# Phosphorus and calcium ratios



## Mjskates (May 14, 2017)

I was looking into giving willow a raw diet but idk if I will do it or not but anyways I was reading about the calcium and phosphorus ratios and I know they are important in raw diets but if I’m just feeding kibble and a lot of insects do I need to worry about it?


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## Mjskates (May 14, 2017)

So do I need to add calcium to supplement insects?


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## Yukidama's mama (Apr 4, 2017)

I have the same concern and confused whether I should and of course don't want to do more damage than good. I'm also planning to start feeding a raw diet (alongside kibble too).

From what I've read and been advised by others who do raw is that the kibble should supply the minerals and vitamins they need but if feeding a lot of insects with a poor Ca ratio (like superworms) and the kibble you feed also contains peas as one of he main ingredients then you could dust with calcium once a week or so.

My concern is using a calcium supplement with added Vit D3 though, as it is fat soluable when it is in a synthetic form in a supplement which means it gets stored in the animal and can cause them more harm than good over a period of time and more risk of overdose. But vit D3 is needed so calcium can be absorbed sufficiently. With reptiles, they can bypass vit d3 supplements by using UVB lighting but since hedgehogs are nocturnal this wouldn't help ><. I've read that whole prey foods like pinkies and 1 day old chicks are high in D3 as well as egg yokes and fish oils so I think what I plan to do is use Nutrobal (which is a vitamin and mineral supplement with added D3 that works as a calcium/phosphorus equaliser) once a week on a day I feed BARF and insects (+kibble) and once a week I'll feed whole prey, insects and kibble and use calcium with no D3. The other days I'll use no added supplements. If using a commercially prepared BARF diet, it will contain ground up bones (as well as organs etc) so calcium will also be provided this way. 

If you have any thoughts on my plan (or anyone else reading this) please let me know. If you have your own idea please feel free to share too  

There's a raw diet for hedgehogs group on facebook I recommend joining if you do want to start feeding raw to get more ideas ^^


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## Draenog (Feb 27, 2012)

If you are feeding kibble the chances you have to supplement calcium are small, unless your kibble contains a lot of phosphorus rich foods (like peas) and the only insects you feed are mealworms and supers. 

Kibble usually already contains calcium in a balanced Ca ratio (check the bag) and if you are feeding a mix of balanced insects, including insects with a more balanced Ca, you shouldn't have any issues. The only calcium issues I've heard of in hedgehogs came from unbalanced pea rich diets and mealworm only diets. 

Re: calcium + D3, it's what's being fed to tenrecs (as they are more prone to calcium issues & more picky when it comes to kibble, which makes it more difficult to feed them a balanced diet) and there seem to be no issues so far, and they have a much longer lifespan than hedgehogs (granted, they are not hedgehogs - so maybe hedgehogs would react differently to synthetic D3, but so far it doesn't seem to be an issue in other species).


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