# This mix okay?



## hedgieteen (Jun 11, 2012)

1/2 Natural Balance Original Ultra Reduced Calorie Formula 
1/2 Wellness Indoor Health

I'm 15 and new to this, will be adopting from a breeder next month, so any help is greatly appreciated but don't misinform me please. I'll do more research on individual answers as well though, only want the best.  

The other option I have is to 1/3 of the above and add 1/3 Royal Canin Indoor 27, Indoor Adult 27, or Indoor Light.

Let me know what's best. I'd rather only mix 2 brands but will do 3 if it's better. If it's better to do 3, let me know which type of Royal Canin. Thanks and cheers to the hedgies


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## HedgieGirl519 (Oct 21, 2011)

Natural Balance: 
Protein: 35%
Fat: 10.5%
Chicken Meal, Chicken, Brown Rice, Dried Potatoes, Oats, Pearled Barley, Pea Fiber, Pea Protein, Alfalfa Meal, Salmon Meal, Chicken Fat (preserved with natural mixed tocopherols), Lamb Meal, Beet Pulp, Tomato Pomace, Natural Flavor, Carrots, Potatoes, Duck, Dried Egg, Brewers Dried Yeast, Salmon Oil, Salt, Potassium Chloride, Vitamins (vitamin E supplement, niacin supplement, d-calcium pantothenate, vitamin A acetate, thiamine mononitrate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, riboflavin supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement, folic acid), Minerals (zinc sulfate, ferrous sulfate, copper sulfate, manganous sulfate, sodium selenite, calcium iodate), Taurine, Flaxseed Meal, Choline Chloride, Yucca Schidigera Extract, L-Carnitine, DL-Methionine, Iron Amino Acid Chelate, Manganese Amino Acid Chelate, Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Copper Amino Acid Chelate, Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid (preservatives), Kelp Meal, Cranberries, Dried Parsley, L-Lysine, Dried Spinach.

Wellness Indoor Health:
Protein: 30%
Fat: 12%
Deboned Chicken, Chicken Meal, Rice, Ground Barley, Ground Rice, Whitefish Meal, Natural Chicken Flavor, Tomato Pomace, Oat Fiber, Chicken Liver, Chicken Fat (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols, a natural source of Vitamin E), Cranberries, Olive Oil, Chicory Root Extract, Cranberry Extract Powder, Cranberry Fiber, Flaxseed, Potassium Chloride, Vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C), Thiamine Mononitrate, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Beta&ampampampshyCarotene, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B-12 Supplement), Choline Chloride, Minerals (Zinc Proteinate, Zinc Sulfate, Iron Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Manganese Sulfate, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), Glucosamine Hydrochloride, Chondroitin Sulfate, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Dried Kelp, L-Carnitine, Lactobacillus Plantarum, Enterococcus Faecium, Lactobacillus Casei, Lactobacillus Acidophil us, Taurine, Rosemary Extract.

Royal Canin Indoor 27:
Protein: 27%
Fat: 13%
Chicken meal, brown rice, corn, corn gluten meal, rice, chicken fat (naturally preserved with mixed tocopherols, rosemary extract and citric acid), chicken, pea fiber, natural chicken flavor, beet pulp (sugar removed), wheat gluten, dried brewers yeast, rice hulls, sodium silico aluminate, fructo-oligosaccharides, soya oil, salmon oil, sodium chloride, calcium sulfate, dried egg powder, potassium chloride, L-lysine, choline chloride, DL-methionine, sodium tripolyphosphate, taurine, Vitamins [dl-alpha tocopherol (source of vitamin E), L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin C*), niacin, biotin, riboflavin (vitamin B2), d-calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), vitamin B12 supplement, vitamin A acetate, vitamin D3 supplement, folic acid], Trace Minerals [zinc proteinate, zinc oxide, ferrous sulfate, copper proteinate, copper sulfate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, sodium selenite, calcium iodate], L-carnitine, green tea extract.

RC Indoor Adult 27:
Protein: 27%
Fat: 11.5%
Chicken meal, brown rice, rice, corn, corn gluten meal, chicken fat, natural flavors, pea fiber, wheat gluten, rice hulls, dried beet pulp, soybean oil, calcium sulfate, sodium silico aluminate (zeolite), dried brewers yeast, fructo-oligosaccharides, dried egg powder, anchovy oil (source of EPA and DHA omega 3 fatty acids), salt, potassium chloride, taurine, choline chloride, L-lysine, DL-methionine, sodium tripolyphosphate, vitamins [DL-alpha tocopherol acetate (source of vitamin E), L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), niacin, biotin, riboflavin (vitamin B2), D-calcium pantothenate, vitamin A acetate, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), folic acid, vitamin B12 supplement, vitamin D3 supplement], trace minerals [zinc oxide, zinc proteinate, ferrous sulfate, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, calcium iodate, sodium selenite], decaffeinated green tea polyphenols, L-carnitine, preserved with natural mixed tocopherols (source of vitamin E) and citric acid, rosemary extract.

RC Indoor Light:
Protein: 40%
Fat: 8.5%
Chicken meal, corn gluten meal, corn, wheat gluten, pea fiber, rice hulls, natural flavors, brown rice, chicken fat, dried beet pulp, dried brewers yeast, sodium silico aluminate (zeolite), dried egg powder, anchovy oil (source of EPA and DHA omega 3 fatty acids), calcium sulfate, ground psyllium husk, fructo-oligosaccharides, salt, soybean oil, potassium chloride, calcium carbonate, sodium tripolyphosphate, choline chloride, taurine, L-lysine, vitamins [DL-alpha tocopherol acetate (source of vitamin E), L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), niacin, biotin, riboflavin (vitamin B2), D-calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin A acetate, thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), folic acid, vitamin B12 supplement, vitamin D3 supplement], L-carnitine, decaffeinated green tea polyphenols, trace minerals [zinc oxide, ferrous sulfate, zinc proteinate, manganese proteinate, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, copper proteinate, calcium iodate, sodium selenite], preserved with natural mixed tocopherols (source of vitamin E) and citric acid, rosemary extract.

IMO, to be quite honest. None of the above.

The Natural Balance is too high in protein, 35%. The foods shouldn't be higher than 34%. There are some people who will say it's okay as long as you have lower protein foods in the mix, but I personally wouldn't risk it. The ingredients are good in that food, but there are better options from Natural Balance.

Wellness can be too rich for some hedgehogs. Again, I personally wouldn't risk it. The ingredients are good and the protein and fat are good. But be careful of fish being high in the list. Fish products make the poop smell bad, which you don't want 

RC Indoor 27 doesn't have meat as the first two ingredients and has corn as the 3rd/4th ingredient. You don't want corn in the food.

RC Indoor Adult doesn't have meat as the first two ingredients and has corn as the 4th/5th ingredients.

RC Light doesn't have meat as the first two ingredients and has corn as the 2nd/3rd ingredients.

I personally wouldn't feed any of these.

Why are you only choosing foods with chicken as the main ingredient? IMO, you should have foods from different meat sources. So 1 turkey, 1 chicken and 1 lamb. Here are some foods I recommend.

Innova Low Fat Adult (Turkey)
Natural Balance Green Pea and Duck (Pea)
Chicken Soup Adult Cat Light (Chicken)
Solid Gold Katz-n-Flocken (Lamb)
Blue Buffalo Basics Duck & Potato (Duck)

For a food you want:
Protein: 34% and under
Fat: 9-14% (some hedgehogs will need higher fat)
1st Ingredient: Meat
2nd Ingredient: Meat
You don't want corn, by-products or artifical colourings.

I'd do 3+ foods in a mix, from different meat sources. It gives more variety.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

There's been plenty of people on here who have fed Natural Balance, and personally, it's one of my favorite foods.  My hedgehog Lily loved the limited ingredient duck formula. I have also read about Wellness causing stomach problems, but it just depends on the hedgehog. Lily didn't have any problems with it, but others on here have. Sometimes they do okay with it if there's only a small amount of it in the mix, and if you get over a certain amount, then they start having loose poops. Different meats are a nice thing, to give more variety, but it's not a required thing. I know Lily's favorite food in her mix was the one that had lamb, Solid Gold.

To be honest, you seem like you're doing fine! You're already going into this better prepared than I did when I first got Lily, so kudos.  I personally think you'd do fine with the two foods you mentioned, without adding the Royal Canin. Keep in mind, too, that it (as always) depends on the hedgehog. Some of them can be terribly picky about kibble shapes/sizes, and so on. Also, welcome to HHC!  I hope you stick around so we can see pics of your new little one when you get him/her!


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## nikki (Aug 28, 2008)

I have been using the Natural Balance Ultra Lite for years now with no problems. I would personally want less Wellness in the mix as its been known to cause upset stomachs in some hedgies. I'd add a 3 food and mix it 2 parts NB, 2 parts other, and 1 part wellness.


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## HedgieGirl519 (Oct 21, 2011)

nikki said:


> I have been using the Natural Balance Ultra Lite for years now with no problems. I would personally want less Wellness in the mix as its been known to cause upset stomachs in some hedgies. I'd add a 3 food and mix it 2 parts NB, 2 parts other, and 1 part wellness.


The Natural Balance has 35% protein, but a few days ago you said:



nikki said:


> Personally I don't use anything with protien over 32% in my mix.


That doesn't add up to me..


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## nikki (Aug 28, 2008)

Obviously I made a mistake on the post that says I don't use over 32%, I had forgotten that NB was 35%, I've been feeding the same mix for years and haven't looked at the labels in awhile.


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## hedgieteen (Jun 11, 2012)

So I am going to see if my pet store carries Chicken Soup For The Cat Lovers Soul Adult Formula Lite, is that a good food to be feeding? If it's a good one, I may order off the internet, considering they don't eat very much. It is as follows: Protein: 32% Fat: 9%

Is 35% protein okay or no? I'd really like to use Natural Balance as well, but won't if it's not healthy, of course. It is Protein: 35% Fat: 10.5%

If 35% is do-able I'd mix these two and then what's a good 3rd? Or is just these two okay?
Again, I have Wellness Indoor and Royal Canin available at my local store

All of the Royal Canin have Chicken Meal as a 1st ingredient but not 2nd or 3rd. Is that okay if it's being mixed with the above two?
and are as follows (thanks HedgieGirl519!!)
Royal Canin Indoor 27:
Protein: 27%
Fat: 13%

Royal Canin Indoor Adult 27:
Protein: 27%
Fat: 11.5%

Royal Canin Indoor Light:
Protein: 40%
Fat: 8.5%

ALSO
Is this cage okay? It is the last one http://hedgehogsbyvickie.com/cages.htm and is 28" X 16" X 14"
It does not have the upper shelf.
She will have a snuggle sack too. Which is good! I just can't decide on her main mix! I want it to be GOOD!!!! 

My babes will be a female I think, and will be bought from http://www.angelfire.com/blog/kymwanash ... site1.html next month. Her name is undecided but I like Pandora. And Spit. Or Dribble. Maybe Sneeze, haha.


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## HedgieGirl519 (Oct 21, 2011)

Chicken Soup For The Cat Lovers Soul is good 

35%, IMO, is too high. But other people say it's fine and use it, so it's really up to you.

I want to add, you may find that using very low fat foods might be a problem with a baby. She might not gain enough weight.

Out of the two options (Wellness and Royal Canin), I'd use neither and just use the Natural Balance and Chicken Soup. I personally wouldn't want to risk using Wellness, and getting loose stool. To me, it's not worth the risk. I'd personally never use Royal Canin (unless I had to), because of the corn. Corn is a filler. You can use Wellness and see what happens.

The Royal Canin Indoor Light, is way to high in protein (40%).

I wouldn't use that cage. It's way to small. It's only 3 square feet. The complete minimum is 4 square feet. Also, if you use a CSW, it would be too short. You'd also have to put coroplast all along the sides because a hedgehog could very easily climb that.

Look into making a C&C cage. You can make a 2x2 (5.4 square feet) for like $30-$40. All you need is grids http://www.walmart.com/ip/Whitmor-White ... ed/5005200 (Make sure there is 9 squares going across the grid, not 5), coroplast http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-25ecodZ ... reId=10051 and cable ties http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/sto ... 046280-_-N .


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## hedgieteen (Jun 11, 2012)

I have a C&C for my guinea pigs, and can make one for the hedgie. But is this one okay for her first month or two until I gather the finances to make one?
What is CSW?
Thanks


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## Immortalia (Jan 24, 2009)

Natural Balance is a great food. One of the better ones out there because it's a limited ingredient formula. Which means most additives you see in other pet foods won't be found in this one. 

Wellness is another awesome quality food. Though some hedgies may find it to be too rich. My boy never had a problem with it and loved it. I only switched it out because he also hates that particular kibble shape lol


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## HedgieGirl519 (Oct 21, 2011)

The CSW is a Carolina Storm Wheel. There is also a Carolina Storm Bucket Wheel. These wheels are made by LarryT for this forum and are the best wheels for hedgehogs. They are completely quiet, easy to clean and safe. The only other wheel options are a suitable homemade bucket wheel or a 12" Giant Comfort Wheel. But if you get a Comfort Wheel, it has to be tied to the bars of the cage, because it falls easily. It is also loud and VERY hard to clean. The CSW and CSBW are the best options. But if you are using a C&C, I'd recommend the Carolina Storm Bucket Wheel. It's shorter and fits in a C&C nicely. The CSW is too tall and you'd have to make adjustments.

For a C&C for hedgehogs, the coroplast needs to be at least 8" up the sides and must have a lid . Just so you know.

You could use that cage, but it is very tiny. Once you get a wheel and house in there won't be room to move around. If you get that cage, you will have to put coroplast, or something else that is hard and smooth up the walls, at least 8". Hedgehogs can climb up, but can't get back down. So they fall which can cause injury. IMO, that cage is a waste of money. You should use a clear, plastic bin for a temporary cage instead. This one would be good, and is tall enough for the CSBW:
http://www.sterilite.com/SelectProduct. ... &section=1

It's 33 1/8" L x 20 1/4" W x 14 3/4" H. It's 4.5 square feet. All you have to do is put holes around the sides. Then make a lid. Will you be using a CHE?


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## nikki (Aug 28, 2008)

I wouldn't use that cage at all, the cages that are sold on that site are not good for hedgies, you shouldn't have a metal floor, its to small, the ledge is dangerous and I've heard they have sharp edges.


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## HedgieGirl519 (Oct 21, 2011)

That cage is very over priced and not safe. Did you buy it already? If not, I wouldn't. You can make a C&C cage for half the price. That is much, much bigger and safer. 

Also, don't use a water bottle. I'm not sure if you know this or not . But it's on her site, so I thought I'd mention it. Ceramic water bowls are better than bottles. Water bottles can:
-Chip and break teeth
-Catch or pinch the tongue
-Strain the neck (unnatural drinking position)
-Doesn't give enough water fast enough. 

Bowls are better  But make sure the bowl is heavy (ceramic). They can easily tip plastic bowls. Then they'd be out of water for the night or day and could get dehydrated. They could also get cold if the water spilled on them.


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