# How to get her to eat?!



## DesireeM81 (Jun 14, 2014)

Okay guys. I have had River for almost three weeks. About two weeks ago I had to start syringe feeding her. She eats anything I put in a syringe. I was using A/D but I ran out and my petsmart in town doesn't carry prescription food so I've been using another prescription cat food my mom had on hand. She eats that just fine. When I pick her up in the morning to feed her she starts smacking her lips and is eagerly hungry. Same thing during her other two feedings. I can typically get about 14 ml in her a day. She stops eating when she's full so I stop feeding her. I have been supplementing this diet with plenty of bugs including crickets, mealworms, roaches, hornworms, superworms and a pinkie mouse once a week. 

I bought a home security camera to watch and see if she eats. Rose is eating fine and putting on weight even though I don't want her too. River though will sometimes eat the raw food I leave for them and touch a little bit of the wet food I give them. River will not touch the kibble at all. Rose eats a few pieces at night. Rivers weight is pretty consistent. She bounces between 455 and 470ish. Her lowest weight was 445grams when I put in their new CSWs. 

My question is should I stop syringe feeding her and see if she starts eating on her own? Is it okay if she doesn't eat for a day to see if she will eat her food? If she doesn't eat the first night should I not feed her till the second morning? I don't mind syringe feeding her and my sister helps out when I'm not home to be able to feed her but I would feel so much better if she would just eat on her own. I have already tried mixing some kibble with the A/D and putting that in a bowl but only Rose ate it. They are given the option to eat kibble, the food they were on before I got them and my own mixture, a tablespoon of wet food and a medallion of beef raw instinct. Plus whatever bugs are on the menu for the night. 

Any advice or answers to my questions are welcome. I am willing to try anything for this little girl. 

Oh and vet visit was normal, healthy and she said it was probably just stress which is what I figured.


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## Melanie G. (May 29, 2014)

That's a tough one- if I remember correctly, River and Rose get more stressed when you try to separate them (which is adorable, although not helpful when it comes to food). 
I would say to keep trying the mix of A/D and kibble, but that isn't going to be helpful if Rose is just going to eat it. 
Have you tried taking River out to be fed and offering her the mix of A/D and kibble? Obviously she is hungry then. Or maybe taking her out for play time when you would normal syringe feed her and place the food in there?
The only other thing I can think of is that she may have problems with her teeth. Did the vet get a good look to see if any of her teeth are loose or sore?


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## DesireeM81 (Jun 14, 2014)

I can try to offer her kibble during play/bonding time since she associates that with food. I haven't tried that yet. 

Unfortunately River is only comfortable with me to uncurl. There was no way the vet was getting to her teeth. But when I syringe feed her she opens her mouth bites and chews and her teeth look fine to me. Actually she has perfectly symmetrical teeth that look very clean and white. 

As of right now I don't think separating them is an option. They seem to be truly boned and antsy when the other isn't around for a long time. River is the only one who went to the vet since Rose is eating and had her check up before heading on the plane and Rose did not like being alone. She slept really poorly for a the couple hours we were gone. My vet is an hour away so she was alone for about three hours and my fiancé says she was running around the cage every few minutes.


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## Melanie G. (May 29, 2014)

I wonder if maybe her teeth are loose and that is making it difficult to eat hard kibble. Have you tried crushing the kibble? Maybe crushing it and mixing it with A/D to give to her during play time?


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## sweetergrrrl (May 5, 2009)

I used some of the Kitten NutriCal from Petco. It is a vitamin supplement and works a lot as an appetite stimulant as well.


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## DesireeM81 (Jun 14, 2014)

I'll try crushing her food tonight and see if that's the problem. I'll also offer her it at play time tonight. She has some issue with bigger food too that the little guys don't seem to have a problem with. I just always worry about her. If the crushing of food doesn't help I'll try the kitten nutrical but I can't feed it to her in her cage since she is with her "sister" Rose and Rose is a little overweight.


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## DesireeM81 (Jun 14, 2014)

Okay. Something has to be wrong with her teeth or she hates all four kinds of kibble. I took her out this afternoon for some cuddle time while I studied and she started licking her lips. I had already fed her this morning so I tried to trick her and feed her kibble. She smelled it and put it in her mouth and promptly spit it out. :roll: I tried all the different kinds but she didn't give them the chance. She just smelled them and turned her head. I gave her some mealworms which she promptly ate and then she fell asleep in my lap. She ate a pinkie mouse last night as well after I held it for her so she could get it started. 

Does anybody have a good way to check her teeth? I tried to get in there and while she didn't ball up I could not get her mouth open. 

Also she won't eat early in the morning either. I leave for school around 730 and I try to feed her at 630-7 and she wasn't having it. Do you think that means she is actually eating enough that I don't need to feed her anymore? My sister will come over and feed her on that day if I need her too.


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## Melanie G. (May 29, 2014)

Molly had dental problems. She was really cooperative at the vet's office.
Molly used to get food stuck on the top of her mouth and would start gagging and I would have to remove it for her.
I don't know how to tell if her teeth are loose, but you can check her gums (if she will let you). With Molly I would hold her like I was going to feed her and when she opened her mouth I would get a Q-tip in there so she couldn't close her mouth. You can try that and see if her gums are swollen or if she is missing any teeth.


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## DesireeM81 (Jun 14, 2014)

Did you just feed Molly wet food or did she still try to eat kibble?


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## Melanie G. (May 29, 2014)

Once she started getting the kibble stuck on the roof of her mouth, I had to remove the kibble as I didn't want her to choke while I was sleeping. I believe I gave her A/D and baby food at that time. I also tried soaking her kibble and then crushing it, but she wasn't as interested in that. She also went downhill quickly after that- it wasn't related to her dental issues, she had a tumour or a lesion in her brain (among many other medical issues). So there were a lot of changes I had to make for her around that time.
At that point I was just trying to keep her as healthy as I could. So I'm not sure what long-term implications there may be in feeding a hedgehog that way. I only did it for a short period of time.


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## DesireeM81 (Jun 14, 2014)

Okay thank you!

Is it okay to continue to feed her the a/d? The protein and fat is extremely high for a food to feed her at all times. But with using another food, I have to water it down just to get it out of the syringe and I feel like she getting more water than food so very little nutrition. The protein for the a/d is at 40% DMB and fat is at a whopping 30%!!!

I just bought six cans of it too. :roll: Is there another decent wet food that I can also use for her that is similar in consistency to a/d??


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## Katten (May 10, 2014)

When I first got Tinkerball, she was really sick, and she wouldn't eat either. It turned out that she had coccidia, which must have been giving her a stomach ache. Once that was cured, she only ate wet food too, and I thought she had a dental problem, but eventually she started eating the kibble. I almost wonder if she developed a taste for the wet food, which is what I had been syringe feeding her with, and just wasn't willing to bother with the kibble. 

You might want to try feeding Rose outside of the cage, that way she's nice and full and less likely to eat all of River's food. 

Another thing I did with Tinkerball is randomly leave pieces of kibble around her play area when I took her out. Sometimes she'd get curious and try one... I guess random pieces of food on my kitchen floor are more interesting than food in a dish.


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## Melanie G. (May 29, 2014)

I'm not sure about A/D for the long-term. With Molly it wasn't a concern as I knew she wouldn't make it much longer.
I wonder if wet cat food would work? Baby food worked well and I didn't have to water it down very much, but again, I don't know about that for the long-term either.


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## phoenix1964 (Jan 23, 2014)

we had to syringe Penny when she wasn't well. I never did get her back on kibble at all. She eats wet cat food with some chicken baby food dolloped over the top. Some days she will eat a cricket but not always, and forget worms! She doesn't eat in the morning either. Do your girls have separate food bowls? Could one be dominating over the food bowl or bowls? Have you ever seen them fight over food?
I am wondering if she is too timid or scared to eat her food when in the cage with her sister.
Have you tried separate cages that are in the same area?
Since the vet couldn't get a good look at her mouth you may need to consider giving her a whiff of gas to get her to relax.
If you really don't mind syringe feeding her and you have good reliable help for when you are away it may be in both your best interests to continue this way, although try to rule out everything you can.
Good luck to you


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## DesireeM81 (Jun 14, 2014)

Rose is a private eater. She won't eat anything if we are nearby unless it's a bug. When we give her the pinky mice she crawls under the fleece to hide and eat. 

I'm going to try and take River out tonight and give her some of the raw food. I'm worried she's not getting everything she needs with just the raw food, bugs and a/d.

I've tried two different wet cat foods, they just aren't liquidy enough without watering them down. 

Katten, River isn't even touching the wet food in the cage anymore. Just the raw food and even then it's probably about a teaspoon worth. She chomps down on some insects though which is nice. 

Phoenix1964, it is possible Rose is bullying River. I was watching River eat some raw food last night and Rose came over and River sort of just move out of the way. It is very possible she is being bullied. They have never fought. They have four different bowls in their cage with four different offerings. I will combine the two foods that normally get eaten and put them in two different bowls so maybe that will help. Although they eat (or Rose does) out of whichever bowl tickles her fancy. 

I have tried separating the girls before but it didn't end to well. I'm afraid to do anything more drastic in case they decide to try and escape to find each other and hurt themselves. Or do something like stop eating altogether. When we separated them after River still refused to eat on her own, I put up a shelf in the middle of their cage so they could still hear, smell and see each other. Rose either climbed over the barrier or scooted underneath it or something but she was sleeping with River when I work up. I do have another cage that I can put one of them in temporarily but I think that would cause a lot stress. I'm trying to not change too much on them anymore since they had a very stressful month already. 

While I can definitely continue in this fashion for a while I do have family that lives out of town that I would like to see every now and then and I do not have someone that can feed her everyday unless I hire a house/pet sitter. I would really like her to eat on her own if she can. So I am going to try everything in my power.


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## phoenix1964 (Jan 23, 2014)

Well it sounds like you have tried everything. Perhaps if you try and feed her whatever it is you would put into the syringe into a bowl and feed her during snuggle time when you would normally syringe feed her. If she will eat from a bowl when she is alone you maybe onto something. If that doesn't work then perhaps another vet visit would be in order with a wee bit of gas to get her to uncurl for a good exam.
I know how frustrating this can be but I think you are doing everything you can.


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## CoffeeKat (Jan 15, 2014)

Wish I could offer some words of wisdom, but I'm following with interest because of our own food issues. Since she likes pinkie mice, have you tried commercial raw, such as Instinct or Primal? I don't think she could chew up pinkie mice if she had problems with her teeth. Perhaps she just doesn't like kibble now that she knows there are options?


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## DesireeM81 (Jun 14, 2014)

Yep all my hedgies are on Nature's Variety Instinct Raw Beef. They all really like it and it's the one thing that she will eat that I don't have to feed to her. Even though it's a small amount. She is definitely interested right when she wakes up but then she just nibbles throughout the night. I would venture she eats about a teaspoon of it. 

I thought the same thing about the pinkie mouse too.

:roll: She ate her a/d like a champ tonight through her syringe. I think I'm going to try and find some weight control liquidy cat food to mix with her a/d. Another food adventure...


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## DesireeM81 (Jun 14, 2014)

*Update and a weird question.*

Okay so I finally separated the girls. Part of the reason the decision was delayed was the fear that either would hurt themselves trying to get the other and that I did not want to change to much on them after only a month and cause more stress. The catalyst was River whose weight was steady dropped 20+ grams in a night and I was not okay with that. I split their 2x5 cage in half and put up as much coroplast as I could to make sure they can't get to each other. Besides Rose's apparent boredom and mouth sores everyone seems to be handling it well. Except that River still isn't eating.

Last night I left out two kinds of kibble, her old food from the breeder, some Blue Buffalo, some baby food (a fruit mix with oatmeal), some of her a/d and Nature's Variety Raw Beef. She ate a bite or two of the beef and anointed with the fruit mix and that was it. I even skipped her nightly a/d feeding hoping she would be hungry.

So my question is, what is the worse but best tasting food I can try to feed her? Is royal canin baby cat tasty to hedgehogs? Is a kitten food a good way to go to try and get her to eat kibble? As long as it isn't to high in protein I am okay with higher fat to get her to eat at this moment. The a/d is really high in fat too.

Also someone suggested this http://www.petco.com/product/112640/Tomlyn-Nutri-Cal-Kitten-Dietary-Supplement.aspx and it looks like crap food which is fine but do you guys think it's safe?

Thanks again guys.


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## DesireeM81 (Jun 14, 2014)

Also I am fairly sure she is eating her own poop. She never does it on camera but there are only poop smears in the morning. What does this mean she is missing?

Maybe another vet visit is in order.


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## gracefulchaos01 (Mar 19, 2014)

DesireeM81 said:


> Also I am fairly sure she is eating her own poop. She never does it on camera but there are only poop smears in the morning. .


...
...
Just... wow.

I hope you get this figured out soon. I'll bet you are well past the tearing your own hair out stage. I really have nothing constructive to offer but I do give my sympathy.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

I would say time for another vet visit, personally. It's not a bad idea to try getting some kitten kibble to put out as well. I think Babycat has been retired, but Royal Canin has another one that replaced it called "Mother & Kitten" or something like that.

If you get the Nutri-Cal stuff, it's only a supplement. Don't give her much in a night, or depend on that for her food. It's meant to only help with putting weight on. Honestly, with the ingredients, I wouldn't bother. It's pure sugar - the first two ingredients are pretty much sugar, and so is cane molasses.

Until you can get her to the vet, I would up her feedings - try to get the full amount she needs into her for right now. That may mean feeding her several times a day rather than just once at night. She shouldn't be losing weight so steadily, and though sometimes eating poop is a learned behavior, that's not a great sign either. 

I'm not positive what I would have the vet check for. Perhaps mouth, teeth, & throat, just to cover that base. Perhaps some bloodwork would be useful too, to see if there's anything out of the ordinary that would indicate something wrong? I'm going to PM Nancy & Kalandra. Both of them have dealt with a variety of illnesses with hedgehogs. Maybe one of them will have some other ideas for what could be going on, or if she's just being picky to the extreme.

I'm sorry I can't help more. This sounds so frustrating and worrying.  Hang in there! Hopefully the vet can help you find some answers for what's going on with this little girl.


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## DesireeM81 (Jun 14, 2014)

I'm just getting out of class so a quick post. I feed her twice a day. She eats 10ml or so a feeding so 20 ml a day. I can try to get some food into her midday. If she will let me or midnight but she doesn't like to eat when she could be running. 


I wasn't sure if the vet visit would be worth it. She is back up to 430 grams as of this morning from 420 yesterday morning. I'll see what I can schedule. Should I try to get in as an emergency or just regular visit? Not sure if I need to pay weekend prices or if Monday will be sufficient. 

Again thank you guys for any help. I'm just at a loss of how to help her besides continuing to feed her which I will do as often as she needs.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

I would guess a regular visit would be fine, since nothing has really suddenly changed to qualify it as an emergency. It just seems like something should be changing by now, so I'd be worried about there being a medical reason she's so resistant to eating enough on her own. I could be wrong, and maybe she's just amazingly picky, but...I'm honestly not sure.

And ah, sorry! I was thinking she was eating less than that for you. Sounds like she's getting a decent amount from syringe-feeding then, which is good. Adding another session in might not hurt, but it's up to you as to whether you think it'd do any good or not.


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## DesireeM81 (Jun 14, 2014)

That's the thing. She eats great for me, but only with a syringe. I can't even get her to eat off the spoon with the same food. She does eat bugs and her pinkie mice which is good.

I'll call the vet tomorrow and see what they suggest for an appointment and any tests.


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

I'd continue to syringe feed her every day until she decides to eat on her own. She may enjoy the comfort of being syringed. Eating 10ml per feeding plus bugs and pinky mice she is getting enough. The fact that she is eating bugs and pinkys plus what you syringe her tells me, she has an appetite, just a selective one. :roll: 

As for eating her poop, often that indicates a nutritional deficiency, but sometimes babies do it just because they are babies. There may be no medical reason for it. I'd phone your vet and ask, rather than taking her in right now. 

Most hedgies love RC Baby Cat, whatever it's new name is. It's because it is small pieces and higher in fat. You could try it with her.

She's been through a lot of changes in her young life, and she may be one of those hedgies who doesn't deal well with change. I think I'd continue with a routine for her. Syringe her morning and evening as much as she will take, and let her have her bugs and pinkies. Leave kibble in her bed as well as her dish. Weigh her daily and chart her weight and food intake. See what the vet says about poop eating, but otherwise see how things go. If she starts consistently dropping weight, or she decides not to eat what she is eating now, then back to the vet. 

I had to syringe feed Parker for 4 months before he decided to eat on his own. Parker had been ill but he was better for over 3 of those months. He ate just fine as long as I syringe fed him. On his own, forget it. :roll:


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## DesireeM81 (Jun 14, 2014)

Thank you Nancy and Kelsey. I'll go buy the baby cat, just to see if she can start eating on her own. I haven't left pieces in her bed but I will. She didn't even eat all of her raw food which she normally does last night but I'm sure that is from splitting her from Rose. I'm glad to know she is getting enough to eat. 

She is a year old so she is a full adult. I'm not sure if that elevates the danger of poop eating.


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

I'm sorry. For some reason I thought she was a baby that had recently been removed from mom. 

An adult eating their poop is a concern as to why. How long has she been doing it?


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## DesireeM81 (Jun 14, 2014)

I noticed she was anointing with some about a week and a half ago. She was awfully smelly so I gave her a bath. I stop seeing the anointing so I thought it was fine. But when I separated her and Rose, that was when I noticed zero poop in her cage, just smears of it in her wheel, on the fleece and on her paws but no actual poops.


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## DesireeM81 (Jun 14, 2014)

*Update! She's finally eating!*

First of all, thank you to everyone who gave me and River advice and support through all of this!

For the first time last night, since I got River, she ate *ALL* of her wet and raw food! It was about 10 ml of food in total. She also ate a few pieces (3) of her kibble, RC Mother and BabyCat. I know this isn't a lot but it's a huge step for her and I am a very proud mother.

She also was not very interested in her syringe feeding this morning only eating about 5 ml. That's fine with me. I will feed her again tonight and see how much she eats but I feel like we are on the right track!

For those who are interested or who have picky hedgehogs, River is eating Nature's Variety Raw Beef and Nature's Variety Wet Cat Food Rabbit flavor. I also have her on Royal Canin Mother and BabyCat which she doesn't exactly care for at the moment. Most of these are pretty high in fat. I use them in a mix with my other hedgehogs. I am okay with River eating these by themselves because she could stand to gain about 50 grams at the moment.


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## gracefulchaos01 (Mar 19, 2014)

Yea!


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