# E. coli??



## tobikater (Jun 6, 2013)

I have a hedgehog who's about 16 months old and who's been having issues with green poop/mucus for about three months now, on and off. He was on two separate antibiotics treatments for clostridia a couple of months ago, with a couple of weeks between treatments. When nothing was really improving, I switched to a new vet, who had a bunch of bloodwork/xrays done, none of which showed anything out of the ordinary. However, she did say his poop had more clostridia than she's ever seen, and he's now been on more antibiotics (Flagyl) for about a week. I'm seeing some improvement, but still a bit of green and occasionally mucus. I've also been giving him Benebac to try to counteract some of the antibiotics side effects. This whole time his appetite and activity level has been completely normal -- he was losing a bit of weight for a while but I started adding more fat to his diet and he seems to be gaining it back.

Meanwhile, the vet sent a fecal sample off to a lab to do a culture, and the results came back with elevated levels of E. coli. Has anyone ever heard of this in a hedgehog? The vet admitted to not being able to find much about it in her research, and I wasn't able to find anything on these forums, so it doesn't seem like a common thing. The lab is going to further analyze the results to find the exact strain, and then the plan is to add another antibiotic to target the specific strain.

I just wanted to get some feedback from other hedgie owners about the situation. It's been an incredibly frustrating few months trying to get him back to normal, and I just want to make sure I'm doing the right thing here. If it is in fact E. coli then great, we can treat it, but the fact that I'm not finding any information about it in hedgehogs is making me suspicious....in particular since the clostridia is clearly also an issue. Any thoughts anyone has on this would be greatly appreciated!!


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## Stellara (Nov 12, 2011)

just bumping this up.
I'm sorry you haven't had any help yet- I personally have dealt with two very unusual issues with my exotics (one a hedgehog and one a sugar glider) and both times we consulted with exotic vets all over and nobody had EVER had a similar issue. I think the only thing close was that one vet had a "somewhat" similar patient that was a ferret fifteen years ago.
I know that when my vet did not have any past patients with anything similar to my hedgehogs, she consulted with many vets including the top exotic vet at our Cornell University- perhaps your vet could do this if she hasn't already? 
I'm glad the metronidazole (Flagyl) is helping for the time being, it's one of those prescriptions I don't think I could live without as a rescuer. It sounds like your vet is honing in on E Coli as the culprit.
As far as the clostridia, I'd be curious to know HOW much was found in the feces and how much is normal for hedgehogs? Also did she identify which strain of clostridium it was? I know most healthy animals will have clostridia naturally in their stool so treatment isn't necessary unless symptoms are present (like your hedgies diarrhea). Also, at least from what I remember about dogs and cats, metronidazole is also a treatment for clostridia so IF there is an abnormal level of it hopefully that will continue to aid. I think adding benebac or another probiotic is a GREAT idea and I would definitely keep that up!
I'll do a little research and if I come up with anything regarding E Coli in hedgehogs I'll let you know.


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## tobikater (Jun 6, 2013)

Thanks for the response Stellara.  I don't have much of an update, we're still waiting to find out the exact strain of E. coli before getting the additional antibiotic. I did talk to the vet for a while yesterday, and she made me a bit nervous by talking about how "immunosuppression" could be one of the things causing the excess bacteria, which might point to a more serious underlying cause. She mentioned how hedgies are prone to cancer, although I feel like mine is pretty young to have it. Also there was no indication of any growth in his xrays (though she said it's possible for it to be more widespread and less noticeable), and his behavior hasn't changed at all over the last few months. I would think that if there was something really serious going on, I would have noticed other symptoms besides his stool issues. 

In any case, I'm still quite worried about what might be going on... hoping we'll see some improvement with additional antibiotics, which he'll hopefully be starting in the next couple of days. This has been stressing me out for months, would be great to have some kind of resolution.  One theory I came up with to make me freak out less about the cancer thing is that possibly the fact that the clostridia has been so widespread and hasn't been successfully treated could have made him more susceptible to the E. coli as well... not sure if that's at all medically valid though. Anyway, if anyone has any other thoughts on this, I'd love to hear them.


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## Alyybear (Nov 8, 2012)

It could help to get a second opinion, if you have that option. Some vets are very dishonest and scare people to make them spend more money. If you think what your vet says sounds off, try and get a second opinion if its possible. If not, I hope your vet isn't one of that kind 
I hope your hedgie ends up being fine! <3


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## tobikater (Jun 6, 2013)

Yeah I've considered that possibility as well. I was actually referred to this vet by another exotics vet who had less experience with hedgehogs, and she seems pretty knowledgeable, but I am a little wary (especially considering how expensive all these tests have been). 

In general his poop looks a lot better than it did before -- basically no green, and I haven't seen much mucus either. One new symptom I've noticed is like a clear, almost skin-like film around some of his poop. Not sure if this was always happening and just covered up by the mucus, or if it's a recent development. Has anyone encountered this before?


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## DasIgelPoggie (Oct 21, 2010)

All hedgehogs have some levels of e. Coli in their systems, but it can get out of control rather easily. What kind of food are you feeding him? Be sure to check it hasn't been recalled lately, a lot of foods are on recall right now for causing-- you guessed it-- e Coli poisoning, which would also explain why he keeps getting sick after his meds, the food would be reintroducing the e. Coli.


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## DasIgelPoggie (Oct 21, 2010)

Also-- as far as the clostridium goes... Well, essentially clostridium is a very common secondary infection. What happens is when the antibiotics come through and wipe out the bacteria in the stomach, it does not differentiate between the bad bacteria and the good bacteria. Once the antibiotics are finished, it's like a freshly tilled flower bed with no flowers: Weeds will want to grow! So clostridium behaves as the weed and begins to grow in the hedgies' tummy and intestines. Before long, it becomes a secondary infection.
The Benebac is the best way to prevent this. Give the Benebac about 10-20 minutes after you give the hedgie the antibiotics, and that will help promote the growth of beneficial flora instead of clostridium.


P.S. I apologize if this is incoherent-- I am drifting off as I'm typing, I will clarify if I need to in the AM!


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

DasIgelPoggie said:


> What kind of food are you feeding him? Be sure to check it hasn't been recalled lately, a lot of foods are on recall right now for causing-- you guessed it-- e Coli poisoning, which would also explain why he keeps getting sick after his meds, the food would be reintroducing the e. Coli.


Can you post a list that are recalled for e-coli please. There are lots for salmonella, but I've not heard of e-coli in pet food, but nothing would surprise me.


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## tobikater (Jun 6, 2013)

For the first year I had been feeding him a food mix put together by the breeder I got him from -- Pokey Crunch, which had some sort of kibble, some dried fruit, insects, etc. But since taking him to the second vet I've tried him on a couple of different foods in case that was the problem. First the vet had him on Hills Prescription i/d for general gastrointestinal issues, because she first thought he might just have enteritis (inflamed bowels). After I started him on the antibiotics this time around, I've been switching him over to Chicken Soup for the Cat Lover's Soul -- right now he's on about 2/3 of the light and 1/3 of the regular to get a bit more fat in his diet. (I've definitely noticed he's been gaining weight, which is great because he was apparently slightly underweight before.. he's definitely a runner  )

Anyway, I started him on Baytril today for the E. coli in addition to the Flagyl, so we'll see how he responds to that. Thanks everyone for the feedback, let me know if there's anything else you can think of.


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## tobikater (Jun 6, 2013)

Just wanted to update in case anyone else has a similar problem... after ~5 weeks of Flagyl and 3 weeks of Baytril, and daily doses of Benebac, little Cilantro finally seems completely back to normal! I was still seeing a little bit of green every day while he was on the antibiotics, but it's now been 4 days since I've seen any green at all... which hasn't been the case in almost half a year! He's also definitely gained weight and is an all around healthy little hog 

This is my best guess as to what happened -- after one of his first vet visits, I was told he was a bit overweight, so I started reducing how much food I gave him. This may have been a mistake to begin with, or I just reduced it too much, to the point where he wasn't getting all of the nutrients he needed. I didn't notice this until the poop problems started because he was still running like crazy and acting otherwise normal. But because he wasn't getting the nutrients he needed, it was much harder for him to fight off the infection(s), even with antibiotics. I also wasn't giving him Benebac until these last 2 treatments, so that may have also contributed to him not recovering as quickly.

Anyway, thanks for all the advice! Very happy to not be constantly worrying about this anymore


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## Stellara (Nov 12, 2011)

That is GREAT! So glad your little guy is back to normal


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