# No more hedgehog for me... SCAMMED



## metalguru (Jan 30, 2014)

Hi All,

I've been looking forward to picking up a baby that I made a deposit on back in January. The breeder was very prompt in answering all of my questions and returning my e-mails before I made the deposit. However, as soon as I put down the $75.00 which she asked me to send via Paypal (friends & family) and I stupidly complied (as I've done this before- not with a pet- but I was never burned). Anyway, the litter was due in February and I have e-mailed and e-mailed and I have received no response. I will have to eat the $75, my lesson learned but I wanted to warn everyone of this breeder:

Super Hedgehogs
Rachel Robinson 
Binghamton, NY

[email protected]
http://superhedgehogs.webstarts.com/

We are a small breeder of African Pygmy Hedgehogs bringing smiles to faces and adding to the well being of Hedgehogs! We are located in the Upstate NY area, and sell to families looking for amazing pet hedgehogs to love! We breed for temperament and health, first and foremost, like other reputable breeders. Our hedgehogs are raised in a very friendly, safe environment and are held and played with daily to ensure a happy and healthy pet!

I've already alerted Hedgehog Central, however, I feel I need to spread the word about this.

What a huge disappointment.


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## DasIgelPoggie (Oct 21, 2010)

You can dispute the charge with Paypal-- if she doesn't respond then the payment will automatically be refunded.


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## metalguru (Jan 30, 2014)

DasIgelPoggie said:


> You can dispute the charge with Paypal-- if she doesn't respond then the payment will automatically be refunded.


Even if it was sent "friends and family"?


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## nikki (Aug 28, 2008)

If it was sent "Friends and Family" then it is considered a gift to them and you can't file a dispute. You have to send it as a Payment then you are covered by Paypal. Also you only have 45 days to file a dispute and I think it has been longer than that.


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## Latrine (Mar 4, 2014)

Thank you for letting us know!

I've not dealt with her but I'm really surprised. Her website is very professional looking and her list of policies sound as though they are coming from a responsible breeder and animal lover. I know that doesn't necessarily mean anything, websites are easy to make and information is easy to cut and paste but it really surprises me.
I was curious if maybe you were somehow accidentally dealing with someone else just because you said she charged a $75 deposit and her website claims she requires a $52 deposit. Maybe someone else is handling her 'sales' or something. 
But again, that could mean nothing.

I would try emailing her from a different email address, as someone else looking to purchase a Hedgehog, just to see if she responds.

The one thing that has ALWAYS worked for me, as a last resort, is a Better Business Bureau threat. I ONLY do something like this as a last resort. 
I have only HAD to do it a handful of times but I shop online all the time.

If I have an internet purchase that seems to be being ignored after payment, (for at least 2 weeks) I email the person from at least TWO separate emails (I try to be 'sneaky' with the second email, I use one email address they don't know and don't mention myself or the BBB/sale stuff in the topic so that by the time they realize who it is, they've already seen what it's about) anyway, I email them, letting them know I intend to contact the BBB If they do not respond within 48 hours or so. They usually respond immediately, unless there is a real problem.

I'm not sure how much the BBB can actually do to help you if it came to that but I've ALWAYS had the person respond after the email threat.
So, don't go too overboard with it, (hard for me to do sometimes, especially when I feel I'm being taken advantage of!!)

Try the different email address first and if that doesn't work, and the above mentioned PayPal stuff doesn't work, I'd go with the BBB threat.

If she doesn't respond, you can go here to register an online complaint: 
http://espanol.newyork.bbb.org/Default.aspx?pid=317

Best of luck to you, what a horrible thing to have happen when your so excited for your new little one 

- Sarah


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

nikki said:


> If it was sent "Friends and Family" then it is considered a gift to them and you can't file a dispute. You have to send it as a Payment then you are covered by Paypal. Also you only have 45 days to file a dispute and I think it has been longer than that.


That makes it rather suspicious for the breeder to want the paypal payment sent "Friends and Family". I notice she is an IHA breeder. I would contact them and see if they have any luck getting in touch with her. If not, she should be removed from their breeder list.


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## metalguru (Jan 30, 2014)

Thanks for all of the advice everyone! She is definitely the same contact as on the website... I did feel a bit uneasy at the time that she wanted the payment sent 
"friends and family" and unfortunately I went against my gut instinct. However, after corresponding with her she gave me the impression that she was professional and really invested in her pets. I guess I didn't want to rock the boat by questioning her request. 


Anyway, I am going to try with the different e-mail and see what happens. It's just such a disappointment.


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## JimmayAnne (Feb 9, 2012)

Good luck. Hopefully something will get resolved!


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## lilsurfergrlsp (Dec 13, 2013)

This may not really help, but my breeder told me to send money to "friends and family" through paypal, only because I would avoid some kind of fee. But that was really unprofessional, hopefully you get it fixed!


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## nikki (Aug 28, 2008)

Sending money "friend or family" doesn't save you any fees, it saves the seller from paying fees. I do a lot of selling and buying through paypal and would never ask anyone to do that. The fees are only 3% so even on a hundred dollars its only 3 dollars


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## Altearithe (Jan 13, 2014)

lilsurfergrlsp said:


> This may not really help, but my breeder told me to send money to "friends and family" through paypal, only because I would avoid some kind of fee. But that was really unprofessional, hopefully you get it fixed!


Actually, that fee applies only to the one receiving the money for the product/service. So your breeder is avoiding the fee in reality. 
When you send a seller 10 bucks, for a book for example, the seller receiving the compensation gets a certain percentage taken as a fee for paypal. (around 3% I think?)

Whenever people insist on "friends and family", they're pretty much giving up all rights and any protection while trying to avoid the fees, which is illegal and I think a type of fraud.

Honestly, I think it's always safer to just send money via "goods and services" if the breeder doesn't send you an invoice. From a girl who regularly sells online, never send money to someone through "friends and family". Insist on an invoice being sent to your email for documentation at the least if you don't want to use the "goods and services" payment option. And you will be protected. For 45 days at least. @[email protected];

(btw, if background is needed, I used to use paypal's send money function a lot and did a bit of research while trying to learn how to use it in my early days as a seller)

EDIT: lol I leave for a half hour while typing and nikki already pointed out the fee thing. :lol: This is why I love the people here. XD


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## Popple321 (Dec 29, 2011)

Find a rescue and adopt a hedgie in need of a home.  That $75 probably would have covered an adoption fee and then some. Our local rescue is $50 and it does matter if you take a single or a bonded set. Don't give up!


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## Tongue_Flicker (Jun 11, 2013)

Oh sorry for the sham


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

I would try contacting paypal. Do you still have the email where the breeder said to send it friends and family and why? If so, send that to paypal and explain you did not understand there would be no protection. It is certainly worth a try and at the very least it will alert paypal to what she is doing.


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## The_Senator (Dec 31, 2013)

Ah, that's really unfortunate


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## lilsurfergrlsp (Dec 13, 2013)

Hmm, guess I got lucky then, since my breeder actually did send an invoice. Shame you can't trust a lot of people online these days.


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## phoenix1964 (Jan 23, 2014)

Contact your revenue services. Not sure if you are USA based or Canadian. If she is operating a business and not paying taxes they will be able to go after her. Try threatening her with that first. Either she gives you back your money, or you'll sick the tax man on her for tax evasion.


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## Sad and Hedgehogless (Apr 13, 2014)

*Me too*

Please let me know if you have any success with any of these suggested tactics. I also put down a deposit with her in January and haven't heard anything since then. I'm very disappointed.


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## wafflebandit (Mar 17, 2014)

When I put the deposit on my baby, my breeder said to send $52 to cover fees. But she never said anything about avoiding fees or what category to send the money in. I hope this gets worked out. I'm praying for y'all!


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## Cicero (Apr 10, 2014)

Latrine said:


> The one thing that has ALWAYS worked for me, as a last resort, is a Better Business Bureau threat. I ONLY do something like this as a last resort.
> I have only HAD to do it a handful of times but I shop online all the time.
> 
> - Sarah


While a reasonable bit of advice, the BBB it self is a scam. I've dealt with them several times. If someone brings a complaint, the first time to them, their response is to contact the business and explain the issue. Their resolution includes a "Pay our fees, your rating will be an A and we'll list this problem as resolved." Otherwise your grade is an F, and if you do decide to pay their fees after the fact then the highest grade you can receive is a B.

I take the BBB with a grain of salt. Especially if the business in question is not a member.

TLNR version: Dealt with them before, they're extortionists, don't care if someone threatens me with them.

ABC news (an American News company) Even caught on to this. Link for the curious.
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/business-bureau-best-ratings-money-buy/story?id=12123843


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## Cicero (Apr 10, 2014)

Just another point someone mentioned.



phoenix1964 said:


> Contact your revenue services. Not sure if you are USA based or Canadian. If she is operating a business and not paying taxes they will be able to go after her. Try threatening her with that first. Either she gives you back your money, or you'll sick the tax man on her for tax evasion.


Actually that depends. Pay pal's fees are actually not government taxes. They're not even FDIC. It's someone paying for the service of pay pal. And I've paid for things using the gift function. You just have to really trust the person you're buying from.

Now I can't say anything about Canada but I can say this about American law. Avoiding taxes is a big no no, but only if you make over a minimum. If you only make a few hundred a year from your hedgehogs or etsy account, the IRS does not care.

However, if the transaction occurred over state lines then they have committed a fraud and is thus open to potential FBI investigation because it is a federal crime. There are laws that prevent internet fraud like this. But only if both parties are in America and this is an interstate transaction. Because that is eligible for FBI, otherwise you are at the mercy of NY state law and lemme tell you, they have some interesting laws.


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