# Making a mealworm paste



## DarthLopez (May 25, 2016)

Right so for those who havent seen the other thread my hedgie has been refusing to eat. and so far its probably due tongastro intestinal distress according to the vet. So as i lay in bed thinkg and worrying ive gotten her hooked on mealworms over her kibble now becuase shes not nibbling her kibbling but shes downing mealies like crazy (still very clearly sick though not the normal poops etc...) I got to think meal worm paste. If i make it and apply to her kibble could this work?


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## Yukidama's mama (Apr 4, 2017)

This is what I have to do to get my boy to eat cat kibble. He'll happily gobble it down this way. I add a little bit of boiled water (enough to cover the kibble in a bowl) to the cat kibble then cut up live superworms and add to the water. Let it soak for 15-30 mins and then mash it all together with a spoon until it is a paste consistency. I have to remove the shells of the worms now as it started causing constipation and thin rice size poops but if your hedgie is fine you can leave the worm shells in it... I hope it works for you too! Do you use live mealies? I imagine live or canned would give the cat kibble more flavour than freeze dried ones which aren't really good for everyday feeding anyways. Be warned that I have to do this every night now as he won't touch cat kibble dry (I always put another bowl of dried kibble in his cage overnight and it's always untouched ><). It does take time to do but if it works and means they'll get more a healthy diet then you should try. Also he don't drink much so this is another benefit for adding water to the food. Yuki eats 90 pieces of cat kibble this way and was able to gain weight 

I haven't seen your other post but did the vet check inside her mouth to check for any mouth issues first?


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## DarthLopez (May 25, 2016)

Well she usually eats her kibble its just disconcerting that shes eating only insects when normally she avoids them.

Like i said the vet thinks its just a gastric upset of some sort and she usually just chows on her kibble so im surprised shes eating so many worms and hasnt touched the kibble i only keep the worms around for treats or emergencies like this. 

We used can mealies mostly some freezedried but yeah. The plan is to grind the canned ones in a mortar and pestle and jar it for a time. I can also use this to mix mealies into the food paste if i have to next time to make it more palatable for her. But yeah. This is mostly just about either getting her to kibble healthily again. The medicine is working im sure otherwise she wouldnt be downing rhe worms.

Im not sure if id need to add anything other than worms to make the paste yet though.


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## Yukidama's mama (Apr 4, 2017)

Hmm it's strange why she ate the kibble originally but now doesn't want to touch it and only wants to eat mealies. In my case my boy would only eat rubbish hedgehog food (and only a little anyways). He tried cat kibble and for the first few days he seemed to like it but then he just wouldnt touch it anymore. I saw him eat it a couple times and it always seemed like he struggled to chew the pieces since they were much larger than hedgehog food and they sounded so crunchy I was worried he would chip a tooth! So I don't blame him for not wanting to eat it tbh. I tried crushing them too but he still wouldn't touch it so that's when I tried wetting the dry cat kibble and mixing the superworms (he won't eat the wet mix either unless it has them in it though! ><) and I had great success with it, it was such a relief to see my underweight hedgie finally eat happily and gain so much weight . So in summary I just think my boy is a picky eater but your girl on the other hand seems like there's another issue going on IMO, if she always ate the dry food before and now suddenly stopped. 

Have you always fed the same brand of food? How old is the bag of food? It could be it has gone a bit stale so she won't eat it. I've read other members having success of trying a new bag of food and their hedgie would eat again as normal so maybe try this if you haven't already.

I just read your previous post and realised your hedgie has been on medicine recently. It could be the medicine is decreasing her appetite then. Are you still giving the medicine now? You said the vet thinks she has a gastric upset, why do they think this? Has your hedgehog been having green mucus or did they find something when they tested a stool sample? You could always try giving your girl probiotics (especially useful when they're on antibiotics to rebalance out the good bacteria in their gut). Benebac is a recommended pet brand, just sprinkle a small amount on the food. I think most hogs like the taste of it too (my boy didn't notice it when I recently gave him some in his wet mix to help with green mucus poops).

I think you should try find out why your girl will no longer eat her kibble if it's something she always ate before. Also if you are using a new bag of food, sometimes manufactures change the ingredients so this could be a possible reason why she won't eat it anymore. 

If you did want to try a paste, I think adding a little bit of water to it will help mix it well and then stir the dry kibble into it. Otherwise she might just eat the grounded mealies still. Maybe try the mealies as a paste first and if it doesn't work make the cat kibble a paste too and mix altogether. This way, if your hedgie does have any mouth issues this would make it easier for her to chew if the cat kibble is also a paste consistency. But I'd try my other suggestions first and try figure why she won't eat dry kibble on its own anymore, maybe it will save you time if it is something as simple as an old bag of food gone stale.


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## nikki (Aug 28, 2008)

Have you tried syringing Hills A/D? its a canned food that is high in nutrients and made to be easy to syringe feed. Some pet stores carry it and so do most vets.


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## DarthLopez (May 25, 2016)

Yukidama's mama said:


> Hmm it's strange why she ate the kibble originally but now doesn't want to touch it and only wants to eat mealies. In my case my boy would only eat rubbish hedgehog food (and only a little anyways). He tried cat kibble and for the first few days he seemed to like it but then he just wouldnt touch it anymore. I saw him eat it a couple times and it always seemed like he struggled to chew the pieces since they were much larger than hedgehog food and they sounded so crunchy I was worried he would chip a tooth! So I don't blame him for not wanting to eat it tbh. I tried crushing them too but he still wouldn't touch it so that's when I tried wetting the dry cat kibble and mixing the superworms (he won't eat the wet mix either unless it has them in it though! ><) and I had great success with it, it was such a relief to see my underweight hedgie finally eat happily and gain so much weight . So in summary I just think my boy is a picky eater but your girl on the other hand seems like there's another issue going on IMO, if she always ate the dry food before and now suddenly stopped.


 that's why i took her to the vet. I'm gonna order a new bag and see if maybe that's the cause too but that won't come for a few more days and basically has to wait for my paycheck this week :/



> Have you always fed the same brand of food? How old is the bag of food? It could be it has gone a bit stale so she won't eat it. I've read other members having success of trying a new bag of food and their hedgie would eat again as normal so maybe try this if you haven't already.


we've always used the spikes ultra it's what she's been feed since she was born basically. I got her at 2-3 months old and such so she's pretty much not known anything else.



> I just read your previous post and realised your hedgie has been on medicine recently. It could be the medicine is decreasing her appetite then. Are you still giving the medicine now? You said the vet thinks she has a gastric upset, why do they think this? Has your hedgehog been having green mucus or did they find something when they tested a stool sample? You could always try giving your girl probiotics (especially useful when they're on antibiotics to rebalance out the good bacteria in their gut). Benebac is a recommended pet brand, just sprinkle a small amount on the food. I think most hogs like the taste of it too (my boy didn't notice it when I recently gave him some in his wet mix to help with green mucus poops).


When we went ot the vet they figured it was just gastro intestinal upset basically. it had happened before and produced similar reaction. She started eating to my relief about 4-5 days after I started syringe feeding her and medicating her with flagyl(which is what they gave her again). She wouldn't really eat anything though last time. So i'm happy she's eating at least the worms now rather than the A/D because she doesn't like the AD and she doesn't like syringe feeding. they didn't give us benebac this time. Can that be store bought? But this is about day 7-8 of the problem, almost a week since the vet. and about 4 days since proper regimenting and doses so it is what it is (brief mishap i misheard and misread the vial and gav eher too much for a few days, given that i work with human meds the dose seemed suitably small and didn't raise suspicion until i noticed the bottle didn't seem to be filled correctly to last 2 weeks at the rate i was told to give. But we've been doing the right dose for the past few days (since tuesday I think, She saw the vet last saturday after the holiday when i could confirm she wasn't eating proper for sure.)



> I think you should try find out why your girl will no longer eat her kibble if it's something she always ate before. Also if you are using a new bag of food, sometimes manufactures change the ingredients so this could be a possible reason why she won't eat it anymore.


 Checked with the breeder, her food guy did not change the ingredients nor did she. Could just be an older bag so if she doesn't start kibbling tonight I'll be ordering a new bag once my paycheck comes in on wednesday.



> If you did want to try a paste, I think adding a little bit of water to it will help mix it well and then stir the dry kibble into it. Otherwise she might just eat the grounded mealies still. Maybe try the mealies as a paste first and if it doesn't work make the cat kibble a paste too and mix altogether. This way, if your hedgie does have any mouth issues this would make it easier for her to chew if the cat kibble is also a paste consistency. But I'd try my other suggestions first and try figure why she won't eat dry kibble on its own anymore, maybe it will save you time if it is something as simple as an old bag of food gone stale.


vet didn't find any mouth issues. But saturday/sunday night, i think i might've accidentally hurt her lip T-T She seems fine though. I'd keep using my spikes ultra just because that's what she knows until it was for sure she just didn't want it anymore. She usually eats it to the exclusion of all else.



nikki said:


> Have you tried syringing Hills A/D? its a canned food that is high in nutrients and made to be easy to syringe feed. Some pet stores carry it and so do most vets.


I have an emergency can, since virtually no one responded to my initial post about easier/safer/less stressful ways of syringe feeding when it looked like that was going to be the necessity and the way I have right now that works well enough for both of us really, but only works particularly well for getting medicine into her.(Luckily the facebook community for hedgehog owners i found earlier this year was more responsive, supportive, and generally helpful with just the one question than this forum has been the few times i've tried coming here for help and support or to assuage my concerns etc... etc... for me). She received 5ml Tuesday morning simply because she had not eaten much outside a few freeze-dried crickets and mealies 2 days prior, and nothing monday night, so she received 5ml in the morning and later started eating canned mealies (21 tuesday night, over 26 on wednesday night, and last night i started mixing the whole worms into the kibble she had about 18 or so and maybe nibbled 1 of her kibbles.)

This is being considered as an alternative for syringe feeding. Since she's eating her mealies and doesn't like A/D. My thought process is if her kibble tastes like mealies and she's just bored of the kibble and wants the mealies it will provoke her to eat her kibble. At the very least it will season it up and there will be no major concerns.

If you have suggestions on how to best syringe feed a hedgie that won't stop moving long enough to be wrapped up, hates the A/D, insists on knocking the syringe away if her front paws aren't controlled and doesn't ever ball up unless absolutely terrified (I assume? I still haven't seen her fully ball up in the nearly 2 years i've had her for) and spontaneously startled. That would be helpful though.

Going back to making the mealy paste, You would say add water yukidama's mama? You don't think it would make it too runny?


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## nikki (Aug 28, 2008)

It might be worth getting a few sample bags of cat foods to see if she might be willing to eat one.


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## Yukidama's mama (Apr 4, 2017)

Sorry I've never had to syringe feed my boy before but here is a tutorial post if you haven't already read it:

http://www.hedgehogcentral.com/foru...yringing-tutorial-syringe-feeding-sticky.html

I've always found the forum really helpful, even by just reading through old posts and 'stickies' (posts made by admins with very useful information which are pinned to the top of a forum section). If you don't get a response quick enough Id definitely recommend using both the 'search' function on the tool main bar or click on the 'forum' tab and there's all the main topics split by sections. This syringe feeding post was under the first section 'health-FAQs-important topics'.

Anyways back to your post. Definitely try a new bag then. I've read before that bags can go stale and hedgies refuse to eat from them once they're been opened for 2-3 months. I use four types of kibble(!), I pour a load of each in small air tight containers that I then use daily so I don't need to keep opening the main cat food bags every day, instead the containers get refilled from the bags every two weeks or so, when I've used them up.

Also when I said about ingredients changing, I meant on the food bag it should list the ingredients. Sometimes they change, new things get added or replaced. I'm not that familiar with spikes ultra but it's a hedgehog food right? Not to go off topic but hedgehog foods generally have rubbish ingredients in them and not the best for a hedgehog (they generally container 'filler' ingredients and byproducts), they basically have the same nutritional value as cardboard! ><. As Nikki suggested it might be worth ordering a couple other foods if you can, such as premium cat food and gradually add it to her spike food, since she seems to have gone off it anyways. It's recommended to feed at least a couple foods so that if one does change ingredients and your hedgehog refuses to eat it that they should at least still eat the other food you use and avoid hunger strikes. In the nutrition section of the forum topics, there is a list of recommended cat food brands to try and also a sticky about hedgehog nutrition if you did want to look more into this...

Re the paste, just add a couple teaspoons of water and see how it is. Are the mealies dried or moist? Grind them up first and see if any water is needed... If you do need water to make it like a paste consistency just add little by little . My boy eats his kibble like a paste / mush and even like a soup when I pour too much water in! lol ^.^ 
Have you tried soaking the kibble before to soften it a little and make it easier for your girl to eat? If she doesn't like it just make the mealies into a paste like you wanted to do. You'll need only a little bit of water to do this.

Sorry I'm slightly confused by how many mealies your girl eats. Is she eating 21-26 mealies a night? Are these the freeze dried ones or the canned ones? Is she pooping ok and drinking normally? Does she have any green mucus in her poop?

Re the benebac, you can buy it online. I got mine from Amazon. If you're in America it's really cheap. You can also use human acidophilus. There's more information about both and dosages in the syringe feeding tutorial I linked for you 

Have you tried offering different foods like unseasoned scrambled egg, boiled chicken or even baby food, just to try get her to eat something more substantial than mealies? Also carnivore care is another recommended emergency cat food if she's doesn't like Hills AD. Is she losing weight since her food strike? I would be weighing her every evening and monitor it if it was me (I do this anyways for my boy since he used to be underweight). Hope she gets better soon ♡


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## DarthLopez (May 25, 2016)

Yukidama's mama said:


> Sorry I've never had to syringe feed my boy before but here is a tutorial post if you haven't already read it:
> 
> http://www.hedgehogcentral.com/foru...yringing-tutorial-syringe-feeding-sticky.html
> 
> I've always found the forum really helpful, even by just reading through old posts and 'stickies' (posts made by admins with very useful information which are pinned to the top of a forum section). If you don't get a response quick enough Id definitely recommend using both the 'search' function on the tool main bar or click on the 'forum' tab and there's all the main topics split by sections. This syringe feeding post was under the first section 'health-FAQs-important topics'.


My first thought was to post the question. The following day after no responses I found a thread which had detailed basically the first method by which I tried to syringe feed her. Which works just she seems more uncomfortable and i'm always afraid she's being held too tightly in any case. It's hardly the first time I syringe feed her. Its just an unpleasant experience and given my hedgie and how she is I was hoping for some tips that weren't exactly what i did last time :/ but is what it is. Figured our own way to it and it works better for both of us i think.



> Anyways back to your post. Definitely try a new bag then. I've read before that bags can go stale and hedgies refuse to eat from them once they're been opened for 2-3 months. I use four types of kibble(!), I pour a load of each in small air tight containers that I then use daily so I don't need to keep opening the main cat food bags every day, instead the containers get refilled from the bags every two weeks or so, when I've used them up.
> 
> Also when I said about ingredients changing, I meant on the food bag it should list the ingredients. Sometimes they change, new things get added or replaced. I'm not that familiar with spikes ultra but it's a hedgehog food right? Not to go off topic but hedgehog foods generally have rubbish ingredients in them and not the best for a hedgehog (they generally container 'filler' ingredients and byproducts), they basically have the same nutritional value as cardboard! ><.


The kibble, according to the breeder, is produced by another breeder she knows personally and they coloborate together to ensure the nutritional content is relatively good. I trust it and i've used it with two hedgies so far and this is not their usual state. This one just seems prone to stomach upset every 9-11 months so far (granted it's only the 2nd year for her right now but yeah. happened last year around february and now this year.) I reached out to the breeder and she says it's maintained the same ingredients and the list on the back doesn't look any different. I'm sure like all things it's not the best solution but it is the food she's been feed all her life and I trust the breeder well enough. 


> As Nikki suggested it might be worth ordering a couple other foods if you can, such as premium cat food and gradually add it to her spike food, since she seems to have gone off it anyways. It's recommended to feed at least a couple foods so that if one does change ingredients and your hedgehog refuses to eat it that they should at least still eat the other food you use and avoid hunger strikes. In the nutrition section of the forum topics, there is a list of recommended cat food brands to try and also a sticky about hedgehog nutrition if you did want to look more into this...


I've gone that route before she's not a fan of the cat foods. Might try it again because she's eating the mealies which is odd.



> Re the paste, just add a couple teaspoons of water and see how it is. Are the mealies dried or moist? Grind them up first and see if any water is needed... If you do need water to make it like a paste consistency just add little by little . My boy eats his kibble like a paste / mush and even like a soup when I pour too much water in! lol ^.^
> Have you tried soaking the kibble before to soften it a little and make it easier for your girl to eat? If she doesn't like it just make the mealies into a paste like you wanted to do. You'll need only a little bit of water to do this.
> 
> Sorry I'm slightly confused by how many mealies your girl eats. Is she eating 21-26 mealies a night? Are these the freeze dried ones or the canned ones? Is she pooping ok and drinking normally? Does she have any green mucus in her poop?


They're canned and moist, it's been a combination of me counting the number she eats when i give it her in playtimes and the amount i put in the dish at night. While she's been avoiding her kibble. She's started pooping with better more normal consistency the past few days. So i'm not super concerned and she kibbled a bit last night. my biggest concern is really about making the paste incase I need to "flavor" her kibble basically.



> Re the benebac, you can buy it online. I got mine from Amazon. If you're in America it's really cheap. You can also use human acidophilus. There's more information about both and dosages in the syringe feeding tutorial I linked for you


we've used the benebac before it's just a matter of not knowing where to get it and I hadn't thought of it until you guys mentioned it. It was the one thing the vet dind't send us back with.



> Have you tried offering different foods like unseasoned scrambled egg, boiled chicken or even baby food, just to try get her to eat something more substantial than mealies? Also carnivore care is another recommended emergency cat food if she's doesn't like Hills AD.


Had not seen carnivore care before though. good to know.



> Is she losing weight since her food strike? I would be weighing her every evening and monitor it if it was me (I do this anyways for my boy since he used to be underweight). Hope she gets better soon ♡


She had lost about 20-30 grams since her last vet visit when we trimmed her nails and the first one in november for that. Which alerted me a tad to the problem. Since thanksgiving, when she stopped eating and pooping basically, she's lost another... 10ish she's been keeping pretty consistent since the vet trip a week ago. So i'm not super concerned she's always been a light eater anyway But she's got no unusual behavior, besides the hunger strike last weighed at 369 I think? which was down from a few days ago at 372 idk about tonight because we haven't done anything yet.


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