# Illness or teeth problems?



## susanaproenca (Aug 14, 2010)

Some of you know about my Piggy Pete, she eats everything she sees in front of her and it has been like that since we got her in December. 

Last night she ate 24 out of 65 kibble. :shock: She ALWAYS eats at least 60 kibble. It's the first time this happened. 

Considering changes in appetite is the first illness sign. And considering it's Pete so this is totally unlike her. Should I just call the vet right now and take her in asap, or should I wait and watch? She is acting "normal" otherwise. She's warm and I just stuck my finger inside her mouth to get her to open and there's nothing swollen or red looking there.

Now, another thing. Pete is a little over 2 1/2. I think her teeth are a little worn out. They don't look pointy as Mustard's teeth do, and I think she might be missing a few although I couldn't really see that well. I don't think she's lost any since she came to us because I always look for teeth at the food bowl (I know, I'm crazy... :? )

When they start having difficulty eating hard kibble because of teeth problems, does it happen gradually or could it happen like this, one day she just starts eating less? I think I'll damp her kibble tonight and see what happens. 

Any opinions are appreciated!

Thanks!


----------



## rivoli256 (Mar 1, 2009)

being me...i'd probably do the overprotective mommy thing & take her to the vet. if she is getting sick, i want to catch it as early as possible. if it is her teeth, the vet can get a really good look & see what might be going on.

that side, to play devil's advocate, you could wait a day or 2 & see if she was just having an off night. everyone does sometimes. & you may not want to rush her to to vet for a blah evening. 

but i would...cuz i am a weenie.


----------



## susanaproenca (Aug 14, 2010)

rivoli256 said:


> but i would...cuz i am a weenie.


Same thing here. I'd take them to the vet every week if it wasn't for my boyfriend saying "they're fine. Just because they blinked 5 times more than normal, it doesn't mean she's sick." :roll:

I called the vet and he can see me tomorrow morning if I want to take her in. So I'll wait and see if she eats normally tonight. I'll also offer 2 food bowls, one with regular kibble, one with damped kibble. I just gave her a little piece of chicken and she ate it all up! 

One more question: how do I dampen the kibble? I know it's a silly question, but I never had to do that to any pet... just sprinkle a little bit of warm water on top of it?

Thank you for your reply!


----------



## rivoli256 (Mar 1, 2009)

glad to hear she gobbled up the chicken. YAY!

uh, i have neve had to dampen the kibble either. i think we need help. i know how i would do it. but i will refrain from putting in my less than 2 cents...someone else can tell us how to do it correctly


----------



## susanaproenca (Aug 14, 2010)

rivoli256 said:


> i know how i would do it. but i will refrain from putting in my less than 2 cents...someone else can tell us how to do it correctly


I would love to know how you'd do it! :ugeek:


----------



## rivoli256 (Mar 1, 2009)

:lol:  :lol: 

i would get some organic chicken broth (or veggie or beef...i would experiment to see what the little bugger preferred but i would start with chix) & warm it up. i would then experiment with the kibble-to-broth ratio to see what the mush factor is a) after a minute or so & b) after it sits for several minutes. why? b/c i would want it softened, but i wouldn't want it turned into icky mush that my hoggie wouldn't eat...b/c that is probably what would happen. & the one uber-crunchy, rock-hard kibble that would break a tooth that's left would be the only one eaten. :roll: :lol: ergo...i'd find the right volume of broth & then add it to the kibble & let it sit for a little bit before putting it in the cage...so it's softening by the time it reaches the hoggie. my goal would be for kibble that still looks like kibble but is either less crunchy than normal or a bit smooshy (depending on the reason & the preference of the hog...ya still gotta get the food in them!).

i am sure there is a better, smarter, less convoluted way. then again, sometimes the long way 'round is fun!


----------



## susanaproenca (Aug 14, 2010)

That was the main reason of my question, because I don't want it to turn into some gross mush. :? 

I have organic low sodium beef broth and vegetable stock... And i have some homemade beef broth in the freezer. I think I'm off to the kitchen. Be back in a little bit.  :lol:


----------



## Kalandra (Aug 25, 2008)

Has she shown any signs that she was having trouble crunching her kibble? Did you see her acting like it was harder to crunch, was she mouthing the kibble or taking longer to eat each piece? 

If you think softening will help... I would start out by just sprinkling a few drops of water on her kibble. It doesn't take much to change the "crunchability" of kibble. I would avoid broth unless you feel it will spark some appetite. 

Also know that if you end up having to soak her food, that some foods hold their shape and others turn to a sticky goo (doesn't matter how wet it gets, it turns to goo) that per Cooper is not good eats. Cooper is my toothless hedgehog. His diet is nearly identical to what it was previously except I had to find foods that wouldn't turn to goo when soaked. Cooper eats Fromm, Innova, felidae platinum & katz-n-floken. All of these do fine. 

Another thing to consider is how old is her kibble? Is it nearing its expiration date? I've had hedgehogs in the past whose appetites decreased greatly because their food no longer tasted right. And yes one of those times happened nearly over night. One day he was fine, the next he decided he didn't like it. New bag of food solved the problem.


----------



## PJM (May 7, 2010)

One night during cuddle time, I noticed that Zoey had a difficult time eating a piece of kibble. I thought the same thing as you - either illness or teeth. Found a picture of her eating banana & through the forum, helped me see that she was missing teeth. That's why she gets the blended food mix now. 
What I do with Zoey is this... When I clean her cage in the morning, I put dry kibble in her food bowl, broken up a bit, just in case she needs it. I heat up the blended food mix for her to eat during cuddle time.
Then when I put her back in her cage for the evening, I will pour just a bit of water onto the dry kibble. Just enough to come 1/2 way up the kibble. I use water, because it's going to sit there for a few hours. I don't give her moistened kibble during the day because it would sit there for about twice as long as it would at night, if that makes any sence. 
I hope that helps some.


----------



## susanaproenca (Aug 14, 2010)

Kalandra said:


> Has she shown any signs that she was having trouble crunching her kibble? Did you see her acting like it was harder to crunch, was she mouthing the kibble or taking longer to eat each piece?
> 
> Also know that if you end up having to soak her food, that some foods hold their shape and others turn to a sticky goo (doesn't matter how wet it gets, it turns to goo) that per Cooper is not good eats. Cooper is my toothless hedgehog.
> 
> Another thing to consider is how old is her kibble?.


I had been thinking for the past few weeks that it seemed like it was too hard for her to crunch, but because her food intake was normal I thought it was just me being paranoid again. She's always been a pretty slow eater.

I'll test her kibble to see if they all hold their shape. She eats Natural Balance, Katz-n-Flocken and Solid Gold Natural Ultramix.

Except for the Natural Balance all the bags are new, I just bought them a few weeks ago. She isn't favoring any of it so I don't think it's because the food is getting old.

I dipped a baby spoon in the bag of crickets so it would smell like it, and gave it to her now. While she was chewing on it I got to take a look at her teeth and compared to Mustard's teeth, she is definitely missing teeth. And the ones she's got are worn out for sure. Even her fangs are VERY worn out.



PJM said:


> I don't give her moistened kibble during the day because it would sit there for about twice as long as it would at night, if that makes any sence.
> I hope that helps some.


That makes sense and it's something I was wondering about, if it would be ok to let it sit all day.

I will try the dampened kibble tonight, if she doesn't eat normally we will go see the vet tomorrow morning.

Thank you all for your replies!!!


----------



## Kalandra (Aug 25, 2008)

I know the KnF will soak up and retain shape just fine, I didn't try any of the others you mention though.

For Cooper he gets 1 heaping tablespoon dry kibble & 1 teaspoon water in the evening. Of course your experience may be different since you are using different foods. For me, this will soften the food so that he can gum it to chew it. You can try this method first and then try cutting back on the water so that the kibble retains it shape and continues to have some crunch. It really doesn't take much to make it easier to crunch.

Cooper also gets 1 teaspoon of canned food 2xs a day. One in the evening and one in the morning. Cooper has always liked breakfast. He gets weighed and sits and waits for me to bring him breakfast. The evening amount is so that he doesn't have to wait for the kibble to soften before he can eat. He has never been interested in eating fruits/vegetables.

Oh and he has never eaten all of this, I just like to ensure he has plenty in his bowl.

Oh and one more item.... one thing I noticed when we had to switch Cooper to a soft food only diet was that his stool became a lot looser than my other hedgehogs.


----------



## susanaproenca (Aug 14, 2010)

I took her food bowl and put just enough water for it to cover the bottom. Then I put the kibble in it and left it there for a few minutes, mixing it once in a while so that the kibble on the top would come to a contact with the water too.

It got soft, but still had a "bite" to it. All kibble held its shape, none got mushy. It's been over half a hour now and it's still pretty good, not soggy. 

The best part? She sniffed around her bowl for a little while, then started eating normally again! She actually looked happier than usual while eating! And I was so glad to see her eating without struggling to crunch food.  

Thank you so much for all the help and advice. You guys are awesome!


----------



## ThePliny (Jun 3, 2010)

Yay Piggy Pete! Very happy to hear she is back to her chow-ahloic ways!
I often wonder about Pliny and his kibble; sometimes he really has to work to chomp down. I think he is about 2 years old. Although the vet had a look at his mouth when we went in for our ear issue the other day, she said everything looked fine. Maybe I will start offering both; one bowl with dry and another moistened....?


----------



## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

That is good news.  I have numerous on dampened kibble. Because it seemed to come on quite suddenly with her, I suggest her mouth be checked for any teeth or gum problems. It may be nothing at all and her jaws are just getting weaker. 

I've had many who needed a soft diet as they aged. Some were because of lost teeth, but often it was that they no longer had as much strength in their jaws. One little guy was under a year when he started having difficulty. No teeth problems, just weak jaws.


----------



## Kalandra (Aug 25, 2008)

Ah good. At least she feels well enough to eat. Now to figure out why the sudden change in her eating habits. I second the having her mouth checked as a precaution. I'd have doc look at her gums and check to ensure her teeth are not loose.


----------



## rivoli256 (Mar 1, 2009)

congratulations! so happy to hear that is helping!


----------



## susanaproenca (Aug 14, 2010)

Thank you!

I've been planning on taking her to the vet and having him gas her and do x-rays and check her mouth as soon as it gets a little warmer out. 

The reason I had been thinking about having a through check up done is because as some of you might know, Pete has had a pretty tough life prior to being the spoiled piggy she is know. And I wonder if some damage was done, and if is there something I can start doing now to prolong her time here with me.  

What should I ask for the vet to check? What procedures should we have done? I thought about x-rays and blood work. Does that sound right? :?:


----------



## MissC (Nov 15, 2010)

susanaproenca said:


> What should I ask for the vet to check? What procedures should we have done? I thought about x-rays and blood work. Does that sound right? :?:


I apparently paid an extra 40 bucks for an 'extra' parasite test? I would take in poop and have them check that and ask to thoroughly check for parasites (this was just off a skin scrape and the supplied poop).

Snarf LOVES his kibble - especially the Royal Canin, and one piece is always hidden as a treat under his little 'Incredible Hulk' figure - he bee-lines for this figure as soon as he wakes and headbutts it with much noise and finesse. I was worried one night when he didn't seem to be eating it then realized he had been sitting there eating it for a few minutes.

I have been mixing softened kibble with his new soft mix and i think I will soften the other kibble at least alittle bit. I cut some in half (to make it easier for me to see which one he's eating) and they are HARD as rock!!!


----------



## susanaproenca (Aug 14, 2010)

She had a fecal done in December, would it be necessary to have another one done now?

I just spoke to the vet on the phone about having a x-ray done and checking her teeth. I'm worried about having to gas her. How risky is it?


----------

