# We need to lose some weight



## TheHedgehogGob (Jul 30, 2009)

Hello! I'm a long time lurker of the forum, though I don't participate as much as I should U.U

Anyway, I'm here because there's a little problem with my boy's (Rorschach) weight: 

In January 2011 he weighted 498gr, then in August he was up in 586gr! My vet told me to change his food for one with less fat, but around here (we're from Mexico) the only one I could find was the Royal Canin Indoors Adult 27, which had less fat then the Purina Indoors I was using before. Now, I'm worried, because even with me monitoring the amount of food and everything, today I weighted him and he was in 640gr!! I really don't know what to do now, this food was the one my vet recommend me so he could lost weight, but he gained instead!  He's very delicate with the foods he eats, he doesn't eat anything else, just that food. 

He goes out in the night to run and everything, but I can't take him out to a playpen because it's winter in here and it's really cold everywhere in the house (except in his cage) so I'm lost about what to do: should I reduce the amount of food again? If so, to how much? he eats about two spoons of food, so I could reduce it to 1 & 1/2 or 1/4, but I don't know if that would work (or if would be a permanent solution or a termporal one)

Any thoughts in this matter? Thank you very much.


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## Christemo (Oct 5, 2011)

What's the fat content of the new food?


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## TheHedgehogGob (Jul 30, 2009)

The Royal Canin INDOOR Adult 27:
In the Guaranteed analysis says that:
Crude Protein (minimum): 27%
Crude Fat (minimum): 12%
Crude Fiber (maximum): 6.2%
Moisture (maximum): 8%
L-Carnitine (minimum): 50 mg/kg

The Calorie Content is: 3703 kilocalories per kilogram or 325 kilocalories per cup (1 coup = 88gr)

Rorschac eats about 30gr (2 spoones more or less). Sometimes less, because he sometimes leaves a little food in his plate.


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## hanhan27 (May 12, 2011)

Just double checking, but is he actually an unhealthy size? Or did the vet just say he weighs too much and that he needs to lose weight?

I know 640 grams sounds kind of heavy, but there are plenty of perfectly healthy 600 gram hedgies out there. It's all about their body type, how they're proportioned, how much exercise they get, etc.

Does he have chub at the tops of his legs (his "thighs")? Any yellowing of the fur in his "armpits"? Does he have problems fully balling up? If yes to these, he is most likely overweight. Posting a picture would be beneficial - you should be sure he is actually overweight before you cut his fat content down.

If he is actually overweight, 12% fat content is still a bit high. If he's still gaining weight with that, you want more like 8-10% fat. You can also try incorporating plain cooked veggies into his diet. (Filling, but low in fat)


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## TheHedgehogGob (Jul 30, 2009)

I don't really know if he could be considered a unhealthy size: he's 2 years and 6 months old and he's around 7 inches (lenght)

He can fully ball up, but he does look a little bit round. He doesn't have any yellowing in his armpits, but I don't think his thighs have chub (at least the back ones doesn't, the front ones I don't know...)
Here's a picture:


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## hanhan27 (May 12, 2011)

Yeah, he is overweight. You should juuust be able to see where his fur on his sides meets his quill line, but his is obvious. Overweight hedgies almost look like they don't have enough quills to cover their backs. Not to mention their heads look itty bitty compared to the rest of their bodies.

I know it might be difficult, but try to find a food with 8-10% fat. If you aren't able to do that, you will probably have to stop free-feeding him. In that case, you'll want to try to figure out about how many kibbles he eats a night (start off putting maybe 100 kibbles in his food bowl - in the morning, count how many are left. Do that for a few nights until you can get an average of how many he eats) and then reduce that number a little bit. If he's eating 80 kibble a night on average, cut that down to maybe 70 kibble a night. Encourage him to use his wheel by putting pieces of kibble on the running surface to motivate him to get up there and go. You can also try hiding kibbles around his cage so he has to look for them. If he isn't terrified of water, put him in the bathtub with an inch or so of warm water and let him run around. Anything you can do to promote exercise, do it!  

You can buy cat food online at petco or petsmart and get it shipped to you (I think!).


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## TheHedgehogGob (Jul 30, 2009)

I'm gonna look for a 8-10% fat food, but I don't think I would find it anywhere (even here in the city there's only one or two mayor stores chains that have imported food) and I don't think my parents are gonna lend me their credit card to buy it online (they're a bit paranoid... maybe more than a little)

I'm gonna try to count the kibbles, to see how many he eats (not tonight, I'm afraid he already started eating -o-) I'll try the kibble in the wheel too, but he's really just likes to go to the bathroom on his wheel, maybe run for an hour or two and then get back in his cube to sleep ¬¬ xD Sadly, he's terrified of water, to the point where he bites me when I'm bathing him, so I'm really leaving the water as a last resource 

I'm also worried that taking away food would cause him to lose weight too fast, my vet warned me against Fat liver disease (something about it being more likely to happen if the hedgehog lost weight to fast) is that true?

PD. Thank you for your fast answers, hanhan27


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## hanhan27 (May 12, 2011)

Hey, no problem!  

If you take a small amount of kibble away -- say he eats about 80 kibble every night... try only give him 75 kibble a night for a week or so and check his weight daily -- he shouldn't suffer health wise because of it. Generally speaking, forcing a lower food intake on our hogs isn't the best route to go, but if you don't have access to a lower fat kibble and he isn't an exerciser, there's not much else you really CAN do. I do strongly recommend that you try to order a lower fat food online through a relative or friend before resorting to the counting-nightly-kibbles method, but if you can't buy the food, you do need to do something about him being overweight or he will most definitely suffer in the long run (arthritis, heart problems, etc). Do what you can, with what you have.  

Take things slowly if you do decide to start rationing his kibble out and do try to weigh him every day. Monitoring his weight daily will be your best bet to safely help him get to a healthy weight.


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## Kalandra (Aug 25, 2008)

Watch the calorie content of the food you feed. I've seen foods with the exact same protein/fat content have very different calorie contents. 

You can also encourage movement by sprinkling his kibble around his cage. Take him out of his cage, and encourage him to climb around on you (under a blanket if you are concerned). Does he use his wheel? If not, does he need a different wheel?

Your best bet for getting him to lose weight is to encourage him to move more.


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## TheHedgehogGob (Jul 30, 2009)

Hanhan27, you're right, I'm gonna weight him everynight for a week, though since he eats around 72 kibbles everynight, I'm reducing it to 67 for a week and let's see how that goes  I'm also going to try my brother, to see if he lends me his credict card ¬¬ (sucks being a student with no income xD)

Thank you for the tips Kalandra! I'm gonna start sprinkling his kibble too, to see if that makes him move more. :3 Owww, I miss him climbing around me, and you're right, under a blanket it's much more warmer, so I think I love the idea! He has a good wheel, solid plataform and all, he's just lazy u.u xD


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## TheHedgehogGob (Jul 30, 2009)

*Re: We need to lose some weight UPDATE*

Hello! I just tought I would post a update on Rorschach's weight:

I reduced the number of kibbles (from 72 to 65) and made him walk 15 minutes around my room chasing a criket or just all over me xD he's still not using his wheel as much as I would like, but I think the walks are working because I weighted him today and he's now in 625gr (with a 2-3 grs error. stupid scale) yay! 

So, in resume:

Rorschach's weight last Friday (6 of january): 640gr 
Rorschach's weight today (14 of january): 625gr
Days: 8 days
Weight lost: 15gr

So, he lost 15gr in 8 days. What do you think? Is that ok? Is that too much? Is that too little? Should I continue like this or should I change something?


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## Hedgehog lover01 (Jan 10, 2012)

Fill the bathtube up an let him swim for a hour it will help


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## Nancy (Aug 22, 2008)

Hedgehog lover01 said:


> Fill the bathtube up an let him swim for a hour it will help


That is cruel. Would you like to be dumped in water above your head and left to swim for an hour?

While some hedgehogs do like the water and like to swim, most do not and should not be forced to. IMO if hedgie is terrified of water, don't even try as it is too stressful on them.

When introducing a hedgehog to swimming it needs to be done slowly and there must be an area where hedgie can easily get out of the water if he wants to. Always be ready to grab hedgie if he starts having difficulties. Also keep track of the water temperature as it can cool down quickly. If it does cool down, remove hedgie from the tub while warming it back up. We've heard of too many scalded hedgehogs caused by running the water when hedgie was still in the tub.


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## chelsea.kang (Dec 2, 2011)

^^^ Agree ^^^

Whenever I take Marvin downstairs he knows its bath time and he goes into run away mode. I fill the sink so he can still stand but he does not enjoy water whatsoever. He spends the entire time trying to escape the sink. I keep careful track of the water temp and heat the bathroom to 78 degrees. He's just not a fan of baths but he is a super annoiter. Not to mention water can dry their skin out... I forgot to add flax seed oil to the bath once, so much dander afterwards.  All in all I avoid baths for as long as I can and instead use a warm damp towel for little touch ups and sometimes a very shallow pan of water to soak poo off of his feet.

One thing you can do in an EMPTY bathtub is cricket hunting. Lots of running after those fast crickets and they are low fat too!


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## hanhan27 (May 12, 2011)

*Re: We need to lose some weight UPDATE*



TheHedgehogGob said:


> Hello! I just tought I would post a update on Rorschach's weight:
> 
> I reduced the number of kibbles (from 72 to 65) and made him walk 15 minutes around my room chasing a criket or just all over me xD he's still not using his wheel as much as I would like, but I think the walks are working because I weighted him today and he's now in 625gr (with a 2-3 grs error. stupid scale) yay!
> 
> ...


Back on topic, lol, it's great that the weight loss efforts are working! Him losing approximately 15 grams in 8 days isn't too much, in my opinion. That's, on average, about 2 grams a day. For the fact that he's such a big boy, it sounds good. Keep in mind that as time passes, his body will adjust to his reduced food intake and the weight loss will taper off. If you weigh him daily and notice a 2-3 day period where his weight remains consistent, you could reduce the kibble count to 60. I forgot to mention that you should do that slowly... Instead of just giving him 60 kibble on a particular night when he had been eating 65 the night before, take 1 or 2 away a day until he's down to the desired number. That will help him adjust better. For example, Thursday he gets 65 kibble but you have noticed his weight loss has tapered off and want to lower the kibble count again. On Friday, give him 64... on Saturday, give him 63... on Sunday, give him 62, etc. I personally wouldn't go any lower than 50 or 55 kibbles a night because it's impossible for us to tell just how hungry our little ones are and I would worry about my hog being uncomfortably hungry.

As he loses more weight, he might show more interest in his wheel. I'm sure it can't be easy running on an exercise wheel to begin with, but add in the overweight factor and it might not be too much fun for him, lol. Also, as his weight drops, there's a good chance that it will be harder for him to shed the grams. (Generally speaking, a 5'5" 130 pound woman would have more trouble losing weight on the same diet/exercise schedule than a 5'5" 200 pound woman.)

Like chelsea.kang said, cricket hunting in an empty bathtub might help him lose some weight.  Keep us updated with your progress! It's great that you're putting so much effort into helping Rorschach's health.


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## TheHedgehogGob (Jul 30, 2009)

Hedgehog lover01: Ehh... no, I don't think so, as Nancy and chelsea.kang said, most hedgehogs hate water and Rorschach is not different: he hates water and bath time with a burning passion that sometimes scares me xD and they are right too: it's a horrible idea to let someone swimming for a hour! Especially if they hate it! :-O poor hedgehog! One hour swimming to survive is a lot even for a human! Please tell me you have never done this to your hedgehog! :S

 Thank you hanhan27. Yes, my sister explained to me that the body will get use to the new food intake. Your recommendation of how to reduce the kibble is great! I'm gonna use it when he stops losing weight, though I was also planning to also add 5 or 10 more minutes to his 15min walks (as his physical condition gets better) 55 kibbles a night sound like a limit for me, but it's too early to say yet.

Yes, his low interest for his wheel might be a consequence of his weight u.u I hope that as he loses it he's gonna start running more again  Well, he chases the crickets in my room's hallway since we don't have a bathtub lol and you're right, it is a great exercise for him 

Of course I would keep you updated! I don't think I can do it daily, but every week I'm gonna post how he's doing (especially if someone in the future needs similar advice) Thank you very much!


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