# Hedgie Newbie!



## lovesnuffles (Jul 15, 2010)

I'm about to get a baby hedgehog and I'm soooo excited, but I want to do this right. I work at a pet store that sells them. We actually breed our own, so I know the parents are good, I know the babies are healthy. They're way cute and loved by everyone in the store so they're really really sweet too. They're absolutely perfect. The one that I'm getting, I believe, is a Cinnamon? I'm not sure, I have pictures though! So I'll post those up in a while. They'll be ready to go in two weeks, so I wanna be totally prepared before then!!

Ok, so I know they can't be on shavings, right? I can deal with that.

How can you tell the sex of them? Everything I've ever heard has said that if they have the "belly button", they're a male. Well, one of our belly buttoned "males" just gave birth to three babies today and I swear I'm not lying. So is that not accurate or do we just have a scientific miracle? Lol. This one is one of the babies that was left from the last litter. All the others got sold and this one was the only one left. Everyone determined that it was a male and so it went to live with its daddy while the mamas did the baby thing.

At work, we mix the hedgehog food with cat food. Is this healthy? I know feeding them straight cat food would be about the equivalent to us eating cheeseburgers everyday ... But wouldn't mixing it be about the same? Kinda like eating a salad before you eat the burger? Lol

If anyone wants to throw in any other care tips please feel free  Lol. I think my boyfriend and I have decided to name our baby Snuffles.

EDIT: Here's the pictures!


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## Puffers315 (Apr 19, 2010)

Congrats and welcome to HHC.

I'm sure someone is going to ponder that you work in a pet shop that sells and breeds hedgehogs, at least what actual kind of condition they are in since pet shops tend to have a bad rap (for good reasons) around here, but as I see it, we can give you the information shared by the community, and you can educate the pet shop if they are willing.

Shavings - Aspen is the only recommended bedding if you use wood / misc. The most popular around here are fleece liners, light color so you can see urine color and such. Its soft on their feet and less of a mess. As some will point it prohibits them from digging, but you can make stuff for them such as a dig box filled with fleece of even aspen. Wood is usually not recommended due to dust and other factors which can be a problem to some hedgehogs. Aspen can also have sharp edges. Corn bedding can get caught in their private areas, Carefresh sometimes is eaten and choked on by some hedgehogs.

As for sex, the only way is the belly button theory, if you had a so called 'male' that gave birth, then you guys are not looking at the right thing, maybe this one just happens to have something that looks like a belly button. If there is nothing in the middle of their stomach, they are female. If there is something there, probably about the size of a penny or smaller, its a male. And typically if you look, there's a raised bump that goes from the belly button to his rear.

One factor, Hedgehogs should not be housed together at all. Males will fight to the death, they might get along for days, weeks or even years, and then one day they'll dual to the death. In general even being together is stressful, as they are territorial, especially males. Females sometimes can be housed together, but there are many who will also fight, you always gotta be prepared to seperate them if you keep two females together.

Hedgehog Food, actual labelled food is generally garbage or junk food. The standard around here for owners is to purchase several brands from the recommended dry cat food list...

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=15

And make a mix of them. Basically the labelled Hedgehog Food equates to them eating a cheeseburger, versus the straight dry cat food which is more of a balanced meal.

A wheel is a must, and beware that you'll have to clean it every few days, I get the feeling the pet store hedgehogs might not have them at all. Hedgehogs poo and pee when running, so its just a fact of ownership to have to clean the wheel, and the wheel itself is a must. A cakewalk style wheel as seen around here is best, store purchased wheels there are only a couple that are safe.


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## Sela (Apr 10, 2010)

Oh my gawd he's so teeny and cute. What a little sweetie. <3

Are you sure the belly button was in the middle of this hedgehog's belly? On the females, it's much closer to the tail, always. On the males, it's right smack in the middle of their belly.

Most hedgehog foods actually aren't all that great, at least not when fed on their own. As long as you mix it with a couple of high-quality cat foods, though, it's okay. There's a list of good cat foods in a sticky thread in the Diet and Nutrition section that can help you.

The bedding of choice around here is fleece liners. I'm still not entirely clear on how they're made, but I'm sure someone who is will come along to tell you about them.

Congratulations on the new little one, he's just too precious. I don't think he's a cinnamon, though, he looks more like a silver, though the pictures are a little on the blurry side, so it's hard to tell. My boy is a silver snowflake, so I have some experience with silvers, and your little one looks silver-ish. Of course, when they're this young, you can't tell what colour they're going to be, since quilling often changes the colour. I think it's about nine weeks old that you can tell what colour they are, and have it be accurate. LizardGirl (called LG by most of us) will be able to tell you, she's our resident colour expert.

Welcome to HHC!

Edit: Sniped. D< Dammit Puffers.


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## Puffers315 (Apr 19, 2010)

Hehe, I was waiting in the third floor of the book depository.

Fleece Liners, I know some people around here have the skills to actually sew and make nice liners, some I think use cotton fabric or something on the bottom, I've also seen a few sites of people who make them. But in general you go into Walmart to the Fabric Section, find a spool of fleece and buy several yards, then cut down to size. Two layers work best and it comes already folded in half on the spool, so I just unwrap it, measure out width and cut it. Ferret Nations are about 35 inches wide, by 24 inches deep. The fleece is I think 30 wide, so I just cut off the extra 6 inches and use them for scraps, I got two boxes full. 5 or 6 yards can get ya 4 or 5 liners, for at least a ferret nation.

He is a cute bugger.


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## EryBee (May 23, 2010)

The others covered the basics pretty well! Just make sure you provide your new little hedgie with things to crawl through and hide in. Some people you the "chewbular" (or whatever it's called), or PVC pipes. Kleenex boxes filled with fleece scraps are a cozy hideaway that hedgies love too.


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## lovesnuffles (Jul 15, 2010)

Thanks for the replies everyone! Lol, I swear our hedgies at the store are healthy, though reading through some of your replies I can already see I'm going to make some changes. The good thing about my pet shop, I can just change things and explain why I changed them and the others will follow suit. No, our guys don't have a wheel though, but for good reason. One of the babies got trapped under it once and squished  It wasn't very pretty, so the wheel got taken out. Up until yesterday we have what we thought were the "males" together and the females together. Both of the females have been sharing a litter of babies. There's nine babies total. Well, twelve now. But then I took the male out so he wouldn't eat the three new babies, and one of the females got taken out for attacking one of her own babies, and I did make sure first that the other female would adopt it and she did.

And yes, I'm sure that the one had a belly button in the middle of the stomach. Lol, I'm gonna check again when the babies she just had are old enough. I'll even take pictures to show you. But yeah, last time I checked it was in the center.

Thanks for the tip about the cat food!! See, they had it backwards at my pet store. And thankfully, I'm pretty up to date on cat and dog nutrition because of the farm store I used to work at.

I think I'll look into these fleece liners. I haven't gotten a cage or anything yet. I still have two weeks for that, so I still have lots of time!

As far as the pictures go, those pictures were taken when I was hiding out in the reptile room, lol. So the coloring sucks. It looks just like it's mama though  So cute!


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## tie-dye hedgie (Dec 19, 2009)

Do they have a heating source at all?


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## lovesnuffles (Jul 15, 2010)

Are hedgehogs supposed to have a heat source? They are warm blooded ....


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## Sarahg (Feb 18, 2010)

lovesnuffles said:


> Are hedgehogs supposed to have a heat source? They are warm blooded ....


Yes! A heat source is very important. If they get too cold they will attempt hibernation which can easily be fatal. A CHE with a thermostat is probably the best way to go. Check out the heating simplified thread - http://hedgehogcentral.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4579


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## PJM (May 7, 2010)

Snuffles is adorable!! I'm very excited for you & also excited that you can share what you learn with the others at the store. I have found a lot of great, helpful information here. Welcome & congrats on the baby!


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## Puffers315 (Apr 19, 2010)

Sadly it seems any published materials out there on Hedgehogs for the most part is either outdated or just wrong, there are groups who think one thing is fine, and others who'll say its wrong. A good example are 'hamster' balls, somewhere on here someone showed me a picture of a convention, people sitting at tables with their hedgehogs in hamster balls (the massive size ones) on roller tracks, circling around the table. The balls are taboo for reasons such as the ventilation slats are a nail & toe catch, hedgehogs go to the bathroom while running and thus are trapped in there with their own waste and smell, and you can't tell if the hedgehog is running out of fun or fear.

These guys that we have as pets are dubbed the "African Pygmy Hedgehog" and are a hybrid between a white-bellied four toed Hedgehog and an Algerian Hedgehog, at least by the wikipedia way. But they come from a warm climate and have to be kept in warm temps because as everyone else said, they'll go into hibernation, a genetic trait they have but they are not designed to actually hibernate, I think mainly the fact that a hibernating animal fattens itself and these guys don't, they just go in and thus starve to death.

73'F to 78'F (22 to 25'C) is the general rule, some like it on the hotter side, especially ones which are getting on in years, and some cooler. I'm guessing the pet store guys are being kept somewhere in that range, otherwise you would have had one attempt it. You can tell when they do beforehand as they'll become lathargic, slow and wobbly, appetite will slow down and such. I do believe in the end they get into their ball position and become unresponsive. If it does happen, you warm them up slowly, most people will put on a second shirt and use their body heat if it happens, afterwards they need to be kept in warmer temps and watched, because if they attempt it once, there's a good chance they'll attempt a second or more times.

If the pet store is willing to listen to the people here, that would be a major bonus in the hedgehog world, generally pet stores get a bad rap around here from what I've seen namely due to multiple things. The 'large chain' stores like Petco and such of course have the not so well trained and educated type works at many locations, and many of the small business ones are just in it for the money. Then many of these stores purchase their animals from Mills who care nothing about the animal except how many can they create and sell. Look up the Texas Tumbleweed Hedgehogs, picture basically a giant 8 foot bin that is nothing but solid hedgehogs. 

I think its rare you find the old school Mom & Pop store that actually take care of the pets and care for them. How exactly is the hogs setup in the store? And how is breeding done, it sounds like its a free-for-all going on either multiple mothers and babies together, there's probably been more than the 12 babies you currently have with many others who were never noticed because the mother ate them out of stress. Like around here, from what I've read in general with breeding (and cause I had the possibility of a litter with Hester) that mothers are kept in solitude for at least two weeks with as little human and other animal contact as possible, otherwise they can freak and eat the young.

But if you're open minded and so is the pet store, then at least more good than bad can happen.


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## lovesnuffles (Jul 15, 2010)

Yeah, my pet store isn't like most. We do actually care about our animals. The boss is happy as long as the animals are healthy and everyone loves them. They get plenty of love and attention, and no, the pet store doesn't get under 75 degrees at any time. Lol, I live in Louisiana. It doesn't matter how high you have the air conditioner, it's still gonna be hot. Lol

The hedgies are set up in a giant square bin. They're maybe 4 x 4 bins. They have shredded newspaper for bedding, a big hide, food bowl and water bottle. There are two bins where two mothers live with their babies. The father and the other mother are in separate temporary cages until I figure out what to do with them. The breeding kind of happens by accident lol. When we clean the cages we put them all together and Daddy gets his chance and he takes it immediately. Dude's a pimp, what can I say? Lol. And the mothers rarely get human contact. One of the mothers I call Pudge gets some contact, because she's the only sweet one, but the other mother is a hellion. She really is. She's mean to everyone and everything. She even tried to attack her own baby. She's a very bad hedgie. Gorgeous, but very very bad.

I'm willing to listen and I'm willing to take complete control of hedgie care up at the store, so teach me and it will be done!

I have to share this picture cause it's just sooooooo cute!!


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## Puffers315 (Apr 19, 2010)

They're so cute when they're babies, and adults too, but its like a kitten, just too cute for words.

First thing I'm going to say is that I'm not an expert at all, I'm still new to the hedgehog game but I've spent a good four months doing nothing but reading, so I've gathered a great deal of information, hopefully the other experienced owners and breeders will jump into the boat and help ya out, but these are my suggestions if I walked into the place with the knowledge that I have, and had the power to change them.

Well, as you said "Daddy is a pimp" and that true with the male sex drive of a hedgehog. If there is a female near, he will want to mate, and it only takes a split second for a pair to mate. Females shouldn't be bred more than twice a year with a period of rest in between. I would stop any breeding for the time being until they can get educated on how to do it right. As said, there's probably been more litters than they think, its just the mother might have had them, and then ate them due to stress.

Hedgehogs are loners by nature, so the ideal setup would be to have them all seperated, which will probably be somewhat costly depending how many the store currently has. You said you got 12 babies, at least 2 adult mothers and 1 male, 15 which ain't bad. The best cage idea for the store would probably be sterlite bins, largest you can handle, and then give each their own. I'd change if possible from newspaper which can carry toxins in the inks, to aspen. Then of course food and water dishes for all. The water bottle is fine, but its an unnatural position when the hedgehog drinks from them, and there have been problems with hogs chipping teeth or even getting their tongue caught. Water Bowls provide a more natural position.

Those changes right there would probably be a good start. If everyone had their own wheels which would be getting really costly, that would be great but I don't see that happening, plus someone would have to clean all the wheels daily since hogs poop and pee on them.

With the cost of bins and bowls and hidey huts and such, at least from a business sense I would basically have the whole setup for sale, you get the hog, the bin, the bowls, and their hidey hut. I would also provide new owners with a care sheet, that explains the types of foods they should and should not have, and the basic care information, such as keeping them warm, keeping them away from drafts and so forth, I could probably write something up myself and let everyone else here proof read it. Then when someone purchases a hedgehog, they'll have the information, plus I'd point them to this forum.

The one thing I would warn about customers is that hedgehogs are not ferrets or hamsters and are pretty unique in their own nature. As a prey animal, they can be very shy and timid and scare easily, and I've read stories of people who bought a cute little hedgehog thinking it would be a fun pet, and then learn different facts, like they can be very grumpy and it can take a lot of time for them to get use to you and their surroundings. We see many who get re-homed off craigslist due to these facts.


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## lovesnuffles (Jul 15, 2010)

The separate bins thing is going to be a problem for all 16 hedgies for more than just the reasons of space and cost. The babies aren't ready to leave their mamas yet, won't be ready for another two or three weeks.

Good to know about the breeding thing though. This is the second litter this year so I'll make sure not to put them together at all anymore.

Also, we do have caresheets on them, but I haven't read them. I'll read over them. If you wanted to create a care sheet, I'd use it though. It might actually be a good thing for the whole forum. If anymore pet store employees were to come along, they could use it too. It'd be great.

As far as the whole people buying them thinking they'll be a cute fun pet and then they turn out not to be, this goes for all my animals at the store, not just hedgehogs, I'm very .... I guess you could say "maternal" towards them. They're my babies  I love them all. And I won't let them go to someone unfit to own them. I see it all the time with my reptiles and I hate it when people say "Oh, pretty snake! Let me buy it!" not realizing said snake gets 20 feet long and has the power to EAT a small child. I do use my right to refuse sales if I feel it's necessary.


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