# Is this food a good food?



## ChelseaSki (Sep 23, 2012)

So I am new on this forum and I just have a couple of questions. 
I have a young male hedgehog named Spike(Yes I know, Lol  ) and he is about 6 months old and weighs 11.55 oz. 
I feed him Purina's Fancy Feast Ocean Fish & Salmon With Accents Of Garden Greens.
These are the ingredients and the analysis.

Brewers rice, poultry by-product meal, corn gluten meal, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), ground yellow corn, soybean meal, animal liver flavor, ocean fish, salmon, phosphoric acid, calcium carbonate, salt, natural and artificial flavors, dried yeast, potassium chloride, added color (Yellow 5, Blue 2, Red 40 and other color), choline chloride, dried spinach, parsley flakes, taurine, zinc sulfate, ferrous sulfate, Vitamin E supplement, manganese sulfate, niacin, Vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, copper sulfate, riboflavin supplement, Vitamin B-12 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, folic acid, Vitamin D-3 supplement, calcium iodate, biotin, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), sodium selenite. 

Crude Protein (Min) 32.0% 
Crude Fat (Min) 16.0% 
Crude Fiber (Max) 4.5% 
Moisture (Max) 10.0% 

I was wondering if this is a decent food for him, this was the food that the breeder I bought him from, fed them.

He also gets meal worms for treats and I try to give him fruits and vegetables once in awhile. 

If this is not a good food for him, what kind of food do you suggest I get for him, please keep in mind that I live in a small area and dont have any real pet stores close by.. Walmart being the best thing thats remotely close. 

Also was wondering what kinds of baby food should I get for him to try.

Thanks so much


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## Erizo (Jul 25, 2012)

The main thing is the protein and fat percentages, and this looks just fine. A lot of hedgie owners are really strong on 'holistic' foods, though the definition tends to get twisted around a lot, depending on who you are talking to.

Some folks won't like seeing rice as the first ingredient or to see corn so high on the label. I tend toward the 'premium' kibbles myself e.g., Solid Gold, Innova), though my vet, interestingly, is generally unimpressed with the 'gourmet' labels and would also say that your choice is fine.

My girl is a runner that has a hard time keeping weight on. She simply will not eat enough volume of 'the good stuff', so she gets a high proportion of Royal Canin Babycat 34 (34% fat) and still has to be watched closely.


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## MurE (Aug 29, 2011)

I can't comment too much on the food you have chosen since I'm no expert on food types. I can comment on some other things though.

If you don't like bad smells, then avoiding seafood in the cat food really helps to keep the smell down. I use Natural Balance Chicken and Pea and Natural Balance Duck and Pea and both of them have no seafood. Blue Buffalo also has a version with no seafood in it. Science Diet isn't as good compared to the other ones, but it also has a version with no seafood in it (chicken and rice, I think).

Mealworms and fresh fruits and veggies are good. Just double check with the safe food list to make sure they are okay to feed to hedgies.

I tried baby food recently for Poggles and I tested an organic chicken and vegetables version. I read that the meat versions are the most popular among hedgies. Anyhow, he annointed with a whole spoonful the first day and it was a fantastic mess. I just kept giving him more though since he was already so dirty and I figured he was accidentally eating some. He usually avoids vegetables like the plague. 

So he was willing to eat about half a teaspoon or less every day after that first day, but that was it. It seemed to make his poops a little more liquidy, so I didn't want to give him too much anyways. The main problem with baby food is that it's a small jar, but that's a lot for a hedgehog that only eats half a teaspoon or less per day. I froze half of it, but the frozen stuff seemed to go bad faster. Plus he didn't seem to like it as much as when it was fresh from the jar. So maybe put them into an ice cube tray with one teaspoon per slot so that you only defrost a small amount at a time. It's really hard to chip frozen baby food off a bigger frozen block.

I think an ideal situation is that you have a baby nearby that will donate one teaspoon out of his fresh jars each day... ah, wishful thinking!

Anyhow, if your hedgie is already eating fresh veggies and mealies, I sort of wonder why you would want to add baby food too. I question the "goodness" of a food that can sit on the shelf in a jar for so long.  Poggles won't eat veggies so I use it, but I'm not a big fan of it.


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## Tabi (Jun 24, 2012)

It doesn't look like the BEST.. But not bad. The dyes are what worries me. And the corn meal, its just a filler.


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## AngelaH (Jul 24, 2012)

Welcome to the forum!
I would say your protein and fat %'s seem right, this food probably isn't terrible, but I feel you might be able to find a better option. I would look to see if you can find something with a similar % but with a meat as the main ingredient. Read through the food and nutrition pages on here to find what to look for as you are choosing a food. I know it is hard, most of the recommended foods are at Petco/Petsmart and specialty shops, and cost a fortune! See if you can get "Purina One Beyond" near you, its Purina's more natural line and is a good one, affordable, and may be in stores that sell Purina. Its what I use. I haven't looked into it, but maybe buying food online if you can't find something that works near you. 

When do we get to see pictures of the little guy?!?


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## FamilyOfExotics (May 19, 2012)

I don't think it is a horrible food, but it isn't the best either. I'm not an expert though, all my knowledge is just from reading and doing research. 

I don't really like this food since it does have rice as the very first ingredient. Normally you would want a good meat as the main ingredient. I'm also worried about the by-products.. Normally by products are the pieces of animals that are left behind, like the beaks and feet. It's not generally the best source of nutrition when using those types of by products. Corn is really high up in the list, which isn't very good because like Tabi said, it is just a filler. Corn basically has no nutritional value. The animal fat is very generalized as well, which just seems a little fishy to me. The first animal fat in the ingredient list basically marks the end of the major ingredients in the food. So this food is mainly composed of rice, chicken by-products, and corn. I also would be a little worried about the added colours, there have been some links to cancer and added dyes in food. 

The percentages aren't horrible either, but most hogs do best with under 35% protein and under 15% fat. Of course, every hedgie is different and only you would know if your hedgehog needs higher or lower fat content  

I myself wouldn't use this food, but it is far from horrible! Walmart really doesn't carry the most nutritious food to begin with, but you work with what you have


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## hedgielover (Oct 30, 2008)

Personally I wouldn't use a food with poultry by-product meal in it at all and this is the second ingredient and the main meat source. So IMO not a good food.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

I'm going to be a bit more frank than the rest of the answers - the food is crap. :lol: Here's an explanation of why I say that:

The main ingredients are going to be the ones up to and including the source of fat/oil. So the main ingredients in this food are Brewers rice, poultry by-product meal, corn gluten meal,and animal fat. Now here's a definition for each of those igredients:

*Brewers Rice*
AAFCO: The small milled fragments of rice kernels that have been separated from the larger kernels of milled rice.
(So it's not even whole rice - it's just leftovers.)

*Poultry by-product meal*
AAFCO: Consists of the ground, rendered, clean parts of the carcasses of slaughtered poultry, such as necks, feet, undeveloped eggs, and intestines, exclusive of feathers except in such amounts as might occur unavoidably in good processing practices.
(So this is everything BUT meat - none of the things an animal would go for first, and not really anything very nutritional. It's best to avoid by-products of anything, since they rarely include actual meat in it.)

*Corn gluten meal*
AAFCO: The dried residue from corn after the removal of the larger part of the starch and germ, and the separation of the bran by the process employed in the wet milling manufacture of corn starch or syrup, or by enzymatic treatment of the endosperm.
(Corn gluten meal is used mainly to bind food together and boost the protein content. It's again a leftover that's used because it's cheap.)

*Animal Fat*
AAFCO: Obtained from the tissues of mammals and/or poultry in the commercial processes of rendering or extracting. It consists predominantly of glyceride esters of fatty acids and contains no additions of free fatty acids. If an antioxidant is used, the common name or names must be indicated, followed by the words "used as a preservative".
(This can come from any kind of dead animal - it doesn't have to be slaughtered, which means it can be even be from euthanized or diseased animals. It's mainly used to flavor the food so that it tastes better despite not having very much nutrition.)

Another big problem I have with the food is the food colorings being used. Food colorings are added for the owner's benefit, so the food looks prettier. They don't benefit the animal at all, and they can actually cause problems like allergies in dogs and cats.

If the OP or anyone else wants to learn more about pet food ingredients, I highly recommend this website - http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=main A lot of the facts and information I had already learned before finding the website, by working at a petstore. We received training on how to read pet food labels and ingredients there, so we could help customers with questions.



Erizo said:


> The main thing is the protein and fat percentages, and this looks just fine. A lot of hedgie owners are really strong on 'holistic' foods, though the definition tends to get twisted around a lot, depending on who you are talking to.
> 
> Some folks won't like seeing rice as the first ingredient or to see corn so high on the label. I tend toward the 'premium' kibbles myself e.g., Solid Gold, Innova), though my vet, interestingly, is generally unimpressed with the 'gourmet' labels and would also say that your choice is fine.
> 
> My girl is a runner that has a hard time keeping weight on. She simply will not eat enough volume of 'the good stuff', so she gets a high proportion of Royal Canin Babycat 34 (34% fat) and still has to be watched closely.


To be honest, while I think the holistic foods are best, there's a lot of foods out there that aren't holistic (by whatever definition you might give that, I agree there's a lot of variation on that) that would still be better. I wouldn't put a lot of faith in your vet's opinion - keep in mind that vets aren't nutritionists, that they get a lot of funding from major pet food lines, especially for advertising for them (my vet always recommended Science Diet because Science Diet gives vets so much money), and that (while I hate to say this about a vet, but it's true sometimes) if your pet has more problems, that means they get more money. :? Unfortunately, not everyone is 100% looking out for the animal's best interests.

To the OP, some other foods you might be able to find at Walmart that would be better than this are Purina One Beyond (I know a number of breeders and other good owners that feed this) and Iams (while not perfect, is still better than Fancy Feast foods, or most of the others you'll find at Walmart). Take a look around at your Walmart and check ingredients - your Walmart might have something that isn't listed on the website that might be good. If you're not sure, you can always take a picture of the ingredient list and post it for second opinions. 

I fed Lily baby food as a regular part of her diet and she loved it. Some popular ones are chicken or turkey, sweet potatoes, and peas. All three of those were favorites of Lily's, as well as green beans. I've read that other hogs like carrots a lot too, but she loathed them. :lol:


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## hedgielover (Oct 30, 2008)

Lilysmommy thank you for writing what I wanted to say but didn't have the energy for at the time.


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## LizardGirl (Aug 25, 2008)

Ditto what Kelsey said, it's a pretty crappy food and there are much better ones out there. If you want to buy his food at Walmart, there are two Newman's own formulas I believe that are pretty good, their Evolve brand is good, and the Purina ONE Beyond (there's a chicken formula and a salmon formula) are decent. Just be sure not to get any other Purina foods besides the Beyond brand, the others are pretty awful!

If you have a chance to order a bag of food online or go to a shop that'll special order for you, one of the foods I consider the best used on its own is Fromm Gold Mature. I don't use it (I use the Adult Gold and Salmon A La Veg in my mixes) but it has low fat and great small kibbles. If you need a bit more fat, I recommend the Salmon A La Veg. I know a lot of people here don't like using fishy foods but I have never noticed a "smell" difference when using them.


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## SquiggyTheHedgie (Jul 26, 2011)

I actually use the Evolve Kitten formula and Wellness Indoor for my food mix, and I gotta say its working out great. Evolve is made with real chicken, and has tons of fruits and veggies, and very few fillers.

Ingredients: Chicken, Chicken Meal, Ground Brown Rice, Corn Meal, Corn Gluten Meal, Chicken Fat (Preserved With Mixed Tocopherois), Natural Flavors, Dried Egg Product, Fish Meal, Brewers Dried Yeast, Potassium Chloride, Flaxseed, Canola Oil, Calcium Sulfate, Lecithin, Salt, Taurine, DL-methionine, L-lysine, Dried Skim Milk, Dried Kelp, Dried Cheese Products, Yucca Schidegera, Cranberries, Blueberries, Tomato, Carrots, Celery, Beets, Parsley, Lettuce, Spinach, Lactobaccillus Casei, Bifidobacterium Thermophilum, Enterococcus Faecium, Vitamins: Choline Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate (Source of Vitamin B1), Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Source of Vitamin B6), Riboflavin Supplement, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Minerals: Zinc Polysaccharide Complex, Iron Polysaccharide Complex, Manganese Polysaccharide Complex and Copper Polysaccharide Complex, Zinc Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Calcium Iodate, Cobalt Carbonate, Sodium Selenite Guaranteed Analysis: Crude protein (minimum) 37.0%, Crude fat (minimum) 18.0%, Crude fiber (maximum) 4.0%, Moisture (maximum) 11.0%, Ash (maximum) 6.5%, Magnesium (maximum) 0.09%, Taurine (minimum) 0.18%, Calcium (minimum) 1.2%, Phosphorus (maximum) 1.15%w

And the percentages:
Crude Protein (minimum)37.00%
Crude Fat (minimum)18.00%
Moisture (maximum)11.00%
Ash (maximum)6.50%
Crude Fiber (maximum)4.00%
Taurine (minimum)0.18%
Magnesium (maximum)0.09%

Overall, not bad for a brand sold in Walmart


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## ChelseaSki (Sep 23, 2012)

Thank you so much everyone. The only reason I was using this food is because the breeder I got him from was feeding it to the parents and to him, and it just seemed easier to keep him on the same food. But I will be looking at wal-mart for some of the other reccommedations, and as wel as ones that just generally have more meat in the ingredients!  
I was wondering how I go about changing his food, is it the same as with a dog? slowly over a week's time? 
and about the fruits and veggies, I should have said, I TRY feeding them to him, he usually shuts me down, I tried blueberries, with no skin, which he liked a little bit, strawberries, which he shut down completely, apple, which was another big no. He doesnt like eggs. I gave him Chicken, and he just chewed it up and self-annointed all over himself.
I bought some baby foods today, I bought him sweet potatoe, blueberry, and apricot. All seperately, that combo would be nasty.
Anoter question about food, I chop his food up for him.. I started because I didnt realize that the food had become stale, and it was kind of soggy, and as he was eating, he actually started choking one night, so after that I have been cutting it up.. 
I bought a new bag of food, and tried to give it to him whole, and he doesnt seem to eat as much when its whole as when its cup up.. im not sure if he is just lazy and doesnt like the chewing or if he just has a hard time.. 
Is this okay? 

And for the photo question, I wanted to upload one of him, and one of his cage, but everytime I try to upload, it says they are too large.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

Yes, a food change should be done slowly, just like with a dog. People usually recommend over two weeks, but just see how he does. The standard formula is 1/4 new to 3/4 old for several days, then 1/2 and 1/2 for another several, then 3/4 new to 1/4 old, and so o. n. If he gets green poop at some point during the change, give him an extra day or two to adjust before moving the next step up. 

They can be pretty picky about trying new things. :lol: Just keep trying, and offer things more than once, and in different forms. Sometimes it takes a few times before they'll give it a try. It also helps if you leave the new food in the cage overnight, sometimes they'd rather try something new when you're not watching. And actually, with baby food, I did big batches of mixed baby food, with 1-2 meats, 3-4 veggies, and 1-2 fruits that I mixed all up and froze in ice cubes trays. I then thawed out one cube each night for Lily and she loved it. You'd think the combination would taste disgusting, but she would eat any kind of mix just about, as long as there was a meat in it. :lol: It was a good way to give her a little more variety of fruits/veggies because even with baby food, she would only eat apples, sweet potatoes, peas, and sometimes green beans on their own.

If the food pieces are bigger or a weird shape, he might be having some trouble chewing it, especially as a baby. If you think he eats more with it cut up, it's perfectly fine to continue cutting/crushing it up for him and I'm sure he'll appreciate it!


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