# Calcium:phosphorous ratio for Hedgies?



## LinzardB (Nov 20, 2008)

usually, one of the most important things in many balanced diets (aside from protien) is the calciumhosphorous ratio. 

In gliders, they need to have a lot of calcium because if they do not, they will develope hind leg paralysis which is a direct symptom of calcium definiciancy. Lizards, i believe, can have a similar reaction to too little calcium.

Guinea Pigs, on the other hand, have a different reason for balancing cah ratios. Guinea pigs need to have thier cah ratios monitored because they can get stones.. So need to not have as much calcium. 

So i was wondering.. with hedgies, do they get stones often? I know about Wobbly Hedgehog syndrome, but from what I had read, it is likely more of a genetic disorder and NOT caused by calcium deficiency. 

I guess in all, the best way to look at it would be what they eat in the wild.> Do hedgies it young baby birds, eggs, or anything like that in the wild? Or are they strictly insectivores. I would THINK that if they eat things lke pinkies and eggs, they would really NEED calcium in their diets..


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## LizardGirl (Aug 25, 2008)

I don't believe anyone has come up with a Ca for hedgies, as most herps/other animals have. There is little known about the dietary requirements of hedgies, as relatively new pets. If someone has more information I'd be interested.


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## LinzardB (Nov 20, 2008)

well, there HAS to be some information about what they feed in zoos, and what they used to come up with that.. PLUS, what they eat in the wild will have a lot of clues as to what it SHOULD be.


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## Melissa (Sep 19, 2008)

LinzardB said:


> well, there HAS to be some information about what they feed in zoos, and what they used to come up with that.. PLUS, what they eat in the wild will have a lot of clues as to what it SHOULD be.


You wont find our APH babies in the wild.. SO there is no way to tell what they would eat in the wild..

Why not look up in a zoo that has actual APH and ask what they feed and figure it out?


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## LinzardB (Nov 20, 2008)

hmm. well, i would appreciate it if ANYONE had any suggestions of zoos that do have african pygmy hedgehogs.. i had no idea that there were no APH in the wild.. what are they derived from?


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## Gnarly (Aug 29, 2008)

They are a cross between the white bellied hedgehog (atelerix albiventris) and the Algerian hedgehog (atelerix algirus)


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## LinzardB (Nov 20, 2008)

well, i will see what i can come up with.. Its something I have always been interested in.. pet nutrition. I was actually working on going to vet school for animal nutritionist - but that got seriously side tracked. My dad passed away suddenly and had a business that was supporting my mom, so i work there now.. but i LOVE to work on things like this.


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## Kalandra (Aug 25, 2008)

Dr Graffam presented at the Go Hog Wild in 1998 on hedgehog nutrition. At that time was that calcium and phosphorus suggested values are .9% for commercial diets of captive hedgehogs. Other than this presentation I haven't heard of any other work being published or presented that gave values for what we should give our hedgehogs.


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## LinzardB (Nov 20, 2008)

Thanks Kalandra, I will see if that guy is still doing research OR i will see if he has published his study.. having a name to go with will help me out a lot.. Better than just googling till my eyes are crossed.


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## Kalandra (Aug 25, 2008)

Oh you can probably still find the presentation notes on the web somewhere. They used to be posted on the go hog wild website, but that website has since disappeared. I happened to make myself a copy of them ages ago since things on the web have a tendency to disappear over time. You can probably also find a copy through archive.org.

The doctors' name was Wendy Graffam. And she was from the Bronx zoo. Her presentation contained some comparisons of the diet of wild and those in captivity. 

This information is 10 years old. If you find any more information about hedgehog nutrition that is more updated, please let me know where and what you find. Its an area that just doesn't get a lot of attention and we just do the best we can based on experiences over the years. Like when I first started out with hedgehogs I was told to feed high fat foods (kitten food), we learned that was wrong when FLD was a common problem (not so much now thankfully).


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## LinzardB (Nov 20, 2008)

i will DEFINITELY post here if i find anything more.. I'm sure that it if was publish on the net for all to see, that you guys would have found it by now, but I will make some calls and emails to people who work with them to see what they might have to say that is NOT published. 

The idea to contact zoos is GREAT, and its not a far trip to the Bronx Zoo.. I would love to go there again!

I have ALWAYS been so big into pet nutrition, i did lots of research with my dogs and cats, and even came up with my own system for feeding the sugar gliders that was probably the best option out there. I had a mixture of meat, cartiledge, fruits, veggies, and yogurt.. It was probably better than most of the diets out there, but i dare not say that because that community can be really freaky when it comes to diets.


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