# Dig Box



## [email protected] (Aug 23, 2019)

The wheel broke.

Yep, the bolt stripped and it can no longer be fastened. So, today or tomorrow, my uncle will visit and see if he can fix the wheel. The wheel broke Wednesday or Thursday. 

In the mean time, I created a dig box for Igor. He doesn't urinate or number two if he doesn't have a wheel, so I immediately panicked and got scared that he might get compacted. 

I bought a largish container with a lid a while ago, in mind of a dig box separate of the cage, but never found any proper bedding for dig material.

When the wheel broke, I carved a entrance big enough for Igor into the front, tore up two shirts of fine, and shredded some egg cartons for material to dig in. I threw in some worms, ham, and a ****roach for him. 

He immediately took to it, and literally seeked out all of the insects in there. He even urinated and pooped in there too! (Which I'm so glad about.)

I switched the ****roach with kibble, since I can't give him a roach every day, only once a week He doesn't go for the kibble as much, but loves the ham. I might even cook some chicken for him to go into the box. 

Only bad thing I worry about is him not excreting enough. The amount on his wheel is a lot more than what I find in the box, nut atleast its something.


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

Why can he only have 1 roache a week?

If you make sure your room has no where he can go under and get stuck then you could have him run around for an hour before going to be to get a little more exercise.
Your dig box sounds great!

The ham don't feed it too much, the way ham is processed it can contain a lot of salt and other preservatives, which isn't too good for our pets.
Plain cooked chicken is a good idea too.
Which worms are you feeding? If mealworms be careful how many you feed because they can strip calcium from their body. 

It's great the dig box seems to be making an okay switch for the wheel while you wait for it to see if its fixable.


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## [email protected] (Aug 23, 2019)

I feed him adult dubia roaches, so they're quite big, and expensive if I am to buy enough to give him one every day, and I don't have a big enough container or space to house 31 dubia roaches each month, and I'm scared they'll breed, and they stink and are messy.

I only buy 5 every month, 1 for every week. It requires less resources, and they are pretty big.

I don't give him a lot of mealworms, only 2 every day, so 14 a week, as suggested. 

and thank you! the wheel is fixed again, but I'm gonna get a temporary new wheel out of johburg end of this month since I cant rely on the wheel I currently have.

And im done with the ham, didn't give him too much, only enough to keep him interested in the box


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

Can you not get 15 medium dubai roaches instead and feed 2 in a week? They are great for nutrients that's all.
Having them breed isnt that bad, in the long run if you learn about breeding them it could work out cheaper for you and you get more to feed igor!

I'm glad the wheel is okay now definitely a good idea to replace it, I love you make **** dig box though!


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## Brooke2Lancelot (Sep 9, 2019)

I could...I’ll speak to my mom about it, buy a bigger box for them. 
Igor will definitely thank you for making me consider this 😂 he loves his roaches.


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

Aw Holly loves hers too but I cant breed them because my mum wont allow live insects in the house longer than the 24hours gut loading where you feed them live so you can do some researching and find out how to breed them then igor gets more and its less money for you. Both of you win. Good luck!!


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## Brooke2Lancelot (Sep 9, 2019)

Thank you! I’ll try my best!


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

I can try help you find some the info if you struggle, just say! There may be a lot of people who know on here!


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## Brooke2Lancelot (Sep 9, 2019)

Thank you, my mom said it’s fine if I buy 15 every month, so we’ll get a bigger container at the end of the month for the 15. I’ll ask if I have questions on the way. 

One early question though, for water, am I allowed to use water crystals?


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

Yea water crystles or some people use soaked tissues its your choice which you want to use.


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## Emc (Nov 18, 2018)

Unless your house is very hot, youre going to need a heater if you want dubias to breed. They prefer hotter temperatures; and most will not breed unless they're kept at ~30C. So if it is something you want to venture into, you will not only need a larger enclosure but also a heat set up (inc. thermostat) to go with it. If it is something you do, I'd recommend using water crystals. With the heat they require, tissue will dry up incredibly quickly so crystals are best. 

You can feed more than 2 mealworms a day, by the way. As far as I can tell those guidelines on restricting mealworms to 1-2 a day are heavily outdated. It depends on the hedgehog, but they can eat anywhere from 10-30. Mealworms also breed super easily and dont require supplemental heat. Ofc, they shouldn't be your hogs bulk source of nutrition - but I just wanted to mention that you could technically feed more mealworms than what you're currently feeding with no issues and if you wanted to save a buck or two you could easily breed them on your own.


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

Theres actually still a restriction depending where you look, mealworms have been know to take calcium from the body because of how unbalanced the Cal is so mealworms should either be avoided or used springing because even gut loading with high calcium veg (like you can to balance crickets) it still doesn't balance the mealworms. Also the chitin is very high. That's what I have read and been told anyway.
See picture - its the last one


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## Emc (Nov 18, 2018)

With a hedgehog who is eating a complete diet (i.e cat food), the calcium : phosphorous ratio issues associated with mealworms don't overly concern me. It'd be a problem if a hog was eating a diet of predominately mealworms of course, but as part of a balanced diet, I don't see how they'd be a problem at all - certainly not to the extent of avoiding them entirely. 

The attachment wont open for me though, so I cant see it!


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## Aj.t (Jan 29, 2019)

The chitin is what heals beak down the exoskeletons in insects, so I wouldn’t worry about there being ‘too much’ chitin.


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## Emc (Nov 18, 2018)

Aj.t said:


> The chitin is what heals beak down the exoskeletons in insects, so I wouldn't worry about there being 'too much' chitin.


Chitin is what _makes up_ the exoskeletons in insects. Its high in fibre and there is concern that feeding too much of x insect that has a high level of chitin in their exoskeleton could potentially lead to issues with impaction/constipation (and it is a real thing to be wary of; so too much chitin is a possibility).

Chitinase is an enzyme that is responsible for breaking down chitin. But chitin itself does not break down chitin; at least to my knowledge it doesnt?...


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

Emc said:


> With a hedgehog who is eating a complete diet (i.e cat food), the calcium : phosphorous ratio issues associated with mealworms don't overly concern me. It'd be a problem if a hog was eating a diet of predominately mealworms of course, but as part of a balanced diet, I don't see how they'd be a problem at all - certainly not to the extent of avoiding them entirely.
> 
> The attachment wont open for me though, so I cant see it!


I dont use them for Holly because she doesn't even like them anyway.

To be fair - I'm not having a dig at Brooks but she is struggling with a properly balanced diet due to what she has available around her. Which is why I said to her not keep them at 14 a week.
She is working on it though with help so she is trying its not that easy because of what she can get.

Obviously for others it doesn't matter as much because they have a better range of things to get so the poor Cal isn't a huge a issue.



Aj.t said:


> The chitin is what heals beak down the exoskeletons in insects, so I wouldn't worry about there being 'too much' chitin.


I dont know much about chitin but what it says is "They have a high amount of chitin compared to overall body mass - Which is the indigestible exo-skeleton, and it is due to this that makes them not very high in nutrition"

I'll see if it works this time


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## Emc (Nov 18, 2018)

I have no idea why I cant open the attachment haha; i think its more so of an issue on my end?.. could you copy and paste the link maybe? Because I really would love to give it a read! 

The issue with poor Calcium : Phosphorous ratios is a concern amongst all animals who eat predominately insects (furry & non!). But i've always been told that its not something to be overly concerned about, so long as they are not the bulk source of the animals nutrition. So thats where I'm coming from, but i would still love to give other sources a read!


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## Aj.t (Jan 29, 2019)

Chitinase is an enzyme that is responsible for breaking down chitin. But chitin itself does not break down chitin; at least to my knowledge it doesnt?...[/QUOTE]
No you're right I was getting myself confused. But it's still organic animal matter which is exclusively what they would be eating in their wild state so I don't see why the chitinous exoskeleton would pose any threat. It's that loss of the enzymes when freeze drying worms that makes freeze dried worms potentially dangerous, but if the enzymes are present, they should do their jobs in breaking it down. But there's plenty of good qualities in exoskeletons that are beneficial for their nutrition as well. Right?


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## Emc (Nov 18, 2018)

I’ve actually heard this argument frequently in regard to dried insects being more difficulties to digest - but does anyone have the original source for this? 

It’s been something that’s crossed my mind a lot recently because I too believed it without question. But every source I’ve found thus far indicate that cooked insects (and drying process cook to some degree) are actually *easier* to digest. The enzyme needed to break down the chitin is present in the digestive system of hedgehogs, not the mealworm - so I don’t see how the freeze drying/drying process “destroys” the enzyme required for digestion when that enzyme wasn’t even present to begin with. 

My main concern with dried insects is that their dry so add that onto their high fiber intake and, in large enough amounts, you’re looking at a recipe for constipation. But I don’t believe it’s anything enzyme related - though id be totally open to hearing/reading sources that prove otherwise!

But yes; even though chitin is a naturally occurring part of their diet, too much can still potentially cause issues. I’m honestly not too sure how much of a risk it is, but it’s a concern nonetheless. I know there have been instances with other insectivorous species suffering impaction & constipation issues from eating too many insects high in chitin, so I’d assume it’s an applicable concern in hogs too.


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

I can't find the link I've looked but I lost it!! I'll see if I can find it though. 

I know that the freeze drying/drying or cooking gets rid of most or all of the chitin.
As far as I know the biggest issue with the mealworms being dried is the fact they are dry and that makes them cause problems because they haven't got a huge amount of nutrition to start with! 
Where are other insects like dubai roaches where there more nutrition the biggest issue with them going though those is that they loose their nutrition and then the same problem as the mealworms

Too much dry biscuit or dry anything really can cause issues with compaction.


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## Emc (Nov 18, 2018)

Ah no worries, if you can’t find it that’s okay - I’ll try to do some digging myself!

But do you have a source for the cooking/drying process destroying chitin in insects?... I’m not trying to prove you wrong haha; I am genuinely curious, because it’s a topic that I’ve always wondered about. I have a Leopard Gecko, and hamsters, so I have other insect-eating species and the only argument for being against dried insects in those communities that I’ve heard is like you said; they’re dry, so they can cause impaction issues and overall have poor nutrition. But it’s been only the hedgehog community that I’ve heard the argument for cooking processes destroying chitin - but I’ve never found the source.


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

I asked the person who told me but they lost the link as well. I think some digging is required, but I do remember the microwaves can remove chitin, so I'm not sure if its the heat or the microwaves that is affecting the chitin.


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## Emc (Nov 18, 2018)

It just seems to be a lot of conflicting info because if the chitin is the hardest part of the insect to digest, and assuming cooking breaks down the chitin (or even removes it entirely)... then shouldn't this make cooked easier to digest and like, totally go against 'dried insects are harder to digest'?...

I think the only issue with dried insects is when theyre fed in large quantities and especially if already part of a dry diet (kibble), then they can lead to issues with impaction. Personally, I think the whole "dried insects have no enzymes so makes them harder to digest" is likely a myth that someone passed along as fact along the way (unless anyone has sources to prove otherwise; in which case, i'd love to read them!). 

Anyway, i have no idea how i got here haha and am conscious of dragging this off topic. For the record; im not advocating dried insects being a replacement for live, so i hope it doesnt come across as that!


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

We seem very good at going off topic recently! But I'll see if I can find anything just because I want to know now! And then make a new thread about it!


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## Brooke2Lancelot (Sep 9, 2019)

Well then 😂 yes, in the summer, our house can get up to 39 degrees Celsius, so they might breed then. 
And thank you for the answer on the water crystals! I’ll buy some!

And since all the information, should I lower Igor’s worm intake to 7 a week? Just until I got the new Orijen food?


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

14 a week is fine for the diet he is has. Maybe look around and see if you can buy earth worm or calci worm(black solider fly larvea) to help balance it more they are good for calcium.
Earthworms are also great for protein.
And silkworms, they have an enzyme called serrapeptase which helps with absorbing calcium.

If you add them and once you change the biscuit to the origen then you can either keep to 14 week or use a bit more, but I'd still keep them restricted. To a small portion of his diet.


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## Brooke2Lancelot (Sep 9, 2019)

We just have one shop which sells insects here where I live..and my mom said no to shipping from other cities. The shop only has crickets, mealworms and dubias. 

When I go over to Orijen, is it ok if I do it 21 a week? 3 every night?


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## Ria (Aug 30, 2018)

Yea - gut load your roaches with high calcium veg like kale and broccoli to balance their Ca better.


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## Brooke2Lancelot (Sep 9, 2019)

Ok, thank you!


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