# OK, I know about cat food, what about dog food?



## Rt1Hedgie

Whenever Jasper is out running around, his favorite destination is the dog food dish, and he loves to climb in and chow down. I assume this is OK, since cat food and dog food are fairly similar. 

(It''s Iams Proactive 1+ if that matters.)


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## sarahomnia

I wonder the same thing because we have dogs and not cats, so, if we could use my dog's food (after I check the contents and the fat and protein percentage, of course) then that would be fabulous.
My Mom just asked me about this about 30 minutes ago.


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## Lilysmommy

I'm not completely sure, but I think the main problem with most dog food is the size of the kibble. Cat food kibble is usually small enough for hedgies to eat easily. I would think that if the protein, fat, and ingredient contents were all hedgie-acceptable, it should be fine for them. But, I'm no expert, so wait and see what Reaper or someone else says.


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## azyrios

Do not feed your hedgehog dog food. 

Most dog food is corn based, which hedgehogs cannot properly digest.

Most dog food contains meat by-products as a 2nd or 3rd ingredient where as corn or rice are the first 2 ingredients. 

Most dog food kibble is to large for a hedgehog to eat.

Dog food is high in fat and realitivly low in protein compared to cat food, and is not good for a hedgehogs diet.

There is no benefit to feeding your hedgehog any dog treats or food, and it does not meet their nutritional requirements.

(edit, there are a few dog foods that do meet a hedgehogs requirements, but usually tehy are quite costly, and are not already being fed to a wide range of dogs. My dog's each eat different food. I checked all 3 bags, and all three have a first ingredient of corn and a second of rice, with the third not being a meat or meat meal, but i by-product like guts, skin, liver, organs, blood and bone. Basically all human scrap goes into dog food.)


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## Aleshea

I would not feed my dog or hedgies anything that is corn based or has by products I say if you would not eat it why give it to your pet which are my babies they all get organic foods that have no bad anything in it but I guess that's just how I see things!


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## ana

The food that the OP mentioned actually has chicken as the first ingredient. It's a bit high in fat and has corn meal as a second ingredient though, plus I also haven't really heard anything positive about Iams, so I, personally, wouldn't feed it to my hedgie... I probably wouldn't freak out if she ate a piece by accident or something (and had no trouble with the size/etc.), but I would suggest keeping to the official cat food list as far as daily diet is concerned.

This is a breakdown of the dog food mentioned btw:

Ingredients
Chicken, Corn Meal, Ground Whole Grain Sorghum, Chicken By-Product Meal, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of Vitamin E), Dried Beet Pulp, Chicken Flavor, Chicken Meal, Potassium Chloride, Dried Egg Product, Brewers Dried Yeast, Salt, Flax Meal, Fish Oil (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of Vitamin E), Caramel, Calcium Carbonate, Choline Chloride, Minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Manganese Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Potassium Iodide, Cobalt Carbonate), Vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin A Acetate, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Thiamine Mononitrate (source of vitamin B1), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Niacin, Riboflavin Supplement (source of vitamin B2), Inositol, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (source of vitamin B6), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid), DL-Methionine, Rosemary Extract. 

Guaranteed Analysis
Nutrient	(percent)
Crude Protein, minimum	26.0
Crude Fat, minimum	15.0
Crude Fiber, maximum	4.0
Moisture, maximum	10.0
Omega-6 Fatty Acids, minimum	2.5*
Omega-3 Fatty Acids, minimum	0.25*

*Not recognized as an essential nutrient by the AAFCO Dog Food Nutrient Profiles.

Iams® ProActive Health™ MiniChunks Formula is formulated to meet the nutritional levels established by the AAFCO Dog Food Nutrient Profiles for Maintenance.

Manufactured under U.S. Patent Nos. 5,616,569, 5,932,258, 6,093,418 and 6,238,708; other U.S. and foreign patents pending.


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## Zalea

azyrios said:


> Do not feed your hedgehog dog food.
> 
> Most dog food is corn based, which hedgehogs cannot properly digest.
> 
> Most dog food contains meat by-products as a 2nd or 3rd ingredient where as corn or rice are the first 2 ingredients.


That's like saying don't feed your hedgie cat food. 

Most of the good quality cat foods that are suitable for hedgehog requirements are expensive, also. There's a brand of cat food I want to get that's about $18 for a small bag at my local store, but it's a great brand and I'd like to see if my hedgie will eat it. There are some dog foods that are just as good as a good quality cat food--and some are less expensive for the same size bag. A bag of Chicken Soup for the Cat Lover's Soul costs about $12 at my local store; a bag of Chicken Soup for the Dog Lover's Soul costs about $8. And they both have about the same ingredients. Store brands of food (like the kind sold in grocery stores and wal-mart) are usually made from corn and icky stuffs (even the cat foods) which is why "high quality" food is recommended, and not just "cat food". If you buy a store brand of food, even Meow Mix or 9 Lives, it's likely not going to be suitable for a hedgehog, and that's the food that's usually cheapest. If you go down to the pet store and pick up some Chicken Soup or some Wellness, that's a different story.

As long as the food meets the nutritional requirements, you can feed dog food to your hedgehog. You should always read the label where ANY animal is concerned. In some cases it's actually better because hedgie's need more fiber than cat foods get, and most dog foods have more fiber than cat foods. The problem is the size of the kibble, which can easily be worked around by breaking it up if you really want to use that food.

I would try to keep the hedgie away from the dog food bowl for other reasons than the food quality, although that could be taken into consideration. I would be more concerned about the bacteria that could be in the bowl from where the dog's been over there slobbering and eating during the day.


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## Reaper

One of the other reasons dog food isn't good for hedgies is the hardness of the kibble. Some dog foods are very hard in order to keep a dogs teeth clean. Some even believe cat food is too hard for hedgies and they grind the kibble into much smaller and manageable pieces. You also can soften the food by increasing the moisture content but then the foods bacteria come alive and the food spoils quickly. Softer foods that aren't soft due to artificial softening agents needs to be refrigerated. Artificial softening agents have been linked to many health problems. So we are still trying to come up with the best all around food for our pet hedgies.


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## azyrios

Okay, now i understand i should not have said "Do Not feed", and replaced it with "I suggest against feeding", but i said what i said, and here is some clarification:

My main point is most people will feed their dogs a corn based product. I know there are people who do the "i won't feed my animals something i won't eat" deal which is fine, if feed your dog a premium food, that's fine. My main point is "most" people i have met feed their dog a food that has corn as AN ingredient, if not in the first five. That is an ingredient hedgehogs cannot digest easily. For big dogs i have not had a problem with any of my dogs eating a corn based dog food, and they have all lived full, if not extended lives.

I know some small dogs have more fragile stomachs than those of the larger dogs i have owned and require a premium food. Unless you are already buying this premium food why would you go out of your way to buy a premium dog food as opposed to premium cat food (besides cost).

Dog food also contains a higher fat content on average than cat food, and with a hedgehog needing a low fat diet some of those dog foods will not be beneficial to feed it. I am sure you can fine low fat dog food, and if you can, more power to you. (I am not certain about premium food for small dogs, but i know my dog eats a food with a little higher fat content, and still maintains a very healthy weight.)
If it is more cost effective to buy a bag of dog food than a bag of cat food of the same size and it meets the hedgehog's dietary needs, go for it. 

I just don't see the point of buying a premium dog food if your dogs don't already eat it. If your dogs already eat the premium dog food, then go ahead and feed it to your hedgie bearing in mind that it meets their requirements.

Also, the logic that you shouldn't feed something to your pets that you wouldn't eat is flawed. I defiantly would not plan on eating a bowl of meal worms for dinner, yet they are still fed to hedgehogs, but i have eaten my dog's food before because of a statement like that, and yes i tried my hedgies food before feeding it to him so i could taste what he was eating. On the other hand, i would also not feed my dog some of the stuff i eat (ie chocolate, chips, coffee) and i also eat corn and corn meal, so by that logic why would it be bad to feed to my hedgehog? Just because you would eat it doesn't make it good for something else, and if you had an animal that ate only mice, would you still feed it mice considering you may not have eaten a mouse before? The statement really doesn't work unless you feed your animal a plate of chicken you prepared and have eaten part of all the time.

I am not trying to start an argument as to how i feed my dogs, or that my advice may have been misreported, and i understand that i should have been more eloquent with my delivery. In the future i will insure to include that what i say is just my opinion, and report it as such.


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## nikki

Corn based dog foods are no better for dogs then they are for hedgies. Dogs cannot digest corn so its only a filler..makes them feel full. It passes right through them which in turn produces more fecal matter. There are alot of dog foods out there that contain no corn at all. When they are switched to a corn free diet its been proven that they eat alot less, poop alot less, have heathier coats and are just heathier in general. I guess it depends on how much you're willing to spend to keep your dog heathy.


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## ana

nikki said:


> Corn based dog foods are no better for dogs then they are for hedgies. Dogs cannot digest corn so its only a filler..makes them feel full. It passes right through them which in turn produces more fecal matter. There are alot of dog foods out there that contain no corn at all. When they are switched to a corn free diet its been proven that they eat alot less, poop alot less, have heathier coats and are just heathier in general. I guess it depends on how much you're willing to spend to keep your dog heathy.


Yep...

When I was young, we had many a mutt that my parents would feed whatever... Now, my bf and I have a great dane - and we are always, just like with our hedgie, trying to make sure he's eating healthy. Just about every dog owner I knew growing up was, well, just like my parents... These days, however, I can't think of anyone I know well that doesn't worry about their dogs food as much as we do.

That being said, I want to reiterate what Zalea said: "_I would be more concerned about the bacteria that could be in the bowl from where the dog's been over there slobbering and eating during the day._" While dogs have been reputed to have "clean" :roll: mouths, I still don't think I'd want our hedgie playing in our dog's bowl. (Of course, our dog slobbers more than most, lol, but still.)

...and, of course, Reaper gave other good reasons as well - no one wants to see a toofless hedgie here.


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## George30

hi everyone..
the food of cat are desame with dog??
anyone can give some info about that btw im new in this site..
thanks and GOD BLESS...

Make Money Online


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## hedgielover

Are you asking if dog and cat food is the same? I think the answer is clearly stated in the rest of the thread. I'll summarize. 

No it's not. Dog food is usually lower in protein and higher in fat. It is usually bigger and harder. You can feed dog food to your hedgehog as long as it meets the nutritional requirements (read the stickies in the food and nutrition section) and as long as your hedgehog can chew it (you may have to break it up smaller).


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## fracturedcircle

azyrios said:


> Most dog food is corn based, which hedgehogs cannot properly digest.
> 
> Most dog food contains meat by-products as a 2nd or 3rd ingredient where as corn or rice are the first 2 ingredients.


that is so not true.  please do research the high quality dog foods that are out there before you make these generalizations.


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## Littlefootsmama

There are many high quality dog foods that do not have corn, wheat, soy and/or meat by products which would be perfectly suitable for a hedgehog as long as the kibble hardness was not an issue. Please be careful when making uninformed generalizations.


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## maligator

fracturedcircle said:


> azyrios said:
> 
> 
> 
> Most dog food is corn based, which hedgehogs cannot properly digest.
> 
> Most dog food contains meat by-products as a 2nd or 3rd ingredient where as corn or rice are the first 2 ingredients.
> 
> 
> 
> that is so not true.  please do research the high quality dog foods that are out there before you make these generalizations.
Click to expand...

She was actually very right. Most dog and cat foods are filled with some sort of grain. Dogs and cats do not need grains and they need minimal carbohydrates. Even Natura has foods with grains in them, and they also make Evo which is one of the only two kibbles I would ever feed. To me, it doesn't matter if it's corn or brown rice. Grain is grain, and carnivores do not need it whatsoever.

I've done fairly extensive research on dog and cat nutrition. I feed a homemade raw diet to both and if they eat anything other than that, it's a dehydrated raw diet called The Honest Kitchen. That's usually only if we go camping and have limited refrigerator space.

It was very hard for me to break down and buy California Natural cat food for the hedgies because my brain is engineered to stay far, far away from any commercialized pet food. If I knew how to feed my hedgies a homemade diet, I would. But the research on that is pretty inconclusive with poor results and I don't want to use my animals to test it.


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## fracturedcircle

http://www.dogfoodproject.com/


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## maligator

If I absolutely had to feed a kibble, it would be off the grain free list. Other than that, it's a raw diet for me.

Check out Kymythy Schultze's Natural Nutrition for Dogs and Cats and Lew Olson's Raw and Natural Nutrition for Dogs: The Definitive Guide to Homemade Meals. You've probably already read Food Pets Die For: Shocking Facts About Pet Food by Ann N. Martin.

I'm not saying there aren't good kibbles, but there aren't NEARLY as many. And even with a good kibble like Orijen or Evo, it comes down to the fact that cooking food rids it of it's nutrients.

But I don't want to derail the thread. So, to the OP, it doesn't look like feeding dog food is a good idea.


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## HodgepodgeHedgehog

Aleshea said:


> I would not feed my dog or hedgies anything that is corn based or has by products I say if you would not eat it why give it to your pet which are my babies they all get organic foods that have no bad anything in it but I guess that's just how I see things!


haha...my baby brother LOVES to eat my dog's food!


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## Heavenly Hedgehogs

what do you think of the ingredient list of this list for dog food?
Just curious as it has duck

HOLISTIC
Alternative Maintenance
Small breed
STAGE OF LIFE:
Maintenance (light to medium work), beginning of gestation (0 - 6 weeks), drying up, breeding
AGE:
9 months and over
INGREDIENTS:
Duck meal (25.0%), brown rice, whole barley, ground rice, whole oats, chicken fat, soy protein concentrate, sunflower oil, flaxseed meal, chicken flavour, dried beet pulp, dried corn syrup, DL-methionine, L-lysine, yeast extract, dried cranberries, dried apples, dried blueberries, dried carrots, chicory root extract, dehydrated spinach, tomato powder, parsley, dried honey, mint leaves, dehydrated green tea, dehydrated alfalfa meal, yucca schidigera extract, herbs (0.12%) (dried rosemary, dried thyme, dried oregano, dried fenugreek, dried fennel), dried cayenne, dried ginger. 
GUARANTEED ANALYSIS:
Protein 25.3 %
Fat 15.2 %
Fibre 3.6 %
Moisture 9.6 %
Ash 8.2 %
Copper (as copper sulphate) 25 mg/kg
Iron (as ferrous sulphate) 415 mg/kg
Zinc (as zinc oxide) 250 mg/kg
Selenium (as sodium selenite) 0.3 mg/kg
Manganese (as manganous oxide) 30 mg/kg
Omega 6 fatty acids 2.2 %
Omega 3 fatty acids 0.28 %
Vitamin A 20,150 I.U./kg
Vitamin D3 1,260 I.U./kg
Vitamin E 115 I.U./kg
Vitamin C


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## Heavenly Hedgehogs

just re-read the list, lots of grains and dried corn syrup, and the wrong cut and paste lol . I meant to do a different food and it was from a comparing dog food site.


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## leaveittoweaver

Ugh, all the misinformation in this thread hurts my brain. Let me try to clarify for you all. 

As has already been stated, not all dog food has corn in it. But yes every pet food has some form of carbs. Carbs are not as evil as some people think(Of course I always look for lowest carbs possible but you can't just be like "I WANT NO CARBS IN MY PETS FOOD). What really matters is the source. There are plenty of grain free foods out there that have carbs still. It is impossible to eliminate carbs. Pet food companies are using different sources for their carbs such as potatoes and rice which are somewhat healthier choices. These starches are also needed to bind the dry food together.

I don't personally see a huge problem with feeding dog food if you have to or want to to your hedgie. I personally like cat food better because it has higher protein and the smaller the animal, especially with insectivores and carnivores, the more protein it needs and the lower fat it needs.


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## Heavenly Hedgehogs

most on this thread agree that corn isn't good for the animals, whether it's dogs or cats. Carbs are needed as you say and there are the healthier choices. I know with my dogs they often have chicken with rice that I make or a holistic brand of dog food. I've made and given that to my hedgehogs to sometimes and they LOVE it. There's plenty of choice with decent dog or cat foods out there. As one person mentioned, it also depends on how much people want to spend on their pet's nutrition.


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