# Sick hedgie



## megan4032 (Dec 10, 2010)

okay so i think my hog might have whs. I can try to post a video. please help. she has been loosing a lot of quills too and shes only two. im keeping her warm.


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## megan4032 (Dec 10, 2010)

should i tell the breeder?


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## susanaproenca (Aug 14, 2010)

I'm sorry to hear she is sick!  

Can you post more details, like what her symptoms are, when did they start to show up, her diet, previous medical history, temperature in her cage? That way people might be able to help.


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## MissC (Nov 15, 2010)

And just to clarify for the experts: she's two years old, right?

And how long has she been losing quills and roughly how many a day...like 4 or 40?


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## megan4032 (Dec 10, 2010)

symptoms: super wobbly when she walks and loosing quills
when did they show up: she started loosing like 3 quills when i would hold her last week but now its like 5 every time i hold her
her diet:The Goodlife Recipe: Indoor Cats
previous medical history: i just got her from a breeder two weeks before Christmas and she was a birth mother
temperature in her cage: toasty 76


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## megan4032 (Dec 10, 2010)

yes shes two


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## susanaproenca (Aug 14, 2010)

That food is bad for hedgehogs, so I wonder if it's a nutritional deficiency that she has. I'm on my phone now and can't post the ingredients, but first ones are chicken by-product meal and corn. 

My advice for now is to bump the heat a little bit more and make sure she is eating and drinking. The health experts will come along soon.

Is she scratching a lot?


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## megan4032 (Dec 10, 2010)

i haven't noticed scratching and i was just using the food the breeder gave me.


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## megan4032 (Dec 10, 2010)

would she be loosing quills if it were whs?


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## megan4032 (Dec 10, 2010)

update! shes eating! i fed her a meal worm and she ate it right up


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

Does her tummy feel nice and toasty warm? 76 should be warm enough but there are some that it isn't and some need a warm air temperature as well as needing a heating pad under neath their bed. 

If you just got her before Christmas, the quill loss could be stress related. Sometimes it takes a while after a stressful event to loose the quills. If no other reason can be found, that might be it. Quill loss can also be from nutritional deficiencies as has been mentioned. I'd add a good food into her mix. How many kibble is she eating per day? Count to be certain. 

A heating pad on low wrapped in a towel under her cage would be a good idea to see if it is a temperature issue. 

Wobbly can also mean sick so if temperature is not an issue it would be a good idea to visit the vet. 

When she wobbles, does she tip over? Can you post a video of her walking? 

Edited to add: If she isn't eating her kibble, do you give her fresh food in the dish daily? Sometimes they won't eat if the kibble has sat in the dish more than a day.


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## megan4032 (Dec 10, 2010)

First of all thanks everyone for your support. to answer nacy's questions her tummy does feel warm, I wouldn't be surprised about the quill loss since I did get her recently but she never lost that many quills before even right when I got her. I will try to add a video but yes she does tip over. When she stands still she shakes back and forth and when she moves her legs forward she falls to the side. I don't give her fresh kibble daily though I just make sure its full all the time but i will start doing that so thanks.


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

megan4032 said:


> First of all thanks everyone for your support. to answer nacy's questions her tummy does feel warm, I wouldn't be surprised about the quill loss since I did get her recently but she never lost that many quills before even right when I got her. I will try to add a video but yes she does tip over. When she stands still she shakes back and forth and when she moves her legs forward she falls to the side. I don't give her fresh kibble daily though I just make sure its full all the time but i will start doing that so thanks.


Has she been loosing quills the whole time you've had her? Typically, stress related quill loss starts a few weeks, sometimes a month or more after the stressful event.

Sadly, shakes back and forth and tipping over sounds like WHS and she is at the age it commonly strikes. When she tips over, how quickly does she get back up? Does she make a paddling motion with her legs? A video would be helpful.

When feeding her, you only have to give her a couple of tablespoons fresh each day. You will get to know how much she eats and you only need to give her a few kibble more than what she eats daily. That way you don't waste food.


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## MissC (Nov 15, 2010)

Here, susana:

Chicken-by-product meal, ground whole corn, corn gluten meal, chicken, dried beet pulp, powdered cellulose, natural poultry flavor, whole grain brown rice, animal fat, dried peas, rice, wheat flour, brewers dried yeast, salt, potassium chloride, choline chloride, dicalcium phosphate, titanium dioxide, dried vegetables (spinach, tomatoes, carrots), calcium carbonate, taurine, skim milk powder, dl-methionine, vitamins (dl-alpha tocopherol acetate [source of Vitamin E], vitamin A acetate, niacin, vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin supplement [vitamin B2], thiamine mononitrate, [Vitamin B1], d-calcium pantothenate, vitamin D3 Supplement, biotin, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate [source of Vitamin C], folic acid, vitamin A acetate, vitamin B12 supplement, niacin, riboflavin supplement [vitamin B2], biotin, pyridoxine hydrochloride [vitamin B6], folic acid), vegetable oil (source of linoleic acid), minerals (zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, zinc proteinate, manganese sulfate, copper proteinate, potassium iodide), naturally preserved with mixed tocopherols, marigold meal, chlorophyll.

I think susana's right: there are a couple concerns: lots of corn in first 5 ingredients (hedgies can't digest corn - no one can); I think there's an issue with beet pulp?...hopefully, susana will comment further...

I would make a vet appt ASAP...just in case...the wobbly thing would concern me.


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## megan4032 (Dec 10, 2010)

I got the video on my file but i dont know how to post it and I thought the vet couldnt do anything about whs?


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## megan4032 (Dec 10, 2010)

Yeah i dont know how to upload a video but i checked out some videos online and im pretty sure she has whs. I will take her to the vet but i thought they couldnt do anything about it?


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## MissC (Nov 15, 2010)

Sorry...it took me forever to master my signature pic. :roll: 

Even if IS WHS and there is no treatment, you need to see your vet for a diagnosis and to rule out anything else that could be causing the wobbly walking - especially if it is something to do with nutrition or heat etc.


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## lmg_319 (Oct 4, 2010)

You could upload the video to youtube and link it here.

I'm sorry she is going through this. You said she was a birth mother, I would suggest talking to your breeder as she may have passed it along if she does have WHS.


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## megan4032 (Dec 10, 2010)

I did email the breeder and I will bring her to the vet ASAP thanks 
here is the video
.


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## megan4032 (Dec 10, 2010)

Thank you everyone for your support and suggestions. I will keep you up with Adeline's condition the video is on my last post.


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

Give her a heating pad and see if that helps. Although it looks kind of like WHS, it also looks like too cool.


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## Hedgehog Grove (Jul 21, 2010)

Please try the heating pad for awhile to see if things improve before settling on it being WHS.


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

When did she start wobbling? The heating pad is the easiest thing to try to see if it helps.


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## megan4032 (Dec 10, 2010)

I increased her heat and am keeping an eye on her thanks for all the help. I think it might be a heat thing because she just started wobbling I will keep you all updated I am setting up a heating pad as we speak.


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## megan4032 (Dec 10, 2010)

OMG!!!!!  I just walked into the room to see her running around her cage with no problems!!!! hallelujah!!!!!! im keeping her extra warm from now on i think my thermometer needs new batteries. thanks for all the help every one! bullet dodged!!! sorry you had to help me with a false alarm! i appreciate it        :mrgreen:


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

YAY! Temperature can really make them wobbly. You may find just upping the temperature a few degrees is all she needs.


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## Hedgehog Grove (Jul 21, 2010)

good to hear she improved nearly straight away with a temp increase. Keep an eye on her over teh next 2 weeks and see how she does with the new temp.


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## megan4032 (Dec 10, 2010)

I don't think it was right away I increased when it when I noticed the wobbliness at around one and let her sleep for awhile and found her better then ever hours latter. but I feel really bad you guys had to help me with my episode. its my first hedgie and if anything happens i go into full panic mode! :?


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

No worries. Glad to help. Glad it was something easily fixable.


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## susanaproenca (Aug 14, 2010)

I'm SO glad she is doing better!!!   

You might want to think about adding a good quality cat food to her diet too. Here is the thread about dry cat food: 

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=15


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## MissC (Nov 15, 2010)

If you want to try a heating pad but don't have one, you can make one at home verrry easily.

Make a pouch out of a sock or corner of a pillowcase - any material that is fairly close-knit.
Fill it with plain ol' rice - the amount depends on how heavy/filled you want it.
Close the pouch - in a pinch, you can just tie it shut.
Microwave for max 3 minutes. I would start at a munute and check every 30 seconds.
When it feels hot enough, shake up the rice - make sure there are no hot spots!!
Check again to make sure it's not too hot and no hot spots!!
Cover with fleece or other hedgie-safe material.
Put hedgie on it but make sure she can move away from it if she gets too hot (ie just put under half a hedgie bag)

I made a huge one for my BF using an entire bag of rice and he loves it!! He stores it in the freezer and uses it cold, too.


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## megan4032 (Dec 10, 2010)

The rice idea sounds great! Do you know how long that usually stays warm? 
And I will upgrade her food for sure  I was thinking the Light chicken soup for the cat lovers soul


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## megan4032 (Dec 10, 2010)

I emailed my breeder again to correct the first email and she was very understanding


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## amber.vroman (Nov 2, 2010)

I am soooo happy for you. I am glad that it wasn't as serious as WHS. Keep us updated.


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## PJM (May 7, 2010)

Don't feel bad about posting! This has been quite the learning experience & will hopefully help more hedgies in the future! I'm SO glad for you that it was something as easily fixed as heat. I know that you must have been in pieces all day. But now everything is fine. Yay!!


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## MissC (Nov 15, 2010)

megan4032 said:


> The rice idea sounds great! Do you know how long that usually stays warm?


About 20-30 minutes, I think. Jamie almost always freezes it, so not a lot of use when it's hot. I originally made one for Snarf for after baths, as he was throwing such impressive tantrums I couldn't hold onto him without tying him in a towel. :roll: But as soon as I made the pad, he started liking to cuddle after his bath. Figures.


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

The rice/wheat/barley etc bags work great for short term temporary heating for those hedgehogs that are acceptable to them. The smell drives some of them absolutely NUTS and they chew and chew on the bag. Also, the bags create moisture which can leave hedgie slightly damp which is not something you want with a hedgie that is already cool. You can get hand warmers at Walmart that last either 6 or 10 hours. They are cheap and will work well for spot heating.


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## megan4032 (Dec 10, 2010)

Update! Adeline is doing great! No wobbliness what so ever!  I got a little space heater which I can program to a certain temp. and it seems to work perfectly  I was thinking of getting her a heat light instead or a heat pad but I don't know which one yet. Her loosing quills is probably stress which makes sense because I just moved her into a new room and it was probably colder that the one before but I will make sure to keep her extra toasty from now on! I will upgrade her food to Light chicken soup for the cat lovers soul and slowly mix it in as I have seen recommended. Although I am going to wait to mix it in until she gets used to the new room and I get the temp. under control because I don't want to add any more stress. I am also thinking about getting a snuggle safe pad but I have seen some horror stories on that.


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

I've never had any problem with the snuggle safes but I tend to put them under the cage rather than in. I prop the cage up on books the thickness of the snuggle safe and slide it underneath. That way, even if it does leak, it's away from the hedgie. Even in the vehicle, I usually put the SS under the carrier rather than in it. 

Chicken soup is good and usually well liked. My gang have always had it in their mix. 

A ceramic heat emitter will heat her cage and is a better option than a heating pad. Heating pads are good for those that need some extra warmth in an already warm cage but most hedgehogs don't need a heating pad. A warm cage is far better than spot heating as being on a heating pad is very warm and when hedgie gets up to wheel or eat, the rest of an unheated cage feels that much colder. 

A ceramic heat emitter setup can be more pricey initially but it costs far less to operate than a space heater. You must have the proper heat emitter approved fixture and must have a thermostat to control the temperature of the emitter. 

I'm glad she's doing well and no more wobbly.


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## MissC (Nov 15, 2010)

megan4032 said:


> I am also thinking about getting a snuggle safe pad but I have seen some horror stories on that.


I was going to buy a SS but realized I will only need it in two conditions: when we travel and when the power is out. I have been using hand warmers when we travel and they work great, especially if I can't guarantee microwave access; if the power goes out a SS isn't going to do me any good.

If you decide to go with handwarmers, you may need to stock up: they're really hard to find here at times (and I live in a ski resort! :shock: ). I plan on buying a few to hang onto over the Summer but keep in mind, they also 'expire'.

The homemade warmer works as well as the storebought one we have but that one is filled with lavender...very strong lavander...I haven't noticed the rice smelling but it would depend on what filling you use. It gets about as damp as the storebought warmer, so I wrap it in fleece. What I like is being able to make it any size/shape you want! Very handy!!

One hedgehog...so many things to consider... :roll:


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## megan4032 (Dec 10, 2010)

So heres the game plan: Heat lamp and light cat lover soul food! I also put in an extra fleece lining for her to burrow! It will be her birthday soon and I love spoiling her.  Adeline has been doing great and has stopped loosing so many quills so were doing good! I didn't start mixing in the new food yet but I will be sure to tell you how she likes it! Thanks every one for the support throughout our trauma!


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## susanaproenca (Aug 14, 2010)

Glad to hear she is doing better!


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