# Beligerent Hedgie



## Erin132 (Feb 4, 2012)

Hey so sorry I haven't posted in a while.

First off just let me say I understand they aren't all going to be sunshine and rainbows but this is more for his sake than me wanting the perfect pet.
So at the beginning of February I rescued 2 hedgies, a male and a female albino from a woman who was going to have them destroyed. My first concerns with them were health issues but as they've settled, I'm having some behavioural problems with the male.

Nymeria, the female, is fine. She lets me pick her up and although she was nervous at first will now let me hold her and scratch her chin. Ghost, the male, is a little terror. He hisses, and huffs and puffs at me when I even enter the room and he's awake. If I have any skin near him he will bit me. Hard. I don't use any lotions or anything on my skin so I don't think it's because I smell nice. I was worried he thought I was being threatening and was biting as a kind of warning, so I just left my hands down to my sides and he still wandered over and bit me haha. He even bit my shoe once :lol: I thought perhaps maybe it was just that he wasn't used to being handled and was scared, but he has actually gotten worse the longer I have had him. 

Aside from the biting, my main worry is how anxious he gets when I handle him. He hisses and huffs and spikes and snaps at me, but worst of all I can feel his little heart pounding when I hold him. He will actually flail to try and get away. I wouldn't care too much and just accept that he's like that but I need to be able to handle him to clip his nails, sort his ears and remove poop boots etc. I've handled him the exact same way pretty much as the female and she's lovely. 

Is there anything else I can do, aside from blowing in his face etc that can help him relax around me? He has fallen asleep on me a few times wrapped in his blanket but the second he remembers where he is he goes mental again. 

Thanks for all the help and sorry my post is so long


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## sublunary (Jan 21, 2012)

I don't really have any advice, but i feel the need to post and tell you I LOVE the names!

I hope you get Ghost to calm down for you. Are you putting a worn shirt in his cage to help him adjust to your smell?


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## Erin132 (Feb 4, 2012)

Hahaha thanks, gotta love A Song of Ice and Fire for inspiration!  yeah I've put in the t shirt! I take him out every day as well but he's just so angry!! Luckily I don't really mind being chewed too much. At least they don't break the skin! Hopefully he'll get over it. He's SUCH a drama queen.. :roll: Poor little guy! I wish he'd chat to Nymeria and realise that I'm not that bad :lol:


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## Rainy (Jul 27, 2011)

Have you taken him to the vet yet? He may have some health problems or pain that makes him aggressive. Notice anything unusual like odd poop, blood, vomit, anything out of the ordinary?


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## Erin132 (Feb 4, 2012)

Yeah I took him to the vet when I first got him, he was given the all clear! He just wasn't being fed good food so I changed that. Nothing else has changed in the meanwhile so I dunno :/


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## Kalandra (Aug 25, 2008)

Everything you describe tells me you have a very scared/defensive boy that needs a lot of patience and understanding. Do not force yourself on him. When he begins to flail, understand that he is scared, back off. If you are trying to hold him in your hands, trying to stroke his quills, or doing something to him at that time, stop. Give him a little time and space, and try again. I’m not saying put him back in his cage, but to just respect that he is scared. 

Why are you blowing in his face?

He needs time to figure out that he is safe; that what you are trying to do with him isn’t going to hurt him. This takes time, and it can take a LOT of time. I’ve had rescues that took over 6 months before we really got to see their face. I have one now that I took in around the same time as you. He is EXTREMELY defensive. I was happy when it only took him 45 minutes to decide to uncurl. That was 45 minutes of him sitting on my lap, under a fleece blanket, with me trying to not move, talk, or otherwise disturb him. At least he isn’t like some others who NEVER uncurled when a human was about and thankfully he hasn’t tried to bite yet.

Recommendation:
Hold him in a snuggle bag, or place him on your chest with a blanket over you and him. Don’t touch him. Allow him to uncurl and start to explore. If he will sleep while on you, BRILLIANT! This is an excellent sign. Even if he gets defensive when he wakes up, he is at least comfortable enough with humans that he will relax enough to sleep. Once you feel he is starting to settle, put your hand under the blanket with him. DON’T touch him initially. Let him just get used to it being closer to him. Once he starts to seem more comfortable, trying laying your hand on him. Don’t pet him. 

Offer mealworms! Only give him mealworms when he is out with you. He will quickly associate these tasty treats with you.


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## Erin132 (Feb 4, 2012)

Yeah I guess it will just take time. I haven't actually blown in his face at all. I don't like the idea but it was suggested a few times as an effort to stop biting. Thanks for the tips, I guess it's just a waiting game. Hopefully he'll calm down. Thanks for the advice though, I was worried that there was something I was missing. So good to hear your story too  Guess I shall just carry on tipping away. It's just hard when I need to do things like sort out his nails and ears and I can't do it at the moment because he's so anxious.


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## Kalandra (Aug 25, 2008)

I see blowing in the face and other methods suggested for stopping biting, but I had a hedgehog who if you tried those things it just made him bite harder. And it made him even madder. With him, the good old, avoid being bitten was the best option, but once he got you, I just let him bite and tried to not react. It worked, he actually looked up at me confused once.

I do hope you finally manage to make progress with your boy. Grouchy, defensive hedgehogs have a special place in my heart. I've taken in a few and have managed to get them to turn around. Its is a long road and one which can be very frustrating sometimes. 

You did mention you changed his diet. Have you noticed any quill loss yet? I've had a couple who had poor diets before and once switched they went through a quilling as they grew in healthier quills. It can cause a step back in progress for a bit like it does with a baby going through quilling.


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## lilchris28 (Mar 4, 2012)

I'm glad I found this thread. i'm having a similar issue with Wesley. He is doing almost the exact same this, minus the flailing. He just curls in a tight ball and keeps hissing for what seems like forever. Is it better to hold them multiple times a day or only once a day? What if they wont take mealies from you?


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## lilchris28 (Mar 4, 2012)

I'm glad I found this thread. i'm having a similar issue with Wesley. He is doing almost the exact same this, minus the flailing. He just curls in a tight ball and keeps hissing for what seems like forever. Is it better to hold them multiple times a day or only once a day? What if they wont take mealies from you?


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## Kalandra (Aug 25, 2008)

With Ollie, I started out with putting mealworms in a bowl in his cage for a while. It let him get the taste for mealworms. I stopped putting them in at night with him, and now he only gets mealies when I'm around. Next step: I started putting him in his cage and placing the mealworms in next to him (still in the bowl). Then moving my hand away but continuing to sit quietly next to his cage. He'd eventually uncurl and gobble them up. Later we moved to on my lap with the mealworms still in the shallow bowl. And now we are at the I drop them in front of him, he huffs, puffs and eventually eats them. After the first mealworm, he doesn't usually curl back up now, quills always stay raised, and he's always ready to snap shut at a moment's notice and he does huff and pop when my hand gets near (his clicking is far less), but once he realizes there is a mealworm in front of him, he is on it.

Its been a huge help in getting him to uncurl much faster for me. 

How you go about it will depend on the hedgehog. This has worked pretty well with Ollie. With another, the process was much much slower.

Again, I will go back to the use a snuggle bag method too though. Ollie has learned about the snuggle bag and he is a huge fan of it. He will uncurl and lay down in the bag now, and has even started to walk into it on his own when out on my bed.


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## Erin132 (Feb 4, 2012)

Thanks so much for all the advice! I stuck with it and put a few more Tshirts in his cage in addition to the ones that were there and now today for the first time ever he let me rub him under the chin without hissing or spiking!! He still hates being picked up but we're getting there


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## Kalandra (Aug 25, 2008)

Good job. A little patience can have big rewards. Keep at it and I bet he will come around more.

I was tickled tonight when I got a picture of Ollie's nose. Ok I got more pictures than that, as I was trying to get a photo of a red spot on his face. But look at that cute little nose!

[attachment=0:32fq41rt]ollie.jpg[/attachment:32fq41rt]

Yeh, I'm just happy to see his nose. It means he is uncurled and he didn't curl back up while I was clicking photos of him trying to see his spot... progress! He got his mealies after photo time.


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## Erin132 (Feb 4, 2012)

Aw brilliant! Ollie is absolutely lovely! Look at his little nose!! I got a lovely picture of ghost in the sun the other day  I wish I had my camera on my now he's stretched out fast asleep on my lap lol

http://i.imgur.com/F45rV.jpg


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## Kalandra (Aug 25, 2008)

Awesome photo! Ghost is gorgeous.


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## sami_cutie (Apr 4, 2012)

I'm new to the forums, but this is precisely the subject that I came looking for help with.
My little Rocco has been "belligerent" (although that's a mild way of saying it) ever since we got him. Now, he's just had his first birthday (April Fool's... go figure), and we've had him since he was about 8 weeks old. So, for about 10 months, we've been taking him out with us pretty much every day (or at least every other day) and he is STILL angry and vicious. He bites. A lot. And not the "I want to taste you because you smell good" kind of bite, but rather the "I want you to die a slow, horrible death" kind of bite. And I don't know what you guys are talking about when you say their bites don't draw blood... Rocco's does all the time. And the bite wounds take a good few weeks to heal completely because they have a habit of getting infected (because he has a dirty little mouth... lol). We even went to the vet and had him neutered in the hopes that this would decrease his testosterone levels enough for him to be somewhat nicer. No luck.
Now, after reading the blogs, I realize that the fact that he'll sit on my lap and fall asleep on me and whatnot is good news, but he's done this since the beginning. So, really, there's been virtually no change in the past 10 months. He still hates to be touched... anywhere. And, while he hates baths, this is the only place where he'll be happy to see our hands (as they're his life preservers), although last time he showed his disapproval with one of the worst bites I've ever gotten from him (I had to shake him pretty violently to make him let go, letting out a loud yelp in the process and dropping him back into the bathtub). Pretty sure I'll have that scar for life (ripped the side of my hand open a little).
We've bought him treats that he won't eat and we've never had luck with mealworms. The only thing he likes is beef, although after he eats it, he balls up again as if to remind us how much he still hates the world.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. We're at our wits' ends with this little devil. If he weren't so cute, we'd have kicked him to the curb by now.
Thanks!
Sam


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## Erin132 (Feb 4, 2012)

oh god that sounds terrible!! I guess I'm lucky that Ghost hasn't been able to break the skin! I'm just trying to think what I did with him that helped.
- He didn't like mealies at first but after I put them in his food bowl and he tasted them he got addicted, so I try give him a few tasty treats to try get him to associate me with good things lol
- He doesn't like being picked up but I've found sitting with him on my lap while I study and stuff seemed to work well. I sometimes put my hand into the bag now and just rest it next to him in a non-threatening way and although he'd huff a bit a first he soon falls asleep on it. 
- With the biting I just tried to ignore it. His bites are also the "I want you to die painfully variety" haha I can see how doing that would be much harder with bites that break the skin though :/ I just try to make sure that I don't "attack" him with my hand. Because I've had previous pets that have almost "tested" me by biting so I try very hard not to flinch or draw away, although that's not always easy. With a hamster I had previously I used gloves until he realized that biting didn't get him put back in his cage anymore and he tamed down amazingly after that. I don't know if something like that would work in your case though.
- The last thing I do is put several of my old recently worn tshirts into his cage. For ages he would completely avoid them and try to sleep anywhere that didn't have one but just recently he has started sleeping in them and I think that has made a huge difference.

Sorry I couldn't be of more help. I'd say you must have tried all of these by now and be at your wits end!


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## Lussy (Feb 3, 2012)

oh my God!!
I was sure that those few bites that Unariccia is giving to us every now and then only when we deeply annoy her in order to bond were bad!!!!!!!!
imagine that!!!! 
compared to what u described is nothing!! and still they mostly seem "what-a-huge worm-is-in-front-of-me-now" kind of bites (smelling at our fingers)![attachment=0:2hb4arhu]roaaarrrr.jpg[/attachment:2hb4arhu]
anyway...the only advice I might give you is to figure out what Rocco loves about food, toys, cuddles and do ur best in making him associate these good things with your being around!!
it takes a lot of time and patience...we r still working on bonding and let Unariccia accept our caressing but I'm afraid it will take a bit longer yet...don't give up!!! Rocco is lovely, by the way


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## sami_cutie (Apr 4, 2012)

Thanks for the replies. And I agree... he is super duper cute. 
Rocco has been sleeping on an old T-shirt since we got him (that and my husband's socks too for a while... not sure how he can stand them, but he slept on them for a good few months!). As for the mealies, we've tried leaving some in his food dish and they just ended up dying in there and he ate around them. Very strange. Any other insects that any of you have found they like?
Also, we recently got him a little pen for while he's out with us (it was actually meant for hamsters, but apparently hamsters can maneuver their way out, but hedgies can't!). So we try taking him out and just leaving him in there for a while with his wheel, his blankie, and some treats, but he just sits in his ball the whole time and eventually falls asleep. Does this seem like something we should continue to do?
We also put him on the coffee table (with nothing on it) so that he has nowhere to hide (saw this trick online to force them to interact). If I put my hands flat at the edge of the coffee table, he'll actually seek out and walk across my hands onto my lap so he has somewhere to hide (and no biting!). This is the best type of interaction I've had with him, but he still hates to be touched (for some reason, especially when he's pooped and we try to clean it before he can walk in it... that's the time he likes to back up and ball up the most... so that the poop spreads and gets all over him, of course). I'm pretty sure this is progress, so I'm not complaining, but it just feels like I'll never be able to touch him without him freaking out... even when he's at his "happiest". I get so jealous when I see videos online where people are rubbing their hedgie's belly or holding and petting them without a freakout occurring. I hope this will happen sometime down the line for us...


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## Hillybean (Jun 10, 2010)

Not all hedgehogs like to be pet. If he is biting you when you are petting him, that could be the cause. Some hedgies, just plain don't like it. Having him willing to be out and exploring on you with no aggression is awesome..he very well could be an explorer and not a snuggler.

One of my hedgies also dislikes baths, but he had never had one before I got him..so he is still getting use to them. I also don't think hedgies in general like baths. We are working on petting, but honestly he hates it. The only real petting is done around his front legs, when he is exploring...so very quick. He lays all of quills down when exploring, and is a sweety over all though.

Dubia roachs..is an insect I choose to give over mealies and my hedgies love them!


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## GoodandPlenty (Feb 4, 2012)

Their individual traits and habits are all so funny; as is how they can change over time. Sophie isn't a biter. She's bitten me only a very a few times, mostly 'with cause', and not at all in a mean way. She hardly ever balls up or raises her quills in a serious way. I work hard not to 'surprise' her in any way when waking her up or reaching for her. That's an important thing I think.

She's happy to be petted most of the time. Once in a while I'll feel her twitching and I'll stop, but she loves sleeping with me. Because she loves sleeping and because she often zonks me out at the same time, I've taken to late afternoon naps. She'll burrow in under my neck and then as far under my chest as she can get and we'll nap for an hour or so. When I wake up, she's flat as a pancake from burrowing in under me, but she seems to love it. Go figure.

As comfortable as she is being handled and sleeping right with me, she Does Not Like her belly exposed At All. She's fine with my cupping her belly when she's sleeping, but as far as holding her up and rubbing her belly or showing off her belly side - it's a big, "No!" Maybe she'll loosen up over time, but lots of animals are like that; the vulnerability is too much for their comfort level. She's the same way with her legs being touched; also common with many animals.

She's usually only active when she's alone these days so I don't see much play time, even when I get her up at night. She used to like her runaround time and go, go, go. Seems to have moved past that stage and now she'll find me, root her way under my shirt and sleep through play time. Still runs over two hours a night though, so plenty of exercise.

Progress on the foot baths. Yay. She may be getting used to them, but I've increased the amount of water by a lot, from an inch or so to several inches and really think that has made the most difference for some reason. With just a little water, she probably thinks that getting away from it is easy and becomes quite insistent. With enough water that there really isn't anyplace to go; for whatever reason, she takes that pretty calmly. She hasn't gotten a full bath yet, but sometimes I'll give her quills a few brushes with the toothbrush. She seems to like that. Maybe I'll get her to where foot baths are like going to the spa for pampering.

Still a little squirrelly on nail clipping, but because they get checked every other day, if she gets clipped, it's only going to be two or three clips at most.


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## Kalandra (Aug 25, 2008)

So... How about some updates? How is everyone doing with getting their defensive hedgies to trust them?

For those of you who don't follow chins-n-hedgies.com here is a couple of images of Ollie. He is still very distrusting, but we are making some really good progress. The last 2 weeks he has started to uncurl when on his back and let me see his face, tummy and legs. It takes him a bit to do it, but he does it and it makes the morning health check go sooooo much faster. 

He also is starting to open up and not curl up to every little noise or movement in the room. He always curls up when I pick him up, but he is now uncurling in my hands. 

Here are a couple of images of him actually starting to look like a hedgehog instead of a prickly ball of quills.


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