# New Hedgie owner. A few questions



## AmbersHoglets (Oct 9, 2010)

I just got my 2 hedgies Piper(salt and pepper pinto) and Joey(reverse cinnamon pinto) yesterday from a breeder in KY. I love them to death already haha . But I was curious of what kind of bedding material would be best? Ive seen allot of people use cloth material, so thats what i have them on. They have pooped everywhere and its actually a bit smelly lol
The breeder has them on Browns Zoo Vital Hedgehog Food, so I have a big bag of that for them. Is this a good brand of hedgie food for them? Ive read that theres some good cat foods out there and wondered if I should change there diet? Or is what they are on is good enough? and if not which foods are the best? I know ive seen the list on here but there are so many on it im not sure which ones to choose lol


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## LarryT (May 12, 2009)

Congrats! They are both SO cute.  Most of us here us fleece liners for bedding. They can be washed as needed to help with the odor. Just be sure to wash them with a unscented detergent. You could try to put a litter box under they wheel to help with litter training. For litter you can use a paper towel and just change it every morning,if you use a cat litter get a non-clumping one like yesterdays news by purina. I would remove the browns from their diet but you need to do so slowly. Some other members will be along to tell you what foods their hogs like.


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## Kenzi (Aug 29, 2010)

Are they male and female? 

If so, they shouldn't be housed together...


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## Puffers315 (Apr 19, 2010)

Congratz on the new hedgies, love the big ears on Joey.

Fleece is the standard material used by owners around here, it has no loose threads which can be a catching hazard for toe nails and sometimes it can even get wrapped around their legs and cut off circulation. Fleece is used because when cut it won't leave any 'raw' edges. Flannel and a few other materials can be used. When used as a liner its usually two layers of fleece, urine will soak down into the first layer but not go through the second, so it'll evaporate.

Most name brand hedgehog foods are not good for our guys, even the stuff that can be used is considered to be junk food, so your guys will need something else.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=15

This is a list of recommended cat foods that we feed our guys, most people will pick our two or three and make a mixture. But don't just change the food outright, you slowly change them over by adding just a little at first to make sure they'll eat it, then you slowly increase the new kibble while decreasing the old food, otherwise they may get an upset stomach. Also some can be very picky eaters, so you might buy a food and find out they won't touch it. You'll want to hold off probably for at least a few days while your guys adjust to their new home.

One question that I have is these guys in seperate cages or in one cage? Hedgehogs are solitary animals and tend to rather be alone in their cage rather than having a roommate. If its a male and female (males have a 'belly button' on their underside) then you'll need to seperate them asap, otherwise the female may become pregnant. Two females are able to live together as long as you provide them with two food fishes, two water dishes, two houses, and two running wheels, but you always need to be prepared to seperate them. Two males cannot stay in the same cage due to territorial issues. If they're female and litter mates, you have a better chance of nothing happening, but most of us house our guys seperate, if we got two females then we usually allow playtime together under supervision, but again males and females can't have playtime together, it only takes a second for them to mate.

Also remember to keep your guys on a regulated light cycle, even though they sleep during the daylight hours, they need 12 hours of light on them, especially this time of year when the days are growing shorter. If they sense the days are growing shorter, than you risk a hibernation attempt, which is not good at all. Any old light can work, from the general room light or hooking a desk lamp up near the cage. Most of us dedicate a light to the cage on a timer, so it turns on and off at the same time everyday. And remember to keep in them between 73'F and 78'F degrees in temp.

Again, congratz on your new guys and hope the information helps, ask anything you think of.


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## AmbersHoglets (Oct 9, 2010)

Wow those where fast responses! . Thanks to everyone who has answered me! 
They are not relate but are male and female. And ARE in seperate cages, dont worry . Ive done allot of research, but am just not sure of the correct food as the breeder said allot of the stuff I have learned here are wrong. He was against the cat food, and the fleece as bedding material. He is strictly a pine or aspen bedding guy lol.. 
And the smellyness from my 2 little ones I wasnt really expecting. The breeder did have them both in the same travel cage so hopefually nothing happned? They both are about 8 weeks old(I was told)


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## LarryT (May 12, 2009)

The breeder does not have a clue that much is certain lol. Salt and pepper hedgies are VERY hard to come by and the salt n pepper you have is in fact a grey or chocolate pinto. Also any breeder thats reputable would never sell a male and female to the same 1st time owner. Hopefully they did not mate  do you know their ages? Pine is not a good choice of bedding but aspen is ok if you must use wood shavings.


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## nikki (Aug 28, 2008)

By having the male and female together in the travel cage at 8 weeks of age, there is a very very good chance the female is pregnant. That was incredibly irresponsible of the breeder, they have to be seperated by 6 weeks and the female can become pregnant anytime after that. I would start treating her as if she is pregnant and read up on all the thread in the breeding section. The breeder doesn't sounds very informed about hedgies, she gave you the wrong info about food, put them together and called the male a "Salt and Pepper" which any reputable breeder knows is a very very rare colour. Its actually a grey pinto. Is this breeder USDA licenced?


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## Kenzi (Aug 29, 2010)

Wow.. your breeder seems more like a 'greeder'. 

The odor might be from poor nutrition. I got my girl yesterday, she is on a combo of 3 cat foods and has no odor at all. I was predicting a little, but so far so good. 

I use fleece liners, and set up a litter tray (which she has used a few times). I moved her poo to it and she is catching on.

Also, you can't tell color of a hedgie until they are at least 9 weeks old.


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## Puffers315 (Apr 19, 2010)

Sadly some breeders are just not the best source of information, but of course in the end its up to you to do what you feel is right or wrong. I've always gone with the advise here at HHC because its not just one person, its owners helping owners.

The two things you said in the last post that make me wary of the breeder is PINE is not a good bedding, there are oils and such that can cause breathing problems and I forget if its Pine or Cedar that has a chemical reaction to urine which can cause low grade burns on a hedgie's underside. Aspen is safe and the only choice when it comes to wood shavings. The second thing is the fact he put a male and female together in one carrier, even as young as they are, there's a good chance they can breed, hopefully they are safe, I would count 55 days from now and make a mark on the calendar, if there are no babies by this point, you are very safe. I had the same thing happen with my female, her previous owner came with her and her brother in one bin but nothing happened. Oh, the one other thing is the term "Salt & Pepper" being used on one of your guys, a true S&P Hedgehog is very rare, but some breeders will claim it.

The problem with Hedgehog branded food is its either formulated for Euro-Hedgehogs which have a different diet than our guys, or its just repacked Rat / Ferret Food that can contain things that are not good for hedgehogs, like rasins and grapes. There just isn't really any good hedgehog food made out there for African Pygmy Hedgehogs, there are some that can be used in a mix of cat food, but nothing that can be straight out.


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## AmbersHoglets (Oct 9, 2010)

Piper(the first pic in my signature) is my girl who he said was a salt and pepper . But yea I wasnt sure who to believe.. Everyone here seems to have very happy healthy hedgies, and he was so sure of himself that everything here was wrong.. That is why im just going to ignore most of the stuff he says and get help here. Im so glad I found this forum! I will for sure look up and treat her as is she is pregnant. I really hope she isnt because Ive read it isnt good for them and can actually hurt or kill them having babies at such a young age .. I want to give them the best care I can so they can live with me and have long happy lives! I hate to find out he gave me the wrong information and later could of have a result in 2 unhealthy hedgies . Im looking into this vet who is about 15 mins away from me to have them looked at. The breeder claims they both where seen by a vet 4 days ago but he had no paperwork or anything..

What do you guys think Piper's color is? and is Joey a reverse cinnamon pinto? I can try to get better pictures of him for you guys if needed.



nikki said:


> By having the male and female together in the travel cage at 8 weeks of age, there is a very very good chance the female is pregnant. That was incredibly irresponsible of the breeder, they have to be seperated by 6 weeks and the female can become pregnant anytime after that. I would start treating her as if she is pregnant and read up on all the thread in the breeding section. The breeder doesn't sounds very informed about hedgies, she gave you the wrong info about food, put them together and called the male a "Salt and Pepper" which any reputable breeder knows is a very very rare colour. Its actually a grey pinto. Is this breeder USDA licenced?


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## AmbersHoglets (Oct 9, 2010)

Oh and I forgot to ad on my last post, He claims to be licensed.. I guess I really dont know if he really is or not though.. I made my hubby drive over a hr away to get them and paid 300 for them alone, but they where, and still are very much worth the money and the drive!

I have a cage that I was going to use for rats that someone gave to me. It has 4 storys. and the middle floor can be closed to make 2 seperate 2 story cages. Its made of wood and the door has wire to keep them in. I was curious if I would be able to use this for piper and joey if I made ladders with a guard rail so they can get from one floor to the other? I have 2 30 gallon tanks im using for them right now(which the breeder told me is ok, but ive read its bad ventilation so i may consider switching out for a wire cage if I cant use my rat cage)


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## LarryT (May 12, 2009)

Piper is grey pinto and the other one does not look reverse pinto at all from that picture i'd guess ruby-eyed cinnicot.

Edited twice for bad grammer/sentence structure.


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## LarryT (May 12, 2009)

Wood can harbor mites and should be avoided when building a cage. You can make it hedgie safe but it's alot of work and not really worth it when so many other cheap cages are readily available. This thread has lots of cage examples; viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1860&start=0


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## AmbersHoglets (Oct 9, 2010)

Alright, I may toss the cage then haha . Thanks so much! Ill get more pictures up of them when my camera battery chatges up so you guys can see more of there coloring to make sure on what they are 



LarryT said:


> Wood can harbor mites and should be avoided when building a cage. You can make it hedgie safe but it's alot of work and not really worth it when so many other cheap cages are readily available. This thread has lots of cage examples; viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1860&start=0


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## LarryT (May 12, 2009)

Don't throw the cage away just yet lol! Post a couple pictures of it to get some more opinions first. I'm no color expert either so wait on more opinions on that as well.


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## NoDivision (Aug 29, 2010)

I don't know who your breeder was... but when I started looking at hogs I contacted all of the breeders I could find listed in KY, and all of them were either very terse and almost rude, extremely unhelpful, or did not answer me at all. I really sort of expected hedgie breeders to be friendly and helpful because everyone on this forum is friendly and helpful, but it wasn't the case at all with the ones I contacted. I can imagine you probably got your hoglets from one of them, since I remember at least one of them listing that they had salt and peppers, and I thought that was highly unlikely. *sigh* I was lucky to find Sherlock when I did.

Luckily you've found this community, and hopefully everyone here can help you out.  Your hedgehogs are very cute and I'm sure you'll provide a great home for them! 

If the rat cage doesn't work out, I really recommend making a C&C cage. They are affordable and really perfect for hedgehogs. I also have to second everyone suggesting fleece bedding. There's just so many issues with wood shavings - they are messy, they can get stuck to hedgies, and in my experience soooo much smellier than anything else. I know babies are smellier anyway, but fleece really will help.

Joey's coloring looks quite a lot like Sherlock's - the quills look a bit darker, but Sherlock's look lighter or darker in different pictures, so that's normal. My boy is a ruby eyed cinnacot pinto, so I think Larry might be right on that guess.


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## AmbersHoglets (Oct 9, 2010)

Ok going to take these pictures I woke piper up and she was fine. cranky as usual lol. But i woke joey up and he was acting a bit off... ive only had them a day so im not sure.. he was kinda wobbly walking around. im thinking he got alil cold or something(im going out today to get something to read the temp) so i put a room heater on... It didnt seem very cold at all so it kinda puzzles me.. but i am getting a tepm guage though!!. i just checked on him and hes acting great now but BOY did that scare me!! Im gonna call the vet and ask them about it and everything just in case ..

But does andyone have any advice on a few cat foods to get them? Looking at the list of aboit 50 different cat foods, im not sure whech to choose lol...

But here are some pictures

Cage








Im using it as storage right now for extra gerbil stuff for my gerbils lol

Piper

















Joey


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## LarryT (May 12, 2009)

Since they are babies I would start with a bag of Royal Canin BabyCat 34,it's sold at petsmart. I would just use that cage for storage.


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## NoDivision (Aug 29, 2010)

They are both daaarrrrling. I'd say piper looks more chocolate than grey? I could be wrong. As for the cage, I'd say no. There doesn't look to be enough floor space for them, and any kind of ladder connecting the levels doesn't seem like it would be possible.


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## AmbersHoglets (Oct 9, 2010)

Yea this was the only guy i found who was decently nice though.. Actually I posted up a wanted ad and hes the one who contacted me. Ive been looking at the C&C cages and actually they seem like the best rout to go 



NoDivision said:


> I don't know who your breeder was... but when I started looking at hogs I contacted all of the breeders I could find listed in KY, and all of them were either very terse and almost rude, extremely unhelpful, or did not answer me at all. I really sort of expected hedgie breeders to be friendly and helpful because everyone on this forum is friendly and helpful, but it wasn't the case at all with the ones I contacted. I can imagine you probably got your hoglets from one of them, since I remember at least one of them listing that they had salt and peppers, and I thought that was highly unlikely. *sigh* I was lucky to find Sherlock when I did.
> 
> Luckily you've found this community, and hopefully everyone here can help you out.  Your hedgehogs are very cute and I'm sure you'll provide a great home for them!
> 
> ...


Ill def look out for that food today! And the cage will be storage only lol. Thats what I figured but it was worth a try asking . It works great for storage anyways!!



LarryT said:


> Since they are babies I would start with a bag of Royal Canin BabyCat 34,it's sold at petsmart. I would just use that cage for storage.


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

AmbersHoglets said:


> Ok going to take these pictures I woke piper up and she was fine. cranky as usual lol. But i woke joey up and he was acting a bit off... ive only had them a day so im not sure.. he was kinda wobbly walking around. im thinking he got alil cold or something(im going out today to get something to read the temp) so i put a room heater on... It didnt seem very cold at all so it kinda puzzles me.. but i am getting a tepm guage though!!. i just checked on him and hes acting great now but BOY did that scare me!! Im gonna call the vet and ask them about it and everything just in case ..
> 
> But does andyone have any advice on a few cat foods to get them? Looking at the list of aboit 50 different cat foods, im not sure whech to choose lol...
> 
> ...


What is not cold to you can be very cold to a hedgehog. You do need to get a thermometer for the cage. Hedgehogs require at least 73F and 75F seems to be the temperature most are comfortable at. Not being warm enough weakens their immune system so keep an eye on him for the next few weeks and watch for any signs of illness.

They are both gorgeous.


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## AmbersHoglets (Oct 9, 2010)

I just got a thermometer so that I can keep an eye on the temp.. I feel like a bad hedgie mom .. But needless to say im just going for all advice from here and not even gonna bother with the breeder I got my babies from... Ok im getting the kitten food from petsmart and gonna slowly switch them over to that. I have them in there own 30 gallon aquarium with a fleece liner. (Im considering getting the C&C cages for them soon though.) Im gonna get some TP rolls for them to play with(after I cut them and round the edges) cat ball toys, wheel, and a nest spot. And of course the heater and ill have a heat lamp set back just in case. Anything else im forgetting at the moment?



Nancy said:


> AmbersHoglets said:
> 
> 
> > Ok going to take these pictures I woke piper up and she was fine. cranky as usual lol. But i woke joey up and he was acting a bit off... ive only had them a day so im not sure.. he was kinda wobbly walking around. im thinking he got alil cold or something(im going out today to get something to read the temp) so i put a room heater on... It didnt seem very cold at all so it kinda puzzles me.. but i am getting a tepm guage though!!. i just checked on him and hes acting great now but BOY did that scare me!! Im gonna call the vet and ask them about it and everything just in case ..
> ...


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## LarryT (May 12, 2009)

NoDivision said:


> I'd say piper looks more chocolate than grey? I could be wrong.


Looking at the added pics piper looks chocolate to me too.


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## Puffers315 (Apr 19, 2010)

Wheels - The only 'commerically' sold wheel that is safe is a Comfort Wheel or Flying Saucer, you want to avoid any mesh floored wheel or wheels with side bars as they can cause injury. The best non-commerical wheel is the Carolina Storm Wheel sold here by LarryT, they are deadly quiet and easy to clean compared to commerical wheels, just beware they are a good size. Wheels are highly important to a hedgie too, they can run anywhere from 5 to 10 miles a night in the wild, so as pets they need one to burn off that energy. You're probably a touch safe now since they are babies and haven't had one yet, and babies sleep a lot.

As for heating, a CHE setup is the best, a CHE (Ceramic Heat Emitter) is a bulb type device that does not give off any light, just heat, kind of looks like a burner off an electric stove wrapped up in plastic. Hedgies when they're doing their own thing at night usually like it really dark, some even completely dark, so this is why a CHE works out the best, otherwise the light might put them off from wheeling and such. Of course with two, you'll need two of each. Two CHE bulbs, Two CHE approved light fixtures with a 10 inch or wider reflection globe, and a thermostat that the light fixture plugs into. Beware there are 'Rheostats' which don't do the same as a Thermostat, they are more or less light dimmer switches. A Thermostat will keep the cages at a specific temperature and turn the CHE on and off as needed, versus the Rheo which will always keep the CHE on.

Beware at the moment since they're in a tank that heating bulbs and CHE can produce too much heat, namely due to the poor ventaliation in tanks. You're already getting a thermometer so you'll be able to monitor it. They work out much better when they're in a cage with air flow.

Speaking of cages, besides using C&C and or a ferret style cage, you can also use storage bins which are very cheap. You get the largest you can find, you cut/melt some vent holes along the sides and can connect multiple bins using 5 inch PVC piping. I think though they run about the same as a C&C though, I've never added up (my guys live in a Ferret Nation setup).


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## LarryT (May 12, 2009)

Puffers315 said:


> The best non-commerical wheel is the Carolina Storm Wheel sold here by LarryT, they are deadly quiet and easy to clean compared to commerical wheels, just beware they are a good size. ).


Thanks for the compliment  My wheels are not that much bigger than a comfort wheel.
On the lowest height setting the CSW is slightly shorter than a comfort wheel. viewtopic.php?f=20&t=4844&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=100


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## PJM (May 7, 2010)

Welcome to HHC & congrats on your new hedgies! I love your signature picture. Looks like Piper is sucking on her foot & Joey looks like a little piggy! SO CUTE!!!!
I am so glad that you found this site. You will get recomendations from people with experience who want what's best for their hedgies. 
I would highly recommend the CS wheel from Larry. I bought a wheel from Cholla's breader & it was pain to clean. 
I love fleece. Easy to clean, less expensive, cute color & patterns. Tried bedding, messy. so, so messy. And you have to keep buying it.
You are NOT a bad hedgie mom. Sounds like you are already a better choice than the breeder.
Just keep up the good work. We are here to help. And, again, welcome!


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