# A message about Neosporin :/



## chrisbourke (Feb 15, 2012)

Hello HC members,

I have some terribly sad news, my hedgehog Guillermo just passed away Saturday evening :/
I only had him for 3 weeks and I didn't realize how much joy he brought into my life every day.
It's been terribly sad not having him around the past two days.

I'm writing though due to what the vet had said, and I don't want this happening to anyone else.
As some of you may remember, I posted about Guillermo cutting his face on his wheel.
I got quick help from the forum from very eager members and I truly appreciate that help.

I brought him to the vet the next day after putting Neosporin on his nose as recommended in the forum.
It appeared the next day that he had been rubbing his nose on the ground and ended up getting the neosporin on the fur around his eye.

The vet helped get the hair unstuck near his eye and told me to use hydrogen peroxide twice a day each day until it was dried out, then to use liquid bandages.

I came home the other night after a quick 3 hour test shoot to find him dead in his cage :/ 

I brought him in to the vet the next morning seeing as the offices were closed at night.
She said it seemed that the neosporin had sealed in bacteria that must have made it's way to his eyes despite the hydrogen peroxide and caused his death.

I do not want this happening to anyone else, so please be careful with treating cuts with your hedgehog.

I've felt absolutely miserable since I got home, but I'm so glad I was blessed to have his presence in my life for the 3 weeks I had him.
I will always miss him.
R.I.P. Guillermo

I wish for good health for all of your hedgehogs.
I'm considering going to look into picking up another hedgehog soon.
The day after he cut his face, I made sure to get a large, large cage, a carolina storm wheel, and inspect every inch of the cage to make sure he'd be safe.

I'm scared to death by the though of losing another hedgie, but I hope I'll get to keep my little best friend for longer :/

Chris


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## vasogoma (Feb 25, 2012)

Chris, I am terribly sorry for your loss, I totally know that feeling and I hope you feel better soon.
Thanks for letting us know about the incident, that way we will all be more careful with home-treatments.
Don't blame yourself, accidents happen, and I hope that if you do decide to get a new hedgie that you are extremely happy with the little fella.


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## jeffs0719 (Dec 20, 2011)

Chris, don't beat yourself up over it. You did everything you could. I'm very sorry for your loss. Just remember to keep your head up.


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## chrisbourke (Feb 15, 2012)

Thanks guys :/

The hardest part was when my girlfriend came over and saw :/
I had to pull her away from the cage she was crying so hard.
We both miss our little guy dearly.

Thank you all for your help and support on this forum.

Chris


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

I'm very sorry for your loss. 

I highly disagree with your vet though that using neosporin caused it. Neosporin is used to help prevent infection. It is also water soluble so would not seal in bacteria. The only risk with neo or polysporin is the pain relief formula.

I wouldn't beat yourself up over using neosporin. I highly doubt it was the cause.


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## nualasmom (Nov 13, 2011)

I'm so sorry to hear about your loss. I can't imagine how sad this must be. Maybe you telling Guillermo's story will help save the lives of other hedgies on the forum. It's tough because hedgies r still relatively new to being domesticated and there's still so much to learn. I remember reading ur post about the cut and the response to use neosporine. I've also read other threads where owners have used it on cuts with much success, but after Guillermo's tragic death, maybe it isnt a good idea to use anywhere on a hedgies face due to thier propensity to rub and nudge with thier nose and face. I hope u do find a new hedgie to give love to.


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## Christemo (Oct 5, 2011)

Neosporin was not the cause. The only negative is with the 'pain relief' kind because it has a numbing agent in it.
It's a shame, but I would not blame the Neosporin. If it kept in the bacteria, then it wouldn't be good for humans, too.


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## JustOnePost (Dec 27, 2011)

Nancy said:


> I'm very sorry for your loss.
> 
> I highly disagree with your vet though that using neosporin caused it. Neosporin is used to help prevent infection. It is also water soluble so would not seal in bacteria. The only risk with neo or polysporin is the pain relief formula.
> 
> I wouldn't beat yourself up over using neosporin. I highly doubt it was the cause.


I would recommend you research before you as a admin make that statement in fact it says on the back a hint towards the fact it does in deed seal bacteria in, confirm this with your own physician.

While traditionally its based on puncture wounds such as piercing being to avoid of Neosporin as it needs oxygen which sealed it is prevented.

I can't say what caused this unfortunate event and I am deeply sorry to the OP that they lost a quilled one so early. however the quick disregard for an informative response is a concern, in fact many recommendations by yourself and others here if you dig deep might be risky to hedgehogs while its true no one knows enough to be an expert to act higher then though for other opinions or information is reckless.

Please in the future avoid immediate disregard of a post of such circumstances as tragic as it is a life was lost something may be learned from the situation, just because its been used and done for a long time with no issue means nothing to it being safe. Your basis for things without looking at the any results is very concerning, in fact you can find the vet is potentially right about the sealing if you just take the time to research.

Even regular strength can be risky in sealing, don't believe me ask a medical professional, while in most traditional cases it may be harmless depending on the wound it may not be the best option.

image of box warnings

As you can see deep or puncture wounds which need oxygen which if ointment is applied will seal it.

Not trying to bash anyone but providing information, as prior I am sure since it doesn't fit with the admin(s) and staff opinions it'll be ignored or disregarded, I am not a know all, however I know a risk with a living creature and when not to use something, there are other options and how its done here isn't the best and always safest way.

I just see the tired we've been doing this for years with no issues as an excuse here which is exactly what it is an excuse, plenty of hedgehogs use unsafe wheels and aren't hurt, plenty eat lesser recommended foods and live long healthy lives, plenty run in balls in never get hurt. I find all of the previous things to be unsafe however you see my point, saying oh well i've been a owner/breeder for this amount of years and it didn't happen to me so its okay make it valid, by that logic you validate others unsafe use of those balls, wheels, and lesser foods.

In the future please be less reckless with responses to information which could prove beneficial to the hedgehog community as you are an admin and well respected hedgehog community member people see posts by someone by you can treat it nearly like a law, beware of such power as you may unknowingly be endangering those that you seek to protect.

Remember i am not bashing, nor trying to be harsh, just honest with my opinion, we must be proactive to information not reactive and the idealism that I've done it with no issue does not validate it.


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## nikki (Aug 28, 2008)

JustOnePost said:


> Nancy said:
> 
> 
> > I'm very sorry for your loss.
> ...


I am treating my Texas Tumbleweed right now for a severe infection in her leg. She's always had trouble with an excema like rash on her legs due to the conditions she was kept in before being rescued. The vet believes it was itchy and she chewed her leg. The leg became very swollen, hot to the touch and severly infected pretty much overnight. I took her in and most of the skin is missing from her entire leg. She chewed it off. She was put on oral antibiotic and I have been instructed BY MY VET to apply neosporin to her entire leg daily, wrap it in teflon gauze and then wrap it in vet wrap to hold everything on. I have been doing this for over two weeks now and the leg is doing wonderfully. The neosporin, which was recommended by my vet, has helped to keep it from getting to much scab build-up and is allowing the leg to heal from the inside instead of the skin healing before the muscle does. Her leg is no longer swollen, or red, or hot to the touch.

This shows that Neosporin IS safe to use and IS recommended by Vets and does work. This is validated by a licenced vet so please quit attacking Nancy just because you don't agree with her.


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## GoodandPlenty (Feb 4, 2012)

I am so very sorry to hear what happened, and surely do hope that you are able to make your way to having another hedgie. It's a tragedy. I picked up my hedgie today and specifically asked my breeder (nearing twenty years!) about Neosporin because of the questions that you raised.

She is not a doctor, and didn't try to play doctor, but she advised against my ever using Neosporin or any other ointment without a vet's order. She will happily talk to me about what a vet says (her background and experience are valuable things), but the doctor is the doctor.

It sounds so swell, that using a dab of Neosporin would do the trick for something that seems so minor. But when you think about it, it's not hard to see why playing doctor is a bad idea. How many vets (real doctors that know what they are talking about) are recommending that people administer Neosporin to their animals? Where is the documentation assessing risk? I don't know. I'm asking. The advice that you got is advice that I could have easily followed myself. It's not your fault.

You meant well. You did your very best. It's a horrible thing to have happen. But the story and circumstances could be a good wake-up call for people. However well intentioned, anecdotal evidence should not be confused as medicine or science.

All life is fragile. I'm very sorry for your loss.


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## moxieberry (Nov 30, 2011)

I agree that it shouldn't be so quickly dismissed. I had previously done some research on neosporin, after it was mentioned by our breeder the first time we met with her prior to bringing Archimedes home. She felt very strongly about not using neosporin for hedgehogs, and that polysporin should be used instead. She told us that she had hedgehogs with bad reactions to neosporin several times, whereas the same hedgehogs had no adverse reactions to polysporin.

Neosporin contains three antibiotics. The potential issue comes from one of them, which is neomycin. Polysporin contains the same ingredients, but without the neomycin.

Neomycin has a much larger chance of allergic reactions and side effects (in people as well as animals) and it can cause pneumonia or damage the lungs if accidentally inhaled. (For this reason, parents are often cautioned against using neosporin around a baby's nose and mouth; accidental inhalation can cause a problem for anyone, but babies are especially sensitive to it.) It is considered "relatively toxic" to humans.

There is also a clear warning on the packaging of neosporin to avoid contact with the eyes, though I was never able to find any specific information about what the adverse effects would be, or which ingredient(s) are the reason for that warning. In humans, the known possible side effects include swelling of the face, throat, tongue, and lips, and also difficulty breathing or swallowing. (I have no idea whether this would be the same for animals, or a hedgehog in particular, but I think they're worth mentioning.) Neosporin (for humans, also don't know about animals) is considered toxic if swallowed; while it takes more to do damage than the normal amount that is applied topically for humans (i.e. a small glob swallowed won't kill you), hedgehogs are quite a bit smaller than we are.

I don't know how any of this information might be relevant to this particular case, or to hedgehogs overall, but for anyone wanting to be informed, there it is.

Was the vet in this case completely correct about the cause of death? I have no idea, I'm not a vet.
Is neosporin definitely the culprit in this situation? Again, I have no idea. (My guess is that, if neosporin was involved here, it was probably related to the close proximity to the mouth/nose.)

Should neosporin be completely dismissed as a possible cause, or as a possible contributor? No, it should not.

This doesn't mean that neosporin definitely will cause problems, or even that there's a particularly good chance. However, given that there is an alternative without neomycin, and considering so many people here prefer a "better safe than sorry" mindset, I see no reason to not take potential risks of neosporin seriously. For those of you who have used it in the past without issue, you have every right to decide based on your own experience - but just because a person hasn't experienced problems with it personally, doesn't mean possible problems don't exist at all. I think GoodAndPlenty (who posted right before I finished typing this) said it very well, and I fully agree: anecdotal evidence should not be confused as medicine or science.

-

Chris: I'm so sorry that this happened to you, and to Guillermo. Please don't ever think that this was your fault. Even when you do our best, sometimes not everything is within your control. Even though his life was cut short, he got so much love from you. That's obvious. When you're ready, I think it would be a great idea to get another hedgehog baby. It couldn't possibly replace the little boy that you've lost, but you were a wonderful hedgehog parent, and you will be again, given the chance.

Thank you for posting, so that others can have the chance to learn something from your unhappy experience.


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## JustOnePost (Dec 27, 2011)

nikki said:


> JustOnePost said:
> 
> 
> > Nancy said:
> ...


If you had read my post in it entirety I said in some situations it may be ideal however it is NOT always the best to be used one vet telling you for one situation does not make it fact, in you situation it was a needed item, again is provided facts and since it doesn't sit well its being rejected without valid research instead bringing a single instance.

I said I am not attacking however sometimes honesty is needed, with great respect in a community comes a lot of responsibility and saying things or negating something so frugally can be detrimental, being you were mentored and your close friends with her I understand and respect you coming to her defense, I merely feel people should realize each situation is different and arrogantly recommending applying substances when you are not a medical practiciioner is reckless and dangerous as proved in this situation,

You state your vet said use it and it worked so its fact however that must mean this person's vet was not as good as your as Nancy disagreed as her experience tells her otherwise which I can understand however you cannot just assume since something hasn't happened to you with it that it is indeed safe I repeat the situation on items which are not safe that some people have used with no issue.

I am stating a different view of experience and opinion and its being tossed aside, the goal here should be to as I said proactively investigate the possibilities for our quilled ones.

I am very happy your tumbleweed is doing well as I love all animals with a deep passion, however with animals were so little is truly know we need very open minds to find anything which can help us improve their over longevity and health as generations pass.

Once again despite what others think this is not an attack merely I believe the public viewers shouldn't click this topic and see an admin dismissed what this tragic poster mentions from their vet and yes someone as well respected (I do respect the long term hedgehog breeding of the past and products which Nancy made and her continued rescue efforts) says something even just stating their opinion on it, others follow it as law so I only say to tread with caution, in some situations I think Neosporin is a good potential ointment to use however like everything in this word should be treaded on lightly not all wounds, cuts, and injuries are the same and carries a risk to say well most of the time this is safe so its okay.

Once more research what I'm saying and ask physicians for humans, and get multiple doctor opinions, I network and inquire about substances used for my animals even if a vet tells me I get a second opinion and sometimes a third cause even a skilled and talented doctor/vet is mistaken at times.

To the OP I do not wish to continue a debate here any longer and apologize to you, please understand I want your message to carry strength for the tragic loss of your quilled one and am deeply sorry you had such a short time with your hedgehog they are wonderful companions.

To the admins again I am not doing anything more then voicing concern which you are in turn taking personal, for that part understand I only am thinking of the betterment of hedgehogs and animal-kind in general, their health and happiness is like your my priority however I know that 5 years ago half of the things now not recommended were recommended then and i believe in another 5 years there will be more not recommended then that is now, so I remain open minded to all information to better advance care for hedgehogs.

I think you can understand that, when your so well known and respected people take your words nearly as law on the subject and that can be dangerous at times, other times it can be wonderful.


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## KTH5 (Mar 2, 2010)

I'm really sorry for your loss Chris, but I can, unfortunately relate to this kind of problem with neosporin. My hedgehog, Kipper, ate some neosporin and is now in critical condition with his kidney and liver failing and he had chewed off his feet due to a harsh reaction after taking the neosporin. With all these hedgehog-related problems stemming off of neosporin, I don't know how safe it is to be giving hedgehogs this, even if the chance for having harsh side effects are rare - it's still ever possible


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## LarryT (May 12, 2009)

So sorry for your loss, big hugs.


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

JustOnePost said:


> Nancy said:
> 
> 
> > I'm very sorry for your loss.
> ...


Tim, the babies wounds as shown in the picture, were not puncture wounds nor piercings but minor little scraps that a tiny amount of neo or polysporin is not going to hurt. My vet recommends polysporin (as did I) as do many vets all over Canada and US.

When replying we also have to consider everything that the poster says which is what I replied to. The OP wrote "I brought him to the vet the next day after putting Neosporin on his nose as recommended in the forum." That advice was given on Feb 15 so based on what the poster has said, hedgie must have been taken to the vet on Feb 16 or 17 and died just over a week later. Logically, one application of neosporin a week previously should not have been the cause of his death when he had been treated with vet advised methods during the rest of the time. My reply was based on all of the information given as well as the timeline. It was also meant to try and make the op feel better and not beat himself up over using what numerous people suggested.


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## ReginasMommy (Apr 13, 2011)

I'm so sorry  He was an adorable little guy, and it is obvious how much you loved him. *hugs*


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## lehaley (Jun 25, 2011)

I'm so very sorry for your loss.  

I know that this may be easier said than done, but please try not to feel guilty about this and don't let it keep you from giving another hedgie a loving home. As many people have already mentioned, we as hedgehog owners and even vets don't know everything there is to know about our domesticated hedgehog buddies just yet. It seems like there's a lot of learning as we go/trial and error when it comes to their care. And even if something is deemed correct and safe by everyone involved, there are always risks or a slight chance that a problem may occur. Unfortunately there are always those few exceptions to the rule.


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## chrisbourke (Feb 15, 2012)

Dear everyone,

Thank you all so incredibly much for your posts. 
It truly means so much to my girlfriend and I.
We miss Guillermo dearly but we are blessed to have had his company.

I did not mean to start any conflicts between anyone.
I take all the advice I'm given and check it against other sources I can find, and every bit helps.

May we remind ourselves, we're all posting to help each other with a good heart.
No one has foul intentions that I've come across on this forum.

Please understand that in no way did I intend to sound like I was assigning blame to anyone or looking for the source of any good or bad information.
I simply wanted to make this occurrence known so people can be cautious, if Neosporin was in fact the cause of Guillermo's death.

With that said, Neosporin is clearly a popular product among millions of humans and parents who use it on their children. 
While I am certainly aware of success stories on humans, as well as ones such as the story posted here about the hedgehogs leg, any substance can react differently with different subjects.
Once again, there is a perfectly valid point made that this may not have had anything to do with Guillermo's death, the vet made this claim based on what looked most reasonable after I brought him in :/

We are terribly saddened by his loss, but we gave him all the love and care we had. 
I wish he could have spent a little more time with us. He brightened every waking minute we had with him, and he will be remembered.

Thank you all for all your help,
and please, thank each other for taking time to post to this my thread and the rest of this forum. 
Everyone is doing their best to help!

R.I.P. Guillermo :/
Love you little man


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

Please don't feel that your post was the cause of any conflicts. You simply got caught up in a personal issue against myself and the other admins and mods on this forum and the sad situation of the loss of your wonderful little boy should not have been used in this way.

I also do not feel that you were assigning blame nor do I think anyone else took it that way. Neosporin has been and is widely recommended on all forums and lists. Some people even recommend pain relief and have used it successfully even though it is highly recommended against using.

When we loose one of our little quilly friends, or any beloved pet, we all beat ourselves up over what we might have done wrong, or could have done differently or better. Everyone does it, even when there is a cut and dried confirmed beyond anyone's control cause of death.



> May we remind ourselves, we're all posting to help each other with a good heart.
> No one has foul intentions that I've come across on this forum.


You are absolutely right. Everyone here tries to help and we are all deeply saddened by the passing of your beautiful little boy.

Hugs to both you and your girlfriend.


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## hanhan27 (May 12, 2011)

I'm so sorry to hear you lost your quilled friend.  Try not to beat yourself up too much - you did what any good hedgie parent would do by noticing a problem, coming here for advice and reacting appropriately to the situation. Guillermo was a lucky little guy to have you and I hope you decide to get another hog. *Hugs*


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## PJM (May 7, 2010)

I'm so very sorry about Guillermo.


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## Tabbikat (Dec 30, 2011)

I am so sorry about your loss! Thanks for sharing! ...hugs!


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