# Lymphoma question



## Bowsy (Nov 13, 2013)

Hi everyone,

As I explained in a previous post, my hedgehog Bowser has ultimately been diagnosed with a lymphoma located in the spleen, which was also the cause of his digestive issues. I read through many posts in the forum, and saw the one from Kalandra, who had a positive experience with chemo (prednisone) and a low-carb high-protein diet.

Bowser is now already taking prednisone for chemotherapy (syringe-administered orally), as well as tramadol (pain-killer) and sucralfate (to help with his intestinal/stomach inflammation). He is scheduled to have an IV chemo injection on Tuesday (unfortunately I can't remember what the substance is supposed to be, but I think it's some enzyme if I recall correctly. I will try to get that info from the vet tomorrow), but after having read Kalandra's experience, I am wondering why that would be necessary in addition to the prednisone.

Kalandra: if possible, I would be extremely grateful if you could share some details (or anyone else who has any info to offer) including the following:

1- For your hedgehog, was the prednisone administered orally as well?
2- What is your take on the IV chemo injection? Have you ever heard anything about this procedure?
3- Could you please provide more specifics about the low-carb high-protein diet you used? Do you have any specific food recommendations that I could use to spearhead the discussion with the vet? (for a long time, I've held the belief that carbs are one of the root causes of cancer, and I had previously attempted to switch to a completely grain-free cat food for Bowsy, but he was too stubborn in his ways. What I mean to say is that I am highly open to this diet change)

I am 100% determined to make the rest of Bowsy's life as full and peaceful as possible. Thank you so much for your help!


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## Kalandra (Aug 25, 2008)

I can probably write an entire series of books on this topic. I have dealt with a wide range of cancers and have tried lots of different things. Whether they work or not, its hard to tell.

With Maui, her lymphoma was in her throat, and caused a large swelling that was causing her difficultly in breathing and swallowing (I have a pic of her mass before we started the prednisone). We started the prednisone and her swelling went completely down. She was more/or less considered to be in remission for a while. When it did doc decreased the frequency and dosage of her prednisone. Eventually it came back and we had to modify again. We were able to manage the cancer for a long time. There are long term side effects to the prednisone at that dosage and she eventually started to have those.

You will need to work closely with your vet through this.



> 1- For your hedgehog, was the prednisone administered orally as well?


Yes. I've only had one which we used a steroid injectible for a different type of cancer (mast cell) and it was a long lasting (multiple week) drug. Prednisone didn't work for her (she anointed on it) and it was a last ditch effort to try to improve her quality of life. I wish we had experimented earlier as it worked great for her. Sadly we were too late as the cancer's side effects had already done too much damage (bleeding ulcers).



> 2- What is your take on the IV chemo injection? Have you ever heard anything about this procedure?


Could you find out which chemo drug your vet is considering? There are some that I have considered using, but we just haven't gone down that route yet. For the most part we have not considered IV chemo drugs due to the difficulty of getting them into the vein. Many of them will cause severe damage to surrounding tissue if they don't go in the vein. I'm very interested to see what your vet is considering and how he administers it.

We have considered a couple of subcutaneous ones, but have never used them as we opted for oral drugs as hospice.



> 3- Could you please provide more specifics about the low-carb high-protein diet you used? Do you have any specific food recommendations that I could use to spearhead the discussion with the vet? (for a long time, I've held the belief that carbs are one of the root causes of cancer, and I had previously attempted to switch to a completely grain-free cat food for Bowsy, but he was too stubborn in his ways. What I mean to say is that I am highly open to this diet change)


I could write a book on the various things I've tried with hedgehogs. My main gotos are below. but if you have something you are thinking about, let me know. I've probably tried it and would be happy to share what side effects I have encountered.

Carbs have been shown to feed cancer. There is a wealth of information out there about that, but specifically look up research done by Dr. Greg Ogilvie. He is a veterinary oncologist who was at Colorado State University. He conducted research and published papers showing that dietary changes to reduce carbs in many cancer patients ( lymphoma was one of them) improved the quality of life for these animals. His research also discusses a variety of supplements to give. I believe his research is what led to Hills N/D (cancer formula) food.

The other cool part of these diets is often they are high in fat and the hedgehogs are more apt to want them. Keeping a cancer patient eating is often the hardest challenge. Plus often cancer causes their metabolism change and they can use the added calories.

I've been using Evo Weight Management (Protein 50%,Fat 15%, Carb 13%) as a large portion of my cancer diet. Last time I also added in by nature grain free, and I think Solid Gold indigo moon (I cannot remember). I also try to find another lower carb diet whose primary protein is salmon for the omega fatty acids. I have also used Hills N/D, which is a canned food. There are plenty of others I would consider using that have recently come out though.

I also add supplements to my hedgehog's diet. . IP6, salmon oil (lots of omega fatty acids!), lysine and arginine are all available at health food stores and there is some evidence that they slow various types of cancer down or to boost the immune system.

Talk to your veterinarian about these.

Start out with a low amount and increase slowly. Or else you will likely encounter diarrhea and/or vomiting. I have a milligram scale that I use to dose a lot of the powdered stuff.

I also try to help with digestion. I add probiotics to my cancer patient's diets to help their GI better digest the food they do eat. You can find high count acidolphilus at a health food store too.

Within the last 2 years I have switched to a 100% grain free diet, and have been trying to keep the carb %s down for my kids. I have been trying to keep their carb %s below 30%. So far we are doing ok.

Let me know if you have anything else you want to talk about. Cancer is one of those topics that I could go on for days about.


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## Bowsy (Nov 13, 2013)

I am so SO grateful for your response!

I will get the information on the chemo drug early tomorrow and update you. I know that she said finding the veins with hedgehogs can indeed be troublesome, and an option that she said could be considered down the road would be to perform a surgery to install a subdermal port. At that moment, I was too overwhelmed to analyze that scenario.

As for the food, it's quite ironic because I ordered a big bag of Evo Turkey and Chicken more than a year ago, because I wanted to switch Bowsy to a low-carb diet. Unfortunately, he always refused to eat any of it, although I tried to introduce them gradually  BTW, is the fat content in that kibble too high for hedgehogs? I noticed that the kibbles were very big for a hedgie's mouth. How are those in the Weight Management (i.e. can a hedgehog eat them easily)?

I have been syringe-feeding Bowsy some Royal Canin Recovery Wet for the last week, as he had lots of difficulty eating his kibble. Do you know if that food is similar to Hills N/D, or should I switch to Hills asap?

Since yesterday, it seems like he's getting more and more able to eat kibbles by himself once again. Since the breeder, his food has always been Royal Canin Kitten (never wanted to switch to the adult version either). Assuming I eventually try to gradually switch to Evo Weight Management, would you have any tips to encourage him to accept them?

Thank you a thousand times!!! It's so comforting to learn that there may be things I can still do to help him feel better, but it's just so sad that better nutrition could have maybe prevented this outcome.


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## Kalandra (Aug 25, 2008)

Weight management is15% fat. It’s fine. I don’t care too much about higher fat with cancer patients. I figure they already have worse problems than getting fat. Often I don’t see that much weight gain in cancer patients though, usually its a fight to keep the weight on them. Cancer really can speed up their metabolisms.

Another you may want to look at is Fromm Surf & Turf. It isn’t as low of a carb food as the Evo products, but it is lowish. Protein is 38% Fat 19% Carb ~23%. Its kibble size is a small pellet that even my 300 gram kids can manage. Salmon shows up as #1 & #3 ingredients. It is a high fat food, but again I don’t tend to worry about that as much with cancer patients. I have it as a small portion of my regular mix for my hedgehogs who need the extra calories. My hedgehogs pick it out first.

The weight management kibble is (or at least was) a triangle shape and yes it was on the big size. Take a mortar and pestle, put the kibble in and give it a good whack. It will break up the kibble and make it easier to eat. 

To make him eat, that is always a difficult thing. Especially if they are picky. Sometimes the fish oil (to add omegas) will get them to eat it. Sometimes mixing foods together so that they take on the old food smell helps. 

No matter what, you still need to practice the slow transition. Or else you will run into digestive issues. Keep stress levels down.

For now, concentrate on just keeping him eating and hope that the prednisone works. My experience with prednisone says that typically if it is going to work, you quickly start to see improvement.

And just for the record (so that anyone else reading it doesn't misunderstand) I don’t recommend 50% protein foods for normal hedgehogs. Cancer patients are a different beast. There are grain free foods out there with lower protein amounts that are more appropriate for healthy hedgehogs. You just have to hunt for them.

Also I don't know that a low carb diet would have prevented this. Cancer just happens. Hedgehogs are highly prone to all types of cancer. I went grain free for several reasons, and yes the off chance that it may help in this area is one of them.

But I have had good experience with low carb diets and having hedgehogs maintain a good quality of life for a while on them. It all depends on the cancer though. It could just be coincidence and it could be that it really helped for some cancers. No matter what, I don't feel it hurt any of my kids and if it gave them even 1 extra day of a good QUALITY life, well I'm happy to spend the extra time and effort making special meals for them.


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## Bowsy (Nov 13, 2013)

Unfortunately, we didn't get to help Bowsy feel better, as he died in our hands Sunday evening. He had been showing signs of improvement (more appetite / energy) with the prednisone, but I suspect he ultimately reacted badly to one of his medicines. He ultimately became very weak and gradually stopped breathing. At least, we were able to accompany and comfort him, and say our goodbyes. Thank you for your time and kindness. I hope your advice can one day help someone else with their hedgie. So tough!


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

I'm so sorry you lost him.  He was obviously very much loved and cared for, and I'm sure he knew it very well. RIP Bowsy.

And I'd like to thank both of you for the information on the thread - I bookmarked it the first time I read it & intend to keep it for possible future reference purposes.


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## sklock65 (Jan 9, 2013)

So sorry for your loss. I always say...losing a pet just sucks. At least you were able to be with him in his last moments. I can only hope with everything I have that someday I can be there for my Henry the way you were there for your little one. I'm sure he knew just how much he was loved. Perhaps he was suffering too much. Hopefully your happiest memories with him will be the ones that stick with you the most. Sending lots of love your way.

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## Kalandra (Aug 25, 2008)

Rats. I'm so sorry to hear this. Cancer is a rough beast. Sometimes you get a chance to help give them more quality time, and others it takes them quickly. No matter what it always sucks and leaves you in a state of "what if." 

There are many things that could have gone wrong. It may have simply been the cancer caused a lymph node to rupture and may have not been medication related at all.

RIP little one. You were obviously loved.


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