# It's all about the money..



## rtc (Sep 5, 2008)

I cannot believe how sick people are...

http://montreal.kijiji.ca/c-pets-other- ... Z206667726

Just to translate... a little.. the breeder is offering the "leftovers" of his breeding to the highest bidder by advertising how many hogs the buyer can sell in a month...

Aren't there enough hedgies out there? I am still disgusted by how many people are selling their hedgies on Kijiji here in Montreal that were purchased from a breeder.

I wish people would respect hedgehogs more...

URGH!!!!

R.


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## Puffers315 (Apr 19, 2010)

> hello
> we are a breeding pigs for many years. We have a website that generates 3000-4000 hits per month with an excellent reference. We are looking for someone interested in a return to our website and our livestock. (Potential sales hérisseaux 15-20 per month)
> 
> We also have a pet shop that specializes in the hedgehog which will also close its doors. We sell all the accessories of the shop lot, with the displays and everything!
> ...


Here is the whole ad, and this is a prime example of people who don't deserve to live on this planet. This kind of stuff makes me sick to my stomach and makes me want to do something to the individual. I don't see his web address, otherwise I'd go buy his domain lease out from under him, or at least send some computer friends of mine to the web site to take it apart. I personally sent him a message and told him what I felt, I'm sure I'll get some stupid remark back from him.

This guy is probably the reason for all the rehomes in the Montreal area, and god knows what kind of condition he keeps them in, he's probably inbreeding them so there are genetic defects in the blood lines, god, all I'm going to say is he is lucky I don't have a passport, otherwise I'd be too tempted to go visit him personally. Not that any animal should be milled like this, but I find hedgehogs are on their own level of being a pet compared to rats, hamsters, gerbils, even ferrets. I'd call Hedgehogs "special needs" pets due to the heating and lighting requirements, socialization and so forth. This guy does nothing but spreads the plague in the name of money. I feel sorry for his hedgehogs, and for all those people who do not do the research, they just see a YouTube video and go "oh how cute, lets get one" and then are disappointed because they got a giant ball of hissing clicking meanness and don't know why, and then later wonders why they found their pet curled up in a ball dead in the 65 degree room. Sad.

I don't have too heavy of a religious belief, but Karma is something I do believe. In the end, his day will come, and he'll end up at the Rainbow Bridge with several hundred ticked off hedgehogs ready to tear him limb from limb.


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## nessariel (Mar 3, 2010)

This makes me want to cry. It also makes me want to rescue all of his poor hedgehogs. Wish I had the money.


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## Hedgieonboard (Nov 15, 2009)

That is very sad  He mentions that he has a speciality Hedgehog shop that sells all the accessories you would need for one but doesn't list any info to check it out. Not that I'd want any of his stuff I just wondered if the stuff he was selling was even the right stuff. I have a feeling I already know the answer anyways. It is very sad when someone treats an animal as a commodity.


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

Since you can read french rtc, maybe you could contact this person and as for the website address. I have a couple of ideas but not being able to read/speak french I can't tell for certain.


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## Hedgieonboard (Nov 15, 2009)

Sorry about taking so long to get back to this, I don't know how I missed it. I'll go ahead and write him in French and see if I can get any info on it. I'll get back with an update.


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## Hedgieonboard (Nov 15, 2009)

I wrote last night and got a reply with a name, address and an inventory of stock. Some of the stuff on the inventory is stuff not on the website. Im not sure if Im supposed to put the info on here so I'll pm with it just in case.


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## Sela (Apr 10, 2010)

Someone should arrange a raid. If I could get to Montreal, I'd definitely do something about this. (I couldn't actually read the ad, had to rely on Puffers' translation. I was never very good with French, couldn't get a grasp on it.) Those hedgehogs need to be rescued, the poor things are being treated like objects instead of living, breathing creatures.

Personally, I think this person should be dragged out back and shot, but not before being put through various unspeakable tortures.

I always feel sad hearing about things like this; those poor animals have done nothing wrong, and they're almost undoubtedly suffering. It makes me feel even worse knowing that while my hedgies are spoiled and loved with all my heart, these ones are just items to be sold, cash cows, if you will.


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

I just tried free translations and it appears as if this breeder is quitting and is trying to sell off everything and have someone take over their business.

This is what I got from free translations:



> bonjour
> we are an animal husbandry of hedgehogs for several years. We have a Website which generates 3000-4000 visits a month with a very good reference. We search somebody person concerned has take back our Website and our animal husbandry. (potential of sale of 15-20 hérisseaux a month)
> 
> We also have a boutique as animals of company specialized for hedgehog who will also close his doors. We sell all attachments of the boutique in lot, with display stands and everything!!
> ...


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## CoxMD (Apr 30, 2010)

Does anyone have SPCA ties in Montreal? If this guy is "farming" hedgehogs I doubt it's all up to code.


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

I don't think it translated properly when it said farm. These translating sites don't always translate the word its supposed to be.


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## CoxMD (Apr 30, 2010)

By farming I mean mass breeding.


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## rtc (Sep 5, 2008)

I think that if you're in the business of breeding for the right reason.. you should just allow your stock to stop breeding or sell them off individually. To sell the business as a bug money making mahcine is totally wrong in my mind...


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## rtc (Sep 5, 2008)

Nancy said:


> Since you can read french rtc, maybe you could contact this person and as for the website address. I have a couple of ideas but not being able to read/speak french I can't tell for certain.


I will attempt to find out.. if anyone has gotten the info. they could PM it directly to Nancy.

RtC


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## rtc (Sep 5, 2008)

Sela said:


> Someone should arrange a raid. If I could get to Montreal, I'd definitely do something about this. (I couldn't actually read the ad, had to rely on Puffers' translation. I was never very good with French, couldn't get a grasp on it.) Those hedgehogs need to be rescued, the poor things are being treated like objects instead of living, breathing creatures.
> 
> Personally, I think this person should be dragged out back and shot, but not before being put through various unspeakable tortures.
> 
> I always feel sad hearing about things like this; those poor animals have done nothing wrong, and they're almost undoubtedly suffering. It makes me feel even worse knowing that while my hedgies are spoiled and loved with all my heart, these ones are just items to be sold, cash cows, if you will.


It is very possible that the animals are being well treated. I just don't think that one should market the business as being a money making machine.. I would gladly buy the business if I had the space but I don't see that this ad will get the "right" person involved...

Quebec is the capital of puppy mills I believe in Canada...

RtC


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

rtc said:


> Quebec is the capital of puppy mills I believe in Canada...
> 
> RtC


I think you're right and I think they are the capital of uncaring hedgehog breeders as well.


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## shaelikestaquitos (Feb 2, 2010)

Hey guys, I live in Montreal.

Puppy mills and other animal mills are a HUGE problem here, there are petitions every summer to stop them... so far with no success.
It also does not help that we have the loosest animal cruelty laws in all of Canada, so a lot of "breeders" get away with a lot.
Arranging a raid would be very difficult here, because the Montreal SPCA has been accused of fraud and other such things. In short, not only are their awful breeders, but there are also awful shelters here too.

I volunteer for a no-kill, nonprofit animal shelter here, and they're in debt because people around here don't care enough to support the independent animal shelters.

I could try arranging something, but I highly doubt it will be of any success.

I was thinking of starting a hedgehog rescue organization here, so if anyone in Montreal is interested, please contact me!


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## LizardGirl (Aug 25, 2008)

> Arranging a raid would be very difficult here...


I don't think a raid would ever be a good idea. Usually it is animal rights groups who go and do things like that, and end up releasing a bunch of animals into the wild where they can go die a cold miserable death or be eaten by something else. To think that hedgie people (or anyone who supports keeping animals) might be associated with something like that wouldn't look too great, IMO. But I am very against animal rights, I swear I dislike them as much as the people actually abusing animals. Anyone who supports owning hedgies should be for animal welfare and not animal rights.


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

LizardGirl said:


> > Arranging a raid would be very difficult here...
> 
> 
> I don't think a raid would ever be a good idea. Usually it is animal rights groups who go and do things like that, and end up releasing a bunch of animals into the wild where they can go die a cold miserable death or be eaten by something else. To think that hedgie people (or anyone who supports keeping animals) might be associated with something like that wouldn't look too great, IMO. But I am very against animal rights, I swear I dislike them as much as the people actually abusing animals. Anyone who supports owning hedgies should be for animal welfare and not animal rights.


I think in many instances a raid is exactly what is needed. The Global Exotics seizure is a prime example. If animals are being abused or neglected then they need to be gotten out of the situation. It's unfortunate that one fanatical group in particular makes legitimate animal rescue groups look bad but even that fanatical group does do good on occasion, the Global Exotics seizure again is a prime example of a fanatical group exposing severe neglect and cruelty.

I'm all for animal rights. Animals deserve the same rights as humans and children. They should be treated with respect and cared for the same as children should be cared for. The penalties for abuse and neglect should be no different than for children. Right now, animals don't have many more rights than your toaster or table and some animal rights groups are working to try and change the legal status of animals.

As for raiding the breeding business under discussion here, there really isn't any grounds to do so. Whether we like it or agree with it, people who breed animals do have a right to sell their business and as long as the animals are not being neglected or mistreated, there really isn't anything we can do about it. We don't know the circumstances for her selling and while selling off her hedgehogs sounds cold and heartless, perhaps something has come up in her life that she has no choice and is no longer able to even care for them. Selling 15-20 babies per month, she must have a huge herd of hedgehogs.

shaelikestaquitos becoming a rescue in Montreal would be a great. I suggest you join the Hedgehog Welfare Society and become approved to be a HWS rescue contact. You could do so also with the IHA. Quebec has no approved hedgehog rescues and there are a lot of hedgehogs needing homes. Rescuing can become expensive and vet bills high. You also need to have a separate room to quarantine any newcomers.

What is the name of the shelter you volunteer at? Do they take in hedgies?


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## Kalandra (Aug 25, 2008)

If you are interested in becoming an IHA rescue, contact Teresa Johnson (Rescue Coordinator) at [email protected]. I'm certain she would love to hear from interested people.


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## LizardGirl (Aug 25, 2008)

Animal rights advocates are against keeping all exotics and in some cases against keeping domestics as well. I'm not sure who all here is aware about what goes on behind places like PETA and the HSUS. Their ultimate goal is to end pet ownership. I know I don't want that.


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## Hedgieonboard (Nov 15, 2009)

I think raids are a very useful tool. I can not speak for other areas of the US but where I am from the ASPCA in combination with the Sheriffs Department are in charge of raids not PETA. I know many rescues that believe in animal rights but have no affliation with PETA. I am all for animal rights and think that animals need to be treated with respect and cared for properly or they should be taken away.


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## LizardGirl (Aug 25, 2008)

> I am all for animal rights and think that animals need to be treated with respect and cared for properly or they should be taken away.


Yes, animals do need to be treated with respect and cared for properly, that is animal *welfare*. It's about taking care of them responsibly. Animal rights, though, is more of a political campaign to "free animals from the cruel clutches of mankind" and "stop the suffering because every animal in captivity wishes it was free" kind of dramatic, (stupid) things. Animal rights advocates get millions upon millions of dollars donated to them by people thinking the money is going towards helping homeless animals and ones in need, when in reality very very little actually does. It all goes into their lawsuits. While yes, it's good that they are preventing cruelty in the meat market and exposing pet cruelty, really, who at the bottom line doing good is the local shelters and volunteers who take the animals after the seizure. For example the Global Exotics raid. I would bet all I have that if PETA had gotten a hold of the animals afterwards, they would have killed the majority of them because they were "suffering because they were in captivity". But since the SPCA took them in and later released them to good rescue groups, it turned out okay. Would raids be a good thing if every time, the animals were put down? It might put some out of their misery but it isn't solving all the problems.

The Humane Society of the United States has attempted, and in some cases succeeded in passing legislature to prevent exotic ownership. Below are two of their articles against exotics, and while they are geared more towards "high maintenance" exotics, they do apply to hedgehogs, sugar gliders, etc. They believe that non-domestic animals have no place in our homes and should be released or euthanized to end both "human and the animal's suffering". Because apparently our hedgehogs are suffering and dying to be free, under our care.

http://www.humanesociety.org/issues/exo ... xotic.html

http://www.humanesociety.org/issues/exotic_pets/facts/

Here is an article about how PETA kills almost all the animals they take in- even adoptable dogs and cats.

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/petas-pet-slaughterhouse/

And finally, here's a website I really like which points out some of the incredible wrongdoings of the people behind animal rights:

http://humanewatch.org/

Animal welfare is responsible ownership of exotics. Animal rights is against ownership of exotics. I would not usually go on a rant like this, but I used to support animal rights too until I realized how they really are, and what horrible things they are capable of doing. I am very passionate about the proper care of exotics (not just hedgehogs) and I think they are a huge part of many people's lives, and are not suffering in captivity. I mean some wild caught animals do not deserve to be forced to convert to a indoor lifestyle, but that's again responsible ownership. When kept responsibly there's no problem. Animal rights apparently can't see that.

(this isn't directed at anyone in particular, I just wish some people knew what they were supporting)


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## Sela (Apr 10, 2010)

I've read all about PETA's BS and I absolutely can't support them. In fact, I wish someone would shut them down. As far as I can tell, they've never done anything to actually HELP animals. Hypocrisy is one of my biggest pet peeves (if you'll pardon the pun) and that organization is BUILT on hypocrisy. I'll give my money and time to the SPCA, thank you very much.


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## Hedgieonboard (Nov 15, 2009)

I won't get into a debate on using the terms animal rights or animal welfare. I don't see how using the words I believe in animal rights jumps to other extremist groups and their agenda.

I read the Humane Society article and don't see at all where it is saying non domesticated animals have no place in our homes. What I got out of it is they are trying to discourage every person that might think its a cool idea to think twice and warning against the dangers that some animals may have on the ecosytem. This is a very real problem. Im in Louisiana and one of the biggest things I can think of that makes this true is people who weren't ready to take care of a snake after it gets huge and decides to release it into the wild where it thrives and starts killing off our native animals and posing dangers to people.

The debate seems to be heavily tied with PETA but Im not sure why this is as they are an extremist group not an authority. If I seen an animal treated poorly and turned it in, it would be the ASPCA or local humane society, not PETA that would be awarded custody by a judge. PETA has extremist views in my opinion and many others' opinions but they are not an authority here and have no power outside of the propaganda they release. I would not base a decision to turn in a place for a raid based on PETA's antics because they would not be awarded their custody.

Even in the ASPCA or Humane Society was to have secret motives on exotic pet ownership it does not make it the law. I won't ever turn my back on an animal in need based on "what ifs" or hypotheticals.



> I don't think a raid would ever be a good idea. Usually it is animal rights groups who go and do things like that, and end up releasing a bunch of animals into the wild where they can go die a cold miserable death or be eaten by something else. To think that hedgie people (or anyone who supports keeping animals) might be associated with something like that wouldn't look too great, IMO.


I think this statement is a very far stretch and not sure why it wouldn't look good for a hedgie person to be in support of raiding where animals are not being treated well. None of the articles presented had anything to do with hedgehogs and the statement of animal right groups does not seem to represent the majority, just a small extremist percent.


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## shaelikestaquitos (Feb 2, 2010)

Nancy said:


> LizardGirl said:
> 
> 
> > > Arranging a raid would be very difficult here...
> ...


Hi Nancy,
I don't actually have the space to rescue hedgehogs myself, but I wanted to start a rescue with foster homes across the island (much like other independent animal rescues here). I would probably be able to house one or two other hedgehogs where I live.
The shelter I work at is the Animal Rescue Network, they deal with dogs and cats, (dogs go into foster, as do kittens, but most adoptable cats live in a rented space in Rosemont). I could launch this idea to them, but I'm pretty sure no one there is experienced with exotic pets.
I could probably get some places such as the Naturalanimal Pawtisserie to hold adoption days, etc for free (I live literally 2 blocks away from there), because they already hold adoption days for other independent rescues.
As for veterinary connections, I'm afraid I have none, but I'm sure the Naturalanimal Pawtisserie probably has some veterinary clinics willing to help out.


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## shaelikestaquitos (Feb 2, 2010)

Sela said:


> I've read all about PETA's BS and I absolutely can't support them. In fact, I wish someone would shut them down. As far as I can tell, they've never done anything to actually HELP animals. Hypocrisy is one of my biggest pet peeves (if you'll pardon the pun) and that organization is BUILT on hypocrisy. I'll give my money and time to the SPCA, thank you very much.


There was a thing that leaked on the internet of how many animals PETA "rescued" but failed to "rehome" and as a result had to put down.
It really angered me.



LizardGirl said:


> > Arranging a raid would be very difficult here...
> 
> 
> I don't think a raid would ever be a good idea. Usually it is animal rights groups who go and do things like that, and end up releasing a bunch of animals into the wild where they can go die a cold miserable death or be eaten by something else. To think that hedgie people (or anyone who supports keeping animals) might be associated with something like that wouldn't look too great, IMO. But I am very against animal rights, I swear I dislike them as much as the people actually abusing animals. Anyone who supports owning hedgies should be for animal welfare and not animal rights.


LG,
I meant a raid as in stop this guy from "farming" hedgehogs like this and rehome them, not set them free :lol:
But yes, I don't think there are any grounds for a raid, or for any action to be taken against him at this moment.


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## LizardGirl (Aug 25, 2008)

> LG,
> I meant a raid as in stop this guy from "farming" hedgehogs like this and rehome them, not set them free
> But yes, I don't think there are any grounds for a raid, or for any action to be taken against him at this moment.


Haha, yes, I got that. :lol: It's just usually when someone hears the term "raid" they think of people going in and taking animals away, or releasing them. There have been problems associated with people doing that here in the US at least, and I just wouldn't want people to think that hedgehog people were going around and releasing hedgies in the wild if they heard something about a "raid".


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## LizardGirl (Aug 25, 2008)

> I don't see how using the words I believe in animal rights jumps to other extremist groups and their agenda.


I was just quoting you to give an example of how what a lot of people believe about what animals deserve doesn't necessarily promote animal rights, rather than animal welfare.

As you said above, you weren't necessarily implying you supported PETA, the HSUS, etc. What I am trying to say is that by supporting animal rights you are supporting these awful "organizations".



> I read the Humane Society article and don't see at all where it is saying non domesticated animals have no place in our homes.


While they may not say it directly you can see it implied in other articles as well as some of their campaigns, where they urge people not to keep "untraditional" animals. There was one email I got from them, back when I was subscribed, that did mention that hedgehogs, sugar gliders, ground hogs (and other animals, it was a long list) should not be kept as it was cruel to these wild animals and they pose a threat to our ecosystem. I can understand the ecosystem part, especially with large snakes when released, and with more destructive animals, but most of the small exotics kept aren't even dangerous in the least. They still try and encourage people not to own them, though. :roll:


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## nessariel (Mar 3, 2010)

Something that has become a big issue in recent years is people trying to keep pets that were never meant to be pets. I remember watching a news piece on a wildlife education centre that had ended up as a home for unwanted "exotic" pets - and I'm not talking hedgies or chinchillas. There was a 3 foot long alligator someone had tried to keep in a bath tub, a chimpanzee that the owner had ended up losing control of, a few other monkeys, a fenec fox, some kinkajoos... All who had to be surrendered to this overcrowded wildlife centre because they had been bought because they were "So cute!" and then had been too much to handle very quickly. This sort of "exotic" ownership can, and should, be prevented. It's when the definition of "wild animal" starts to get a little muddled that problems occur. I think if Winston ever tried to live in the wild, he wouldn't last very long. He'd sit there for a while, run around LOVING being able to go anywhere he wanted, then start to get a little worried come supper time when he couldn't find his dish full of cat food...

The hedgies in this post certainly seem to need rescuing, though... Does anyone have the url for the guy's website? I can't really tell, because google translator sometimes makes things a little muddled, but is he selling off his hogs individually, or just as a whole along with the business?


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## Puffers315 (Apr 19, 2010)

It was about five or six years ago (maybe even more now) that PETA applied for a tax break of some sort for a 10,000 dollar addition to the PETA Headquarters. This addition was a walk in freezer for the animal bodies. Peta has also been loosely connected to home terrorist groups aka anti-government type groups like Idaho's Ruby Ridge. And there's just a whole list of other things they do, like approach school children with booklets that tell them how their parents lie and kill animals, search google, maybe some of it is insane and just lies, but look at the group itself, they tried to rename 'fish' to something like water kitties to get people to stop fishing and eating them.

The Humane Society links I didn't really see anything about general domesticated exotic pets like Hedgehogs and Ferrets, seemed to be more aimed again certain animals that could upset the ecosystem, prime example is the Python down in Florida who now rules the Everglades. If they're going to make a list, some exotics really shouldn't be listed in there, due to the fact that they could not survive in the wild.

African Pygmy Hedgehogs would be one due to the climate around the United States, is there anywhere they could survive, I mean even places like Florida and such can have drastic drops in temps which would send them into hibernation. Ferrets too, you get stupid politicians like the ones in NYC who say "well they will get loose, create a colony and overrun the city" when in fact a ferret has been domesticated since the time of the Romans and cannot survive at all in the wild.

My 'animals rights' various, cause well, I love beef, pork and chicken, they're just too tasty. But I am totally against the mills that produce these products, 20 chickens to a cage and feeding the cows hormones and ground up chunks of other cows, that crap is just wrong. Give me all natural meats.


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## Keltrey (May 31, 2010)

Puffers315 said:


> Peta has also been loosely connected to home terrorist groups aka anti-government type groups like Idaho's Ruby Ridge.


If I remember correctly they have had connections to the A.L.F (Animal Liberation Front).
http://www.associatedcontent.com/articl ... petas.html

A lot of teenagers and young adults get sucked in by these groups and pretty well brainwashed into believing that they are helping the poor animals. It really disturbs me that they are allowed to continue their operations while behind the scenes they are basically funding domestic terrorism. I am all for the proper treatment of livestock and that they should be slaughtered in the most humane way, however these groups are not living up to their own mission statements.

As for mills and mass breeders that treat their animals like money in the bag and not intelligent beings that should be taken care of, they make me sick. I was stationed in South Korean in 2003 and every morning for Physical Training we would run along the wire of our camp and on the other side was a dog farm. It was terrible seeing dogs being treated like that, they were overcrowded and living in sub-standard conditions. The worst part about it was they were being raised for food at that farm by my understanding, which is even more disturbing considering that environment was the perfect breeding ground for disease and parasites. I am extremely glad Global Exotics got taken down and that some of those animals have been able to be saved and are now in good homes. I just hope that more of these places get busted and that anyone who thinks of running a business like that gets the message loud and clear that they will face the consequences if they choose to do it.

I am sorry my first post had to be such a long one on a topic like this, but it just gets my blood boiling when I hear anything about PETA or the mistreatment of animals.


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

Not all animal rights groups are fanatical with the agenda of Peta. Sure there are others but they all can't be lumped into the same category. 

There are groups working for the protection of animals and sometimes protecting these animals means there needs to be laws prohibiting ownership. Who needs to own an alligator anyways. Sure as a tiny baby it might be a unique pet but seriously, what does someone do with an 3' + long alligator. Often they get released or a rescue ends up with it. I'm using an alligator as an example but there are many other species large and small that are not and never will be suitable as a household pet. For the protection of the animal, it's owners and the public in general if it ever escapes, these animals need to be banned from ownership. Unfortunately often when there is a law made against ownership of exotic animals, our hedgehogs, chinchillas and even ferrets get lumped into the same exotic category as alligators. 

In many areas there is no law at all against owning exotic species and many/most of these animals are caught from the wild to be sold as pets. This is wrong in so many ways. Not only are many of these species unsuitable to be pets in the first place, many will not survive being kept in captivity. Because they are wild, they are often dangerous and the people buying them often have no clue how to care for, control, or suitably cage these animals. Ultimately, it is the animal that looses and sometimes even their human owner. 

I firmly and strongly believe that any animal, bird, fish, reptile that can't be easily bred and raised in captivity should not be allowed to be owned. Taking them from the wild is cruel and usually harmful to the animal and there should be strong laws against it. 

For many that can be captive bred, it doesn't mean they should be simply because they are unsuitable as a pet.

Our hedgehogs and chinchillas do get lumped in with exotic bans but sometimes that can end up being a good thing. For example. The city of Ottawa has an exotics ban and hedgehogs are one of the animals that are not allowed to be owned, sold or bred in Ottawa. They are lumped right in there with alligators and big snakes. Even though they are technically illegal to own, there are many hedgehogs in Ottawa and there is no worry of ever being fined or having the hedgehog confiscated as long as it is properly cared for. Where this law is beneficial to hedgehogs is, if there is abuse or neglect, then hedgehog can immediately be seized because they are illegal. It's a much more simple process than having to prove abuse or neglect and ends up giving police or the humane society more authority to help the hedgehog. 

Many of these animal rights groups want legislation passed for the ethical and humane treatment of food animals as well as the animals we have as pets. Having legislation in place gives authorities more power to act when it comes to abusive, inhumane and neglectful situations. It's not that they want to ban all pet ownership, they want regulations on certain species for the welfare of the animal as well as the humans. 

This is where common sense needs to be used. Lumping all exotics together simply is not sensible and laws need to be made for each animal, not exotics as a whole. 

No, I do not agree with fanatical groups like Peta and in most cases they do more harm than good. They do sucker people in but usually those are the people who just want to help animals and don't do any research into the organization. Peta did do good in gathering evidence and exposing Global Exotics but had they gotten control of the animals, they would have been no better off, probably worse. This is where the system worked. Peta may have brought the neglect public but laws and legislation worked and these animals were placed with organizations that have proven they are working for the benefit and Welfare of the animals. 

I'm all for animal rights and legitimate animal rights groups who are working for the benefit of the animals. There are lots of them out there. They are not all in league with Peta.


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## LizardGirl (Aug 25, 2008)

I guess I disagree about that then. I do not think the other exotics should be banned. Animals like short tailed oppossums, fennec foxes, servals, kinkajous, etc. are some that people are quick to say that are abused, neglected, and hardly ever well cared for. Yes, there are always bad owners. But there are great communities in place for all these animals, just like with hedgehogs or chinchillas or sugar gliders, filled with people educating new owners about the must up to date care and behavior tips. I know so many people who take wonderful care of their dangerous reptiles or higher maintenance exotics and have great bonds with them, and no problems in captivity. I also know how horrible it would be to them if these animals were banned. I have no problem with requiring permits, but outright banning I think is wrong.


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