# Going to Paris for one month or so... any French here?



## Barbara811

Hi guys!
I'll be in Paris for one month or so. I'll take the train since airline companies do not allow hedgehog on board.
My mom offered to look after my hedgehog. I trust her, but of course she doesn't know my hedgehog as I do.
Sooo... I'm looking for advices, tips and information.
If anyone here lives in France, could you please tell me if pet hedgehogs are allowed? Do they need to be in quarantine? Do they need to take shots, or anti-rabies vaccines? Or could you just give me an email address of who I need to contact? I don't know french yet, so it is a little hard for me to find it...


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## Draenog

African pygmy hedgehogs are illegal in France. Not sure if you could keep them with a permit, but that usually takes months and lots of paperwork if it's even a possibility.


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## chloere93

I would seriously recommend just letting your mum look after your hedgehog whilst you're away. As mentioned above, pygmy hedgehogs are illegal in France. If you got your hedgie from a breeder, they might even be happy to look after him/her whilst your away.


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## nikki

I agree that it would be in the best interest for your hedgehog if you left him home with your mom to care for him. Not only do you need to find out for sure if you could take him but you need to find out if where you're staying allows them, if you'll be able to keep the proper heat and light conditions and what you would do if he got sick while you're there.


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## Barbara811

I would have taken with me all his equipment: lamp, heat pad, running wheel.
But yes, it seems it is to hard for me to take him with me. What a pity.
I was hoping that things had changed in France since the last topic I found here...

Thanks anyway for the help, guys


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## Barbara811

Hey guys, I'm still not going to give up on this.

So, a friend of mine, found a NAC (nouveaux animal de compagnie) vet in Paris.

Not sure if it is going to be possible to take my little friend with me, but I'm still trying to do so, so I want to write down all the things I know just in case anyone needs them.

In those days I called the French embassy in Italy and the employee told me: "I didn't know pet hedgehog is a thing" (can't believe it, never been on Facebook/Instagram/Twitter?). Ok, let's move on.
That friend of mine went to Italian embassy in France. They don't know anything, just like Jon Snow.
Then, I wrote an email to the train company I will get from Milan to Paris. The operator told me that as long as I have my pet's passport I won't have any problem, since I am an EU citizen. So I did some researches and that's what I found: according to Regulation (EU) No 576/2013 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 12 June 2013 dogs, cats, ferrets, and mammals such rabbits and rodents may travel with their owner. So, hedgehogs are not listed.


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## nikki

I wouldn't trust the information from the train operator, they don't deal with customs. It's the Customs agency in France that you need to talk to and the Custom Agency in your home country. They are the ones that will decide if you can take your hedgehog into the countries. If you get to the border and they say no, what do you plan on doing?? If hedgehogs are not specifically listed then most customs agents don't allow them. You need something from customs saying that they are allowed so that you don't get stuck at the border. 

Another thing to think of is it would be a lot less stressful and better for your hedgehog if you left him home. There is really no benefit to him for you to take him that far on a trip with so many unknown factors.


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## Barbara811

I won't take him with me unless I have proof in hand that says that I can "import" him. I'll go to France by the end of october, but I just want to make myself sure that I did everything possible to take him with me. If I won't be allowed to take him with me, fine. I won't.

I already lost one hedgehog because I wasn't careful enough. I just don't want to make the same mistake. Mostly, I don't want other people make the same mistake I did. I know how to deal with him, I know what he eats and what he doesn't, I know when he needs a foot bath and when the wheel needs to be cleaned up. Maybe I'm a little overprotective but I don't want to lose him just because I decided to leave him here when I had the chance to take him with me. I would take in France all the stuff he has here. I know this may sound stupid.


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## nikki

I understand you want to be the one to care for him and why you want this but you need to stop and think, would taking him with you be of more benefit to him? Or would it be more for your benefit, so you worry less. If it's going to benefit you more than him then it's not fair to him.


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## Draenog

Travelling with small mammals within Europe is usually not a problem but you are not just passing through, you are staying for a month. You need to find out whether or not that still counts as simply travelling or if it's too long to be legally keeping a pygmy hedgehog within the country. 
The embassy nor the train company aren't going to give you the answers you need, you need to call the Customs department in France. 

About borders - honestly you can just drive from country to country in Europe and no one's gonna stop you. Unless you're crossing the sea and are going to the UK because they have a passport check at the boat/train. On the train from Italy to France they might check your passport though. 
There still is a chance they might check your stuff, so better to be safe than sorry. What you need to find out is whether you stay still counts as travelling or not. If it's listed as just passing through, it can be done. But staying home is always better for the animal.


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## Barbara811

nikki said:


> I understand you want to be the one to care for him and why you want this but you need to stop and think, would taking him with you be of more benefit to him? Or would it be more for your benefit, so you worry less. If it's going to benefit you more than him then it's not fair to him.


I don't know either. I mean, if nothing happens while he stays home I'll just say: "I have been so silly. I worried too much". But what about something happens to him, I just won't never forgive myself.
Anyway, for now, I asked my dad, my mom and my cousin to look after him while I'm in France. But I'm still trying to figure out if I can take him with me and if I should take him with me. All that you guys say may be right, I mean, it's just one month, but I have to make myself sure I'm not underestimate this whole situation.

But I really appreciate your advice and Draenog, I really do.


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## Barbara811

Here are some news:
According to a friend, every (at least, Italy and France) country in Europe signed the Berne Convention on the Conservation of European Wildlife and Natural Habitats in 1979.
Among the protected species that are listed, we have Erinaceus europaeus (european hedgehog) and Atelerix algirus (North African hedgehog) but not A. Albiventris.
So, technically, it is not illegal to have an African Pygmy Hedgehog.
I wrote this just because I read on this forum that is illegal... so we all found today that it is not. Well, good to know, I guess.
Tomorrow I will try to call the vet custom.


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## nikki

AHPs are a hybrid they aren't at least 3 types of hedgehogs in them, I can't remember exactly what they are all but they are a cross between the North African and A. Albiventris. This is why AHPs aren't specifically mentioned.


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## Draenog

African pygmy hedgehog = Atelerix albiventris aka four-toed hedgehog, whitebellied hedgehog, etc. 
A. albiventris is their scientific classification, they are listed as this species in official papers and records.
There is no proof any other species have been used, in fact it is highly unlikely - esp. the North African hedgehog (this is a very persistent myth which started as a mistake by the first breeders in North America). But there might be a chance a few subspecies have been crossed, these would be subspecies we currently don't know of yet. Which is why they are currently simply A. albiventris because this is the species we know which is bred as a pet.
African pygmy hedgehog is a name invented in North America but in most other parts of the world they are called whitebellied hedgehog.

The reason Erinaceus europaeus and Atelerix algirus are listed is because they are wildlife, which is illegal to keep in most countries. 
A. albiventris doesn't live in Europe so that's why it's not on that list. However, this doesn't mean countries can ban them as pets because that has nothing to do with it.


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