# New member with some questions!



## FUP10K (Jun 10, 2014)

Hey guys! I'm Brianna 
Me and my boyfriend are planning to get a hedgie toward the end of the summer (so, late july-early august)
I already have a breeder picked out, Kelly's Quills, but I did have a few questions!

C&C Cages... where did you guys find the cheapest supplies? I've only been able to find 16 packs from target for about $20 each... for the Coroplast, this place for $15 but I'm not sure how much shipping will cost...

I did also have a question about ferret nations; I currently have a ferret nation cage and am planning to make it a double-wide for my ferrets  I was wondering... would a set up like 
XX
XH
(X for ferrets, H for hedgehog)
work out? 
The hedgehog would be completely separated into its own thing on the bottom, only the ferret sections would be connected, but I just wanted to know if anyone thought there may be issues. 
(Again, it's not my ideal thought... it's more along the lines of if I can't quite figure out a large enough area for a c&c  )

FOR FEEDING
I feed my ferrets an all natural diet (Raw, to be specific) and I did read some things about people having success with Nature's Variety Insticts Raw food for cats + veggies and crickets/mealworms, but I was wondering how safe it is? 
I know the absolute wonders raw does for my ferrets, so I was just wondering if it were basically the same for hedgehogs  I'm not a big kibble fan... for any animal.

ALSO... I've already emailed Kelly and she hasn't quite gotten back to me yet, but I wanted a second opinion. I'm assuming it's better for the hedgehog that we visit a few times while they're young in order to help them be comfortable with us when we take them home, but how many visits should I plan to have? (Assuming my breeder is completely fine with me bothering her with visits lol) 
Also, how old would they have to be before I should visit?

That should be it 
Thanks guys!


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## Teddi4211 (Apr 30, 2014)

Okay, so I don't know about the C&C cages, but the ferret setup might be a problem. The scent may frighten the hedgehogs, since it would be a predator prey type of thing.

As for the food. Cooked is better than raw. Cat food is the healthiest, in all honesty. Any food on the recommended foods list is best, and best. The food should have meat as the first ingredient, not corn or anything unhealthy like that. Introduce every new food very slowly, as it can upset their system.

And a side note. My friend has ferrets and hedgehogs (not even in the same room), and before she got the hedgehog, she had the ferrets. Anyway, so their shampoo had tea tree oil in them, which is toxic to hedgehogs. I would just check your shampoo, because it nearly gave her a heart attack!

Hope everything works!

Foods List Link: http://www.hedgehogcentral.com/forums/12-diet-nutrition/23042-recommended-foods-list.html


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## NewHedgieOwner100 (May 31, 2014)

I 100% recommend going with a C&C cage. I have one for my hedgie and she loves it, it has a lot of room which hedgies love. I got my C&C squares from Kmart for $22 for about 48 squares which is about 6 cubes. This is the cheapest I could find. C&C cages are great because you can make them any shape and size. 

I got my coroplast from Home Depot for $10 a sheet. I'm not sure how big, but I did have to get quite a few sheets. 

As for food, I would go with any cat food that has 35% or higher protein and 15% or lower fat. I recommend Purina Naturals cat food. It has 38% protein and 13.5% fat. 

I'm not too sure about the frequent visits though. I would just purchase the headgehog as soon as you can and then start bonding with him/her in the comfort of your home. That way you can spend more time with him/her every day. 

If you visit your hedgie every couple weeks the bonding process is going to take a lot longer. 

Good luck!


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## FUP10K (Jun 10, 2014)

I don't bathe my ferrets  They don't need it unless if they get into something, like most animals, so... in the two years I've had my first one, he's only had one bath for spilling tea over himself and the other one never had a bath. They've both gotten one flea bath for a treatment, but that's the extent.

As far as the food.... I honestly don't believe that any sort of cooked food is the 'healthiest' option simply because animals don't have kitchens to cook their food in the wild, so I'm really looking to see if anyone has information on any studies or personal experience of specifically using raw. (If not, if anyone has completely kibble-free plans they use) I already have a few high-end cat foods i'm considering if need be, though. 



NewHedgieOwner100 said:


> If you visit your hedgie every couple weeks the bonding process is going to take a lot longer.


How is this so? I would figure that visiting before actually taking them home would let them get used to me more quickly. I'm not sure why it would be opposite?


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## nikki (Aug 28, 2008)

I would keep your hedgehog and your ferrets as far apart as possible, even in a different room would be best. Hedgehogs are prey, ferrets would see them as food and the hedgehog will be stressed being so close to a hunting animal. It would be like keeping a cat and a mouse side by side but even worse because hedgehogs are easily stressed. Stress can cause them to become sick too.


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## Teddi4211 (Apr 30, 2014)

Isn't 38% protein a bit high? I don't know, I was told no more than 30%, but 15% or lower on fat.


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## nikki (Aug 28, 2008)

Most breeders don't let you handle the babies before they are weaned as this can stress the mother and endanger the babies. They are weaned at about 6 weeks of age. 

Protein should be no higher than 35% for hedgehogs, and closer to 30 is better.


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## FUP10K (Jun 10, 2014)

nikki said:


> I would keep your hedgehog and your ferrets as far apart as possible, even in a different room would be best. Hedgehogs are prey, ferrets would see them as food and the hedgehog will be stressed being so close to a hunting animal. It would be like keeping a cat and a mouse side by side but even worse because hedgehogs are easily stressed. Stress can cause them to become sick too.





nikki said:


> Most breeders don't let you handle the babies before they are weaned as this can stress the mother and endanger the babies. They are weaned at about 6 weeks of age.
> 
> Protein should be no higher than 35% for hedgehogs, and closer to 30 is better.


Okay, I wasn't sure about the ferret/hedgehog relationship  It was mainly just a wondering, not a serious consideration.

It's hard to find low protein in a high-quality cat formula though :/ Is there a specific reason why people go for cat food rather than dog? Cats are obligate carnivores and it's rare to find a nice, grain free food that has much more than just meat inside of it. (save for a few veggies and fruits for preservative) Dog food tends to have significantly more vegetables and such.

But, that again begs the question of why a kibble food. For balance? (If so... what's the balance that there needs to be?)


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## nikki (Aug 28, 2008)

Usually people go with high quality low-fat cat food. The only veggies you really need to stay away from in the food is corn and other fillers. Dog food would be fine but its usually to big and to hard for the hedgehog to eat. There really is no information on the exact nutritional requirements for hedgehogs but feeding cat food has been shown to help keep them healthy. Its usually recommended to use more than one type of cat food to help cover any missing nutrients in one food.


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## lilsurfergrlsp (Dec 13, 2013)

FUP10K said:


> Okay, I wasn't sure about the ferret/hedgehog relationship  It was mainly just a wondering, not a serious consideration.
> 
> It's hard to find low protein in a high-quality cat formula though :/ Is there a specific reason why people go for cat food rather than dog? Cats are obligate carnivores and it's rare to find a nice, grain free food that has much more than just meat inside of it. (save for a few veggies and fruits for preservative) Dog food tends to have significantly more vegetables and such.
> 
> But, that again begs the question of why a kibble food. For balance? (If so... what's the balance that there needs to be?)


Cat food is usually preferred over dog food because of its kibble size. You could feed dog food, but you'd have to crush the kibble into smaller pieces. If you're not a fan of kibble food though, and you're interested in feeding a "DIY" diet, I would recommend reading this book (it's free to download):
http://westcoasthedgehogs.com/files/hedgehogbook/PetAfricanHedgehogs2-byKimberlyGoertzen.pdf

The DIY diet starts on page 86.

Also, if you're interested, here's a list of cat foods that most hedgehog owners use:
http://www.hedgehogcentral.com/forums/12-diet-nutrition/23042-recommended-foods-list.html


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## NewHedgieOwner100 (May 31, 2014)

nikki said:


> Protein should be no higher than 35% for hedgehogs, and closer to 30 is better.


Hmm I didn't know this. I always thought the more protein the better. Is 38% too high? I am using the same brand the breeder used.


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## NewHedgieOwner100 (May 31, 2014)

FUP10K said:


> How is this so? I would figure that visiting before actually taking them home would let them get used to me more quickly. I'm not sure why it would be opposite?


Visiting them can help but when you first meet your hedgie it is recommended to bond with them for at least 30 minutes a day so that they will get used too you faster. For example, if you don't bond with them for one day, it will take one day for them to get used too you again. (At least this is what I learned)

If you do want to speed the bonding process up I would take an old piece of your clothing and ask the breeder to put in the cage your hedgie is in. That way it will get accustomed to your scent and won't be as afraid.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

You're not the only one who's been curious and looked into do a raw diet for their hedgehog.  There's several other people on the forum that have already taken the jump into doing a raw/natural diet for their hedgehog. I have a sticky set up here - http://www.hedgehogcentral.com/forums/12-diet-nutrition/23066-raw-home-cooked-diets.html with a list of thread links at the bottom to threads where people are feeding raw and homemade diets for their hedgehogs. I'm not sure any of them have been by to update in a while, but you could try PMing them to see if they respond.

Personally, I'm quite interested in raw/natural diets for animals as well, and plan to attempt a more natural diet with future hedgehogs. Yes, the reason most people stick with kibble still is because we already know it works. The balance of nutrients for both cats and dogs in kibbles seems to work just fine for hedgehogs, so most people feel safer sticking with that. But if you're interested & willing to do the legwork of making sure the diet is balanced, there's nothing wrong with feeding a raw or homemade diet. I will probably start with a commercial raw diet, though I haven't completely decided yet. It'd probably be a bit safer to start with that, IMO, since they're already balanced for dogs & cats, so should be fine with a hedgehog.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

NewHedgieOwner - it's best to stick with around 35% or lower for dry kibble because it's possible that a dry diet high in protein can put more stress on the kidneys since it doesn't offer any extra moisture for helping to process the protein. A lot of things online say that hedgehogs need a "high protein, low fat diet", but most of those were written back when "high protein" in cat food meant 30-40%. These days, high protein cat food is typically 40-60%, which is too high for hedgehogs.


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## CoffeeKat (Jan 15, 2014)

I'm not very good at posting links, but if you check on this forum, I started a thread today on the subject of raw and natural diets and Kelsey replied with some good informarion and links. Check the archives here too for some great threads on this subject, and I would love to hear what you come up with for your hedgehog's diet. Check the thread named What's in our pet food?

(Kelsey was posting her reply while I was typing


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## NewHedgieOwner100 (May 31, 2014)

Lilysmommy said:


> NewHedgieOwner - it's best to stick with around 35% or lower for dry kibble because it's possible that a dry diet high in protein can put more stress on the kidneys since it doesn't offer any extra moisture for helping to process the protein. A lot of things online say that hedgehogs need a "high protein, low fat diet", but most of those were written back when "high protein" in cat food meant 30-40%. These days, high protein cat food is typically 40-60%, which is too high for hedgehogs.


Hmm ok. What would you recommend doing? I bought the big 13 lbs Purina Naturals cat food that the breeder recommended. I was assuming it was ok because she has been breeding hedgies for years, but again, I could be wrong.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

You could see if she'd like to buy it from you, or you could donate it to a shelter. Personally, I'm really not a fan of Purina anyway. Most of their foods have pretty awful ingredients. And to be honest, many vets are not great at food & nutrition. They're not taught a lot about it in school, and they have a tendency to recommend the big-name brands that give them money for recommending them, particularly Science Diet and Royal Canin. I'd suggest looking over this thread to see which ingredients to avoid and look for - http://www.hedgehogcentral.com/foru...3034-beginner-s-guide-hedgehog-nutrition.html and there's some recommended brands in this thread, though it was already linked for the OP - http://www.hedgehogcentral.com/forums/12-diet-nutrition/23042-recommended-foods-list.html

Make sure that you keep some of the old food so that you can do a slow switch to a new food, over at least 2-4 weeks. Fast changes can upset hedgie's stomach or possibly cause a food strike.


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## NewHedgieOwner100 (May 31, 2014)

Lilysmommy said:


> You could see if she'd like to buy it from you, or you could donate it to a shelter. Personally, I'm really not a fan of Purina anyway. Most of their foods have pretty awful ingredients. And to be honest, many vets are not great at food & nutrition. They're not taught a lot about it in school, and they have a tendency to recommend the big-name brands that give them money for recommending them, particularly Science Diet and Royal Canin. I'd suggest looking over this thread to see which ingredients to avoid and look for - http://www.hedgehogcentral.com/foru...3034-beginner-s-guide-hedgehog-nutrition.html and there's some recommended brands in this thread, though it was already linked for the OP - http://www.hedgehogcentral.com/forums/12-diet-nutrition/23042-recommended-foods-list.html
> 
> Make sure that you keep some of the old food so that you can do a slow switch to a new food, over at least 2-4 weeks. Fast changes can upset hedgie's stomach or possibly cause a food strike.


Sorry, I accidentally wrote "vet". What I meant to say was that it was what the "breeder" recommended. 
Could something happen if I just fed her the Purina food? Ugh, spending so much money just to find it's not good!


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## FUP10K (Jun 10, 2014)

I'm still here.... just taking a minute to let the conversation continue lol 

I'm pretty set on DIY diet....now that you've all been so kind as to point me in the right direction n_n So sweet. I'm going to have, again, about 2 months to figure out the best option so I'm sure I'll be posting again on that for when I have a better idea/a set plan of where to start.

If I ultimately decide against a DIY diet... which i doubt, but, I would be planning to go with Wysong branded cat foods  Maybe Archetype for freeze-dried? 
http://wysong.net/
Yay or nay? I know they have amazing food so they may be someone to recommend.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

I doubt it would impact her health long-term. It just has a LOT of iffy ingredients, plus the high protein (which is probably more of an immediate concern healthwise). To be honest, $18 for 13 pounds of food is not that much money at all (not sure if that's what you paid, that's the Amazon price). A good quality cat food can be that much for a 4-6 pound bag. Also, your breeder shouldn't have recommended the bag size at all. They may go through that much food quickly for multiple hedgehogs. That much food can last a hedgehog 6 months or more - and the food's going to be stale by then. For Lily, I usually had a mix of three foods going, totally around 15 pounds. That much would last her around 6 months, but I always had to throw out the last of each of the foods (even though I kept it in the freezer, in gallon freezer bags) because it'd start to get stale and she'd stop eating as much.

Even if you buy a higher quality food that she likes that costs more money, it's still going to last you a couple months. Hedgehogs do not cost much money to provide high quality food for, since they eat so little. Personally, I'd switch her and donate the rest of the food. But the choice is up to you.

FUP10K - Sorry for your thread getting rather sidetracked! That's great that you're going to try out a DIY diet!  If you're interested, I'd love it if you started a thread to update about how your hedgehog does with it, and what different things you add to their diet. And if you don't mind, I could add it to the list of threads on the Raw/Homemade sticky. I'm always looking for more to add so that others have resources. A lot of people that are hesitant at first feel a bit more confident about trying a DIY diet once they see others doing it and can get ideas from them.

Give me a second to check out the website & I'll comment on it!


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## NewHedgieOwner100 (May 31, 2014)

Lilysmommy said:


> I doubt it would impact her health long-term. It just has a LOT of iffy ingredients, plus the high protein (which is probably more of an immediate concern healthwise). To be honest, $18 for 13 pounds of food is not that much money at all (not sure if that's what you paid, that's the Amazon price). A good quality cat food can be that much for a 4-6 pound bag. Also, your breeder shouldn't have recommended the bag size at all. They may go through that much food quickly for multiple hedgehogs. That much food can last a hedgehog 6 months or more - and the food's going to be stale by then. For Lily, I usually had a mix of three foods going, totally around 15 pounds. That much would last her around 6 months, but I always had to throw out the last of each of the foods (even though I kept it in the freezer, in gallon freezer bags) because it'd start to get stale and she'd stop eating as much.
> 
> Even if you buy a higher quality food that she likes that costs more money, it's still going to last you a couple months. Hedgehogs do not cost much money to provide high quality food for, since they eat so little. Personally, I'd switch her and donate the rest of the food. But the choice is up to you.


Ok, I'm glad to know it's not going to impact her health! I probably shouldn't of bought such a big bag of food.... oops! We live and we learn, right? 
I will probably consider switching her in a couple month or so, just so I can get the most of this cat food. How would you recommend switching? What portions of the old food and the new food? Sorry for all the questions! Lol

Sorry that this thread kinda got off the DIY topic!


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## FUP10K (Jun 10, 2014)

I don't mind the derailing at all!!! I was just mentioning it as a reason why I "Disappeared" so to speak.... I was eavesdropping lol.

Newhedgieowner: have you read the http://westcoasthedgehogs.com/files/hedgehogbook/PetAfricanHedgehogs2-byKimberlyGoertzen.pdf book? It's great and has a lot of information on different foods and how to switch.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

NewHedgie - for switching, most people go with week 1 is 1/4 new to 3/4 old, week 2 is 1/2 and 1/2, week 3 is 3/4 new to 1/4 old, etc. If hedgie shows any green in their poop, then you slow the switch even more. 

FUP10K - Wysong does look pretty good! I would definitely go with the Archetype over the dry foods, it looks really good & has good variety so you could find one with the right fat content depending on hedgie's body type (or could mix a couple, which would be nice). If you go with dry food, personally I'd go with either the Geriatrx or Anergen cat foods for the lower protein & fat. Some of the dog foods could be good too, like the Adult one. Would likely just have to crush it up to make sure it's small enough, like what was already mentioned!


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## FUP10K (Jun 10, 2014)

Lilysmommy said:


> FUP10K - Wysong does look pretty good! I would definitely go with the Archetype over the dry foods, it looks really good & has good variety so you could find one with the right fat content depending on hedgie's body type (or could mix a couple, which would be nice).


I think I'd only really go with the Archetype for ease :lol: It's incredibly expensive for what it is.... I usually spend $20 for a whole month's worth of meat for ferret food, for two ferrets @[email protected] (Granted, I buy it in about $60 trips...for 3 months... but still)

I did read of someone who successfully fed Instinct Raw to their hedgie for 9 months with nothing but great health... And honestly that's very surprising since only 5% is any vegetables or fruits!

I would think... maybe 40-50% raw meat (A mixture of chicken, beef, cornish game hen, pork) and then 30% insects, 20% fruits and veggies?


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

Yup, that's one of the threads on here, I know. I can't recall if I noticed before how low Instinct is in veggies...interesting. I think there's one other person I can recall who was also feeding the Instinct raw bites, but they were feeding a variety of other things with it, that included some veggies, I think. I would probably lean more towards your figures. I know the figures listed in Kimberly's book include even more fruits/veggies/carbs, maybe that percentage could even be boosted a little more? Definitely include plenty of insects though, and as large of a variety as you can. Other invertebrates like snails and earthworms would make good additions as well. If I remember right, Fluker's sells canned snails with the shells removed.

Also, I don't have this thread linked on the Raw/Natural sticky yet, but here's another person who's posted an example of her menu for her hedgies - http://www.hedgehogcentral.com/foru...-questions-regarding-diet-protein-values.html Still includes kibble, but has a great variety of other foods included too, which may give you some ideas for arranging the menu and such.


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## FUP10K (Jun 10, 2014)

So.. Then 40% meats, 35% insects, 25% fruits and veggies? o; 
Insects may be hard to get in a high enough quantity. 
Do you know the average oz. of food a hedgie will eat? I can't imagine it's much :lol:


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

That sounds like a good balance to me, though I'm not sure my opinion counts for much. :lol: I can't recall where Kimberly got the chart that she gives in the book, I'll have to check again. That one listed 40% for carbs, from grains, fruits & veggies. I'm not sure whether the difference there would be a huge issue though? I think the main thing would be making sure they're still getting all the right nutrients, as well as enough fiber (which would also come from insect exoskeletons, so that's probably not a huge concern). 

Yeah, insects will probably be the most difficult part of the diet! Mealworms, waxworms, and crickets are the common ones that you can find at most pet stores. Waxworms are pretty high in fat though, so more a treat or for runners that need help keeping weight on. There's more sources online, if you don't mind ordering from websites - various types of roaches, butterworms, phoenix worms, etc. Sometimes places that sell fishing bait have things like earthworms and butterworms. And you can also buy canned insects, which Fluker's offers. They do canned mealworms, crickets, shell-less snails, and grasshoppers. Awhile back, I did some searching on websites that sell insects for human consumption, thinking maybe there'd be a greater variety. I was right, there was...but many of them had flavorings and spices added to them, unfortunately. I never did get around to messaging or contacting anyone to see if it'd be possible to order some of those insects with no flavors added, but that might be another potential resource!

Y'know, I'm not really sure what it would be in ounces. I think you'd probably have to measure in grams, really. If you do some searching, you may find some given estimates & amounts that people have found from weighing how much their hedgehogs eat. I just counted Lily's food most of the time, but when I did measure it, it was about 2 tablespoons that she'd eat. Probably 6-8 grams at the most. So yeah, definitely not much!


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## FUP10K (Jun 10, 2014)

Aaaah I see @[email protected] I'm so used to measuring in oz for ferrets :lol: hedgies must have microscopic tummies omg

Most people have said about as much as you, for the tablespoons, so I'm thinking maybe 3/4 a tablespoon of meat (First, to make sure they'd eat it) then... 3/4 insects, 1/2 fruits and veggies o; 

I'm not sure... I'll think about supplements and everything too :lol: I still have plenty of time before I can even test...so.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

It does vary quite a bit by hedgie, and babies should always get as much as they want to make sure they have plenty of energy for growing, so keep those things in mind as well. You may have to adjust for greater amounts. I know some people have said their hedgies eat up to 4-6 tablespoons in a night, which was mind-boggling to me. :lol: 

Also, another thing to consider - some hedgies are very picky, especially about veggies & such. So you may have to get creative in how you offer the food (mixed, each group separate, etc.) in order to get hedgie to eat what they don't like as much. For example, Lily wasn't a fan of most veggies, but she loved meat so much that if I mixed meat baby food with some veggie baby food, she'd eat just about any combination. Another person was able to get her hedgehog that was snubbing veggies to eat them by cooking the veggies with some meat so they got some of the flavor from the meat. So something like that could help too!


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## sheap (Mar 12, 2012)

I love this thread (it's being bookmarked) because I am also transitioning to a raw diet right now. 

I have always weighed Dmitri's and Nina's food in grams and Dmitri (a 600g boy) always eats about 16-18g of food a night and Nina (a runner at about 300g last weigh in) ate about 5-6g (before she got pregnant, but that's another story). But I have been told that when you feed raw you don't need to feed as much. Can anyone confirm that?

I have started Dmitri on 5g of Primal Pronto (Duck flavor for dogs) just to help transition him to raw, plus I feed insects (10 mealies or crickets) and veggies each night (5-8g of bell pepper and/or cucumber) along with offering 20g of his Blue Wilderness Small Breed Dog kibble (I'm with you, I much prefer dog food to cat food!)

So far he LOVES and I mean LOVES the raw food. It's the first thing he eats at night. And seriously, he NOMS on it. Then he goes for his bugs, THEN the veggies and only then does he eat his kibble.

The only reason I am using the formulated raw diet is because I can't find a supplier of whole-grind food that sells it in smaller quantities than required for dogs....so if you have any hints, I'd love it!!


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

I've read the same regarding raw, but I don't have any experience with raw feeding myself yet (unfortunately...and annoyingly!). From what I've read, since they're not getting many fillers, just what's essential, they don't need as much of it. They also poop less since there's less waste that they're not using.

I'm glad he's already doing so well at eating different things! It might be a good idea to vary his veggies a bit more. Cucumber is mostly water & doesn't offer many nutrients. And other veggies can be high in vitamins & if you feed them constantly, could potentially give them too much of one vitamin. For example, red peppers are high in vitamins A and C. Vitamin A is fat-soluble, which means it gets stored in the body when there's excess. Fat-soluble vitamins are easier to accidentally overdose than water-soluble vitamins, which are usually excreted in urine, etc.

This is a good website to look up nutritional info of vegetables, etc. - http://nutritiondata.self.com/

I can't recall, sheap, did I link you to https://www.mypetcarnivore.com/? If you do find a local place that sells it for dogs, I'm sure you can still order the smallest amount available (such as the 2 lbs that are sold on that site) and freeze the extra. Then you can just thaw out what you need every day, or every couple of days.

You could do a similar thing for veggies - I like the Chop method of preparing veggies for birds, where you run the veggies through a food processor to chop them up small (not to mush, but around the size of a hedgie eye or smaller), mix them all together, then freeze in portions in plastic baggies. Alternatively, you could do the same thing, then freeze in an ice cube tray, then keep the cubes in a freezer bag. I did that with Lily's baby food mixes and it worked quite well. I just microwaved the cubes for 15-20 seconds each night before I gave them to her. For the veggies, it may work better to just let them thaw in the fridge so they don't get too soggy. This is what I hope to do for the veggie part of my future hedgie menu, unless I stick with pureed or baby food form.

Edit: Regarding the "how much do they need" thing, I do have a formula in the handbook I got in my basic wildlife rehab class. Once I get home on Saturday, I can look up that section of the book and see what they say regarding calories & body weight, and give you guys the formula & info. The handbook is VERY useful - it's also available to buy online if anyone's interested in a link. I believe it's $20, but I can't recall for sure. It also includes information on which vitamins are fat-soluble or water-soluble & the problems that show up from a deficiency or overdose.


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## sheap (Mar 12, 2012)

Thanks for the info on bell peppers! I had no idea they could be harmful in large amounts! I am definitely looking around for more veggies (it's oddly the only thing he's picky about!) and I know that these two are mostly water...I'm kinda considering them a transition veggie! I mix different veggies in once in awhile to see if I can trick him into eating them! So far it's a no-go with spinach, peas, carrots, zucchini....any other suggestions? 

The food processor is a great idea! I wonder if I can get the pieces small enough that he can't pick and choose..without them turning to mush, of course. Or maybe the bell pepper will get the juice all over and he won't know the difference. Hedgehogs are many things, but bright is not one of them! :lol:

the other thing I'm worried about, and maybe you have some advice, is a freeze-thaw cycle degrading the meat. I guess I would have to portion it initially, right? That way I can just thaw what I need as I need it? That's one reason I like the Primal Pronto...it's extruded into small pellet-like bits that I can take out just a few and the rest stays frozen. If only it weren't $25 for a 4lb bag, I'd have every flavor in my freezer!


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

Heck, if you think it might make a difference, you could also try pureeing his veggies & mixing them together to see if he'll try things that way. But I can get the pieces of veggies pretty small, the method is meant for picky birds that like to choose their favorite things out of a mix - even if they grab say, a piece of carrot, it's likely to have one or two things stuck to it, & hopefully they end up trying new things that way. You could also try mixing his meat with either the chopped veggies or pureed ones & see if that makes any difference. I never could get Lily to touch whole, fresh veggies. She'd only eat baby food ones (mostly peas & green beans) and all other veggies had to be mixed with meat before she'd touch them. :roll:

Yeah, I would portion the meat individually. Some ways you could do that - either put them in ice cube tray, or you could put them on a cookie sheet or something (perhaps with parchment paper, for easy removal) and freeze them in portions that way, then store in a baggy.


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## Tongue_Flicker (Jun 11, 2013)

Hey brianna welcome aboard!


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