# bloody wheel bloddy feet



## kkw16

Hi is me again the new hog owner. Today is the forth day. OMG i am posting questions everyday.
today i notice that he has bloody wheel and bloody feet. i read a post before saying that bloody wheel is normal because my hog doesn't get to run on the wheel from the previous owner. I got him a FLYING SAUCER WHEEL/12 inch. i am not sure if thats a good one for him because i read one of the post saying that the wheel surface should be smooth. I have clean the wheel and his feet now. I am planning to let his legs sit for 1 or 2 nights until his fetes are back to normal.

Am i doing the right thing for my hog. Should i change the wheel to the Larry's wheel??
But i really like the one that i am having now. it traps all the poop in the centre and the wheel and nothing goes into the cage. Its so simple to clean. 

give me some comments please


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## susanaproenca

Hey there!

I'm not sure if I understood, did he hurt his feet with the flying saucer? Or did you switch to the flying saucer after he had been injured? 

I believe you should take his wheel away until his feet are healed. And I highly recommend the Carolina Storm Wheel, they are very safe and comfortable for hedgie's feet, and they are super easy to clean.


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## Puffers315

Its the right thing, beware he might thrash his cage because the wheel is gone, they usually get kind of pee'd off when its removed, but its better to let his feet heal, otherwise he'll keep running and keep having bloody feet, than add in the fact that he walks through his own urine and feces, its helping him not get sick.

I wasn't aware that the poop and pee on a flying saucer collects in the middle, everything I've read was more the opposite, that people have had it flung against the wall, heh. But either way its either keeping a clean cage and having bloody feet, or having a somewhat dirty cage with healthy feet, I'd go the healthy feet way. Its not that bad either as Larry provides a litter pan to go under the wheel. I don't use one, I just pick up any solid poo there is (when its dry and hard) and my Hester tends to make a lot of poop chips with her wheel which leaves little crumbs around, I just use a piece of duct tape around my fingers to pick them all up (others use lint rollers which I"d like to get some).

But I'd definitely recommend LarryT's Carolina Storm Wheel, good customer service and quick shipping, its quiet and very easy to clean.


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## PJM

I would also suggest removing his wheel. Poor guy is probably in love with it & can't make himself stop. 
I don't have a flying saucer wheel, but from what I understand, they are one of the safer wheels to have. Much better than a lot of other options. 
I would suggest you give him something else to entertain himself with while the wheel is out of the cage. Perhaps cut up some fleece strips & put them into a tissue box or something. Put a couple pieces of kibble at the bottom as a treat. He can use it as a dig box & it may keep him busy for a little bit. I also hide a couple treats in different spots in the cage.
But after having a wheel & obviously loving it, yes, he's going to be a bit upset at you. He'll get over it though.


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## kkw16

i kinda want to change to a Carolina Storm Wheel but my cage is too small for that wheel. 
23 inch by 17 inch by 9 inch but i don't use the cover. the Carolina Storm Wheel is huge it takes up like 65 % of the space. 

this is how it looks with the wheel. but under the wheel that is some space the hog can play around. I feel kinda sorry for him because i don't have much space for him. But I always take him out to play


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## kkw16

here is the picture of his cage


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## Puffers315

Well, in short, he needs a bigger cage. That's really cramped. The thing you can do with the storage bin setup is connect several together with 5 inch PVC piping. Many use two bins, one contains their house and food dishes, the other contains the wheel.

Yeah, that's only 2.8 square feet of floor space, its recommended 4 square feet total with roughly 2 feet of open space after you add their house, dishes and wheel in.


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## EryBee

I recommend getting a bigger bin, or as Puffers said, connected several. It's more money of course, but hedgehogs need space to move, play, explore, etc. You don't want their cage to become like a jail.


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## Kenzi

This is a repost of what my bin set up is like just for an idea.
I don't use that igloo. (Mila didn't like it) she uses snuggle bags, and blankets. Also, the loft has fleece scraps in it. Mila didn't like that plushie either, so my dog gladly took it (its a dog toy anyways).

Adding a loft freed up some space, but I'm working on a C&C now. 

























I labeled parts of the pictures to identify the features.
1.	Fluker's Lamp, 10 inches in diameter with a 100 watt Ceramic Heat Emitter
2.	This is the arm to my grooming table. This securely clamps onto the table; I clamped the lamp to it and secured it with mini bungee chords just in case.
3.	15 qt sterilite latch box. 17x12x6 inches. I call this the loft. Because the walls are short, I kept the lid on. I cut a large hole and covered it with insect screen. This provides plenty of ventiliation.
4.	Flex-A-Spout. 4 inches in diameter, this plastic hose is generally used to drain gutters. I bent it like a bendy straw. Its inclination is about 35 °, so I hope it isn't too steep.
5.	105 qt sterilite latch box. 32x19x13 inches. I drilled additional holes 7 inches from the bottom for ventilation. 
6.	L Brackets. 2 of these were enough to make the loft very stable.
7.	Thermostat. This is a PF-1000 Heat controller.
8.	Thermometer probe connected to the Thermostat.
9.	Digital Thermometer Display
10.	Thermometer probe connected to the Digital Thermometer.
11.	Igloo
12.	Fleece liner
13.	Litter pan. I got this from a thrift store. 
14.	Flying Saucer Wheel. This is 12 inches in diameter
15.	Food, Water, and Treat bowls


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## kkw16

thx for all the information. I am planning to get one more bin for him right now but i am just thinking how should i do it. but my hog is mostly out of the cage when i am home just to let you guys know.


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## kkw16

OMG i gave him his wheel back because his foot seems to be alright now. I figure out last time was just one of his toe that was bleeding. And i see that his toe was healed. But last night be bleed on the wheel again and much more!!

is it my wheel that is hurting him? or what? Is there other things i can do other than just taking away the wheel??


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## nicolebeare60

i took 2 bins with a piece of piping and connected the 2. it was pretty difficult to cut the hole for the piping, but we ended up using a exacto blade, someone might have a better suggustion for this though


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## Sheryl

Maybe his nails are too long and need to be trimmed? Wilson's nails seem to grow quickly. I trim them every two weeks or so. I know you said before that the CS wheel would be too big for his cage, but maybe it would be possible to get another bin and connect the two with some piping? You could put the CS wheel and litter tray in the one bin and his toys and house in the other. The CS wheel is nice because it has nothing raised on the running surface to interfere with little toes and sensitive foot pads.


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## kkw16

I have already cut his nails yesterday. So i got his nails cut and in the same night i gave his wheel back to him. So it shoulnt be the problem of his nails. This morning i just see a bloody cage and a bloody wheel. I just cleaned his cage yesterday night too. So he is back to no wheel day now. 

Also, i am getting a 30 gallon tank for him so he should have enough space tmr. BTW he is using a FS wheel not the CS wheel.


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## Kenzi

Tanks aren't recommended because the ventilation is worse and cleaning is more difficult (as they are heavy). 

Are you 100% sure the bleeding is from his foot? Where on his foot?


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## kkw16

i think the place where is bleeding is in between his toes. and a little spot on one of his paws. 
I think if i can a tank I will just keep the top open to keep well ventilation. 
Then would you say having a two storage bin connected together is better because it is just lighter to move around?


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## Puffers315

Well I think the main problem with tanks are the fact most are long and skinny, because people who have used them despite warnings do keep them top of them open, they don't use a solid cover, either open air or one of those mesh screen covers. But the long and skinny factor of most tanks prevents a good air flow. They can be used, but you need a giant one that is more square shape, say a 3 foot by 3 foot square, and usually you're starting to get into a high price range with such tanks and cleaning can be a pain because you're also getting into heavy weight. I guess if you got the space, able to clean them throughly and can find a large square tank, it would work.

I can see what you're thinking, a storage bin is kind of the same as a tank, but again a storage bin is more square or at least wider than most tanks, and people cut ventilation holes into the side. You can take say a quarter inch drill bit and drill the holes down all the sides and even though they're small, they allow air to flow through the bin.

I would use storage bins over a tank, they're cheaper, definitely easier to move around than a plexiglass or real glass tank, and you're able to drill ventilation holes into them.

Oh, and as for the feet, I would almost say they sound like they might be dry, if its between the toes then I don't see how he could be hurting them on the FS wheel, if he's an avid running and has dry feet, than it sounds like he's running until the skin cracks. But I'm not sure what you could use on them.


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## spastic_jedi

Moose gets dry feet sometimes and they bleed a little... if it is dry feet what I would recommend is getting flaxseed oil capsules (you can get these in the vitamin sections of pharmacy's.. make sure it's a gel capsule) and I puncture the capsule with a needle and squeeze the inside oil into his foot baths. It's a scent free and irritation free oil that will help moisturize your hedgie's feet and skin.. this may help heal the skin  

Hope this helps.


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## kkw16

The tank that i will be getting is free because my friend is giving it to me. Maybe I should try the flaxseed oil capsules. 

So when do u apply it and how to u apply it?

Also, I am having difficulty on holding his legs. How do you guys hold on to their legs??

BTW this is a side question. How often do you guys wash their legs??


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## Puffers315

How big is the tank though?

Foot Baths are usually given as much as needed. My guys never get them but somehow manage to keep their feet sparkling clean compared to most. Use the flaxseed in a foot bath, its where you fill a sink with just enough warm water to cover their feet and let them walk around in it, typically to soften up poopy boots. As for holding his legs, when you have him out for bonding time, play with his legs, he'll get use to it over time. For me when I trim nails, its usually in a foot bath and I just hold them firmly but not a death grip, they're usually too distracted with trying to escape to really take notice that I got their leg.


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## nikki

A free tank that ends up causing health issues for your hedgie will end up costing you alot more than another type of cage for him. Sometimes free isn't the best or most cost effective way to go.


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## kkw16

the free tank that i am getting is goon be bigger than the cage i am having right now about the double the size it would be in. It would be longer wider and taller. So i believe is just goon be better for him. 

Btw i was just bonding my him few mins ago. he feels free for me pet him on his back but not yet to his head yet. Today just the 7th day that I have him. Since i adopted him i believe he would be less friendly maybe. But the sec i put him back into his cage. He hiss at me right away when my hand is close to him. I really want to figure out why.


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## Puffers315

Well always keep in mind that each hedgehog has their own personality, and that he's only been with you for a week. They'll change over time, it may take months. I've had my boy Loki for almost half a year now, and he's -just- starting to feel very comfortable, at least enough that he was actually napping outside his house last night, first time I've ever seen him do that. Much like your boy, he's fine with petting on his back but the second the hand gets near his face, he'll at least visor up on me.

As for him hissing at you when you put him back in the cage and then stick your hand back in, its probably a territorial thing, as they can be territorial little devils. Its one thing when you have him out of his cage and on your lap, kind of like he's in your territory, but when you put him back in the cage and then stick your hand in, now you're in his territory. Just if he's doing it when you go to get him out, ignore it, otherwise he'll learn that by hissing at you, you'll go away, and at times you do have to show them who's boss.


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## kkw16

what can i do to show him that i am the boss because i tired like sticking my hand in and somewhat clean the cage and add food or just move him around with a toilet paper roll. Doesn't seems like he knows i am the boss


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## Nancy

kkw16 said:


> what can i do to show him that i am the boss because i tired like sticking my hand in and somewhat clean the cage and add food or just move him around with a toilet paper roll. Doesn't seems like he knows i am the boss


I hate to tell you this, but you aren't boss. He is! :lol: They are territorial about their cage so huffing and carrying on when you put your hands in his cage is totally normal.


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## Puffers315

Wrong choice of words on my part, Nancy is dead right though, he's the boss, I just meant don't back down from doing what you got to do, such as spot cleaning and picking him up. My girl is very territorial over her cage, she doesn't even need to see me to start hissing, if she hears me outside spot cleaning, she'll start hissing from inside hear house. I just tell her to be quiet and continue what I'm doing. Worse if she's on the wheel, then I get a real ear full.


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## spastic_jedi

They're right, you really can't change that sort of hedgie behaviour and you shouldn't expect to. I've had Moose for about a year now and he still gets hissy and huffy when I put my hand down in his cage. You've also ONLY had him 7 days, be patient... he'll come around to you and become more comfortable but it isn't going to happen right away. Hedgehogs take a lot of time and patience


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## Kenzi

I believe that I read somewhere that another benefit of bins compared to a tank isthat bins have angled walls which help circulate air better than a tank's straight walls. 

I know some bins have straight walls,but the preferred sterelite bins have slanted walls


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## shaelikestaquitos

Kenzi said:


> I believe that I read somewhere that another benefit of bins compared to a tank isthat bins have angled walls which help circulate air better than a tank's straight walls.
> 
> I know some bins have straight walls,but the preferred sterelite bins have slanted walls


You're supposed to drill additional holes into sterilite bins anyway.

You could do the same with the aquarium, but I think the biggest problem is that aquariums are heavy.


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## kkw16

ok ic 
yah i know i only have a very short time with my hog but i just want to make sure that the things i am doing for him are right. 

BTW i took away his wheel for like 2 days and i was playing with him today but he kept on trying to bite me. Whenever he bites on something he bites for like 3 mins. Is there anyway for me to make him let go? All i have tired is to blow on his face. i am scared that if he bites on my finger very hard and wont let go for 3 mins. it is going to hurt like **** if that happens.


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## Puffers315

The biting if its something new, might be a side effect to him not having his wheel, as said before they can get very grumpy when they don't have their wheel, it kind of frustrates them BUT like in your case, it sometimes cannot be avoided if they're causing injury to themselves.

Blowing in the face isn't always the best method, sometimes it can aggravate them more, some claim it to be a method in getting them to stop, but you might have a 50-50 chance. Whatever you do, don't yank your hand or finger away if he does bite, its the natural human response to getting bitten but it can damage or even break teeth. Don't even pull, as pulling sometimes can make them bite harder. I would just try and avoid getting your fingers near his face. If you got mealies near by, might also work in getting him to let go. If he's biting while you have him out, offer him some food, sometimes it might be because they're hungry.


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## kkw16

I dont think is because he is hungry
i gave him food before he comes like. And he ate a lot too. but he is still trying to bite me. I really don't get why. And they are like long bites which last for like 30 secs


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## Puffers315

Whats the situation with the biting? Is this when he's out, are you putting your hands in front of him, does he charge you? I'm really no good with biting, the only time I've been bitten is when one of my guys sniffs my finger when I haven't washed them and have per say handled their mealies or food before, I guess they like finger sausage. There are at times cases in which a hedgehog can be a biter, some of the other members have dealt with them, hopefully they can give you some advise. I know if they tend to bite per say at your hand, you just try and keep your hand away from their face.


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## kkw16

i don't know but my hog's case seems to be getting worst.
now when i get close to his cage he starts biting on the liner like really hard. for like 4 mins and keeps huffing even i finish cleaning his cage.

feels like our relationship is going a down hill.

i am also a bit scared of him now because if he bites me it can be a really serious bite!


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## Puffers315

How old is he? I'm just wondering now if he's hitting puberty, might be the old male hormones kicking in, though I forget if they can get bitey during that period. Has he gotten his wheel back yet? If not, might also be pent up energy, even if you let them run around the room for a couple of hours, young hogs have tons of energy.


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## kkw16

i am not sure the previous owner is not sure too because on the post where i got him states 8 months. When i ask her in person she said 7 month. I guess my hog should be roughly 1 year old.

No the wheel is not back yet. 
i gave him back yesterday but then he went crazy running again and bleed again. 

So i took it away. I am planning to give him a wheel for 30 mins each day now.


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## Puffers315

Yeah, unless someone corrects me, they can get really frustrated, cranky and grumpy over not having the wheel, but you're kind of in a catch 22, he can wheel, be happy but have bloody feet, or be grumpy without the wheel and let his feet heal. I would say it'll probably be a rough patch, but I wouldn't call it going downhill, once his feet heal and he gets back on the wheel, he'll settle right back down again.


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## Kalandra

For starters, you need to continue to interact with him and to not be scared of him. He is a hedgehog, yes his bite may cause some pain, but it isn't that bad, trust me I have been bitten for longer than 3 minutes and the hedgehog ground his teeth while doing it. Yes it hurts, but the pain goes away. Keep your fingers and skin away from his mouth. If it helps you feel more comfortable holding him, use a piece of fleece to buffer his mouth and your skin. If he bites it fine. Don't try to pull it out of his mouth, you are likely to only upset him more. 

How do you react to a bite? If he is biting you, you do not want to react to it in a way that encourages him. Do you put him in his cage or put him down when he bites? If yes, stop. Doing so only encourages biting. Continue to hold him for a while longer after a bite and keep your fingers away from his mouth. 

Another thought, do you wash his liners in a scented detergent, do you wear perfume/cologne or use a scented lotion, smoke or anything else that can leave a lingering scent? While the bites you describe do not sound like the typical "that smells good I need to bite at it" bite, it is something to consider.

Do you have anything else in his home to entertain him? Are you giving him outside of the cage time to run and play? Hedgehogs need to exercise. Removing a wheel is sometimes necessary but we have to give them exercise outside of the cage. He needs time to run around outside to exercise, the more active he is the more time you are going to need to give him. Also add items inside his cage to continue to entertain him. When I have had to remove wheels I add tubes to run through, piles of fleece to burrow and explore in, fabric cubes to push around and bite/carry, etc. He may be getting upset because there is nothing else to do in his cage.


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## Hogguins24

This may be a dumb question, but what kind of house or "cave" does your guys' hogs sleep in? As a temporary home I cut an opening out of a show box for mine. And I'm just wondering if there are any smaller ones that I can make.


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## Hogguins24

Shoe***


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