# The Journal of Hester & Loki



## Puffers315

[ Hester Sue ]

Time to introduce my second hedgehog, Hester Sue. She arrived in the middle of my Vera Lee's illness so I didn't have the time to interact with her. Of course she was kept in a seperate room and I changed my clothing and even showered between visiting her and Vera who was kept in the Hedgehog Mansion (ferret nation double decker) in my room. Since Vera passed yesterday and after a major cleaning of the cage with bleach water followed by the vinegar mix with extended airing time, she has now taken up residence in my room.

Her story in part is told in the rescue section, I found her and her brother up on eBay Classifieds, which I see now was Kiliji, apparently eBay took them over. After talking to the woman via e-mails, I thought it was someone who knew what they were doing with hedgehogs, but in fact turned out to be the opposite, someone who has many pets and does animal shows with other people. I met her in Alexandria Bay to pick up this girl, so she came and wanted to show me both of them. I arrive, she's in a white mini-van, there is a Mastif Dog with her in the front seat, which of course starts barking his head off the second I pull up, get out, a little introduction, and then she pulls the bin out of the back with two really ticked off hedgehogs balled up in a corner, yeah, together, one bin. We talked for awhile, I did mention pregnancy and she said oh no, that she listen at night for the sounds of them making whoopie, I said very little, and in short I'll be holding my breath for at least 60 days. I hope she's right and that Hester isn't pregnant for various reasons, the obvious being a litter of inbred hedgehogs.

She's 17 and very large, Vera was a petite hog so I'm suprised by the size and of course, thinking preggers though from the sounds of it, there is no way of telling until a litter appears. She has had little handling, so she is a giant bull of clicking, hissing, popping fun, and actually to me it is kind of fun since Vera was so tamed and out going, I'm experiencing the true hedgehog experience. But she is slowly coming out of it, getting use to her surroundings. Sound seems to be a major issue, just about everything like the hiss of a soda bottle opening makes her twitch and semi-visor her face. But she is coming around, at first even the TV had to be muted before she'd become active, but now she's being out more with it on, and other sounds like fans since its been hot here.

She's also a climber, something Vera never attempted. When I cleaned her cage I put her in the pen I had built for Vera which was out of pine boards, 4 inches tall. I turn around and she's got herself half way over the top of one corner, I run over before she escapes and of course balls up and drops down. So I'll be investing in the ones I've seen around here on HHC. She loves her wheel and does about 90 on it.

Tonight was our first bonding session, picked her up with fleece cause she turns into a very sharp spikey ball, but I sat here at the computer for a good two hours and after maybe 15 minutes, she finally unballed and then proceeded to snooze on me. So its been a trip, now for the cute pictures.


















- Annoiting with the ball, she's been doing this constantly, but well, new smells.









- Her Cage Setup, was built while she was secluded, this was her first night in it, she decided to sleep in the entrance of the second level tube, you can see her fat behind. When I got up this morning, she decided sleeping under the liner was more suited to her taste.









- The Hedgehog is not pleased.









- Wait, is that a mealworm?









- Hester at 12 weeks in her classified ad.









- Hester at 12 weeks in her classified ad.

PS: She is licking her nose a lot, but not sneezing, nor any mucus of any kind coming out, but either way we're on URI watch for the moment, I'm hoping its just allergies as the pollen is thick like butter around here, plus she stopped after about a half an hour of being fully awake. I got an air purifier that I haven't been running and the windows have been open 24/7 due to the heat, so we'll see. Purifier will now be on 24/7.


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## Puffers315

*Re: Hester Sue*

Need some suggestions here, I've been working on socializing her but she is one mean mofo, not biting but giant ball of hissing, clicking, popping, totally enraged hog. I just tried to get her out of the cage to snuggle as that is what she has been doing and just totally got spiked in my fingers, through the vent tube that goes to her loft. Its where she chills at night until about midnight, sleeps until about 9:30, gets up, eats and drinks some kibble, then chillaxes in the tube until about 11:30, then its a whole night of on and off rampaging around the cage itself, lots of wheeling.

Main question, should I totally rip her from her bed to bond with her, seems to me like she'd not enjoy that and associate me with having her peace and quiet sleep disrupted night after night. In the end I'm thinking she might be one of those hedgehogs that might not want anything to do with me, thanks to the people who had her before that didn't bother to do anything with her. I'm fine with that in general, I know she's in a better place, but man oh man.

And yeah, I know its only been a week, mainly wanted to ask about getting her up while she is sleeping, only time will tell with this one.


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## nessariel

*Re: Hester Sue*

I was told by the breeder I got Winston from that you should get them out for bonding regardless how grumpy they are about it, otherwise they learn that huffing and clicking and being extra pointy gets them their own way, and so they're more likely to act that way. You have to handle her for her to get used to you, so, unfortunately (for her) you're going to need to wake her up. I find, with Winston, he's grumpy at being woken up, but if I hold him covered up by his fleece blanket, he'll just go back to sleep on my lap.


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## lover_of_the_spiked1

*Re: Hester Sue*

congrats on sue  hope things get better


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## Puffers315

*Re: Hester Sue*

She does the same as Winston, though never actually goes to sleep. Like I said in her original description, she kind of watches me with one eye, but she's a very paranoid girl.










That's her being snuggly or at least saying "I give up, I'm just going to lay here". She wins tonight cause she's held up in the tube. I'm thinking maybe I should design a different ramp for the loft that would allow me to be able to grab her out of it. Anyone got any suggestions on what to use as the ramp floor itself? Its a Ferret Nation cage, so it has that wire type ramp, its being used to hold the vent tube at the moment. The sides are easy, I can get plexiglass from work and scrub it down, but just unsure of what to use for the ramp floor besides wood. Maybe wrap it in fleece?

Also would help since she's got the habit of going to the bathroom in the tube itself, and at the moment its zip tied down and hard to clean out. I'm thinking wrapping the ferret nation ramp with fleece, then attaching high walled plexiglass on either side.


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## nessariel

*Re: Hester Sue*

You could cover the floor of the ramp with coroplast or another sturdy piece of plastic. It would make it both easy to wipe down, and safe for little hedgie feet.


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## Puffers315

*Re: Hester Sue*

I just wanted to check cause I can't find the right answer or well, a general answer through my forum searches. Whats the general age range for quilling?  Hester I think just hit 19 weeks or so, I'd have to check (I put her birth around Feb 1st) and I do believe has gone into probably the final quilling phase. Put it this way, I cleaned and changed her liners out Sunday night and when I got her out monday, there was a good 20+ little quills kicking about her sleeping area (she sleeps under basically one of her liners). She's still too, umm, "lovely" to get a good check, and she is extra "lovely" since this started. But I think I read it can happen anywhere around this time, give or take a few months.

Besides that bonding is going, well kind of fine, she's going to be one that takes time, that is for sure, but she is a cutey.


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## hedgielover

*Re: Hester Sue*

The fact that you've already gotten so many pictures of her opened up and laying out on you says to me that she will socialize well. It took me months of handling before Quigley would even unball for more a second or too. In all of my early pictures of him he is either balled up or hiding his face with his visor Quills. His quills rarely lay flat like a relaxed friendly hedgehog. He is also sensitive to noise but over time I discovered which noises are more likely to set him off and so can try to avoid them.


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## Puffers315

*Re: Hester Sue*

Yeah I got no doubts with time and effort she'll become a well rounded hedgehog, its just the home she came from was so rough with sound and she wasn't handled much until I got my hands on her. Even so she comes out of the ball within a minute, except right now but I'm sure that's cause she's gone into quilling.

Her things are noise and shadows, S sounds kind of like hissing or say the shadow of my arm moving across her face will prompt her to drop visor, and at the moment any contact makes her raise her quills, picking her up prompts the ball and much noise. But in the end, she's totally cool and evil acting hedgehog. Main thing is Vera my first hedgehog who was only with me for such a short time was such a well socialized thing, never balled, clicked, pops or hissed. Would huff at me when I went to pick her up and right near the end she even stopped that. The norse gods graced me with her just to show me what a well social hedgehog can be like. She didn't even ball up at the vets. Then Hester comes along and has shown me what a hedgehog can do, but she is a cutey.

So is Loki in solitary from what I've seen, he's keeping himself pretty hidden from me, I think last night was the first time I actually saw his face.


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## hedgielover

*Re: Hester Sue*

Yeah when I bought Quigley I had no idea what he looked like, or if he was male or female. It took a few days of sitting with him in the dark before I got a peak at his face and a few more before he opened enough to sex him. Good luck with both your little hedgehogs.


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## Puffers315

*Re: Hester Sue*

So it seems Hester's sudden quilling has stopped, was like a layer of her tiny baby quills from the looks of them. Have seen changes in personality in the last few days, good ones.

- Up until tonight her cage had been 3/4th covered, leaving maybe a 4 inch space at the bottom so i could see her in general move around, but also made the cage darker. Zero cover tonight, minus a towel I have pinned on the right hand side of the cage, this is namely to block off the general light of the tv at night (remains on all night).

- She was less aggressive with me, less jumps towards noises and this includes the addition of me installing the AC on friday, which produces a fair amount of noise. She was running on her wheel and stopped for a moment, even kind of laid and stared at me. I moved across the room to her cage (roller chair + wood floors = fun and yeah lazy) and was able to basically open the door and rest my chin on the cage, we stared for awhile and then she ran with me right there.

So things have improved, I think this is the three week mark with her. She's now laying down in a tube (4 inch vinyl vent tube). This seems to have become habit with both. She naps either in her loft tube or a second piece I have just in her cage during the night, more or less naps and I know she's up at different times at night. Going now to see how she reacts to me.

Loki on the other hand has taken up residence in his loft tube, guess he had a fight with his hedgie bag... :roll:


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## Puffers315

*Re: Hester Sue & Loki of the North*



> Well I had something totally different posted tonight which includes a few questions, but then I had a turning point with Loki that kind of said "this one will be easy", so I deleted what I had and restarted.
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> Behold, Loki of the North, named so since there is already another Loki hedgehog on this board (Sela). This is the name given to him by his previous owner, I liked it so i didn't feel the need to rename him.
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> Since after the joy that was my Vera, I decided to see how two were. Of course this falls into Vera's story, as several days before the arrival of my 20 week old Hester Sue, Vera became sick, and soon passed away. So for only a short period of time my house had two hedgehogs, one who was very sick and being taken care of, while the new arrival was just left to the wind. Of course after Vera passed, I began the social work with Hester Sue, which as you can read in her thread, she's a piece of work.
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> I've developed the bad habit of watching Craigslist, eBay Classifieds (which was the US version of Kijiji), and have posted a few rescues up on HHC from what I find, I came across this guy. What really caught my attention was the fact he was only a couple of towns over, Vera came from Oswego New York, which is a good 3+ hours from home, and Hester Sue came from Cape Vincent New York that was 2+ hours away. There is only a couple of breeders here in New York, in Western NY which might as well be the south pole to me, so I became interested in Loki due to the fact he was only two towns over.
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> So i struck up a conversation with the guy. The story is simple, and it seems I've become the frat house of college hedgehogs. Hester Sue was a hedgehog who's owner is going to college in the fall, sadly she came from a bad home who's owner did not socialize with her and the girls mother became the 'caretaker', and not an overly good one for hedgehogs. She was more or less sold just to be 'rid of'.
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> Loki on the other hand came from a caring owner, who is also going to college in the fall and pets are not allowed in the dorms, and he didn't want to 'sneak him in' just in case of being caught, and just the general stress of strangers all around. Sadly the college he is going to, one of several local, has also had some 'pet problems' involving other dorm members and more or less animal abuse. Someone had a small finch which was bought as a joke for one friend, who grew sick and annoyed at it, so they proceeded to torture it with sound, ended up in a trunk with a big booming stereo and killed it.
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> Loki was described as a cuddler when woken up in the afternoon or early evening, enjoys snuggling armpits and just being held. Loves to wheel and plays tug of war, said was friendly to people and would lower his quills quickly once he got a good smell.
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> The guy himself is going to college with the idea of becoming an exotic vet that would be capable of taking care of the really strange ones, such as hedgehogs and for around this part of New York, even ferrets to a degree. Closest good vets are 1.5 hours west of my location and there's no interstate around here. (I'm in the northern most part of New York, across from Cornwall Ontario right on the border).
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> So he came home a week ago Saturday. Isolation from Hester is being done in the same room, I have the cages seperated at maximum distance, air filter box between the two, and I don't cross handle them daily unless I take a shower, and have been dedicating every other day to one or the other.
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> One funny thing that caught my attention was I had asked about age several times in our e-mails back and forth, and never got a straight answer, until I was there to pick him up. Turns out he is 2 years old, and this is his second rehoming. Doesn't matter to me, yeah I want a baby at some point in my 'hedgehog career' but the older ones need homes too. So I took him.
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> [ March of the Hedgehog ]
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> I picked him up a rainy Saturday morning (June 5th). Guy lives out in the country on a horse farm, also had learned that his mother is a vet who teaches the vet tech courses at the local college, thus very proper animal oriented people.
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> We talked for a bit, he had Loki in a shoe box with his hedgie sack and little pop tent (thats the same size as he is). He gave me that, and his old cage, and off we go home. I check a few times on the short drive, 30 minutes maximum, and he kind of bounces around in the box from his sack to his tent. You look one time and just saw the sack filled up, look again and his butt was sticking out of the tent (he fits in, like a glove).
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> I had originally written this post as more of a record of questions I had, I was unsure if I was socializing with him correctly, Hester Sue's sessions are totally different since she is a beast, a nice beast, but since he was suppose to be socialized well, I know it would be a different path. All his days this week have involved him in his sack, sleeping on me while I sit at the desk.
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> When he arrived here Saturday, he stayed in his sack until Sunday Night / Monday Morning. He came with a Comfort Wheel, and was living a storage bins with some sort of wood bedding, he was changed over to my own bins and fleece. But I attached the Comfort Wheel to the side of the bin with the base on, and it seemed kind of tall, took it off and then just secured the wheel with no base. Went to bed early, which my room is kind of an apartment too, so its my tv, computer, bed, cages, etc. The cage itself is on the other side of my night stand, so close to me while sleeping.
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> Not sure what woke me up that night, roughly 3am, had gone to bed at midnight. For some reason turned on the light, and found him in the wheel. He is a big fella, first time on the scale tonight and he's 456 grams. I thought Hester was big at (420 grams) while poor Vera was a mere 295. Sadly his bulk had made the wheel press against the side, and no longer function. I felt bad for him, reached in which of course made him run at 90 for his sack, took the wheel out, put the base back on, put it back in the cage and then take a small tool kit for computers I had laying around, wrapped it in fleece and made a step in front of the wheel, went to bed.
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> Wake up Monday, I find him in the bottom of the wheel, I think shocked cause the second I wake up, the lights come on in the cages (6:05am). I open the cage and put my hand near him, and of course visor down with a big huff and some clicking. I check his food and water (and Hesters) and go do my morning routine. Checked on him again before I left for work (12 hour shift).
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> That night I decided to put up a cover over the front of the cage, he hadn't come out the previous nights, so I felt maybe with the whole change of habitat and surroundings, maybe it'd help if he was kind of hidden. Did the trick, did that and turned off the lights, about an hour later I hear the wheel start going.
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> Did this all week. His days have been Monday - Wednesday - Friday for socializing which as said, involved him in his sack, laying on my stomach here at the computer desk. Every once in awhile he'd spin around, take a look at me, and spin back in.
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> Now I had been contemplating trying to dump him out of the sack to socialize with him, but the first night I did find green poop in the cage, didn't want to stress him out too much. But last night, he was actually out and about in his cage, and I decided to reach in and grab him. Balled up, made lots of noise, did come back out quickly but was very cautious. Spent maybe 10 minutes on my bed, he explored just a little but visored up to everything.
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> Then tonight is when I felt, everything was going to be good with him. Again snatched him out of his cage tonight, balled up and popped and clicked at me. Picture above is us at the desk with him under my desk lamp. But tonight he actually explored, was less grumpy once he came out of the ball, did get into my armpit but wanted to annoit, and I didn't feel like having my flesh bitten (she's bit me once after much licking and me knowing it was coming). It was cool and of course the pictures below is from our quick 30 minute session.
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> Well what kind of told me everything was going to be alright, was the fact that he let me pet him (minus any face or underbelly touching) with minor or no hissing. And well, not to be gross but when I put him back in the cage, he seemed cool enough with his new home to basically make 'love' to his hedgie bag aka "boy time". I felt if he is comfortable enough to do that, without the cover over the front of his cage, that he'll bond quickly and well with me. He's sleeping (of course) right now, and then he'll be back up and wheeling at 3am. The other thing was there had been a lack of poop in the cage, and well I found a man size one after a short period of wheeling, before we had our session.
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> So I present, Loki of the North, of the Hedgehogs of Saint Lawrence County. Can anyone roughly guess his color, cause this was an issue with the owner. He wasn't exactly cheap for a 2 year old, but from what I see proper rehoming price range. But he was described as a "Liver/Chocolate" hedgehog, and that he had more browns than the traditional salt and pepper, which of course I know he's confusing the colors that people like to call S&P, but since those are rare.
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> I can work on more pictures if needed. He has no pinto markings, the quills are uniformed with no patches.
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> Mask is very light, white around his eyes, and his nose is a brown grey color. Not the best of pictures, but concidering even I didn't know what he really looked like until last night.


Renamed this topic to include both my hedgehogs, as since I'm usually bored about this time of night on Sunday, planned on posting updates on their progress and such here and there, so I figured I'd dump Loki's story into here.


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## Puffers315

*Re: Hester Sue & Loki of the North*

Hester Sue I've grown slightly concerned about. She has that whole "might have inbred babies cause she was housed with her brother" situation over her head, and maybe I'm just crazy but it seemed like she's shifted personality wise. Besides being friendlier as said last week, though she is still the heavy clicking, popping ball of joy when I take her out of the cage, there's just been a few other things. Nesting is one, she's at least several times formed a nest in the fleece, rather than just a nice sleep cave. Noticed this her last cage change, and she seems to be doing it now with the cage liner itself. She's abandoned sleeping under the extra liner in the corner, and back to sleeping on the plastic under her actual liner. Built her a quick nesting box attempt, shoe box with an opening at one end, filled and lined with fleece. I think she's in it right now, but she won't be to bed until 5am. When I pull the liner back to get her out or after she's awake and eating, been really careful just in case...

Loki is slowly coming along, more active than I had realized. I unfortunately had a four day weekend (doesn't help money wise), so I've been around a lot, up at later hours. He gets up around 10pm, eats and uses the bathroom, have taken note his bathroom use is always inside the igloo (has no fleece in it cause he doesn't like it), so he's obviously a shy boy who wants a roof over his head. He no longer sleeps in his hedgie sack and is now totally living in the vinyl tube that went to his loft. Removed it mainly because he was sleeping in the tube, giving me zero access to him, nor did he like the loft. Kibble count good, I need to get him on the scales again, forgot to do it tonight when he was out. He is up at random points in the night, but he seems to like the dawn, which sucks because the house lights come up at 6am, and he's always awake. I look in on him and you can see that frozen expression on his face, like "oh crap". Need to get him that good wheel, that comfort wheel is just too narrow.

PS - If this is annoying, I can just start a journal site for them, probably should anyways but I got enough domains going.


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## PJM

*Re: Hester Sue & Loki of the North*

I don't think it's annoying at all! I read all the newposts every day & stuff like this is good to know. It helps me to see if my hedgie is acting odd and also gives me ideas of things I should be noticing. I don't think there is such a thing as too much info.


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## shetland

*Re: Hester Sue & Loki of the North*

I never tire of the stories and the pictures. Your stories are of real life and progress of your hedgies; this could never be boring.


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## Sela

*Re: Hester Sue & Loki of the North*

Agreed, please don't stop posting these stories, Puffers.

I think Hester's behaviour signals that she did, indeed, catch the preggers from her brother. << That's definitely not good, I hope the babies will be born okay, if she's going to have some.

Either way, good luck, and keep us posted.


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## Puffers315

*Re: Hester Sue & Loki of the North*

Thanks, just wanted to make sure I wasn't that annoying new hedgehog keeper who just won't shut up, hehe. Plus I figured if anything, might help others out, because I can see where people would get turned off really quick with a hedgehog. God the youtube comments, Oh so cute, where do you get one, and so forth. Then they get their hedgehog and don't understand why its scared, mean, balling up, clicking and popping at you, then the poor fellow ends up in the classifieds cause he wasn't a hamster. Hester is a prime example, we're one month into it, and she's come a long ways, but she's still in general a mean spikey ball, but that was lack of handling up until I got her.

Loki on the other hand, it was his night to be out with me and he is coming along quickly now. Still nervous but he actually laid and chilled on me for a few, then back to exploring me. He's also coming out of his tube without so much darkness, still got the towel covering his cage, but there's a 4 inch gap in the bottom so I can see him eat and such. I'm hoping to get him a piece of 5 inch PVC and attempt to get him from sleeping in the vinyl tube, without just taking it away.

Hester on the other hand...well. She took to the shoe box, no messed up liner with a giant lump in the center, but she just did something that's got me spooked. After I put Loki in his pen, I looked over and saw her looking out at me from her loft tube. After I went downstairs and washed my hands and changed my shirt, I opened the cage to see how she was reacting to me. Still giving me the visor when a hand gets near her, but she actually allowed me to touch her head without her freaking out, enough that I ran my finger gentle back and forth on her nose, it was enough to make me worry maybe the AC was sending her into a hibernation attempt, though its 78 (no major drafts near the cage, some air current but just general movement of the air itself).

But after I left her, she ran on the wheel for maybe 10 seconds, got off, was half hanging out of her litter box, looking like she might be going to the bathroom, slide off the side to the entrance of her loft tube (her favorite spot to go to the bathroom), could see the tail sticking out. But then she made a mad dash to the shoe box and got in it. This is unusual for her, as she should be wheeling right now. So I'm pondering, if she's gone into labor. She's never gone to the bathroom where she sleeps, and I don't think she's constipated though it seems like the amount of poop has slacked off, but it also might be dropping into the litter box under the wheel, looks like there are few in there.

So my question is right now, do baby hedgehogs squeak when they are first born, or does that occur later. And should I wait to remove the wheel until I know she's had some, or say remove it during the day just to be sure.


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## Sunshiner

*Re: Hester Sue & Loki of the North*

Oooo. That does not sound good. How is she doing right now? I don't know if they make noise right away or not, but I think you should check every 1/2 hour. Just a careful, quick lift of the fleece to see if anything is there. Hope they are born OK.


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## nikki

*Re: Hester Sue & Loki of the North*

If she's pregnant and close to term she shouldnt' have a wheel in her cage at all. Wheels need to be removed before the babies are born. Sometimes you'll hear squeaking but other times you wont. If the mother is taking good care of the babies and with them all the time they'll rarely squeak and they usually squeak when hungry, and when looking for mom. Just leave her alone and don't peek in her nest. If she's had them and she's staying in the nest she's taking care of them. Also they don't each much for a day or so after the babies are born so that can be a sign as well. Good luck with her.


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## Sela

*Re: Hester Sue & Loki of the North*

Oh boy. Sounds like Hester Sue has some inbred babies. << Definitely take the wheel away, and DO NOT DISTURB HER, as Nikki said. Best of luck, Puffers, let us know how it's all going. (But don't bug Hester to get us an update or I shall smack you.)


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## Puffers315

*Re: Hester Sue & Loki of the North*

Sorry for a lack of an update with Hester and her preggers situation, its the busy season in the ice industry, working the whole weekend and long days, etc. Yeah it sucks, I don't get to enjoy the 4th of July or much of summer working in the 'ice' industry, but work is work.

Thanks for the info guys, haven't updated but there are no babies, yet. I caculated last night that she's been here for 42 days, so we're on the downhill side of the watch. Her attitude has done a 180, from seeming very friendly right back to insane, spikey huffy clicking popping self when I get near the cage. I still get the vibe that she's going to be one of those ones that will never get too friendly, I blame the zero handling aspect of her life until she got here. She was fine for awhile on me during bonding time, I mean still popping clicking and hissing at me, but now she's going full ball, and when she comes out, she's instantly looking for somewhere to run, not really hide, just more getting away from me. I know I read that attitude changes could be signs of being preggers, but its hard to tell when she was already a grumpy hog when handled. No other signs really either, her arse is the same size, huge, but even 42 days ago I still remember looking at it poking out of the vinyl tube and thinking "she's got a fat arse". But there's no signs that its growing. I've also kept my eyes out for pronounced nipples, still nothing. Besides that, I guess its just the waiting game until day 55. But yeah I know its only been a little more than a month and I can't judge attitudes, but I'm a person who can sense vibes, and her vibe is pure EVIL, joking, but I know her mother was described to be about the same, they were suprised when she had a litter and then suprised by the fact she didn't eat them, due to her attitude. On a side note she's topping in at the moment between 450 and 460 grams, she was just under 300 when I got her.

And then of course Loki, he's been coming along nicely. Still not that cuddling thing his previous owner had described, but I think even he is going to take some time, he seems to be a very shy boy, when he comes out of his cage, he moves like lightning. Skiddish to a degree with me but lightens up, especially with the meal worms he supposely didn't like. Last night I had him on my bed and he was running around, letting me pick him up without protesting too much. He was also moved last night to his new home, which he seems to have settled into with no problem, he was out both nights running his wheel time and whatever he does for fun in there, his vinyl tube that he calls 'home' is in the front of the cage, so I really don't see him, I'll just see the top of his pop tent (came with him) move and roll around, or the edge of his sleep sack that he use to like move about. He seems to have dropped a little weight, though it might just be variations between weight in before he poops and after, I think it was said a hedgehog can drop anywhere from 10 to 30 grams just in a bathroom break. I've noticed he kind of poops every other day. One day you'll get small poops, though I think its off his wheel and looking small cause he's smashed it, and then the next day I'll find a regular giant size one inside his igloo turned "outhouse".

Funny neither hog wants anything to do with that outhouse, Vera loved it. I might try washing it again, I had washed it in boiling bleach water after Vera died, to make sure if there wasn't anything disease wise on it from Vera, so it might have absorbed the smell. I smelled it along with other people before I used it, and nothing was detected, but god knows with their sense of smell. Hester didn't use it and was sleeping under the liner, and Loki didn't use it when I offered to him originally, he kept sleeping in his bag. Then he got the vinyl tube and decided to always sleep in that now. Currently working on a 5 inch pvc tube that I'm going to line the inside with fleece, I'm not a fan of him sleeping in the vinyl just do to moisture and well, he enjoys his "boy time" in there. I'll hear movement in the tube but not see him, which usually if he's moving about, he'll at least peak out. I've sat and watched a few times, not to sound like a perv, heh. All I see is quills, I've only concluded its been boy time because the first time I watched, there was slight movement for awhile followed by him splatting out big time, laid for a few minutes and then came out all normal like. The second time I didn't understand how he was laying in there, his quills were standing straight up and you looked in either end of the tube and I couldn't make out anything, usually you can see the back of his ears or some of his face furr. It finally made sense when he was done, he had balled up to do the deed, when done he rolled out of it, looked at me, and then came out.

Last, I've noted both seem to be 'dawn' oriented in general activity. I tend to catch both when I wake up wheeling. Loki will be up until the point the lights in the cage click on, and he usually dive bombs into his pop tent and hides, I kind of feel sorry for him. I need to get a better timer, all I got was that cheap one from walmart, so cheap that sometimes it won't click on or off, so it needs to come on about the same time I get up in the morning.

One goal I got before the snow falls this winter is I'd like to invest in another Ferret Nation cage and link them up together. Neither have had any playpen time, and I think Loki is going to be the only one who will enjoy it. Hester goes insane, tries to climb out of the corners or just hides. Loki, just hides. I'll wait and see if this changes, but since they seem to be up more in the late late hours, i'd like to get them as much room as possible. The idea is I'd cut an opening in the bars for a tube. I've pondered just using sterlite bins somehow attached to the side, but in the end if I'm going to chop up the bars off this cage, I'd rather have a double set. Plus if need be, gives me space for at least two more hedgehogs, though I don't want that many, but you never know what might show up in this area that needs a really good home. I keep my eyes open, but its been pretty quiet hog wise.

And that be your Hester & Loki update.


----------



## Puffers315

*Re: Hester Sue & Loki of the North*

Its funny, usually you define what the pets do, but then you find its the pets who define what you do. Over the 4th of July week, I was working late and not getting home until later than usual, and not into my room with the hogs until 9 or so. This is when I noticed that everytime I came in late, both of them would be up and wheeling, which was kind of out of character for them. Thus I've adjusted things now, 9pm comes around and I turn off my desk lamp, even made a color setting on the tv to dim it down, and now both come out between 9 and 9:30, do their wheeling and eat. Bonding time has been kind of random, but I've made sure both get attention.

There's been many firsts, mainly with Hester. She got her first bath and nail clipping here in the past week, which went well for the most part. Clipped one nail just a touch too short, a single drop of blood was all I saw, but then again I shouldn't have done both a first bath and nail clipping in one roll. The bath was actually the reason for the nail clipping, her back nails were getting long and I knew there was no way in **** I was going to clip them without her balling up. Then a few nights later, probably because of the nail clipping, she had her first poopy boot, her feet had been very clean before that. Personality wise she's still the same, calmer but still a grumpy popping ball at times, still think she'll remain that way, just cause her mother was described to be the same. I find it cute, so all is well. We're also past the 55 day mark by a week or more, so no inbred babies. I'll admit a tiny chunk of me wished she did have babies, just because they are so cute and I think it would be fun to raise at least one litter, but I'll save that for when I have several years experience with hedgehogs, and not with these guys as I don't know either of their lineage, nor do I have the room. But I'm just glad she didn't have any freak babies.

Loki has warmed up a lot, still my little shy guy, but he's stopped balling up when I pick him up and such. He's not the cuddler his previous owner described, but I think that's because his previous owner had been waking him up late afternoon and such, I wait until he wakes up by himself, and then bond with him, and he's definitely an explorer. He's learned to use the CS Wheel, did what I was told and just removed the comfort wheel, took him a few nights to figure out it was a wheel. He also litter trained himself, before I got the CS Wheel I had placed a dish in there with yesterday's news, just to let him get use to it and make sure he wasn't going to try and eat it, since at some point I will use the litter pan that comes with the wheel. Without even trying with him, he's taken to using it for the bathroom, and actually he seems to be one of those clean guys. I'll watch him on the wheel, he'll wheel, then run over to the litter box, then back to the wheel. I've seen nothing bathroom wise on the wheel itself. The one trouble I'm having with him is he suddenly has taken up sleeping under the liner. He had been sleeping inside the vinyl tube for the first month, then just one day I found him under the liner, ironically under the liner and somehow under the igloo he had been using for a bathroom. Made him a shoebox house which he used up until last night. He got his first bath here, and now he's back to under the liner. Was going to pin down the edges tonight before he got back under it, but well, he got back under, and I said screw it for tonight. I'm going to make him a bigger shoe box house, maybe he'd like some more room.

And so, life with hedgehogs move on.


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## Puffers315

*Re: Hester Sue & Loki of the North*

I still find it amazing when you think your guy is done settling in and trusting everything, and you think you have him figured out, they do something out of the ordinary. The last post I just did a few days ago talked about how Loki required very little light, enough that I made a setting on the tv and avoid bright websites. Yet I'm sitting here, desk lamp on, tv going and louder since I do turn it down a few knotches during their active time, and Loki is out doing his usual "morning" routine. A little more skiddish than usual, but eating, drinking and of course a cat sticks her face near the cage and he's staring at me from under his wheel. Just still amazes me when they do stuff like this, and always wonder will it last or just a fluke.

Edit - And then of course one of the cats comes does their stretchy claw your furniture up stretch on my chair and he just fled back into...well under the liner cause he's still being bad, but I'm letting him be. :roll:


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## Puffers315

*Re: Hester Sue & Loki of the North*

Its weird how these little guys can make you out to be a liar after awhile. I once wrote in one of the threads about someone's hedgehog who left kibble crumbs behind that Hester Sue was like a demolish team when eating, the area looked like someone blew up a brick building there was so much kibble crumbs left behind. Then suddenly in the past week that changed, there is very little crumbs being left behind, and she is still eating her usual 50 to 70 pieces a night. This also goes with her using the bathroom, she had been using the area just right of the wheel (leads to the tunnel upstairs) but suddenly, nothing, all in the litter box under the wheel or in the wheel itself.

Loki on the other hand has stopped using his litter box, at least tonight, but I think he's mad at me for messing with him. For the past week he had abandoned his shoe box house for sleeping under the liner, again. I let him be for the week since he's been using the litter box and well, figured let him do his thing, but of course Sundays are 'major cleaning day' so I had to wake him up and remove him from his liner den. He wasn't happy. On top of that I built him a new shoe box house, I was thinking the old one maybe was too small for his liking (6 quarts) so he's been upgraded with a 12 quart container. I also think he has a thing for sleeping on hard surfaces. When I first got him, he stayed in his hedgie bag for a week, and then proceeded to sleep in a vinyl tube I put in his cage. This lasted until he discovered the world under the liner, which is when I built his first shoe box house. Slept there for a good three weeks, then returned to the liner. So we're still experimenting.... and I take that back, sitting here writing I kept hearing a noise, finally got up and looked and well, someone found a way back into the liner.

I've also come to realize that he is the type who wants it almost pitch black out. Since I've had him, I've tried various lights and such, like I posted in the previous entries. But for the last couple of nights I've tried total darkness, using black-out curtains to cover his part of the cage (bottom half). So far I see a vast improvement in his activity levels, namely that he's wheeling.

So life continues in the house of the Northern Hedgehogs (well southern to the canadian members). Updates here will probably dry up since it'll get to the point where nothing new will happen, that and I'll probably move it over to a site I'm working on (listed in my signature). The general idea behind HedgieCare.com will be providing the basic care information for hedgehogs, HHC has a good amount but at last from the website point of view, seemed kind of hard to find all the information easily. There was stuff I was unaware of without reading the forum boards, such as the light cycle, the requirement for heating and so forth. I plan to have members here help out with information since I'm still a newbie, so the information is correct, and of course highly promote the HHC forums (large banner across the bottom).

Life rolls on.


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## Puffers315

*Re: Hester Sue & Loki of the North*

So this morning I actually awoke to a poopy wheel in Loki's cage. It actually makes me feel bad that I kept him inactive by not blocking out all the light, but lesson learned, he's a total darkness hedgehog. Tommorrow I'll be installing two cheap security cameras so I can snoop on them while in the darkness.


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## Hedgieonboard

*Re: Hester Sue & Loki of the North*

Good luck on the website, I'll definitely come check it out when you get it up and running


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## tie-dye hedgie

*Re: Hester Sue & Loki of the North*



Hedgieonboard said:


> Good luck on the website, I'll definitely come check it out when you get it up and running


Me too! 

If you can, post up some of the videos you get of him!


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## Puffers315

*Re: Hester Sue & Loki of the North*

I'll try and get some video, still haven't gotten to getting the cameras, probably going to go out tommorrow and do some shopping, so I'll grab them. Not sure how to record them, don't got a dvr or dvd-r, they're being hooked up to my flat screen cause its got multiple a/v jacks. Might in the fall see if I can hook them into my computer, then I could record them, would be interesting to youtube it so people can see how they are when not playing with their humans.

I still feel bad, activity levels have at least doubled for both of them since I've started the mostly blacked out lighting for them. Loki is definitely tripled, but I've notice Hester is out running longer now. This is because I've noticed I'm cleaning the wheels daily now, before it was every few days for Hester, as it was staying without a clean reason, I'd spot clean it to a degree when she was asleep and the larger stuff comes off easy enough when dried, but now its nightly. Then throw Loki's wheel which is now dirty from his fun runs. Appetites are also up as I've noticed more kibble being eaten.

And as for HedgieCare.Com, you guys are going to get the text preview at some point, as I want to make sure that my information is correct, what is agree'd upon here at HHC for care, and so forth. Cause I'm not an expert, ****, I haven't even had my guys for half a year, I just know what I know from reading and not first hand experience.

I'm just a guy who fell in love with the creatures, and would like to help out the hedgehog communities and of course, the hedgehogs, else we're left with scary people like that girl with the "Hedgehog Care Video" that despite being told certain things she does care wise is dangerous or deadly, her way has worked for her and she doesn't want to change it, yet has a video out there promoting how to take care of them.

And I know when I started my research, what comes up for care tends to be from breeder sites or research sites, or whatever. Hedgehog Central has a good format and I'm not sure who exactly (if anyone) on the forums runs it, but design wise I think the general care information gets blended in with the other options, good information such as colors, breeding, clubs, links, etc. I'm just flapping my lips as a web page maker though, I think a dedicate site just to the general safe and proper care helps out, the more correct info, the less hedgie harm being done in the world. And as said, big giant HHC banner across the bottom.

And not to plug business around here, if anyone ever wanted to have a domain name and web site, I operate my own services and rent out space. There's other stuff, I also partly own an internet radio station, someone could probably so do a hedgehog show on it, heh.

Anyways, goodnight Hedgehog land.


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## Puffers315

*Re: Hester Sue & Loki of the North*

Had to share this. Last night I attempted to treat my guys with a hard boiled egg, we had a mac salad in the making and I reserved an egg for them. Loki didn't care for it, his previous owner did say he was a picky eater, but then again said he didn't like meal worms and he basically flings himself on them. So we try the egg.

Loki is a little too freaked out, the desk lamp was on, he was up eating so of course he starts the dash for darkness or his house. He does come over and tries a little, then dashes into his house.

Hester Sue had the best reaction. She is -always- on her wheel when she is up, so anytime we try treats, I got to get her to stop, smell and possibly taste. Done this with wet cat food, which of course caused a major anointing session with it, didn't eat it. But I offer the egg (mashed up on a plate) and she literally went "HRMPH" with a snort and spun around on the wheel and began running at a high rate of speed.

In the end, left both plates in their cage over night, neither ate it. Still no camera, the one I wanted was gone from the radio shack and apparently ain't being restocked. Did figure out how I can record it though, tripod + cell phone camera = recorded video. Sometime in the next month or so I'll get that setup, I really want to see what Loki is up to when he's awake. He keeps climbing on top of his house, I put his tent and one of his old stainless steel dishes up there just so they're out of the way, every morning they are on the other side of the cage.


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## Puffers315

*Re: Hester Sue & Loki of the North*

Figured its about time for an update to the Hester & Loki Journal..

Got the security camera to work, apparently you need to let it 'warm up' for a little before the actual night vision clicks on, glad I didn't take it back or go with my second plan, which was to get a another lamp fixture, a red bulb and a dimmer switch. So now I got Hedgehog Vision to see inside the seedy world of Hester & Loki, well Loki mainly. I installed it first in Hester's cage but I already knew her nightly activity, wheel, laps around the cage, constant checking of her house and dishes (sometimes eating, sometimes not). The camera didn't exactly work out in her cage because she has the loft area, was hard to get a good view. Loki's cage on the other hand has no loft area, so I have a full view of the cage floor. He pretty much does the same thing and as we were discussing in another thread, wheels, jumps off, does a lap, checks his food, checks his house, maybe grabs some food and water, wheels some more. He does a few more things like push his little pop tent around or a jingle ball, squeeze himself under and behind the wheel and even climbs up on top of his house.

I've become a firm believer that hedgehog activity is dictated by weather, I noticed this during the summer when we had the multiple heat waves, there'd be an increase in activity a few days before the heat would hit, and then of course a dramatic drop when the day before. No splatting or signs of being too hot, just not being as active. Even right now today was a very unusually warm day for us up here in New York, and Loki at least compared to the rest of this week cage wise has been hyper active tonight, per say he usually spends about an hour out during the early evening before taking a nap and then getting up after I've gone to bed, he's been out for at least three. Though Hester seems to have put about the same amount of time in her wheeling as she always does.

A little concerned about Hester's size, she's a big big girl, probably pushing 600 grams, neglected to scale her for awhile. She's still got a good shape, no extra skin, balls up tightly, just seems like she has that shoulder hump, but then again I notice this when she's on the wheel, so it might be her size and her position on the wheel. I've also caught her sleeping on her side, which I know isn't a sign, though there was that thread of something thinking their hog was getting fat and was concerned about them suddenly sleeping on their side. Can't confirm if she had been doing this before, not concerned until she starts not balling up tightly or has extra skin. One new habit she has developed is sleeping in the corner of her cage during the night at the base of her loft tube.

Loki of course we had our activity concerns last week, only to figure out the curtain across the cage was allowing in light. Still pondering the 'total darkness' theory and my first hog Vera who never seemed overly active, and if she would have been if she had total darkness. Her previous family kept her in the living room, so I'd assume it was dark, though she had nothing in her cage, a house that took up 90% of her cage floor and that lonely cardboard tube she loved to push around and go through.

And last and while I'm thinking of Vera, I now have a clip video up on Youtube of the hogs, in the end though it features Vera the most. Hester appears in the b/w security video and one clip of a baby Hester running on her wheel for the first time. There is one of Loki, also the b/w security video but this was during the activity problem, you'll see he jumps on the wheel and jumps off.






Enjoy.


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## susanaproenca

*Re: Hester Sue & Loki of the North*

Very nice video!

Is it Vera with the cats? I love her attitude towards them... :lol:


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## shetland

*Re: Hester Sue & Loki of the North*

What a wonderful video! Thank you!!


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## Puffers315

*Re: Hester Sue & Loki of the North*

Yeah, most of the clips are of Vera, she loved to explore and the second a cat got into her pen, she would sniff them out and bite them. Her and the grey cat got along well, sadly though the Grey one (Baby Girl) passed away this summer at only age 1.5, she's full grown in the video but was always half her size, she got sick and the vet thought she had a uterus infection, they went to spay her and found cancer on all her organs. So now they play together on the rainbow bridge.


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## PJM

*Re: Hester Sue & Loki of the North*

I loved the video! Vera was such a hoot! After hearing so much about her, I'm glad you shared that special video with us. I just loved how she scooted around under the box, dragging that fleece behind her. All it takes is one special hedgie like that to make you fall in love with the species.
Thanks for sharing it with us.


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## Puffers315

Thanks for the comments on the videos, there was one video for some reason would not work which featured Vera Lee and her box, she loved that thing, but it was her tooling around the playpen with it on her back, but the video prevented me from compiling the entire thing, don't know why, just sucks I had to cut it out.

So we've had a break through with Loki and he just spent a good two hours out in the playpen for the first time. He's been displaying some different behaviors this past week, namely appearing out of his house around 9pm when I put his mealies in. I'm guessing he can smell them but he use to never come out, and then one night I had put them in and sat down and heard a strange eating noise and was actually shocked to look over and see him out with the lights on. This has become a nightly thing, mealies go in, and within a half an hour he comes out and eats them. But then tonight he didn't go back in his house, he did indeed hide in the corner behind his house but was out, so I decided to fetch him and get some much needed bonding time in with him. He did his usual thing on me, hide in my shirt, come out, get into my armpit, proceed to annoit, accidently nip my flesh. Then I decided to put him down on the floor.

Still a shy guy, he stuck to the shadows for the most part, lights or no lights though he kept testing things out by running out into the middle of the floor, I think I'm a major put off for him, cause I left the room for about 10 minutes and came back and he was checking out the empty cat food dish. But I let him roam about for a good two hours, he proceeded to climb all over the stuff in the bottom of the cage which made me cringe, just because there's like the ramps to the ferret nation and other things, but he stayed safe. Gave me a chance to see what I need to do to improve the area, I had with Vera used the pen as a 4 x4 square, this time I used the walls to block off a section of my room.

The only concern is he found the cat's milk which I neglected to pick up and did take a few sips from it, not a whole lot but still with them being lactose intolerant, guess I'll just keep an eye on his poop.

Hester is the same, currently concerned about her nails, last time I attempted to trim them via the sink method, it turned into some horrid rodeo and didn't get much done, except her overheated and really ticked off. Pondering other methods, was thinking about scruffing but attempted to at least get my hands into position a few nights ago, didn't work out well, she is not a calm girl when out, quills up, even when covered up. Also becoming a huge girl, tipping the scales at 612. Might end up having the vet trim them, I'd like to get her checked out for the fall since its been 6 months plus she seems to be dropping quills, though I've looked and I don't see any baldness going on, she just hit 36 weeks and I can't remember if they're done quilling.

So with some more hedgie proofing of their room section, we'll see how Loki the sky boy does.

PS - Renamed this topic since its more or less a journal.


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## Puffers315

Finally got Hester's nails trimmed somewhat, at least to the point they're not tapping on the wheel as she ran, and it wasn't fun. Tried her in the bathtub this time around which she was a touch more calm, I think due to the space. Its probably not a good thing but the only time I manage to get at her feet was if I turned the faucet on, she really doesn't like the noise of the water, but I just happen to turn in on cause the water was cooling down (and of course guarding her from getting close to it) and I saw an opening due to the distraction. Without it, anytime I would attempt to grab a foot, she'd actually sit and tuck her feet in on me. Thankfully it was mainly the outter toenails that were too long, the others are of good length but short enough, and figured as said here at the forums, even if its one toe at a time.

Second good news is we had our guest room open up and is now their room. In a way they had been disturbing me at night, and equally I was disturbing them. I had been getting kind of tired of sitting with the lights off, and then of course if I was moving about the room, they would either attempt to hide (namely Loki) and Hester would just go sit in the corner. The guest room wasn't really used, we have no guests basically. An aunt from downstate who comes and visits often, and my brother who visits a few times a year from Phillie. Well, my brother sleeps on the couch when he's up here anyways (falls asleep on it), and my aunt bought a house up here, thus leaving the room to be more or less storage. 

So now its Hester & Loki's room, and their activity levels have doubled, well at least Hester. She spent a good 6+ hours last night running and cage romping, to the point her wheel was the dirtiest I have ever seen it. Loki was out for a good amount of time too, though tonight he seems to have retired to his house as usual. Use to be Hester would wheel for a couple of hours and then nap in the corner of the cage, Loki would be out for an hour and I'd never seen him again, though he'd come out after I went to bed.

Side bonus is the fact that I don't have to cover the cage up like I had been, wasn't a fan due lack of air flow, only one side is now covered, the one that faces the door, just to block out any possible light coming from the rest of the house. It also allows me to use the security camera I bought to see the entire cage, and not just Loki's section, so I can sit here and watch both doing their nightly thing. Third is solves the problem of them being in my room, which has two windows that fact west against the wind, and are really old and crappy, thus making this room really cold in the winter without massive sealing and heating. The small room will be easy to heat, and thanks to PJM who has donated Zoey's old CHE setup which will cut down on having to use a space heater and aid in the fact there's no heat in the 2nd floor of the house.

And last in traditional feline habit, the second you change something in the house, they suddenly become interested in it. I've had these guys since at least May and they've paid little to no attention to them, but the second they relocate to a different room, suddenly the cats are interested in them. Nothing bad, just lots of staring and looking, probably more the fact they can see them now, versus having the cage covered. Neither hog really cares either, there was one watching Loki eat, literally 4 inches away on the outside of the cage, and he just ate and stared back.


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## Puffers315

Been a fun month or so. Hedgehogs got evicted from their new room so we could store random crap in there, and cause they 'smelled'. My basic situation is I'm 29 and live with my parents, by choice and mainly to save money. We have land my family has lived on for 80 years, a fair amount of space, and I've always wanted to build a house on it, so there was no point in spending money on renting a place. They've also got some joint issues, Doctors just told my mother she needs to have a knee replaced, and my father has major hip problem (basically he's worn the end of his leg bone down to nothing from 38 years of factory work), so I pay a minor rent and pay the rest in manual labor, heh. As said before, our guest room became available and I asked to put the hogs in it, get a somewhat delayed yes.

Then one night at random I was basically told to rehome them and that they stinked even if I didn't think they did. Don't get my Mother wrong, she's typically not that type of person, she's the one with the full on compassion for animals that got passed down to me, but she knew I had talked about rehoming them (due to several issues) before. But basically she told me to rehome them, and I just turned around that night and put them back in my room. Either way, they're not going anywhere, except in my room, which is totally fine by me. When I get my place built, it'll have an actual hedgehog room planned into it. I would like to be a rescue someday, though I don't think there's a high hedgehog population in my region, except for Montreal but that's of course getting them out of Canada (I'm in NY State), which isn't overly hard according to Nancy, but I just don't have the proper resources. Closest good hospital is 2 hours west, I have a general vet near me but if something serious crops up, its gotta go to the animal hospital.

But all in all been good.

There was of course last Friday Night and the great starvation of Hester, when I forgot to leave her 'feeding tube' down to her loft. She only got to eat 2 grams of kibble when said and done. I still find it somewhat cute but sad that she actually squeaked in sadness at 3am about not having her food (let alone water for a wheeler), but it alerted me to a problem, smart girl. Not to say its good for her, but I think she's going to get overweight, though she has planed off at 620 grams, she's huge. But so far no extra skin, though she has a hump in her shoulders when wheeling. But she wheels for a good 4 to 5 hours, usually 1 to 2 in the early evening, then she now chills out at the bottom of her tube staring into the corner or in her house, then from 3 to 6 its go time. Loki does 30 to an hour early evening and then 3 to 4 hours, and even though its less he's still my true avid wheeler. Hester somewhat does a jog on her wheel, Loki reminds me of a race horse and flies.

Loki is the same, a couple of 'habits' I've picked up on in the past month. One is when I go to get him out after he's been up, he bites and pulls the fleece in his house when I disturb him, I can't tell if he's playing or angry, though once he lets go he just looks at me like nothing has happened. I personally think its a territorial thing, but thinking about it I think it might be a thing he does before he sleeps. There's always been one piece of fleece in his house that looks pilled up, and even when he was sleeping under the liner, there was one that looked the same, so I ponder if he chews and pulls on fleece before he goes to sleep. The other is just an odd one. He gets too happy when eating mealies, he eats them and he literally just climaxes as if he was having boy time, contorts the body and everything, though I've never checked for actual evidence. Its just odd.

Besides that, life marches on.


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## Puffers315

Happy Birthday Hester (and me)!

Since Hester was purchased from a crazy exotic animal lady from EbayClassifieds, I don't know her exact birthday, best I can figure it was the second part of January, caculating from what I was told her "weeks of age" was originally. So I decided I'd just mark her Birthday along with mine on February 1st (easy to remember). So Happy Birthday Hester, the brick house hedgehoge with a biker's attitude! I'll give her a big pile of chicken tonight since she doesn't get any treats anymore (she's getting fat, I've noticed she no longer balls up tightly at 565 grams, so its diet time).

All has been quiet in the house of the northern hedgehogs (southern for you guys in Canada), we've survived our coldest temperatures of the year, and actually of the past decade with an ambient temperature of -28'F two Mondays ago (Lowest in the region I think was -34'F). It had been a major concern keeping these guys warm, but my prevention measures have kept everything in a nice range (sealed windows, run space heater 24/7 since someone is always in the house, and CHE system from PJM and Zoey). Somehow though Hester's lowest reading on her digi said 56'F somewhere or somehow, but its got to be a computer error. There's always someone in the house, and its never gotten that cold to my knowledge. Loki is in the bottom cage and his didn't even have a low reading like that (he's got the working CHE). And I've never seen another reading like that.

Since I've lost my mealworm supply, Loki is now in love with boiled chicken. He gets a good pinch everynight, its enough to make him come out into the full light just to get it and run. Hester gets nothing, but she was never a fan of treats, and the fact she's getting too chubby to fully ball up. She'll get her birthday treat tonight. Loki also loves a hard boiled egg. What Hester thinks of it, I cannot describe. She looooves her food, enough that she chomps the kibble and only eats what remains in her mouth (crumb factory). I offered them both the egg, Loki came out and ate his up just like his chicken. Hester, actually didn't eat that night. 3 grams (versus her typical 9 to 12 grams). When I pulled the dish out and looked, I took note that the only kibble eaten was what wasn't touching or close to the egg. Made me worried, checked her and watched her food/activity levels that night. Normal, ate normal, and has eaten normal. So she hates it more than me, enough to not even eat because it was there in her dish.

She also gave me my first "oh my god something is wrong" heart attack to night, I've been missing this from my hedgehog experience. Quiet in my room, lights off for them, out of no where three large squeaks. Both are typically as quiet as a graveyard when sleeping, every now and then Hester scratches at the floor. So it took me a moment to realize who it was, because when you have 8 cats in 1000 square feet, its not unusual for them to get angry, hiss and scream at each other (four females fighting to be the dominate one). After a moment I realized it was one of them. Got up, threw the blackout curtain off the cage and of course checked Hester first. Asleep, well, sleeping, waking with a startle and then hissing to **** and back about being disturbed. Checked Loki, he wakes up and does his "oh my god what is that" look. I'm guessing it was Hester, and a nightmare (she's out now running as I write). The only other time I heard it was when I forgot to put her food loft ramp down so she had no food or water, the same sound that night but 10 times louder.

So life continues in this horrid winter, I can't wait for spring, I'll actually take someone out when its warm enough to check out the lawn this year.


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## Puffers315

Happy Birthday Hester (and me)!

Since Hester was purchased from a crazy exotic animal lady from EbayClassifieds, I don't know her exact birthday, best I can figure it was the second part of January, caculating from what I was told her "weeks of age" was originally. So I decided I'd just mark her Birthday along with mine on February 1st (easy to remember). So Happy Birthday Hester, the brick house hedgehoge with a biker's attitude! I'll give her a big pile of chicken tonight since she doesn't get any treats anymore (she's getting fat, I've noticed she no longer balls up tightly at 565 grams, so its diet time).

All has been quiet in the house of the northern hedgehogs (southern for you guys in Canada), we've survived our coldest temperatures of the year, and actually of the past decade with an ambient temperature of -28'F two Mondays ago (Lowest in the region I think was -34'F). It had been a major concern keeping these guys warm, but my prevention measures have kept everything in a nice range (sealed windows, run space heater 24/7 since someone is always in the house, and CHE system from PJM and Zoey). Somehow though Hester's lowest reading on her digi said 56'F somewhere or somehow, but its got to be a computer error. There's always someone in the house, and its never gotten that cold to my knowledge. Loki is in the bottom cage and his didn't even have a low reading like that (he's got the working CHE). And I've never seen another reading like that.

Since I've lost my mealworm supply, Loki is now in love with boiled chicken. He gets a good pinch everynight, its enough to make him come out into the full light just to get it and run. Hester gets nothing, but she was never a fan of treats, and the fact she's getting too chubby to fully ball up. She'll get her birthday treat tonight. Loki also loves a hard boiled egg. What Hester thinks of it, I cannot describe. She looooves her food, enough that she chomps the kibble and only eats what remains in her mouth (crumb factory). I offered them both the egg, Loki came out and ate his up just like his chicken. Hester, actually didn't eat that night. 3 grams (versus her typical 9 to 12 grams). When I pulled the dish out and looked, I took note that the only kibble eaten was what wasn't touching or close to the egg. Made me worried, checked her and watched her food/activity levels that night. Normal, ate normal, and has eaten normal. So she hates it more than me, enough to not even eat because it was there in her dish.

She also gave me my first "oh my god something is wrong" heart attack to night, I've been missing this from my hedgehog experience. Quiet in my room, lights off for them, out of no where three large squeaks. Both are typically as quiet as a graveyard when sleeping, every now and then Hester scratches at the floor. So it took me a moment to realize who it was, because when you have 8 cats in 1000 square feet, its not unusual for them to get angry, hiss and scream at each other (four females fighting to be the dominate one). After a moment I realized it was one of them. Got up, threw the blackout curtain off the cage and of course checked Hester first. Asleep, well, sleeping, waking with a startle and then hissing to **** and back about being disturbed. Checked Loki, he wakes up and does his "oh my god what is that" look. I'm guessing it was Hester, and a nightmare (she's out now running as I write). The only other time I heard it was when I forgot to put her food loft ramp down so she had no food or water, the same sound that night but 10 times louder.

So life continues in this horrid winter, I can't wait for spring, I'll actually take someone out when its warm enough to check out the lawn this year.


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## susanaproenca

Happy birthday to the two of you!  . I really enjoy Hester's and Loki's stories and was excited this morning when I saw the post. Thanks for sharing!


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## schmelderz

Happy birthday Puffers and Hester!  Thanks for keeping us posted on Hester and Loki. I look forward to updates


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## PJM

Hey Puffers! Good to hear from you! I always enjoy hearing about the adventures of Hester Sue & Loki.


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## MissC

Happy Birthday!!! To both of you!  

Thank you so much for posting, I've been reading the entire tale...coffee in head...getting up only to turn up the frickin' heat...(-30 Canadian here)...bbbbbrrrrrrr....

I love Hester & Loki stories and always make a point of catching your posts!


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## ThePliny

Happy birthday Puffer and Ms. Hester! Love readings the adventures of Hester and Loki. 


Miss C - sounds like you are doing exactly the same thing as me! I am wrapped in a blanket, coffee in hand, space heating roaring! gah! :shock:


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## EryBee

Happy birthday to the two of you! I hope Hester enjoys her special chicken treat.


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## Hedgieonboard

Happy Birthday Puffers and Hester  Hope you had a great day. Glad to hear all is doing good with the Hedgies of the North!


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## Puffers315

So, anyone new, darkness can be a very important factor, I've always said this to people, but god just how dark it has to be sometimes, can be extreme.

Loki is my darkness guy, and I keep learning just how dark it has to be. The first month I had him, never provided him with darkness, at least not total darkness. The cage was never covered so the light of my monitor and tv would always be 'around', as I kept both on all the time. Was told Loki was an avid wheeler by his previous owner, but he hadn't really wheeled all that month. Every few days, he'd have a quick marathon, I can still remember laying in bed (their cage is literally 2 feet from me) and watching him dart like a crazy man around in his cage, and jumping on his wheel and running, again, like a crazy man. Once I realized how darkness was an issue, I started to cover the cage with a blackout curtain. He started to wheel more, usually about 30 minutes in the mid-evening, and then an hour or so in the early morning.

Had once incident when I changed the curtain to a blanket, he stopped wheeling, had me worried. Finally noticed the blanket didn't block out enough light, and there was just enough to see the outline of the stuff in his cage. Went back to the curtain.

This week marks the discovery that even the curtain was not enough. Added a thick towel to the curtain itself. Holy crap. In short, his 30 minute jogs are now 2 and half hours in the mid evenings, and then I think an hour or two in the morning, he's always up at 6am.

I've also noted Hester needs more darkness, ever since they had their own room for a month, but she's fine with just the curtain + a blanket to cover up the top area. Downside is I have to remember to remove it, otherwise her lamp will probably burn it. Hester, running wise seems to be somewhat lazy, not sure if its her giant size or nails, but we'll be correcting any problems.


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## MissC

Thanks for your update, as always!!

You're not kidding - what a difference a little light makes!!! Yikes. Makes you wonder how many hedgies are swearing under their breath about power lights on laptops and clock displays on DVD players. 

We're very lucky: Snarf seems to make a point of making an appearance when Jamie sits down to play that stupid xbox. Either he's ignoring Jamie and just doing his thing or he's a Black Ops junkie and is addicted to the murder and mayhem. Either way...they're both happy. :roll:


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## Puffers315

Ah, another month, and actually in a happy / sad kind of way, April marks my first full year of hedgehog ownership. It was the first week of April and using my vacation money that brought me to Vera Lee, my first hedgehog who only lived a month with me. I still remember the trip, was unannounced to anyone in my pickup truck, from Massena NY to Oswego NY which is probably 2.5 hours or more. I had been worried about the trip as the belt on my engine didn't look its best, and had been fearing it would snap (and it did, a month ago). She was a dear, I remember her owner lifting the lid off her nasty log cabin house and she was sleep balled in a corner among the shavings. Said she was a grump about getting up, but as soon as she was up, she went right into explore mode. After a few minutes of having her crawl around on me, the guy asked if I wanted to, I said yes, paid him and put her in the cat carrier. I can still see that cute little rear burrow into the towel I had like she thought nothing of it. Packed her stuff and brought her home.

The most social girl you could probably ever find, didn't ball, didn't hiss, would only give a single huff when you went to pick her up, and even that vanished after a month. She loved her playpen and would spend all night in it, didn't mind baths, and had all her little things that make you love them. Sat in her food dish, would spend several minutes finding just the right piece of food to eat, loved her cardboard box that she'd run around under. Never learned how to wheel, we were working on that when she became sick.

Sadly I know exactly now the course of events of how she died, and know it was a good deal my fault, though at the time I was ignorant of the facts. She had been given a bath, caught a slight chill, caught a URI, the vet I was going to didn't know jack and didn't catch the URI, she stopped eating, I tried to syringe feed her, URI turned to pneumonia, tried other vets who were still too inexperienced, and she died from the pneumonia. Its hard to look back and think what a fool I had been, with all that I've learned in just a year. She had a light on during the day but spent most of the night with my overhead light on, spent most of her time near the floor where it was cooler. She had other issues, most of her teeth were missing, I can only guess the fact she was on a water bottle all her life and really crap food. They claimed she was only a year old but I don't believe it, I can't see how even a one year old could have dark yellow teeth (for the ones she had) worn down to nubs.

Rest in peace my little Vera, you were a classy lady. Hester came 5 days before she passed, I had the intension on introducing them once the 30 days was up. I ponder how it would have worked out, Hester is the opposite of Vera, but not vicious.

Memorial Day will be celebration for Loki for being with me for a year, it was kind of odd, I got one hedgehog who got sick and died, and ended up within two months with two.

Loki is the reason I was making an update, but then it hit me that I had Vera a year ago. He's attitude has changed big time since I've started to use the towel across the front of the cage. I wish I had a pedometer on the wheel so I could see, he's gotta be running 3x what he had been, even now he's behind me running crazy. I use to claim he kept his feet clean, but we're now getting into poopy boots. He's even started to appear at random times in the evening, use to be you wouldn't see him until lights out. Suddenly I'm sitting here at 6pm and suddenly hear food being eaten, click on my tv to the security camera and he's out eating some kibble. Last two times I've done liner changes, I go to lift his tube out only to find its much heavy and huffs at me.

Life goes on at the house of the Northern Hedgehogs, next month is going to be vet month for both of them. Hester is in need of nail clipping, I can get them somewhat but its a two person job, and I'm only one person. Loki having had his previous owner train him, tolerates me doing them in the bath, but I'm having issues getting the front ones.

Cheers!


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## MissC

Thank you so much for sharing. You obviously love your brood and Vera will always have a special place in your heart - she sounded like a special girl. 

I love Loki stories - he always makes me laugh. I always picture him stopping dead in his tracks if so much as a shadow passes by. 

And Hester Sue. What can you say about Ms Grumpuss? I think she just acts tough and deep down loves you to pieces. 

Thanks for the updates. I feel like I know them.


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## shetland

That was a heartfelt post. Sharing what you knew and did not know. How you learned from your mistakes. Having the courage to share that with everyone. I'm sure Vera is proud!


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