# Won't eat cat food



## zevil (Jun 14, 2018)

So Mr Prickle Hoggleton has recovered from RI as stated from a previous thread. He is still really skinny and stop eating dry cat food since I took him back from a friend who did not care good care of him, details are also in my previous thread.

He weighs 260+g consistently, will not eat his Blue Buffalo cat food which he used to eat. I have tried 5 different brands and he is still not interested. He only eat mealworms, dubia and Turkestan roaches. He doesn't like superworms. I bought wax worms which is supposed to be a favorite among hedgehogs but Mr Prickle took a bite, spit it out and ignore them from then on. I tried boiled unseasoned chicken, boiled unseasoned pork and pork liver. He likes it but his weight did not increase much. He still like running on his wheel though.

I bought carnivore care, syringe fed him. He seems to be lapping it up. Put some in his food bowl, the whole thing was gone in the morning. I'm glad he finally ate something other then bugs on his own. The next day I made a mushy mix of mealworms and carnivore care in his food bowl. He ate everything. Then I tried adding wax worms in it. He still ate everything.

So, I figured I will just add dry cat food into the mix and he should like it right? I added three previous types of cat food that he rejected into his mix. He did not take a single bite by morning. I guess he really hates dry cat food. I tried again with another two other types of cat food, still no go. Btw I got his teeth checked twice, nothing wrong with his teeth. But it wasn't checked thoroughly? Because he wasn't on anathestic.


After all that, his weight is up to 280+g now, must be from the wax worms and carnivore care mix intake. But he can't possibly eat that his entire life right?


----------



## Yukidama's mama (Apr 4, 2017)

Sorry to hear he is still having eating issues. 

I would only add one type of new cat food at a time and do so very very slowly. Like I'm talking 1-5 pieces of kibble for a minimum of a week with the Carivore care and insects mix. I had very similar issue with my boy. He now eats a mix of 4x cat kibble brands but it took me like 6 months or longer to get him fully on a whole mix! Even now I am adding a new kibble, blue buffalo weight management kibble to his mix (as the once underweight Yuki at 260g now weighs 480gs a year later! ^^) so I have reduced the highest fat % kibbles from his mix, again slowly reducing these buy 3 pieces of kibbles per a week and then adding 3 pieces of the new blue buffalo in. If I do it too fast he gets green poop ><. If this happens I reduce the new kibble again until his stomach settles. I also use probiotic Benebac when he gets green poop to help settle his stomach. We are now up to x12 pieces of blue buffalo in his kibble mix and I first started introducing it back in May I think lol. So it is a really gradual process!


----------



## zevil (Jun 14, 2018)

Yukidama's mama said:


> Sorry to hear he is still having eating issues.
> 
> I would only add one type of new cat food at a time and do so very very slowly. Like I'm talking 1-5 pieces of kibble for a minimum of a week with the Carivore care and insects mix. I had very similar issue with my boy. He now eats a mix of 4x cat kibble brands but it took me like 6 months or longer to get him fully on a whole mix! Even now I am adding a new kibble, blue buffalo weight management kibble to his mix (as the once underweight Yuki at 260g now weighs 480gs a year later! ^^) so I have reduced the highest fat % kibbles from his mix, again slowly reducing these buy 3 pieces of kibbles per a week and then adding 3 pieces of the new blue buffalo in. If I do it too fast he gets green poop ><. If this happens I reduce the new kibble again until his stomach settles. I also use probiotic Benebac when he gets green poop to help settle his stomach. We are now up to x12 pieces of blue buffalo in his kibble mix and I first started introducing it back in May I think lol. So it is a really gradual process!


Wow 260 to 480 is a massive accomplishment! I wish Prickle could get to at least 320g. Okay so a few pieces of kibbles a day into the mix for him to try for a week? I'll do that. Thanks for the advice!


----------



## Yukidama's mama (Apr 4, 2017)

Just take it very slowly. Like 1 or 2 pieces if a few pieces puts him off eating it. You want him to not notice the taste difference and then build it up very slowly when he gets used to the new taste. That's what I've found works anyways... 

Haha, yeh it seemed to take months of trying to get him to gain or even maintain weight to then when he reached around 320g it suddenly piled on (I'd already stopped feeding the wax worms when he started gaining and was only feeding them 2-3x times a week, but superworms everyday x2 gut loaded). He now gets only half a superworm mixed with his kibble (he won't eat cat kibble without it, unless it's his breakfast which he'll eat fine without insects lol, he seems very particular! Plus some canned crickets or mealworms per a night. Tonight I just weighed him and he's 489g the most he ever weighed >< (he hasn't been to the toilet yet though!) ^^

I should probably add, he really started to gain when I started offering a fresh mix of food in the morning too (just 20 or so kibble mixed with some water). Since he won't touch dry kibble he used to go all day without eating anything and when I had to give him antibiotics one time twice a day, I'd feed him in the morning and noticed he'd eat so now I always offer it, most days he eats it all and means he's staying hydrated in rthis hot weather too. You can also leave his food dish in his hide area during the day to encourage eating if he's a shy hog and won't come out to eat in the daylight. Offer his main food at night time as this is when he'll be most active.


----------



## zevil (Jun 14, 2018)

Mine won't even eat wax worms and superworms unless I "trick" him into eating them like mixing them with mealworms or carnivore care. He's so picky that sometimes it's frustrating lol. 

And he does not come out to wheel or drink and eat unless it's in total darkness.


----------



## zevil (Jun 14, 2018)

So I mixed 5 pieces of wellness turkey into his mix of carnivore care and mealworms, he finished everything!


----------



## Yukidama's mama (Apr 4, 2017)

Excellent! That's good he didn't notice 5 pieces! I'd do that for about 1-2 weeks. If he doesn't get any green poop increase by another 2 or 3-5 in about 1 or 2 weeks and so on 

Yuki is the same! He won't come out during the day. I have to wake him up for bonding time and this is when I give him his dinner mix. He doesn't wheel until the lights go off. He doesn't come out in the day to eat his breakfast either, again, I check on him mid morning and this is when I offer him a fresh dish of his mix (a small breakfast), he'll eat half of it then and go back to sleep. I then leave the dish under his sleeping sack close to him and I'll hear him later on in the day eating it  sometimes he'll just sleep through and not eat anymore but most times he'll have a nibble. I mainly just want him to have the option and get the moisture from the food since he doesn't need to gain anymore weight lol ><

Luckily one thing he will eat is insects! Supers are his favourite perhaps because it was the first ever insect he tried. It took him a couple times to eat the wax worms, I don't think they smell as strong, as we really had to wave it in front of him to notice it lol. Just mix them in with his food so he's eating them this way. Just don't feed too many wax worms. I was feeding about 2-3 waxies 2-3x a week. Until he started gaining then I reduced them and just kept feeding the other insects daily.


----------



## zevil (Jun 14, 2018)

Well I can't do that since I have to go to work by 9am and I get back by 8pm. =/

One thing I noticed is that he doesn't like soft bodied insects, he doesn't like silkworms and wax worms but the exception is superworms, not sure why though. But he really enjoy chasing crickets and roaches so he's clumsy so most of the time I need to help him get his live food.


----------



## Yukidama's mama (Apr 4, 2017)

I have work some mornings and need to leave by 9.30. I just give it to him earlier on these days . i guess I don't have to add insects to his morning dish so it's much quicker to prepare. I just leave it to soak whilst I get ready and then feed before I leave. Does he mind canned insects, as you could use those in the morning to make it quicker? I really think this was what helped him gained more weight by eating during the day as well. 

Ah that would make sense, they probably prefer the crunchy type! Yuki only ate a baby (small) silkworm. I managed to get one fully grown (the rest died off!). It was huge so I cut it up, it didn't look very appetising and he wouldn't touch it lol. I haven't since bought them again, they're really hard to raise?? Crickets and roaches are pretty good feeders at least, they're less fatty though. Have you tried cutting the super worm up into bite size pieces or halves and tried offering like this not when mixed up in food? This is what the pet store did so how I always fed them. They're exoskeleton is quite tough so perhaps this is why he doesn't like it. Sometimes Yuki leaves the shells or vomits them up. I know it sounds gross, but since he seemed to have an issue eating them, I occasionally have to just use their guts in the food. Cut in half and squeeze out with a spoon and mix that with the food, so it still has insect flavour and dispose of the outer shell. You could try this, so he's still getting the nutrients, gut load them first with safe veggies and fruits too. Like the kibble, just use one superworm or a half in your mix and build it up if it's a taste thing, but it's probably the outer shell that he doesn't like. Since they're pretty fatty, I don't think you need to use more than two a night if feeding other insects too. If he really doesn't like them, mealworms are similar just smaller and they tend to not have an issue with them.

Haha, aw it is sweet watching them trying to catch their food ><
I need to get more dubias in. They grew so fast last time and he had a hard time eating the large ones, I ended up having to freeze them off :/


----------



## zevil (Jun 14, 2018)

Yukidama's mama said:


> I have work some mornings and need to leave by 9.30. I just give it to him earlier on these days
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Canned insects are not sold here though. I also have to mix water with the carnivore care and get the desired texture. I could try to wake up earlier if I can haha.

I raised silkworms from a batch of 100 eggs, most of them died off due to my inexperience. But six of them became moths and had eggs. I still have that bunch of eggs in a container now.

Haven't tried cutting up superworms, will do that tonight. I prepare my own gutload of wheat, oatmeal, barley, flaxseed, sunflower seeds all grind up and also oranges, carrots and apples for moisture. But it's weird because he used to eat superworms.

Ya I love watching him get excited sniffing for his insects and run around. If the Dubia is too big, he will chomp it in half and eat it, then pick up the other half in his mouth and finish it off. He has no problems with big insects.


----------



## Yukidama's mama (Apr 4, 2017)

Ah really? I'm in Japan and I can get the Zoo Meds 'Can O...' Canned insects. I have to order them online within Japan. Do you have Amazon where you live, that's pretty good for finding foreign brands. You'll find canned insects, in the reptile section of websites. If reptiles are kept as pets where you live I'm sure you should be able to get some somewhere. There are also Japanese brand ones which are made Indonesia that I also buy.

Haha yeh I understand what you mean, I'm not a morning person either! >< luckily for some reason he doesn't mind his mixed food without any insects in it now, but only the morning. At night time he wants to eat insects so it's got to have it in it otherwise he barely touches it haha.

I bought 30 silkworms small size and they're strange food but also due to my inexperience most of them died with like only 5 growing to a large size but then one by one dying. Then he didn't even eat the last remaining survivor! Maybe they don't taste as good as adults, like darkling beetles don't...

Hmm have you always used that substrate mix and gut load? I would stop putting oranges in, as they're too acidic for hedgies. Kiwi is really good, when I farmed my supers it made them grow so quickly! I use a similar substrate mix except for sunflower seeds and barley. Instead I use wheat germ, oats and bran, with a little flaxseed (this can make it go moldy). Extra gutload is green veggies, like spinach leaves, green beans, brocolli stems and red bell peppers, basically the scraps when I'm cooking 

Yeh no idea why my boy always seems to struggle, I think he gets too excited and doesn't chew properly! ><


----------



## zevil (Jun 14, 2018)

Yukidama's mama said:


> Ah really? I'm in Japan and I can get the Zoo Meds 'Can O...' Canned insects. I have to order them online within Japan. Do you have Amazon where you live, that's pretty good for finding foreign brands. You'll find canned insects, in the reptile section of websites. If reptiles are kept as pets where you live I'm sure you should be able to get some somewhere. There are also Japanese brand ones which are made Indonesia that I also buy.
> 
> Haha yeh I understand what you mean, I'm not a morning person either! >< luckily for some reason he doesn't mind his mixed food without any insects in it now, but only the morning. At night time he wants to eat insects so it's got to have it in it otherwise he barely touches it haha.
> 
> ...


I'm in South East Asia, I can get frozen grasshoppers though. Maybe I could try that. I put oranges like maybe only once a week or so.
Ya maybe I can try some other veggies instead. Thanks for all the suggestions! I got some shopping to do.


----------



## Yukidama's mama (Apr 4, 2017)

Sure try the frozen grasshoppers if not 

Here's the safe fruit and veggies list (for treats and would apply for gut loading insects too since what your insects eat will be ingested by your hedgie when he eats them ^^)

https://www.hedgehogcentral.com/forums/12-diet-nutrition/17725-treat-list-safe-fruits-veggies.html

You can also so feed your insects the new cat kibble, this helps get your hedgie used to the new flavour, when wanting to introduce new kibble. Just don't feed the dubia roaches kibble as they shouldn't be given anything containing protein.


----------



## zevil (Jun 14, 2018)

Yukidama's mama said:


> Sure try the frozen grasshoppers if not
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm getting the frozen grasshoppers then, and some veggies.

I gave the kibbles to the crickets, superworms and mealworms. They really like it lol.

Update! So I made a mushy mix of carnivore care, mealworms, 3 cut up superworms and 7 kibbles. He did not finish it but ate most of the mix. I suspect it's because I gave him too much and he weighs 289g! The heaviest he's ever been.


----------



## Yukidama's mama (Apr 4, 2017)

Hey, so how is he doing now, how much kibble will he eat? Are you still mixing in carnivore care and the insects and he won't eat that now or did you change something?


----------



## zevil (Jun 14, 2018)

I tried making mashed softened kibbles which used to be his favorite, he won't eat it.

I tried mixing mealworms into the mashed softened kibbles. He ate some of the mealworms.

I tried mixing normal kibbles into his current favorite Carnivore Care and mealworms. He ate some but I believe he did not eat the kibbles.

I tried a mix of mealworms and Carnivore Care. He ate MOST of it.

The bag of Blue Buffalo is a brand new bag I bought, it is not stale. He definitely loves his Carnivore Care but I think it's not good for him in the long run? It's also much more expensive and more time consuming. I have to prepare it just before I go to bed because Carnivore Care will dry up rather quickly, I don't know if he can eat it dry. I also have to thoroughly wash and rinse his food dish everyday because of this. He also likes Dubia roaches, crickets and Turkestan roaches. I'm at a loss, I don't know what should I do now.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk


----------



## Yukidama's mama (Apr 4, 2017)

Sorry to hear you're having issues still. 

So how much blue buffalo kibble are you mixing with the carnivore care and mealworms? Are you softening them first with water and then mixing it all together or just adding the kibble pieces whole? 

I think carnivore care is meant to be a temporary food. It would probably best to slowly wean him off it. 

It's good he at least likes it and different insects. Still no luck with superworms? I use the guts of a superworm to mix with my boys kibble every night. He seems to eat just the cat kibble in the morning without any guts added to it (has to be soaked and mushed still) but in the evening seems to look forward to a fresh mix with the guts lol. I guess he's in a routine. 

Bowls should be cleaned every day anyways. But I know what you mean, since I also feed wet mashed food twice a day it can dry up but I just wash it in the morning so it's not too bad, comes straight off really. My boy likes his food more on the moist/liquid side, otherwise it is too thick and almost sticky mixture and dries up too quickly and he doesn't eat as much. I then give a fresh mix in the morning in case my hedgehog gets hungry during the day, so I'm washing his food bowls twice a day and his water dish every night. If you don't have time to wash them every day, then I suggest buying multiple ones. 

Do you have a blender? Freeze some of the insects to kill them and them blend them up to a paste and add it to the blue buffalo kibble + carnivore care mix. I think you're going to have to very slowly add the blue buffalo and gradually reduce the carnivore care as he gets used to the blue buffalo. Like only adding 3-5 kibble pieces at first and then once he's eating that ok increase it by another 3 kibbles after 1 or 2 weeks. This is how slow I went to get my boy off of hedgehog food and slowly add the cat kibble he refused to eat dry.

How's the rest of his behaviour? Is he still active at night? Pooping and peeing ok?

Other options, would be to introduce a raw food diet. Some people feed commercially prepared raw diets for dogs like BARF etc and supplement with some kibble. Can also feed more insects and some whole prey foods too. There is a lot of information on the forum if you want to look into in more detail and a great Facebook group for raw diets for hedgehogs. I'm looking into it for my boy, just to offer him more variety and better quality food.


----------



## zevil (Jun 14, 2018)

Yukidama's mama said:


> Sorry to hear you're having issues still.
> 
> So how much blue buffalo kibble are you mixing with the carnivore care and mealworms? Are you softening them first with water and then mixing it all together or just adding the kibble pieces whole?
> 
> ...


Sometimes I mixed 5 sometimes a little more. He won't take it. If there're too many kibbles near the surface of the bowl then he might skip the whole bowl all together. I just put the kibbles into the mix, have not tried softening before putting them in. Ya he hates superworms, wax worms, silkworms and all fruits and veggies that I tried.

I do clean the bowl everyday. But with the leftover hardened carnivore care with dead mealworms, it's much harder to clean. I have to scrape it and occasionally the dead mealworms attract flies and ants.

He is active and poop well, has gained 60g since he started his carnivore care diet. Okay I'm gonna look into that raw diet in the meantime.


----------



## Yukidama's mama (Apr 4, 2017)

Ah well that's probably your issue then. even when I've just soaked the kibble pieces in some water and not actually mashed them with a spoon to mix it all up and make a paste my boy wouldn't touch it still! ><

So I recommend trying 3-5 kibble pieces, soak in a bowl using boiled water from the kettle. Let it sit for 15mins (this will be long enough for the kibble to absorb the water and mashing will be easy). Then add this mushy mixture to the carnivore care mixture and mix well in. Add your mealworms... And hopefully you'll have success, I doubt he'll notice 3-5 kibble pieces like this depending how much carnivore care you use. Then gradually increase the kibble as he gets used to it...

That's excellent he's gaining weight! 

How about adding a little more water to the carnivore care so it doesn't dry out so much? If you remove first thing in the morning, just leave the dish to soak in hot soapy water then clean it later on?


----------



## zevil (Jun 14, 2018)

Okay I will try mixing mashed kibbles and carnivore care tonight.

Ya he gained like a 25% but he still isn't remotely overweight, goes to show how skinny he was.


----------



## zevil (Jun 14, 2018)

Good news! I tried softening his kibbles, mashed it up, added his usual carnivore care and mealworms. He ate most of it! I'm making considerable progress!


----------



## Yukidama's mama (Apr 4, 2017)

Excellent! The mashing does make all the difference! Even now sometimes I'll try to not mash up and just leave the a few pieces whole and soaked and he' ll eat less/leave those ones >< 

Hope he continues to eat this way! Once he seems used to it, start adding a couple pieces of kibble in each week and slowly reduce the carnivore care! If he gets any green poop use probiotics to help settle his stomach too and hold off adding more new kibble until it stops again... Basically just switch very slowly to give his stomach time to adjust and also his taste buds!


----------



## zevil (Jun 14, 2018)

Thanks! He really is such a picky one, even more so then me HAHA. I will try your routine and see how it goes.


----------

