sick. The vet told me she was in great health. How can I pull the plug on that?

I'm going to call the vet later on, hopefully she's in on saturdays or someone else in there knows enough about hedgehogs. I want to know if how stuff has progressed is an indication than the bleeding is really from a UTI (can it look worse before it clears, when the hedgehog seems to be peeing more? Is it possible she needs something stronger?), or that she really has a uterine infection and I need to decide between surgery or euthanasia. I don't think we can afford to go through the entire 2 weeks of antibiotics if the problem isn't a UTI...

I was just hoping to get opinions from people who migth have seen what it looked like when a girl hog had any of the two conditions. And get her opinion on surgery or death when her age is taken into account. I know we'd all love our pets and want to keep them forever but I need to make a decision that isn't just emotionnal.


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## FiaSpice

Hazesti said:


> But I don't think I've ever heard anyone ever talk about an hedgehog that was older than 3.


*raises hand*
Litchi lived for 6 1/2 years and Tangelo was about 5 

If I'm not wrong, the urinary track and the uterine track mixes so that's why it's hard to know where blood come from unless they go with the needle in the bladder. Have they checked that, it would confirm the source of blood. If it's indeed from the uterus and the vet says she has a good pronogstic, I'd go ahead with the hysterectomy, that's what I would have done with Litchi.

Bonne chance!


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## Hazesti

Merci. It's good to know that it is indeed possible that she'll live past this age.

Discussing it with my boyfriend it seems like I have to try what I can to keep her alive no matter the costs or I'll hate myself for it. The main reason for this is that it doesn't look like her life quality has decreased at all, so it doesn't look like it's her time. I'm still wondering why there isn't blood outside the litter if she has a uterus infection. But it's not like it'd be a bad thing to remove it if it wasn't the source of the problem?

Called the vet office and could only talk to a technician. There isn't an exotic pet vet in for the weekend so there's not much I can get right now. She took note of everything I told her and put it in the file, and the vet should call me when she gets in monday night, to see if I should operate and if so, if she can squeeze her in for tuesday.

She tells me that as long as she's eating and drinking and acting normal I shouldn't get too alarmed about the blood. She can't tell me if she should have stopped bleeding by now if it was a UTI.

I'm going to have to give her a bath tonight because she smeared blood all over herself, and change the linings in her cage so that I can monitor for blood better. She seems to have tracked some blood out of the litter this morning. I don't like moving her around like that (and she really hates baths) but I pretty much have to do it if I want to keep an eye out for any change. I'll go with water only, no soap, because I don't want to risk worsening an infection...


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## Nancy

I had a girl this spring that developed blood in the urine. Off we went to the vet to have a fine needle urine draw to see if the blood was in her urine. Little stinker pee'd on the way there and had no blood to draw. Based on the fact that she was loosing her appetite and peeing in bed, we gambled and assumed it was a UTI. I've had ones with uterine tumours and they never lost their appetite nor pee'd in bed. She was put on antibiotics and almost immediately her appetite returned and the blood went away and she quit peeing in bed. We thought all was well. WRONG! Two weeks later back came the blood, on a Friday of course. We got more antibiotic with the plan to take her to the vet on Monday. She didn't make it till Monday. Necropsy showed she had a uterine infection and she went septic. Had a urine draw been able to be done, we would have known it wasn't urinary and could have had her spayed. In hindsight, I should have taken her back the next day and tried for another needle draw, but we gambled on it being a UTI and we lost.  

There is also urinary stones to consider. Perhaps having a fine needle urine draw would be a good idea. Then you would know if it is urinary or uterine. Otherwise, without it, or an ultrasound, there is no way to know for sure where the blood is coming from. If she is a healthy active 4 year old, then it is worth giving her the chance and spaying her. It would be different if she were showing age related issues. 

This is only my own observations based on gals here, but if she is smearing dark red blood over herself, there is more chance that this is uterine. The blood when mixed with urine, doesn't seem to show up as dark or thick when they get it on themselves. 

Good luck.


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## Hazesti

Came back home and she put some fresh blood in the litter. She also made two poopies, which answers the question of did she eat last night... They are dark and goopy. I'd seen it go green before and I though it might just be a reaction to the antibiotics, but that is probably a sign that she isn't getting better.

She's still pretty lively. I'm going to hope that the fact she hasn't showed signs of shutting down yet means there's still time. Let's hope it stays that way until tuesday, and I really hope the vet will take her in.


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## Hazesti

I gave her her dose this evening and then put her back in her cage. She kept falling over to her side, like her front right leg wasn't supporting her.

It's the second time I see her like that, it happenned a few weeks ago, before this problem started. It looks like she's been sleeping in a different position that usual lately (she usually slept curled up, now she lies down on her stomach, not completely sprawled but with her head in front of her instead of under), either because it's hot these days or because she's uncomfortable due to the infection... I had assumed her leg had fallen asleep because she had slept on it or something the first time, but now that I know she's sick I'm worried about this.

Both times I picked her up when I saw her struggling (wasn't gonna let her keep panicing and falling on her side), put her on her back on my knees and let her do the wiggle dance for a while, then checked how she stood before putting her back. She walked normally after that both times.

Have you ever seen this happen with hedgies? Can an infection cause a sort of temporary paralysis? Or is there a good chance it really is just that her leg fell asleep?


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## FiaSpice

Hazesti said:


> I gave her her dose this evening and then put her back in her cage. She kept falling over to her side, like her front right leg wasn't supporting her.
> 
> It's the second time I see her like that, it happenned a few weeks ago, before this problem started. It looks like she's been sleeping in a different position that usual lately (she usually slept curled up, now she lies down on her stomach, not completely sprawled but with her head in front of her instead of under), either because it's hot these days or because she's uncomfortable due to the infection... I had assumed her leg had fallen asleep because she had slept on it or something the first time, but now that I know she's sick I'm worried about this.
> 
> Both times I picked her up when I saw her struggling (wasn't gonna let her keep panicing and falling on her side), put her on her back on my knees and let her do the wiggle dance for a while, then checked how she stood before putting her back. She walked normally after that both times.
> 
> Have you ever seen this happen with hedgies? Can an infection cause a sort of temporary paralysis? Or is there a good chance it really is just that her leg fell asleep?


I don't want to discourage you. But Litchi was like that, but it got worst so fast. He paralisys was due to a stroke. Here's how she looked the day I found he suddenly had trouble walking.






I really hope it's something else Quinn has and that she can recover from (as you can guess I had to put Litchi to sleep)

Fingers crossed for you both.


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## Hazesti

Oh God. 

She wasn't as bad as that, she just tripped a couple of times and fell on her side but she didn't have as much trouble getting back on her feet, it's just the one foot that couldn't support her. And she got back to normal after I took her off her feet for a bit. When I made her wiggle on her back all of her legs were moving around. After watching your video I went and moved her from her hiding place just to see her walk around and she's walking normally. Then she went to roll around in her litter box (it's a weird habit she's always had, even though I use towels and not litter in the box) before going back in hiding.

I'm really sorry about Litchi. Broke my heart to see her and to hear you in the video  When she got like that, did she recover her mobility or did she stay that way until you put her to sleep?

Anyway I'll be talking to the vet about everything that's happenned since her last visit, tomorow evening. Hopefully she can get fixed on tuesday. I want her to keep strong until then so she has every chance though... If the vet thinks she's had a stroke or that she's started to shut down I don't think I'll be putting her through the operation...


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## Hazesti

Mmm. After I washed her and cleaned her cage saturday night, Quinn pooped in the water and then peed a little in her litter (pink with blood, not as much blood as that morning).

Then for nearly 36 hours she didn't go to the bathroom at all. I was starting to really worry about that. She had been eating and drinking, if not as much as usual.

I gave her her meds this morning (I give her two meal worms with each dose, one before to make her drop her defenses, one after as a reward), she then decided to go sit in the litter... And dropped me two poopies and a very healthy looking pee. No hint of blood at all.

I'm not sure what to think. She did loose a few drops of blood where she sleeps since I cleaned the cage, so I'm even more leaning towards uterine infection, and I don't think she's out of the woods. I'll be talking to her vet tonight. But I can't help but feel better seeing clear pee after a few days of really bloody pees.


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## FiaSpice

Hazesti said:


> Oh God.
> 
> She wasn't as bad as that, she just tripped a couple of times and fell on her side but she didn't have as much trouble getting back on her feet, it's just the one foot that couldn't support her. And she got back to normal after I took her off her feet for a bit. When I made her wiggle on her back all of her legs were moving around. After watching your video I went and moved her from her hiding place just to see her walk around and she's walking normally. Then she went to roll around in her litter box (it's a weird habit she's always had, even though I use towels and not litter in the box) before going back in hiding.
> 
> I'm really sorry about Litchi. Broke my heart to see her and to hear you in the video  When she got like that, did she recover her mobility or did she stay that way until you put her to sleep?
> 
> Anyway I'll be talking to the vet about everything that's happenned since her last visit, tomorow evening. Hopefully she can get fixed on tuesday. I want her to keep strong until then so she has every chance though... If the vet thinks she's had a stroke or that she's started to shut down I don't think I'll be putting her through the operation...


That video was taken on June 16th and we put her to sleep on the 22nd. She didn't get better, only worst and fast, she also had seizures which seemed painfull. I was devastated because she just got a clean bill of health a month before at the vet and compliments on how she was doing good for and older one.

If Quinn's leg is back to normal, I think it's a good sign. Let us know how it goes tomorow


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## Nancy

It could be the illness that is causing her mobility issues. When they are sick they can get wobbly and unsteady on their feet. Also, it could be coincidence that some other issue has started at the same time. 

If you do go ahead with the spay, when your vet opens her up, he can do a look around and see if there any obvious tumours or something going on other than in her uterus. A couple of times with ours going into the surgery we had it that if once opened up things look really bad, to let her/him pass and not continue with the surgery. 

Uterine infections rarely clear up with antibiotics and do require a spay. They can be either open, or closed. Open we see the bleeding. Closed we don't so the infection continues to build while we have that false sense that it has been cured. That is probably what happened with my Brie. We thought she was getting better because she stopped bleeding. 

Sending well wishes and prayers to her and you.


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## Hazesti

I think I'm going to go ahead with the operation even if suddenly she isn't bleeding, because the blood looked really, really scary on saturday and I'm really not convinced she's better just because she hasn't bled for a day. And with what you tell me, yeah maybe the infection 'closed' and now she's not bleeding anymore. 

And I figure that if she opens her up and sees nothing and that it only was a real bad UTI or that the antibiotics managed to clear the infection of something, it's not like it'll be a bad thing to spay her anyway. It might buy her a couple of years.

Although yes, I'll tell her to let her go if it looks really really bad. Since her behavior hasn't changed that much since she started being sick (she might eat, drink and run a little less than usual, but she's far from being lethargic either), I think her chances are good...


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## Hazesti

She's getting fixed today. Apparently she lost 12 grams since her visit last wednesday. I guess she hasn't been eating as much as usual, I hope it's not too much of a bad sign.

Other than that, she still hadn't bled since Saturday and I heard her wheeling when I woke up through the night, so I really want to believe she'll make it though...


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## Nancy

Sending lots of good wishes for her that she will have an easy surgery and fast recovery.


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## Hazesti

It looks like she's going to be fine. She had a hard mass in her uterus, so it was most likely a tumor. Everything else looked fine.

The vet also removed a sort of polyp in her mouth that she had noticed during the exam. It isn't something that was worrying her, but as she was asleep she removed it, in case it bothered her while eating.

Quinn woke up soon after the operation, and was almost immediately running around her cage. They're keeping her overnight to make sure she's eating and everything, but it's looking good.

The vet is asking if I want the mass analysed. I don't think I'm going to. It'd be an extra 140$, and all it could tell me really is if there's lots of chances she'll have more cancer. It's not like she can do chemo. And really, she is going to get sick again and die eventually, I can't do anything to prevent that. Does that make sense?

Thanks everyone for your advice and support.


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## Nancy

That's wonderful news.  

I don't often have the tumours sent for pathology. In most cases, it won't change the outcome as there's nothing that can be done. You could start her on IP6 which is an immunity booster and cancer fighter. I am certain it helped my Peaches after her aggressive mammary tumour was removed. Her prognoses was poor but she lived over 3 years afterward.


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## Hazesti

What is IP6? I am due to buy food so I was thinking of reevaluating her diet.


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## Nancy

It's capsules that you can get in a natural vitamins store. A normal grocery store probably would not have it. IP6 with Inostol. Break open the capsule and sprinkle a pinch on her food nightly.


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## Hazesti

I'll look for it! I suppose there's not any cat food that already have it? 

And should I look into senior cat formulas? Stuff with omega-3 for joints? I will try to ask the vet tomorow when I get her.

Right now my only focus was real meat as the first ingredient, high protein low fat. I was going with Pro-plan.


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## FiaSpice

I'm glad to hear she's doing better after the spay.



 Hazesti said:


> I'll look for it! I suppose there's not any cat food that already have it?
> 
> And should I look into senior cat formulas? Stuff with omega-3 for joints? I will try to ask the vet tomorow when I get her.
> 
> Right now my only focus was real meat as the first ingredient, high protein low fat. I was going with Pro-plan.


Pro-Plan isn't the best food. I used to feed Innova, Chicken Soup light and Wellness and Royal Canin senior indoor.


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## Hazesti

I guess I'll go compare the ingredients on brands. My problems is I can't seem to find any of the brands listed in the food PDF around here. I don't have a lot of choices of pet food and accessories stores that aren't a pet shop. I usually bought my stuff at Mondou, and they don't have Chicken Soup or Innova, I was thinking maybe they only sold those in the US.. They do have Royal Canin though, so I'll compare the ingredients and nutritionnal info on them vs Pro Plan. I'll look into senior indoor. I still have a bit of her food left, so I guess I'll mix them up to ease the transition, but I never had any troubles switching food yet. Her only pickyness is that she will never eat anything that isn't meat based. Never got her to take any veggies or fruit, so the only treat I can get her are mealworms 

So I think a possible feeding plan would be something like Royal Canin Senior indoor (if I can't find anything better, it looks kinda high on fat, is 13% too much?), with a topping of IP6. I dunno how big the capsules are, you said a pinch, I suppose a capsule lasts a few day?


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## FiaSpice

My Mondoux sells Wellness, I don't know if the other do too. I got my Chicken Soup and Innova from small stores. Check their website, they have sevral point of sales in Quebec. If you where closer to Montreal/North-Shore I would gladly given you my barely touched Wellness bag no one wants


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## Hazesti

I would gladly take it off your hands, but the only times I'm around Montréal it's on the south shore, downtown or on the west island, and I'm not planning to go in the near future.

I hadn't noticed wellness in Mondou's site, but there it is! Chicken Soup doesn't have a seller closer than Trois-Rivières though. And I found a product that sounds very natural that isn't mentionned anywhere, that's sold near my place.

I think I'm gonna move on to the Diet forum to further discuss my options.


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## Hazesti

She's home now. She keeps making rounds around her cage in case she just missed the wheel the other times she went looking for it.

She's done what I call rage eating already, when she's bothered she goes straight for her food. She drank too. Outside of the kind of weird walk (Either she's loopy from the pain meds or the stitches are bothering her) she's looking quite well!

I caught her trying to climb over her tube joint tunnel, she never did that before. I think she was trying to get behind it (you never know maybe the wheel was there), so I had to take that out too!

Someone's gonna be grumpy for a while.

I just hope she doesn't touch her stitches :S


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## Immortalia

Awww but glad she's home!!

You'll probably have to find new ways to keep her entertained. One easy way is to hide her kibble around the cage. Under various toys, random objects. I've used cut up egg cartons before as well as those plastic kinder surprise eggs to cover some kibble as a hiding spot. Might even want to think about buying a cat kong toy where you can out kibble or a dab of wet food inside to keep her occupied. 

Others may have more ways to distract. From what I remember from reading, They dont really bother their stitches. Usually only if the pain meds were lacking.


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## Tym4myself

I'm glad your baby is home! I hope she continues to improve. Poor thing just wants to runnn!


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## Hazesti

I'll try doing that sort of stuff for the kibble, but Quinn is the kind of hog that doesn't jump down and scarf down her food when served, she'll eat it bit by bit through the night. She's used to having food in her cage she's not touching. However when I put some fresh food in it does catch her interest, so hidding a few kibbles might spark her curiosity. 

I'd try making her hunt for mealworms, but right now I use them as a reward after taking her meds to try and ease the experience.

She never was much into toys either (except the cardboard tubes, but I think I should avoid those since she could hit her stitches with it). Right now he cage is a little sad without the tube and wheel, it's only her blankets, food and litter. And a tiny teddy I put in there to cheer up up but she's not really interested in it 

She's supposed to rest, anyway. 

This morning she really, reallly put up a fight when I gave her her meds. I think it's a good sign that she's more resistant. She was before the operation too, but I guess she might have been a little weaker because she didn't push against my fingers with her paws that hard!

She's on rest for 14 days, so I can't give her back her wheel until then. She has 5 days of painkillers to take (so I have 3 days left), and I have to finish the 2 weeks of antibiotics I started last wednesday. I'm told that if she looks uncomfortable after I'm out of painkillers to call back for more. I suppose if I see her touch her belly more by then it'd be a sign that she's still hurting...

RIght now she's walking a little funny, but she's not wobbly. I think either the painkillers are making her a little loopy, or the stitches are bothering her walk a bit. I suppose it'll clear out soon. I've seen her scratch her sides and face a lot (but never excessively). Probably because the stitches are pulling at her skin and hitching a bit, judging from my own experience with stitches on my hand. But she isn't scratching directly at the wound. The wound looks great, no redness or anything.


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## Immortalia

You can try buying some crickets and freeze them in the freezer. Then it's something different from mealworms and they're not as fatty either. 

Glad she's being more of her feisty self  it usually takes 24hrs for the anesthesia to be completely out of their system, which is probably why she's fighting more now.


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## Hazesti

Woof, she did quite a stinky, soft poop today. The vet told me she force fed her yesterday morning as she hadn't eaten all night, so I suppose that's the reason her poop isn't solid and smells different. I'll give her time to digest her usual food and I hope she'll give me nice poopies


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## Lilysmommy

If she's getting antibiotics, that may be a cause of the poop as well - they tend to cause green & pretty smelly poops because they kill the good bacteria in the GI tract in addition to bad bacteria. You can help her tummy out by getting acidophilus from a pharmacy or store with a pharmacy section. You can put the powder on a little piece of meat or in some baby food, whatever her favorite treat is, and give it to her. Just make sure you don't give it at the same time as the antibiotics or they'll kill off the good bacteria in the acidophilus too and it'll be useless.


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## Hazesti

She put up an even harder fight this morning for her meds. She'd struggle a lot, but now she even makes a squeaky noise, like she's crying or complaining, and she's more huffy and shaky as usual. I hope it's just that she's tired of being bothered so much and is just getting angry at being woken up to get stuff shoved in her mouth, but now I'm starting to get afraid I'm hurting her, or that she's in pain so she's even more afraid of being handled.

Of course she gets one dose of painkillers in the morning to last her through the day, so I suppose she might be more uncomfortable in the morning as the last dose is wearing off.

She's not screaming at me either, not opening her mouth to make a sound, she just squeaks. I'm not sure how to interpret it, I'd think that she'd be used to the process by now but she's only making a drama about it now, while it was easier before the operation...

The wound is still looking very nice, no redness, and she doesn't seem to have touched the stitches. Her appetite hasn't fully come back yet, she only eats a few kibbles a night (plus 4 mealies, two for each antibiotic sessions), and she seems to be drinking a little bit more than before the operation.


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## Nancy

What are you mixing her meds with? Perhaps using something else would be better. Possibly she is getting a taste of the meds and metacam in particular is horrid tasting. Are you syringe feeding her? If not, she needs to be until her appetite is back. You can mix her meds in with the food you are syringing. If you haven't syringed yet, let her get a taste for the food then you can sneak the meds into a small amount of the food and syringe her it first. 

I wouldn't worry too much about her still being unsteady. Abdominal surgery is painful and takes a while to heal and not hurt so much. Any movement she has to make with her abdominal muscles is going to hurt her like crazy. Talk to her and tell her the meds will make her feel better and struggling will make her hurt. I know it sounds strange but sometimes telling them helps. 

Poor girl but you are doing great with her. It's going to take a while for her to be back to normal.


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## Hazesti

I haven't syringe fed her because she does eat, just not as much as usual. I figured I'd save her a bit of the trauma since she really seems to hate the whole syringe process (can't really blame her)... The antinflamatories came already in siringues so I can't mix them up, though I guess I could top them with something tasty. What do you suggest, I just wet and grind a kibble and suck it up on top of the meds? I'm trying to think of something that'd feel even more like a treat than her regular food, but mealworms are the only thing I managed to get her interested in, she doesn't care for fruit.

She seemed to like the taste of the antibiotics I started giving her before the operation, but I guess tastin the painkillers might have made something click in her head that nothing good would come out of those things.

I'm gonna try wetting down her food tonight, see if that makes her eat more. if not maybe I'll syringe some of it and leave her the rest to eat on her own.

She only has 5 days worth of pain killers (so I'll give her her last dose sunday), I'm sort of worried she'll still be in pain after that, should I go ahead and ask for more, or is that a good amount of time to try going off the meds? The vet's office is pretty far away, but I guess I could ask her to call a vet's nearby so I can buy them there.

EDIT: Another question.. I've been giving her her pain meds at 5:30 am becuase that's when I get up for work, but the two last dose are over the weekend. If she gets her next dose a few hours later, will it put her in pain? I -suppose- the meds aren't made to suddenly stop working at 24 hours, but you know.


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## Nancy

Most hedgehogs like Hills A/D which is a syringe feeding food sold at the vet. Normal canned food is too chunky to go through a syringe and needs to be strained to use with a syringe. Most hedgehogs also like puppy milk or goats milk. You can buy it at the vet in single serving sizes. It's a powder and for puppies you top it up with water but for hedgehogs, you can mix up a small single serving amount. It needs to be mixed fresh each serving so the powder works out great. Some people have had good luck with human Boost or Ensure (not chocolate). Sometimes when the syringe has something yummy they are far less resistant. 

If she is resistant to the syringe for her meds, you can inject it into the mealies. Although they sometimes figure this out, usually you can get a few doses before they resist. 

If you give her a smorgasbord of food you may find she eats more. Try her normal kibble dry, normal kibble dampened and a wet cat food or other food you think she might like. 

Pain meds do wear off the longer away from the dose so she may be uncomfortable if it's given a few hours later but if she is sleeping at that time, she might be okay. Unless you are up and seeing how she is, you won't know and getting up to see kind of defeats the purpose of trying to sleep in. :lol:


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## Hazesti

I came home from work and it looks like she ate through the day, she ate more than half of a normal daily portion throughout the night and day 

I figured I'd try splitting her kibbles in two for tonight, and wet down half of it in a different bowl, to see if she prefers one or the other. As I wet down the kibbles I picked up what I'll call kibble juice, the water that was getting muddy with kibble powder, with her antibiotics syringe and let the stuff mix up in there.

It seems to have caught her interest! She struggled much less tonight! Lets hope it also works with the nasty painkillers


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## Hazesti

Ahaha came back from the movies and she ate the entire dry portion and didn't touch the wet bit. I guess I'll stick to dry


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## Hazesti

Yup, she ate a full meal of dry food last night. 

I mixed her meds with kibble juice this morning. She still made a huge dramatic fuss about the meds and we had to be very patient with her (she wiggles around so much we could poke her in the eye with the syringe if we're not careful), but she didn't look as... panicked as yesterday. Just annoyed. I really think its the painkillers she hates, since it was much easier to make her take the antibiotics, once we got the syringe in her mouth she took it all in and didn't try to move her face away.

Her poop has more consistency than the first poop she made when she came back (that one looked like some very stinky chocolate ice cream). Now it's holding it's shape, though it's a little goo-y and still has that disgusting smell that's probably from the meds. No green!

Her cage looks so sad without the wheel and tunnel. I filled it with little teddy bears, but she's not really into toys. Still, it makes something interesting to meet when she walks aruond the cage, and I put pieces of kibble under them. She ate one of those so I guess she does check them out during the night


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## Hazesti

Oh my. I think Quinn got pee all over her face  She tends to dig under her towels and do her business right on the plastic of the litter pan, and I guess maybe she was startled by a noise since she went to do it while my boyfriend was at his computer, and she probably ducked in there. Her face is all yellow 

I've never sen this happen, and I'm not sure what to do about it, I don't think I should give her a bath so soon after the operation. The stitches haven't started to melt yet...


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## Nancy

I'm glad she is recovering well.  

What about using a damp cloth to wipe her face off. I don't think she could have a bath until it's been at least a week.


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## Hazesti

I'm not sure I want to dare giving her a bath until her stitches have completely disapeared, is that too prudent? It's been over a week now, and she's doing fine, except that she's a little dirty and her skin is dry, she's scratching often. I wish I could give her a soak in a bath with oil but I don't want to risk any infection?

Vet also ordered her on rest for 14 days, then I can give her her wheel back. Does that sound right to other people who had their hedgies operated? Again maybe I should wait until the stitches have fallen off?


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## Hazesti

Giving this a bump cause I'd like opinions on the previous post 

Quinn has been throwing what I call temper tantrums in her cage the last few days. I've been slowly introducing the new food I picked for her (because I'm running out of the old one), I don't think it's because she doesn't like it, because she's been eating it (though she seems to favor the old one so far).

She will move everything in her cage. Pull out her liner (they are velcroed to the bottom of the cage), take the towel out of her litter, push everything around, making a mess of her cage. I think it might be restlessness. The 14 days will be up next wednesday so I should be able to giver her her wheel back. The only problem with her behavior is that she keeps shoving things in her waterbowl so the water gets absorbed. So far she's been doing it before I'd go to bed so I was able to just give her fresh water, but if she keeps at it I might have to put her bottle in instead of the bowl :/ I've seen her do that before, for no reason I could figure out, this time though I could pin it on boredom since she's got all of her energy back and no wheel to spend it on.


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## FiaSpice

She reminds me of Litchi when I took off her wheel because she was sick. When she got a bit better, she showed me she wanted her wheel back by moving her liners in her waterbowl and flip her food bowl. I guess it mean she's getting better. Does she likes cat balls? This could entertain her until she gets her wheel back.


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## Hazesti

Never been much into toys. I put a few little teddies in there, but pulling the entire liner in the middle of the cage is obviously more fun!


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## Hazesti

So, 7 months later, Quinn is gone.

She started losing mobility over the weekend. At first I though she might have some arthritis as she was sort of woobly, but then it got worse fast and she kept tripping over. Tuesday night I looked at her try to go eat and she was pretty much only using one of her front legs to drag herself around (Not unlike FiaSpice's Litchi in the video she posted earlier). She was still eating normally, and even managing to do all of her business in her litter, she amazed me in how she still managed to get herself around her cage. 

But I didn't see the point in waiting for her to start shutting down, or getting to the point where I'd have to take care of everything for her, for a pet that doesn't like being handled it felt like a disservitude. So I went to the vet yesterday with in mind that unless the vet told me there was a good chance it was something simple and curable, it would be over.

The vet told me her back legs were paralysed and it was reaching over one of her front legs. She figured it was either Woobly (I think it's unlikely if it happenned so suddenly and so late in her life?), a spinal injury (don't see how it could have happenned), a stroke or a tumor pressing on her spine. So I ended it before she could get miserable.

She would have been 5 in two months. I'm a little bummed she didn't reach that number.

It hurts but I'm still glad she lived so long. She was a champ and I don't regret putting the money into fixing her last summer because she clearly wasn't done. But this time she was. And I got Alfred in the meantime, so it's a little easier knowing I got another little guy to focus on.


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## momIImany

I am so sorry for your loss. Quinn had almost 5 wonderful years with you. That's a good thing. May she wheel her way through heaven.


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## MomLady

I am so sorry to hear this, hugs to you for being a great hedgie mom to her.

Remember the good. 
Quinn was a feisty one and to let her lose that would have been a disservice. You did the right thing.

Take care!

HUGS
ML


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## alexvdl

I read this whole thread, hoping against hope that it'd have a happy ending, knowing the likely outcome. I think that the five months you got out of it, will be something you can always treasure, and that those five months are a wonderful gift to the both of you. 

I'm sorry for your loss.


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## Hazesti

There's always a sad ending, isn't it? No one can live forever.

As far as I know, this is as happy an ending as I can hope for. 7 months is a long time in an hedgehog's lifespan, so I feel the operation wasn't a waste at all.

And when I feel like I was too quick to 'get rid of her' when she lost mobility, that I could have kept her comfortable until she couldn't get around on her own? I remind myself that 1: I had no way of knowing if she was in pain, despite her not looking like it as she soldiered on, and 2: reading other stories, she could have ended up going into convulsions and other nasty stuff that would have made me feel like the worse pet owner ever. I think I did her a favor in not taking too long to gather the courage to make the call and bring her to the vet before she started getting really miserable. Letting her carry on like that would have been selfish, and would have ended up hurting both of us more in the end.

I'm donating her cage to someone at work and it will either go to a rescue, or to a zootherapy pet. This is as close to an organ donor as Quinn can get, ah!


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