# HELP vicious female.



## hikahime (Jun 15, 2016)

hey so i have this female who is just about a year old and ive been trying to breed her. the last time i tried the male was way to old (i found out afterwards) so it was a no go. but before we gave up on him she nit him and ripped like a pit bull with a pull rope. blood everywhere. now, i have tried a second time with a much younger male, (about 8 months) and this afternoon i put them together. they got along fabulously before but when he tried to snuggle with her as he likes to do with me hand and she grabbed him with her fangs by his front left leg and tore at it like the other one. what do i do!!!! have any of u seen this before, how do i get her to not attack the male???:!:


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## FinnickHog (Dec 1, 2014)

It sounds to me like she shouldn't be bred as it's not worth the risk to the male, and if she's that antisocial I doubt she'd handle her babies well. That said, I'm not a breeder, so hopefully one of the experienced breeders comes along with some ideas. In the meantime though I wouldn't try again.


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## hikahime (Jun 15, 2016)

I wanted to become a breeder. Amd i wanted (since she us so nice to human) to breed her because shes a big mama. I dont have the money to drop on another female...its driving me nuts that she cant play nice with the new male. Most of the time they get along on..maybe i put them to close together on the bed (in like a blanket nest) and she didnt want him there...is there any way she just needs some more friend time with him like out in the open. Lets say a fenced in area outside or on the rug first?


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## shinydistraction (Jul 6, 2014)

Don't breed. That's the best thing you can do. This is one of the many dangers of breeding. She could easily kill or be killed by any male you put her with. Or she could severely injure or be severely injured by the male. Hedgehogs don't like each other. This is one of the things you should have known before even attempting breeding. It's full of risk. Even if your female becomes pregnant, there could be complications that mean expensive trips to the vet and possibly losing your female and/or the babies. Breeding any animal should only be done by those that have put in the time and effort to research everything about it and understand fully what they are doing. And really you should have a mentor to go to with questions before starting.

Is this the females first litter? Did you know that the first litter should be delivered prior to her turning 1 year old to avoid serious life threatening complications? Do you know the background of both hedgehogs? Are they both free of WHS going back 5 generations? Are you 100% certain they aren't related? Do they both have good temperaments?


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## FinnickHog (Dec 1, 2014)

Read all of this: http://www.hedgehogcentral.com/forums/24-breeding-babies-help/6160-emergency-baby-advice.html

and this first post: http://www.hedgehogcentral.com/foru...lp/17659-so-you-want-breed-your-hedgehog.html

You're risking your hedgehogs lives by wanting to breed them when your female is clearly telling you no. Are you aware that a mother hedgehog that is unhappy will eat her babies?


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## twobytwopets (Feb 2, 2014)

Before a person takes on breeding we highly recommend a few things. 
1. A mentor. Someone to help you with all aspects from choosing stock to emergencies with babied and everything in between. Any online group or forum cannot do this for you.
2. With the help of a mentor having good breeding hedgehogs. You need hedgehogs free of whs in their pedigree. 
3. Even if all that works out, things can still go wrong. Time consuming and financially wrong. So you must have significant plans and means for those situations. 
4. A vet that is experienced with hedgehogs, preferably with hedgehog ob issues. 
5. Your husbandry needs to be on point. 
6. An extensive understanding of hedgehog behavior.
7. The ability to either keep the babies or find good homes for the babies. If you keep babies, your vet fund needs to increase and you need a lot more space. 
8. A good understanding of how breeding works. It isn't as simple as put two together. 
9. A very strong stomach. You get to see some awful things. You have to continue caring for everyone like nothing happened. 
10. You need to be able give yourself an honest look at your faults. You need to constantly be willing to adjust the way you do things. 
11. Raise at least one hedgehog from weaning to death from a normal lifespan. If your bringing more into the world, you need to understand the changes with aging. 

Until all those are accounted for, you should not breed your hedgehogs.


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## hikahime (Jun 15, 2016)

Shes almost a year . its her first litter. And there is no way they are related got them i different states. Both have been to the vets and have a clean bill (other than female is quilling) (might also have something to do with her grumpys) they both are very friendsly and for the most part get along with humans other animals and even each other ( im asuming she bit him because she didnt know how to get out the neat i made them and freaked out cause he was way to close) i read alot about hedgehogs as much as i could and i realize there is alwaya risks with breeding. But i didnt know they could kill each other. Ive been trying to figure outt the biting issue for a while now and previously no one has had any answers for me even the vet.


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## twobytwopets (Feb 2, 2014)

If you can't afford another female, how would you pay for emergency surgery if she needed it? Coming from different states?? That means nothing at all. They still could be related. Breeders cross state lines too. A breeder can have related stock and live on opposite sides of the country. How close a year is she?


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## hikahime (Jun 15, 2016)

Um between 8 and 9 months


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## hikahime (Jun 15, 2016)

Plus not everyone has 500 sitting around. Im trying to find a passion. And im trying to find a solution u dont need to be so harsh.


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## twobytwopets (Feb 2, 2014)

Are you aware she would need to deliver before she hits a year to reduce the risks. You might be cutting it very close. 
If she isn't pregnant, she shouldn't be bred. If she is 8-9 months old, by the time you wait to determine she isn't, if you bred her again she would be over a year.

*Editing* finding a passion is one thing. For vet bills in a breeder situation, $500 won't cover much. I'm sorry you feel this is harsh, but clearly things are being brought up that hasn't been considered. 
Your female is most likely not a good candidate for breeding. Let your passion be taking care of her as a pet.


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## Artemis-Ichiro (Jan 22, 2016)

My breeder sells hedgies to other breeders because of the great hedgies they have, she ships them all over the country so yes, they could be related. 

And the money issue, before I got my hedgie I had already set a fund for his medical needs for when they arise, and it's over $500 because I don't want to have to kill my pet because I'm an idiot. Also I have vet insurance but I don't think that covers maternity. 

And to add, if you succeed and have let's say 4 healthy babies that survive, you need cages for each one of them and all the set up that comes with it. If you can't afford another female you can't afford any of those things and again, you shouldn't be breeding. 

Want a passion? Follow a sport.


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## nikki (Aug 28, 2008)

You didn't say if you have pedigrees on each of them that can have been checked to ensure the lines are both clear of WHS. A vet check can't check to see if they are carriers of WHS. On clean bloodlines that are WHS free for 4-5 generations should be bred as WHS can skip that many generations. Breeders also need more than $500 for an emergency vet fund. An emergency Caesarian section plus aftercare costs can run well over $1000 and even after that there is no guarentee the female or any babies would survive. Are you prepared to have your female die if there are complications? Do you really want to risk both her and the males life just so you can have a "passion" you want to follow? A better way to do that would be to start rescuing the many unwanted hedgehogs in the country.


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## GsMom (Mar 12, 2016)

If you have a passion for hedgehogs, then you need to step up and act like it. So far, your posts read like you're an irresponsible, immature child, focused on their own wants, without any regard for the living, breathing, sentient little beings involved in your little game.

People who have a passion for hedgehogs, and who decide to breed them, make the commitment to become responsible breeders, first and foremost. And, they willingly accept every bit of physical, emotional, and financial sacrifice that comes with making that commitment. 

Responsible breeders don't breed hedgehogs, just to make more baby hedgehogs. When people have a passion for hedgehogs, that passion drives them to take every step necessary to provide the best housing, best vet care, and most valuable social opportunities for their adult hedgehogs. They maintain healthy, temperamentally sound, genetically stable, WHS-free adult hedgehogs; can produce medical records, pedigrees, and backgrounds for each one of those adult hedgehogs; and selectively choose each hedgehog for breeding, based on their health and behavioral traits, with a goal of ultimately improving the lives and health of pet hedgehogs. 

Passionate, responsible breeders don't throw 2 hedgehogs together, because they're the only ones available at the moment, and they want to breed right now. They would never breed a temperamentally unsound female hedgehog, with a history of aggressive, violent behavior that caused injury to a previous mate, just because they don't have access to a different female. And they'd never knowingly place any hedgehog at risk of physical harm, for any reason. Ever.

They also don't breed, when they don't have the financial backing to address any and every medical need that could possibly arise during the pregnancy, the birth, or with the baby hoglets afterward. That means acknowledging that any exam required for the mother will likely include an ultrasound, and having enough money on hand for that, as well as any treatments and medications required afterward. It also means having enough money on hand to provide care for any hoglet that needs attention, and remaining cognizant of illnesses or congenital problems that could effect multiple hoglets. 

If you don't have enough money to pay the minimal amount required to buy another hedgehog, that means you can't even afford to take either of the hedgehogs you have to the vet, if it were sick or injured, and have it humanely euthanized. The only thing you can afford is to leave it to die a slow, painful death. That's not passion. That's cruel, selfish, and irresponsible.

If hedgehogs are really your passion, and you really want to become a breeder, then your first step is to figure out how to gather the funding necessary to begin properly. Maybe that means working longer hours, getting a second job, selling some of your personal items, applying for a loan/credit card, or whatever else it takes. That's what people with a passion do.


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