# Not wheeling at all, and not eating as much



## jdlover90 (Jun 14, 2010)

For the past 3 weeks Quilly has not been wheeling at all. Also, he has not been eating as much as he used to (he usually eats all of his food but lately he's only been eating 1/4 as much). The temperature is 76.4 degrees in his cage and if he gets too hot he has the option of going to a cooler section of his cage. 

Wheel is a Carolina Storm Wheel.


We've clipped his nails so that isn't the issue for the wheeling. He's been more active lately throughout the day and only slightly active at night, minus wheeling. We can hear him playing with his toys. His old behavior was to wheel first for about 5 minutes then he would walk to his food and eat, then sleep - then repeat the rest of the night. 

He also isn't pooping as much and they are smaller poops. They are about half the size of what they used to be. They also seem to be slightly darker in color. (Like a dark brown vs medium brown.)

He seems to be drinking the same as usual, but peeing less.

Quilly is still acting the same while being handled or cuddled with. He's not losing more quills or fur than a hedgehog usually loses normally. He still eats mealworms like crazy and he does like the food we provide for him. A few times out of the past few weeks a couple of the kibble bits left in the food bowl are crunched up into bits. 

Food is Inova Low fat Adult cat food, Chicken Soup for the Cat lover's Soul, and a third one I cant remember the exact name of but I'd like to say Authority (black bag) low fat

Any advice or help would be appreciated.


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## jdlover90 (Jun 14, 2010)

Also, Before, he used to pee about 3-4 times a day and poop about 5-6 times a day. Now its more like pee once or twice, and pooping small poops about 2-3 times a day.

Skin is the same, (slightly dry, but not flaky.)

I did give him a bath the other day with olive oil. Next time i'll do Aveeno Oatmeal bath + olive oil. He also gets flax seed oil cap drops on his body once a week and occasionally about 5 drops on his food. He still eats the food when we do this.

He did poop twice in the bath and they were a little larger than the ones he has been doing lately but looked very soft in the water.


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## Mommatobe (Apr 5, 2012)

If he has not been eating well the last 3 weeks then that would account for the decreased size of his bowel movements. Also I would question if he is drinking less as well. Have you weighed him lately to see how much he as potentially lost? I would definitely have him examined by a vet as soon as possible so you can hopefully find out what the problem is and get him eating again soon, and if not then you should start force feeding him. As for not using his wheel if he is feeling poorly enough not to eat well then he probably does not have the energy / desire to wheel. Another thing is how old is your food mix? If over 6 months then you should toss it. It is best to only keep food ofr about 6 months and only keep about a months worth out at a time and freeze the rest so it stays fresh. Goodluck and let us know how he does.


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## jdlover90 (Jun 14, 2010)

Food is approx 2 months old. 

Have a vet appt set for Tuesday (earliest the only hedgehog vet is available) I'll have him weighed there too. He has lost some weight but that may be due to giving him 2 low-fat foods for the past 2 months.


In the meantime, I just bought some unseasoned canned pumpkin so i'm going to see if that helps at all.


Should I change the temperature in the cage at all? Its a CHE setup with the 500R thermostat and a thermometer so I can change it pretty easily.


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## Mommatobe (Apr 5, 2012)

The temperature should be fine. My Emma's cage is around 75 to 77 and she does well with that temp. As for the pumpkin not sure if you should start that or not. His small bowel movements are most likely from his decreased food intake and not a fibre thing. If you can blend his food with some water or call the vet and ask if you can pick up some a/d canned to force feed him till he is seen Tuesday I would entertain that over the pumpkin. Goodluck


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## nikki (Aug 28, 2008)

How old is he? Also do you have a light schedule for him?


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## jdlover90 (Jun 14, 2010)

He is 2 years and 5 months.

His light schedule is from 9 Am to about 7 Pm, which is just through the room light being on/off. Also sometimes just with the light off but allowing the daylight to come in if the sun is in the right place.


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## jdlover90 (Jun 14, 2010)

Update: I think it could be a bad constipation issue. I finally saw him attempting to poop and he was pushing out but nothing was happening until he kind of just gave up and kept walking.


This morning, there was a total of one poop but this time it was 3/4 size which is the biggest i've seen in awhile from him.

Will be giving him a bath shortly to see if I can get him to poop a bit in the meantime. 

Should I also crush his food into little bits?


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## jdlover90 (Jun 14, 2010)

Update before bath: Here's a pic of his poop from today so far. They are about the length of your fingernail. (Minus the 1 from last night, which was twice the size of these) He also seems to have some dried poop around his butt hairs. He also peed once which was a light yellow circle a little bigger than a closed fist.


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## jdlover90 (Jun 14, 2010)

Just finished a very long bath (like 25 mins) trying to get him to poop. Was rubbing his belly and underneath his body. 

Before the bath when I was about to pick him up I noticed that he was shaking a bit trying to poop for about 5 secs before he gave up and walked into his blanket.

Ended up raising the water level a bit when I noticed that he had finally pooped while trying to swim in the sink. So I put him in the bathtub and put the water level at the height for swimming on the deep end and kept setting him down there to swim back up to the shallow end. He ended up "pooping" 3 more times. 

In the sink it was like a 3/4 size turd that was greenish and had like green moss around it. The poops in the tub were very small-like balls and were very soft and looked like little balls of moss including the hairy moss look. In between those he had like a green and clear film come out that looked like mucus out of your nose. While he was swimming I could tell he was trying to poop the whole time due to his butt sticking out normally like it would when he is about to poop. He didn't have part of his intestine sticking out this time thankfully.

Also gave him a very small amount of unseasoned pumpkin before the bath. He took about 2 bites until he refused to eat it. 
I also gave him some "GNC pets high calorie booster" paste. The lady at petsmart said its the same thing as the Nutri-Cal that others have used before. (Dietary Cat Supplement) Gave it to him through a needleless syringe and he loved it.
Also tried to give him some prune juice but he wouldn't even try it. May try doing 100% organic apple juice tomorrow along with more pumpkin. 

I am really starting to think that the severe constipation issues are causing his loss of appetite and no desire to wheel. He is still playing with his toilet paper rolls and blankets though throughout the day and some at night. I would say he ate about 10 kibble last night and about 5 so far today. Will actually count tonight. I am giving him a teaspoon and a half of food rounded scoops.


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## jdlover90 (Jun 14, 2010)

Was just watching him after I put him in and he is walking around but it seems that when he walks his back legs/feet are kind of pointed inward toward each other?
He also shook himself I guess to dry himself more/itch and he feel down before getting back up again.


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## hedgielover (Oct 30, 2008)

That doesn't sound good, I'm sorry he's not himself. Hopefully the vet will have more to say. I think you should syringe feed him something. Anything you can get really. I always used baby food since it's so readily available and it was sort of a long trip for me to get to my vet for anything else. Syringe feeding food water and the pumpkin until you get to the vet can't hurt.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

I agree with hedgielover, syringing food and water would be a good idea, just to try and get something into him. Not sure what could be going on, but I hope the vet can give more answers. :? I wonder if it's possible he has a blockage from something? Good luck and I hope the vet visit goes well tomorrow. Please keep us updated.


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## Iluvvhedgiez (Aug 21, 2012)

I, personally, think it is a probable Urinary Tract Infection, my Hoggie just had this 2 weeks ago and is still on antibiotics for it. His symptoms sound very very similar and Hoggie was tending to himself alot as well for "boy-time". My other guess would be maybe a blockage, but since he is pooping that may be less likely. Did he eat any paper towel ya think, or do you use YesterdaysNews for the litter pan? Good call on going to the vet ASAP. I hope they can help him out!


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## jdlover90 (Jun 14, 2010)

I use paper towels. I don't think he actually eats any, but he likes to tear them up and wrap himself up and pull it over him to make a blanket out of them sometimes.

I've never seen 'moss-like' poop before. It was weird. 

I'd also like to note that as I was collecting the poop throughout the cage he was chasing me as if I had mealworms in my hand, which I thought was odd. I've seen him eat dry poop before, but usually its a random event.

For tonight, I crushed up most of his food to ranging from almost powder-bits to just chopped into 1/3'rds. His appointment is for Tuesday, the soonest the hedgie vet is available. 

To syringe cat-food with water I blend it with water to put in the syringe? 

And for syringing the pumpkin will it go into the syringe out of the can or does it need to be blended as well? It seems pretty thick.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

For the cat food, yeah, just mix it with water and try it through the syringe until it goes through smoothly. Pumpkin, you might need to warm it up or water it down a tad to get it to go through. I've never tried syringing it, but I remember it being pretty thick too.


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## hedgielover (Oct 30, 2008)

baby food is the easiest to syringe, besides the food you can get from the vet like carnivore care and hills a/d, I was always able to syringe the baby food right from the jar. You can syringe water separately as well to get more water into him.


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## jdlover90 (Jun 14, 2010)

Alright thanks for the tips.

Just finished counting his food and he ate approx 15-16 Kibble, which is a lot more than he has been eating. Most of the ones he ate were the crushed up ones but he ate some full pieces too. 

Just watched him wake up briefly and go to his poop spot. He ended up peeing first then pooping a full size'd turd for the first time in a few weeks. It was dark brown and diarrhea green. It took him about 4 minutes to poop and he was pushing then stopping the whole time. He still ended up getting some poop stains on his butt hair though. 


He let out like some bird noise grunt in the beginning of his poop, but it didn't sound or look like he was in pain. I'm guessing he was trying really hard to get it out and to stay with it? 

Then he crawled back into his blankets and is sleeping again for now.


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## Mommatobe (Apr 5, 2012)

Make sure they check him for intestinal parasites too. So try to bring a poop sample with you. I know a heavy coccidia burden can cause constipation in bearded dragons, wondering if that may be what is going on. Goodluck!


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## jdlover90 (Jun 14, 2010)

He has also been dropping his butt on the ground while trying to poop and while he walks sometimes. Not sure if he is itching it because of the dried poop on his butt hairs or what.


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## jdlover90 (Jun 14, 2010)

*Update:*

Just got back from the Vet.

He weighs 665 grams. Last visit last year I'd like to say he was 750-775 grams (He was pretty much obese.)

He took him under anesthesia and examined him and gave him X-rays.

He said that Quilly has *a GI or gastrointestinal infection/virus. * And basically has a bunch of gas stuck in him. This is causing him to feel bad and not want to eat/wheel etc. And him walking with his back legs pointed in was due to him tucking his feet up from his aches.

*Prescribed an antibiotic called "Albon" Its a white-vanilla looking liquid. Said to give him .2 mL every day and that it should clear up within 48-72 hours.  
*
He said that his body checked out fine, he breathes fine, bladder is fine too.

Quilly surprisingly behaved pretty well and didn't hiss or ball up on him. Probably due to him feeling like crap.

When he woke up he was pretty hungover looking flopping around not knowing how to walk right lol.

Will let you know how he recovers. Hopefully everything goes well.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

Glad you guys found out what it is! Poor little guy, I hope he feels better very soon.


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## Mommatobe (Apr 5, 2012)

Glad to hear it isn't anything too serious...goodluck with the meds and let us know how he does.


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## jdlover90 (Jun 14, 2010)

Well he is on day 3 of the medicine. 

Last night he was acting super aggressive and raging around his cage. He literally took down one of the walls in his cage that was held on by duct-tape. When I looked at him up-close he ended up biting the C&C cage bars twice where duct-tape residue was and was latching on until I touched him a few times. 

Then he was reaching up and biting the thermometer plastic which he usually ignores, along with chasing my hand/finger in the cage really fast. Today he was biting this keychain that's on the outside of this fuzzy sack he usually lays in.

Not sure if he is super pissed about the medicine or what. 

Day 1 on the medicine he didn't poop or pee at all. Day 2 he pooped a close to full size turd and peed once. And today he pooped about half a size one and peed once.

Found out this morning that the expiration date on 2 of the 3 foods is November 2012, even though I bought them 2 months ago. Figured that may be affecting his appetite somewhat so I went out and bought a bag of Blue Buffalo Wilderness. Got him to eat maybe 3-4 pieces of that and he wouldn't touch the other food. Also served him a can of wet-cat food real duck/chicken. He ate about 2 pieces of small chicken then took the 3rd piece and chewed it for awhile before dropping it back into the can and walking away from it. Also gave him 3 meal worms which he gobbled up once he found them. I know its a lot of different food to give him but I know I have to get him to eat or at least have diarrhea.

The vet said 3 days to clear it up but I have not seen much improvement. Tomorrow I will be blending up some of his cat-food and syringe feeding him it along with the medicine. May also give him some high-fat paste again.


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## AngelaH (Jul 24, 2012)

Thanks for the update. Poor guy, I really hope he's better soon!


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## TzusnHedgies (Sep 25, 2012)

I'm really interested in what's going on with the little guy. The aggressive part doesn't make sense to me. Please keep us updated.


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## hedgielover (Oct 30, 2008)

I think it was Nancy that once told me that hedgehogs who are in pain might show it by becoming crazy hyper, tearing up and destroying their cage or being really active. I wonder if that is what's causing his aggression to.


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## jdlover90 (Jun 14, 2010)

Update:

He actively went to the food bowl to eat 3 times last night. Ate more than he has in the past 3 weeks, but still about 20ish kibble total. Did not pee however he pooped once about the size of a small grain/rock. Still being

He is still being very aggressive. Fought the thermometers by getting on his hind legs and chomping at them, Then one would get hit and swing around and hit him and he would keep battling them for a good 2-3 mins while huffing. If you walk up to the cage or try to put your hand or finger in the cage he instantly reacts to it by jerking his head/body toward you and lunging at full speed sometimes. Tried to bite me about 4 times while handling him and he kept wanting to walk over my arms while I was laying down. When I tried to make a new 'hand wall' he would attempt to bite. I could tell it was a pretty weak bite though. Also looked at my Gf and chomped the air toward her. I would definitely call him hyper as well when he is in this 'mode' He did cuddle with me awhile after and slept with no raging though.

Early in the day after giving him medicine I saw him try to poop but he gave up again and went back to sleep. He drank water probably about 4 times throughout.He does seem to like the 4th food (Blue Buffalo) I introduced. He will sometimes randomly eat pieces on the ground when he walks by them.

Gave him some GNC pet high calorie gel about 10 mins ago. Loved eating it once again. Saw that he had a lot of poop stuck/attached to his butt. It was a huge gob of it. Noticed that it was *very dark and tar-like.* While still having him on his back I tried to use a paper towel to get it off of him. At first it was so sticky that only like a 1/4 of it came off, but it looked like stretching gum while pulling on it before it broke off. Took another 2 tries to get all I could off of him besides the dark strands on his butt hairs. His anus itself seems fine, and I squished the almost black-tar-like poop and it was a very dark brown/greenish tint to it. Did not see any red on his anus or in the poop. Total poop was in the shape and size of a quarter/oval-ish while attached to his anus.

I'm hoping that the tar-like poop is due to the added stress and medicine he is taking.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

Poor guy.  I'm not sure on the aggressive behavior, except that maybe it's because he doesn't feel good like hedgielover said. The color/consistency of the new poop is likely because of the antibiotics - they tend to upset the GI system because they kill good bacteria as well as the bad. You can help counter that by giving him probiotics between antibiotic doses. You can use small animal Benebac, or I used acidophilus, which you can get in the pharmacy section of a store, with the vitamins and such. It comes in little plastic pills and (at least the ones I got) you can pull the two halves apart and just sprinkle a good sized pinch of the powder on his food. If you want to make sure he gets it, you could mix the pinch in with the high calorie gel that you're giving him. Just make sure that it's midway between antibiotic doses, or the antibiotics will kill the good bacteria in the acidophilus and make it useless.

If the vet thought he'd be doing better after three days and he's still not much improved, I would call and give them an update on his behavior and condition. They may want to see him again or change something in his treatment.


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## jdlover90 (Jun 14, 2010)

He has a vet appointment for tomorrow at 9am. 

Will update tomorrow . Today he has pretty much slept all day , got his medicine, then went back to sleep. He did pee and it was the biggest I've seen. It was about 2 closed fists put together on the towel. Hasn't popped today but yesterday had 3 small 'pebble' sized poops, which were a dark brown. I did notice that 2 of them looked like they had fur attatched to them.


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## jdlover90 (Jun 14, 2010)

*Update*:

Just got back from the vet. He checked his stool / pee and everything was ok there. No parasites or anything.

In the car noticed that he had 2 quills come off the the skin attached. Then he tried picking up the quills and eating the skin off of it :?

He felt his stomach and could tell he was still backed up. Quilly was really calm about it.

Prescribed a new medicine, "*Biomox*" And to take .1mL twice a day. And if it doesn't get better in 4-5 days to come back. Let's hope this time it works better!


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## hedgielover (Oct 30, 2008)

Good luck! I hope the new meds work!


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## Moki_Pokie (Mar 23, 2010)

Hi. I was wondering how Quilly was doing since my little guy Moki is having some similar symptoms it seems. It started about a week ago with a runny nose sneezes and bloating. I got Moki into the vet and she gave me two different antibiotics to help him recover if it was a GI issue or an Upper Respiratory infection and while at first it seemed to help since 2 days after I started the medicine he "de-bloated" and was starting to eat my himself again but then randomly it all came back again and I took him into the vet and she wasn't sure exactly caused the relapse. So has me continuing the original medicine as well as some pain meds in case there's some pain that stressed him out further. 
Unlike Quilly though Moki has been going to the bathroom fine and I have him on a syringe fed diet of a mix of pumpkin baby food and soft kibble to keep him feed and prevent diarrhea. So I'm thinking its mainly gas in Moki but I was just wondering if the vet had any other ideas for Quilly that might be relevant to my little guy. 
Thanks~


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## jdlover90 (Jun 14, 2010)

The only other thing the vet mentioned was Colitis with the GI. I guess you can try doing _Biomox _or _Albon _ as well to see if it will help your hoglet. He has been taking it at .1mL twice a day since Tuesday and had a total of 2 full size poops (1 actually pooped out the other had to be removed from his butt.) I do feel he has debloated a bit as well, which I hope is a good sign. His aggressiveness has decreased too, but he still is attacking the thermometer but not charging our hands or fingers in the cage anymore. His appetite has gotten slightly better once again but nowhere near what it should be. And to top it off I just looked at 2 of the newer foods that I bought about 2 months ago and the expiration date is this November, so I am thinking the food could be stale causing a loss of appetite on top of his already low appetite from being sick. So now tomorrow morning I'll try and get the same two foods but make sure they are still fresh. I have also been noticing that he is losing a pretty good amount of quills at about 10ish a day. I figure that is from the stress of being sick though.

He has not had a runny nose or anything like that though so I'm not sure what can be causing that exactly. Goodluck trying to figure it out, it seems each of these issues can be anything.

Quilly has been pretty sleepy today, when I woke him up to give him medicine he had trouble keeping his eyes open and caught him plopped on the cage floor three times with his head curled up or straight out. He was very active last night though and when he was awake today wandering around. Last night I caught him watching me sleep out of the corner of the cage for a few minutes before huffing, kinda creepy.


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## jdlover90 (Jun 14, 2010)

Update:

Yesterday, he seemed to be eating alot more. He went to his bowl probably 6 times to eat. In total he probably ate about half a teaspoon and about 30 kibble. In the morning, I noticed that he pooped full size really dark/tarish poop twice. Today he has been eating throughout the day as well as drinking longer than he has been. He pooped again full size dark poops about 4 times. Overall his appetite and drinking habits are almost back to normal. (Probably about 70-75%)

He is still losing quills at a pretty high rate though (3-5 everytime he is given medicine and probably about 7 on the cage floor in the morning) And he is having really dry skin after his flax seed oil bath. Still has yet to touch the wheel since being sick, hopefully that changes. 

When I came home from school tonight I caught him eating a dark/tarry poop. Well, he ended up getting the main piece stuck on the top of his mouth and then tried to chew it for about 10 minutes -_- Wiped half of it away but the rest I think he swallowed. So now he has some poop smeared on his fur under his chin. It does turn green still which is good. 

Have a vet appointment for 11 Am tomorrow to give him a checkup on his condition and if I should keep giving him Biomox.


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## jdlover90 (Jun 14, 2010)

Update # 5309

Got back from the vet, He is getting better and he gave me this cat-nutritional powder packet to put on his food as well as giving him biomox for 4 more days since he is healing slowly. His poop still checked out fine. Quilly was doing good enough to ball up and huff and hiss at him trying to feel him and touch him compared to the last couple times not doing anything. 

Best part was he said the visit was free  

So hopefully it will be cleared up enough by the end of the week where he will start wheeling too.


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## jdlover90 (Jun 14, 2010)

And here's a short vid of him attacking/playing with the thermometers. He stops here about halfway through but he usually does this for about 5-10 mins at a time  He bobs and weaves too and I have seen him stand on his hind legs for a bit and swing at it.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

Glad he's feeling better!  And I love those free vet visits...got a couple of those while Lily was sick and it was so nice!


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## jdlover90 (Jun 14, 2010)

*Update*:

Since I stopped doing the Biomox last Friday, his appetite and poops were increased, but still tar-like for the most part minus a few normal-ish shaped ones but dark.

The past 3 days his appetite has *decreased* again, his drinking has increased, and his poop has decreased. Took him 2 days to poop 2 small pellet sized poops and 1 half size one that were dark brown and a little tarry. Last night I noticed that he had some poop slightly coming out of his but but he didn't actually poop it out til the next day in the late afternoon. He is still peeing alot though.

He is back to acting grumpy and huffing like he normally behaves and isn't being aggressive.

_Another _ thing that I have noticed the last few days are that he has developed some eye crust on the corner of his eyes like people do and he sometimes has his eyes slightly closed and blinks alot. I would describe it as looking like he is really sleepy. His left eye does it about 3 times more than his right.

There is no mucus discharge and his eyes look clear.

Also has yet to wheel since he has been sick. Tried putting him on it and he just walked off.

Will be calling the vet tomorrow.


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## LarryT (May 12, 2009)

I was hoping he was getting better, it seems you just can't catch a break, will keep the little guy in my prayers.


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## AngelaH (Jul 24, 2012)

Thanks for the update. Quilly - you need to eat and get better!


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## jdlover90 (Jun 14, 2010)

Update:

The vet checked out his eyes with a light and they seemed fine. Quilly's eyes were not blinking alot or half open/sleepy today. Happened to poop right before the vet handled him so he got a fresh sample and it still had some bacteria in it along with his stomach being blocked up a bit.

He prescribed "_ClinDrops_" also known as _clindamycin_, at .15 mL twice a day for the week. It is supposed to help with the bacteria some more and I also looked up that it can help skin. (Also is good for gum/tooth/mouth problems)

On Quilly's vet visit today he lost 50 Quills. I think they were mainly caused from the stress with the vet and he was huffing and popping up alot for the whole time. He only huffs and pops around the vet and no one else lol. His skin is really dry too and he will be getting an olive + flax seed oil bath in a little bit.

Besides that he loses probably about 10-12 quills a day just being handled and walking around. Wherever he sleeps usually 2-3 fall off in the morning from him rotating around.

HOPEFULLY this 3rd medicine works!


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## jdlover90 (Jun 14, 2010)

Update:

Well after 7 days I stopped giving him the new medicine last Tuesday. Seeing how he does off of the medicine for a few days now. 

He is pooping decently but it looks like small sausage links half of the time. Poop is much thinner in size for most of the poops. Other times it is still dark and tar-like, although not nearly as tarry looking as it has been previous weeks. He hasn't gotten poop stuck in/on his butt for the whole time he has been on the new medicine.

Appetite is roughly the same, still below what it used to be but he is at least eating consistently throughout the day.

Water intake is pretty high, sometimes almost drinking all of the small bowl in a night. 


Tried to put him on the wheel (Carolina Storm Wheel) last night for the first time in a few weeks, and he immediately tries to get off of it. I kept my hand against the wheel and he was kind of shaking (as if not knowing how to balance himself on the wheel) back and forth and trying to frantically get off the wheel. He didn't even take a step forward and try to run at all until I let him go back to walking around and fighting his thermometers. 


Will be calling the vet Monday to hopefully have an appointment for Tuesday.


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## jdlover90 (Jun 14, 2010)

decided to count his kibble for each flavor in a 24 hr span

Started with:

Authority - weight management 15 - Ate 0

Innova low fat- 15- Ate 0

Royal Canin Indoor Adult 27 15- Ate 10

Blue Buffalo Wilderness indoor 25- Ate 11

So 21 kibble total from 2/4 foods in 24 hours :? Should I get a 5th cat food non low fat?

Vet set for Tues at 3 for his eating/pooping struggles/not wheeling/new grey bump behind ear


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## hedgielover (Oct 30, 2008)

oh that is a weird bump,  hopefully it's nothing. Your poor hedgehog and poor you having to go through so many health issues. At least he is eating something though, 21 isn't a lot but it's better than nothing. Did he eat the Authority and Innova before? Maybe he just doesn't like them.


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## shmurciakova (Sep 7, 2008)

I have gotta say, that ear does not look good! What did the vet say about that? also what are the bumps on the skin behind the ear? I would certainly e-mail the vet with a picture of his ear and go back in, especially if the ear did not look like that before. He might have a fungus or something...in the meantime you might put a dab of the regular strength Neosporin on it. My hedgie had ratty ears when I first got her and Neosporin solved the problem, but they were not crusty w/ puss like that..I assume the vet checked his skin when he knocked him out a few weeks ago?

Also, you might try a simple thing to help with the constipation. Put some flax seed oil, or olive oil on his food. - just a couple of drops, don't drench it or anything. That is what I always used when my first hog got plugged up and it seemed to work very well.
Get that ear checked out for sure, poor little guy!
Susan H.


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## jdlover90 (Jun 14, 2010)

repost


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## jdlover90 (Jun 14, 2010)

The vet visit is tomorrow at 3. He hasn't seen the bump yet. Last time he did not have that spot on his ear or maybe it was impossible to see from quills previously being there.

I will try the neosporin on his ears and flax seed oil drops on his food to see if that will help him. 

It looks like like yellow puss/slimy due to me putting half a cap of flax seed oil around his ears to help with the dryness. Put the other half around his body. Seems to help for awhile with the flaky skin when he absorbs it.

He does have some crust that develops on the outside of his ears though.


About the food, he did eat the Authority and Innova before (About a month ago before the 2 other foods were introduced) It seems like now he just prefers the other two and will occasionally eat Authority and Innova but maybe 5 of each tops.

On the brightside he does still seem fairly active in the cage fighting his thermometers and outside the cage exploring on his blanket.


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## jdlover90 (Jun 14, 2010)

Update:

He lost about 25 Quills on the way there.

Got gassed at the vet and determined that:

-The grey ball by his ear is an ingrown quill and he has another (smaller) one more toward his body. He scraped off the big ball for the most part and the other one had yellow pus in it.

-Has a fungal infection and that's why he has been losing quills lately and from the antibiotics taking too much good bacteria out. Something alone those lines :?

-Prescribed "*Ketoconazole*" which I had to go to a local pharmacy to have them make it because they didn't have small amounts to mix for a hog

-They had a bunch of fruity flavors or Chicken flavored so I choose the chicken one, seems to not mind his 1st dose of it.

-Told me to give him the medicine .1 mL once a day for 3 weeks to see if he recovers.

-So basically he is hoping the fungal medicine will help his skin/quill loss and said that the fungal infection can contribute to the GI infection, so it could get rid of it.

-Lost another 25 quills on the trip back and while waiting for the pharmacy to make the medicine.

So now he has a GI infection+ Fungal infection causing skin/quill issues/constipation(not struggling as much to poop anymore but still struggling)/not wheeling/lowered appetite (though better than a month ago)

They need like a multivitamin for hedgehogs or something :x

Would also like to point out that this is the second time Quilly has started huffing like crazy just by hearing the vet's voice or his hands touching him. All done without Quilly actually seeing who it is. He was in his snuggle sack recovering from the anesthesia when he heard the vet's voice and went crazy again. Never known an animal besides maybe a dog to be scared/know who the vet is.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

Poor guy.  Don't blame him for being grumpy at the vet's, even if it isn't the poor vet's fault! Lily was always pretty grumpy at the vet's office with most of the vets too, and would try to hide by me. We got lucky though, and she really liked her main vet, and let him do things she wouldn't let ME do. I hope the meds start helping soon and get your poor boy healthy again! Sending lots of good thoughts to him.


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## hedgielover (Oct 30, 2008)

At least it sounds like after this he'll get better. Hopefully this will be the end of it. It's good news that those lumps were only ingrown quills and nothing more serious. At least that will heal up. He must be almost bald with all the quills he's loosing, poor guy. I'm guessing you must be sick of taking trips to the vet. I'm sick of it and I only had to go twice for two problems that had quick fixes.


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## shmurciakova (Sep 7, 2008)

Well, I'm glad they gassed him and got a good look at the skin. Geez! poor guy...to have one medicine cause the fungal attack! I hope all this stuff clears up soon. It sounds like you have a good vet though, so that is a plus, even if Quilly hates him!
Take care and keep us posted on Quillys progress...


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## jdlover90 (Jun 14, 2010)

*Update #100*

Well I had the light off and I tried forcing him on his wheel again for about 5 minutes while he tried to constantly get off of it. Watched him for a few minutes and then he stared in front of the wheel for a good 10 seconds then tried hopping on. He then sat there for a short while then preceded to walk slowly for about 20 seconds before stopping and getting off.

He then went to his food/water and repeated 3 times but only walking on the wheel slowly for about 3-8 seconds before getting off. Then he decided to sleep for a bit.

Then about 30 mins later I was putting his cage back together after washing it so I just put him on the floor with his food/water/wheel and let him walk in the closed room. He walked around for about 15 minutes until looking at the wheel and hopping on it. This was his 2nd longest walking time on the wheel, and first time he has wheeled with the light on since he was about 10 weeks old.

Got a vid of it quickly when he hopped on.






Sadly he didn't wheel at all in his cage the rest of the night/am. (At least no signs of it) Any way to try and get him to actually run again/use the wheel more frequently? Or does he have to build his leg strength up using the wheel for awhile first?

He also pooped pretty easily without straining much while in my lap/blanket trying to get off of me and his quill loss and skin flakes are getting better. Hopefully a good sign.


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## hedgielover (Oct 30, 2008)

He does look a little low energy to me.  poor thing. It's a good sign that he's starting to use his wheel a little, I'd say just observe how much he is using it but don't bug him to use it more. You could maybe set up an odometer so you know for sure how much he is running. If he's getting better but still not feeling great then he needs to start wheeling again at his own pace. I'm guessing when he gets his strength and energy back he'll be speeding around on the wheel without any encouragement from you.


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## Immortalia (Jan 24, 2009)

I know you probably don't want to read this but.... He seems to walk funny. Almost like a hump back, tucked in belly/butt look. 
Do you think you could get some more videos of him just walking. He just doesn't have that sleek, stretched out motion that most hogs have. 
Random example I found: 




At about 0:40 he stretches out into a more normal shape for a split second, almost like trying to stretch out his back, before going back to the tucked in butt look.

The course of actions I can see is to get some pain meds(to make sure the tucked in walk isn't from pain. A lot of animals tuck themselves in when they're in pain). Or you can try some xrays, to ensure his spine looks ok.

But, either way, may be something to bring up to the vet. May explain the lack of activity as well.

And *hides* I'm sorry for giving even more possible issues  
You just can't seem to be able to catch a break.


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## jdlover90 (Jun 14, 2010)

Update:

Well, in the past hour or so I'm guessing he scratched/bit his scab on his ear from the vet scrapping that puss/infection. It was bleeding pretty good but looks to have slowed down now. He is tucking his ear in a bit since the blood showed. Gets mad at me trying to touch his ear.

-*Can *I put peroxide with a Q-tip and rub it on the spot to help it heal? Regular neosporin?

Water intake has dropped and he is now peeing more frequently with smaller pee's. They usually have a darker yellow circle in the center of them too. After he pee's he usually 'sits down' a couple times before walking off. Sometimes more drops of pee are seen on the towels.

Food intake has slowed the past 3 days to barely eating. When he does eat he makes this weird noise like a big chomp/duck noise/food stuck on the top of his mouth....hard to describe. Will try to get a vid of that too.

Quill loss is still pretty high, about 15 a day. Mainly caused from giving him medicine. Starting to have more noticeable patches of no quills.

Around his ear/skin area he has some yellowish/orange crush attached to his skin. Its mainly just on the outer lining separating his fur and skin from the quills.

Overall less active the past 3 days as well. Mainly just sleeping then going to drink water then back to bed. Maybe 1 out of 5 trips to eat food briefly.

Last night he hadn't pooped unti I saw some poop sticking on his butt so I got a paper towel and pulled some of it out. Got it out but there was some red mucusy tinge to the 2nd part after the turd. He has more poop again stuck on his butt as shown in the pics. Besides pulling out the poop stuck yesterday, he hasn't pooped in 2 days. After I did that I tried giving him a lukewarm foot bath to help him poop but he didn't.

Also as you can see in the pics he just kind of lets me put him on his side and he didn't even try to move while I took the pic. Tried rolling over about 30 seconds after and had to be helped.

Got some Humilac spray in the mail today and sprayed him 2-3 times for his skin. Looks a lot better now.

Since the last update he has only hopped on the wheel once to walk for about 3 seconds then got off.

Trying to get a decent vid of him walking now.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

Man, I'm sorry for you guys.  It really sucks to have your hedgie be sick and not be able to fix it right away...

I would try putting some regular Neosporin on his ear - peroxide is too strong and just destroys tissue, good and bad. Are you syringe-feeding him at all? I'm guessing part of the no poops is from no food going in. I would get some baby food, or if you can get some Hills A/D canned food from a vet, and start syringing him. You can crush his kibble up really fine to mix in with the baby food to make sure he's getting enough nutrients. Either syringing option would help get some more water into him as well, but it might be a good idea to syringe him some extra water every time you feed him too. For food amount, it's best to feed him as much as you can get into him in a sitting, then feed again after that number of hours. So if you get 4 mL into him, then you'd feed again in 4 hours. You can adjust that a bit to work around your necessary schedule, but try to keep food in his stomach, and get some more water into him.

Also, if he's had a fungal infection on his skin, I'd be careful about applying anything to his skin - oils can seal in infection, and I'm not sure if Humilac would do the same.


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## jdlover90 (Jun 14, 2010)

He is also licking his lips while sleeping and walking sometimes. I guess the sound he makes is like smacking your lips.

Here is a brief walking video just taken. He is extremely lethargic the past few days. At one part int he video, you can see his back legs point in. He has been doing that since he got sick. He sometimes stumbles at times too before getting back up and walking.

Tried to get a shot of his ear too. Good shot of it at .25 secs. At around 1.10 is where he points his foot inward.

Last time he was on the bedroom floor he couldn't stop wandering around and he walked much faster.


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## jdlover90 (Jun 14, 2010)

Yeah, I haven't syringe fed him in a few weeks since he was eating better at the time. 

Any types of baby food that hedgies seem to like? I'll try and get that canned food at the vet. 

Do you think its ok to use the paper towel to pull out the dried poop in his butt? Feel bad doing it since it probably hurts him since its hardened on the outside. Probably stuck on fur too. 

i was planning on syringe feeding him that GNC high calorie booster gel like I have in the past. Not sure how much to give him, but I gave him about 2 mL last time. 

So basically crush his food and mix with baby food to put in a syringe for 4 mL every few hours? And also syringe him 2mL or so of water each time?

I'll put some regular neosporin on his ear and see how that goes. I hope the humilac doesn't trap in the fungal infection but he was having really dry skin, large sized skin flakes coming off and losing quills so I thought it was a good idea. 


Frustrated!


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

I don't have any experience with the Booster, but if that seemed to work for him before, I'm sure you could use that again too. For baby food, meat ones in general are pretty popular, as well as sweet potato and peas. I've read carrots seem to be popular too, but Lily never liked them. And yup! Just make sure you can crush it really fine, basically powder. It'll help it go through the syringe better. It's still a good idea to run the food through the syringe once, aiming into a bowl, just to make sure you don't hit a clog then give him a faceful of food! I'm not sure on how much water, but yeah, a mL or 2 would probably be good to aim for.

I'm not sure on the poop, really...Lily was having really nasty poops when she was sick, because she was on antibiotics. I had to wipe her bottom with paper towels because it got stuck to her fur and such. But I never had to pull any out...I'm not sure whether it'd be better to do that or leave it be, really. Hopefully if he gets more water in him, that'll help with the poop. Maybe a couple drops of flaxseed oil in the syringed food might help with that?

I wonder if the poop issues is why he walks with his hind end tucked in so much...I don't have much experience with sick babies past what I went through with Lily, so I'm not really sure. :/ Hang in there though...you're obviously doing your best for the little guy, and I'm sure he appreciates it. *hugs*


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## Immortalia (Jan 24, 2009)

Hmmm, I would have to agree with all that Kelsey has said so far about the syringe feeding. I don't have experience with the Booster stuff either, so use that at your discretion. I would also be tempted to add some oil into his food, if his poops seem to be very hard. Maybe give the vet a call and see what they say about it. But he does need to be syringed food and water so he has the nutrients. 

As for the dried poop, I'd get some vaseline and lightly rub some in on and around the poop that's stuck to help soften it. Keep doing it until you can gently remove it. That way, you don't have to get him wet when he's feeling sick, so no chance of him catching a chill. 

Depending on how hydrated he is, you may need to take him back to the vet for subQ fluids, and possibly some calorie fluids to help with both calorie and water.


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## jdlover90 (Jun 14, 2010)

Syringe fed him Squash baby food with powdery food mixed in last night and will do it again shortly. Didn't look like he touched his food at all last night besides drinking a few times. 

Put neosporin on his ear wound as well. 

Found him sleeping on his pee spot this afternoon. He had some poop smears throughout the cage towels but nothing substantial/turds.

The poop around his butt is pretty much tar-like goo right now after removing the solid part.

He is pretty aggressive trying to bite while being handled or picked up once again. 

Called the vet and have an appointment for tuesday at 1. Soonest they can get him in with the only hedgie vet -_-

so my game plan is to continue neosporin on his ear twice a day, syringe him water 2-4 times a day, syringe food/babyfood mix 2-3 times a day. And continue to monitor butt and poop.


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## hedgielover (Oct 30, 2008)

It sounds like you guys are having lots of troubles. It really sounds like he is in pain, sometimes they get more defensive and bite when they are hurting because it stresses them out and they feel more vulnerable. I hope you get this all figured out, if he's going to need medicine for a while before he gets better you could talk to the vet about some pain meds just to make him comfortable while he gets better. 

When my hedgehog, Quigley, got sick the vet recommended something called carnivore care, we had to buy it from the vet. It was a very high protein food in powder form that you mix with water to syringe. It worked really well and Quigley loved it. The vet said when they are sick they can use the higher protein. I don't know if it's available to you or if it would work for your hedgehog in his situation but since it's given with a ton of water I felt it kept my hedgehog more hydrated, it seemed to make him feel a little better too, he was terminally ill but he almost was back to his old self after the carnivore care.


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## jdlover90 (Jun 14, 2010)

I'll have to ask about that powder when I see the vet. 

Just got done stringing him food, water, and medicine. It seems his balance is really off today. His back legs curve almost 90 degrees in. He did kick his legs while flailing during stringing him. He sits on a side before laying down. Almost seems like his vision may be off too. You can put your finger in front of one side and he doesn't react to it half the time. 

Still has yet to poop. Hopefully the syringe feeding will help. 

He doesn't seem to control his bladder much. While feeding him in between he just started walking a couple inches and peed. Small circles compared to usual and then a couple spots in a trail.

Gave him 2 meal worms for the first time in awhile just to try and get him to eat. Took him forever to find them and he left half a meal worm before walking back and laying Down.

His belly is warm and the cage temp is 77.5-78.


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## Immortalia (Jan 24, 2009)

Carnivore care is definitely a great idea. Easy to syringe too.

I'm starting to wonder if it's a neurological problem. Have you had any xrays done? Possibly bloodwork? (I know, I'm sorry I'm suggesting even more costly things to do, and you are doing very well with things as is right now). Both of those may be something to think about. Even if there's a tech there who would like to brush up on their microscope skills, you can have them do a small pin prick and use that drop to blood to make a blood smear slide to look under the microscope. They can't tell much in the lines of chemistry levels and how well internal organs are working, but could see toxic changes, weird cells, anemia, etc etc. Just anything to give you clues to determine how much more you wish to check out.


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## jdlover90 (Jun 14, 2010)

The vet took x rays probably about a month ago and everything was fine. 

I'll have to bring up a blood test. 

Would all of this medicine in his system make his legs weak forcing him to turn them onward? Basically started as a GI infection with constipation , straining to poop, loss of appetite and no wheeling. Poop getting stuck in his butt. Tarry poop 80% of the time . He kept his legs tight against him then I guess from the pain and stomach ache. Then it went to that plus the fungal infection with adding the dry skin/ ear, more signs of legs walking inward and weak, peeing smaller and more frequently with dragging spots, and now lethargic, barely active, and aggressive. Developed a weird quacking sound too. At first, thought that was while eating getting food stuck but he does it when laying down/ sleeping too. He just kinda chomps his mouth and it makes the noise . Usually does it 2-4 times at a time. Still can't get it on video in time . 

Still has all of those signs at different levels throughout besides the pee and having his legs close to his belly. 

He has been on 4-5 different medicines I believe ( would have to read through this thread for exact amount )


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## jdlover90 (Jun 14, 2010)

Here's a video I just took of him 'eating'






At around 24 secs, 1:50, and 2:25 you can hear the weird noise I am talking about. I don't get what it could be, as he is able to eat the syringe stuff without making the noise. I don't see anything in his mouth unless there is something stuck in his throat, but wouldn't he not be able to eat the babyfood/cat food mix then?

I think he is trying to eat a little piece of kibble in the middle of the bowls. Throughout it looks like he is throwing it up at times when his head goes down and his back arch's. And he is just laying down trying to eat. At the end you can see how badly he is walking now.

Should I not give him the medicine today and just syringe food/water? Could the medicine be causing this?


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## jdlover90 (Jun 14, 2010)

Just got done syringe feeding him squash baby food with his food crushed. Syringed him water too. 

Tried cleaning up his butt and it is pretty much gooey tar. The opening of his butt was pretty big afterward with a little bit of fresh blood inside/around it. Went through about 7 towels trying to clean it up but its very tar-like and only smears when you try and grab it. 


Deciding not to give him that fungal medicine tonight on the oft chance that it is causing this/making it worse.


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

The video looks and sounds to me like he is getting kibble caught in the roof of his mouth or throat and then gagging to try and get it loose. 
Somewhere you mentioned a quacking sound but now I can't find the post. Was that when he was eating, or had been eating recently? Has the vet checked his mouth and felt around his throat for lumps or anything that might obstruct his swallowing? I'd either crush the kibble, dampen it with warm water so it's soft, or give him canned and see if that helps. 

He walks like he is sick. Their legs tend to turn in when they are sick and weak. 

The meds could be causing his tarry poop and for him not to feel well. What all meds is he on, or has been on in the past couple weeks? To help keep him clean, rub a tiny amount of vaseline around his bum. Only use a very small amount initially to see if he messes with it. Most of the hedgehogs I've used it on have been fine but there have been a couple who would start chewing. You can also try putting a tiny dab on a towel near his face and see if he is interested. Make certain he won't chew at it, before putting much on him. The vaseline will keep the poop from sticking to him so makes cleanup much easier. You don't need much. I have found it usually only needs to be used every other day. Warning, it is greasy and will stain bedding. 

Has the vet checked his urine to see if he has an infection and that is why he pees in frequent small amounts. 

It might be helpful if you could write out a timeline of symptoms and treatments in point form which might be easier to follow. 

Poor little guy. It is good to see that is he willingly eating on his own, even if not much.


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## jdlover90 (Jun 14, 2010)

Just got back from the vet. I'll try and update tonight with a timeline of everything.

The vet says he has a kidney infection, and that is causing a UTI, and the black poop/blood. He also had a large abscess on the top of his head on his left side of his 'visor' quills and going to his right side. He took a lot of that out. He ended up gassing him and injecting fluids into him because he was severely dehydrated. You could pick up an inch of flab of skin on his side with your fingers easily. The vet couldn't find anything stuck in his throat.

He prescribed *Baytril* at .2cc every 12 hours and to stop the old medicine. Gave him his first dose 30 mins ago.

Right now he is blown up from all of the water and walking and falling before sleeping. You can really tell his back legs are out of it, and he can't stand for long. He basically takes a step or two and falls over on his side before repeating.

I forgot to ask about the Carnivore Care and Hills A/d, i'll probably call tomorrow and see if I can get some. Also forgot to ask about a blood test 

In the meantime I'll continue syringe feeding him water and the baby food/catfood mix. I may also do a bowl of hard food, crushed dry food, and wet food to put in his cage.

The vet said that by the end of the week I should be able to tell how he is doing, and to come back in if he starts looking dehydrated for more fluids. He said it depends on how much of a fighter he is in terms of if he will get better, and if he doesn't, that he will likely have to be put to sleep.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

Poor guy...and poor you!  I'm glad you've got somewhat of an answer though, and something new to try. I'll keep fingers crossed and good thoughts headed your way that the meds help and he starts feeling better very soon. Keep us updated!


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## Immortalia (Jan 24, 2009)

Wish we could do more to help 

I'm in the midst of starting to study for my in-lab finals that are coming up, but if I have some time, I could look at some of the meds he's been on and see what sort of side effects there are. (though if you do have time and manage to condense the list into one spot, that would be awesome).


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## jdlover90 (Jun 14, 2010)

Sorry I haven't updated recently, but I've been bummed that he wasn't getting much better.

He passed away today at about 4:30 pm. The whole day he was extremely tired and sleeping and almost unresponsive save a few huffs. I snuggled with him against my armpit sleeping on his back for a couple hours which he seemed to like. Told him I loved him and talked to him and he just watched me. Then let him sleep on my chest for awhile. His tummy was kinda cold to the touch even though everything was warm. 

About an hour and a half later, I randomly felt the need to look at him through the cage and he rose his head and looked up at me for a couple seconds before he took his last breath and closed his eyes.  

I went over to try and see if he was breathing and pet him before his body reactions began to take over with his mouth/tongue and quills rising. 

just got back from the vet and took him to get cremated. 


It really sucks because I thought he was possibly going to get better. 3 days ago his poop was starting to turn green instead of black and he willingly drank water from his bowl (Though he had a hard time keeping his head from touching the water), and ate a few kibble next to him. And he was trying to walk around a little bit more. Then yesterday he started to show more signs of being sleepy and his poop went back to black and he would pee where he laid. 



Thanks for all of the advice everyone, i'm sure Quilly tried as hard as he could.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

Oh man, I'm so sorry....I was so hoping he was going to turn around for you.  I'm glad you got to say goodbye to him though...and he knows how much he was loved. RIP Quilly. *HUGS*


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

Oh no. I'm so sorry. You both tried your very best. Hugs


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## tigereyes319 (Nov 10, 2012)

I am sorry for your loss but now his pain is over. You did everything you could to save him. He knows he was loved but sometimes the struggle just becomes to much. At least he passed at home where he was comfortable and not in a sterile office. Think that is the hardest.


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## hedgielover (Oct 30, 2008)

So sorry, it's really hard when they seem to get better before they pass.


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## MomLady (Aug 14, 2010)

I am so sorry.

You did everything possible for your little one.

Hugs to you.

Donna


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