# California ownership



## evanwarwick

Hello,

I live in California and would still like to be able to own a hedgehog. I know where to get one, but it will have to be out of state. My only concern with this is that I will not be able to find a vet if my hedgehog gets sick. Is this a deal breaker with regards to proper care? Does anybody have experience with this?

I realize they are illegal here by default, I don't much care about the legality, just wanting to know about the vet situation.

Thanks


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## abbys

Short answer: Yes, it's a deal breaker not to have proper medical care available.

Longer answer: Hedgehogs are unique and require a vet to have specialized knowledge. If you were to take a hedgehog to a regular vet they could only treat it based on their knowledge of more common animals, which could turn out to be detrimental for a hedgie.

Even longer answer: Because they are illegal, any vet you do contact may be required by law to confiscate the hedgehog. From there, they will either be moved to another state or destroyed. The vet may also be required to report you, so you could also face a penalty for illegal importation of a hedgehog into the state, and possession. Importing a hedgehog means you will be putting its life at risk from day one. Whether you care about the legality or not, think about what's best for the animal.


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## evanwarwick

Thanks for being honest.

Though, I am curious how often the typical hedgehog will need medical care? Like, most cats will never need to visit a vet in their lifetime other than to be fixed, but some do. Is it like that, or is it very common for them to need routine visits?


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## abbys

Ideally they should be seen once a year for a checkup, where they'll listen to their lungs/heart (or try to), weigh them, look at their skin. The basics.

Tooth and intestinal problems, as well as hibernation attempts, upper respiratory infections and cancers are fairly common. Mites are really common, and a good example of when treatment by a regular vet can be harmful - Ivermectin is an antiparasitic that's frequently used on dogs and cats, but it can be lethal for hedgehogs. Even many exotic vets aren't aware of that, so it's just that much more important to have a knowledgeable vet you trust.

During my first year of hedgie ownership we saw the vet about six times. Half of those were the result of my paranoia and nothing was actually wrong, but the legitimate visits were for his first annual checkup, a mild GI tract infection, and a respiratory infection.


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## GoodandPlenty

> I realize they are illegal here by default, I don't much care about the legality, just wanting to know about the vet situation.


I am completely, 100% with you on this --- but:

You have to have access to a vet. And not just any vet; one that has a specific interest in exotic mammals. I don't know the situation out there. Maybe it's a wink, wink kind of thing where nobody follows this particular law. That's true for lots of laws that are only used against people when it is convenient to do so and even professional people safely flout them. However, if that is not the case in CA, you are extremely unlikely to find a vet willing to gamble their entire professional career and you could be reported and investigated for merely making an inquiry.

It is inevitable that you will need a vet at some point and that the hedgehog would killed or allowed to die for something that could otherwise easily be treated. Just not worth the risk, IMO. Laws do not get changed because people follow them but I think you're just stuck on this one.

If you live close to a border state, then some options might open up.?

Sophie needed a vet this year. It was not an option. She'll need a complete blood panel next year to compare markers and determine with actual data that her condition is still good or if we need to make adjustments.


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## Annie&Tibbers

You may be able to be licensed as a temporary caregiver to a rescued hedgehog on its way to be transported out-of-state. Any hedgehog you meet in that circumstance will be in bad shape and desperately need someone to give it love and care; given that they are illegal in the state, it would also be ideal if a rescuer was knowledgeable enough about hedgehogs to advocate to vets on its behalf. You can contact your local vets, SPCA, humane society, etc to learn about how to set this up.

Hedgehogs are legal in Nevada; check for knowledgeable vets there.

As for how often hedgehogs need care: read this forum for a month. See how often problems come up. See how people deal with being far away from a vet. Hedgehogs are prey animals that are very good at hiding symptoms; by the time the owner notices that something is wrong, it's often a "Get them to the vet today or tomorrow" situation. They also can go downhill very quickly: a case of the sniffles can degenerate into a full-blown life-threatening URI over a weekend, or refusal to eat or diarrhea can lead to immediate rapid weight-loss and death within days.

Some hedgehogs are more prone to problems than others. Hedgehogs purchased from pet stores or backyard-breeders have more health issues than long-term breeders dedicated to improving species health, but even then sometimes an unhealthy hoglet is born. It is a pretty standard part of the breeder/application process to tell them what vet you have lined up, and how you will cope with medical treatment; I think most of the breeders on this forum are sufficiently paranoid about their tiny spikeballs having good, safe homes that they would be extremely reluctant to sell to someone who will take them to an illegal territory.

An experienced hedgehog-owner will be in a much different situation than a first-time owner; I would've hated to be confined to secrecy and limited care during my first few months of figuring things out.


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## Annie&Tibbers

And: considering California once had a governor run on a platform of legalizing ferrets, and another on installing full-length doors in public restroom stalls (both lost to the Governator), you could start political activism to legalize them as pets. Stranger things have made it into the popular concern and eventually law within the state.

It looks like someone started a school project dedicated to the cause. A few scattered petitions exist on sites; it looks like each has on order of 1,000 signatories. The initiative system says that if you can get 5% of the voting public to sign on, you can get it put on the ballot as a formal proposition.

The most recent letter from Fish & Game says that hedgehogs are banned because anything in the order Insectivora are outlawed; hedgehogs are actually of the order Erinaceomorpha. You could argue that more modern science has deemed hedgehogs are NOT insectivores, but rather an omnivorous scavenger, so the basis for the ban is flawed.


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## Lilysmommy

How far are you from a border? Are you going to be willing and able to drive however many hours that is in the event that you suddenly find a hedgehog laboring to breathe, suddenly experiencing heavy blood loss (in urine or poop), or completely unable to walk? There's plenty of situations with hedgehog health that require immediate emergency vet care. If you can't provide that, no matter what the animal is, you shouldn't have one (IMO). While these situations aren't everyday things, they do happen, and I don't believe you should get an animal and just hope for the best that nothing like that will happen for you. 

Besides emergency care, hedgehogs are prone to other health issues that usually need follow-up visits: skin infections, tumors/cancer, mouth issues, UTIs, URIs, etc. Are you also willing/able to make the drive to a knowledgeable & safe vet possibly several times in a month if there's an issue going on that requires it?


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## Mhuff

*A California Hedgie Owner*

I live in southern California and I own a hedgehog. Law enforcement does not actively seek out to seize exotics such as hedgehogs and ferrets except in the case of breeding/selling. As far as vets go, there are many throughout the state that are very well qualified and will not report to authorities. They care more about the health and well-being of the animal; they know reporting an illegal animal will most likely lead to it being held in a holding facility with limited contact for months or being put down. If you are in the Los Angeles area, the vet I recommend and use is at the Exotic Animal Care Center in Pasadena, CA. If not, here is a list of other vets who will treat hedgies: http://www.hedgehogwelfare.org/vets_by_state.asp?s=CA

If you do not live within a reasonable distance to one of these exotic vets, I would seriously discourage you from purchasing a hedgehog. If an emergency occurs, your hedgehog will suffer necessarily.

Good luck!


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## raurora

Why do you want one? It seems like a lot of time and effort for an animal that is generally very picky. What if it doesnt turn out how you expect? Vets are a MUST. I have seen a vet once a week for the past 2 weeks and both were needed. Even if you can find a vet that may not report you, what if they do? What if when you post pictures of it someone reports you? You have to think about that pet, it isnt what you want, it is what the animal wants.


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## evanwarwick

Mhuff said:


> I live in southern California and I own a hedgehog. Law enforcement does not actively seek out to seize exotics such as hedgehogs and ferrets except in the case of breeding/selling. As far as vets go, there are many throughout the state that are very well qualified and will not report to authorities. They care more about the health and well-being of the animal; they know reporting an illegal animal will most likely lead to it being held in a holding facility with limited contact for months or being put down. If you are in the Los Angeles area, the vet I recommend and use is at the Exotic Animal Care Center in Pasadena, CA. If not, here is a list of other vets who will treat hedgies: http://www.hedgehogwelfare.org/vets_by_state.asp?s=CA
> 
> If you do not live within a reasonable distance to one of these exotic vets, I would seriously discourage you from purchasing a hedgehog. If an emergency occurs, your hedgehog will suffer necessarily.
> 
> Good luck!


Thanks so much for this list! The closest one I found is in Pleasant Hill, 2.5 hours from where I live now, and an hour from my parent's house if I happened to be there. I am willing to make drives like this once a year for checkups, and if something happened to my hedgehog I would be able to give its health priority over MOST school obligations (save for my graduation recital and a few huge performance dates, I's a music student). That actually sounds doable. What do you guys think?

I want to get a hedgehog because I love how exotic they are, I spend a lot of time in my room writing music and would like a little animal to pet and play with in between ideas, and they are freaking adorable.

Think I'm a good prospective owner?


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## abbys

It speaks to your responsibility that you asked your question beforehand, so as long as you're confident with the vet trips and bills... sure! 

Keep browsing the forums to get a general idea of what to expect in terms of needs and health and behavior expectations, and read through this book (tons of info and super helpful): http://www.westcoasthedgehogs.com/files/hedgehogbook/index.html

Also be prepared for a potentially costly start-up. I only mention this because I remember how tight money was in college and I wouldn't have been able to afford a hedgie. Initial cage, accessories, food, and heating costs all together can easily pass $300. It's also recommended that you build up a vet fund for emergencies. I've needed my ER fund twice so far and it was a lifesaver.


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## nikki

You say you want an hedgehog to pet and play with. You do realize that many hedgehogs do not like to be petted and they really don't play? They sleep all day and if you wake them up they usually just want to go back to sleep.


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## Lilysmommy

Agreed with Nikki...before making the decision that you're definitely going to get one, please do a lot of reading in the Behavior forum. A lot of people get a hedgehog and realize it's not really what they expected. Many of the videos on youtube can be misleading - for many hedgehogs, it takes weeks or months of work to get them to the point where they'll let you handle them with quills down, or don't mind being pet. Some won't even like being pet, and explorers often hate being handled at all and will be extremely squirmy. Cuddlers may be more willing to hold still, but usually like to be covered up by something (blanket or hedgie bag) to sleep in your lap, so there's still not usually a lot of petting involved unless you can convince them to put up with it.

Not trying to scare you off, I swear...just give you some more things to consider while making your decision! Behavior & personality is a big one that causes a lot of newer owners to end up rehoming or returning their hedgehog to the breeder.


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## Annie&Tibbers

Ferrets are also exotic-illegals in California, and substantially more playful.


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## DesertHedgehogs

Good tempered, healthy hedgies are most likely to be found with a reputable breeder. However USDA licensed breeders are required to supply information about the buyers to the USDA and aren't allowed to sell them where they are illegal. So unless you are prepared to lie to your breeder about where the hedgehog is going or you are buying from a pet shop/craigslist type place you may not find one.


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## ceopet

Agreed if you want a pet just to play with it a hedgie might not be right for you. Most hedgies don't like being petted and will only put up with minimal handling. I am not saying this to discouge you because are neat little critters, but they just aren't particularily social even if you work with them a lot they might never be like the ones you see on youtube or animal planet.

If you are willing to drive only once a year to the vets that far you also really want to reconsider. A lot of times they do need follow up care with the issues that they have and that will require many trips within a months time.

If you are looking for a pet that likes playing and seeks human company have you thought about rats? They are legal in Cali and aren't a typical pet. You'll have to at least adopt a pair because they are highly social creatures. They arecrepuscular_ meaning they are primarily active at dawn and dusk, but they really don't mind being woken up in the middle of the day for some attention and snacks. Just keep in mind that they have a very short life span typically 2-3 years and can sometimes rake up vet bills during that time. 
_


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## Annie&Tibbers

Degus and sugar gliders are more exotics that are illegal in California that are substantially more playful and social than hedgehogs.

Chinchillas are legal, playful, and nocturnal.
Iguanas are legal, bond well with humans, and have complicated picky temperature/lighting/humidity restrictions if the environmental challenges of a hedgehog are appealing.


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## evanwarwick

ceopet said:


> If you are willing to drive only once a year to the vets that far you also really want to reconsider. A lot of times they do need follow up care with the issues that they have and that will require many trips within a months time.[/I]


Honestly, I'm going to have to consider this for some time before making my decision. The idea of follow up care at this point in my life seems exhausting. Not sure if I could be the best owner with regards to special medical care, though I could make a drive every once in a while. Hmm.



Lilysmommy said:


> A lot of people get a hedgehog and realize it's not really what they expected. Many of the videos on youtube can be misleading - for many hedgehogs, it takes weeks or months of work to get them to the point where they'll let you handle them with quills down, or don't mind being pet. Some won't even like being pet, and explorers often hate being handled at all and will be extremely squirmy. Cuddlers may be more willing to hold still, but usually like to be covered up by something (blanket or hedgie bag) to sleep in your lap, so there's still not usually a lot of petting involved unless you can convince them to put up with it.


I honestly hadn't considered the months I would have to work with the hedgehog to get it to sit with me. It's not all that daunting a thought, but I will certainly give the decision some time.

However, allow me to clarify one thing. I am perfectly content with a little hedgehog in a blanket just sitting with me while I am working. I like to set up on my bed and compose/produce with my laptop and headphones in, so it would be good for both of us to just sit there and enjoy the company.

I already have a reputable breeder in mind. Is it likely they'd be able to guarantee the hedgehog I receive will be a cuddler as opposed to an explorer, or is that always a roll of the dice?


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## Annie&Tibbers

If you get the hedgehog as an adult, it is more likely their personality is established, although even then it may change as you get it home.

My little hedgehog's personality is almost identical to his mother's. I don't know how unusual that is.


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## Lilysmommy

They won't be able to guarantee, but by the time they're sending a baby home, they usually have a bit of an idea on personality one way or the other. However, there's always quilling to get through - and that can cause personality changes once in awhile, though it seems to be pretty rare. It definitely wouldn't hurt to see if they have older hedgehogs available - You can quite often find hedgehogs 6 months - 1 year that just didn't work out for their old owner. By then, personality has usually become pretty clear, so you won't have to worry about a sudden switch-up.

I'm really glad that you're taking the time to ask questions & really consider all of the information we're dumping on you!  It's something that not nearly enough people do, so either way, thank you for giving the proper consideration to the decision.


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## cassiebudi87

Hello everyone!

I live in California, (specifically in Los Angeles) and I was wondering if anyone knew the list of cities where hedgehogs are legal as pets? I do want one and I found a breeder who sells on the west coast, but only sells to cities where they are legal, I cant seem to find a direct answer, so I was hoping someone knew? Thanks so much!


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## Lilysmommy

As far as I know, there are no legal cities in California - hedgehog ownership is illegal in the entire state, as is ownership of most (pretty much all) other exotics. Supposedly things are very lax as far as the law goes, but in my opinion, that is NOT a reason to go ahead and get an illegal pet anyway. There's always the chance that you will be the one law enforcement decides to go ahead & enforce the law with, and ultimately, it's the animal that suffers the most. It's simply not fair or responsible to risk an animal in that situation. Unfortunately, it'd probably be best for you to hold off on getting a hedgehog until you're living in a legal state. Other than Arizona, where hedgehogs are also illegal, the rest of the west coast states are all legal to own hedgehogs in.


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## misslindsay

Mhuff said:


> I live in southern California and I own a hedgehog. Law enforcement does not actively seek out to seize exotics such as hedgehogs and ferrets except in the case of breeding/selling. As far as vets go, there are many throughout the state that are very well qualified and will not report to authorities. They care more about the health and well-being of the animal; they know reporting an illegal animal will most likely lead to it being held in a holding facility with limited contact for months or being put down. If you are in the Los Angeles area, the vet I recommend and use is at the Exotic Animal Care Center in Pasadena, CA. If not, here is a list of other vets who will treat hedgies: http://www.hedgehogwelfare.org/vets_by_state.asp?s=CA
> 
> If you do not live within a reasonable distance to one of these exotic vets, I would seriously discourage you from purchasing a hedgehog. If an emergency occurs, your hedgehog will suffer necessarily.
> 
> Good luck!


I know this post is super old - but I was wondering if anyone has been to any of these California vets with any luck recently - and could possibly put me at ease in case we need to take ours to them? (We recently moved with our hedgehog from Florida to Cali - driving!)


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