# How to diurnal-ize?



## AllQuills

I know that hedgehogs can sometimes be made to change their sleep schedule so that they're awake during the day and sleep at night. Juni is certainly not like that naturally, so is there a way I could try to reverse her sleeping pattern? :?: 
Thanks.


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## Nancy

No, trying to change their natural circadian rhythm is not healthy and can cause stress and illness.


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## numothehedgehog

Yep Nancys right its not reccomended. You can, but you shouldnt its not natural. 
;]


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## AllQuills

Thanks anyway. I'm not going to, but, out of curiosity, how DO you do it?


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## Nancy

AllQuills said:


> Thanks anyway. I'm not going to, but, out of curiosity, how DO you do it?


You don't!


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## PixiesExoticHedgies

If you're NOT planning to do it, then WHY do you want to know HOW to do it?

Think of it this way.....your friend tells you to go jump off a bridge, and another friend tells you that you should NOT.....but you turn around and ask another friend HOW to do it. It just doesn't make much sense to me.

I've noticed several of your postings, where you'll ask a question, and get a reply that apparantly you don't agree with. Then you'll continue to press the issue, in hopes that someone will give you an answer that satisfies you. I know you are young, but when you ask a question, *please take the advice given*. Sometimes it seems like you plan to do things YOUR way, whether or not it's in the best interest of your hedgehog.

We are here to help answer questions and educate people with regards to hedgehogs. When someone replies to your questions, it's usually from personal experience or proven knowledge. Please do not take my message the wrong way. I have absolutely NO intent of snapping at you. I'm simply trying to give you down to earth, honest opinions, in hopes that it might help you and your little hedgie.

Pixie


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## iamdbf

OMG. its called curiosity. Anyways, feeding them during the day and playing with them then, does it somewhat. The jumping off the bridge thing is way to extreme to use an example. If u think somethings okay, or want to know about it, but others don't think it should be done, it doesn't mean it went in one ear and out the other, it means that you might disagree. If a little kid says "i want a chocolate bar mommy!" and the mom says "it's not that great to have" and the kid says "well, how do you buy it?" is it the end of the world??? If u only SLIGHTLY diurnalize 'em, its not THAT bad. Barely, unless you make them near half-diurnal. (if that is a term. either way, u kno what i'm trying to say)

Though that was a bit different bridge thing, but i hate the anology. Usually, it's like, 
"but he said it was okay to do"
"if he told you to jump off a cliff, would you"
what the retaliated response should be but USUALLY ISN'T is: " Jumping off a bridge is insane. What i thought was okay that i shouldn't have done was within reason!!!" or sumthin lik dat.
SEE? Thus concludes my rant.  :roll:


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## Gnarly

I don't think there is anything wrong with central idea of Pixie's post, while I do agree the "jumping off the bridge" analogy was a bit extreme. It could have been done through a PM, but, whats done is done. 

Diuralizing any animal that is meant to be nocturnal is dangerous, pointless, and I'd even say cruel. While AllQuills is young, she is not stupid, and I'm sure she understands hedgehogs are nocturnal, and understood that before she got a hedgehog.
She is more than welcome to disagree, but if it compromises her hedgehog's health, it would concern may of the people on this board as we all love hedgehogs, and have only their best interests in mind. 

We are all hear to learn and share. Now we have learned hedgehogs are happiest and healthiest if they are left to their natural way, as nocturnal creatures, and trying to change this is unhealthy and unfair.


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## PixiesExoticHedgies

First off, let me say that I'm a MOM and the answer I gave is the same as I would say to my own child. Sometimes you just have to give examples for the younger generation to understand. That's all the statement was intended for....it was simply an example. Thus, don't read more into it, than what was intended.



iamdbf said:


> If a little kid says "i want a chocolate bar mommy!" and the mom says "it's not that great to have" and the kid says "well, how do you buy it?" is it the end of the world??? If u only SLIGHTLY diurnalize 'em, its not THAT bad. Barely, unless you make them near half-diurnal.


The question asked, was in direct relation to a hedgehogs health and well being. Thus, if the mommy said NO, because the child is allergic to chocolate. Would it still be okay for the mom to give the child a SLIGHT amount of chocolate, because it's not THAT bad?


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## nikki

I, personally, think its a waste of time to expect the members of the board to explain how to do something that is so obviously wrong. Why should we bother to explain how to do something that shouldn't be done??


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## PixiesExoticHedgies

nikki said:


> I, personally, think its a waste of time to expect the members of the board to explain how to do something that is so obviously wrong. Why should we bother to explain how to do something that shouldn't be done??


  Yep.....that sums it up, perfectly.


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## Nancy

nikki said:


> I, personally, think its a waste of time to expect the members of the board to explain how to do something that is so obviously wrong. Why should we bother to explain how to do something that shouldn't be done??


Exactly!


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## AllQuills

Okay, okay! Sorry for asking. I know that it's unhealthy.


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## iamdbf

PixiesExoticHedgies said:


> First off, let me say that I'm a MOM and the answer I gave is the same as I would say to my own child. Sometimes you just have to give examples for the younger generation to understand. That's all the statement was intended for....it was simply an example. Thus, don't read more into it, than what was intended.
> 
> 
> 
> iamdbf said:
> 
> 
> 
> If a little kid says "i want a chocolate bar mommy!" and the mom says "it's not that great to have" and the kid says "well, how do you buy it?" is it the end of the world??? If u only SLIGHTLY diurnalize 'em, its not THAT bad. Barely, unless you make them near half-diurnal.
> 
> 
> 
> The question asked, was in direct relation to a hedgehogs health and well being. Thus, if the mommy said NO, because the child is allergic to chocolate. Would it still be okay for the mom to give the child a SLIGHT amount of chocolate, because it's not THAT bad?
Click to expand...

Is the hedgie gonna stop breathing or break out in hives from diunalization like the kid allergic to chocolate would if he had a bit of chocolate? no. I was using the example the "no" cuz chocolate is just kinda bad to have, but barely. lets just forget about this disagreement. Besides, neither of us will change our minds here. Gnarly was right. this should have been a pm. oh well.


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## PixiesExoticHedgies

iamdbf said:


> Is the hedgie gonna stop breathing or break out in hives from diunalization like the kid allergic to chocolate would if he had a bit of chocolate? lets just forget about this disagreement. Besides, neither of us will change our minds here.


Unfortunately, it appears we have another one that intends to do exactly what he/she wants to do.....whether or not it is in the best interest of their hedgehog. This is not a disagreement between you and I. You are apparantly choosing to disagree with everyone else that posted, stating it is unhealthy and it should not be done.


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## Melissa

iamdbf said:


> PixiesExoticHedgies said:
> 
> 
> 
> First off, let me say that I'm a MOM and the answer I gave is the same as I would say to my own child. Sometimes you just have to give examples for the younger generation to understand. That's all the statement was intended for....it was simply an example. Thus, don't read more into it, than what was intended.
> 
> 
> 
> iamdbf said:
> 
> 
> 
> If a little kid says "i want a chocolate bar mommy!" and the mom says "it's not that great to have" and the kid says "well, how do you buy it?" is it the end of the world??? If u only SLIGHTLY diurnalize 'em, its not THAT bad. Barely, unless you make them near half-diurnal.
> 
> 
> 
> The question asked, was in direct relation to a hedgehogs health and well being. Thus, if the mommy said NO, because the child is allergic to chocolate. Would it still be okay for the mom to give the child a SLIGHT amount of chocolate, because it's not THAT bad?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is the hedgie gonna stop breathing or break out in hives from diunalization like the kid allergic to chocolate would if he had a bit of chocolate? no. I was using the example the "no" cuz chocolate is just kinda bad to have, but barely. lets just forget about this disagreement. Besides, neither of us will change our minds here. Gnarly was right. this should have been a pm. oh well.
Click to expand...

Making a hedgehog diurnalis extremely unhealthy for them. From what I understand it can weaken their immune system and kill them in the end. Its not a quick death like an allergy death can be. Instead the hedgehogs are more prone to diseases(which they are already prone to cancers and diseases). They get sick and they suffer because their immune systems have been weakened because someone didnt do their research and later decided to play God and mess with nature.


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## iamdbf

Everyone, it is depending on how much you are diurnalizing them, and i think how. Whatever way you can force them to it has to be bad. If you just feed them during the day, and play with them during the day, isn't that okay? i mean, i'm having Jade be awake during the day only as much as her free will is having her (If she wan't to or not so she can eat or not get woken up as much by day activities). Not in this post, but i have heard that doing that somewhat is ok, just as much as ppl say in this post that its bad. Maybe you misunderstood what i was arguing. I am not forcing her to stay up, and i'm only having her not completely nocturnal, just an hour or to awake during daylight, as she is easily doing, and not being stressed out by it, cuz busides playtime, she chooses when to get up or sleep. i said that anywhere near half-diurnal is bad. In fact, even when i am playing with her, i let her go to sleep against me. What i'm doing with her is okay, right?


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## Melissa

iamdbf said:


> Everyone, it is depending on how much you are diurnalizing them, and i think how. Whatever way you can force them to it has to be bad. If you just feed them during the day, and play with them during the day, isn't that okay? i mean, i'm having Jade be awake during the day only as much as her free will is having her (If she wan't to or not so she can eat or not get woken up as much by day activities). Not in this post, but i have heard that doing that somewhat is ok, just as much as ppl say in this post that its bad. Maybe you misunderstood what i was arguing. I am not forcing her to stay up, and i'm only having her not completely nocturnal, just an hour or to awake during daylight, as she is easily doing, and not being stressed out by it, cuz busides playtime, she chooses when to get up or sleep. i said that anywhere near half-diurnal is bad. In fact, even when i am playing with her, i let her go to sleep against me. What i'm doing with her is okay, right?


Having a little time in the day time isnt making them diurnal. Diurnal is active in the day and sleeps at night. If she is still active mostly at night she is not diurnal. I take my boys out in the day. But its all cuddle time. They sleep when they are out with me. Its just a bonding time between me and my boys.

Taking them out during the day isnt bad. Changing what natures has them naturally doing is.


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## iamdbf

Thats why I said part(ly) diurnal or somewhat diural, or mostly nocturnal or slightly diurnal or not completely nocturnal didn't I? I know I said something like that. I know I made it stated that half during the day, more than that, or even close to that is bad. Lets forget this whole thing ever happened.


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## Melissa

iamdbf said:


> Thats why I said part(ly) diurnal or somewhat diural, or mostly nocturnal or slightly diurnal or not completely nocturnal didn't I? I know I said something like that. I know I made it stated that half during the day, more than that, or even close to that is bad. Lets forget this whole thing ever happened.


There is no half or part or mostly. It is or it isnt. THAT is MY point. If you have her out for a bit in the day and it does not change her sleep pattern than she is NOT in any form diurnal. If you decided one day not to take her out at that normal time would she wake in the day time on her own? Probably not. Mine dont. Because they are in no way shape or form diurnal. Just because the hedgies is woken up in the day time doesnt make it diurnal. Its when it takes on that life style on its own.


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## iamdbf

But the thing is, Jades sleep pattern SLIGHTLY changes. there are about a several several minute periods in the day where i find Jade out. She does get up a little bit for some of the times i don't take her out when i usually do, but not instantly. She comes out more and more as it builds up over time, but just not that much.


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## PixiesExoticHedgies

Just because Jade may get up to drink, eat, or wander around during the day, it does not make her diurnal in any way. It's absolutely normal behavior for a hedgehog. And yes, you can even wake them up and hold them or play with them some during the day.

Diurnalizing is when someone is forcing their hedgie to stay awake during the day, so that it will be tired and sleepy at night. Doing this means you are changing their sleeping habits, and it is very stressful for ANY animal. Knowing that throughout history, this has been deemed as a form of torture for human beings.....imagine how your Jade would feel, if you were trying to do this to her _(stated soley for the purpose of an example only). _ It would stress her out, drop her immune system, and eventually it could cause her to die.

Hedgehogs are nocturnal by nature. If AllQuills knew this before purchasing her hedgehog (by doing her research), and she didn't like the idea that Juni was going to be up all night, then she simply should not have bought her.

She, you, or anyone else should NOT feel bad about taking your hedgie out to play for a little while during the day. Most people do it, and this is perfectly normal. Just don't try to force your hedgehog to change their overall natural sleeping patterns to suit your personal preference.

Enjoy your little hedgie for who she is. I don't suspect that you would do this to Jade, because you seem to listen to the advice that is given to you. The problem with AllQuills, is that she has shown time and time again, that she does not seem to care what advice is given to her, she intends to do exactly as she pleases, whether or not it's in the best interest of Juni.

Pixie


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## iamdbf

I am sure i stated early on that forcing them is not right. Also, i said stuff like somewhat diurnal, i know what i said wouldn't make a hedgie completely diurnal. ANyhow, I am assuming that Allquills was thinking there is a way to do it without forcing them, which wouldn't be horrable. She is not insane, and no sane person would force their hedgie's to do something against there will, unless it's for their own good.


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## Melissa

iamdbf said:


> I am sure i stated early on that forcing them is not right. Also, i said stuff like somewhat diurnal, i know what i said wouldn't make a hedgie completely diurnal. ANyhow, I am assuming that Allquills was thinking there is a way to do it without forcing them, which wouldn't be horrable. She is not insane, and no sane person would force their hedgie's to do something against there will, unless it's for their own good.


I wouldnt be too sure about that.. She forced her hedgie to reproduce... :roll:

Also no one said you were forcing your hedgie to do anything. We are telling you that your hedgie isnt diurnal because what you are doing is NOT forcing her. So she is fine. We are agreeing with you..kinda.. Your hedgie is NOT diurnal.


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## LizardGirl

I think this is getting a bit out of hand...


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## PixiesExoticHedgies

Lizard Girl, 

I agree. There is no need to proceed any further with this issue. 
The original question has been answered.....several times. :roll: 

Pixie


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## iamdbf

Melissa said:


> iamdbf said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am sure i stated early on that forcing them is not right. Also, i said stuff like somewhat diurnal, i know what i said wouldn't make a hedgie completely diurnal. ANyhow, I am assuming that Allquills was thinking there is a way to do it without forcing them, which wouldn't be horrable. She is not insane, and no sane person would force their hedgie's to do something against there will, unless it's for their own good.
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldnt be too sure about that.. She forced her hedgie to reproduce... :roll:
> 
> Also no one said you were forcing your hedgie to do anything. We are telling you that your hedgie isnt diurnal because what you are doing is NOT forcing her. So she is fine. We are agreeing with you..kinda.. Your hedgie is NOT diurnal.
Click to expand...

You must have misread it, but i realize that my hedgie isn't diurnal cuz there is no forcing. WAit, she forced hedgies to reproduce? i didn't kno that. I may be wring obout that forcing thing i said then... but ya, like PEH said, lets end this (i guess you could say it has ended, cuz we no longer really against eachother, but whatev.)


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## LizardGirl

iamdbf, if people say that the problem has been resolved, then it is resolved nadthere is no need to add onto the arguement.

Perhaps this should be closed.


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## sagesmommy

ok , i don't mean to butt in on everyones conversation and please don't take this as trying to continue an argument and i also know that i am new here but i just wanted to say that i am a very sensitive person, i take things way to literally sometimes and especially when i was a little younger, so i just wanted to say that i feel bad for poor allquills. IF that was an innocent statement, and everyone was all of a sudden against me i would feel really hurt. I just wanted to say sorry to allquills for all that was said and i hope she doesn't feel bad...


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## iamdbf

LizardGirl said:


> iamdbf, if people say that the problem has been resolved, then it is resolved nadthere is no need to add onto the arguement.
> 
> Perhaps this should be closed.


LG, i was not continuing the argument. I was actually agreeing with her. the agrument was basically over.


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## Nancy

sagesmommy said:


> ok , i don't mean to butt in on everyones conversation and please don't take this as trying to continue an argument and i also know that i am new here but i just wanted to say that i am a very sensitive person, i take things way to literally sometimes and especially when i was a little younger, so i just wanted to say that i feel bad for poor allquills. IF that was an innocent statement, and everyone was all of a sudden against me i would feel really hurt. I just wanted to say sorry to allquills for all that was said and i hope she doesn't feel bad...


You are right Jaymee, we were hard on allquills but my replies came because by breeding her pet store hedgehog when she has minimal experience and knowledge, allquills has already shown she has very little regard for what is in the best interest of her hedgehog. She didn't listen to everyone's advice about breeding, it's highly doubtful she was going to listen to our advice about this.

I'm going to close this because it has outlived it usefulness.


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