# Losing battle with an overweight hedgehog. PLEASE HELP!!!!



## Skittles (Aug 2, 2012)

Skittles is 2 years old and her entire life I have been fighting to keep her weight down. She is currently on "green pea and duck reduced calorie formula" http://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/pr...ID=27&category=Ultra+Premium+Dry+Cat+Formulas
as well as "Wellness healthy weight"
http://www.wellnesspetfood.com/product-details.aspx?pet=cat&pid=20#guaranteed-analysis
I was thinking about replacing the green pea and duck with "chicken soup for the cat lover soul reduced calorie"
http://www.chickensoupforthepetloverssoul.com/products/cats/dry_food/adult_cat_light_formula/
as it is 1.5% less fat (I've been to a couple pet stores and haven't found it yet). I also have made meatballs to try and fill her up. On this current routine she has lost weight, she was actually looking really good! Now she has a big bump between her shoulders and she is looking heavier than before!!! I have not changed her diet at all, she gets 1/2 tbsp of each food each night and a meatball every few nights. Occasionally she'll get veggie baby food as a treat. I have tried giving her insects, she wants nothing to do with them. Her food is always finished off completely no matter how much food she gets. 
She used to be in a rabbit home from petsmart, so it wasn't very big but it worked. A few months ago I upgraded her to a 2x3 C&C cage, she also has the cake topper wheel from Larry (I forget what it's called) but she does NOT use it!!! I have a bike computer on it and it hasn't moved in a very long time, she used to at least run a little on it. I also have a playpen that is also about 2X3 that she will play with a toilet paper roll and has strips of fabric, a car, cat ball a couple stuffies. She really doesn't care about anything but the toilet paper roll, which she absolutely loves!!!! She has a chance to play in there every day but lately she just wants to sleep. Just an added note that she loves the outdoors, but I live in Alberta, Canada so it isn't always possible to get her outside, I found some Chia seeds at a health food store so I'm currently growing her an indoor "grassy field" to play in. (Her nails are constantly cut) As far as what I've read I've done everything right, whenever there is an overweight hedgie post it's all about proper food/ wheel/ exercise. Which as far as I can tell I'm doing right. Which unfortunately leads me to wonder if there is something physically wrong with her.
I'm at an absolute loss as to what could be wrong/ how to motivate her. I'm open to all suggestions, we just really need help because right now she is not on a good path.
Thank you for taking the time to read all of this


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## shetland (Sep 2, 2008)

I will let the experience members give you the advice you need concerning your questions. I just want to say I have watched your stories and comments concerning Skittles for a long time now. It is so nice to see someone who truly cares about their hedgie and is always so concerned about trying to promote better health and quality of life for their little one.


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## abbys (Oct 13, 2012)

> I will let the experience members give you the advice you need concerning your questions.


Well if Shetland doesn't count as an experienced member, I don't know how much help I'll be...

Could you take a picture of the bump you mentioned? I think I know what you're talking about but I just want to be sure.

It does sound like you're doing everything right. Mixing in a reduced calorie food is what my vet recommended when Piglet was a bit "fluffy" and it worked really well for him.

Has she ever used he wheel, or did she recently stop? How long has she been re-gaining weight? If she seems to be gaining suddenly with no explanation, I would take her to the vet. Also because you mentioned that lately all she wants to do is sleep, that makes me think it may not be related to her diet.


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## Skittles (Aug 2, 2012)

I'll take a picture and post later when she's not sleeping. It has taken a few months for her to regain the weight. I'm just confused because when I first had her I had her on a bit higher fat food and just gave her a bunch, never paid much attention to how much. Than I realized the error and changed all that and she was doing really good on this exact diet, so I don't understand why now she's gaining weight on it. When I first got her she had a flying saucer wheel (HUGE regret, but anyhow) she was getting a bit heavier and it was trying to tip on her, so I got one of Larry's wheels. Having said that she has never been a big runner, she is actually quite the lazy bum and always has been. The only activity she really likes is playing in the grass or with her toilet paper roll, which I would give to her in her cage as she's proven to be quite the expert but I did read about one hedgie passing away during unsupervised play and has no interest in a cut one because it doesn't get stuck on her head. She did play for over an hour, maybe even two this morning (I didn't time it but we were doing a water change on the fish tank and that takes awhile), so I guess when she's interested in playing she will! I'm not sure how long people usually have out in the playpen


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## Skittles (Aug 2, 2012)

I should also add I have a scale but don't really weigh her much because everyone always says it depends on the hedgehog so I just base it looks mostly. I've spent alot of time looking at the shapes of hedgies in this forum to understand what shape one should be and go from there


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## GoodandPlenty (Feb 4, 2012)

I'm going to bullet-point this in an effort to make it easier to follow.

1. The three foods you've linked to in the OP are good. I've used all three brands.

2.


> ". . . big bump between her shoulders . . ."


Not enough information for me to comment. Fat? Injury? Other? Should a vet see this? I can't say.

3.


> ". . . upgraded her to a 2x3 C&C cage. . ." ". . . cake topper wheel . . ."


Very good!

4.


> ". . . bike computer . . .hasn't moved. . ."


Hmmm.? (Excellent to have solid data, even if that data is zero, zero, zero, zero.) Sophie was a huge runner as a baby; three hours a night, every night. Her running plummeted to less than one hour a night (possibly related to a uterine condition - bleeding). Running is up some, over an hour a night these days. Average speed remains down. I continue to monitor.

What you need to try to get at is why she won't run at all. Any changes in the room, for example. Sophie will not run if there is any light at all at night, or if she doesn't think that she is completely alone.

Maybe 'play run' with her a bit to remind her the wheel is there.?

If there is an activity she likes, try to let her do it a lot.

5.


> "I should also add I have a scale but don't really weigh her much because everyone always says it depends on the hedgehog so I just base it looks mostly. I've spent alot of time looking at the shapes of hedgies in this forum to understand what shape one should be and go from there"


Data. Data. Data. IMO, you should weigh weekly. More than that and the data is skewed by insignificant variances. Less than that doesn't give you enough data points to follow trends. Judging by shape is helpful, but in a limited way. You need numbers to go with what you think you see.

6. Sophie went through a long period of not weighing enough. She was a big runner and just would not eat enough. Over time, I was able to get her weight up with higher fat and higher protein foods. It was a lot of trouble. She ate the same amounts of food, but was getting more energy in those amounts and we did okay.

7. Because her running is well below what it used to be (and probably also related to her being sick), Sophie has been gaining weight and I am now trying to level that off. She isn't overweight, but she has been trending up. Based on my weekly data from her weigh-ins, my nightly data from her wheel, and my nightly data from her food consumption - I know that I need to tweak her diet a little bit now in order to avoid her becoming overweight and having to make major adjustments later.

For Sophie, under about 320 grams, she feels and looks a bit thin. But at about 350 grams, she is seeming to be a bit solid and certainly less 'sleek'.

8. After all the trouble of putting weight on her, oy vey, now I've had to research keeping her weight down. What I found was that knocking down fat and protein with kibbles was a huge problem. The low-fat stuff is not low at all and protein is still high. Choices are terrible.

What I learned, much to my surprise, is that canned foods have much lower fat and protein percentages!!! And I'm talking about good quality stuff - people quality. Adding canned foods to Sophie's diet has reduced her kibble consumption. We are still making adjustments, but things are looking pretty good.

I'm lucky. Sophie is a preference eater. She eats what she likes most first, she eats it all, then and only then will she move on to choice number two. She loves the canned foods. So I'm feeding X amount of canned food (low on energy content - fat and protein - but still excellent quality food), and then she moves on to her kibble mix. I free feed the kibble, but when she has had her fill, she stops eating.

Kibble = energy dense (higher percentages of fat and protein)

Canned = moisture dense, lower energy body-fuel by volume

9. A LOT of vets have concerns about feeding only kibbles to hedgehogs. Lowering her kibble consumption by adding canned foods is, more likely than not, a good thing.

10. I give Sophie a dose of Maxi/Guard Oral Cleansing Gel every day to help keep her teeth/gums/mouth clean. Softer foods may carry the risk of increasing risk of tooth decay. Harder foods may carry the risk of increasing tooth wear. Her kibble is quartered with a razor blade!!!

11. I'm feeding Natural Balance and Wellness Core canned foods. Protein is 9% - 12% or so and fat is 5% - 7%. Yeah, yeah, the protein is way below recommendations. However, if she needs to lose weight, she needs less protein and fat both. Also, one most consider the total diet. Sophie's kibble has the normal protein percentage, so it averages out to the results we want.


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## GoodandPlenty (Feb 4, 2012)

PS - Sophie is finicky about consistency of soft foods, whether baby food (Gerber / Beechnut) or canned foods (Natural Balance / Wellness). I learned to thin all of these with a bit of water. Makes all the difference in the world. For whatever reason, if soft foods are 'thickish', she won't touch them. But if I thin a bit and mix well, she'll eat every bit of it. Strange, the little tricks we have to figure out.


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## GoodandPlenty (Feb 4, 2012)

PS #2 - With 'low-fat' foods you have to be extremely aware of carbohydrates. Manufacturers are not required to inform you of carbs but low-fat will help not at all if carbs are jacked up, which is often the case. They will be hidden in the label; you have to understand all of the ingredients, which, of course, is ridiculous to expect of people.


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## Annie&Tibbers (Apr 16, 2013)

Quick "Durrr!" check: sometimes my odometer gets bumped and is no longer close enough to the magnet to record distances. If you spin the wheel yourself, does it increment?

Back-lump is concerning. I hope you can describe it enough that someone else can figure out if it's normal vs. vet-worthy.

If she likes playtime and is active during it, go for as much playtime as feasible with your lifestyle? If she won't wheel-run, see how many km she can rack up tubing, or Mount-Human-climbing.

Maybe the wheel tilted or warped in a way she doesn't like? Does it still spin smoothly, or does it need some maintenance? Nice short nails & perfect not-hot/not-cold temperatures are other pieces of advice that have been successful for others on the forum concerned by a lack of wheeling.

I'm watching with interest, particularly as my small friend is maintaining his wheel-strike.


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## Skittles (Aug 2, 2012)

Here are some pictures, she was too busy having fun and wasn't worried about me needing good pictures (I know you all know how that goes) so it doesn't show the hump the best. But if you look there is a dip down after her shoulders.(that is a toilet paper roll cut in half, to help you judge size based on the items she has). It's hard to believe but when I brought her home she was the same size as the piggy!


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## Skittles (Aug 2, 2012)

I want to thank everyone for taking the time to reply. GoodandPlenty, you took a lot of time to go through and help me out and I truly appreciate that. However I respectfully disagree with soft food actually being less fat, yes it certainly says that on the label but when you take into consideration all of the water it works out to be higher in fat. In the diet and nutrition thread there is a stickied post called soft food recommendations and it does a very good job at explaining it and gives you the formula to figure out the actual percentage.


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## Skittles (Aug 2, 2012)

I just weighed her, she weighs 654 grams...


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## abbys (Oct 13, 2012)

Aww, little Hedgie McPudge!!  Ok, so it looks like that lump you mentioned is just the "fat shoulder" lump. 

Does she still seem to want to sleep a lot more?


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## Skittles (Aug 2, 2012)

lol, love it! Hedgie McPudge, she totally is!!! 
If given the choice between sleeping and playing she has always chosen sleeping. As soon as I give her her bag she stops all play and dives right in. The past couple of days she has been more willing to play, maybe she just needed rest, I don't know. 
I really need to know how to get a hedgehog to loose weight when it's already on a diet and playpen time 99% of the mornings (lets be honest, sometimes life does get in the way). I'm at a loss and out of ideas.


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## abbys (Oct 13, 2012)

Skittles said:


> I really need to know how to get a hedgehog to loose weight when it's already on a diet and playpen time 99% of the mornings (lets be honest, sometimes life does get in the way). I'm at a loss and out of ideas.


I wish I could help but my only advice is to ask your vet. :? The reduced calorie diet is the only method I have experience with and the vet might have more options. Plus they could give her a general checkup to make sure the weight gain isn't the result of an underlying issue.


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## Skittles (Aug 2, 2012)

the last time she was at the vet she told me to put her on hedgehog food, which I will not do, so I'd have to find a different one. Which is fine, I'll just ask around here or see what vets are recommended in my area


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## Chloethehedgie7 (Jul 24, 2013)

She's not that big. Authority Sensitive Soulution overweight food is the best and cheap on the price!  I had experience with almost 2 pound hedgehogs. Lol.


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## Tom (Jul 21, 2013)

You're just trying to sell Authority 

Sent from Petguide.com Free App


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## abbys (Oct 13, 2012)

Chloethehedgie7 said:


> She's not that big. Authority Sensitive Soulution overweight food is the best and cheap on the price!  I had experience with almost 2 pound hedgehogs. Lol.


She's actually quite round. I imagine she has difficulty balling up completely, which is a sure sign of obesity. It's cute when they're that round, but it's not healthy.


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