# Kitten Food - Good or Bad? AND Concern w/ Exoskeleton



## sdenney (Jul 13, 2011)

So today at work a new hedgie owner purchased a bag of Chicken Soup for the Cat Lover's Soul Kitten Formula. She has actually been doing research on this site, but I wondered why she was buying kitten food instead of the recommended Light or Senior as highlighted on our cat food list. Is there a certain time when kitten food is necessary? Maybe for a younger hedgie? I know young hedgehogs need higher fat, but what about the higher protein in kitten food?

I think this food has...
*Protein: 34% Fat: 22%*

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Also, another recent concern that has come up... The guy who gave me my hedgehog said to feed mealworms and crickets very sparingly as a treat because the exoskeletons of these types of insects is tough on their digestive system. After telling this to a co-worker, she agreed and said it would probably be better to feed an insect that does NOT have a tough exoskeleton (she suggested grubs, caterpillars, and other worms).

Does anyone know of any digestive issues with this? What other types of bugs to you feed your hedgies, and how often? I was planning to feed a few small mealies a few times a week because he runs in his wheel all night and currently eats Innova Reduced Fat mixed with Wellness Indoor Health (I chose this over Wellness Healthy Weight because Healthy Weight is more for weight loss and Indoor Health is for maintaining a healthy weight).

I told the guy what I had read on the hedgehog forums I had been doing research on, and he said hedgies who eat a lot of these insects with tougher exoskeletons probably don't live as long as one who does not eat them.

This was definitely something I wanted to discuss here.


----------



## Guest (Jul 30, 2011)

*Re: Kitten Food - Good or Bad?*

Higher fat for a young hedgehog under 6 month is recommend I believe HHC's consensus is between 15 - 20%

This higher fat content way also be needed in a very active hedgehog that runs a lot


----------



## sdenney (Jul 13, 2011)

Is it okay to have more than 30% protein? I keep hearing/reading, "hedgehog needs a high protein, low calorie diet," but is 30% really high? What is TOO much protein, or is it different for all hedgies? Cats and ferrets have so much more than that, which is why I was asking. I think I was told the levels in dog food is actually more appropriate, but due to kibble size, that's why we all use cat food.


----------



## CanadienHedgie (Feb 4, 2011)

sdenney said:


> Is it okay to have more than 30% protein? I keep hearing/reading, "hedgehog needs a high protein, low calorie diet," but is 30% really high? What is TOO much protein, or is it different for all hedgies? Cats and ferrets have so much more than that, which is why I was asking. I think I was told the levels in dog food is actually more appropriate, but due to kibble size, that's why we all use cat food.


You want the protein to be from 30%-33%. I prefer not to go above 32% If there is too much protein, it causes liver or kidney problems (I can't remember which).


----------



## Guest (Jul 30, 2011)

As far back as I can tell hedgehogs eat live mealworms and crickets without a problem the only digestion problem has been with freeze dried crickets, in addition those other insects you meantioned aren't available as easily to my knowledge.

Higher protein can cause fatty liver disease or kidney issues (its one or the other) in a hedgehog if I am not mistaken the content recommendation is not to go past 32% if at all possible.

I cannot say I am an expert and I am certain the more experienced breeders/owners will be along with their thoughts, but the exoskeleton thing I don't know anything about.


----------



## CanadienHedgie (Feb 4, 2011)

For the other insects, this is what I feed:

*Their daily food consists of:*
-A mixture of 4 Blue Buffalo foods (1 chicken flavored, 1 turkey flavored, 1 duck flavored, 1 extra).
-2 or 3 live crickets (I either rip the legs off and put them in the cage or leave the legs on and put them in the tub).
-10 crickets that are thawed and hidden in the cage for them to "hunt".
-About 4 live mealworms, as a treat when they unball.
-3 grasshoppers that are thawed and hidden in the cage for them to "hunt".
-1 Shell-less snail.
-2 frozen then thawed pinkies a week.

Then I make my own foods, that they get as well. I currently have 7 different types and they get a different one every day. I have chicken, turkey, rabbit, bison, venison, lamb, goat and duck. You can feed cooked, unseasoned meats as well.

Hedgehogs are insectivores, they are meant to eat insects. So I don't think there would be a problem with digesting the exoskeleton. Also, the exoskeletons, help keep the teeth health (according to my vet). I also feed, super worms, wax worms, caterpillars and Canadian nightcrawlers when I can get them. Just be sure you are feeding live insects. Do not feed freeze dried insects, and they aren't easily digestible.


----------



## sdenney (Jul 13, 2011)

I thought the same thing. They are INSECTIVORES made to eat INSECTS! You would think their bodies would be developed for eating and digesting insects if that is what they eat in the wild. It kind of worried me so I haven't given him any insects yet  my co-worker did give him a small mealworm yesterday. I think it might have been his first because it took him a minute to realize it was food being dangled in front of his face. 

I just became really cautious after he commented about hedgies eating too many hard exoskeletons not living as long as a hedgie that doesn't eat them. I don't know the extent of his knowedge, but I know he breeds reptiles (bearded dragons and monotor lizards) and worked at a pet store with the largest selection of animals and exotic animals in this area. I'm not really a fan of pet stores that sell pets...


----------



## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

Sounds like he's going more with his knowledge of reptiles...From what I've read of bearded dragons, they need softer bodied insects because they do have a hard time digesting harder exoskeletons. That's not really a problem with hedgies though. They need the chitin in the exoskeleton of mealies, and the exoskeletons of insects add needed fiber to their diet. Like Canadien said, it's only freeze-dried mealies/crickets that cause problems, and that's really only with feeding too many at once. Better safe than sorry though, and live or regular frozen insects are definitely best.


----------



## LizardGirl (Aug 25, 2008)

Like Kelsey mentioned, the main concern with exoskeletons is dried insects where practically all there is to them is the shell. I've only ever noticed trouble digesting the chitin shell when you feed a LOT of worms - like 30+ a night. Inky is currently getting around 20-30 each night (he needs a lot of fat to keep weight on) and I only ever see undigested pieces (and even then, only that) when I give him more than 30.

As for the kitten food, I wouldn't be concerned. People worry so much about specific formulas, really, as long as it falls under general accepted ingredients and analysis, no worries.


----------



## MissC (Nov 15, 2010)

My vet told me the chitin found in insects is actually good for hedgies as it is a good source of fibre in a non-kibble hedgie diet AND it helps control tartar buildup.


----------



## sdenney (Jul 13, 2011)

Okay excellent. Thank you guys so much, you have all really helped so much! I'm going to buy some small mealies today at work. We sell refrigerated mealies in a resealable container. Last night I sat down in our sofa/chair (wide armchair thingy lol) and laid a blanket out in my lap and let my hedgie explore. I was holding him for a bit and letting him crawl comfortably from one palm to the other and through my fingers. I want him to get used to my hands! It would be nice to feed some mealies. I bet he would love me then! LOL!


----------



## SaltAndExtraPepper (Mar 4, 2011)

It looks like things here are just about wrapped up, which is just as well cause I didn't have much to add with what was already discussed.  I guess I'm just in a talkative mood. So, if you don't mind I just wanted to say some things here >__<



sdenney said:


> I want him to get used to my hands! It would be nice to feed some mealies. I bet he would love me then! LOL!


I think that'd be a great way to make him view your hands as Bringers of Good :lol: I hope that works out smoothly! 
I also agree that the issue with freeze-dried bugs being hard to digest is only if they are fed in excess (or if there is an unforeseen issue with the hedgie that makes them difficult for that individual) I think I have mentioned before elsewhere, I would give my hedgehog live bugs if he would eat them, but he will not touch anything but his freezedried mealies.  However, as with any treat they are not given to him too much at a time. They are probably more in the middle of his food pyramid.

Also, I would love to say, sdenny, I love your signature pic. All of your pets are beautiful


----------



## Guest (Jul 30, 2011)

SaltAndExtraPepper said:


> It looks like things here are just about wrapped up, which is just as well cause I didn't have much to add with what was already discussed.  I guess I'm just in a talkative mood. So, if you don't mind I just wanted to say some things here >__<
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I would keep trying the live for gut feeding my Feral wouldn't touch live at first, sometimes it takes them awhile before they take to even their most favorite of foods


----------



## sdenney (Jul 13, 2011)

Thank you, in regards to my signature! I love my pets  they really are beautiful!

I bought some mealies today and tried giving them to my hedgie tonight after waking him up. I'm trying to get his schedule a little closer to mine. He usually isn't up until well after midnight and I want him to be up around the time I get home from work (10PM) to when I go to bed (anywhere from midnight to 1-2AM depending on what the next day's schedule is). It took him a little while to figure out it was food I was dangling in front of his nose. He is still a little slow at taking them from me, but tonight is the first night he's been given mealies so I imagine it will take some time before he realizes they are a delicious treat!

Oh yeah, another thing I was wondering about... What's the longest I should interact or hold my hedgie? Is there a recommended time frame? Do they stress out easily? Whenever he puffs up, I feel bad because it feels like his heart is beating a mile a minute but I think that's just vibrations from the sounds he makes.


----------

