# Liam Updates!



## cylaura (Jan 13, 2011)

Took Liam to the vet this morning, as his dry skin and quill loss had been getting much worse over the past week or so. He has always had some issues, but I'd had a lot of success with Sunshine Factor/Flaxseed Oil/Wet Food up until now. I took all the quills he lost between last night and this morning to the office to show the vet - there were probably about 20! :shock: Anyway, vet is pretty sure he has mites, which is what I expected. We didn't do a skin scrape, since she was almost positive mites were the problem, and because they can come back negative anyway. She wanted to treat with Ivermectin, but happily gave me Revolution when I asked for it. She also said I wasn't the first person to bring up concerns over Ivermectin with hedgehogs. She said that any issues with Ivermectin would be because of overdosing, and that she has never had problems in the past. Is this correct - that the problems with Ivermectin in hedgies were caused by an overdose? Or is it different, like an allergic reaction? Just wondering. I really like the vets I see, and they do seem quite knowledgeable about hedgehogs, so just wondering what her thought process might be in all of this. Anyways, he had his first dose of Rev this morning. Since this is my first time at the mite rodeo, I have a couple of other questions:

1) I need to clean his whole cage and liners in order to prevent more mite troubles. What are the best solutions to do that with? Should I throw some bleach in with the liners and hedgie bags? And should I be cleaning his cage and changing his liners more frequently in the next month?

2) If we go through the whole Revolution tx without improvement, what is the next step? Obviously, not there yet, but I can't help worrying about the future. The vet told me I should see improvement by the time I apply the second dose in two weeks, is that correct?

3) I'm going to go get some aveeno oatmeal bath stuff in the next couple of days to help soothe his skin. Any other tips for an itchy hedgie? I can see new quills growing in, and he doesn't have any bald patches, so that's good at least. 

Other than that, he is doing great. He was very calm at the wet, just wriggly, which is normal. And no biting this time! :lol: He weighed 415g, which the vet said was perfect. She didn't see anything else out of the ordinary, and he even let the vet check his teeth (guess that "it's really okay if I touch your nose and mouth" bonding is working)! He is currently snoozing in his carrying case at work with me, since the visit took longer than expected, and since I didn't want to put him back in his dirty cage. 

I also made him a great new dig box the other day out of his old igloo (since he doesn't use it anymore) - just turned it upside down and filled it with rocks and plants. Since it's deeper than his old dig box (a shoebox lid), I can actually bury crickets down in the rocks, which is good fun for him. Between that and hiding crickets in and around his Ele-Fun (which he prefers to sleep under instead of in :roll: ) he's been getting quite the workout every night. He will always go straight for cricket hunting when I put him back into his cage at night, even when the lights are on. I will try and get a video, and maybe some new pictures, to put on this thread later tonight or tomorrow.  

Anyways, just wanted to let you guys know what's been going on with us. If anyone has any mite tips or tricks, please let me know!


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## rivoli256 (Mar 1, 2009)

thank you! great update...sorry to hear he has mites though  poor guy. big hugs!


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## cylaura (Jan 13, 2011)

Just bumping this to see if anyone has any advice (esp. about the cleaning), thanks guys!  

Also, I tried to take a video last night of the cricket nomming but my roommate kept talking to me and trying to annoy Liam. :roll: I'll try again tonight...


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## Kalandra (Aug 25, 2008)

There are always going to be those that have an allergic reaction, but for the most part yes, the problem with Ivermectin is over dosing. Ivermectin is quite strong stuff and hedgehogs are tiny creatures. The amount it takes to over dose is very small. It is far easier and safer to use Revolution and not take the risk of over dosing on ivermectin.

It is recommended to clean the hedgehog’s cage thoroughly. If you use anything wooden, remove it. Clean all toys and items thoroughly. Many do use soap and bleach, then rinse repeatedly and allow to thoroughly airing out before returning to the hedgehog. I would recommend cleaning the cage more frequently as well.

Quill loss can continue for a while after the mites are gone. The quills are damaged and the hedgehog will shed them. You should see improvement with the skin and new quill growth coming in though. 

How dry is the air in your hedgehog’s room? Is it low humidity? It sounds like you have dietary problems taken care of with the supplements you list, however, if the humidity level is quite low it can cause hedgehogs to have very dry skin. Also how often do you bathe Liam?


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## cylaura (Jan 13, 2011)

Kalandra said:


> There are always going to be those that have an allergic reaction, but for the most part yes, the problem with Ivermectin is over dosing. Ivermectin is quite strong stuff and hedgehogs are tiny creatures. The amount it takes to over dose is very small. It is far easier and safer to use Revolution and not take the risk of over dosing on ivermectin.


That is what I thought I remembered. I'm glad I'd read about the dangers of Ivermectin use on here before this situation came up. I really hope the Revolution works - if it doesn't, I'm sure the vet will try and make me use Ivermectin as an alternative. :?



Kalandra said:


> It is recommended to clean the hedgehog's cage thoroughly. If you use anything wooden, remove it. Clean all toys and items thoroughly. Many do use soap and bleach, then rinse repeatedly and allow to thoroughly airing out before returning to the hedgehog. I would recommend cleaning the cage more frequently as well.


Thank you for the advice! I figured using bleach was okay but I just wanted to double check. Most of his toys are plastic, so those are easy to clean. He has a small stuffed animal that I don't mind just getting rid of, but he also has his Ele-Fun hideaway that is all fabric. Of course I threw away the packaging that had any cleaning instructions on it. :roll: Does anyone on here who has one have any ideas for cleaning it that won't destroy it? It's really cute and I would hate to mess it up.



Kalandra said:


> How dry is the air in your hedgehog's room? Is it low humidity? It sounds like you have dietary problems taken care of with the supplements you list, however, if the humidity level is quite low it can cause hedgehogs to have very dry skin. Also how often do you bathe Liam?


I live in the hot and wet southern US, so if anything it might be too humid, especially this time of year. His cage thermometer has a humidity reader though, and it generally hovers around 50%, sometimes higher. For baths, he usually gets a foot bath about once a week (depending on the poopy boots situation) and a full bath once a month. When he gets his full bath I put some flax oil on his skin, which improves the flakiness very much but the effect doesn't last long. I used to bathe him more frequently and was corrected by members here, but that was months ago. 

Anyways, thank you for the help! Operation Mites-Be-Gone begins tonight!


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## hanhan27 (May 12, 2011)

I hope you and Liam can get rid of the mites quickly! Let us know about his progress.


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## Guest (Aug 30, 2011)

cylaura said:


> Kalandra said:
> 
> 
> > There are always going to be those that have an allergic reaction, but for the most part yes, the problem with Ivermectin is over dosing. Ivermectin is quite strong stuff and hedgehogs are tiny creatures. The amount it takes to over dose is very small. It is far easier and safer to use Revolution and not take the risk of over dosing on ivermectin.
> ...


In regards to humid I've been researching the native areas of the White-bellied and Algerian Hedgehogs

While Algerians tend to be in a more 45% to 60% area the White Bellied are more in a 55% to 70% range in the areas they are indigenous to so I've been trying to keep my humidity there lately due to dry skin problems as my girls came down with mites so I know what you mean.

I have the octo-hide away though I stopped using it because when I needed to get my girls out is was not easy  It says hand wash in warm water though I machine washed it and have no issue or damage or loose threads however I would go with hand washing first


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## cylaura (Jan 13, 2011)

Rivoli and Hanhan - thanks for the well-wishes! I'll keep everyone posted. I'm hoping we caught this relatively early and that he will be healed up soon. 



TWCOGAR said:


> In regards to humid I've been researching the native areas of the White-bellied and Algerian Hedgehogs
> 
> While Algerians tend to be in a more 45% to 60% area the White Bellied are more in a 55% to 70% range in the areas they are indigenous to so I've been trying to keep my humidity there lately due to dry skin problems as my girls came down with mites so I know what you mean.
> 
> I have the octo-hide away though I stopped using it because when I needed to get my girls out is was not easy  It says hand wash in warm water though I machine washed it and have no issue or damage or loose threads however I would go with hand washing first


Wow - who knew there was information about this? You should have a doctorate in hedgieology with all the research you've been doing recently, TWCOGAR! Liam is an Algerian, I'll definitely keep this is mind for the future. 

Liam likes to hide right where the head of the elephant ends and the trunk begins (AKA the most inconvenient spot) so I feel your pain. :roll: It's just so darn cute. I'll try washing the Ele-fun tonight by hand. It has this crinkly stuff in the ears so I was worried that they might get messed up in the washing machine. Thank you!


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## Guest (Aug 30, 2011)

cylaura said:


> Rivoli and Hanhan - thanks for the well-wishes! I'll keep everyone posted. I'm hoping we caught this relatively early and that he will be healed up soon.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It doesn't make it fact I just read a good amount about the climates of the areas where they are found, I could be majorly mistaken and its just a suggestion and something I myself am trying to see any results the moment I notice something different in a negative way I am going to be adjusting the humidity


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## cylaura (Jan 13, 2011)

As promised, here's a new pic and a video:

This is his new dig box, made out of his old plastic igloo + aquarium rocks and plants. He loves digging around for crickets in there! Just in case anyone else is looking for a new use for an igloo their hedgie abandoned.

[attachment=0:28i5omww]Liam_DigBox.jpg[/attachment:28i5omww]

I tried to get a video of the whole cricket hunting routine, but The Little Prince wasn't being cooperative, and my phone camera isn't that great anyway. So, enjoy this little clip of him employing some ninja skills to get that one last pesky cricket.


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## Rainy (Jul 27, 2011)

Oh, what a good li'l hunter!!! So cute! :lol:


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## ReginasMommy (Apr 13, 2011)

Awww, that was so cute! Liam is adorable!


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## cylaura (Jan 13, 2011)

Just a quick mite update for all my HHC friends:

Liam had his third dose of Revolution on Monday. His skin looks SO much better! He is still a bit flaky near his head and shoulders, but the rest of him looks good. His quill loss has improved dramatically; I'm still finding a few every day or so, but nowhere near the amount he was losing before. I can see lots of new quills growing in as well. He seems calmer and happier too, now that he's no longer as itchy - he barely ever huffs when I pet him now!  

I still have a lot of Revolution left over, so I was thinking about giving him doses every once and a while as a preventative. For those of you who do that, how often do you give it? And do you use any more/less than a regular dose? I was giving him 0.05mL each round. 

I also have another, unrelated question. Liam loves the new dig box I made him (there's a picture earlier in the thread), which is great, except he has started using it as a litterbox as well as hunting grounds. It's like clockwork - he runs over, finds all the crickets, eats them, and then immediately poops (I'm assuming the cycle gets repeated during the night). I don't really mind picking out poop in the mornings, but after a couple weeks the whole thing starts to smell pretty bad because of the pee, and it is a bit of a pain to take all the rocks out, boil them in water/vinegar, and put it all together again. Does anyone else's hedgie like to potty in their dig box? Should I maybe replace the rocks with something more absorbent or easier to clean? Just wondering.  

I wish I had some new pictures to share, but I have just been SO busy lately. I'll try to up the cuteness quotient sometime soon!!


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