# I think I'm done...



## Giubo (Mar 7, 2019)

...for now. I think this should work. Wire mesh top with hest lamp on top, plus igloo and my old shirt, water dish (not stopper) super healthy cat food and insects, fake plant with insects hidden in it, soft paper shavings, dryer tube with sharp ends duct taped connecting to the other tote with air holes on the back for the wheel, pellet sub under the wheel. Plus, for a pen my daughter's kiddy pool and my room. How's it look?












































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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

It looks okay, not to sure on that fake plant though, those leaves have pretty pointy tips and I'd worry about it poking an eye on it, specially if you your using it for hiding insects. 
I coud be wrong but it looks very pointy, and most times that means sharp to.


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## Giubo (Mar 7, 2019)

Woah really? I'll take it out then. What do they do when they run into leaves and sticks...and glass...in the wild?

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## nikki (Aug 28, 2008)

They get poked in the eye and may end up blind. You have to remember that their lifespan in the wild is maybe 2 years, if they make it to adulthood. The only reason they live longer in captivity is because we make their environment as safe as possible.


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## Emc (Nov 18, 2018)

I also don't think plastic plants are even mildly comparable to something the likes of a stick or a leaf (and I doubt they would encounter glass in the wild, if at all). Plastic can be pretty sharp; leaves and sticks... not so much. You can absolutely offer them some leaves to rummage around in, or the odd branch if you'd wish - not that they'd likely pay any attention to the latter, but some will probably anoint with it. I would agree with the others that removing the plastic plant is best. Plastic plants like that can also shed, and your hog could potentially also rip something off it and accidentally ingest it, which will cause a whole other array of problems - accidental pokes aside.

If this is a temporary enclosure (and i assume it is, because you mentioned "for now"?), then it looks fine for me. In the long run though, I'm sure your hog would appreciate a larger enclosure. Generally, it is advised they have 8ft^2 of space at a minimum. If a lid is a must, the midwest habitat (which has a lid option) is a pretty popular choice.


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## belties (Oct 2, 2018)

Looks good! Just make sure the dryer tube is very secure. For their size hedgies are very strong and love to root ,dig and push on things. You would not want an escaped hedgie!


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## Giubo (Mar 7, 2019)

Good to know, I'll make sure any plastic plant I put in is super soft. 

I thought they lived 6-7 years in the wild?

Is an enclosure ever really finished? I just want to make sure It is enough to keep him happy for a while.

In that case I will duct tape the whole tube and tape it to the bins. I was told their teeth aren't very strong and they can't really chew through plastic, is that right? Some of the enclosures recommended have canvas bottoms.

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## belties (Oct 2, 2018)

Ive never heard of any chewing out but they do like to push on things. Ours ,if she can get her little head between something will push and push to try and get through. She pushes so hard she lifts her back feet off the ground. She can be very determined.


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## Giubo (Mar 7, 2019)

Hahaha too cute. I just duct taped it to the bins it's pretty secure.

I also added a small UTH to the side of his tote too. One with a timer for nights only.

It's his permanent set up but I like things I can add too. 

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## belties (Oct 2, 2018)

OK so Im dumb, what is a UTH ?


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## Giubo (Mar 7, 2019)

Under Tank Heater but they are more functional on the sides of tanks where they can actually heat the air. 

But the one I'm using is old and small so it won't melt the plastic. 

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## belties (Oct 2, 2018)

Thanks I learned my 1 thing for the day! Does it have a way to regulate the temp? Hedgies need a consitant temp in the 76-80 deg. F range. Most of us use CHE's (ceramic heat element) hooked up to a thermostat (temp controller) like the reptile owners use.


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## Giubo (Mar 7, 2019)

I have the ceramic heat bulb over the hideout on 24/7. The acurite (as much as it annoys me) is decent in that it gives the low and high for 24hrs. And my lows were reading 61 at night, then I changed rooms, and it went to 68 I'm hoping the UTH on a timer at night will get it up to the 70-80 range. If it gets too hot he has the other tote he can go in where it will be cooler. Eventually I'll redirect the chimeny effect of the lamp back down. But I'm not there yet. Since it's only my 3rd night with him I'm still getting things regulated.








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## Aj.t (Jan 29, 2019)

Larger species can generally live 4-7 years in the wild, but smaller species such as the APH can live shorter lifespans.


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## belties (Oct 2, 2018)

Hedgie butt ,cute, that means that he is calm and comfortable ! It does take some time to get your set up working right. Just wanted to make sure you knew about the temp thing. We would not want him to try to hibernate. Most of them prefer a warmer temp than what we do. Ours was not very active at nite at 72-76f but when we raised it to 76-80 she started wheeling and eating more at nite. It takes a while to find out what they like best.


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## Giubo (Mar 7, 2019)

Aj.t said:


> Larger species can generally live 4-7 years in the wild, but smaller species such as the APH can live shorter lifespans.


Ahhh that makes sense.

And yeah that's what I figured, he is starting to trust me more. I know he is super active because my cats haven't been sleeping with me at night, they keep sitting in front of his tote watching him like TV. It's why I need to have a lid.

Frankly as far as conditions go he is relatively easy. I don't have to worry about humidity with him.

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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

One thing I would say is that in the long run you may want to add a few more bins to make the floor space larger, give him more areas to explore, when they are smaller is not so bad, but once they get bigger they like having more exploring space. But I'm pretty sure I read before you was going to keep adding.

You said something about only putting soft fake plants in there. I dont think you really need any fake plants in there. As said not only will a lot of types poke eyes, but a lot do shed and some even smell, and again if your putting insects on/in/around it, then it will pick up the inscect smell and they may try to eat it. These fake plants contain all sorts of chemicals, I just wouldnt have any fake plants at all. 

Personally if your worried about the cats getting in with no lid then I'd stop them going the cage at night when your not watching. Cats as well as dogs can tip that type of cage and it may open and then the cats can do who knows what and hurt it even kill it.


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## Emc (Nov 18, 2018)

I wouldn't add fake plants, period - whether theyre soft or hard plastic. My concern is less about how pokey they are, and more about the fact that they can shed and if the hedgehog were to bite them, they could potentially bite some of the plastic off and accidentally ingest it. They wont be able to chew out of a plastic bin like you're using, but they would absolutely be able to chew off little pieces of plastic on a plant - and by hiding insects on it, you're actually further encouraging him to do so. If you want to offer plans, use live plants (something that will do fine in a drier environment; like a spider plant - just double check any plants you plan on using to make sure theyre safe before hand!) so that way if he does accidentally ingest it, it wont harm him in any way.


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## Giubo (Mar 7, 2019)

I'm getting a basement going for him. I'm going to set this up as a naturalistic/bioactive to see how he likes it. Sand, eco earth, frog moss, and some oak/boxelder leaves, a rock and a cork bark tunnel with some Isopods. I think the ramp is big enough for him to fit through. If I can get the bioactive basement going I may make his whole enclosure like that.
















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## Aj.t (Jan 29, 2019)

Omg this hedgehog is getting the immaculate collection lol. That’s such a cool idea! I would only make sure the igloo is pushed a bit more to the side so he can use that side to climb back up; with ferrets and guinea pigs it’s easy for them to kinda flip around to the front of the opening, but it’ll be way easier for you little guy to reach to the side! I need to be more experimental like this haha


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## Chowder (Jan 28, 2019)

Have you researched about the sand? I would be worried about it getting in the eyes.


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## belties (Oct 2, 2018)

Or boy parts.


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## Giubo (Mar 7, 2019)

I think I'm done...again...kind of...

I filled his basement today. I have no illusion that it will stay this neat for long but depending on how active he is down there I may mix up the substrate myself. I plan to add more leaves and my isopods eventually, as well as some ventilation and possible heating pad but we will see.

I'm modelling the naturalistic vibe off of the "hedgehogsofasgards" and not to worried about sand, he does have eyelids and a sheath and it's pretty close the species natural habitat. However I'd be less concerned if could give him a little pool to swim in (might be the next project). Most people's experience was that their hedgies feet health improved with natural stuff and their stomach hairs became softer as well as an increase in activity level.

I like the idea of bioactive and naturalistic enclosures more than anything because its real and stimulating. Ill keep an eye out for issues and take it out if necessary. But if he is more active and spending time down there I will turn the upstairs into bioactive and take out the plastic cave for something better.

I also added a little edge to the ramp to keep the paper stuff from sliding in and to stop him from sunmersaulting. The other modification is the PVC tube. Looks much cleaner and it's more stable and easier to clean. I'm bummed though I started using silicone but ran out and had to finish with hot glue. I'll go back over it and seal it with silicone though.


























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## Aj.t (Jan 29, 2019)

Great job!


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## Giubo (Mar 7, 2019)

Thanks. Update, Giubo had a party in the basement last night. His tracks are everywhere (pic). I checked him this morning; he did have some sand on his sheath but no poop on his feet . So. I took out about half the sand and added the cocohusk on top. I'll check him tomorrow to see if that solved the sandy sheath problem. If not I'll probably take out more sand add even more leaves and mix up the sub instead.








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## nikki (Aug 28, 2008)

You need to put a lot of ventilation holes in the bottom bin for air circulation.


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## Emc (Nov 18, 2018)

I agree that the bottom bin needs more ventilation, but I'd recommend mesh over holes. Holes generally provide very poor ventilation, and can still have issues with precipitation build up; you'd need _a lot_ of them to have adequate ventilation... as in, the entire bottom bin would essentially be covered in tiny holes. Mesh is easier; you just cut a 'window' out of the sides of the bin, and you can use nuts & screws to hold the mesh in place. Window mesh is also an option, and can be glued down using just hot glue - but only if you don't have any predators (like a dog, or cat) because it's fairly easy to break through compared to wire mesh.


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## Giubo (Mar 7, 2019)

nikki said:


> You need to put a lot of ventilation holes in the bottom bin for air circulation.


I've got this peeve about other people telling me my needs. I'll read that as "you could improve your enclosure by adding ventilation on the bottom bin"

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## Giubo (Mar 7, 2019)

Emc said:


> I agree that the bottom bin needs more ventilation, but I'd recommend mesh over holes. Holes generally provide very poor ventilation, and can still have issues with precipitation build up; you'd need _a lot_ of them to have adequate ventilation... as in, the entire bottom bin would essentially be covered in tiny holes. Mesh is easier; you just cut a 'window' out of the sides of the bin, and you can use nuts & screws to hold the mesh in place. Window mesh is also an option, and can be glued down using just hot glue - but only if you don't have any predators (like a dog, or cat) because it's fairly easy to break through compared to wire mesh.


I am going to guess you have never lived in Utah before. I quite literally put substrate in that was sand castle consistency, and it was bone dry in 24hrs.

I really do hear you about the ventilation, and I do understand it comes from a place of good intentions for my hedgehog. But did you happen to notice the lid to the top bin?

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## Giubo (Mar 7, 2019)

Remember how i said I was done? Lol seeing a pattern yet? I updated gym and added another naturalistic basement. I'll add compost and the cuc tomorrow. (Don't give me the cuc lecture, my hermit crab tank is about to have a die off anyway). Total length is about 5 ft total width about 1.5ft. around 10sqft total ish. I'll do the math when I'm "done".

Giubo has opted to sleep in the basement every night despite his lamp being upstairs. I added a heating pad in the corner where he sleeps to be on the safe side. He has been much more active lately. I don't think he has discovered the other basement yet.








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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

When they are stacked even if you have mech on that top lid that generally only ventelates that top one but doesnt do much for the bottom one, by having either one large mesh window on the bottom, or a few mesh winows in the middle of the 2 longer sides, you provide better ventaltion for the bottom box.
Better bentaltion on both those basments would be ideal, and make it a lot better.

Also that other box with the white lid, ideally needs to be the same as the purple lid, and to be sure that other connected white box has the righ heat a heat lamp like on the other one would be a good idea.


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## Emc (Nov 18, 2018)

Giubo said:


> I am going to guess you have never lived in Utah before. I quite literally put substrate in that was sand castle consistency, and it was bone dry in 24hrs.
> 
> I really do hear you about the ventilation, and I do understand it comes from a place of good intentions for my hedgehog. But did you happen to notice the lid to the top bin?
> 
> Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk


Nope, never lived in Utah - but I do know the importance of adequate ventilation. 

Obviously, by the lid of the top bin, you know how to cut out a window and mesh an opening. The tiny little square that leads to the bottom bin is not adequate ventilation and it is my _suggestion_ that you improve it by doing the same as you have done to the lid of the top bin to the sides of the 'basement' bin. Otherwise I can see potential issues with stale air here; mesh really would be the best option to take.


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## Giubo (Mar 7, 2019)

Giubo said:


> Remember how i said I was done? Lol seeing a pattern yet?[/QUOTE
> 
> Safe to assume you haven't seen the pattern yet.
> 
> Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk


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## Mecki (Nov 4, 2017)

Been following this thread.

Giubo, you stated " I'll add compost and the cuc tomorrow. (Don't give me the cuc lecture, my hermit crab tank is about to have a die off anyway)." 
What is cuc? sorry, but I don't know what that refers to.

I also wasn't understanding your reply_ today _reiterating that this is a work in progress. That comment didn't seem to acknowledge the posts immediately prior by Emc and Ria about ventilation, or were/are you dismissing the suggestions? Just trying to follow the trains of thought here.


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

I'm guessing that cuc is short for clean up crew


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