# Calcium sand?



## Jake

me and my woman recently got a leopard gecko(Lemy) and used calcium sand as her substrate. I noticed the that when Lemy gos poo the poo dries out and is easy to clean. There doesn't seem to be any dust in the "sand" but it does act like kitty litter in a way.
I'll get around to posting a pic of my lovely lizard eventually 

With Terra (my hedgehog) I've got her sleeping and exercise areas seperated. She don't pee or poo in her sleep/eating area
Now for the question part lol
Would the calcium sand be safe to use on the exercise bin of her "cage"?


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## Christemo

I wouldn't use it because it could get stuck in their private parts.


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## Ausage

Calcium sand is basically grushed limestone or coral. We often use this a part of the substrate for certain species of turtles, so I doubt that you would have a problem with "clumping". However, from the very little that I know of the natural history of Pigmy Hedgehogs I would be reluctant to use sand as a substrate.


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## Immortalia

Best way to test for safe bedding... Lick your finger and dip it into the bedding. If it sticks, it's not safe. If it doesn't stick, you're fine. (papertowel sticking to sticky fingers does not count )

No matter what, their private parts will be damp at some point in time, and they are bound to do something where the sand will reach their private parts, and because of the dampness, end up sticking. There have been stories of self mutilations because something got stuck or caused irritation(moreso in boys than girls, for obvious reasons) but the risk is there.


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## Jake

it does stick so I'll only use it for my lizard
was thinking it would be something to dig in 
I'll just keep using pine or aspen shavings


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## Immortalia

Pine is not safe. When mixed with urine, it emits some sort of fumes that are toxic and can cause upper respiratory problems. It's stupid that pet stores still sell pine, since it's bad for all small animals.


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## Lilysmommy

Immortalia said:


> Pine is not safe. When mixed with urine, it emits some sort of fumes that are toxic and can cause upper respiratory problems. It's stupid that pet stores still sell pine, since it's bad for all small animals.


Does anyone have any links regarding pine and small animals? I'm curious to find out more about whether it's safe or not. I've heard people say that it is absolutely not safe ever, but have also seen people admit that they mix it up with cedar, which I know is definitely bad. I was always under the impression that pine's as safe as aspen if it's kiln-dried. Lily's breeder uses kiln-dried pine pellets for all of her hedgehogs and has for years, as far as I know, and I also used it for Lily for the first several months after I got her. The only problem we ever had with it was that she got mites from it, which was why I switched to fleece. I'm just curious to find out the truth about it, since I work at a pet store. If it's really as unsafe as cedar, I'd like to know so I can inform customers correctly.


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## calisphere

As a side note, I'd get rid of the calcium sand all together. It's considered expensive garbage to most reptile people I know. I have several reptiles myself and as a cheap way of making a lot of bedding, I go to Home Depot or Lowes (depending on what side of the street I'm on as they are literally right across the street from each other). I pick up Play Sand. I tend to make my own bedding for my reptiles as it's cheaper for the amount I need (turtle cage has over 100 pounds of bedding alone). Play sand is really cheap and if you need to sterilize it, it's easy to do.

What sort of lizard do you have? If it's a "dry" lizard, then I'd use play sand. If it's a "wet" lizard, or one that likes it humid, I'd use a mixture of peat moss, top soil, and sand. I also like to add sheet moss to make a sort of grass area. I think I spent around $80 for all the parts and ended up with 200 pounds of substrate material. It will last me forever as I don't have to change the turtle substrate more than twice a year. Thank God for turtles who use their swimming pool as a litter box.

Lastly, remember that many reptile keepers feel that sand isn't a great substrate because it can cause impaction if too much is ingested and it can harbor bacteria if not cleaned often.


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## Lilysmommy

calisphere said:


> As a side note, I'd get rid of the calcium sand all together. It's considered expensive garbage to most reptile people I know. I have several reptiles myself and as a cheap way of making a lot of bedding, I go to Home Depot or Lowes (depending on what side of the street I'm on as they are literally right across the street from each other). I pick up Play Sand. I tend to make my own bedding for my reptiles as it's cheaper for the amount I need (turtle cage has over 100 pounds of bedding alone). Play sand is really cheap and if you need to sterilize it, it's easy to do.
> 
> What sort of lizard do you have? If it's a "dry" lizard, then I'd use play sand. If it's a "wet" lizard, or one that likes it humid, I'd use a mixture of peat moss, top soil, and sand. I also like to add sheet moss to make a sort of grass area. I think I spent around $80 for all the parts and ended up with 200 pounds of substrate material. It will last me forever as I don't have to change the turtle substrate more than twice a year. Thank God for turtles who use their swimming pool as a litter box.
> 
> Lastly, remember that many reptile keepers feel that sand isn't a great substrate because it can cause impaction if too much is ingested and it can harbor bacteria if not cleaned often.


That's good to know, about the calcium sand. I work at a pet store and I've been unsure on it myself, from reading on bearded dragon forums. I've heard plenty on there about how dangerous sand is for those guys, especially calcium sand, since they can quickly get impacted from tasting their substrate. But I know things that may go for one reptile don't necessarily go for all, so I wasn't sure how far that concern extended. I'll have to keep this in mind when helping new owners buy reptile supplies.


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## Ausage

Lilysmommy said:


> Immortalia said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pine is not safe. When mixed with urine, it emits some sort of fumes that are toxic and can cause upper respiratory problems. It's stupid that pet stores still sell pine, since it's bad for all small animals.
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone have any links regarding pine and small animals? I'm curious to find out more about whether it's safe or not. I've heard people say that it is absolutely not safe ever, but have also seen people admit that they mix it up with cedar, which I know is definitely bad. I was always under the impression that pine's as safe as aspen if it's kiln-dried. Lily's breeder uses kiln-dried pine pellets for all of her hedgehogs and has for years, as far as I know, and I also used it for Lily for the first several months after I got her. The only problem we ever had with it was that she got mites from it, which was why I switched to fleece. I'm just curious to find out the truth about it, since I work at a pet store. If it's really as unsafe as cedar, I'd like to know so I can inform customers correctly.
Click to expand...

I also would be interested in this. Everything I have read and all the experts I have spoken with (breeder and vets) say use aspen or pine and avoid cedar because the natural oils that make it insect resistant are bad for insectivores. "All small animals" is a very, very big generalization.


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## Immortalia

Calcium sand also tends to solidify and become rock hard when you have a creature that needs high humidity. I mix those coconut fiber/moss blocks with play sand for my hermit crabs.

As for pine, all that I've read says it produces similar phenols as the cedar. Some believe kiln dried is safe, and some still think of it as unsafe. The kiln drying process hopefully removes most of the harmful phenols and acids, but some believe it still doesn't remove enough. Though I would think the pine pellets should be safe since they've been processed so much. There were studies on rabbits that have liver disease because they were on pine. I guess in the end, it may come down to ease of use and personal preference.

http://www.rabbit.org/journal/1/liver-disease.html http://www.ratfanclub.org/litters.html http://www.trifl.org/cedar.shtml
I might have to actually ask the profs at school and look through my school books to get some more "solid" evidence. It'll prob be some time next week or so before I'd be able to comment more. I know our rodents and rabbits were kept on shavings, just not what kind, so I'll have to ask the profs.


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## Ausage

Thank you. That makes for a very interesting read.


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## Jake

> What sort of lizard do you have? If it's a "dry" lizard, then I'd use play sand. If it's a "wet" lizard, or one that likes it humid, I'd use a mixture of peat moss, top soil, and sand. I also like to add sheet moss to make a sort of grass area. I think I spent around $80 for all the parts and ended up with 200 pounds of substrate material. It will last me forever as I don't have to change the turtle substrate more than twice a year. Thank God for turtles who use their swimming pool as a litter box.


My lizard is a desert type. She is a Leopard gecko named Lemy. One I can't use any real sand(eats it and can't poop right) for, so I got the edible calcium sand.


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## Lilysmommy

Jake said:


> What sort of lizard do you have? If it's a "dry" lizard, then I'd use play sand. If it's a "wet" lizard, or one that likes it humid, I'd use a mixture of peat moss, top soil, and sand. I also like to add sheet moss to make a sort of grass area. I think I spent around $80 for all the parts and ended up with 200 pounds of substrate material. It will last me forever as I don't have to change the turtle substrate more than twice a year. Thank God for turtles who use their swimming pool as a litter box.
> 
> 
> 
> My lizard is a desert type. She is a Leopard gecko named Lemy. One I can't use any real sand(eats it and can't poop right) for, so I got the edible calcium sand.
Click to expand...

That's why they said sand is bad - lizards eat it and become impacted. Calcium sand is no different from other sand, but could be even more dangerous. Pet stores say it's safe, but pet stores don't have correct information much of the time. Even if leopard geckos don't need high humidity, making the sand get hard, what do you think happens when it's inside the lizard? It's getting wet...And solidifies inside the lizard.


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## Jake

I found that the calcium sand don't digest fast enough for geckos
it does breakdown
we removed it from Lemy's terrarium got paper down now
Lemy was bound up little but she did poop some 
Now me and the ol lady gotta pick between peat moss and reptile carpet 
I'm happy to fix the problem before we got more geckos


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## Jake

new substrate its safe and natural looking 
I had to make it by mixing up some soils and moss and slate stone
gonna add plants eventually
no more geckos as of yet...sad story 
Lemy seems much happier


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## Hedgehog lover01

My hedgehog died cuse of using sand you should use care fresh not the walmart brand it comes with mites usually


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## Jake

my hedgie uses a combination of fleece for her main eat/sleeping area and kennel dried pine shavings for her exercise area
the new substrate is for my gecko and I did my research before using it


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