# Sudden Biting/Revenge Peeing



## brendamw88 (Dec 7, 2015)

Hello, there!
I've been a lurker on the forum for quite a while, and usually got things figured out well enough on my own, but I've come across a novel one in the world of hedgies, it seems...

I've had my gal Hazel for about 8 months now, and she's (as best I can guess) around a year old. I got her from another girl who just couldn't take care of her, and up until now, she's been an absolute delight!

Now to the fun part:
I recently set up a heating system in her cage, since I live in MN and don't have the bags of money to keep my house at her temperature, and we've had some behavior problems ever since. Namely, whenever I take her out lately, she's been biting clothes, blankets, etc. but not annointing, and she's taken to revenge peeing/pooping!

We've been pals for a long enough time now that I've ruled out quilling, new scents, tasting, all the usual culprits. And yes, there's a difference between the occasional hedgie accidents and revenge. The other night, she peed on me in 4 separate occasions in under 20 minutes! To add to this, she decided to take a chunk out of my finger a few days back. We've gone through a biting phase before, but I thought we had it sorted out after some conditioning and mealworm bribery, but this situation is totally new.

A few other details: the heater has her cage running at 71F, which seems to be just fine with her. Actually, she wasn't showing signs of being chilled with the house at 69, but I figured I'd best be on the safe side, living in a frigid climate. She was also at the vet less than a month ago for a bout of mites, since treated, where she got a clean bill of health (and a compliment on her weight, might I add!). The only change since this behavior has started is the heater! She's also been tearing about her cage, wriggling under her liner (she's always been a liner diver, but now she's knocking over her food dishes and wheel), and being a general pain in the butt!

Phew! With all that out of the way: does anyone have any ideas as to what's going on?!


----------



## shinydistraction (Jul 6, 2014)

71F is too low. You'll want to bump that up a couple more degrees. Now, what sort of heating system are you using exactly? That might explain what's going on with the behavior.

As far the the potty behavior...what are you doing when it happens? Before and after? Is there a pattern? If an adult potties on you repeatedly it might be because you're reinforcing the behavior somehow. Are you putting her back in her cage when it happens?


----------



## brendamw88 (Dec 7, 2015)

shinydistraction said:


> 71F is too low. You'll want to bump that up a couple more degrees. Now, what sort of heating system are you using exactly? That might explain what's going on with the behavior.
> 
> As far the the potty behavior...what are you doing when it happens? Before and after? Is there a pattern? If an adult potties on you repeatedly it might be because you're reinforcing the behavior somehow. Are you putting her back in her cage when it happens?


She's in an enclosed cage, so I went with a heating mat placed under the cage itself. She also has fleece liners. I'm worried about bumping up the heat any more than it already is, since she didn't have any negative behavior changes with the heat where it was...

Potty behavior: the only pattern seems to be that she does it when she wants to go back in her cage. So naturally, I don't put her back in her cage right away after she does it. Most commonly, it happens after I pull her out of the covers after she's tried to take a bit out of my pant leg...

She's only had that type of behavior before when I've done something out of the ordinary, such as waking her up at an odd time (sorry, the vet doesn't schedule appointments at 10pm, Hazel...) or worn clothing that smelled like a bonfire. She makes it very clear that this is not merely a call of nature...


----------



## brendamw88 (Dec 7, 2015)

Also, according to my roommate (who's been the only one to happen to SEE her nocturnal disruptive episodes), she's taken to liner diving in the middle of the cage and wriggling back and forth hard enough to shake her ceramic bowls around. Typically, she just pulls up the liner under her log, tucks herself in, and goes to sleep, so this is new...

The only other time I remember her being that disruptive around the cage was when we first switched her from CareFresh to liners.


----------



## shinydistraction (Jul 6, 2014)

Heat mats are not appropriate heat sources for hedgehogs. They don't heat the air of the cage, only the floor, and do not provide even, consistent temperatures throughout the cage. They can also cause low temp burns. You also run the risk of a hedgehog refusing to leave the warmth of the heat mat to go do other things like eating, exercising and relieving themselves.

The very first thing I would do is get a hedgehog safe heat set up. You can get a ceramic heat emitter (CHE), or a space heater. Both have their pros and cons, so you'll need to decide which will work best for you. However, regardless of which you choose, you'll need a thermostat with a probe that goes in the cage to regulate the temperature as well as a thermometer so you know the exact temperature in the cage. The CHE will likely be the largest up front cost, but easiest on the wallet long term. It will also only heat the cage. The space heater will likely have a lower up front, but it can be more expensive to run and will heat the entire room.

Before you do anything else, get the heat situation sorted and see if the behavior calms down. She absolutely needs higher temperatures than 71. 73 is the absolute lowest it should go (and frankly, that low would make me really nervous). However, do bump it up gradually. 

It's super late here, so I'll come back to talk about the other issues, unless someone else beats me to it.


----------



## twobytwopets (Feb 2, 2014)

Ok, you said you don't put her back after she pees, but what do you do? 
What is the temperature is the area that you are bonding in?


----------



## brendamw88 (Dec 7, 2015)

twobytwopets said:


> Ok, you said you don't put her back after she pees, but what do you do?
> What is the temperature is the area that you are bonding in?


We typically have cuddle time on the couch or in my bed, and my house is kept at around 69-70F. That being said, almost all of our interactions take place under blankets, since both of us are snuggly creatures...

As for what I do after she pees- usually clean it up? :lol: Apart from the obvious noises of disgust and disapproval, I typically just keep her in one hand and clean the affected area with the other, then return to cuddling. I have noticed she doesn't have this problem when I have her in her fleece, just when she's on top of the covers or on my legs. She also never does it when she's in my hair (THANK GOD!)

Basically what I'm wondering at this point is this: Is she just pissed that I'm taking her out of her nice warm snuggly cage to go have play time with mom?


----------



## twobytwopets (Feb 2, 2014)

So she goes pee when she has a temperature change? Your hands may be cold enough to cause an involuntary reaction to cold or sudden shifts in temperature.. Peeing
Under the blanket is warmer than above it. Your hands are colder than your head. 
Going more than once in a short period of time says she probably didn't empty her bladder, your reaction also could contribute to this. 
Revenge is a higher emotion. Animals generally don't show higher emotions, it's our interpretation of what they are doing. 

So, suggestions.... 
Get a proper heat set up for her cage. She may not be showing signs of issues caused by heat, but she isn't thriving. Trashing her cage could easily be a sign of stress. You need to heat the whole cage, not just the floor.
See if you can warm the area you are bonding with her in. 
Limit your reaction when she pees. Have paper towels handy to clean messes without voicing any frustrations. It's just pee, we all do it. 

How big is the cage? What does she have to occupy herself with in the cage at night? Is there light near the cage? What is her light schedule?


----------



## PrincePip (Jan 18, 2014)

I have to weigh in and say that I believe revenge pee/poop is most definitely possible and is not personification. My Pip will actually stomp his feet and poop and pee if I prevent him from doing something he wants - such as trying to get under my radiant heating system or behind my electric fireplace. He will spend over half an hour repeatedly trying various tactics to obtain his "goal" and when he's finally frustrated with me diverting him, will stomp his feet and evacuate. Does he understand I don't want him to go there? I don't think it matters. He only knows what he wants and that I'm preventing it. And that I might leave to clean up his crap and he might get his way after all! Humour aside, I should add the caveat that I have nearly always found that at his spunkiest, he is coming down with a UTI.


----------



## twobytwopets (Feb 2, 2014)

I'm not saying that they don't have the ability to draw a conclusion between using the bathroom and being set down, put back in the cage or whatever reaction they get. But I wouldn't describe it as revenge. It would be more of a Pavlov's dog type of scenario. I do x and y happens, I do x and y happens, eventually it turns to if I want y to happen I have to do x. 
In this scenario, it could be something as simple as a husbandry issue. In this case, heating. Not just the cage but the bonding area. Sudden temperature changes can cause physiological reactions, sudden urge to pee. Humans and some other animals just have the ability, physically and mentally, to get to an appropriate place to do it.


----------

