# Will this mix be okay?



## MissIvy (Sep 10, 2011)

So hey again! 

Since I live in The Netherlands, there's not that much really high-quality catfood available. To be honest, I couldn't find any catfood without the corn or other 'bad' stuff in it.

So, I decided just to create a mix of cat AND dog kibble (dogkibble of the smallest size) for the mornings, and fresh fruits,veggies and meats for the night. 
I'm not gonna start immediately with giving my new baby everything, since I know I have to make very little and gradual changes in his food pattern. 
He will be 8 weeks old when he moves in with me, so he'll still be a baby. Concerning that, I decided he can have a little bit more fats and protein for growth, untill he's 6 months old. Is that correct thinking?

The question: what about this mix for his breakfast?

*Hill's Nature's Best Kitten*
_Ingredients (things I think are most relevant, there are no artificial byproducts)_ 
Chickenmeal (30%), turkeymeal (15%), cornglutenmeal, fats of meat, brown rice, cornmeal, fishoil, dried beetroot, flaxseed, kaliumchloride, dehydrated carrots, dehydrated peas, dried & crushed tomatoes, spinachmeal, dried & crushed citrus and grapes.

_Guaranteed Analysis:_
- Protein: 38% 
- Crude fats: 23.8 %
- Crude cellulose: 2 %
- Crude ash: 7.8% 
- Fluid: 5.5%
- Calcium: 1.23%
- Phospheros: 1.04%
- Natrium: 0.47%
- Khalium: 0.85%
- Magnesium: 0.08%

*Eukanuba Puppy Small Breed*
_Ingredients_
Chicken, Chicken By-Product Meal, Corn Meal, Ground Whole Grain Sorghum, Brewers Rice, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of Vitamin E), Chicken Flavor, Dried Beet Pulp, Dried Egg Product, Fish Oil (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of Vitamin E), Brewers Dried Yeast, Potassium Chloride, Salt, Monosodium Phosphate, Choline Chloride, Fructooligosaccharides, Minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Manganese Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Potassium Iodide, Cobalt Carbonate), DL-Methionine, Calcium Carbonate, Vitamins (Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin A Acetate, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Thiamine Mononitrate (source of vitamin B1), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Niacin, Riboflavin Supplement (source of vitamin B2), Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (source of vitamin B6), Inositol, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid), Vitamin E Supplement, Marigold, Beta-Carotene, Rosemary Extract.

_Guaranteed Analysis:_

Crude Protein minimum 32.00 %
Crude Fat minimum	21.00 %
Crude Fiber maximum	4.00 %
Moisture maximum	10.00 %
Vitamin E minimum	140 IU/kg
Docosahexaenoic Acid (DHA) minimum	0.10 %*
Omega-6 Fatty Acids minimum	3.00 %*
Omega-3 Fatty Acids minimum	0.50 %*

And I still have to find a third one (because I want my hedgie to have a choice what he wants for breakfast  ). Any suggestions on the third one, what it should contain and what not? What do you think of the mix of these two products?


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## newfie_nurse (Apr 28, 2011)

I am no expert and I hope one of em weighs in and comments.. but your mix is definately higher in fat that it should be, and a little high in protein as well . I know you are going to supplement your hedgies diet with other foods which is great, and I know your limitations in finding the appropriate cat foods. Theres not alot you can do when resources are limited in your area..

maybe you can order some online? There are many that do ship worldwide or there may be available in an area other than where you live.


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## leaveittoweaver (Sep 25, 2010)

I believe www.petfooddirect.com ships worldwide


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## Mushaboom (Jun 23, 2011)

I'm definitely no expert either, but I noticed one of the last ingredients was grapes. I think I remember seeing grapes listed on the Toxic to Hedgehogs thread, but since it's in such small amounts and actually in a kibble I don't know if it would still be an issue. Perhaps someone else will chime in.


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## Pooki3 (Jun 10, 2011)

grapes are toxic and from what my vet said too much protein might cause kidney stones and that much fat is really unhealthy..theres a thread on here about holistic diets (fruits,veggies,and meats) that would probably work out better for you
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=12297&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=holistic+food


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## MissIvy (Sep 10, 2011)

But can I start the holistic diets right away, even though it's still a toddler?


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## MissIvy (Sep 10, 2011)

Is there seriously no one that can answer my questions? I've been spending months on this forum, but still can't find the right thing...


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## Guest (Sep 14, 2011)

MissIvy said:


> Is there seriously no one that can answer my questions? I've been spending months on this forum, but still can't find the right thing...


We've answered the question as best as we can we apologize we are not from your area and cannot speak of the product however people have recommended sites for good cat foods and the listing is freely available the raw food diet can start but remember it is a risk as figuring out the required or recommended levels of protein and nutrients is difficult this way.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

Do any of the places where you could get cat food near you have websites? If you link them, maybe we can help look for an okay food to feed for a staple. To be honest, though things like corn and by-products aren't great, there's been cases of hedgehogs being fed on something like Meow Mix for their whole lives and they lived long, healthy lives. So something like the Eukanuba Puppy food you have there wouldn't kill him. I agree to avoid the Hill's kitten one though, with the grapes. 

With the holistic diets...Part of the reason no one can answer that question is because hardly anyone has any long-term experience with a holistic diet. Those members that are feeding exclusively a holistic diet (or the hedgehogs are choosing to only eat that, and ignoring kibble) haven't been doing it for long enough to judge long-term effects, or to have tried it on babies. It's up to you if you want to give it a try. It's a bit of a risk, like TWCOGAR said, since it's harder to figure out whether all of the nutrient levels are correct or not. But it's definitely an option, if you think you would like to try it once you have him settled and can start slowly introducing new foods. 

Also, quick question, do you know what he'll already be eating when he comes to you? Is it maybe something you could keep him on for a kibble?


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## MissIvy (Sep 10, 2011)

@ lilysmommy

Thanks for the advice and explanation. It does help a little to know that people still read my posts. xD Anyway, I found some other -holistic- catkibble that seems to be quite okay, especially in comparison to other catfood available here.  :

*Techni-cal Indoor*
*Ingredients:*
Fresh chicken (min 24%), Chicken meat meal (min 18%) (total chicken: min 42%), Rice, Maize, Maize gluten, Naked Oats, Beet pulp (min 3%), Cellulose powder, Fish meal, Chicken fat, Brewers dried yeast, Hydrolyzed chicken protein, Minerals and Vitamins, Yucca extract (min 0.01%), L-Carnitine, Dried Cranberry, Citrus extract, Rosemary Extract.

*Analytical constituents:*

Crude protein 29% 
Crude oils & fats	11.5% 
Crude fibres 5.3% 
Crude ash 5.9% 
Calcium 1.2% 
Phosphorus 0.9% 
Omega-3 0.25% 
Omega-6 2.5% 
Taurine 1,600 mg/kg

*Techni-cal Lamb*
*Ingredients*
Fresh lamb & chicken (min 24% contributing min 10% lamb), Chicken meat meal (min 18%), Rice, Corn, Chicken fat, Corn gluten, Dried whole egg, Fish meal, Hydrolyzed chicken protein, Beet pulp (min 1.5%), Minerals and Vitamins, Brewers dried yeast, Yucca extract (min 0.01%), Rosemary Extract.

*Analytical Contituents:*

Crude protein 32% 
Crude oils & fats	19% 
Crude fibres 2.2% 
Crude ash 6.8% 
Calcium 1.4% 
Phosphorus 0.9% 
Omega-3 0.45% 
Omega-6 4.1% 
Taurine 2,000 mg/kg

These two mixed with the Eukanuba Puppy, would that be a good mix then? It's the best I could find and with the 'breed' the hedgies get a mix of Beaphar & Vitakraft Hedgehog food, along with some fresh fruits and veggies. (not even mealies or crickets). So, I felt like I should do something to rescue the little fella and give him a healthy diet for a happy life. ^.^


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## Hoshi (Sep 8, 2011)

The only problem is that the kibble mix still seems a little high protein. If you're only using it in the morning and plan on feeding "real" food at night, perhaps you should not give them any meats during that time.

Though I'm still figuring out the whole food thing myself, so if someone else has a better idea?


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## Guest (Sep 14, 2011)

Hoshi said:


> The only problem is that the kibble mix still seems a little high protein. If you're only using it in the morning and plan on feeding "real" food at night, perhaps you should not give them any meats during that time.
> 
> Though I'm still figuring out the whole food thing myself, so if someone else has a better idea?


Not sure if you saw the new ones she posted they look fine from what I see they meet the HHC recommendations at least/


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## Hoshi (Sep 8, 2011)

Oh dear... for some reason 25% protein got stuck in my head... :? 

Sorry about that.

No, that does look good.


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

Those two foods look great! I think those with the Eukanuba food would make a great mix for your little guy. Definitely better than the food the breeder's giving. The protein looks great, the only other thing I can think of is, if you notice your hedgie starts getting a bit pudgy after awhile, especially if he's not much of a runner, you might want to take out the Eukanuba food and just use the second two foods. It's got a pretty high fat content, but it shouldn't hurt to use it for awhile, just keep an eye on his weight. It may even not matter, if he's getting the fruits/veggies/etc. at night as well, since that may help to balance it out. I know Lily started losing a bit of weight after she was getting her baby food mix nightly.


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## MissIvy (Sep 10, 2011)

Pff, at last, one of the last days I found the right mix! Now, I hope he likes it, too, so I don't have to find some other stuff.. :? 
Getting so excited! Today I'm gonna pick him up!


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## Lilysmommy (Jan 7, 2009)

YAY!  You'll have to post pictures once you get him settled!


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