# For those of you who feed pinkies...



## shaelikestaquitos

This is not a post to criticize you, but to inform you of how pinkies are killed at a large chain pet store in the US. PETA recently posted a video of a local Petland and how they kill their pinkies.

GRAPHIC WARNING!






Ughhh, people make me sick...


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## susanaproenca

And how else should they be killed? I dont get it. 

PETA is completely against killing any animal, doesn't matter it for feeder, research on cancer drugs (guess no one there ever needed cancer drugs huh) or whatever. I personally think it's ridiculous. If I'd consider the video, so I guess I should feed my hedgies a vegan diet -- what about the poor mealworms, and the chickens that died to make kibble? How were they killed? How inhumane of me! 

It's just my opinion... And yeah, I completely dislike PETA. I think they're a bunch of terrorists, using intimidation to get to their points.


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## elise5211

Let's not get into a PETA debate. It can get nasty.

Anywho, thanks for the heads up. I just got a small pack of pinkies from Petsmart, and I just assumed that they gave the animals gas to kill them, and then freeze them. If my hedgehog likes the pinkies I got it, I will definitely find a reputable seller that kills pinkies humanely.


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## susanaproenca

I don't think using gas to kill them is any better than freezing them. Years ago while in college I worked at a lab and sometimes we would kill the mice using gas, and they don't die instantly. They suffocate.


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## shaelikestaquitos

CO2 is considered more humane by most people, mainly because it is a less "painful" way of killing them.

Also, I am not a 100% supporter of PETA either, but the fact that the employee admitted that sometimes they put them in a bag and smash the bag around until they die... I'm sorry, but that's not so humane.

EDIT:

Also, my post was not to spark a PETA debate, so I don't think people should really be discussing their opinions on the organization.

My point was to educate those who may feel as though this is an inhumane way of supplying pinkies.

I'm not sure if this was directed at me either, but I certainly don't believe hedgehogs should be on a vegan diet :lol: I realize that it is a natural part of these animals that they need to eat meat, etc. but because we have forced these animals into a position where they are living an unnatural way of life, I feel that taking responsibility of how we're giving their food, how these animals are treated before they are made food, etc is equally as important.


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## susanaproenca

I killed many mice at the lab holding them by the tail and hitting their head at the counter. It's a instant death. 

I agree that food should have the best quality possible, don't even get me started on it.  But I honestly dont see freezing pinkies as something bad. I guess I'm a horrible heartless person! :twisted:


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## shaelikestaquitos

susanaproenca said:


> I killed many mice at the lab holding them by the tail and hitting their head at the counter. It's a instant death.
> 
> I agree that food should have the best quality possible, don't even get me started on it.  But I honestly dont see freezing pinkies as something bad. I guess I'm a horrible heartless person! :twisted:


I'm pretty sure you're more trained than these Petland workers. I wouldn't be surprised if there are cases where they don't do it properly and the animals are suffering instead of having instant death.

I get squeamish even thinking about feeding pinkies! I don't think you are a heartless person; you clearly care very much about your hedgies and seem very passionate about the welfare and treatment of animals.

But when I imagine myself being put in the same situation, I would certainly choose being gassed with CO2 than freezing to death. That's how I reason whether it is more/less humane.


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## CanadienHedgie

The petland that I use to work at didn't put them in the freeze alive. They'd put the pinkies in clear, airtight containers and leave them there way longer then necessary. They'd suffocate, then be frozen.

EDIT:

I only feed live pinkies. Petland is only about a 2 minute drive from my house. Petsmart and Petcetera are about 20 minutes from my house, so I just pick up a weekly supply.


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## greenbeansrabbitry

For the ones I kill here, be it rat or mouse, I use CO2. I can't stand the thought of feeding live (except insects). I know some that do the spine separation thing(I can't remember what it's called), I wouldn't be able to do this unless absolutely necessary. I have had to do this with rabbits in the past. As for freezing, in the past with baby rabbits I was always told to either put them in the freezer or bash them on the head. I have frozen them before because I could not handle bashing them on the head. (I didn't do this for fun or anything like that, it was because they were dying from injuries inflicted by the moms.) I always feel awful when having to kill any animal but the only reasons I ever would is for food or to end its suffering. In the video the only thing that bothered me bad was employee 3.

I'm sorry if this makes anyone upset with me or makes anyone hate me, but that's just my views on it.


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## cylaura

Current lab tech here, although I work with rats, not mice. I think most people would be surprised at how many rules and regulations there are regarding animal care in a laboratory setting. Euthanasia, at least where I work, is very strictly monitored. None of the people I know who work with mice would ever be allowed to just hit their heads on the counter (not attacking you at all, susanaproenca, I'm sure you did what was right). Personally, I don't like using CO2 when I have to euthanize, it makes me uncomfortable. I don't think it's a very pretty, or very humane, death. Freezing is probably the most humane option if you need to kill something and have it still be edible for another animal. 

All that being said, I don't think I could ever feed pinkies, alive or dead. It just crosses a line of what I feel comfortable doing. I try to give my hedgie the best diet possible, and have ignored my own squeamishness about insects every single day in order to get him what he needs, nutrient-wise. :lol: I tend to think he gets a good, varied diet without the pinkies, but maybe someday I'll change my mind. 

I still think it's good to care a LOT about where your food comes from, whether it's for you or your pets. And, if you're a human, to obtain that food in the most humane way possible. That's pretty much the best we can do. 

EDIT: greenbeans, that's called a cervical dislocation. For us, we can use it on mice but they have to be anesthetized first. Another reason why I am so glad we work with rats because the idea really bothers me.


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## pooka dotted

I try and give my hedgies the most varied diet I possibly can. I was also a vegetarian for 5 years. and a vegan for 3. Now I am a meat eater but only in small quantities.

My person opinion on PETA: 

Peta is an organization that uses rare cases of animal cruelty to provide the scare tactic necessary to make people think differently. Not all killing for consumption is as terrible as depicted in those films. They think very drastically, to the point where they think having a pet in a cage is terrible. And their cats and dogs are called "Companion animals." They are one sided thinkers always, and never give room for any meat eaters to explain why what they are doing is okay. Just like myself.

I worked at a farm for many years, and we killed humanely and sent the meat to the local butchers, who bought some of it and sold it to the general public. It was organic, grass fed beef. Eating meat is not a crime because it is part of a natural life cycle. Some people; however, eat too much and it becomes a problem. You are only supposed to eat a piece of red meat that is as big as your palm, and one inch thick. Anything more than that and it will rot in your gut and the nutrition won't get used. 

Basically what I am trying to say is, letting baby mice suffocate in a container is inhumane. But freezing them in my humble opinion is a reasonable way to kill them. I say this because freezing to death is a lot like falling asleep but losing feeling in your limbs. It's waking up from almost falling asleep that is said to be extremely painful. So from my knowledge and my understanding, I wouldn't feel bad about feeding pinkies to my hedgies because they are a good source of protein and will vary my hedgehogs diet even further. Which is what I want to let them lead a healthy lifestyle. Many european hedgehogs eat pinkies when they can find them, eggs, probably baby birds, anything that could fit in their mouth really. And our hedgehogs being their distant cousins I believe that hedgehogs are scavengers, and will do my best to accommodate a diet that incorporates as many of these possible food sources as i can. 

 Just my opinion


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## susanaproenca

The lab I worked at was at University of Sao Paulo, Brazil, so I'm sure lots of the regulations were different. The methods we used for the months I was working there were either that or decapitation. If you think about it, to kill something no matter what it is and what purpose is for is not pretty neither it is nice. In my opinion, you just do what you gotta do. And that's coming from a former vegetarian here, who used to be completely against eating, wearing or testing in animals. 

It's a great thing everyone is entitled to their own opinion. What makes me upset is that even though I provide the best possible care for my family and my pets, some people will still think I'm a nut case because I don't care if the pinkies were frozen or suffocated or whatever, but It really doesn't bother me anymore. I'm glad my hedgies really enjoyed them. :roll:


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## Hedgieonboard

Ty Shae, I'm glad this post got started because it's very informative and shows varied opinions on the subject  When I researched prior to getting my hedgies I don't ever remember seeing any posts on the subject so I'm glad that it's out there to talk about and learn about. I know I'm not making any judgments on the people on the thread, I'm just always happy when someone provides information or topics which can be debated because I always come out of it with new information to think about.


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## susanaproenca

Hedgieonboard said:


> Ty Shae, I'm glad this post got started because it's very informative and shows varied opinions on the subject  When I researched prior to getting my hedgies I don't ever remember seeing any posts on the subject so I'm glad that it's out there to talk about and learn about. I know I'm not making any judgments on the people on the thread, I'm just always happy when someone provides information or topics which can be debated because I always come out of it with new information to think about.


I agree, I was afraid Shae would feel like she started a bad discussion, but at the end I'm glad we got to talk about it.


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## Jake

I haven't given Terra anything but her cheap and crappy(what she was eating before I got her) catfood since I got her, I'll change her over to better food when this gets low(don't want upset tummy)
I don't think I could give her a live pinkie.
If I had a snake I'd give it live food cuz thats what it wants to eat
And I think the way snakes eat is pretty neat to watch

I had to kill animals before(put injured out of misery) it ain't fun to me what ever kills the fastest is best 


I remember once way back when I was a teen a girl I knew was complaining about deer hunters killing the deer and how its so mean. She did this while eating some chicken I pointed out to her that the chicken had to die for her to eat it...hunters are just people with the balls to kill their food


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## beehivehedgie

Can I Just say....I had NO idea that hedgehogs would eat pinkies. Period. Woah. I didn't watch the video to avoid emotion. I've killed animals but I'm a firm believer in that I'm killing them for myself to eat or to put them out of their misery the fastest way possible. I'm sure if I had an animal that needed meat I would be able to feed them that. But....I had no idea people fed their hedgehogs pinkies...or that hedgehogs would hunt them and eat them alive? Woah. That just blew my mind.


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## CinderSmoke

I don't see freezing as cruel. CO2 gas would be about the same as suffocation, and thus a more traumatic way to go.
I would never feed Jeremiah pinkies. With all the chicken, fish and veggies we eat there is always some I can leave unseasoned for him.
Off topic a little..... I owned a boa once. I hated feeding her mice and rats. When she got big enough I switched her over to chicken legs and then turkey legs. Some say there is too much bone in a chicken or turkey leg for a snake........ in the wild they eat prey with much more bone, so i never understood the argument.


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## shaelikestaquitos

I guess freezing VS CO2 really comes down to what people personally believe is more humane. I hear the same thing about both methods of killing (the pros and cons).

At any rate, the video does not excuse the behavior of many of these workers here, and that's what I REALLY meant to focus on; to find out where/how your supplier gets pinkies.

The point was really just to make people aware so that they ask questions and make whichever decision they feel is correct.

I've found it very interesting to hear the opinions of everyone here 

I don't think I could still handle feeding a pinkie though >_< Bugs (and even at that, only mealworms :lol are as far as I will go! I'm just too squeamish for even the larger insects :?


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## cylaura

shaelikestaquitos said:


> The point was really just to make people aware so that they ask questions and make whichever decision they feel is correct.
> 
> I've found it very interesting to hear the opinions of everyone here


Me too! It's always nice to hear different opinions, especially when the community is as tolerant as HHC. Thanks for starting the topic! 



shaelikestaquitos said:


> I don't think I could still handle feeding a pinkie though >_< Bugs (and even at that, only mealworms :lol are as far as I will go! I'm just too squeamish for even the larger insects :?


I totally understand! It took a while for me to work up to mealworms, and then even longer for me to get to crickets. Heck, I freeze the crickets and even then I still pick them up with chopsticks because I can't handle touching them, dead or alive! :?

I don't even know HOW some people have a mealie colony. :shock:


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## pooka dotted

cylaura said:


> I totally understand! It took a while for me to work up to mealworms, and then even longer for me to get to crickets. Heck, I freeze the crickets and even then I still pick them up with chopsticks because I can't handle touching them, dead or alive! :?
> 
> I don't even know HOW some people have a mealie colony. :shock:


I had a mealie colony but had to destroy it recently. Once I would walk, I would stay away from the other kids, and put my arms on the ground and let ants crawl all over my arms. My mom says from that point onward she knew i was going to be into bugs and animals. I guess I can't understand why people are squeamish around bugs because it always came natural to me to see a HUGE bug and pick it up an d study its body and how it moved. It's just how we're programmed I guess


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## greenbeansrabbitry

cylaura said:


> EDIT: greenbeans, that's called a cervical dislocation. For us, we can use it on mice but they have to be anesthetized first. Another reason why I am so glad we work with rats because the idea really bothers me.


Thank you, I couldn't for the life of me remember. I've seen people do it and mess up so the poor animal is still alive  If you do it right, I don't have a problem with it.


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## cylaura

pooka dotted said:


> I had a mealie colony but had to destroy it recently. Once I would walk, I would stay away from the other kids, and put my arms on the ground and let ants crawl all over my arms. My mom says from that point onward she knew i was going to be into bugs and animals. I guess I can't understand why people are squeamish around bugs because it always came natural to me to see a HUGE bug and pick it up an d study its body and how it moved. It's just how we're programmed I guess


Sorry about your mealies 

You sound like my sister when she was little. She was always off collecting bugs and making little homes for all the cool ones she could find. I have very unpleasant childhood memories of her sneaking up behind me and sticking cicada shells (the skin they shed, it can hook onto anything) all over me! What a brat. :lol: I'm not nearly as squeamish about bugs as I used to be - having a hedgie has helped a lot with that, actually!


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