# Help me with the food mix!



## gusanr14 (Sep 18, 2015)

At this moment, I am feeding my two hedgehogs Blue Buffalo Healthy Aging. 
My 2 year old hedgehog needs to lose a little weight. My 3 months old boy is a runner but still gaining little weight. 
Anyways, I am trying to mix couple cat foods together. However, I have no idea what to mix! Do I have to mix foods with similar protein and fat? how does this mixing cat food work? Any good recommendation of cat food? just 2~3 different food including Blue Buffalo Healthy Aging. Foods I can easily get from petsmart or petco would be great! Also, I heard ingredient with fish can make the poop smell bad right? Anything without fish ingredient would be great!


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## twobytwopets (Feb 2, 2014)

Did you read the stickies in the diet and nutrition section? That will answer about 75% of all questions regarding nutrition. It will also explain the why certain ingredients are good/bad and why your looking for certain nutritional values. There is even a list of recommended foods.


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## gusanr14 (Sep 18, 2015)

How is Chicken Soup for the Pet Lovers Soul Adult Cat Light? Do you think this can be put into a mix too?


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## twobytwopets (Feb 2, 2014)

That depends on what is important to you. 
Are you going for more than one source of protein?


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## gusanr14 (Sep 18, 2015)

I have read all the stickies bug I don't fully understand it. Any recommended cat food mix? what mix are you using?


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

What don't you understand?

Food mixes come down to what each person wants in their food, what they have available to them, and what their hedgie needs, so it's almost impossible for us to make a specific recommendation for you. That's why we have the stickies, to try & help people know what to look for and avoid, and how to put together an appropriate mix.  If you let us know what has you confused, we can hopefully help clear that up so you can find what you want.


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## twobytwopets (Feb 2, 2014)

Ok let's go small steps. 
Read over this http://www.hedgehogcentral.com/foru...3034-beginner-s-guide-hedgehog-nutrition.html if something needs clarification or you have questions, ask. It may be something that Lillysmommy might have missed or it might need a bit more clarification.


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## gusanr14 (Sep 18, 2015)

Alright. The food I am giving my hedgehog is the Blue Buffalo Healthy Living. It has 34% protein and 18% fat. It also has oat, barley and brown rice which I read is not really good. I am probably going to stop giving this food once I slowly change my hedgehogs to new food. 
I came down with two cat food mix, could you guys tell me if it's a good mix or if I should add any other food?

It is Blue Buffalo Basics Turkey & Potato 30%Protein, 12% fat 3.5% fiber.
Second one is Chicken Soup for the Pet Lovers Soul Adult Cat Formula
30% protein, 20% fat and 4% fiber. 

There are turkey and chicken for the meats so I thought it would work well! Any comments for my thoughts? I kind of feel like I need more protein and lower fat, but I can't find one with high protein and low fat. 

Also, where do you guys get the Chicken soup for the pet lovers? I could only find them online, Amazon, which I am probably going to buy it from.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

The protein is just fine, though I'm not sure if you typoed, but the Chicken Soup adult formula said 34% protein when I looked it up. Either way, it should be fine. I used to find Chicken Soup at the pet store chain I worked at, Pet Supplies Plus, but it's not a country-wide chain, as far as I know. There's a store locator on the site, you could try that to see if there's any place local you can get it from - http://www.chickensoup.com/retail-store-locator

The fat is on the high side, mostly due to the Chicken Soup. It might not be a bad idea to check out your local stores & see what you have available in them & maybe find something that you don't have to order online (if you can't find the Chicken Soup). You should be able to find something else good that has lower fat. I would suggest the mature version of Chicken Soup, but the way they made it lower fat was to add in powdered cellulose, which I think is ridiculous.

I spent more than one trip at my pet store browsing through the cat food aisle & flipping over most of the bags to check protein & fat percentages. My coworkers gave me some weird looks, but got used to it. :lol: It's time-consuming, but it can be really helpful when trying to decide on a mix.


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## gusanr14 (Sep 18, 2015)

Oh it is 34% protein. There is actually a store near me that sells the Chicken Soup adult formula. I will probably get the Chicken Soup adult formula no matter what. However, I do understand that the fat is on the high side. Should I change out the Blue Buffalo Basics to something with lower fat? How should I work this out with Chicken Soup? I am keep looking through my chart but have no idea what to mix it in with.


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## gusanr14 (Sep 18, 2015)

I am considering having Wellness Healthy Weight to the mix since it has 8% fat?
Should I add it to the mix? or should I take out the Blue Buffalo Basics and just add Wellness? Wellness also has chicken in it, so I was thinking having three of the food listed mixed would be great? Your thoughts?


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## twobytwopets (Feb 2, 2014)

Help yourself out, why do you like or dislike a food. If it's simply nutrition isn't exactly where you want it, you can either replace it with a different food or adjust your ratios.


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## gusanr14 (Sep 18, 2015)

alright


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## gusanr14 (Sep 18, 2015)

I can't seem to delete my same reply... 

I do understand what you mean! I will probably try out with the Blue Buffalo and Chicken Soup, having more Blue Buffalo ration, and see how the weight changes! If it increases too much, I will probably add Wellness Healthy Weight to lower fat.


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## twobytwopets (Feb 2, 2014)

http://www.wellnesspetfood.com/m/product-detail.aspx?pet=cat&pid=20&pt=1&pl=1&ct=13
That food? 9% fat. Ingredients look to be OK, granted I only did a quick skim over it. And didn't crunch numbers on mixes.


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## gusanr14 (Sep 18, 2015)

You know what? I finally found something good, as far as I think. I am going for the Chicken Soup Weight&Mature care, which has 9% fat!
Mix with whatever I think is the best .


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## twobytwopets (Feb 2, 2014)

Here is what helped me creating my mix. 
I understood the basics of nutrition. 
Then I sat down and made a list of my personal priorities I had in food choices. What I wanted to see in a company, individual food, and what I didn't want to see as well. How many foods I wanted in my mix, what I wanted out of a mix. 
Also all that got ranked as far as how high a priority it was to me.

Then I started looking at foods. And I was basically grading each food. If the grade was to low, it was gone but kept the information on it because it might be useful later. The ones I felt made the grade, I started crunching numbers on. That became my OK list.

From there came how easy I could get it, how far do I have to travel, do I have to order online, those types of issues. Price point also came into play at that point. That became the good food list.

From there I was able to form my mix.


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## gusanr14 (Sep 18, 2015)

What does it mean by crunching numbers on?


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## twobytwopets (Feb 2, 2014)

Is the nutritional info within the right ranges? If say fat is higher than I wanted, did it have a reason to be OK, like higher in protein. This is where I figured the dmb figures for all the food.


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## gusanr14 (Sep 18, 2015)

Alright.. So, how should I introduce the new mix to my hedgehog?
Should I slowly mix both Blue Buffalo Basics and Chicken Soup together? with the one I have originally?


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

One food at a time, it should take 2-4 weeks to switch. Most people will do one week of 1/4 new to 3/4 old, then one week of 1/2 and 1/2 & so on. If he has green poop, slow the switch down a bit, if he seems to be doing fine & really likes the new food, you can go a bit faster if he doesn't get stressed by it.


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## gusanr14 (Sep 18, 2015)

Alright. I finalized my cat food mix. Solid Gold Kat-n-Flocken, Blue Buffalo Healthy Living Adult Salmon and Chicken Soup light. Average protein comes out to 34% and 13% fat. Is that good amount of nutrition? There are 3 different meats in the mix! Sounds like a good mix? Feedback please  Wait, never mind on Blue Buffalo Healthy Living adult Salmon. Can't seem to find that food now. 

Is the Authority Grain Free Salmon&Potato good food?

Salmon, Salmon Meal, Dried Peas, Dried Potatoes, Chicken Fat (Preserved With Mixed Tocopherols), Pea Protein, Potato Protein, Dried Beet Pulp, Dried Egg Product, Natural Flavor, Dicalcium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, Inulin, Salt, Choline Chloride, Vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin Supplement, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate, Vitamin A Supplement, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement), Sodium Hexametaphosphate, Minerals (Zinc Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Calcium Carbonate, Sodium Selenite, Calcium Iodate), Taurine, Vegetable Oil, Lecithin, Rosemary Extract

I just want to add salmon to my mix, even though poop might be smelly, heard hedgehogs really like salmon, is that true?


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## twobytwopets (Feb 2, 2014)

One note about diet and hedgehogs, you diet doesn't work if your hedgehogs don't eat it. That's why you need plan b,c,d and sometimes e.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

It depends on the hedgie, but it definitely doesn't hurt to try a salmon-based food.  There are mixed reports about fish making poop stinky. Some people have issues, some don't. I would guess it depends partially on the hedgehog tolerating it well and partially on the quality of the fish ingredients - higher quality fish ingredients are supposed to be less likely to cause issues as they're easier to digest.

Your mix sounds good!  You can worry about finding another food later if they decide they don't like one, but for now, go ahead & start working on introducing one of them and see how it goes.


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## gusanr14 (Sep 18, 2015)

Thanks for the help!
I just bought the Solid Gold Katz-n-Flocken. 
I am going to mix this first and slowly add other mix to it.

I decided that I should get the Blue Basic Duck & Potato and Chicken Soup light since there is already a fish meal in the Solid gold!


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## JillGat (Oct 30, 2015)

I think it is reasonable for new hedgehog owners to ask exactly what food mixes other, more experienced, hedgie owners feed their pets. It isn't helpful to hear "whatever you decide is important to you (the owner)." Why should I "do the research" when others already have? I don't want to reinvent the wheel. I would like to hear exactly what blends other members here have used, after having done research and experience with their hedgehogs. Thanks.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

I try to encourage new owners to do the research on food rather than just telling them exactly what to get for a few reasons. First, many people don't know how to read ingredient labels on pet food or understand what the ingredients mean, and I think that's something very important to know (especially since people often already have other pets that could benefit from the new knowledge). Even if you only get the basics down, that helps with choosing a healthy food for your pet instead of giving them a crap grocery store food that can potentially cause health issues. Some pets do fine on them, many don't, and they have ingredients that are linked with many issues.

The other reason is because it gives them a better knowledge base to work with if their hedgehog doesn't do well with a food or if they can't get something in someone else's mix. I know food is a very overwhelming topic for new owners - it's why I've written so many stickies on the subject to try and break it down & explain what to look for. But again, if you can get the basics down, then you're better able to adjust the mix if your hedgehog doesn't like or handle a food well, or if you end up needing to get a lower fat content, or if a food isn't available where you are & you need to find something else. We've had people that have something like that happen & they just immediately panic & ask what they're supposed to do & want another exact food given to them to buy. If they already know the basics of what they're looking for, they're better prepared to go back to the store and find an alternative to try out instead of panicking because the recommended mix didn't work for their hedgehog.

And the last thing is because some people are pickier about what's in their food mix than others are. This is why I recently wrote up the Advanced Guide, which has some more "nit-picky" considerations that some people may find important, such as a company's reputation, or the number of carb-heavy ingredients in the food, but others may not want to worry about. The most important thing is that the food is healthy for the animal and that the animal does well on it. Past that, it's about what's important to the owner and how much information and control they want over the diet. One person may have a mix of more expensive, very high quality foods that are from small companies & may be hard to get. If they recommend that to someone else who doesn't have the same very-high standards for food, but just want something healthy for their hedgehog, they may panic about trying to find those exact foods when it's not exactly necessary.

Okay, long answer, sorry. :lol: There are brands that are commonly used, which is why I made up the Recommended Brands sticky (though I need to revamp that...as soon as I can find the time). But past that, I honestly do think it's really important that people do a bit of the legwork on understanding food rather than getting an exact mix that someone else feeds because it's easier.


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## twobytwopets (Feb 2, 2014)

Adding to what Lillysmommy said. 
Vets get minimal education on nutrition and the basis of that education is geared for dog and cat nutrition. They have a basic understanding on food for those species. You feed your dog a good quality dog food, cats get good quality cat food. With that mindset, every animal should receive species specific foods. Many vets will suggest feeding hedgehogs a hedgehog diet, that's what is recommended in most of their books. 

So you are standing in your vets office and they recommend you feed a hedgehog food. You would then say no, I feed this mix of cat food. The vet has the right to ask why, it's a reasonable question. 
Would you really want to say, I feed this food because I've done the research on the foods and made this choice or would you like to stand there and say, I made this choice because someone I've never actually met online said they feed their hedgehog this mix? 

The original poster has mentioned they have intentions to become a breeder. Becoming a breeder is more than putting 2 hedgehogs together and keeping your fingers crossed. To be a good breeder, or owner, of hedgehogs a person would need an understanding of husbandry, healthcare, life stages, and nutrition. The list of things a breeder should understand is longer but they should understand these issues.


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## FinnickHog (Dec 1, 2014)

I'm a little late to the party here but I wanted to add that my hog gets a bit of salmon based food in his mix. The fat content is higher, so it needs to be cut with a lower fat food. But he loves it, and his poops have been fine. He's been eating it for six months now. So as for the smelly poop issue, it probably depends on the amount, the quality, and the individual hog.

I'm using Halo Indoor Cat Wild Salmon, but it's very similar to the one you chose. It makes up about a fifth of my mix.

http://shop.halopets.com/Products/Cat-Dry-Indoor-Salmon-3lb


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## twobytwopets (Feb 2, 2014)

I think a lot of us have a fish product in our mix. Particularly those of us who want more than one protein source. 
With anything quality is important. Think about if you were at a restaurant for a nice dinner. On the menu is sea bass, salmon, mahi-mahi, and fish meal. You know you don't want to order the fish meal. Unnamed meats are bad at best. 
Some hedgehogs can handle ingredients better than others, some can't handle them at all. This is no different from people.


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## gusanr14 (Sep 18, 2015)

Yes. I definitely think research is necessary. Anyways, I just bought the Solid Gold Katz-n-Flocken. I just mixed little bit to the original food they get. However, they didn't eat the new food but ate the old food. I did do like little bit of new food and 3/4 old food. It's just been first day but I am worried if they don't eat at all, what am I going to do with the food?! Does it take little longer for them to try? is expecting for them to eat on the first day is a lot? Just want some experience from others, who had this problem but the hedgehog ended up eating?


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## gusanr14 (Sep 18, 2015)

Any experiences in this kind of situation? Maybe take long for them to get use to it?


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## gusanr14 (Sep 18, 2015)

Oh also, does the kibble shape matter? old one, blue buffalo is cylinder shaped but the new one is x shaped.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

Kibble shape can matter some hedgies, but I haven't heard of it being a major issue for someone in quite a long time. It was frequently discussed when I first joined the forums & for a couple years after, but it hasn't been mentioned much in the past couple of years.

Give them some time.  I would say try the new food for at least 2-3 weeks before you give up on it. Depending on the store, you can sometimes return open bags of food within a month as long as you have the receipt & the bag is still at least half full. You can check into that, just in case they don't take to it. But just keep adding it in for the rest of the week. If they're still not touching it at all, you can try mixing old & new kibble together in a container so the new can smell a little like the old. Some people also crush old kibble into dust & toss the new one in it, which can help even more.


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## gusanr14 (Sep 18, 2015)

I will definitely watch for couple weeks. If he doesn't like it, I will return it to Petco and try other new food! Thank you so much for help Lilysmommy and twobytwopets. You guys helped me a lot.
quick question, should I throw away the left overs in my hedgehogs food bowl every day?


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## twobytwopets (Feb 2, 2014)

Quick answer is yes. Notice how much is there, counting pieces is better. But discard it, or feed it to a cat, and give fresh daily.


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