# Fruits and Vegi's



## karma3299 (Apr 1, 2016)

So, I know this thread is about to explode, but I adopted my little guy (Dumbo) a couple of months ago from a local breeder who is completely against feeding fruits and vegi's to hedgehogs to the point in which it will void her warranty. Below is a clip of her website regarding the issue. I have been reading this site for a couple of weeks an have not yet seen/heard anyone say that they don't feed there hedgehog any fruit/vegi's. Just looking for more information because during bonding time I feed Dumbo quite a few dried mealworms (which he loves and attacks) and am now worried about the amount of them causing pooping issues... Please help I am so confused!

"Hedgehogs are missing a cecum which is a clue into the insect diet 
​in which hedgehogs evolved on. The cecum, located at the beginning 
​of the large intestine, is a pouch of bacteria that digests cellulose 
​(plant matter). Without a cecum, hedgehogs can’t properly digest 
​plant matter. If you take a look at an herbivore, a plant eating animal, 
​they have evolved to have a very large cecum. Nature tells us that if a 
​hedgehog was meant to be eating fruits and veggies as their source
​ of fiber, they would have evolved to have a cecum. 
​ 
Feeding your hedgehog fruits and vegetables can be dangerous. Where
​ the hedgehogs’ small intestine ends, the hedgehog is missing a valve 
​that prevents food in the large intestine from returning to the small intestine. 
​Undigested plant matter (fruits and veggies) can swish back and forth 
​between the small and large intestine and give your hedgehog a belly 
​ache or worse cause impaction. 
​ 
The insect eating hedgehog has a digestive enzyme called chitinase 
​which allows the hedgehog to utilize chitin (only found in the exoskeleton 
​of bugs) as their fiber source. They don't need fruits and veggies because 
​their dietary source of fiber comes from the crunchy outer layer of bugs."


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

I agree, it's not their main source of fiber. Nor is it likely a huge part of their diet in the wild. However, I really don't agree that it's as dangerous as she's insisting it is. You're not the first person to post about this because of getting a hedgehog from this breeder & being confused about this. Considering the number of people that do give their hedgehogs fruits & veggies, and the lack of problems we've had reported about it, I really don't think the claims made about the danger of this are backed up. While it's probable that they can't get nutrition from the plant matter as effectively as a herbivore, I do think they probably get at least a little nutrition from it. I just wouldn't recommend feeding them as a large part of the diet at all. My hedgehog is on a raw diet and I am including both fruit & veggies in it. Veggies will be 20% and fruit will only be 5%. Most of her diet is insects, invertebrates, and whole meat grinds (with organs & bones included).

The one thing I'm confused on is the second to last paragraph, about undigested food going back & forth between small & large intestine. That's not something I've heard before and I have no clue if that could be true or not. But I still think the likelihood of an impaction from fruits & veggies is much less likely than from freeze-dried insects. Again, I've never heard of anyone's hedgie (or even a friend of a friend's hedgie, or any passed on stories, anything) having an impaction from fruits or veggies. We have had at least a case or two of hedgehogs becoming impacted from freeze dried mealworms though. Canned, live, or frozen/thawed mealworms (and other insects) are much safer.

Edited to add something I forgot to mention: Most people that offer veggies alter them in some way - cooking, chopping finely, using baby food, etc. All of these things help break down the cellulose and make them easier to digest. This is why when people feed veggies to a dog (and expect the dog actually gain nutrition from them, not just using them as a filler to help with weight loss), it's recommended to do one of these things to help the dog absorb nutrients from the veggies. So it's very likely that feeding veggies in this way to hedgehogs also helps. Fruits tend to have thinner skins & less fiber anyway, so they're less likely to cause problems in the first place and I know there are plenty of reports of wild hedgehogs eating berries and fallen fruits.


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## nikki (Aug 28, 2008)

I'm sorry but one breeder saying that vegetable and fruits are bad doesn't negate the many many breeders that know that they are good for them. Wild hedgehogs are opportunistic ominvores which means they will eat pretty much anything....not just insects. 

Dried insects have caused bowel impaction in some hedgehogs and shouldn't be fed/


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## nikki (Aug 28, 2008)

Ok Kelsey!! quit reading my mind!! LOL


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## karma3299 (Apr 1, 2016)

I agree... I really liked the breeder I got him from but I did a lot of research before getting him and her website was the only one I'd seen expounding the evil of fruits or vegi's. The only food in her care sheet is the cat food she recommends with a supplement, a list of the types of nutrients to look for in a food if you want to go with a different brand and insects. That's it no meat/eggs/fruit/vegi's nothing. Being a first time hedgie owner I just want to do what's right for him. 

That being said I have started introducing him to foods and he has eaten a couple bites of strawberry, he nibbled on a piece of lettuce, took a taste of a carrot, but when he ate a piece of blackberry tonight he got this puckered look on his face and did a little anointing. But he went back for another bite and did it again. Does this mean he likes it or should I not give it to him again? 

I'm not giving him very much of anything because I'm just trying to find out what he will eat. 

I appreciate all the feedback you can give.


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## Artemis-Ichiro (Jan 22, 2016)

There is in the nutrition stickies at the top of the nutrition and diet one that talks about what you can give them and what to stay away from. That might help you.


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## Soyala_Amaya (Aug 1, 2011)

The annointing is fine, it was just probably more strongly flavored than the other things he tried. It's just a reaction to an interesting smell, it doesn't mean that they do or do not like something, just that it smells/tastes intriguing. 

Also, while the cecum does aid in digestion for herbivores, the transference of undigested material actually happens in animals WITH cecums who don't have healthy bowel florae. Without the correct bacteria in their guts to finish breaking down the plant fiber, the material can actually sit in the cecum and rot, killing the animal. It happens a lot with "rescued" wild bunnies who didn't have a chance to get enough bacteria from the mom before they were taken from the nest. (Professional rescuers will often keep domestic rabbits on hand to feed the babies little bits of adult rabbit poop, which is how the babies get the bacteria. Without the bacteria transfer, the "rescued" babies will die, because they can't digest their food.

In animal without a cecum, the matter will just pass as feces. There isn't a stopping off place like in herbivores.


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## twobytwopets (Feb 2, 2014)

I'm curious as to what this breeder feeds specifically. I remember finding a breeder that had this mindset but had a vendetta against peas specifically. 
I'm curious to know their diet because most if not all commercial foods have plant matter/veggie products.


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## karma3299 (Apr 1, 2016)

She feeds a mix of Kirkland Maintenance and Spikes plus mealworms.


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## twobytwopets (Feb 2, 2014)

So, as long as the plant material is in commercial food it's OK??? 
My quick Google search tells me both of those foods contain plant material.. Basically the only way her theory would hold water is if she feed raw and encouraged others to do so. Granted she would be doing that wrong.


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## shinydistraction (Jul 6, 2014)

I think this is a perfect example of why pet owners should always do their own independent research on any animal they bring home prior to obtaining it. Should you ask the breeder or pet store questions about behavior and care? Yes, absolutely. Should you take everything they say as the gospel truth? Probably not. And situations like these are exactly why. Some will give you the exact right info, others maybe slightly off, and still others may as well be speaking on a whole different subject for as much sense as they make. I think you'll also find a good heaping of common sense helps a bunch. If something just doesn't make sense, question it.


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## karma3299 (Apr 1, 2016)

I did do a ton of research online but you know how things can be on the Internet. When I got him I was impressed about how much she seemed to know she focused in on how she only does scholarly research blah blah blah. Not the more and more I did independently and reading the forums here I did have to question what she said. If what she claims is true then wouldn't there be hundreds of owners here upset about sick and dying hogs? That is precisely why I ask the questions and then make sure the answers make sense. Now could what she said have happened to a few animals....

I did want to trust my breeder's word as gospel, and think she would know better than a first time owner--that's why I went to a breeder and not a pet store or someone on Craigslist. However I still kept my mind open and am still learning by the day.


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## Kalandra (Aug 25, 2008)

> However I still kept my mind open and am still learning by the day.


Best thing you can do.

So off topic story, but hopefully reinforcement to break the rules sometimes. I got my first hedgehog ages ago. I was told to feed high fat foods (kitten kibble), travel carriers were the best cages (they didn't need light since they were nocturnal ,and the small space helps them feeling secure), wheels were never mentioned and I never saw any available for the first few years, and there was even mention back then that they may NEED to hibernate to stay healthy......

Hedgehogs did die. Fatty liver disease due to an inappropriate diet took far too many even though their owners were following the "instructions" provided. We learned to do better.

Question everything and never stop researching/learning. I am still learning.


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