# Breed specific legislation/ban....



## shaelikestaquitos (Feb 2, 2010)

A politician in Montreal is attempting to ban pitbulls all over the city...

What is WRONG with the world?!?!

Does anyone agree with breed specific legislations/bans???
Because I certainly do not!

Breeds do not dictate whether a dog will be good/bad, OWNERS are the ones responsible.


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## Evelyne (Jul 8, 2010)

I completely agree with you!
Although, there are some breeds who are bred to fight..
So it's logical that those breeds are more difficult dogs and should therefore not be kept by ppl who do not know what they are doing.
Pitbulls are originally not bred for fighting,that started because somebody thought they could be great fighting dogs and make their owners some big bucks..
Those are ppl should be banned and locked up for life!
Poor little doggies


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## tie-dye hedgie (Dec 19, 2009)

That's just crazy and I completely agree with the both of you! They shouldn't pass the ban. Other breeds are trained to fight too, not just pitbulls, but still they shouldn't do that to all the responsible and loving owners! :x


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## LizardGirl (Aug 25, 2008)

I don't like the idea of bans. I think requiring permits for certain animals is good, though. If they could just require certain things of owners of specific species or breeds, the world would be a much better place.  

That being said, I've known many pitties that were the sweetest, friendliest dogs. Then I've met some that give you creeps when they are around. They are great dogs, but require a lot more effort than say, a lab. That doesn't mean they should be banned. :roll:


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## leannem (Mar 27, 2009)

I think the biggest problem with pitbulls is the way they are being bred. They aren't being bred as pets anymore, backyard breeders are taking the meanest, biggest pitty's and breeding them to produce more bad dogs. In some cities it's just gotten so out of control. I volunteered at a local SPCA for awhile and 90% of the dogs in there were bully's or bully X. And I would say that out of that 90% at least 75% were very dangerous animals (and the rest were just too adorable to not fall in love with). While I don't agree with a breed specific ban I do think that something must be done about these backyard breeders that are destroying great animals.

LG - I like your idea of permits


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## hedgielover (Oct 30, 2008)

I agree with all of you here. When Ontario banned pit bulls I was very upset. I had some pit bulls come into the pet store where I worked and they were honestly the sweetest dogs we had come in. One time a lady brought her's in and it just snuggled with me for like 20 minutes while she was shopping. Just rubbing against me and laying it's head on my lap. They are beautiful dogs. 

The thing that bothers me about the law in Ontario is that if someone suspects your dog is a pit bull or pit bull cross you as the owner have to be able to prove otherwise. The expense for DNA tests etc. and all the responsibility is on the owner. Which is the opposite of how the law is supposed to work in Canada. Onus of proof is on the Government, innocent until proven guilty. 

The other thing that bothers me is why don't they ban, rottweilers, mastiffs, dobermans, or german shepherds. All of those breeds have been known to attack and be difficult dogs to train. In fact every breed that has traditionally been used as a guard dog has the potential to be a weapon, why not ban all of them? Lets at least be thorough. :roll: 

Breed does not determine violence. The scariest dog that came into the pet store in the two years I worked there was a Newfoundland. This dog was dominant, aggressive and once attacked our groomer. Everyone thinks that Newfoundlands are like big teddy bears and no one would think to ban them but put almost any dog with owners who are a bad match and you have potential for that dog to resort to aggression.


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## shaelikestaquitos (Feb 2, 2010)

I agree with all of you. Pitbulls are actually one of my favorite breeds of dog... pits, rotties and poms :lol: But this is just so upsetting! Because it doesn't matter if you ban the breed, the owners will still be out there, and they can easily get their hands on another breed and train it to be just as vicious and aggressive as the dog that they previously had. I don't know why politicians don't think of such things!!! 

Also I have NEVER met a single human-aggressive pitbull, and I live in an area where 50% of the dogs kept are pits! I have also been attacked by a dog before, but it was a dalmatian for god's sake >_< Every pitbull I have met along the streets of Montreal have been very sweet, so I could never imagine why people consider them to be such vicious dogs 

My mom is pretty upset about this too... she wanted to get a rottweiler or a pitbull for us (she's here with us on a travel visa... we are all originally from Korea) before she left so that we'd have some sort of protection (my sister and I will be living by ourselves in Canada once she leaves).

Hopefully this legislation won't go through!


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## Hedgieonboard (Nov 15, 2009)

Same here. The closest I ever came to being attacked by a dog was a dalmatian. Luckily the owner came out just in the nick of time when she heard the commotion but had to physically run out and drag the dog back because it wasn't listening. I agree and think that if they ban a specific breed the people training them to be bad in the first place are just going to find a replacement breed. Legislation like that doesn't get down to the root of the problem which is the irresponsible people that do such things.


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## Beanie (Jun 9, 2010)

I got attacked by a great dane last summer...he bit my face  Talk about scary. And now Scooby-Doo just doesn't seem as friendly :lol: 

People just need to learn how to socialize their dogs, just like we do with hedgies. Yeah some dogs are kind of antisocial, but they are all capable of some serious danger. Also, if you know your dog gets very aggressive or defensive, you shouldn't be bringing them to a pet store where there are a lot of people and other animals...


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## LizardGirl (Aug 25, 2008)

I won't deny that I have met many pit bulls, rottweilers, dobermans, and dalmations that fit the typical sterotype of aggressive, unpredictable dogs. Whether people like it or not, animals bred for certain traits (including personality) can just be mean, even if they are raised in a home without abuse or bad handling. I know someone who is a great dog owner, and had taken in a pit puppy. He is a sweet dog, and she trusted him around her kids (young, infant & 4 years old). She trained him constantly, had him on a great schedule, socialized him, all that you could do for a dog. Then one day out of the blue the dog decided he would have a go at her husband, completely unprovoked. The husband ended up needing stitches on his arms, but they kept the dog. I think they are still in shock at how a dog raised "perfectly" can still be so unpredictable and dangerous. Some pitties would never do that. Some might. It's even worse when you get an owner who doesn't mean wrong, but gets a pit bull and simply doesn't put the effort into training and socialization. Things just get ugly. 

If a place is willing to go through the trouble of actually banning a specific breed, wouldn't it be better to try and find a better breed-specific, but less drastic way of control? What about requiring all pit bulls to be spayed or neutered? I still prefer the idea of permits, especially if you could get different ones (pet permit, expensive-hard-to-get-unless-you-do-a-ton-of-stuff breeding permit, etc). That way all pet pitties are kept by people required to do their research and to have their animal fixed. That would solve so many problems without going all the way to banning them. :roll:


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## Sela (Apr 10, 2010)

I definitely do not agree with banning breeds. It isn't the dog's fault if it's been trained to be vicious, and besides this, I have met a number of pitbulls who were big babies.

Once, when my dad was working at the Pet Valu we owned, a man came in to get a muzzle for his pitbull, since it was now required by law. My father couldn't get the muzzle on the pitbull for a fitting because the dog wouldn't stop licking his face. I'm sorry, but does that sound like a vicious dog to you?


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## hedgielover (Oct 30, 2008)

I love that story Sela. 

To LG. I agree that some breeds are more prone to violence or unpredictable attacks, however many more breeds are prone to this than just pit bulls. As I said before any breed originally bred as a guard dog is more prone to react quickly to perceived danger, to be more protective and more likely to bite. It just doesn't make sense to me to ban pit bulls without banning all the other dogs that are bred with the same characteristics; fast reaction, alert, intelligent, loyal, strong, dominant, protective. However if they did that we would have no more dogs with the capability to protect people or assist the police. 

I don't think that any dog just attacks for no reason. There has to be some sort of reason whether or not it is perceived by people.


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## shaelikestaquitos (Feb 2, 2010)

Sela,
That is an adorable story :lol:
Pits are so lovable, I have not met a single human-aggressive pit in my entire life, and I live in an area where 50% of the dog owners have pits :lol:

hedgielover,
I agree that some breeds of dogs are more prone to aggression, and I also agree that there is always a reason for the dog being aggressive. Dogs just in general need strong leadership, and I think people fail to take that into consideration when they purchase an animal. I see this more often with people with smaller dogs though, because they consider it to be a "baby" of sorts, and don't realize that they won't turn out sweet just by giving affection and spoiling them.


It's just unfortunate that pitbulls have been given such bad reps due to irresponsible pet owners
*sigh*


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

A few years back I was talking to a girl who was going through for vet tech. They had a very reputable experienced dog trainer come in to give a talk on dogs. He told them that no matter how many generations of good breeding the dog has or how much training the dog has, you should never ever leave one alone with a child or small animal. Despite all the good genetics and training, all it takes is one little movement or sound that triggers some past instinct and it will attack. 

How often do we hear of someones child, often a grandchild that is attacked by the family dog that had previously been so well behaved. It happens and it happens with all breeds. Right now, it's happening mostly with pit bulls because they are the popular dog at the moment and often they are owned by people with the macho attitude or poor breeding and training. It's happen in the past with Shepherds, Dobermans and Rottweilers. 

I don't necessarily agree with breed banning because any dog can become aggressive and do harm. I've seen more snappy little dogs than big, it's just that the big dogs do far more damage and are harder to get control of once they attack. I feel that all dogs, regardless of size or breed should be muzzled when out in a public place. Of course this doesn't help those who have been attacked by dogs that were out in the owners yard and escaped to go after someone. We hear that happening way too often. I don't know what the answer is. 

Pitbulls are supposed to be muzzled when outside and are supposed to have been neutered yet we constantly see them out in public with no muzzle and obviously have not had the snip. These are the very dogs the law was meant for. It's obvious their owners won't obey the law so you know darn well that dog is probably poorly bred and not well trained.


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## Sunshiner (May 12, 2010)

I don't really like pit bulls, but that doesn't mean I want them banned either. German Shepherds are actually easy to train. At least, my mom's friend's was.


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## GT_Ridaz (Aug 8, 2010)

Okay here is my 0.2 :
I dont care if they ban or not coz i dont even live there. But i kinda do agree.You gotta see it from their point of view also. These dogs ( pits, rot's and dobermans ) can be very agressive. Yes, if you train them well they might behave, but trust me when i say this "they can never be trusted". These breeds tend to just snap even if you took good care of them. Okay, we all love animals. But just for 1 minute look at it this way :
If you had a pit bull and you took good care of it and kept it in your house around your kids of course, and one day that dog decides to god forbid attack your child, then what?
Would you really risk it having a dog like that around your kids, seriously? knowing that the dog can snap. How many kids got killed by pit bulls and dobermans ? not a few i can assure you
Can you even imagine having 2 doberman dogs ripping your kid apart !!!
If this ever happens to you, then i guarantee you wont only be with the ban, but you would probably fund an operation to kill all dogs on earth lol 
Ok maybe thats a bit too far.The point is, even though we all love animals, i dont think we can love them more then our kids.Period.


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## hedgielover (Oct 30, 2008)

GT_Ridaz I can't even begin to tell you how much I disagree with your view of dogs so I won't. I will however repeat that there are more breeds of aggressive dogs that are dangerous than are singled out by legislation further more even friendly dogs can hurt children by accident. If we have legislation to ban one or two breeds why not go a step further and ban all of them? I'm afraid of where this type of legislation will lead.


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## LizardGirl (Aug 25, 2008)

> The point is, even though we all love animals, i dont think we can love them more then our kids.Period.


To any good dog owner, their dogs ARE their kids. Who would want to kill or ban a family member just because they have the potential to hurt someone?


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## shaelikestaquitos (Feb 2, 2010)

GT_Ridaz said:


> Okay here is my 0.2 :
> I dont care if they ban or not coz i dont even live there. But i kinda do agree.You gotta see it from their point of view also. These dogs ( pits, rot's and dobermans ) can be very agressive. Yes, if you train them well they might behave, but trust me when i say this "they can never be trusted". These breeds tend to just snap even if you took good care of them. Okay, we all love animals. But just for 1 minute look at it this way :
> If you had a pit bull and you took good care of it and kept it in your house around your kids of course, and one day that dog decides to god forbid attack your child, then what?
> Would you really risk it having a dog like that around your kids, seriously? knowing that the dog can snap. How many kids got killed by pit bulls and dobermans ? not a few i can assure you
> ...


You do realize that ANY dog "can never be trusted," right?
Statistically breeds such as poodles have been recorded as attacking people more than pits or rottweilers. Yes, those breeds are powerful breeds, but it is not their fault if they were bred to be stronger. It should be the owners who should be fully aware of the responsibility of these breeds. It does not mean in any way that they should be banned. It's like saying a certain race (humans) are not allowed to enter a certain country because one person of the race has committed a crime against the country...


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## Puffers315 (Apr 19, 2010)

If I had kids and had a pit bull whom I raised from a puppy and came from a good breeder and fully knew his personality and such, then yes I'd have zero problems leaving it with a child. I agree with no dog can fully be trusted to the 100% max, but good breeding, good rearing and a balanced life in a dog will make the dog. Pit Bulls only get a bad rap because of waste of life people such as Michael Vicks and every other ghetto/white trash person who wants to have a pit bull so they can look tuff. The breed shouldn't be singled out, how about restricting the laws on dogs just a touch, the ones that deal who owns them. In the US / NY State, you have to get a license to own a dog. Is it enforced? God no, none of the three dogs who have lived here in the past 15 years were licensed. But require some sort of license system where owners have to get the license through the breeder who records who owns the animal, like we do with hand guns.

ANY animal can be made vicious. I'm sure if you gave me a hoglet and with the right up bringing, it would be a vicious, bitting, hard spiking ball of death. What goes on with dogs is due to their pack instincts, they are in packs, they hunt for food, and there's always a dominant male. Its the PEOPLE who need to be trained about keeping any kind of dog, not the dog themselves.

And from reading the other thread, indeed, Dalmations, Dobermans and even German Shepards tend to be more aggressive than a Pit Bull. Indeed they are big powerful dogs, but weren't meant to be fighters. They get a really bad rap and its unfair to have dried up old politicians using them as a platform to get a certain demographic group of people.

Can't trust a dog 100%, but you sure as **** can trust the right ones for at least 98%.


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## shaelikestaquitos (Feb 2, 2010)

Puffers315 said:


> If I had kids and had a pit bull whom I raised from a puppy and came from a good breeder and fully knew his personality and such, then yes I'd have zero problems leaving it with a child. I agree with no dog can fully be trusted to the 100% max, but good breeding, good rearing and a balanced life in a dog will make the dog. Pit Bulls only get a bad rap because of waste of life people such as Michael Vicks and every other ghetto/white trash person who wants to have a pit bull so they can look tuff. The breed shouldn't be singled out, how about restricting the laws on dogs just a touch, the ones that deal who owns them. In the US / NY State, you have to get a license to own a dog. Is it enforced? God no, none of the three dogs who have lived here in the past 15 years were licensed. But require some sort of license system where owners have to get the license through the breeder who records who owns the animal, like we do with hand guns.
> 
> ANY animal can be made vicious. I'm sure if you gave me a hoglet and with the right up bringing, it would be a vicious, bitting, hard spiking ball of death. What goes on with dogs is due to their pack instincts, they are in packs, they hunt for food, and there's always a dominant male. Its the PEOPLE who need to be trained about keeping any kind of dog, not the dog themselves.
> 
> ...


Thank you Puffers315, I COMPLETELY agree with you! 100%!


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## hedgielover (Oct 30, 2008)

shaelikestaquitos said:


> Puffers315 said:
> 
> 
> > If I had kids and had a pit bull whom I raised from a puppy and came from a good breeder and fully knew his personality and such, then yes I'd have zero problems leaving it with a child. I agree with no dog can fully be trusted to the 100% max, but good breeding, good rearing and a balanced life in a dog will make the dog. Pit Bulls only get a bad rap because of waste of life people such as Michael Vicks and every other ghetto/white trash person who wants to have a pit bull so they can look tuff. The breed shouldn't be singled out, how about restricting the laws on dogs just a touch, the ones that deal who owns them. In the US / NY State, you have to get a license to own a dog. Is it enforced? God no, none of the three dogs who have lived here in the past 15 years were licensed. But require some sort of license system where owners have to get the license through the breeder who records who owns the animal, like we do with hand guns.
> ...


Well said Puffers I agree too.


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## GT_Ridaz (Aug 8, 2010)

hedgielover said:


> GT_Ridaz I can't even begin to tell you how much I disagree with your view of dogs so I won't. I will however repeat that there are more breeds of aggressive dogs that are dangerous than are singled out by legislation further more even friendly dogs can hurt children by accident. If we have legislation to ban one or two breeds why not go a step further and ban all of them? I'm afraid of where this type of legislation will lead.


Your right. Alot of other breeds can also hurt people, but they wont do nearly as much damage as a pit would.
Here is a list of the most dangerous dog breeds, and guess who gets 1st and 2nd place?
http://www.petsdo.com/blog/top-ten-10-m ... dog-breeds
Also google deaths by dogs and you will see how many kids died by pit and dober's.Like i said in the begining, i'm not for nor against baning any animal to be honest. I'm just stating the fact that some breeds shouldnt be around humans or kids atleast because the chances of them snaping and attacking their own owner is high. We all heard this story before "OMG, little jimmy was such a cute and friendly dog. I dont understand why he would attack me, i was always so good to him" .
And by the way, i would rather be attacked by a Dalmatian than by a pit .


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## shaelikestaquitos (Feb 2, 2010)

Dogs will not attack without a reason.

You do know the pitbulls were originally bred to bring down not only bulls, but also as nanny dogs, right?

With the right owners, they make wonderful pets.

EDIT:
I have friends whose families have had pits in their lives since they were born, and they are the most friendliest dogs I have ever met. One is dog aggressive, but other than that NONE show aggression towards kids or people... So just sayin'... out of experience, I have never met a pitbull that could "turn on" their owners at any moment. They are as loyal as any dog can be.


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## hedgielover (Oct 30, 2008)

Dogs show very subtle warning signs. When people don't see them they say that the dog has suddenly snapped.


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## Sela (Apr 10, 2010)

The thing NOBODY ever asks when a kid gets attacked by a dog is 'What did the kid do?' The dog, in almost every case, must have been provoked somehow. If I was a dog, I'd bite the brat that just pulled my tail, too.

By the way, do you know how likely a Dachschund is to bite? They're well-known for being nippy, not to mention loud. We have one, actually, a miniature, and she's bitten two people, myself included, on the boobs. Sorry if that sounds a little vulgar, but it's absolutely true. She broke the skin, too. Both times, it was to protect my older brother, with whom I and Chris, his friend, were roughousing. (Different occasions, same cause.) She thought we were attacking him, I guess.

Despite the fact that Jess bit me, I would never think of putting her down for it. She was trying to protect Michael, and in a way, I did provoke her, even though I had no intention of doing so. I would feel the same no matter what breed of dog she was.

And Puffers, I couldn't have said it better myself.


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