# Test of wills and I keep loosing! :(



## Roni (Oct 27, 2010)

I am still trying to get Pygmy converted off of the wood chips and onto fleece. It is not going well at all!!!

I have made a forth attempt to switch his bedding, which resulted in him trying to climb his cage. He ran in circles in his litter pan, then took to climbing! So as a concession, I put a handful of woodchips on top of the fleece, in his igloo. He went in and checked it out (by force! LOL) and less than 2 seconds later was back to trying to climb.

Whenever we have attempted the switch he almost seems to be panicing. Pacing, agitated and now the climbing. All this from a hedgehog that normally hides if someone is in the room. I know the drawbacks of wood chips and also the mess factor is a motivation to switch but I can't stand to see him so upset. I've tried the tough "he'll just have to get used to it" stance, but within an hour cave and give in.

Does anyone have any experience with this? I am at a complete loss. Maybe I should give up and just leave him since he seems happy burrowing in his wood chips! How important is the switch if it's making him so agitated?


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## smhufflepuff (Aug 28, 2008)

I think I'd still make the switch, but just do it a lot more slowly... something like this:
1st week - put down the fleece plus his usual amount of woodchips on top of the fleece. Add a corner litter box in a corner and fill it with woodchips. Make sure he has a hidey place (igloo, kleenex box, whatever) and put some strips of fleece in there. 
2nd week - put down the fleece plus 3/4 the normal amount of his woodchips on top of the fleece. Keep the corner litter box full of woodchips and keep the hidey place full of fleece strips.
3rd week - put down the fleece plus 1/2 the normal amount of woodchips on top of the fleece. Keep the corner litter box full of woodchips; hidey place with fleece.
4th week - 1/4 the normal amount of woodchips on top of fleece; litter box full of chips; hidey place with fleece.
5th week - no more woodchips on the fleece; plenty of chips in his litter box, hidey place with fleece.

Maybe stretch things out to make the transitions every other week, instead of changing each week, if needed.

Oh, and does he have a wheel? Sounds like he could do some running to burn off that anxious energy.


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## krbshappy71 (Jul 17, 2009)

I was also wondering about what type of wheel he has. He should be wheeling instead of pacing and climbing, ideally. Can you tell us what brand he is using?

Other thoughts: The fleece, has it been washed with either no detergent, or no-scented detergent? Maybe the smell of the fleece is upsetting him? Try washing the fleece with either no detergent or a non-scented one and see if that helps and NO bounce/fabric softener sheets just in case it is the smell.

Have you tried fleece strips for him to burrow in? Perhaps he wants that burrowing feeling that he gets from wood chips.

I have a boy that was raised in wood chips (and don't know what my other one was raised in) and no issues when I switched him over.


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

What colour of fleece are you using? Have you tried a different colour or pattern. smhufflepuff's time frame for switching is good. I too wonder what type of wheel he has. 

I've had many rescues that switched from shavings or carefresh to fleece and I've never had a problem.


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## silvercat (Oct 24, 2008)

I'm also wondering if there might be a scent on the fleece? try running it through the wash, no detergent, just use vinegar & baking soda, to clean any scents


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## hedgielover (Oct 30, 2008)

smhufflepuff said:


> I think I'd still make the switch, but just do it a lot more slowly... something like this:
> 1st week - put down the fleece plus his usual amount of woodchips on top of the fleece. Add a corner litter box in a corner and fill it with woodchips. Make sure he has a hidey place (igloo, kleenex box, whatever) and put some strips of fleece in there.
> 2nd week - put down the fleece plus 3/4 the normal amount of his woodchips on top of the fleece. Keep the corner litter box full of woodchips and keep the hidey place full of fleece strips.
> 3rd week - put down the fleece plus 1/2 the normal amount of woodchips on top of the fleece. Keep the corner litter box full of woodchips; hidey place with fleece.
> ...


The gradual switch was the first thing I thought of also. Hedgehogs don't tend to like change (I've never heard of one reacting like that though).


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## Roni (Oct 27, 2010)

He has a wheel which he has only just begun to use (after about 2 months with us, so that's a great sign!). He has a large litter pan which goes under his wheel and out about 9" or so from the wheel. We use care fresh in his litter box, which isn't an issue, he is using his litter box and doesn't mind the care fresh. Initially we thought having a different texture in the litter box would help with the litter training which it seems to have. 

The fleece has been washed with unscented soap (not on purpose, that's just what I normally use). The colors have ranged from black with a white paw print patters to a royal blue color with the same pattern. Although the fleece strips are mixed, there are some that are pink. I have somewhat tried the gradual switch by putting a few fleece strips in his igloo on top of the wood chips, but he just moves them out and if there are too many he won't go in his igloo at all. The wood chips on top of the fleece didn't work for him. He likes to dig down and lay on the bare plastic and cover himself in chips. As soon as he moved some chips he was back out of the igloo like it was on fire! Then the pacing and climbing started. I hate to see him so stressed out.


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## Roni (Oct 27, 2010)

I'll try the vinegar & baking soda just incase, although they are new unused fleece washed once with unscented detergent, so I wouldn't think there would be a smell. Maybe unscented detergent isn't as unscented for them? It seems to me that it's more of a texture issue with him. Like he doesn't like the feel of it under him.

Thanks for the replies!


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## silvercat (Oct 24, 2008)

If I remember correctly, unscented actually means "no scent added" so there still might be a scent associated with the chemicals & such in the product. I remember once upon a time using an "unscented" baby oil in a bath. Boy did I have a hedgehog who was freaking out! (I quickly gave her a clean water rinse & have never mixed baby oil & hedgehogs together again, though I like the oil in my own bath, hahah)


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## Roni (Oct 27, 2010)

That may be the case here. I'm running the blankets through the wash as we speak with vinegar & baking soda and including an extra rinse cycle. I'm also really careful not to mix the two boys blankets up (I know with dogs even a wash doesn't get rid of the scent from another dog that only they can smell). Dennis doesn't seem to mind the detergent at all. 

Once done, I will try to put a couple of strips in his house and see if he will leave them there. Fingers crossed! :roll:


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## smhufflepuff (Aug 28, 2008)

With your description of how he likes to burrow down and be against the plastic, I wonder if he's just destined to be a liner-diver, but just doesn't know how. 

While it seems weird to us humans to want to lay down on top of plastic, hedgies seem to like it. Must be all that plastic out in the wild that beckons to them???! Eventually, many of these hedgies figure out how to it... burrowing under wood chips, liners, etc... 

And here's where minor controversy starts. Some humans think: "okay, this is weird, but okay" and let their hedgies sleep where they want (ie, on top of plastic under the liner). Other humans think: "that is not okay"and find ways to prevent their hedgies from going under the liner - gentle persuasion (eg, creating another environment to satisfy their burrowing/digging needs and the hedgies stop liner diving on their own - like a melamine plate that's in their igloo) or setting limits (eg, weighing down the sides of the liner or otherwise making it physically impossible for hedgie to get under). 

I have one under-liner lady. I figure as long as she's warm and clean, that's okay. Silly, but okay. Given that viewpoint, I might just go ahead and show your boy how to get underneath his liner so he can get to his precious plastic. Lift an edge... make a tunnel near the side... whatever... 

Another possibility might be (particularly if you're using fleece remnants that you can just cut to size), just use the fleece on half his floor, then add more fleece over time until it covers the whole floor. 

Glad he has a wheel. What kind is he using?

And good job with the litter box! Hope he keeps it up


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## Roni (Oct 27, 2010)

It's a silent spinner wheel and before 15 people tell me how awful it is... it is attached to the cage, slits are filled with aquarium grade silicone and it's scrubbed daily by me! After paying $35 for it, I wasn't willing to just toss it away because there is something easier to clean. When it wears out I will get something different, but it was what was the only thing I could find suitable at the time. Besides I don't see what the brand of the wheel has to do with the switching chips to fleece issue.

Sorry if that seems like it's a bit of a rant, but I don't want this thread to go off the topic. There are enough threads on how horrible the silent spinner wheels are.

The conversion is actually smaller for him because of the litter pan. It's on the large size, so takes up about 1/3 of his cage. I left it there with the carefresh in it, so only about 2/3 of his cage had fleece. This is why he wouldn't get out of his litter pan. Ideally I would like to get him switched so I can move him to the bottom of the FN2 cage. Then he'll have more room. Right now he is in a large rabbit cage, plastic bottom, wire top. Hoping the detergent free laundry will help, along with doing it gradually.


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## Roni (Oct 27, 2010)

PS: I can learn to live with the mess factor from the chips if I have to. I don't care where he sleeps as long as he's happy and healthy. I feel bad because after our last switch over attempt, he regressed and started pooping in his igloo. He also didn't eat or drink very much for a few days. He's settling back down again now, but I'm beginning to wonder if it's worth it. It seems to be so traumatizing for him (yes I know he is just an animal, but it still seems he's upset to me!)


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## Roni (Oct 27, 2010)

We still haven't had any luck. Pygmy keeps moving the fleece strips out of his igloo. I keep putting them back in, but they only stay there for a few minutes. 

Should I try maybe putting his food bowls on fleece (big enough that he would have to put his front feet on it to eat?). I'm a little concerned about trying this incase he freaks out and won't eat again. 

Then I thought maybe I should remove all bedding and just throw a few stips of fleece in on the plastic. That way since he is used to the plastic and it doesn't bother him, he would have to use the fleece to burrow under or lay all naked in his igloo. That seems a little mean to me though.

I'm also contemplating just ordering the high pan for the FN and moving him and letting him keep his chips. Wish Dennis would just talk to him and explain everything! LOL


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## Puffers315 (Apr 19, 2010)

Curious, if you remove all the bedding and just leave the plastic floor of the cage, does he freak out at all, or is the main issue his house? My guys love to sleep on the plastic, enough that an igloo didn't work for them, they would burrow under the liner. I built them both a house out of steralite storage bins (12 quart). There's fleece stuffed inside but they've moved it around and sleep right on the plastic bottom, while also wrapping the fleece around them in a nest.

If its mainly his igloo that is causing him grief, maybe try the steralite house, though you might try a 6 quart container, 12 is a good size and in a FN is takes up a good deal of space, enough that I'm contemplating replacing my FN with Christmas Tree storage containers to give them more room.

But a few ideas if it is the house, you could build a steralite house but leave a bit of a lip at the bottom, and fill the house itself with some wood bedding and try leaving the rest of the cage on fleece, though it would be a touch messy since the bedding would probably spill out onto the fleece. He might just sleep in it, even with fleece strips just because he does have the plastic floor. Another would be to buy a somewhat low plastic pan, have that filled with bedding and the rest of the cage fleece, and put his igloo in the pan, thus he's got his wood bedding and his igloo, and can burrow down to the plastic of the container.

Otherwise I'd say he's just really stubborn, and since you said you didn't mind dealing with the mess of wood bedding for him, get the high pan for the FN and let him have what he wants.


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## Roni (Oct 27, 2010)

I give up! I'm ordering the deep pan for him :roll: 

The issue is still ongoing. If I put any more than a few strips of fleece inside his house he won't go in it at all. He will not walk on the fleece at all (which is why he stays in his litter pan). He gets agitated, paces and then starts climbing. He seems to be throwing a tantrum that a 2 year old couldn't pull off. Then I give in again and he doesn't eat or leave his house for a couple of days. Trying to ease him into it is not working. I tried the fleece under his bowl (big enough that he has to stand on it to eat) and he just didn't eat for 2 days. Luckily I moved his water so he didn't dehydrate. I give up on the concept and will accept defeat graciously and order the high pan for the FN cage.


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## Xyloart (Dec 6, 2010)

Could he be allergic to fleece? I have a mild allergy to a lot of synthetic fabrics and fleece does bother me. Touching it with my bare hands feels very uncomfortable. If I have to sew something made of fleece I usually wear gloves to work with it.


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